Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 9 updates in 2 topics

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Aug 31 04:46AM -0700

On Thursday, 30 August 2018 03:27:44 UTC+1, root wrote:
 
> > https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-6-Port-SATA-Host-Card/dp/B002PX9BX2
 
> I made that suggestion to the owner of the MB. She declined because
> she thought the MB was no longer reliable.
 
A card is good, but a grossly overheating chip does still in place not make for a reliable board. But it's a very cheap option that will likely work.
 
 
NT
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 31 09:15AM -0700


> A card is good, but a grossly overheating chip does still in place not make for a reliable board. But it's a very cheap option that will likely work.
 
> NT
 
 
We don't know that it's overheating. It could be running at the right temp but still failing thermally.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 30 05:58PM -0700

>"he may not have waited 20 years to scrap that antique. "
 
If I had one of those I would restore it or at least make it work if the CRT was good.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 30 06:01PM -0700

>"It's puzzling enough why people reply to old posts,"
 
Seems most of them are on Google. They're probably doing a search and when they get hits they neglect to notice the date.
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 30 07:01PM -0700

> >"he may not have waited 20 years to scrap that antique. "
 
> If I had one of those I would restore it or at least make it work if the CRT was good.
 
I have a customer with a late version of the Zenith Vertical Chassis. The old bat insisted I fix it for her again a few months ago (put in a tripler about two years ago). It was shrinking left and right and blooming, and I remember fixing a bunch of these for the same problem. When I pulled my schematic I remembered that carbon resistor that overheats and goes up in value behind the 9-90 module. Looked pretty good with the sweep back to normal; strong tube. If she ever calls me to dump it, I'm putting it my truck and driving it over to your house.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 30 09:39PM -0700

That line started with the EC line. The best of them IMO was the GC line, ideally a 25GC45 or 50. They continued the type of chassis but started using those hybrid resistors in the later ones.
 
Another goodie from back then was the Magnavox T995 chassis, I would take one but I want the older version with the volume under the tuners that actually had good sound. I had a GC Zenith with good sound as well, both of them later went with speaker speakers, and the Magnavox ones switched to a volume control with a shitty taper, the older ones were nice and smooth.
 
Those were part of my "good" lie of sets when I was in business. They got 30 days on everything, 90 on parts and a year on the CRT. there was NEVER a TV in my main showroom with a rejuvinated CRT. Then we had the discount sets. If I zapped the tune that's where it went, and I told people they were, but all was not lost because ?I had one of the best rejuviators - a B & K 467. It had a very nice touch and didn't destroy the cathode. They gave you a stack of ONE YEAR warranty cards to give the customers with a set that had a zapped CRT.
 
One advantage we had was a good source for rebuilt CRTs. I forgot the name of the place but a old German guy ran it, did all the work himself. Gave a 3 year warranty. I think he was called Willie.
tabbypurr@gmail.com: Aug 31 04:43AM -0700


> Another goodie from back then was the Magnavox T995 chassis, I would take one but I want the older version with the volume under the tuners that actually had good sound. I had a GC Zenith with good sound as well, both of them later went with speaker speakers, and the Magnavox ones switched to a volume control with a shitty taper, the older ones were nice and smooth.
 
> Those were part of my "good" lie of sets when I was in business. They got 30 days on everything, 90 on parts and a year on the CRT. there was NEVER a TV in my main showroom with a rejuvinated CRT. Then we had the discount sets. If I zapped the tune that's where it went, and I told people they were, but all was not lost because ?I had one of the best rejuviators - a B & K 467. It had a very nice touch and didn't destroy the cathode. They gave you a stack of ONE YEAR warranty cards to give the customers with a set that had a zapped CRT.
 
> One advantage we had was a good source for rebuilt CRTs. I forgot the name of the place but a old German guy ran it, did all the work himself. Gave a 3 year warranty. I think he was called Willie.
 
 
Zapping CRTs ruins them. As emission falls again, as it does, severe smearing occurs. A much better fix is to boost the heater voltage: this lasts. I wasn't a big fan of 10% boost, 33% does the job on most sets. An extra turn on the LOPTF does that easily & cheaply on most sets.
 
I did try 66% voltage boost on a couple of really bad ones just for experiment's sake, and surprisingly it worked & kept working. One (Sony Trinitron) was so bad that nothing was visible at all on screen, even in a dark room. What kind of strange person kept using it until it reached that point who knows. Anyway the result was plenty of output on all channels, but colour tracking was lousy. That kept working for years until I tired of it.
 
 
NT
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 31 07:07AM -0700

I always tried boosting the filament first. Zapping was the last resort.
 
Even boosting the filament kept it out the prime stock category.
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 31 08:09AM -0700


> Zapping CRTs ruins them. As emission falls again, as it does, severe smearing occurs. A much better fix is to boost the heater voltage: this lasts. I wasn't a big fan of 10% boost, 33% does the job on most sets. An extra turn on the LOPTF does that easily & cheaply on most sets.
 
> I did try 66% voltage boost on a couple of really bad ones just for experiment's sake, and surprisingly it worked & kept working. One (Sony Trinitron) was so bad that nothing was visible at all on screen, even in a dark room. What kind of strange person kept using it until it reached that point who knows. Anyway the result was plenty of output on all channels, but colour tracking was lousy. That kept working for years until I tired of it.
 
> NT
 
In my experience, boosting filament delivered the shortest amount of service life of any method.
 
Back in 1981, RCA had a short run of bad HV transformers (quickly resolved). The trans was mostly conventional but had a single brown wire for CRT filament from one of the exterior terminals that went to the CRT board. As originally installed, the wire was routed between the metal frame of the trans and the chassis (metal back then).
 
If the trans was replaced and the brown wire was routed by the core and not between the frame and the chassis, the filament would pick up a few hundred milivolts by induction and add it to the normal 6.3. Several months after the trans was installed, the CRT would be shot. Fortunately, this happened in warranty. RCA quickly added a bulletin and a service note in the replacement trans that described how to properly route the filament wire.
 
Zenith in the 90s had a bunch of tubes suffer heater to cathode shorts. Most guys would thread two or three turns of bell wire around the HV trans core and feed the filaments directly (after cutting the grounded filament circuit). This would allow a full floating filament supply that wouldn't pull the cathode low even if the fil should short to the cathode. Problem was, guys would just wire so the filament looked the right color temperature but if the final voltage was much above 6.3, the tube would tire in a few months.
 
The solution was to use a TRMs meter (15K cycle AC from the fly) and adjust with winding count and/or a resistor to ensure the filament stayed at or even a bit smidge below 6.3TRMS AC. I did those and got many years out of those repairs.
 
Going back farther, we used to install hang on filament boosters in TVs with weak tubes to allow customers time to either save for a new TV or a CRT swap. Typical life of a boosted tube was two to six months.
 
I bought a new B&K 467 (still have it and two others from closed shops) and the life of the CRTs after boosting was 6 months to two years. The Sencore was supposed to be better but I never had one of those. In any case, we never sold a boosted tube of any type.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 13 updates in 3 topics

orgontube@gmail.com: Aug 29 08:05PM -0700

El sábado, 29 de noviembre de 1997, 4:00:00 (UTC-4), Andy Cuffe escribió:
> would find it very useful.
> --
> Andy Cuffe
 
 
I have that capacitor.
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 30 04:33AM -0700

> > --
> > Andy Cuffe
 
> I have that capacitor.
 
 
You should contact the OP directly. There's a small possibility that 1) he's not monitoring this group after 20 years and 2) he may not have waited 20 years to scrap that antique.
Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net>: Aug 30 01:32PM

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018 04:33:17 -0700 (PDT), John-Del wrote:
 
> You should contact the OP directly. There's a small possibility that
> 1) he's not monitoring this group after 20 years and 2) he may not
> have waited 20 years to scrap that antique.
 
Or, 3) he died.
 
 
sheesh!!!! googlegroppers!
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 30 06:47AM -0700

On Thursday, August 30, 2018 at 9:32:21 AM UTC-4, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
> > 1) he's not monitoring this group after 20 years and 2) he may not
> > have waited 20 years to scrap that antique.
 
> Or, 3) he died.
 
Ghoul...
Michael Black <mblack@pubnix.net>: Aug 30 11:14AM -0400

On Thu, 30 Aug 2018, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
 
>> have waited 20 years to scrap that antique.
 
> Or, 3) he died.
 
> sheesh!!!! googlegroppers!
 
I remember Andy Cuffe posting here, I can't remember when he last psoted.
 
But the 21 year old reply is lacking in other ways.
 
Andy was hoping for a decoder ring to figure out what the capacitor was.
He didn't say he needed one.
 
It's puzzling enough why people reply to old posts, but too many of the
late replies don't even make sense.
 
Michael
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 29 02:15PM -0700

With any OS XP or later you have to stick with the same model board, and that is even more true if it has an OEM version of Windows.
 
I quick Google finds replacements used of refurb of course from abut $ 30 to 60.
 
yeah good old 98 you could migrate, I know how. even the local PC store didn't know how, they are out of business. They were trying to sell a PC that I figure they just threw a loaded HD in, can't do that. Need to go to safe mode and start deleting all the system devices, then on reboot windows gets the drivers for the chipset out of its cabs. They didn't do that and the thing popped up with OE and all kinds of blue screens. Needless to say I didn't buy it, I doubt they would have taken ten bucks for it back then.
 
To migrate XP or later you have to have a disk, and if you want to keep all your shit, let the disk install, but into a directory you make, like Windows2 or whatever. Then copy \system, \system32 and all that into the new OS' directory and when it asks to replace existing files you go "No to all".
 
But with the same model board you don't have to do any of that - usually. Might have to anyway with certain OSes, I haven't done this to all of them as of yet.
 
Maybe it'll work if you don't find a heat sink problem. And if you do it is more likely in the chip, not the goop. It becomes a cement that is quite thermally conductive and does not have a tendency to crack until you break it off. If it is in the chip you might get away with putting a fan right on it.
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Aug 29 05:59PM -0400

In article <5864282a-16b7-41d4-82e5-1b3f17dc9106@googlegroups.com>,
jurb6006@gmail.com says...
 
> With any OS XP or later you have to stick with the same model board, and that is even more true if it has an OEM version of Windows.
 
With Windows now one might as well just chunk the whole thing, install
the programs and hope you can load in the data files for the programs
off the old hard dirve , or saved backups.
Mike S <mscir@yahoo.com>: Aug 29 05:56PM -0700

On 8/29/2018 2:59 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
 
> With Windows now one might as well just chunk the whole thing, install
> the programs and hope you can load in the data files for the programs
> off the old hard dirve , or saved backups.
 
How about a card that goes in an available slot?
 
https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-6-Port-SATA-Host-Card/dp/B002PX9BX2
root <NoEMail@home.org>: Aug 30 02:27AM

>> jurb6006@gmail.com says...
 
> How about a card that goes in an available slot?
 
> https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-6-Port-SATA-Host-Card/dp/B002PX9BX2
 
 
I made that suggestion to the owner of the MB. She declined because
she thought the MB was no longer reliable.
root <NoEMail@home.org>: Aug 30 02:28AM


> yeah good old 98 you could migrate, I know how. even the local PC store didn't know how, they are out of business. They were trying to sell a PC that I figure they just threw a loaded HD in, can't do that. Need to go to safe mode and start deleting all the system devices, then on reboot windows gets the drivers for the chipset out of its cabs. They didn't do that and the thing popped up with OE and all kinds of blue screens. Needless to say I didn't buy it, I doubt they would have taken ten bucks for it back then.
 
> To migrate XP or later you have to have a disk, and if you want to keep all your shit, let the disk install, but into a directory you make, like Windows2 or whatever. Then copy \system, \system32 and all that into the new OS' directory and when it asks to replace existing files you go "No to all".
 
> But with the same model board you don't have to do any of that - usually. Might have to anyway with certain OSes, I haven't done this to all of them as of yet.
 
The system had been running linux for the past several years.
Mike S <mscir@yahoo.com>: Aug 29 09:30PM -0700

On 8/29/2018 7:27 PM, root wrote:
 
>> https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-6-Port-SATA-Host-Card/dp/B002PX9BX2
 
> I made that suggestion to the owner of the MB. She declined because
> she thought the MB was no longer reliable.
 
If she's willing to spend the money on a reliable system then that is a
reasonable position.
makolber@yahoo.com: Aug 29 12:03PM -0700

> So bro can you let us know how did u fixed the unit, I have the same issue on the same module. Does 2.2PF 2kv SMD CAP really exist? I can only find the 50v type.
 
I think the OP said he used a leaded cap for the replacement.
I don't know where the 2.2pF value came from but that seems too small to do anything useful in that circuit.
 
I'd put in a 1000 pf 1000V leaded cap and call it a day.
 
mark
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 29 02:03PM -0700

>"I'd put in a 1000 pf 1000V leaded cap and call it a day. "
 
Depends on where it is in the circuit, a whole nF ? That is alot at some frequencies.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 9 updates in 3 topics

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Aug 28 09:45AM -0700

> if there is room, just leave the old cap in place and wire a new one in parallel.
 
> m
 
And when the old one fails short?
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 28 05:43PM

On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:07:13 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:
 
> quit in a short time.
> That 3 rd diode would probably last , but why take a chance at those
> rates.
 
And that is the very core of this issue: economics. As a hobbyist, I'm
only fixing up my own stuff and if it goes wrong again in a couple of
years owing to the NOS parts I used having failed - I don't believe they
will for a moment but simply for the sake of argument - then it's no big
deal at all for me.
It's a totally different story for professional repairers who would be
foolish indeed to install anything other than good quality new parts from
a reputable supplier. Sure it costs more, but for a pro, it's well worth
it for all sorts of reasons.
 
 
 
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Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 28 05:47PM

On Wed, 22 Aug 2018 04:03:23 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:
 
> Sounds about par for the course. Go back further to paper caps and it'd
> be a surprise to find any still working properly. And yes, micamold were
> paper caps.
 
I've got a box full of the oil & paper caps that come in cubiod cans and
they all tested fine (I have an awful lot of vintage spares here). Not so
sure about the tubular paper caps which I assume you're talking about,
though.
 
 
 
 
 
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Gunther Heiko Hagen <guntherxxx@quantserve.de>: Aug 28 05:54PM

>> ...Spend the $25 and get new parts...
> Here in Silicon Valley, it would be a lot less. 4700uF/35V and
> 5600uF/42V are both available at retail for under US$1 each.
 
Can you kindly provide a link to the supplier you refer to who's able to
offer such truly extraordinary prices?
"jfeng@my-deja.com" <jfeng@my-deja.com>: Aug 28 02:14PM -0700

On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 10:54:07 AM UTC-7, Gunther Heiko Hagen wrote:
> > 5600uF/42V are both available at retail for under US$1 each.
 
> Can you kindly provide a link to the supplier you refer to who's able to
> offer such truly extraordinary prices?
Anchor Electronics, 2040 Walsh Avenue, Santa Clara, California 95050 USA
http://www.anchor-electronics.com/
 
https://anchor-electronics.com/price-list.pdf
 
Electrolytic capacitors are on page 13.
 
I am a retail, over-the-counter customer. I do not know about their mail order policies, except the last page of the price list says "We Ship To USA & Canada Addresses Only."
Gunther Heiko Hagen <guntherxxx@quantserve.de>: Aug 28 10:59PM


> I am a retail, over-the-counter customer. I do not know about their
> mail order policies, except the last page of the price list says "We
> Ship To USA & Canada Addresses Only."
 
Very interesting.... many thanks for that.
jacobleo000@gmail.com: Aug 28 02:08PM -0700

solution electronic principles malvino 8th edition solution manual pdf
jacobleo000@gmail.com
Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Aug 28 01:41PM -0500

On Tue, 28 Aug 2018 15:39:31 +0000, root wrote:
 
> on a side and .4 inches high.
 
> Could a breakdown of the thermal contact between an old heat sink and
> the chip cause overheating of the chip.
If they work right at power up and then fail, that really DOES sound like
overheating. Yes, the thermal conductive stuff could dry out or lose
good thermal contact. The springy hold down should be fairly easy to
unhook, just play with it a bit. They should be able to be unhooked by
hand, you should not need tools.
 
Jon
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 28 12:33PM -0700

On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 11:39:34 AM UTC-4, root wrote:
> with long nosed pliers but I run the risk
> of slipping off and breaking stuff on the MB.
 
> Thanks for any info.
 
 
Before you attempt to remove anything, make sure that's where your problem is. If you can pin down the time it takes for the port to fail and it's repeatable, then keep the chip in question cool with some freeze spray (or canned duster turned upside down). You don't have to keep a frost on it just keep it from getting really hot. If the time before failure extends (or stops failing) with the chip in question cooler, then yes, you could be experiencing thermal failure.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 14 updates in 3 topics

root <NoEMail@home.org>: Aug 28 03:39PM

The sata ports on a 10 year old HP IPIEL-LA3 fail.
The machine has been acting a server for several years
and the sata ports fail a short time after power up.
 
My question is whether that failure could be due
to a failure of the heat sink function of a
chip.
 
There is a small heat sink near the sata connections
on the MB. This heat sink is held in contact with
the underlying chip by a Z shaped spring that is
held down to the MB by two inverted U shaped loops
soldered to the MB. The heat sink is finned
aluminum about 1.3 inches on a side and .4 inches
high.
 
Could a breakdown of the thermal contact between
an old heat sink and the chip cause overheating
of the chip.
 
If so, how do I release the Z spring from the
U shaped mounts? I have tried bending one end
with long nosed pliers but I run the risk
of slipping off and breaking stuff on the MB.
 
Thanks for any info.
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Aug 27 11:21AM -0700

> had it for a few years. I plugged it in when i got it and it lights up,
> eye tube works, but I never put it to use. I'd tell you the model number
> of mine, but I will have to dig it out of my storage shed.
 
It is an IT-28. Has a Power Factor test which is useful for testing
power supply caps.
 
I can make a PDF of my manual if you are desperate...however I expect it
is online somewhere.
 
John :-#)#
 
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
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"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 27 07:30PM

On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 12:30:26 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:
 
 
> I still believe in just replacing the 'bad' ones. Sometimes more harm
> can be done to the equipment by doing the reforming process if done
> wrong.
 
I don't think you've read the thread right through. These are NOS caps
out of circuit. I've now reformed them all and they pass all the
applicable tests, so I'll be installing them in place of the dead ones
later this week.
 
 
 
 
 
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Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Aug 27 03:46PM -0400

In article <pm1jgs$gmf$1@dont-email.me>, curd@notformail.com says...
> out of circuit. I've now reformed them all and they pass all the
> applicable tests, so I'll be installing them in place of the dead ones
> later this week.
 
It may be worth while on the NOS caps. I may even be tempted to give
that a try.
Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Aug 27 12:49PM -0700

Why you would put 40 year old caps into ANYTHING is beyond me. Reformed or not. They may "pass the tests" now but they will not hold up long term. Spend the $25 and get new parts. Unless, that is, you like doing things twice. Feel like risking that PCB again in 2 years?
"jfeng@my-deja.com" <jfeng@my-deja.com>: Aug 27 02:02PM -0700

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 12:50:00 PM UTC-7, Terry Schwartz wrote:
> ...Spend the $25 and get new parts...
Here in Silicon Valley, it would be a lot less. 4700uF/35V and 5600uF/42V are both available at retail for under US$1 each.
 
The diagnosis is probably correct, and the OP is committed to replacing the original caps, but I do not remember seeing a claim that this actually fixed the problem. At this price and given the concern over the long term reliability of the junque-box parts, I would tack-solder these caps to verify that this does indeed fix the problem, but I would use the new parts for the "permanent" repair. Using reformed parts would be OK if the faulty ones were unobtanium.
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Aug 27 08:56PM -0500

On 8/27/18 8:41 AM, John-Del wrote:
> I won't watch that video because I KNOW Jeff is right: reforming
> is a fool's game.
 
Like John, I do this shit for a living, and I refuse to waste my
time, or reputation, with any "crack pot" repairs.
 
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 28 09:15AM

On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 20:56:41 -0500, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
 
>> fool's game.
 
> Like John, I do this shit for a living, and I refuse to waste my time,
> or reputation, with any "crack pot" repairs.
 
If you're a professional repair tech, I can see why you would only use
new parts. But I'm just a ham; a hobbyist. And we hams have been
successfully reforming electros for many decades without any adverse
outcomes. Loads of info on the net it you care to look for it, but I'm
guessing since you're a pro you'll turn your nose up at the very thought!
 
 
 
 
 
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"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Aug 28 03:58AM -0700

And we hams have been
successfully reforming electros for many decades without any adverse
outcomes.
 
That have been reported. Hams are a parsimonious lot. And, like many of us, they will refrain from publicizing silly mistakes.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Aug 28 06:23AM -0500

On 8/28/18 4:15 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> without any adverse outcomes. Loads of info on the net it you
> care to look for it, but I'm guessing since you're a pro you'll
> turn your nose up at the very thought!
 
Hams are notoriously cheap.
And the internet is a cesspool of useless information.
 
I've been a licensed Ham for 50 years now.
You wouldn't believe some of the butchery I've encountered on
Ham radio gear. I have a phrase for it. Joe "Claw Hammer" Ham
has been here. Apparently having a ham license gives you the
ability to think you know more than any commercial engineer.
 
That being said, I've used old NOS capacitors for myself.
But I don't waste my time reforming them. They either work right
the first time they have power applied or they don't.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
makolber@yahoo.com: Aug 28 06:43AM -0700

if there is room, just leave the old cap in place and wire a new one in parallel.
 
m
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Aug 28 08:01AM -0700

> if there is room, just leave the old cap in place and wire a new one in parallel.
 
> m
 
That is only good advice if you first cut the old cap out of circuit.
Many capacitors fail by increasing their leakage or outright shorting out.
 
If the capacitor is suspect replace it.
 
John :-#(#
 
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"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Aug 28 11:07AM -0400

In article <RrWdnRKU77hVrRjGnZ2dnUU7-cfNnZ2d@giganews.com>,
jdangus@att.net says...
 
> That being said, I've used old NOS capacitors for myself.
> But I don't waste my time reforming them. They either work right
> the first time they have power applied or they don't.
 
I understand that # 40 wire was made by 2 hams arguing over a penny.
 
I have only been a ham for 45 years. I like you have seen many things
cobbled together. Have even done some of that myself. Not that I
thought I was a better engineer,but because I only had so much money to
do things. Those were projects for myself.
 
If I am doing things for myself, I may do anything to get equipment
going. If I were doing things for others, it would be with good parts.
Like the time at work an outside repair person came in to repair a 3
phase motor drive unit. He found 2 out of 3 diodes bad. I told him to
replace the 3 rd one. It may have been under stress or not. He said
they were $ 200 each. Told him it costs us $ 1000 or more per hour
while that equipment was down, so $ 200 is good insurance it will not
quit in a short time.
That 3 rd diode would probably last , but why take a chance at those
rates.
matj001@gmail.com: Aug 28 07:58AM -0700

So bro can you let us know how did u fixed the unit, I have the same issue on the same module. Does 2.2PF 2kv SMD CAP really exist? I can only find the 50v type.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 7 updates in 3 topics

oldschool@tubes.com: Aug 27 04:01AM -0500

On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 12:19:48 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:
 
>Heathkit made a great cap checker that we use to check older off the
>shelf NOS caps. Has the Magic-Eye tube and everything - except ESR.
 
>John
 
What is the model number of that Heathkit?
 
I ask because I have one of their cap testers, with an eye tube. I've
had it for a few years. I plugged it in when i got it and it lights up,
eye tube works, but I never put it to use. I'd tell you the model number
of mine, but I will have to dig it out of my storage shed.
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 27 06:41AM -0700

On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 6:43:47 AM UTC-4, Gunther Heiko Hagen wrote:
 
> > Reforming is a fool's game.
 
> Throwing away is a fool's game.
 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nat1YYNMW5A
 
I won't watch that video because I KNOW Jeff is right: reforming is a fool's game. One may get away with reforming a cap to save a couple of bucks, but I'm more concerned about the collateral damage if this reformed cap returns to its leaky state and perhaps wipes out a power transformer.
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 27 02:09PM

On Mon, 27 Aug 2018 06:41:30 -0700, John-Del wrote:
 
> bucks, but I'm more concerned about the collateral damage if this
> reformed cap returns to its leaky state and perhaps wipes out a power
> transformer.
 
No one is suggesting trying to reform leaky capacitors!
 
 
 
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Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Aug 27 12:30PM -0400

In article <pm10m4$dcc$1@dont-email.me>, curd@notformail.com says...
 
> No one is suggesting trying to reform leaky capacitors!
 
Doesn't the capacitors show the same effect as being leaky ?
 
From my understanding , the you start off at low voltage so the current
will not be very high and as the capacitor forms you up the voltage some
so the capacitor does not draw too much current.
 
My understanding is that the plates of the capacitor form a coating (for
not having a better word for it) on the plates when put under a DC
voltage.
 
I still believe in just replacing the 'bad' ones. Sometimes more harm
can be done to the equipment by doing the reforming process if done
wrong.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 26 04:50PM -0700

You might want to contact this guy on CL. He doesn't give a list but if you offer him more money he will probably try to find what you want.
 
https://cleveland.craigslist.org/ele/d/tubes-new/6668308516.html
jollymon1953@gmail.com: Aug 26 09:52AM -0700

On Wednesday, December 5, 2007 at 6:26:45 AM UTC-6, Brad wrote:
 
> Thanks in advance, Brad
 
> Before you type your password, credit card number, etc.,
> be sure there is no active keystroke logger (spyware) in your PC.
 
Like to ad a problem of my own. I'm a retired electronic tech (30+years) but have forgotten everything I knew about radios, AM/FM/SSB.
A friend has me looking at her Bose Wave, model AWr1-1W. All it puts out is an annoying loud buzz.Volume control do nothing. Even the power switch is useless. I did open it up, looked for loose connections, broken or burnt components, etc. Blew all the dust and dead bugs out.
Is it even worth repairing? Any idea as to the problem?
Thanks in advance.
jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 26 11:51AM -0700

Not sure if it will help but electrotanya has one of them.
 
https://elektrotanya.com/bose_wave_radio_series_iii.pdf/download.html
 
Now listen, when you go to that site do not click any pictures, they all lead to junk. What you want is right under the picture on the left. It says "processing" and it makes you wait a minute or something like that. The word changes to "download". Click that and nothing else.
 
It used to change to "Get manual" but apparently they decided to change it.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 1 topic

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 25 10:39AM -0700

On Saturday, August 25, 2018 at 9:32:35 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Fortunately I'm not doing this for any customer; I'm only a hobbyist
> working on my own stuff, so can easily afford to be proven wrong in this
> if such should turn out to be the case. ;-)
 
Heat and charge cycles do affect a capacitor's life, but they're not the only factors. Humans who smoke, drink, and do drugs have a shorter life than those who don't, but we all will die eventually.
 
I've had plenty of electros in stock go off value, become leaky, and go up in ESR just from sitting in a nice quiet bin. I don't install any cap without running through my Z meter, and I will toss an entire lot of caps if one is bad.
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 25 06:23PM

On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 10:39:13 -0700, John-Del wrote:
 
> Heat and charge cycles do affect a capacitor's life, but they're not the
> only factors. Humans who smoke, drink, and do drugs have a shorter life
> than those who don't, but we all will die eventually.
 
Hmmm. Not really a valid analogy!
 
> up in ESR just from sitting in a nice quiet bin. I don't install any
> cap without running through my Z meter, and I will toss an entire lot of
> caps if one is bad.
 
I managed to find 8 electros in my bin that could used in parallel to get
the equivalent of the failed ones I've removed. I've checked them all for
ESR, leakage and Capacitance and the readings I've got have come out
indistinguishable from new caps of the same value & voltage rating. I've
picked the best 6 (with the lowest ESR) and am re-forming them over the
course of this weekend.
I'll report back in due course on the success (or failure) of this method.
I certainly wouldn't want to hit them with their rated voltage straight
away after so long in limbo as that *would* be inviting disaster.
 
 
 
 
 
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John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Aug 25 12:19PM -0700

On 2018/08/25 11:23 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> I'll report back in due course on the success (or failure) of this method.
> I certainly wouldn't want to hit them with their rated voltage straight
> away after so long in limbo as that *would* be inviting disaster.
 
The final test is leakage, set the cap up with an ammeter in series and
put it on a power supply running around 75% of the rated maximum
voltage. Leakage should be very low after the cap has stabilized.
 
Here is a nice write-up:
 
https://www.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/~reese/electrolytics/
 
Heathkit made a great cap checker that we use to check older off the
shelf NOS caps. Has the Magic-Eye tube and everything - except ESR.
 
John
 
 
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 9 updates in 1 topic

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Aug 24 01:18PM -0400


>> Some styles of electrolytics may be particularly difficult to remove gracefully. The ground tabs of the FP style were often twisted for mechanical stability before soldering. And sometimes, the pins were folded over before soldering.
 
> If enough solder is removed, twisted tabs can then be twisted back. A bit of remaining solder can be ignored, it lacks enough strength to get in the way. Folded over legs can be pushed up with a soldering iron before attempting removal.
 
> NT
 
This might be a good use for Chip Quik--it's a bismuth-based solder that
drops the liquidus point of a joint low enough that gentle use of a heat
gun will melt it.
 
Cheers
 
Phil Hobbs
 
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
 
http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 24 11:33PM

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 13:18:02 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote:
 
> This might be a good use for Chip Quik--it's a bismuth-based solder that
> drops the liquidus point of a joint low enough that gentle use of a heat
> gun will melt it.
 
I had to use one of these so-called multi-tools to slice through the
pins. There was about 2mm of clearance between the bottom of the caps and
the PCB. This is one of those cutters that vibrates from side to side at
high speed and the blade had *just* enough reach to cut through the most
inaccessible pins. Double checking after removal confirmed they had all
definitely failed (3 out of 6 altogether).
 
 
 
 
 
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Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 24 11:42PM

I had 3 faulty electrolytics; all 30V/5500uF. In my spares bin I found 6
NOS (new old stock) electros of values 35V/3300uF which when stacked 2
high and wired in parallel occupy - fortunately - the same footprint as
the ones that failed.
These spares, though unused, are probably 40 years old. Will they need re-
forming gradually over 24hrs before installing?
 
 
 
 
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tabbypurr@gmail.com: Aug 24 07:06PM -0700

On Saturday, 25 August 2018 00:42:23 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:
 
> the ones that failed.
> These spares, though unused, are probably 40 years old. Will they need re-
> forming gradually over 24hrs before installing?
 
I'd get newer ones if possible. At that age they'll be dead or near to it. In apps where high ESR is acceptable they last better, but still 40 is 80 human years for lytics.
 
 
NT
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Aug 24 10:45PM -0400

In article <plpekd$ka7$1@dont-email.me>,
pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net says...
 
> This might be a good use for Chip Quik--it's a bismuth-based solder that
> drops the liquidus point of a joint low enough that gentle use of a heat
> gun will melt it.
 
Just make sure you get the type that is made to help remove solder.
They make all kinds of solder type products. Some are just tin/lead and
will not help in removal.
 
From what little I have looked at it, the removal type is very
expensive .
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Aug 24 10:04PM -0700

On 2018/08/22 2:36 PM, Ron D. wrote:
 
> You can also add a solder removal alloy form Chip-Quik.
 
> You can break off the tabs sometimes. You can cut the can sometimes. I'd use these methods at last resort.
 
> Solder with a low temperature allow after removing most of the solder and suck out is my best suggestion.
 
I too like the idea of using a small amount of Chip-Qick after first
removing as much solder as possible. This may make the solder bond so
weak that it will break out with very little force. If not, then dig out
a heat gun and secure the board - heating the area and pull on the
capacitor at the same time, I've done that by tying a weight to the item
to remove and let gravity do the work while I fart around with the heat
gun, etc.
 
John
 
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd.
MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
(604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Aug 25 12:35AM -0500

On 8/24/18 6:42 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> the ones that failed.
> These spares, though unused, are probably 40 years old. Will they need re-
> forming gradually over 24hrs before installing?
 
Reforming is a fool's game.
They either work to being with or they're bad.
That size isn't cheap, but if you buy new ones, that's the end of your
repair.
 
<https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Sprague/TVA1229?qs=%2fha2pyFadujX3auk1NrQ%2fV7hXwNYjanuW1qcIa3mLSA%3d>
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Gunther Heiko Hagen <guntherxxx@quantserve.de>: Aug 25 10:43AM

On Sat, 25 Aug 2018 00:35:34 -0500, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
 
> Reforming is a fool's game.
 
Throwing away is a fool's game.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nat1YYNMW5A
Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 25 01:32PM

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 19:06:43 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:
 
> I'd get newer ones if possible. At that age they'll be dead or near to
> it. In apps where high ESR is acceptable they last better, but still 40
> is 80 human years for lytics.
 
I've always been of the view that it's excessive heat over long periods
of operation that eventually kills 'lytics. I don't see how them being in
store, albeit for many decades, could render them useless. But we shall
see! I'm currently reforming the NOS ones I have and will report back on
the results in due course.
Fortunately I'm not doing this for any customer; I'm only a hobbyist
working on my own stuff, so can easily afford to be proven wrong in this
if such should turn out to be the case. ;-)
 
 
 
 
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