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N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jul 31 02:26PM +0100 Intermittant failure to heat. Not due to failing switch, but original plastic stress-relief sheathing at the blue body gone hard with age and causing stress to cable and then a conductor break. Makes you wonder where all that plasticiser migrates to, presumably us , quite a bit.

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jul 31 08:34AM -0700 On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 8:26:55 AM UTC-5, N_Cook wrote: > at the blue body gone hard with age and causing stress to cable and then > a conductor break. Makes you wonder where all that plasticiser migrates > to, presumably us , quite a bit.   It outgasses..... to atmosphere. Just like the buildup of haze on the inside of your windshield after a hot summer. That's your dashboard, vinyl, carpeting, wire insulation, powder coated parts, upholstery, foam, virtually everything in your car's interior except the metal itself, condensing on the glass and every other surface. Good reason to keep the air flowing thru the vehicle as you drive, minimize the inhalation of those compounds. Gotta love that new car smell.

"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>: Jul 31 09:18PM +0800 On 7/31/2018 8:13 PM, Paul wrote:   >     however, an unsafe power level may be collected by a >     magnifying optic with larger aperture."   So all we need is an "accident" to hurt some babies' eyes? Which will force them to see eye doctors and pay some treatment? Or maybe buying a few pair glasses?   Oh well, I agree, it'll be good business. :)   -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不賭錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>: Jul 31 10:51PM +0800 On 7/31/2018 10:40 PM, Paul wrote:   > And what treatment is there for a retinal burn ? > I don't think there is any treatment, except for the > doctor to say he can't help you.   Stem cells? :)   Would retina of some very old persons be more vulnerable to Class 1 laser burn? OK, I know Class 1 is supposed to 100% safe. But ... you know there may be exceptions. :)   -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不賭錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>: Jul 31 04:02AM -0400 Satruday, july 28, at 10:50AM I was driving through Westminster Md, listening to 88.1 FM, Baltimore,and I was getting two copies of the same sounds, one a second or so delayed compared to the other.   This went on for at least 5 miles, at least 10 minutes.   It was nearly impossible to tell what was being said.   How could this happen?   It's a rural area with no very tall buildings and even if there were a reflection, it would not reflect at me everywhere along a 5 mile line.   I've been there many times before, usually listening to the same station, and it never happened before. So I don't think there is a second station on the same frequency in radio range.     Could it be that the transmitter itself was sending out two copies of the sound, one second apart?     After about 10 minutes, it stopped and the sound was good again.

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Jul 31 03:14AM -0700 On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 4:02:55 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:   > This went on for at least 5 miles, at least 10 minutes.   > It was nearly impossible to tell what was being said.   > How could this happen?   Have you thought of calling and telling that radio station?

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Jul 31 07:48AM -0400 On 07/31/2018 04:02 AM, micky wrote:   > Could it be that the transmitter itself was sending out two copies of > the sound, one second apart?   > After about 10 minutes, it stopped and the sound was good again.   Well, to be multipath the echo would have to be coming from 150,000 km away, so that isn't too likely. ;)   Maybe a repeater that got out of sync?   Cheers   Phil Hobbs   -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics   160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510   hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jul 31 06:12AM -0700 On Tuesday, July 31, 2018 at 3:02:55 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:   > Could it be that the transmitter itself was sending out two copies of > the sound, one second apart?   > After about 10 minutes, it stopped and the sound was good again.   We have a local AM radio station that on a daily basis, I can hear two or more commercials playing on top of each other. Typically gets corrected before the programming starts again. I think I'm hearing a locally fed commercial and a network based spot at the same time. Sometimes both over traffic or weather... Just poor production.

Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com>: Jul 31 07:12AM -0700 On 7/31/2018 1:02 AM, micky wrote:   > Could it be that the transmitter itself was sending out two copies of > the sound, one second apart?   > After about 10 minutes, it stopped and the sound was good again.   Very likely an out of sync repeater. It looks like they have 2 repeaters. http://www.wypr.org/your-public-radio-fcc-public-file

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jul 31 07:50AM -0700 >Very likely an out of sync repeater. It looks like they have 2 repeaters. >http://www.wypr.org/your-public-radio-fcc-public-file   Agreed, but WYPR only simulcasts with one station on 88.1MHz (WYPF): <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WYPR> The station broadcasts on 88.1 MHz on the FM band. Its studio is in the Charles Village neighborhood of northern Baltimore, while its transmitter is in Park Heights. The station is simulcast in the Frederick and Hagerstown area on WYPF (88.1 FM) and in the Ocean City area on WYPO (106.9 FM).   For a generic FM broadcast receiver, capture effect requires that one signal is 2dB more than the other in order to get a 30dB of reduction in "noise" from the weaker station. If the two signals are roughly equal at the receiver, then you'll get no isolation and hear both stations. Since KYPR and WYPF are both on 88.1 and fairly close to each other, my guess(tm) is that their transmit frequencies are both phase locked to some common reference, and that their audio feeds are adjusted for identical delays. In other words, they're setup for simulcast. However, that's a guess(tm) because I'm in a rush and don't have time to read exactly what they're doing.     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>: Jul 31 09:03PM +0800 On 7/31/2018 8:13 PM, Paul wrote: >     however, an unsafe power level may be collected by a >     magnifying optic with larger aperture."   > Looks like that baby is safe. Nothing to worry about.   There are counters with handheld laser scanner. And those handheld scanners are NOT placed carefully to avoid customers, at least I saw that in Hong Kong.   Did they do it deliberately? Is it a secret laser experiment? Well... :)   -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不賭錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Jul 31 10:09AM -0400 On 07/31/2018 09:03 AM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: > scanners are NOT placed carefully to avoid customers, at least I saw > that in Hong Kong.   > Did they do it deliberately? Is it a secret laser experiment? Well... :)   That beam is moving so fast that the dwell time on the retina is really, really short--probably tens of microseconds. That helps a lot.   Cheers   Phil Hobbs   -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510   http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com

"Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com>: Jul 31 10:27PM +0800 On 7/31/2018 10:09 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:   > That beam is moving so fast that the dwell time on the retina is really, > really short--probably tens of microseconds.  That helps a lot.   And you are not wearing those handheld laser scanners like a VR glass/helmet ...oh well... Um....   Is there safety classification for VR glasses/helmets? :)   -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不賭錢! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 不求神! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jul 30 07:11PM -0700 Late era TV tubes. I pay shipping + nominal pricing. Must be in original boxes. Terry     3DZ4 medium mu triode 6BK7/6BQ7 twin triode uhf preamp 6BS8 dual triode 6DS4 triode rf amp 6EV5 sharp cutoff tetrode vhf amp 6GK6 beam power pentode audio/video amp 6KD8 triode pentode vhf osc mixer 10JV8 10JY8 triode pentode sync vid amp 12AE6 double diode triode det amp car radio 12AF6 pentode amp car radio 12DS7 duplex diode tetrode auto radio 12K5 tetrode auto radio pwr amp 15CW5 pentode af amp 36AM3 1/2 wave rectifier 2AS2 hv rect 6AF11 double triode pentode agc sync video amp 6AL11 beam power pentode fm det & audio 6AR11 twin pentode if amp 6AX3 damper diode 6EW7 double triode v osc v amp 6HE5 pentode v amp 6Q11/6K11 triple triode sync clipper & agc 12AY3 1/2 wave rect damper 5U4/5V3 full wave rect 6BY5 double diode damper, rect 6DQ6 beam pentode h defl amp 6GT5 beam pentode h defl amp 6GW6 beam pentode h defl amp 6JE6 beam pentode h defl amp 21HJ5 beam pentode h defl amp 25CD6/25DN6 beam pentode h defl amp

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Jul 31 03:15AM -0700 On Monday, July 30, 2018 at 10:11:33 PM UTC-4, Terry Schwartz wrote: > 6JE6 beam pentode h defl amp > 21HJ5 beam pentode h defl amp > 25CD6/25DN6 beam pentode h defl amp   Aren't drug store pyrex glass tubes used for smoking rock cocaine?

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nishchaybhatt@gmail.com: Jul 30 05:10AM -0700 Solution Manual Electronics : A Systems Approach (4th Ed., Neil Storey) Solution Manual Electronics : A Systems Approach (5th Ed., Neil Storey)   Please sent the ones mentioned above. Thanks.

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Jul 30 02:54AM -0700 On Monday, July 23, 2018 at 3:27:18 PM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote: > Somewhere along the way there was mention about a lack of letter Q or > something like that in the German alphabet and so the keyboard > had no Q or J or whatever the letter was.   Cool. I wonder what they'd have done if the following german words appeared: 'Qualle' (Eng. 'jellyfish'): /kvulluh/, 'bequem' (Eng. 'comfortable'): /bukvame/, 'Qualität' (Eng. 'quality'): /kvullitate/ or Quelle (Eng. 'source, 'wellspring'): /kvelluh/... as in Urquelle beer. Ever had any before?

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N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jul 27 02:14PM +0100 > Morse connection. It might be worth looking through the "Popular cipher > machines" at <http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/index.htm> to see if > any of the keyboards match.   I had a good virtual rummage there, and nothing like them, I might take some pics and email them. Sometime I might try decoding the circumferential fluting, and the individual numbering of each letter, don't even know how many "bits" at this stage. There are also some "blank" keycaps, same overall form but no disc and so no letter . These don't look as though they,ve burst off as it seems all in one moulding, but individual number markings, and same coded? flutings

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Jul 27 04:50AM -0700 > > John   > John > What happens if you look at the discriminator output? What if you switch to FM mono? Maybe there is a circuit right after that output that "preamplifies the demodulated signal before it gets to the common audio circuits? Lenny       No change in mono mode Len.   In any case, it doesn't matter. Customer doesn't use FM so he picked it up yesterday.

freenews <freenews@freenews.com>: Jul 26 10:16AM -0700 My experience with Al is that a copper pigtail is required ! Use a wire nut with Al to Cu goop to keep from oxidizing. Cu then goes to the GFCI or switch etc.

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Jul 26 08:13PM -0700 On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 1:16:31 PM UTC-4, freenews wrote: > My experience with Al is that a copper pigtail is required ! > Use a wire nut with Al to Cu goop to keep from oxidizing. > Cu then goes to the GFCI or switch etc.   Right. Use NoaLox, which is an anti-oxidant compound. Noalox stands for "No Aluminum Oxidation". It goes between copper and aluminum connections to SUPPOSEDLY stop fires.

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jul 26 08:16PM -0700 Fox's Mercantile wrote: > > absorbs hf content so the gfci doesn't see much of it.   > And in case it isn't obvious, that series combination is across > the AC line. Not on the switched side of the load.   ** A simple check that a you have snubbed the switch off arc is to monitor the AM band with a radio tuned off station. The noise burst heard via the radio when you press the test button should be much reduced.         ..... Phil

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Jul 26 08:18PM -0700 > there is a good point.   > I think there are GFI's that are calibrated for a little higher trip current.   > Those might be worth a try.   I guess GFI's can't be reset by just pushing a button, though. GFCI's can.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jul 27 04:14AM -0700 > > I think there are GFI's that are calibrated for a little higher trip current.   > > Those might be worth a try.   > I guess GFI's can't be reset by just pushing a button, though. GFCI's can.   The former is also a breaker, and so must go through the "OFF" position before resetting - as with any breaker. The latter is not, and need only be reset.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

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"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jul 25 12:27PM -0700 We have established that you cannot read for content. No, we do not install GFCI devices throughout the house. Where they are either necessary-by-code or just a good idea, we use the CIRCUIT BREAKER combination device. Then, it becomes that super-fast circuit-breaker.   I do not know if the higher-end devices have built-in snubbers - I do know that we are generally free of nuisance trips. As to motors, our hot-tubs are each fed with a 50A device that is about 30% larger than a standard double-pole unit, and feeds to a common neutral- ending that myth. The pump is 120V, the blower is 120V, the heater is 240V @ 5,000 watts. So, depending on what is going at any given time, the load is simply not balanced.   All of our devices are damp-location rated, figuring it cannot hurt, and the premium is minimal.   Kids, grandkids, cats, dogs, and all the parts-and-pieces thereto. Makes these sorts of choices pretty basic and pretty obvious.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

makolber@yahoo.com: Jul 25 12:37PM -0700 > All of our devices are damp-location rated, figuring it cannot hurt, and the premium is minimal.   there is a good point.   I think there are GFI's that are calibrated for a little higher trip current.   Those might be worth a try.   m

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Jul 25 04:50PM -0700 > the answer I'll try it and if new, higher quality GFCIs work then that > will be great and the question answered. > Eric   Snubbers are the obvious option to try. 0.1uF + 100R in series absorbs hf content so the gfci doesn't see much of it.     NT

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jul 25 07:55PM -0500 > Snubbers are the obvious option to try. 0.1uF + 100R in series > absorbs hf content so the gfci doesn't see much of it.   And in case it isn't obvious, that series combination is across the AC line. Not on the switched side of the load.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Jul 25 08:46PM -0700 > We have established that you cannot read for content. No, we do not install GFCI devices throughout the house...   Unless the house is still under construction =============================================== DATES GFCI REQUIREMENTS WERE ESTABLISHED ([NEC]:   1971 Receptacles within 15 feet of pool walls 1971 All equipment used with storable swimming pools 1973 All outdoor receptacles 1974 Construction Sites :   -- https://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/gfcis-code-changes-history-chart-12234/

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jul 26 04:15AM -0700 > On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 3:27:27 PM UTC-4, pf...@aol.com wrote: > > We have established that you cannot read for content. No, we do not install GFCI devices throughout the house...   > Unless the house is still under construction   Our house was built in 1890, with substantial additions added in 1928.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid>: Jul 25 09:48PM +0100 On 23/07/18 20:27, N_Cook wrote: > bulbs are flattened rather than spherical , because depite the > reputution of German design being so great , they cocked up and the lid > would not close with the original intended bulbs, without breaking them.   A late reply, but I had to ask someone who had worked on repairing an Enigma machine about this. I am afraid your idea that the design was fault is not correct. The real explanation can be found here <http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/enigma/lamps.htm>   --   Jeff

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jul 26 08:30AM +0100 On 25/07/2018 21:48, Jeff Layman wrote: > Enigma machine about this. I am afraid your idea that the design was > fault is not correct. The real explanation can be found here > <http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/enigma/lamps.htm>   "flattened lamps that are required for the Enigma." If they had allowed more space, to recess the bulb holder deeper, then no requirement for flattened bulbs. But discoloured windows rather than broken bulbs would have been the result of the design error, it seems. As E and T are single dits or dahs, there is presumably a Morse connection with this 24 character alphabet, but no further foreward as to why or what for.

Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid>: Jul 26 09:45AM +0100 On 26/07/18 08:30, N_Cook wrote: > As E and T are single dits or dahs, there is presumably a Morse > connection with this 24 character alphabet, but no further foreward as > to why or what for.   Well, the article does hedge its bets a bit. This is the start of the first paragraph: "An Enigma machine has small - rather unusual - lamps on its lamp panel."   And this the start of the second: "Lamps like these were rather common before and during WWII"   So are they "rather unusual" or "rather common"?!   Can't help you with the E and T issue, but you might be right about the Morse connection. It might be worth looking through the "Popular cipher machines" at <http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/index.htm> to see if any of the keyboards match.   --   Jeff

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jul 26 10:26AM +0100 I find the fluting business equally intriguing, perhaps a bit like military connectors MIL-DTL-38999 ? series . Bakelite , but perhaps similar reasoning, that only certain patterns of fluting will mate male and female and correct indexing. These key "caps" must have fitted into some sort of matrix of "coded" patterned recesses, rather than projecting upwards on levers like a typewriter/teleprinter.

captainvideo462009@gmail.com: Jul 25 06:38PM -0700 This is somewhat of an off topic question but it does pertain partially to my 77. I recently bought at auction a 2010 Dodge Charger which was a former New Hampshire state police car. There are three holes, One hole is in the center of the roof. Another is further back about two inches from the top of the rear windshield, and the last one is in the center of the trunk. They look like the type of holes that would be cut out for mounting NMO bases.   This is actually very convenient because I have a low band (around 42MHZ } business radio, and a Yaesu FT857 mobile radio with a DTMF microphone. I would like to use the Yaesu on both 2 and 6 meters, and I would also like to make provisions for using one of my PRC77's on 51MHZ from time to time as well.   So I want to install three antennas on the car. These would all be NMO type quarter wave base loaded whip antennas. The configuration I considered is as follows: The 42MHZ antenna would be in the center of the roof The six meter whip would be behind it and the 2 meter antenna would be on the trunk. I figured if I'm not using the 77,(which would probably be a good portion of the time) I can AB switch the six and two meter antennas into the Yaesu.   I'm not interested in having the best antennas on my car. I already have the bases, cables, and whips to do all this. I wouldn't have to buy anything. I just want to have a little Ham fun with them while keeping my business communications intact as well. And of course I need to fill the holes...Does it seem like the antennas might interfere with one another? Thanks, Lenny, KC1CPX

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jul 25 08:10PM -0700 If the antennas end up at least 12" from each other, there should be no interference or de-tuning.

makolber@yahoo.com: Jul 25 01:07PM -0700 So, if you parallel a mess > of capacitors to make a run capacitor with the correct value for PF=1, > then the capacitors will dissipate zero power.   not true. if there is current flowing through the cap, ESR of the cap will dissipate power. The purpose of a motor cap is not to correct the PF.   There is no such thing as a single phase motor. Small motors have shaded poles or other tricks to create a phase shift. Medium size motors motors use a cap. Large motors are typically fed with 3 phase.   I think the optimum cap value, is where the current through the aux winding is 90 deg out of phase with the main winding. m

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jul 25 03:23PM -0700 >> of capacitors to make a run capacitor with the correct value for PF=1, >> then the capacitors will dissipate zero power.   >not true.   I agree. I screwed up and forgot about ESR.   >Small motors have shaded poles or other tricks to create a phase shift. >Medium size motors motors use a cap. >Large motors are typically fed with 3 phase.   Also true. However, the original problem is with a 3HP motor, with no run capacitor. I guess for high torque starting, such as with an air compressor, this would be an exception.   >I think the optimum cap value, is where the current through the aux >winding is 90 deg out of phase with the main winding.   Agreed. This explains it better than I could: <https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-capacitor-start-capacitor-run-in-a-motor>         -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

captainvideo462009@gmail.com: Jul 25 01:01PM -0700 On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 10:10:32 PM UTC-4, John-Del wrote: > Fisher RS-717 with water damage. Guy wants it fixed for nostalgia's sake...   > John   John What happens if you look at the discriminator output? What if you switch to FM mono? Maybe there is a circuit right after that output that "preamplifies the demodulated signal before it gets to the common audio circuits? Lenny

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Jul 25 12:35PM -0700 On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 4:09:38 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote: > Someone here seems much better at finding service manuals than me.   > AFAICR: its just a web page with a well hidden button to download it.   > Thanks for any help.   You might be thinking of:   https://elektrotanya.com/   But I doubt Sony ever produced a service manual for such a cheap item. They're on ebay in the $20 range.

captainvideo462009@gmail.com: Jul 25 12:30PM -0700 > This radio had an open speaker field coil. I subbed a choke from my junk pile in place of the coil and used a PM magnet speaker. I have no idea what the specs on the OEM field coil were or those of the choke for that matter. I just grabbed something to try. The choke is about half the size of a baseball if that makes any sense. The choke came out of something God only knows what and how long ago and measures about 40 ohms. The filter, a three section twenty UF, two at 450V and one at 25 volts was replaced at some point and seems to be OK. I mention this because there is a very slight hum out of the speaker and I'm thinking that perhaps the elimination of the hum bucking coil in the OEM speaker is the cause of this. The hum isn't that bad. as soon as you turn the volume up a bit it's really not noticeable but without using another electro dynamic speaker can I do anything about this? I'm also wondering if I sized the choke properly. Does anyone have any thoughts on these two concerns? Thanks, Lenny   Thanks for all the great ideas guys. I did get it going but it needs an alignment particularly on the short wave band. Lenny

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Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jul 24 05:36PM -0500 >> you can't fix stupid. " > > In fact what have you EVER contributed here ?   > All you do is bitch about other people, are you a cunt ?   I may be a cunt, but I'm not an ignorant cunt. I don't constantly boast about how I "get away with" nor do I find imaginary boogeymen hiding under every rock.   I know what I am capable of doing and doing well. I don't need to constantly mouth off about how clever I am.   So go fuck yourself.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

etpm@whidbey.com: Jul 24 04:07PM -0700 >with Levitons and haven't had one trigger randomly. The washing >machine is connected to one and the electric lawnmower is connected to >another. Thanks for that Chuck. I think the GFCIs that I have are probably OK but are just not capable of handling the inductive kickback from my stuff. Eric

etpm@whidbey.com: Jul 24 04:10PM -0700 On 24 Jul 2018 19:49:43 GMT, Allodoxaphobia >Uncoil the extension cord and it ran Just Fine. The inductive kick of >turning on the motor was enough to "do it".   >Jonesy I am pretty much convinced now that it is the inductive kickback that is causing the problem. The clipper motor is more akin to a solenoid and I figured out that the washer is almost always tripping the GFCI when a solenoid valve is turned off. In any case the tripping ONLY occurs when the load is removed. Eric

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Jul 24 04:10PM -0700 > Any other advice is blather.   > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   unfortunately that's incorrect on several points.

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Jul 24 04:31PM -0700 On Tuesday, 24 July 2018 21:45:48 UTC+1, Terry Schwartz wrote:   > Truthfully, you'd be better off paying for arc-fault breakers. They provide a level of safety against arcing that is likely to cause a fire. The human risk is greater than shock. And certainly GFCI functionality is NOT needed in every circuit in your home. Add the GFCIs where the local risk of shock warrants the installation.   UK now requires gfci protection (at the panel) on all domestic circuits. So when smoke particles land on the fire alarm mains supply wiring, the fire alarm loses its power. Great eh.     NT

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 06:32PM -0700 >"UK now requires gfci protection (at the panel) on all domestic circuits. So when smoke particles land on the fire alarm mains supply wiring, the fire alarm loses its power. Great eh. '   Oh, you thought they want you alive ?   HAHAHAHAHA

Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com>: Jul 25 01:58PM +0800 > when a solenoid valve is turned off. In any case the tripping ONLY > occurs when the load is removed. > Eric   have you tried some snubbers?

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jul 25 07:30AM -0700 No one expects a normal extension cord or appliance built with the correct spacings and dielectric materials to arc. Arcs typically occur at fatigued wires, wires under mechanical tension, screws on outlets and switches, and similar connections, sometimes in a lamp socket or poorly wired junction, wire nut, set screw, push in terminal (JUST DON'T USE THOSE).

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 25 07:45AM -0700 >"...push in terminal (JUST DON'T USE THOSE). "   In wiring ? I've seen those, I find it hard to believe they're code. Someone had a little private meeting.

etpm@whidbey.com: Jul 25 08:25AM -0700 On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 13:58:38 +0800, Rheilly Phoull >> occurs when the load is removed. >> Eric   >have you tried some snubbers? No. I don't know enough about these things and how they work. I just wanted to find out why they were tripping. Now that it may be I have the answer I'll try it and if new, higher quality GFCIs work then that will be great and the question answered. Eric

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jul 25 09:22AM -0500 Anyone else have one of these? I need to find the BIOS settings that will recognize the hard drive.   Is there a news group or forum to look for as well?   Thankies   -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

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jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 10:15AM -0700 >"The basement GFCI is also near a sink."   Between the washer hoses and cord you might be able get 6 feet away. Not so sure that would satisfy code because there is still water in the washer. However, do you need a GFCI where there might be a bucket of water ? What about if your garden hose is long enough and you decide to use it to wash the basement floor ?   At least that is some kind of rationale, if you do that make SURE that ground wire is tight.   Not so in the bathroom. Perhaps one of those strips audiophiles use to keep RF out of their stereos. The filtering should work both ways. If a new GFCI there doesn't help that may be your only solution.   You said you kept an old washing machine around for when the new one breaks ? I suggest you never get rid of it. In this area water is pretty cheap and I have no use for a washing machine with a microprocessor and inferior relays and valves, and probably plastic parts that should not be plastic. In other areas water is much more expensive and it may be worth it for them.   One thing about older dryers - on ours the door is pretty stout and opens down. That means you can just throw the clothes over, walk over and scoop them in a couple of times. If it opens to the side you have to get a basket, probably the same one your dirty clothes came in, put the WET clothes in there which is when they'll pick up the maximum dirt, carry the basket, possibly around the door if it opens the wrong way for the layout of your basement, and then put in only how much fits in your hand scoop by scoop.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jul 24 10:32AM -0700 OK - let's cut to the chase:   GFCI devices are designed to save lives under specific conditions. Under those same conditions, they can be inconvenient. That is a given.   What they do: They detect current flowing from the hot line, and not returning via the neutral line. If they detect this condition of more than a very, very few MA, they trip. Meaning that they WILL NOT protect anyone deliberately inserting themselves into a circuit. This despite sincere and touching wishes otherwise.   Some devices will trip a GFCI pretty much most of the time. However, that this happens DOES NOT make the GFCI device faulty. It makes the device faulty. What the device is doing is getting current from the hot side and sending it somewhere else but the neutral.   One should not (in some cases, cannot) cascade GFCI devices. Often this will cause false-trips, especially with motors.   A GFCI is also an ultra-fast circuit breaker. Meaning that older motors that commonly will not trip a regular breaker will often trip a GFCI, yet not be defective - this due to the momentary turn-on surge.   If a properly installed, properly functioning GFCI device is tripping - it is for a reason. As it is a life-safety device, the point of all this is not to defeat it, but to correct the reason for the tripping.   Any other response is stupid. Any other advice is blather.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

etpm@whidbey.com: Jul 24 11:07AM -0700 On Tue, 24 Jul 2018 10:32:20 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" >Any other advice is blather.   >Peter Wieck >Melrose Park, PA The clipper is a double insulated device and so only has two wires in the cord. Where does the current go? It doesn't matter which way the cord is plugged. It is not a polarized plug so I have tried both ways. Still, almost always when the clipper is turned off the GFCI trips. Could this be from back EMF from the motor winding? A power surge when the magnetic field collapses? I have looked some online for the answer and haven't found it yet. Thanks, Eric

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jul 24 01:05PM -0500 > correct the reason for the tripping.   > Any other response is stupid. > Any other advice is blather.   And yet, we have people posting here, that consistently prove you can't fix stupid.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jul 24 11:20AM -0700 On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 2:01:42 PM UTC-4, et...@whidbey.com wrote: A power surge when > the magnetic field collapses?   Very likely this. Old-style electric clippers do not use motors per-se (things that spin around). They use what is, effectively, a buzzer that switches the electric field around a magnet pulling it back and forth. When the field collapses, the magnet induces feedback, and will trip some GFCI devices.   https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwit26ixrLjcAhUFX60KHUWSAMoQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgetdrawings.com%2Fhair-clipper-drawing&psig=AOvVaw0kOEmGwhfydJmjQ66uOJBE&ust=1532542641709432   Just for giggles, try turning over the plug in the receptacle (unless it is polarized). It may be that the pulse is going down the neutral line and is thereby seen as spurious by the GFCI.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Jul 24 11:30AM -0700 In article <cdqeldpj8l17gi1sc5kjcg98i6g1t0lsg5@4ax.com>, >Could this be from back EMF from the motor winding? A power surge when >the magnetic field collapses? I have looked some online for the answer >and haven't found it yet.   Here's the explanation I read, quite some time ago. It still makes sense to me.   A GFCI tries to accurately measure the imbalance in the current flow between the hot and neutral wires, and trip the breaker if a significant imbalance appears. The imbalance would (goes the thinking) exist if and only if there's a current leak from hot, to ground (bypassing the neutral return).   GFCI balance sensors are not perfect. They usually consist of something like a toroidal transformer, with the hot and neutral wires forming one winding, and a sense winding forming the other. Any imbalance between the hot and neutral wire current flows would induce a current in the sense winding, while (in principle) perfectly balanced and opposed hot/neutral currents would result in no net magnetic flux and thus no current induced in the sense winding.   The balance of these toroidal transformers is necessarily imperfect. The hot and neutral wire paths aren't identical, sometimes one is wound a bit more tightly than the other, and they aren't the identical distance away from the sense winding. Hence, there's some difference in inductive coupling within the transformer, and some difference in capacitive coupling between the two "balanced" wires, and the sense winding.   This imbalance tends to be worse at high frequencies where e.g. the difference in capacitive coupling makes a difference.   When a motor-operated device is switched off, and creates a switching arc due to inductive "kickback", the arc creates a burst of high-frequency energy (easily covering the AM band and sometimes going up to VHF). Even if the hot and neutral currents are perfectly balanced (and they may not be - there might be some capacitive coupling between the device and the operator's hand) the less-than- perfect balance in the current sensor can allow a small blip of current to be induced in the sense winding... and this can trip the GFCI.   If the device contains a snubber, this may not happen. A GFCI with a snubber/EMI filter at its output (and I suspect that some of these do exist) would be less vulnerable to this sort of false trip.

Chuck <ch@dejanews.net>: Jul 24 01:47PM -0500 >I do test most of the GFCI receptacles monthly. They always pass. So >I'll replace the two and see what happens. >Eric I just replaced the GFCI outlets in my house. I had a problem with triggering for no apparent reason with new GE ones. Replaced these with Levitons and haven't had one trigger randomly. The washing machine is connected to one and the electric lawnmower is connected to another.

Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net>: Jul 24 07:49PM > relatively high frequencies, the result being they tend to trip on > arcing. Of course that doesn't rule out your GFCIs being faulty or > substandard, or your washing machine having N-E leakage.   In a previous residence I had an "outside" GFCI trip when using an electrice lawn mower --- when the mower was plugged into the still-coiled 75 foot extension cord (... about a 3 foot diameter coil). Uncoil the extension cord and it ran Just Fine. The inductive kick of turning on the motor was enough to "do it".   Jonesy -- Marvin L Jones | Marvin | W3DHJ.net | linux 38.238N 104.547W | @ jonz.net | Jonesy | FreeBSD * Killfiling google & XXXXbanter.com: jonz.net/ng.htm

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jul 24 01:17PM -0700 >Any other response is stupid. Any other advice is blather.   I beg to differ. Other responses are not necessarily stupid nor blather. There are additional valuable points to be made that you did not include.   > A GFCI is also an ultra-fast circuit breaker. Meaning that older motors that commonly will not trip a regular breaker will often trip a GFCI, yet not be defective - this due to the momentary turn-on surge.   Again, I beg to differ. A GFCI is is not by design a circuit breaker. It does not respond to sustained circuit overload conditions in a manner that protects house wiring -- which is exactly what a breaker is intended to do. Prevent fires.   A friend recently called me, mystified, asking why the GFCI he'd just installed was not tripping under a 30+ amp load, it was a 15 amp GFCI. I told him..... it's not a breaker. It's designed to protect humans from shocks, not fires. In this case, I expect the eventual failure mode would have been overheated wiring resulting in a fire somewhere in the circuit.... not necessarily the GFCI.   My friend was trying to create a protected sub circuit in a garage, where there was no access to the breaker, because it was in the house. I instructed him to install a sub panel with breakers and GFCIs in the outlets -- or use GFCI breakers. An expensive option.   Will some GFCIs trip (as per this thread) from momentary overloads? Yes, because switching inductive loads create a brief imbalance in the neutral. Signals out of phase, so to speak. Not from over current. Most will happily supply excess current if the rest of the house circuit allows.   Typically, a long wire run to a motor, an extension cord for example, will aggravate the imbalance, adding inductance.   >Some devices will trip a GFCI pretty much most of the time. However, that this happens DOES NOT make the GFCI device faulty. It makes the device faulty   Again, I beg to differ. Nuisance trips are NOT necessarily indicative of a defective device. There are various motor start and stop conditions that can cause an imbalance (loading, inductance, stalls, voltage drop, even temperature).   GFCIs do fail in-elegantly. Some will refuse to trip. Others will trip too often, even under non imbalanced conditions. Better quality GFCIs will hold up longer and fail to safety -- tripping too often rather than not at all.   Terry

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jul 24 01:31PM -0700 On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 4:17:35 PM UTC-4, Terry Schwartz wrote: > >Any other response is stupid. > Any other advice is blather.   > I beg to differ. Other responses are not necessarily stupid nor blather. There are additional valuable points to be made that you did not include.   In every case in our house, we will use a GFCI breaker.   We are willing to pay the freight to achieve that double-duty function.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 01:33PM -0700 >"GFCI devices are designed to save lives under specific conditions. Under those same conditions, they can be inconvenient. That is a given. "   You mean inconvenience like going to work in stinky clothes or having all your food spoil because you can't afford a new refrigerator ? "Inconveniences" like that ? i do not disagree, but there are times when the risk is just so insignificant it is not worth the bullshit. And the washer is even worse than the bathroom. In most bathrooms the floor is nowhere near and effective ground. The sink and tub, even if connected by copper and cast iron (some still is) almost all of them use like a whip like a condensing unit, plastic and non conductive. Unless you have really hard water the water itself would not be too much of a problem. It does not conduct all that well, the salts etc. in it do and they get there from what is on your skin when it gets wet. You may not agree, but I think it is fine not to wear a seatbelt and to turn off the air bags if you feel like it. Unless someone owns you.   Then there are statistics. How many lives have air bags saved if the person is wearing a seatbelt ? Close to zero and even then they might just hit the windshield. I just read about the newer requirement for arc proof breakers and the site cites how many1 people have been electrocuted but it doesn't say how many would have been saved by an arc proof breaker. This is more like the best advertising in the world, FORCE them to buy it. I see things done now with newer style devices and splices that i think should be against code. Are they ? Nope. Like that newfangled Teflon tape, it MAKES tapered thread fittings on pipes leak and I got proof. At the DIY they tell you it is code but it is not.   >"What they do: They detect current flowing from the hot line, and not returning via the neutral line."   As well as the opposite. That is why they cannot share a neutral except under certain conditions.   >"Meaning that they WILL NOT protect anyone deliberately inserting themselves into a circuit. "   Yes they will. that is the idea except for the "deliberately" part. you think they are worried about the electric meter not detecting the current through the neutral and not charging you for it ? News flash, the neutral does not even go through the meter. It doesn't have to, no matter where the current from the hot(s) go(es) it registers.   When any part of that current goes anywhere else it trips. It is set to the almost lethal range I think. At least top where muscle contraction would make it impossible for someone to let go.   >"A GFCI is also an ultra-fast circuit breaker. Meaning that older motors that commonly will not trip a regular breaker will often trip a GFCI, yet not be defective - this due to the momentary turn-on surge. "   And just what do you propose to remedy that ? Just don't use it and sell it to someone in another country, oh wait, it probably won't be compatible with their power. So I guess just throw it out and do without your lathe, milling machine, planer, jointer, bandsaw, just throw it all in the garbage. OK.   >"If a properly installed, properly functioning GFCI device is tripping - it is for a reason. As it is a life-safety device, the point of all this is not to defeat it, but to correct the reason for the tripping. "   Are you about to take on advising people how to do that on everything ? Will you also tell them to scrap that 1957 Chevy that's worth $ 35,000 because it doesn't have an air bag ? I live in the real world, do you ?   >"Any other response is stupid. Any other advice is blather. "   So you are claiming you are the smartest which means you hit 192 on an IQ test, rewired 20 houses and satisfied the most strict inspectors in town ?   Well then I will put out an ad for you for giving free advice.   The washer here is not on a GFCI and I will go down to the uncovered floor in the basement and load the washer in my bare feet. And I will not put my bench on a GFCI. And nothing in the garage is going on a GFCI.   The point is that not everyone can have everything just perfect.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 01:35PM -0700 >"And yet, we have people posting here, that consistently prove you can't fix stupid."   So send the guy a check so he can afford to be safe. As him how much. If you send it somehow through a non-profit organization you can deduct it off your adjusted income.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 01:37PM -0700 >"When the field collapses, the magnet induces feedback, and will trip some GFCI devices. "   Then GFCIs should be designed with HF suppression in the detection coil circuit.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 01:38PM -0700 >"Replaced these with Levitons "   One good solution. Stick with Leviton.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 01:42PM -0700 >"The balance of these toroidal transformers is necessarily imperfect. "   That is what makes them trip fist at like 20 amps, give or take. Worls well except for certain motors that only take more for a part of a second to start.   Square D QO series breakers use a scheme something like that without the nulling effect. They also have thermal which operates more slowly, trying to actually approximate the temperature of the wire. they are about the best that can be had as far as I know.

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jul 24 01:45PM -0700 Truthfully, you'd be better off paying for arc-fault breakers. They provide a level of safety against arcing that is likely to cause a fire. The human risk is greater than shock. And certainly GFCI functionality is NOT needed in every circuit in your home. Add the GFCIs where the local risk of shock warrants the installation.

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jul 24 03:47PM -0500 On 7/24/18 3:33 PM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote: [ His usual anti-government anti-regulation conspiracy nonsense. ]   And here we have proof of what I said about you can't fix stupid.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 01:53PM -0700 >"One should not (in some cases, cannot) cascade GFCI devices."   I missed that, thinking someone else posted it. Many GFCI outlets had outputs on the back to be sent to other outlets that would be also protected. I did break code one time to void a serious shitload of work on a prequoted job. It was to protect over the counter lighting in the kitchen.   In the 1990s i became against code to use the device for the splice, so all those outputs on the back became useless, the only code option was to run a GFCI breaker in the box. If you had seen the job you would have done the same thing. And there was no changing the plan or the price. We, well the boss of the job didn't even set the price, the customer said "I have this much money". Leaving his kitchen half apart would have resulted in a lawsuit.   Nothing is dangerous, the spirit of the code saying the device can't be the splice was because it could complicate replacing the device.   To everyone here, when you have been there and done as much as I have then you can tell me. And again, the strictest inspectors in town. They find out I did it they might not even inspect. I still always expect it, and I think that if someone gets killed because of your wiring you should go to jail.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 01:56PM -0700 >"Again, I beg to differ. A GFCI is is not by design a circuit breaker."   Take it to about a 45 amp load for 30 mS and most will trip.   But in general, you are correct. Overcurrent protection is not their primary function.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 02:04PM -0700 >"My friend was trying to create a protected sub circuit in a garage, where there was no access to the breaker, because it was in the house. I instructed him to install a sub panel with breakers and GFCIs in the outlets -- or use GFCI breakers. An expensive option. "   Not all that bad really, unless you don't know where to get the stuff. I little 6 position MLO might only be $ 30, one 240 V GFCI, that's expensive. thing is, if there was no wiring in the garage before, they want to see arc proof. Whether that is actually law is debatable, but the GFCI breakers can be as low as like $ 15. (regular breakers are inder $ 10) so 3 of them and one 240, that meets the requirement of five moves or less to shut down the building. (but not if it is an attached garage, then you got no problems as long as there is a main breaker at the mains coming in, if you run separate SERVICE that is different and I have known people to do that, they painted cars and had a huge compressor)

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 02:10PM -0700 >"In every case in our house, we will use a GFCI breaker. "   For attic lights when there are no outlets ? OK then, that is your prerogative.   >"We are willing to pay the freight to achieve that double-duty function. "   You have every right to do so. You have every right to put roll cages and five point restraints in your cars. You have every right to buy only saws that have that protection for if you touch the blade it stops in microseconds.   But not to do such things by 21;37:11 tonight because they might DIE at 21:38:45 tonight does not mean they are stupid.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 02:27PM -0700 >"Truthfully, you'd be better off paying for arc-fault breakers. "   Let him pay the freight.   In one bedroom we got a lamp, an overhead light and a litterbox. I know how dangerous those litterboxes can be.   In another we got a window AC unit, an unplugged older PC, a TV and a convertor box.   Here's the biggie, in my bedroom I got an old CRT TV (with the best friggin color rendition I have seen in a ong time that NO LCD could ever match), a convertor box, a VCR, an amplifier of about 15 WPC and a Pioneer SG-9500 EQ so I can understand almost half of their shit that sounds like it is coming through a series of paper towel tubes.   Yeah, all that is about to arc out. Who knows, I might decide to shoot up the place. Oh wait, I am not on any psychotropic drugs, nor need them.   You know, those damn internal connections from the power cord are only like an inch or two apart, and you know how 120 volts can all the sudden arc across that.   Oh wait. It doesn't.   And of course the wet bar, oh wait, no wet bar. I guess I will have to put one in. It's nearly 10 feet to the kitchen. And aa small fridge, well those are always arcing over. Right ? Didn't that kill like thousands of people every year ?   Oh wait, that was medical mistakes that killed 250,000 people a year. I think if you jump out every breaker and fuse in your house you are ore safe than if you are in the hospital. And this is the AMA's own figures. Look it up.   So if you DO get a severe electric shock, seems to me you are better off writhing on the ground and moaning until it passes rather than calling 911.   The odds are better.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 02:31PM -0700 >"And here we have proof of what I said about you can't fix stupid. "   You send me the money and I will upgrade this house in every way you prescribe, oh great one.   Or don't you care ? Coe on, how can you not care when you are in here with your golden (costing) advice ? Everyone must be safe. What about caring for others ? Why are you here calling people stupid when you have no better plan to offer ? In fact NO PLAN to offer ? In fact what have you EVER contributed here ?   All you do is bitch about other people, are you a cunt ?

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 24 02:33PM -0700 >"And here we have proof of what I said about you can't fix stupid. "   Are you nothing but a cunt or are you gong to send the OPer and me a check so we can be safe ?   I bet you are deathly afraid of many things.

"Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien1@virginmedia.com>: Jul 24 09:09PM +0100 Someone here seems much better at finding service manuals than me.   AFAICR: its just a web page with a well hidden button to download it.   Thanks for any help.

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