Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 18 updates in 5 topics

bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Feb 28 11:27AM -0500

<https://imgur.com/a/aMsBA>
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 27 06:12PM -0800

>"I thought you said you had one just like it? "
 
I have, I think a 720 which uses the same mech and chipset. With the lack of information it is a learning tool, iused it to figure out a few things, like using only the record prevent switch and end sensors for the front loading mech. Nifty way they didit actually. Saved components and cost but still works. Wellit did.
 
>"Not hardly. I have a 5000 sq ft shop full of "Shit with wires."
Only the truly deserving get a one way trip to the dumpster. "
 
My yard was 3,500 sq ft. It wasn't all that nice and I abused it. The junk I had would have overloaded the dumpster for years. I had a junk room that got so full the (wood) floor broke through. What did I do ? I put more junk in it. the building wasn't long for this world anyway.
 
But I do not deem high end VCRs worthy of a trip to the dump. Some people still like them, use them, and others fix them.
 
What I need is a beta rewinder. I shit you not. I have an SLHFR60 and HFP100 hifi adapter and ;lots of old tapes, some of them camcorder tapes with memories on them. Same with the VHS.
 
More on it in my reply to Terry.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 27 06:45PM -0800

>"Don't you find watching old tapes on a modern TV painful? "
 
I find new shows and movies much worse. They switch the video so much so fast that you can't see anything. Flashing on the screen - ifit was red and blue you would think you sre getting stopped by the cops. Thoroughly annoying, as if some little kid is working the board. Not to mention effects that almost make you think your TV is malfunctioning. And they can't seem to get the picture size and aspect ratio right on some channels. Plus there is no creativity anymore. Simply unwatchable.
 
>"I've gone down that route, and the picture quality stinks, even with very good equipment. Unless the screen is small, and even then..... "
 
The picture quality was fine for most of my life. On my projo KPR36XBR the display from the Sony SLV920HF had the smallest test I ever saw on a standard NTSC TV. On that set it was sharp and clear. I had aligned the COMB filter to perfection. The convergence was perfect. It was actually better than a direct view. Even though the screen pitch of the lenticular wasn't that fine, each section reproduced all colors in the exact same space, a color CRT can't do that. In the stores they had these things right next to the direct views and they looked as good except for the vertical viewing angle. The horizontal viewing angle was about 170 degrees or something like that. The small text was broken up on a direct view, my projo reproduced it perfectly, and that is without even an SVHS (Y/C) input.
 
The Sony VHS video performance is superb, for standard HQ VHS it is only surpassed by beta. Of course later formats were better, higher frequency video carriers on the tape, less white clipping and compression, and a few other things. With only SVHS it only went through COMB filter instead of 3. Now that I am more used to the Y/C input I am even more sensitive to a poor COMB filter.
 
But the quality is actually fine. I don't even have an HDTV anyway, and don't really want one. I can't see much difference unless it is very large screen anyway. My sister has an HDTV in the upstairs apartment, I can always watch that but I don't see enough difference to make it worth it. Maybe she does because she has better eyesight.
 
I remember fixing VCRs, I did alot of them. On soem I had to call the customer and give them the bad news that fixing theirs would cost almost what a new one would be. Some of them OKed the job, why ?
 
For one they finally learned to work the timer. Those were the days when you could use that, now you have to rent a DVR to effectively record or you are stuck to one channel until you physically go and change it. That would have been nice when there were good programs on. Now it is hard to find anything worth watching. Back then though sometimes there were multiple things on at the same time. With multiple VCRs and raw cable you could do it, and not worry about losing everything in a crash. You had the physical tape out of the machine.
 
It wore out, sometimes the machine would damage them, they had their drawbacks, but for what I want they fit. I also have a turntable that plays 78s. A Dual 1216, a decent quality one. I bet you would have to go at least a mile to find another one who can play a 78. And I can transfer it to the PC and burn it to a CD. I don't really play 78s, but I do play some vinyl once in a while. And on audio forums (fora ?) there are people who have $ 10,000 turntables, soem even more. It does have a certain quality to it, though that might not be so objective. However there is onre thing, the frequency response does not drop like a rock right at 20 KHz, it rolls off smoothly. Some people may be able to hear the difference. In fact I was reading that some people can actually see light wavelengths that others can't. Into the UV or IR or whatever. They might be the people with superior night vision. My buddy is like that. We were walking out in the stix and he had no problem, I was practically blind.
 
My ex-boss could see the numbers on planes in flight. Later though he needed reading glasses. He was a licensed pilot, something I would have loved to do but I was born with bad eyes. I was about to join the air force like my Father and Uncle but found out that I was not likely to ever fly because I needed glasses.
 
Last but not least, most of what I watch was originally recorded in standard NTSC. There is no way to get back the lost quality of that system. There is only one system worse in the world, the old one they used in the USSR. Every other country in the world either has NTSC, and many have something better. Well had, with digital that is all out the window.
 
Everything I own is over 10 years old except my PCs and printer, and they are getting close. And I like it.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 27 06:59PM -0800

>"I can no longer recall the brands they were used in (Akai?), but NEC uPcs in VCRs were problematic. We stocked them. IIRC, the numbers on them had the prefix uPc."
 
Some Sonys IIRC as well. A few others but not every model. There were also TA (Toshiba), LA (Sanyo) and a couple others.
 
They were all power products and subject to failure. Sometimes the PC was discolored near them due to heat. Also STKs in the earlier non-switching power supplies, changed a bunch of those. I don't know if those are Sanken or Sanyo.
 
One bad micro I saw was in an RPTV, a Hitachi. A proprietary part. I ran it down to the shutdown input that came from the HV and current detectors. The whole chip was alright except for the pulldown resistor for that pin. A simple 10K resistor fixed that.
 
With jungle I+CS it was about 50/50. I avoided changing them until everything else was checked and it was usually a cap or high value resistor.
 
I was the one who fixed things the other techs couldn't and sometimes I got them with the jungle already changed. I could change them with zero damage usually, even the fine pin ones, as long as they were through hole. I got them half butcherd with ;lifted pads and they were jumpered in, so I had to check that before even beginning to actually troubleshoot.
 
Then one day it was mentioned that I used more solder wick than the other techs, I replied "Yeah, and I've seen their work". You are not normally supposed to be able to tell a repair has been done. Add to that the fact that they needlessly changed a bunch of ICs because they were not good troubleshooters. Usually when I called it the chip, it was the chip. The others seemed to guess. That's why I got the big bucks. Now I am practically unemployable. But I do what I can, it just takes longer.
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 27 09:20PM -0600

> I also have a turntable that plays 78s. A Dual 1216, a
> decent quality one. I bet you would have to go at least
> a mile to find another one who can play a 78.
 
Easy enough, I got a Technics SL-2000 all it took was a
simple change to the direct drive feed back. Instant 78
RPM, then a Shure M78 cartridge.
 
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 27 09:24PM -0600

> You are not normally supposed to be able to tell a repair
> has been done.
 
The only way you can tell I've been "in" something
is the date code on the part is newer.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 27 11:25PM -0800

On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 10:21:04 PM UTC-5, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> Jeff-1.0
> WA6FWi
> http:foxsmercantile.com
 
Of course your average Joe can't do that. I looked at the print and it doesn't look like it's quartz locked. But then that is not required. Looks like a resistor change and you were in business.
 
With cartridges like that I like to get another headshell. It is much easier to change. Also, I see it uses the screwing in and out counterweight method of applying stylus pressure. That means you can weight the headshell to get the proper 78 tracking force, which I believe is higher. The anti skate probably isn't calibrated for this anyway, and it might not even need adjusting. I assume you wired it for mono right there to nip some of those ticks and pops in the bud.
 
I can't really weight the headshell in the Dual because the tonearm is totally statically balanced and the stylus pressure is applied by a calibrated spring. Sure I could do it but lose that balance. Probably not a big thing but it is cool that when setup properly it will play up on its side. It would play upside down except for minor details, like the record falling off. And I have seen alot of them without the E ring or whatever holds the platter on.
 
What you did, it will wear out the motor faster, but not bad. It will probably have to work a bit harder but only during startup.
 
Pretty cool anyway, still not many people can play 78s.
 
Have you heard about them picking up the material on 78s optically with a LASER ? When I read about that I thought it would be a waste.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 27 11:49PM -0800

>"The only way you can tell I've been "in" something
is the date code on the part is newer. "
 
Yup, I clean the PC board. I try to get the same amount of solder on all the pins of an IC. At Electrasound they had us clean the board with Qdope thinner which is toluene. I usually use acetone. And I do it after desoldering and before soldering. The flux won't be burnt so it is not conductive and provides just a wee bit of insulation.
 
One thing I do my way regardless of hoe the manufacturer did it is that I apply the heat sink compound in a daub or bead and when mounted and tightened let the pressure squeeze it out. This prevents air pockets which could occur if you spread it out first. Apparently it is cheaper for the manufacturers in some cases to spread it out, and you can tell it was done by a machine, because if anyone, they should know this.
 
There are a few other things I do that enhance reliability here and there. Or did actually. At Electrasound which was authorized for just about anything, even GM car computers and radios, they said "Do you want to take their name off of it and put yours on ?".
 
In some cases - yes. If I have to fix it if it breaks again I will do whatever I deem necessary to prevent that callback. The customer will blame me no matter how bad of a piece of shit they built.
 
And you can't tell them shit. Like different problems. I fix a convergence problem then it has a totally different problem and it is my fault. I try, "If I put brakes on your car and the radiator goes, do I have to change that for free ?". Falls on deaf ears. Ignorant ears actually. Like if i fix the right channel in an map and the left channel goes, that's me ? Bullshit.
 
Stupid people wrecked that business. They told me a long time ago that you get enough money out of them the first time to cover such things. I didn't like that but over the years I learned that's the only way to really keep good customer relations. Just fix the damn thing.
 
And then when it comes to the complaint, "It was working fine and just went out". You get it alive and find out it has a weak CRT, convergence issues, noisy digital board, needs caps all over the place with retrace lines. Working fine eh ?
 
I am glad to be out of it. I argued with the boss, a customer was tired of waiting, we had ordered parts. Under Ohio law there are some strict guideline about estimates, but still, once the customer OKs the estimate that is a contract. So I said "OK, tell them to pay the bill and they can have it unfixed". Hey, we ordered expensive parts for that thing and now they are going to sit on the shelf ? I would even let them come and pick up the parts when they come in. But they CAN'T take it to a bunch of shops that might be hacks and expect the estimate to hold. So it is back to that. If nothing happened the price is still good, if something happened then we'll see.
 
I was sick of getting fucked up the ass without lube.
 
One time we lost a TV. (not my shop, I worked there) It was not economically fixable so it wasn't worth much but they sued for $ 800. The thing MIGHT be worth that in like new condition. Well we found the set. They said OK and the boss and them agreed to just forget about court. So he didn't go, but this prick did and got a default judgement.
 
Towards the end of my days owning a shop I got to the point where I would not work on anything I hadn't sold. That did not cause me to get out of business, I got partners because we had the space and wanted to go into appliances. These kids wee not old enough. Quite frankly neither was I. If I knew then what I know now I would have never let them into the business. Maybe hire them and they could work for me, but that is it. No more partners ever again.
 
Enough of my rambling. I seem to have hijacked my own thread. LOL
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Feb 28 07:14AM -0800

> >"The only way you can tell I've been "in" something
> is the date code on the part is newer. "
 
> Yup, I clean the PC board. I try to get the same amount of solder on all the pins of an IC. At Electrasound they had us clean the board with Qdope thinner which is toluene. I usually use acetone. And I do it after desoldering and before soldering. The flux won't be burnt so it is not conductive and provides just a wee bit of insulation.
 
I used to buy a lot of Flux-Off when it first came out, then other non-freon based cleaners as they were introduced to clean any pc solder work (looks nice and it may turn up an unintentional adjacently soldered land). Nowadays I use acetone and a fiber brush. Much cheaper.
 
 
> One thing I do my way regardless of hoe the manufacturer did it is that I apply the heat sink compound in a daub or bead and when mounted and tightened let the pressure squeeze it out. This prevents air pockets which could occur if you spread it out first.
 
On transistors and small ICs, I put a dot on the die area and just screw it (or the heatsink) down. But I've found on very large ICs (like the STK convergence outputs), there is no way to tighten the mounting screws tight enough to squeeze most of the compound out. On large flat ICs, I carefully put a very thin schmear on the IC and tightened it just snug. After soldering the pins, I'd give it another quarter turn as the compound relaxed. After test running a couple of hours, I'd give it a last torque when hot to squeeze the rest out.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 28 08:23AM -0800

>"But I've found on very large ICs..."
 
On STK type ICs if they screw down I run a bead between the screw holes. If they clamp down I put the bead in the middle across most of it and squeeze the shit out of it until it starts oozing out of the edges. At that point I am careful not to lift it off the heatsink. Sliding it around helps sometimes if it is large and you heatsink compound is thick, but not so far that it can introduce air in there.
 
And shit is the word, we used to call it bird shit.
 
It also makes a good insulator for CRT anode caps, and it never dries. You can usually get it wet and it won't arc if you use it. On projo TVs they are usually siliconed to the glass and need to be replaced once you take them off.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 27 09:17AM -0800

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 08:03:00 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
(...)
 
One more idea.
Buy or make a tapered hole gauge:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=taper+hole+gauge&tbm=isch>
It would need to be made for the purpose to prevent bottoming out on
the connector. I have a few that I made for go/no-go inspection
gauges by grinding a steel rule blank and etching marks with ferric
chloride.
 
 
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 27 09:29AM -0800

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 20:06:20 -0500, Phil Hobbs
>Chinese ones are good for scribing circles on copper or aluminum and
>other such jobs that might hurt the good Japanese ones. ;)
>Phil Hobbs
 
Are you sure that your Mitutoyo calipers are not a counterfeit?
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mitutoyo+caliper+fake>
I gambled and bought a Mitutoyo Digimatic 500-196-20 for $35. It was
a fake. After cleaning out the shavings from the guts, removing the
burrs, and squaring the jaws so that they were parallel, I did
something that blew up the electronics. Sorry, no photos.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
"~misfit~" <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com>: Feb 20 04:40PM +1300


> get a piece of foam and make an external intake filter
 
> much easier to clean an external filter
 
> m
 
I thought of that but the air enters in multiple places so that ancilliary
hardware gets airflow. Short of sitting it on a full-sized pad of fine-pored
open-cell foam that wraps up the front and sides (and supporting that above
the desk on a grating-type thing) it's not really an option.
 
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
 
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
Reinhard Zwirner <reinhard.zwirner@t-online.de>: Feb 20 12:06AM +0100

KenO schrieb:
 
[...]
> John and Reinhard do you have any references for your recommendations?
 
Own experience (with alkaline battery corrosion) a few hours ago :-(
<sigh> ... I have to admit though that my experience is just with the
battery contacts and not with PCB corrosion.
 
HTH
 
Reinhard
oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 19 06:56PM -0600

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 09:56:55 -0800, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:
 
>--
>(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
> John's Jukes Ltd.
 
While reading this thread, several questions keep coming up.
 
First, why cant the battery makers design batteries that cant leak? I
suppose cost is the main reason, but it would seem that there could be a
coating of something like silicone rubber or some sort of plastic that
could contain any leakage inside the battery's container.
 
Secondly, I often read on instructions "Do not mix battery types".
Meaning dont use both carbon-zinc and alkaline batteries together. I
have often questioned the reasoning for that. ??? I am aware that
Carbon/zinc batteries produce 1.5V and Alkaline produce 1.2V, so that
could be an issue with some electronics, but would probably not matter
in a flashlight.
 
I do sort of wonder if mixing battery types would cause corrosion and
leakage between the two dissimilar batteries, the same way connecting
copper plumbing pipes to a galv steel pipe does. I've seen the
dielectric corrosion occur mostly at the joint between the different
pipe materials, which is the first place for a leak to occur. (They do
make dielectric unions to isolate the metals),
 
Then the thought also occurs, what wouyld happen if both types of
batteries began to leak at the same time. Would one leaking chemical
neutralize the other, or would the two chemicals react and cause a
reaction, which may produce dangerous fumes, or create heat, which could
result in a fire? (I never studied chemistry, so I really dont know).
 
Lastly, Has anyone ever come up with a "Battery Pan", meaning an
enclosure around the battery compartment that would keep leakage
confined to ONLY the battery compartment? If not, why not?
In an ideal world, the battery compartment for all electronics would be
removable and replacable, with a universal battery holder (for each type
of battery). This would also be leak proof. I'm sure this could be done,
but once again, we're back to cost. And we live in a disposible world,
so I dont forsee this ever happening.
oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 19 07:13PM -0600

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:03:30 -0800, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:
 
>since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
>milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling
>provided by our city (Vancouver, BC) gave us a new home for them.
 
If you trash them, do they emit some sort of dangerous substance? I
would prefer to recycle stuff like that, but I've never seen any place
that takes small batteries like that. In my area. (Yes, they do recycle
car batteries though).
oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 19 07:07PM -0600

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 10:45:21 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
 
>I've found from dealing with commercial walkie-talkie batteries, that
>if I leave the packs totally discharged for more than a few weeks, the
>batteries will leak. The good news is that this rarely happens.
 
I have also had some NiCd batteries leak. But that was after years of
non-use. In fact I had some brand new ones (still in their package),
that got misplaced and years later I found them and they were corroded
inside the package. The corrtosion was confined to the package so
nothing aside from the batteries was damaged, and I just tossed them in
the trash.
 
QUESTION: What are those coin cells? (like the ones used in computers
for the system clock). Has anyone ever seen them leak? I ask because I
have several old computers that have been sitting around un-used for
years, and I never removed them cells.
oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 19 07:19PM -0600

On Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:03:30 -0800, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:
 
>I've had 100's of NiCad/NiCd batteries leak on our pinball game boards
>since the 1970s. I stored these leakers for many years in a couple of
>milk crates (didn't want to simply toss in garbage) until the recycling
 
Just curious. It sounds like you repair pinball machines. Aside from
playing them when I was a kid, I know little about them. But I did once
see one taken apart, and it appeared to be little more than a
complicated bunch of relays and lights. And they operated from a wall
outlet. I kind of think there was a power transformer inside, so I
assume those relays and lights were low voltage. (probably 6 or 12V).
 
So, why are there batteries inside of them?
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 23 updates in 6 topics

Reinhard Zwirner <reinhard.zwirner@t-online.de>: Feb 19 03:23PM +0100

John Robertson schrieb:
> On 2018/02/17 12:06 PM, Reinhard Zwirner wrote:
 
[...]
 
> Actually the EverReady battery engineer I spoke to back in the late
> 80s recommended white vinegar:water with a 50:50 ratio, not pure or
> concentrated white vinegar.
 
My experience: concentrated white vinegar achieves best results. But
YMMV ...
 
[...]
> So be sure to identify the type of battery before attempting
> corrective measures.
 
FACK!
 
Best regards
 
Reinhard
"~misfit~" <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com>: Feb 19 04:41PM +1300

Once upon a time on usenet Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> the area from the outside. The only way to get the crud out is to
> tear it apart.
> http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/repair/HP%20Envy%20m6%20clogged%20fan/slides/clogged_fan.html
 
The HP envy that I have likewise must be stripped down to where the top and
bottom shells are apart to clean the fan. This is what the fins looked like
when I finally got there:
http://test.internet-webmaster.de/upload/1519009591.jpg
I was fully intending to cut a hole in the bottom case (and make a hinged
door with tape) so I could access the fan / fins for the frequent cleaning
it will require but the fan lifts out *upwards* and is half under the
keyboard.
 
(In that picture the heatpipe that you can see is the one from the GPU
that's already been past a smaller set of fins [out-of-shot to the right].
Behind that are the two heatpies that come directly from the 3GHz quad core
i7 CPUs heat collector.)
 
> The bottom cover comes off exposing the entire heat pipe assembly,
> which is then easily cleaned. Too bad Dell (or Foxcom) designed it
> into a crappy machine (Inspiron 1525) with miserable BGA soldering.
 
I've not seen setups like that on recent machines. IMO manufacturers are
using 'heatsink clog' combined with difficulty of disassembly / reassembly
(with fragile plastic clips and ribbon cables) as a form of built-in
obsolescence. After all CPUs and SSDs aren't becoming obsolete /
underpowered as quickly as they once did...
 
> More later. Gotta run.
 
Cheers,
--
Shaun.
 
"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)
mike <ham789@netzero.net>: Feb 26 10:59AM -0800


>> There are so many variations of them too.
 
>> Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
> I don't know how you'd measure after it went through a crimp-tool.
 
They make gauges, but you don't want to know how much they cost.
 
The hobby stores sell short lengths of brass tubing that are
sized to nest. Buy a foot-long section of each of the smaller
sizes.
They make excellent gauges for measuring plugs/sockets.
IN a pinch, two brass sections and some epoxy will make
any size plug you want.
tabbypurr@gmail.com: Feb 26 11:21AM -0800

On Monday, 26 February 2018 14:00:58 UTC, Phil Hobbs wrote:
 
> Sharp calipers are okay for both.
 
> Cheers
 
> Phil Hobbs
 
calipers are good if the points are relatively sharp and they line up, neither was the case for the device linked to, nor is for most other cheapie vernier calipers.
 
 
NT
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 26 02:45PM -0600

> calipers are good if the points are relatively sharp and they
> line up, neither was the case for the device linked to, nor
> is for most other cheapie vernier calipers.
 
 
Sorry to hear you can't tell the difference between crap tools
and ones that work.
Or that you can't even get good tools to work.
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
tabbypurr@gmail.com: Feb 26 02:17PM -0800

On Monday, 26 February 2018 20:45:51 UTC, Jeffrey Angus wrote:
 
> Sorry to hear you can't tell the difference between crap tools
> and ones that work.
> Or that you can't even get good tools to work.
 
sorry to hear you like to be childish
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 26 04:27PM -0600

>> and ones that work.
>> Or that you can't even get good tools to work.
 
> sorry to hear you like to be childish
 
Sorry, I don't believe being accurate is childish.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Feb 26 08:06PM -0500


> calipers are good if the points are relatively sharp and they line
> up, neither was the case for the device linked to, nor is for most
> other cheapie vernier calipers.
 
 
I have a couple of Mitutoyo ones that work great and weren't expensive.
Chinese ones are good for scribing circles on copper or aluminum and
other such jobs that might hurt the good Japanese ones. ;)
 
Cheers
 
Phil Hobbs
 
 
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
 
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 26 09:11PM -0600

On 2/26/18 7:06 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> other such jobs that might hurt the good Japanese ones. ;)
 
> Cheers
 
> Phil Hobbs
 
My vernier calipers are Mitutoyo.
My Dial calipers are Starret.
 
I have a couple of the absolutey cheap plastic ones.
Those are for telling the difference between English and Metric
hardware in the "oh boy" bucket.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Feb 26 07:51PM -0800

On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 11:26:11 PM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:
 
> > > Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
> > I don't know how you'd measure after it went through a crimp-tool.
 
> ** Huh ??
 
When you hook a coax connector to coax cable, you crimp it with a crimping device so it won't fall off of the coax cable.
(at least I did)
 
As with every connector, if you crimp it at one end, its inevitably going to change measurement at the other end (though probably not significantly).
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Feb 26 11:21PM -0500

In article <6597a1c9-c146-4e63-9596-92f6648b75a7@googlegroups.com>,
bruce2bowser@gmail.com says...
 
> When you hook a coax connector to coax cable, you crimp it with a crimping device so it won't fall off of the coax cable.
> (at least I did)
 
> As with every connector, if you crimp it at one end, its inevitably going to change measurement at the other end (though probably not significantly).
 
I think youall are mixing coax power connectors that are used on many
wall cubes to power the electronic devices and the coax connectors like
used on the antenna cable called coax, such as RG-8, RG-6.
 
The mating areas of the coax power connector are not crimped or any
other thing to change the mating dementions.
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 26 10:25PM -0600


> As with every connector, if you crimp it at one end, its inevitably
> going to change measurement at the other end (though probably not
> significantly).
 
You're thinking of RF coaxial connectors.
Aside from the fact the don't change at the mating side of the
connector.
 
Almost coaxial power connectors have solder terminals on the wire side
and they don't change shape either at the connection/interface side.
 
The center terminal may drift in position if you overheat the connect
during assembly/soldering.
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 26 08:03AM -0800

>pins inside are near impossible to measure.
 
>There are so many variations of them too.
 
>Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
Measure the OD with vernier, dial, or digital calipers.
 
For the ID, find a matching plug, and measure the OD of the mating
center pin. That's also the ID of the receptacle. If the receptacle
has a center pin, just measure its OD with the calipers.
 
Round off your measurements to agree with a list of typical connector
sizes.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector#Listing_of_DC_coaxial_connectors>
If your measurements do not match anything in the tables, you did
something wrong. Try again.
 
Drivel: I have to deal with a rediculous variety of laptop charger
connectors:
<http://www.ezbuybatteries.com/images/ac-adapter-connector.jpg>
Standards are a good thing. Every company should have some.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Feb 27 02:53AM -0800

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 11:21:42 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> used on the antenna cable called coax, such as RG-8, RG-6.
 
> The mating areas of the coax power connector are not crimped or any
> other thing to change the mating dementions.
 
Oh. I guess we learn something new every day?
"Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien1@virginmedia.com>: Feb 26 09:26PM

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:p6rppq$tgf$1@dont-email.me...
 
>> Peter Wieck
>> Melrose Park, PA
 
> I'll bear that in mind, if I have to go inside.
 
So how old is the battery you haven't gone inside to replace?
 
There's a reset in there by shorting 2 test points - you usually have to do
that after replacing the battery.
 
Can't hurt to try that, and its a good excuse to put a new battery in
anyway.
 
Lithium coin cell shelf life is somewhere in the direction of 10yrs, but
mine uses the oddball CR1620, so who knows how long its been hanging on the
display rack.
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Feb 27 08:26AM

On 26/02/2018 21:26, Ian Field wrote:
 
> Lithium coin cell shelf life is somewhere in the direction of 10yrs, but
> mine uses the oddball CR1620, so who knows how long its been hanging on
> the display rack.
 
I'll probably go in there later this week.
At the moment I'm checking it runs normal non-radio control for a few
days. Set it to London time yesterday, and did not engage RC!, at some
point it decided to move its time zone to New York time so 5 hours
behind. Pressing button C, brought it back to UK time, currently still
the "normal" slightly wavering correct UK time having passed thr a very
cold night
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 26 10:22AM -0800

>"Yeah. A dumpster comes to mind. "
 
I have many reasons to not toss this. Namely old tapes. It is about like new save for this one issue.
 
If you are the type who just throws shit out you are part of the problem. You can at least give it away on Craigslist or Freecycle, and on the latter someone might trade you something for it.
 
Our landfills are filling up at an alarming rate, and tons of money going to China et al to build everything for us.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 26 10:33AM -0800

>"You were lucky. I'm still throwing out all sorts of worthless electronic parts from VCR days. "
 
I have seen motor drive ICs go bad, after all they are a power output. End and reel sensors as well. Never a microprocessor. I suspect something in the system control circuit, but the IC last, after all other relevant things are checked.
 
I have only seen one SMPS transformer bad. It was putting out too much voltage and would not achieve regulation. I figure its resonance was high, inductance low possibly due to a cracked core. I had that once in a TV which produced too much HV and a narrow raster. the pulses on the collector of the HOT/LOPT transistor.
 
The last time I saw alot of bad non-power ICs was in Sylvania Alpha tuners and the old Magnavox "digital" tuners which were not PLL, just voltage synthesis.
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 26 02:41PM -0600

>> "Yeah. A dumpster comes to mind."
 
> I have many reasons to not toss this. Namely old tapes.
 
I thought you said you had one just like it?
 
> If you are the type who just throws shit out you are part of
> the problem.
 
Not hardly. I have a 5000 sq ft shop full of "Shit with wires."
Only the truly deserving get a one way trip to the dumpster.
 
 
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Feb 26 01:44PM -0800

Don't you find watching old tapes on a modern TV painful?
 
I've gone down that route, and the picture quality stinks, even with very good equipment. Unless the screen is small, and even then.....
 
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Feb 26 07:16PM -0800

> >"You were lucky. I'm still throwing out all sorts of worthless electronic parts from VCR days. "
 
> I have seen motor drive ICs go bad, after all they are a power output. End and reel sensors as well. Never a microprocessor. I suspect something in the system control circuit, but the IC last, after all other relevant things are checked.
 
I can no longer recall the brands they were used in (Akai?), but NEC uPcs in VCRs were problematic. We stocked them. IIRC, the numbers on them had the prefix uPc.
makolber@yahoo.com: Feb 26 12:29PM -0800


> A differential amp, to get rid of a ground loop.
 
> Or feed both devices from the same minus 12v point.
 
> Or both.
 
or an audio transformer to break the ground loop
makolber@yahoo.com: Feb 26 12:31PM -0800


> A differential amp, to get rid of a ground loop.
 
> Or feed both devices from the same minus 12v point.
 
> Or both.
 
or see if you can find a 12 to 19V ISOLATED power supply.
 
Isolated means the input and output grounds are not connected, This will also break the ground loop.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 4 updates in 1 topic

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Feb 25 06:52PM -0800

> pins inside are near impossible to measure.
 
> There are so many variations of them too.
 
> Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
I don't know how you'd measure after it went through a crimp-tool.
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 25 08:26PM -0800

bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
 
----------------------------
 
> > There are so many variations of them too.
 
> > Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
> I don't know how you'd measure after it went through a crimp-tool.
 
 
** Huh ??
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector
 
 
I've always called them "DC plugs" so folk know what I am talking about.
 
 
 
.... Phil
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Feb 26 09:00AM -0500


> outer dia: micrometer, drill bits, nails
> inner dia: drill bits, small nails/pins,
 
> NT
 
Sharp calipers are okay for both.
 
Cheers
 
Phil Hobbs
 
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
 
http://electrooptical.net
https://hobbs-eo.com
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 26 08:03AM -0800

>pins inside are near impossible to measure.
 
>There are so many variations of them too.
 
>Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
Measure the OD with vernier, dial, or digital calipers.
 
For the ID, find a matching plug, and measure the OD of the mating
center pin. That's also the ID of the receptacle. If the receptacle
has a center pin, just measure its OD with the calipers.
 
Round off your measurements to agree with a list of typical connector
sizes.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector#Listing_of_DC_coaxial_connectors>
If your measurements do not match anything in the tables, you did
something wrong. Try again.
 
Drivel: I have to deal with a rediculous variety of laptop charger
connectors:
<http://www.ezbuybatteries.com/images/ac-adapter-connector.jpg>
Standards are a good thing. Every company should have some.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 22 updates in 8 topics

Ralph Phillips <ralphp@philent.biz>: Feb 24 02:32PM -0600

On 2/23/2018 9:22 AM, JBI wrote:
> is coming from the inverter, so how would I negate it? I've tried about
> 5 snap closed ferrite cores around the power cable going into the laptop
> but they haven't helped. Thanks.
 
Use a 12V supply for your laptop?
 
For my Dell Lattitude D630, I can use one like this:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Car-Air-Charger-for-90W-Dell-Laptop-D09RM/262961901405
 
RwP
gregz <zekor@comcast.net>: Feb 25 09:32AM


> A differential amp, to get rid of a ground loop.
 
> Or feed both devices from the same minus 12v point.
 
> Or both.
 
I don't know the problem, but a transformer isolator may help or work.
 
Greg
Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid>: Feb 25 02:36PM

On 23/02/18 15:22, JBI wrote:
> is coming from the inverter, so how would I negate it?  I've tried about
> 5 snap closed ferrite cores around the power cable going into the laptop
> but they haven't helped.  Thanks.
 
Has the laptop & car audio got bluetooth?
 
--
Adrian C
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 24 11:22AM -0600

> I guess I am just losing it.
 
We've noticed.
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 24 03:26PM -0800

>"We've noticed. "
 
Hardy har har. Got any ideas on this VCR?
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 25 03:26AM -0600

>> "We've noticed."
 
> Hardy har har. Got any ideas on this VCR?
 
Yeah. A dumpster comes to mind.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Feb 25 04:46AM -0800

On Saturday, February 24, 2018 at 8:26:44 AM UTC-5, N_Cook wrote:
> another a large BGA chip problem that needed a push.
> Are there indexing marks/arrows etc in the mechanism , in case its
> jumped a tooth?
 
You were lucky. I'm still throwing out all sorts of worthless electronic parts from VCR days. Capstan drive ICs, reel end sensors, smps specific parts, system control parts etc. But we were doing a minimum of 50 per week including those from two pawn shops and several other dealers who only did belts, idler tires and head cleanings.
dansabrservices@yahoo.com: Feb 25 06:26AM -0800

On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 7:46:12 AM UTC-5, John-Del wrote:
> > Are there indexing marks/arrows etc in the mechanism , in case its
> > jumped a tooth?
 
> You were lucky. I'm still throwing out all sorts of worthless electronic parts from VCR days. Capstan drive ICs, reel end sensors, smps specific parts, system control parts etc. But we were doing a minimum of 50 per week including those from two pawn shops and several other dealers who only did belts, idler tires and head cleanings.
 
Tried to send you a message, but it was rejected. Send me a note at
dansabrservices AT yahoo DOT com
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Feb 24 11:21AM -0800

> Do they sell a gauge to measure Coaxial Power Connectors?
> AKA "barrel connectors".
 
> Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
None that I've found. The parts that are hard to measure, I generally just
give up and buy a few score of each nearby size. At a PPOE,
we kept notes on 'hits' when an important failure-prone connector matched
something we could order (didn't happen a lot).
 
If it were time-critical (and I couldn't find a junker adapter to clip a
pigtail from), I've got drill bit shanks down to #60 (~1mm), and modeling
clay, and a measuring microscope. The thing is, even if I DID measure
accurately, the 'nominal' sizes of commercially available mates would
still be a mystery. So, it's easier to keep a divider-box of a dozen sizes
of the males/females, with annotation as to what to reorder.
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 24 03:03PM -0800

olds...@tubes.com wrote:
 
------------------------
> pins inside are near impossible to measure.
 
> There are so many variations of them too.
 
> Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
 
** These measure ODs and IDs.
 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-0-200mm-0-02-0-001in-Vernier-caliper-paquimetro-stainless-steel-micrometer-beamcallipers-gauge-measuring/32233906118.html
 
 
 
.... Phil
tabbypurr@gmail.com: Feb 25 01:13AM -0800

On Saturday, 24 February 2018 23:03:26 UTC, Phil Allison wrote:
 
> > Someone must have some sort of gauge to measure them....
 
> ** These measure ODs and IDs.
 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-0-200mm-0-02-0-001in-Vernier-caliper-paquimetro-stainless-steel-micrometer-beamcallipers-gauge-measuring/32233906118.html
 
but are very inaccurate when measuring small diameter internal holes such as barrel connectors. Try it & you'll see why.
 
 
NT
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 25 03:21AM -0600

On 2/24/18 5:03 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> ** These measure ODs and IDs.
 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-0-200mm-0-02-0-001in-Vernier-caliper-paquimetro-stainless-steel-micrometer-beamcallipers-gauge-measuring/32233906118.html
 
> .... Phil
 
Those are nice.
In addition to the standard vernier calipers, I have the dial type.
So much easier to read.
They are also available now with LCD displays.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 25 03:24AM -0600

> but are very inaccurate when measuring small diameter internal
> holes such as barrel connectors. Try it & you'll see why.
 
I use a dial caliper. I've never had any problems.
 
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 25 02:32AM -0800

Nick Cat wrote:
 
----------------
 
> > https://www.aliexpress.com/item/8-0-200mm-0-02-0-001in-Vernier-caliper-paquimetro-stainless-steel-micrometer-beamcallipers-gauge-measuring/32233906118.html
 
> but are very inaccurate when measuring small diameter internal holes
> such as barrel connectors. Try it & you'll see why.
 
** For accuracy, I use small & PCB drills as feeler gauges.
 
Which had been posted here already....

 
 
 
.... Phil
bleachbot <bleachbot@httrack.com>: Feb 25 12:03AM +0100

bleachbot <bleachbot@httrack.com>: Feb 25 11:32AM +0100

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 25 03:29AM -0600

On 2/16/18 7:52 AM, Aleksandar Kuktin wrote:
> Well, you are a bigger expert on this than I.
 
One of the problems is using a Magic Jack for one of
the phone lines.
 
From elsewhere:
As to your MJ, then depending on your DAHDI hardware, then
it might not provide an acceptable ring voltage (90v AC 30HZ
expected) less than 30 and it likely wont be recognized as a
legitimate FXO
 
Always something.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Feb 25 09:03AM

On 24/02/2018 15:37, N_Cook wrote:
> the excess.
> Stayed proper time for 2 hours now, whether it stays un-reset for the
> next week, the longest otherwise, we'll see.
 
It reset during the cold of the night, I'll wedge open the otther 3
buttons, JIC, then get inside 'when' it resets again.
JBI <JBI@ez1.net>: Feb 24 06:26PM -0500

On 02/09/2018 02:35 AM, micky wrote:
 
> 1) If I turn off the radio or gizmo or unplug the flashdrive, it starts
> up again either (where I left off or iirc much more likely) at the start
> of the song or segment I was playing when I stopped the previous time.
 
Just out of curiosity, what is the brand/ model of the device? Been
looking and hoping there'd be something out like this for a while. Does
it auto scan FM stations or do you have to find a clear one manually?
Also, how's the music sound over the FM?
 
In ones I tried years past, they either drifted too much away from the
frequency to be useful, or seriously lacked audio response with the
effect that the music sounded poor. Maybe they've been improved since
then.
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey): Feb 24 12:51PM -0500


>> https://www.hazet.de/produktkatalog/index.php?language=en
 
>> There is a reason why some brands of tools cost more than others...
 
>Extra cost of marketing??
 
Ever seen ads for Hazet, PB, or Proto? Those guys don't advertise
much, because they don't really need to.
 
The people who put money into marketing are the mid-grade outfits like
Snap-On and Mac, who make respectable but not marvelous tools and
make up for that in advertising.
 
>Lots of profits for brand owners?
 
Maybe, but I suspect there's a lot more money selling millions of crappy
tools than hundreds of really nice ones. Harbor Freight is making money
hand over fist, and so are their suppliers. There's not a lot of money
in selling $100 Swiss pattern files, because there are only a limited number
of people who are going to buy them. Vaillorbe makes great tools, and they
might have high margins too, but they aren't making huge profits.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Feb 24 05:53PM -0500

In article <p6s8n1$c83$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com says...
> in selling $100 Swiss pattern files, because there are only a limited number
> of people who are going to buy them. Vaillorbe makes great tools, and they
> might have high margins too, but they aren't making huge profits.
 
Like a man that started a food chain of stores in the town I live in.
He sold brand name food, same as any other store. Then one day we
marked everythign down. I was a stock boy then around 17 years old. His
idea was to make 10 fast pennies instead of one slow dime. He would by
a boxcar load of an item and put it in his warehouse.
A number of years later the three big names like A&P, Kroger and Winn
Dixie closed and moved out of town. Now there are several of his stores
around in the near by are, and the only other food places are one of
each, Walmart, Audies, and one other store.
 
Many of the Harbor Freight tools are good enough for a one or two time
use. I have some, but would not buy them if I was using them to make a
living.Most of my better tools are the Craftsman tools from years ago.
The latter ones have not been as good of quality.
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 24 05:21PM -0600

On 2/24/18 4:53 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> Most of my better tools are the Craftsman tools from years ago.
> The latter ones have not been as good of quality.
 
Round 1999-2000 Sears decided to ditch their OEM provider of
Craftsman tools in favor of a cheaper supplier.
They also introduced a new line of "Sears tools" that had mo\lifetime
warranty.
 
Oh, and the original OEM? They now sell tools with a lifetime warranty
through Home Depot. Their name? Husky.
 
And for the first six months, they also offered to honor the warranty on
any Craftsman tools.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
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