Electronics

Alterações na Política de Privacidade e nos Termos de Serviço do Google

2012-01-28T10:26:00.001-08:00

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Caro usuário do Google, Estamos substituindo mais de 60 políticas de privacidade diferentes do Google por uma política mais concisa e fácil de ler. A nova política abrange vários produtos e recursos, refletindo nosso objetivo de criar uma experiência extremamente simples e intuitiva em todos os produtos do Google. Isto é importante. Assim, dedique alguns minutos para ler as versões atualizadas da nossa Política de Privacidade e dos nossos Termos de Serviço em http://www.google.com/policies. Estas mudanças entrarão em vigor no dia 1º de março de 2012.
Uma política, uma experiência no Google

Fácil de trabalhar em vários produtos Nossa nova política reflete nosso desejo de criar uma experiência de produto simples, que ofereça o que você precisar, quando você quiser. Seja ao ler um e-mail que o faça lembrar de marcar um encontro familiar ou encontrar um vídeo favorito que você queira compartilhar, queremos que você possa utilizar com facilidade o Gmail, o Google Agenda, a ferramenta de pesquisa, o YouTube ou o que mais você quiser.	Sob medida para você Se você fizer login no Google, podemos sugerir consultas de pesquisa ou adequar os resultados da pesquisa de acordo com os interesses que você expressou no Google+, Gmail e YouTube. Assim, poderemos compreender melhor qual versão do Pink ou Jaguar você está pesquisando e oferecer esses resultados com mais rapidez.	Compartilhar e colaborar é fácil Ao postar ou criar um documento on-line, é provável que você queira que outras pessoas o vejam e contribuam. Ao lembrar as informações de contato das pessoas com quem você deseja compartilhar, facilitamos seu compartilhamento em qualquer produto ou serviço do Google com o mínimo de cliques e erros.

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Aviso de alteração A nova Política de Privacidade e os novos Termos de Serviço do entrarão em vigor em 1º de março de 2012. Se optar por continuar usando o Google assim que a alteração ocorrer, você fará isso de acordo com a nova Política de Privacidade e os Termos de Serviço. Não responda a este e-mail. Respostas enviadas para este endereço não serão respondidas. Nunca insira sua senha após abrir um link que aponte para um site não confiável. Em vez disso, acesse diretamente o site, como mail.google.com ou www.google.com/accounts. O Google nunca mandará um e-mail pedindo sua senha ou outra informação confidencial.

sci.electronics.repair - 20 new messages in 9 topics - digest

2011-11-26T00:26:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Winter Special Electric Room Heater - Buy 1 Get 1 Free + Stylish
Branded Watch
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/108bb21fe8393503?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 11:59 pm
From: ritesh

The product is Winter Special Electric Room Heater - Buy 1 Get 1 Free
http://www.naaptol.com/price/939934-Winter-Special-Electric-Room-Heater---Buy-1-Get-1-Free-+-Stylish-Branded-Watch.html.
This one is easy & safe to use also portable & light weighted with
power indicator light. With this enjoy heat & cold in the room. It is
a vertical type fan heater with OFF/ FAN/Hot I/Hot II wind. Also has
Cool Airflow for Summer Use. It has automatic control temperature for
overheat protection. It is Portable & Light Weight and is a Vertical
type fan heater. It comes in as Year End Dhamaka Offer. As one can
Shop & Win Cash Value Back Voucher Up to Rs. 1 Lakh.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Repaired Harbor Freight digital caliper
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8587e526bcdbeaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:27 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:29:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:46:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
>>>> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
>>>> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>>>
>>>a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
>>>waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
>>>1.35V in 3.25 seconds.
>
>Trying the same calc using the super-cap formula from Pg 6 of:
><http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>
>
> t = C delta V / I
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
>where:
> t: Back-up time (sec)
> C: Capacitance of Type EDL (Farads)
> V0: Applied voltage (Volts)
> V1: Cut-off voltage (Volts)
> i: Current during back-up (Amps)
> iL: Leakage current (Amps)
> R: Internal resistance (ohms) at 1 kHz
>
>For this example, I'll use a 0.1F (type F) 5.5V 100 ohm cap.
>The low end of the tolerance range might drop this to 0.08F.
>V0 = 2.0V, V1 = 1.4V, i = 15uA, iL = 2uA
>
>Plugging in:
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
> t = 0.08F[2.0V-(15uA*100ohms)-1.4V]/(15uA+2uA)
> t = 2800 sec = 47 minutes.
>Not bad.
>
>I guess the protective case that most calipers use will need a clear
>plastic window to keep it charged. Maybe another window on top of my
>toolbox.

http://www.judgetool.com/500seriessupercaliper-solarpoweredip67.aspx

http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/caliper-digital/BAP30
(only 2 digits)

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/solar-power-digital-caliper.html

Quite a number of them.....

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:06 am
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 25, 12:46 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:13:15 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
> wrote:
>
> I found this, which calculates and measures caliper battery life:
> <http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>

Yes, good site. I linked to it earlier in this thread.

> >Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
> >aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
> >regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
> >anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.
>
> True. However, switching regulators usually have some manner of load
> shedding when the supply voltage is insufficient. Below that
> threshold, the current drain is usually in nanoamps.
>
> >(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
> >It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)
>
> You're ahead of me. I've never designed anything in that low power
> class. Different world. Can you point me to a suitable (or close to
> suitable) regulator chip?

There aren't any ICs with low enough Iq, at least not that I know of.
I used discrete transistors.

> >Not so fast... The advantage of the thin-film PV panels is that
> >(appropriate) panels excel at producing power even in dim light.
> >Polycrystalline silicon panels don't.
> >The array I suggested for experimentation is thin-film for that
> >reason--so it can work in indoor light levels.
>
> Decisions, decisions, and more decisions. Polycrystaline has a cost
> advantage and is more efficient than single layer thin-film. Well, if
> I wanted to go cheap, I would use amorphous cells and mold them into
> the plastic case. For small solar cells, the cost of monocrystaline
> isn't all that much more (i.e. most of the cost is in packaging and
> handling) but won't work well with indoor lighting. So, I guess
> thin-film is the least disgusting.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_powered_calculator>
> "Solar calculators may not work well in indoor
> conditions under ambient lighting as sufficient lighting
> is not available."

You can scavenge a PV from a cheap solar calculator, as low as $1. I
also linked to a part from Goldmine-elec.com.

Polycrystalline cells put out lots more in bright light, but AFAIK,
all solar calculators (and calipers, for that matter), use the
amorphous (thin-film) cells for the low-light performance. Cost might
also be a factor.

> >> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
> >> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
> >> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>
> >a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
> >waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
> >1.35V in 3.25 seconds.
>
> I used 1000uF elsewhere in my calcs, but slipped here and used 100uF
> instead. Sorry.
>
> I think you might be a bit too conservative. 5ua leakage is high.
> Most of the spec sheets I've skimmed show 1-2ua for a typical 1F 5.5V
> super-cap.
>
> >Of the setup I suggested, the most marginal part is the itty bitty PV
> >panel (its output is on the low side). Dark leakage on my much-larger
> >10x55mm calculator panel is about 8uA @ 1.7V bias.
>
> The alternative is to lose approximately 0.3V in a series Schottky
> diode. That's about 20% of the power budget, which is probably too
> much.

I believe the panels put out a high enough overvoltage that the diode
loss doesn't matter--it's only going to get wasted in the LED shunt
regulators any how. I'll check.

MEASUREMENTS
Panel: 4-section 10x50mm panel, from a (retired) TI calculator:

Lighting 1: 1.8V (open), 18.5uA (short-circuit)
Lighting 2: 2.5V (open), 300uA (short-circuit)

[1] Modest indoor light (indirect sunlight, filtering through blinds,
measured from the ceiling bounce).
[2] 2' from 20W halogen bulb.

So, a 1n4148 drops too much for comfort. A BAT54 drops about 150mV
forward at these currents, and leaks a fraction of a uA at these
temperatures and reverse biases. Or, you could omit the diode and
just let the thing power down in the shade.

> >The supercap works wonderfully well. Charge 0.6F to 1.8V, and you've
> >got 4 hours' runtime until you reach the 1.35V battery-low display-
> >starts-blinking level. (Assuming 20uA total draw, to allow for some
> >leakage.)
>
> Ok. You've sold me. I was trying to see what could be done with
> commodity electrolytic caps. Also, super-caps fail to appreciate high
> humidity, which may become a problem.
>
>
>
> >> <http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm>
> >> From 1.37V is roughly 50% of full 3.0VDC charge. That's about 80% of
> >> 1RC time constant. 1RC is:
> >> 0.8 * 100K * 1000uF = 80 seconds
> >> That's probably enough to make a few measurements. Any longer and a
> >> super-cap will probably be needed. Picking 50% of full charge out of
> >> the hat is rather convenient, as it makes the time to charge from zero
> >> to the dropout point the same 80 seconds (yes, I'm lazy). Whether the
> >> user really wants to wait 1.5 minutes under a desk lamp for the
> >> calipers to be usable is dubious. Of course, a longer run time, means
> >> a longer charge time. For example, a 1F 5V 1ua leakage super-cap,
> >> will run the calipers for 80,000 seconds, but will also take 80,000
> >> seconds to charge.
>
> >Not 80,000s. Expose the PV to sunlight (or directly to a lamp), and
> >it'll charge (initially) >50x faster. You'd only have to do that
> >once. Indoors, the PV would keep it topped off, that's the idea.
>
> Yep. However, I screwed up. The discharge load is:
> 1.5VDC / 15uA = 100K ohms
> However, the charging ESR is much less.
> 3.0VDC / 2ma = 1.5K
> It will certainly be higher a lower illumination levels. Checking my
> junk cell under random room lighting conditions, and again scaling for
> size, I get:
> 0.333 * 0.55v / 0.02mA = 9.2K
> I don't have a small thin film panel to test. (I have 90watt panel,
> but that's a bit much for scaling to caliper size).
>
> >Alternatively, an electrolytic works, but gives a caliper that quickly
> >quits if you accidentally shadow it.
>
> Not if you do exactly like it's done with a calculator. When the cell
> is shaded, it runs on battery. A silver-oxide battery holds:
> 1.5v * 150 mA-Hr = 22.5 milliwatt-Hrs
> and will deliver most of that before the voltage drops to unusable
> levels.
>
> The super cap will deliver (very roughly):
> 1.5v * 15uA * 4Hr = 90 microwatt-Hrs
>
> >There are much smaller supercaps--0.02F--used in cellphones. That's
> >another option / compromise. Leakage should be better too.
>
> Overview of CDE super-caps:
> <http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>
> Some interesting notes on charge time and lifetime near the bottom.
>
> >> In my never humble opinion, what makes more sense is to do it exactly
> >> like the typical solar powered calculator. They all have one or two
> >> LR44 batteries inside. However, the solar cell does NOT charge the
> >> battery. When you turn the calculator on, and there's enough light to
> >> run from the solar cell, the battery is essentially disconnected. When
> >> there's not enough light to run the calculator, it runs off the
> >> battery. No waiting to charge a capacitor from the solar cell.
>
> >That uses the PV as, basically, a battery-extender. That's fine, but
> >complex--you need a micro-power switch to disconnect the battery, etc.
> >(A diode drops waayyy too much voltage.) That puts it out of the
> >realm of a simple project that can fit into the existing caliper.
>
> There has to be a chip in the calipers anyway to count pulses, run the
> display, and deal with the push buttons. Adding a power management
> feature does not add much real estate or complexity. However, if
> you're thinking of a retrofit, I suspect something could be done with
> a separate switcher chip.

If we're designing it from scratch, we just wouldn't use so darn much
power to start with. Then, a PV panel and a capacitor are all you
need.

Switcher chips just don't do well on 20uA power input.

> >> If you're into high tech, there are various energy scavenging devices
> >> that can also power the calipers.
> >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_harvesting>
> >> With only 22.5 microwatts required, it might be possible to power the
> >> device with a wind up key, piezo pressure, body heat, kinetic magnetic
> >> generator, etc. I kinda like the idea of a wind up caliper.
>
> >Windup would be fun--steampunk.
>
> In the late 1960's, I designed and built a paging receiver, that
> produced the message output on a 1/4" wide roll of paper tape. Battery
> power to the mechanics for such a portable device was impossible. So,
> I went to a wind up coil spring mechanism. I've been somewhat of a
> fan of spring power ever since.
>
> >The "real" solution is to design the caliper to draw less current in
> >the first place, like Mitutoyo and Starrett. If you've done that,
> >solar-powering is a snap, but then, if the battery lasts years, you
> >don't need solar power, do you?
>
> Agreed. It would be like a digital watch, which typically has a 10
> year battery life. However, the solar cell is still a problem because
> of the dark current (reverse leakage). An isolating Schottky diode
> can reduce that, but then the solar cell would need to be about 20%
> larger to compensate for the added loss.
>
> Another problem is that it would be no fun. Windup calipers offer a
> far more entertaining problem to solve.

Windup calipers--that's cool!

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:22 am
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 25, 1:29 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:46:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
> >>> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
> >>> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>
> >>a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
> >>waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
> >>1.35V in 3.25 seconds.
>
> Trying the same calc using the super-cap formula from Pg 6 of:
> <http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>
>
> t = C delta V / I
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
> where:
> t: Back-up time (sec)
> C: Capacitance of Type EDL (Farads)
> V0: Applied voltage (Volts)
> V1: Cut-off voltage (Volts)
> i: Current during back-up (Amps)
> iL: Leakage current (Amps)
> R: Internal resistance (ohms) at 1 kHz
>
> For this example, I'll use a 0.1F (type F) 5.5V 100 ohm cap.
> The low end of the tolerance range might drop this to 0.08F.
> V0 = 2.0V, V1 = 1.4V, i = 15uA, iL = 2uA

That cap is 14x10mm, pretty humungous. You don't need 5.5v, so the
'EN' type, at 7x2mm and 0.2F might be a better fit.

> Plugging in:
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
> t = 0.08F[2.0V-(15uA*100ohms)-1.4V]/(15uA+2uA)
> t = 2800 sec = 47 minutes.
> Not bad.

I calculated the caliper as being a constant-current drain on the
super cap, then applied Q=CV. Actual current drain drops a tad with
falling Vdd, so my approximation is probably slightly conservative.

> I guess the protective case that most calipers use will need a clear
> plastic window to keep it charged. Maybe another window on top of my
> toolbox.

Yep. Another retro-fit possibility is to fit a supercap in the
caliper, and a lithium-AA (1.65v) in the caliper case that recharges
the supercap when not in use.

That'll last forever (about 10years on the 'AA'), runs for hours per
charge, fits the case easily, and doesn't need a PV or any fancy
circuitry. The PAS920 I linked before costs 5/$1 surplus, from
Goldmine-elec.com.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 2:31 pm
From: "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:06:57 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

>On Nov 25, 12:46 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:13:15 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> I found this, which calculates and measures caliper battery life:
>> <http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>
>
>Yes, good site. I linked to it earlier in this thread.
>
>> >Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
>> >aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
>> >regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
>> >anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.
>>
>> True. However, switching regulators usually have some manner of load
>> shedding when the supply voltage is insufficient. Below that
>> threshold, the current drain is usually in nanoamps.
>>
>> >(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
>> >It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)
>>
>> You're ahead of me. I've never designed anything in that low power
>> class. Different world. Can you point me to a suitable (or close to
>> suitable) regulator chip?
>
>There aren't any ICs with low enough Iq, at least not that I know of.
>I used discrete transistors.

There are some pretty good ones, designed for USB applications, but I don't
thing they're quite good enough for this. The TPS6205x Iq is around 5uA to and
in shutdown less than 2uA. You're looking for something an order of magnitude
better than this?

<...>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 9:28 pm
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 25, 5:31 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:06:57 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >On Nov 25, 12:46 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:13:15 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
> >> wrote:
>
> >> I found this, which calculates and measures caliper battery life:
> >> <http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>
>
> >Yes, good site. I linked to it earlier in this thread.
>
> >> >Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
> >> >aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
> >> >regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
> >> >anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.
>
> >> True. However, switching regulators usually have some manner of load
> >> shedding when the supply voltage is insufficient. Below that
> >> threshold, the current drain is usually in nanoamps.
>
> >> >(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
> >> >It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)
>
> >> You're ahead of me. I've never designed anything in that low power
> >> class. Different world. Can you point me to a suitable (or close to
> >> suitable) regulator chip?
>
> >There aren't any ICs with low enough Iq, at least not that I know of.
> >I used discrete transistors.
>
> There are some pretty good ones, designed for USB applications, but I don't
> thing they're quite good enough for this. The TPS6205x Iq is around 5uA to and
> in shutdown less than 2uA. You're looking for something an order of magnitude
> better than this?
>
> <...>

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps62050.pdf

From the graph on the front page, it looks like n = ~35% @ 15uA
output. That's actually very good. Thanks.

My designs were mostly boost topology, so there may be ICs I didn't
consider (plus new ICs I haven't seen). I did some nutty stuff, like
nano-amp oscillators and micro-amp switchers that were roughly 75%
efficient.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Garmin vs Tomtom
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/05bb6bddf1b8fc41?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 3:40 am
From: Bruce Esquibel

hrhofmann@att.net <hrhofmann@att.net> wrote:

> I see advertisements for Garmin and TomTom GPS units, with lifetime
> map updates and same size 5" screens for the same prices. Does anyone
> have any experience with both units that can state a preference. Also,
> I wonder how the companies behind the units are set financially, a
> lifetime update is meaningless if the company goes out of business.

Which is something to reckon with.

Keep in mind the usefulness of stand-alone gps units is in a decline with
the advent of the cell phones and tables that have gps in them. That and
even economy cars have some built-in option these days, although expensive.

I doubt if either company is going to tank soon, but it's sort of like being
in the horseshoe business with Ford building the model T plant down the
road.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 4:01 am
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/25/2011 5:40 AM, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
> Keep in mind the usefulness of stand-alone gps units is in a decline with
> the advent of the cell phones and tables that have gps in them.

That's like saying screwdrivers and knives are in decline because of
Swiss Army knives.

> I doubt if either company is going to tank soon, but it's sort of like being
> in the horseshoe business with Ford building the model T plant down the
> road.

Stand along GPS/mapping units aren't in the same category as buggy
whips. They certainly do a better job at being GPS units then the
try to do everything under the sun iPads.

Jeff

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:15 am
From: Tim Schwartz

Good morning all,

I've got a Garmin 1490T (T= traffic report receiver) which I'm quite
happy with. That said, any of the 3 major brands (Garmin, TomTom or
Magellian) are likely to be just fine. I would have a look at the user
interface, and see which you like best.

I would consider any of these a 5-7 year device at best. At some point
the internal battery will die, or some other failure will occur, or
you'll just loose the darn thing. Or the new ones will be so much
better that you'll want one.

I've found the dedicated navigation unit far superior to ones on
phones, and much more economical than ones built into cars, especially
if you have several cars in your family.

As another point against built in units, Auto manufacturers charge
obscene amounts for updates. I had a friend whose dealer quoted $700
for the new DVD set for his 2005 car. Almost as offensive as charging
$500 for a USB interface, which likely cost them about $6.00. ($99
radios have them built in.)

Regards,
Tim Schwartz
Bristol Electronics

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sharp GF 990G ghetto blaster
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/87b2eef7dbd95b2e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 6:20 am
From: "N_Cook"

Back working again with all 7 bands replaced with new silicone rubber bands.
I wonder how long they will last. I read last week that silicone rubber is
not as tolerant of cyclic loading, which dynamic use of this material I
suppose is so, especially around the smaller drive bobbins

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple tone control?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/eb3fafaa60fb8246?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:25 pm
From: DaveC

A general question:

Should pots used in the audio tone filter circuits be audio (log) taper? Or
does this apply only to volume pots?

Thanks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:30 pm
From: spam@spam.com (Don Pearce)

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:25:37 -0800, DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:

>A general question:
>
>Should pots used in the audio tone filter circuits be audio (log) taper? Or
>does this apply only to volume pots?
>
>Thanks.

Linear

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Curious longlived battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5a954e0d64a72bc5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:36 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

ca 1995 I bought some 7yr diver watches from Woolworth. WHen they doed I
tried to replace the battery but the entire watch was sealed in silicone and
could not be salvaged. I had tied one of those watched to the handlebar of my
bicycle, face towards the sky. It still runs. Is it because the battery
remained flat? It is kinda miraculous!

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Aerial wifi antennae
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7919aac51f31b136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:40 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to force
people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
computer TV card. My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.
Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
cable?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:53 pm
From: "Charlie"

<vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com> wrote in message
news:japg2d$goa$4@reader1.panix.com...
> Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
> move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to
> force
> people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
> also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
> computer TV card. My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.
> Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
> cable?
>
> - = -
> Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
> http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
> [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
> [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

Google is your friend.

I built the one here http://www.tvantennaplans.com/ when digital
transmission was becoming more popular but was not yet he only game around.

I hooked it up to my 32" Vizio and was able to receive all the networks and
a few other providers.
I am in the flat land of Florida and with the antenna on the floor and about
4' above ground level.
It is fairly directional but one day when cable was out I was the only one
in the neighborhood watching he tube.

Charlie

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:56 pm
From: "Charlie"

"Charlie" <left@thestation.com> wrote in message
news:japgpn$1lg$1@dont-email.me...
>
> <vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com> wrote in message
> news:japg2d$goa$4@reader1.panix.com...
>> Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
>> move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to
>> force
>> people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
>> also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
>> computer TV card. My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.
>> Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
>> cable?
>>
>> - = -
>> Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus,
>> BioStrategist
>> http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
>> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
>> [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
>> [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime
>> Bimbos]
>
> Google is your friend.
>
> I built the one here http://www.tvantennaplans.com/ when digital
> transmission was becoming more popular but was not yet he only game
> around.
>
> I hooked it up to my 32" Vizio and was able to receive all the networks
> and a few other providers.
> I am in the flat land of Florida and with the antenna on the floor and
> about 4' above ground level.
> It is fairly directional but one day when cable was out I was the only one
> in the neighborhood watching he tube.
>
> Charlie

BTW I did not use the reflectors shown near the end

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:48 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 01:40:29 +0000 (UTC),
vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

>Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
>move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to force
>people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
>also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
>computer TV card.

Get an outside antenna.
There's no such thing as an HDTV antenna. They're VHF, UHF, or both.
The amplifier goes near the antenna on the roof.
Use RG-6/u coax, not twinlead.
Try not to fall off the roof.

>My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.

No luck required. Indoor antennas only work in strong signal areas.
You've supplied no numbers or location, so you only get general
advice.

>Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
>cable?

I pay for DirecTV satellite. The local OTA (over the air) broadcast
programming is awful. I receive HDTV OTA fairly well, but only with a
rotator and self designed antenna and amplifier.

Antenna aiming:
<http://www.tvfool.com>

Antenna comparisons:
<http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html>

The basics of HDTV:
<http://www.hdtvprimer.com>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Panasonic NV-J22 video output to Archos 5
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0420837a4eaefa79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 6:44 pm
From: myfathersson

On Nov 24, 6:52 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 24, 12:43 am, myfathersson <licensedtoqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 6:04 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 23, 11:04 pm, myfathersson <licensedtoqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I am hoping this question isnt too non-specific or the answer too
> > > > obvious but I just shlepped this Panasonic multi-system TV which I
> > > > originally brought from the US to UK back again to record lots of PAL
> > > > videos to the Archos. Now however there doesnt seem to be any video
> > > > output at all.
>
> > > > I can see the sound on the bar graphic input on the Archos but the
> > > > Archos doesnt report any input signal. All I am doing is to out put
> > > > the signal from the video out of the Panasonic to the video in on the
> > > > Archos DVR station.
>
> > > I'm confused by your post. Are you talking about a Panasonic multi
> > > standard tv, or a Panasonic vhs video recorder?
> > > -B
>
> > Sorry about the confusion
>
> > Not sure how it got caused
>
> > The Panasonic NV-J22 is a VHS video cassette recorder. I am trying to
> > transfer the contents of VHS cassettes onto the Archos 5
>
> we need to narrow this down. First ascertain that the vhs is
> outputting video. For all we know, the heads might be dirty. Try
> connecting it to a normal tv set. It should sync down to 50hz pal
> frame rate, and I imagine you'd get a black and white picture....
> -b

OK I think you are right: I will have to find some sort of converter
for the European output cable to a coax connector and try that output
into a TV. The Archos may well not report ANY input unless the pic is
perfect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nakamichi CD Player 3 - needs to heat before it's able to read disc
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7fae55556abb29a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:51 pm
From:

Hi,

I have a Nakamichi CD Player 3, circa 1992, that is a terrific player, but
requires to be warmed up for about 1.5 hours before it is able to read the
disc; After this point, then it works fine.

I am not sure why the warm up needed, but it is drag when you have to build
in this lead-time into your CD listening.

Any thoughts as to why this is happening and steps to remedy will be most
appreciated..

Thanks

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 8:04 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

<andrewsave@hotmail.com>
>
> I have a Nakamichi CD Player 3, circa 1992, that is a terrific player, but
> requires to be warmed up for about 1.5 hours before it is able to read the
> disc; After this point, then it works fine.
>
> I am not sure why the warm up needed, but it is drag when you have to
> build in this lead-time into your CD listening.
>
> Any thoughts as to why this is happening and steps to remedy will be most
> appreciated..

** Might be sticky lubricant on moving parts.

Do not tackle it yourself - take it to an experienced audio tech.

.... Phil

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair - 11 new messages in 6 topics - digest

2011-11-25T00:28:00.001-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Panasonic NV-J22 video output to Archos 5 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0420837a4eaefa79?hl=en
* Garmin vs Tomtom - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/05bb6bddf1b8fc41?hl=en
* Philips TV -- dual schottky - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b3d88bd825144880?hl=en
* Repaired Harbor Freight digital caliper - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8587e526bcdbeaf?hl=en
* Editing a pdf file ... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7a871e294322579?hl=en
* Winter Special Electric Room Heater - Buy 1 Get 1 Free + Stylish Branded
Watch - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/108bb21fe8393503?hl=en

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 3:52 pm
From: b

On Nov 24, 12:43 am, myfathersson <licensedtoqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 23, 6:04 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 11:04 pm, myfathersson <licensedtoqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > I am hoping this question isnt too non-specific or the answer too
> > > obvious but I just shlepped this Panasonic multi-system TV which I
> > > originally brought from the US to UK back again to record lots of PAL
> > > videos to the Archos. Now however there doesnt seem to be any video
> > > output at all.
>
> > > I can see the sound on the bar graphic input on the Archos but the
> > > Archos doesnt report any input signal. All I am doing is to out put
> > > the signal from the video out of the Panasonic to the video in on the
> > > Archos DVR station.
>
> > I'm confused by your post. Are you talking about a Panasonic multi
> > standard tv, or a Panasonic vhs video recorder?
> > -B
>
> Sorry about the confusion
>
> Not sure how it got caused
>
> The Panasonic NV-J22 is a VHS video cassette recorder. I am trying to
> transfer the contents of VHS cassettes onto the Archos 5

we need to narrow this down. First ascertain that the vhs is
outputting video. For all we know, the heads might be dirty. Try
connecting it to a normal tv set. It should sync down to 50hz pal
frame rate, and I imagine you'd get a black and white picture....
-b

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 4:06 pm
From: Archon

On 11/24/2011 11:25 AM, hrhofmann@att.net wrote:
> I see advertisements for Garmin and TomTom GPS units, with lifetime
> map updates and same size 5" screens for the same prices. Does anyone
> have any experience with both units that can state a preference. Also,
> I wonder how the companies behind the units are set financially, a
> lifetime update is meaningless if the company goes out of business.
I bought the Magellan Roadmate with free lifetime map updates plus a
bigger screen to replace a TomTom that wanted $80 for a map update. (The
TomTom was excellent by the way). First thing I noticed was the Magellan
does not have the "avoid toll road option", second thing I noticed it
doesn't know how to get anywhere! It tried to make a 20 minute detour on
freeways to get to my house which was 1/2 mile away,(most use of
freeways), on the "least use of freeways" option it took me along
country roads for an hour. Totally useless. there seems to be no logic
to the routes it chooses. In NJ I hate toll roads so that is a
significant requirement for me.
JC

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 6:50 pm
From: Rich Webb

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:39:19 +0000, Peter Hill
<peter.usenet1@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 15:01:47 -0500, Rich Webb
><bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:31:10 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
>><grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>One of the things I like about Garmin is the optional "beanbag" dash mount,
>>>which for most (but not all) users works much better than the windshield
>>>suction cup. (I don't know if there's a comparable mount for the TomTom.)
>>
>>WRT mounts, I'm sold on the "sit on the dash with non-slip feet" style.
>>Keeps in reach for bluetooth (phone) or to check the traffic maps.
>
>Wouldn't do for me. My dash has a grain effect so suction feet don't
>work.
>
>It also has a sloping dash. What holds the bean bag in place?

Here also, the usual pebble-grain vinyl. Mine is an older model of this
<https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=63953> that I used with an
older Garmin. The feet bottoms have the soft, high-friction stuff that
looks sort of like velvet; I believe that a similar material is used as
a drawer liner. No suction, just friction. It *will* slide off given
enough acceleration or, I suppose, if I tried jumping the Snake River
Canyon but in normal driving it just sits in place quite nicely.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Philips TV -- dual schottky
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b3d88bd825144880?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 5:51 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"mkr5000" <mikerbgr@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3111226.55.1321981106144.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqie15...
> Model number is 19pfl3403 (a real dog I understand) -- anyway, not getting
> 5.2v but around 4.
>
> I'm not a repair guy but electronics is my life and looks like it may be
> the dual schottky rectifier -- good AC voltage out of the transformer.
>
> part is a 60v 10a dual -- wonder if a 45v part will suffice? (it's what I
> have).
>
> after all they're using a 100v schottky for the 13v supply so it sounds
> like it'll work. THANKS if you know off hand.

It's a bit unusual for diodes - even Schottkies - to go 'weird'. Commonly,
they fail short circuit. I would have thought that a far more likely cause
of your low voltage, is the filter cap following the rectifier. If that goes
open or high ESR, you will get a low reading of the DC volts that you're
expecting, the reason being that if you look at the voltage across the cap
with a 'scope, it will be hashy not pure DC, so the average that the meter
tries to make of it, will be lower. It is very very common for filter caps
following Schottky diodes in SMPs, to fail in this way.

Arfa

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 6:13 pm
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 24, 5:20 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 06:45:46 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
> wrote:
>
> >The max. solar panel voltage doesn't matter--the LED regulator clamps
> >the solar panel voltage, taking care of that.
>
> Yeah, but shunt regulators and leaky super-caps are not really
> appropriate for micropower devices. They waste power.

Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.

(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)

> In a previous message, James Arthur measured:
> Drain: 13.5uA (off), 14.5uA (on)
> Battery low threshold (blinking display): 1.37V
> Lowest operating voltage: 1.01V
>
> Nominal voltage on a silver oxide battery is 1.5V. Therefore, the
> operating power is:
> 1.5VDC * 15uA = 22.5 microwatts.
> From the standpoint of a resistive load, that's about:
> 1.5VDC / 15 uA = 100K ohms
>
> The first question is whether a small solar cell will product 22.5
> microwatts. Testing a somewhat oversized polycrystaline cell that I
> found in my junk box (quality unknown), it produces 3.0VDC at 6ma with
> a short circuit load (my milliamps guesser). My guess(tm) is that
> this cell is about three times as big as will conveniently fit on the
> calipers, so I'll just cut the current to 2ma . Delivered power with
> my desk lamp is 6 milliwatts. Yeah, it will a 22.5 microwatt load.

Not so fast... The advantage of the thin-film PV panels is that
(appropriate) panels excel at producing power even in dim light.
Polycrystalline silicon panels don't.

The array I suggested for experimentation is thin-film for that
reason--so it can work in indoor light levels.

> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
> electrolytic cap run the calipers?

a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
1.35V in 3.25 seconds.

Of the setup I suggested, the most marginal part is the itty bitty PV
panel (its output is on the low side). Dark leakage on my much-larger
10x55mm calculator panel is about 8uA @ 1.7V bias.

The supercap works wonderfully well. Charge 0.6F to 1.8V, and you've
got 4 hours' runtime until you reach the 1.35V battery-low display-
starts-blinking level. (Assuming 20uA total draw, to allow for some
leakage.)

> <http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm>
> From 1.37V is roughly 50% of full 3.0VDC charge. That's about 80% of
> 1RC time constant. 1RC is:
> 0.8 * 100K * 1000uF = 80 seconds
> That's probably enough to make a few measurements. Any longer and a
> super-cap will probably be needed. Picking 50% of full charge out of
> the hat is rather convenient, as it makes the time to charge from zero
> to the dropout point the same 80 seconds (yes, I'm lazy). Whether the
> user really wants to wait 1.5 minutes under a desk lamp for the
> calipers to be usable is dubious. Of course, a longer run time, means
> a longer charge time. For example, a 1F 5V 1ua leakage super-cap,
> will run the calipers for 80,000 seconds, but will also take 80,000
> seconds to charge.

Not 80,000s. Expose the PV to sunlight (or directly to a lamp), and
it'll charge (initially) >50x faster. You'd only have to do that
once. Indoors, the PV would keep it topped off, that's the idea.

Alternatively, an electrolytic works, but gives a caliper that quickly
quits if you accidentally shadow it.

There are much smaller supercaps--0.02F--used in cellphones. That's
another option / compromise. Leakage should be better too.

> There are low voltage DC-DC boost/buck switching regulator chips
> available that can tolerate a wide range of input voltages, and
> deliver a constant 1.5VDC.
>
> In my never humble opinion, what makes more sense is to do it exactly
> like the typical solar powered calculator. They all have one or two
> LR44 batteries inside. However, the solar cell does NOT charge the
> battery. When you turn the calculator on, and there's enough light to
> run from the solar cell, the battery is essentially disconnected. When
> there's not enough light to run the calculator, it runs off the
> battery. No waiting to charge a capacitor from the solar cell.

That uses the PV as, basically, a battery-extender. That's fine, but
complex--you need a micro-power switch to disconnect the battery, etc.
(A diode drops waayyy too much voltage.) That puts it out of the
realm of a simple project that can fit into the existing caliper.

> If you're into high tech, there are various energy scavenging devices
> that can also power the calipers.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_harvesting>
> With only 22.5 microwatts required, it might be possible to power the
> device with a wind up key, piezo pressure, body heat, kinetic magnetic
> generator, etc. I kinda like the idea of a wind up caliper.

Windup would be fun--steampunk.

The "real" solution is to design the caliper to draw less current in
the first place, like Mitutoyo and Starrett. If you've done that,
solar-powering is a snap, but then, if the battery lasts years, you
don't need solar power, do you?

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 7:16 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"

On 2011-11-23, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:
> Winston wrote:
>> Bob Engelhardt wrote:
>>> The wiki ckt has a current-limiting resistor in series with the voltage
>>> source. Not so the posted ckt.
>
>> It *is* in the posted circuit.
>> Sort of. :)
>>
>> As James mentions, the internal resistance of the PV
>> cell is the current-limiting resistor.
>
> I meant the capacitor voltage source. Is its internal resistance a
> sufficient current limiter? I'm not familiar with super caps, but the
> common ones that I am familiar with will supply huge currents, momentarily.

The capacitor gets its voltage from the PV cell. Assuming that
you don't put a switch between the LED and the cap (there is none shown
in the schematic), the cap will never charge high enough to be able to
damage the LED, because the LED will have already clamped the maximum
voltage based on the current limit of the PV cell. Not sure what would
happen with the PV cell close to an arc welding process like a TIG -- it
depends on the internal resistance of the PV cell and the peak voltage
which the PV cell can produce with such excessive illumination.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnicholsBP@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 9:46 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:13:15 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com
wrote:

I found this, which calculates and measures caliper battery life:
<http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>

>Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
>aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
>regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
>anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.

True. However, switching regulators usually have some manner of load
shedding when the supply voltage is insufficient. Below that
threshold, the current drain is usually in nanoamps.

>(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
>It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)

You're ahead of me. I've never designed anything in that low power
class. Different world. Can you point me to a suitable (or close to
suitable) regulator chip?

>Not so fast... The advantage of the thin-film PV panels is that
>(appropriate) panels excel at producing power even in dim light.
>Polycrystalline silicon panels don't.
>The array I suggested for experimentation is thin-film for that
>reason--so it can work in indoor light levels.

Decisions, decisions, and more decisions. Polycrystaline has a cost
advantage and is more efficient than single layer thin-film. Well, if
I wanted to go cheap, I would use amorphous cells and mold them into
the plastic case. For small solar cells, the cost of monocrystaline
isn't all that much more (i.e. most of the cost is in packaging and
handling) but won't work well with indoor lighting. So, I guess
thin-film is the least disgusting.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_powered_calculator>
"Solar calculators may not work well in indoor
conditions under ambient lighting as sufficient lighting
is not available."

>> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
>> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
>> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>
>a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
>waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
>1.35V in 3.25 seconds.

I used 1000uF elsewhere in my calcs, but slipped here and used 100uF
instead. Sorry.

I think you might be a bit too conservative. 5ua leakage is high.
Most of the spec sheets I've skimmed show 1-2ua for a typical 1F 5.5V
super-cap.

>Of the setup I suggested, the most marginal part is the itty bitty PV
>panel (its output is on the low side). Dark leakage on my much-larger
>10x55mm calculator panel is about 8uA @ 1.7V bias.

The alternative is to lose approximately 0.3V in a series Schottky
diode. That's about 20% of the power budget, which is probably too
much.

>The supercap works wonderfully well. Charge 0.6F to 1.8V, and you've
>got 4 hours' runtime until you reach the 1.35V battery-low display-
>starts-blinking level. (Assuming 20uA total draw, to allow for some
>leakage.)

Ok. You've sold me. I was trying to see what could be done with
commodity electrolytic caps. Also, super-caps fail to appreciate high
humidity, which may become a problem.

>> <http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm>
>> From 1.37V is roughly 50% of full 3.0VDC charge. That's about 80% of
>> 1RC time constant. 1RC is:
>> 0.8 * 100K * 1000uF = 80 seconds
>> That's probably enough to make a few measurements. Any longer and a
>> super-cap will probably be needed. Picking 50% of full charge out of
>> the hat is rather convenient, as it makes the time to charge from zero
>> to the dropout point the same 80 seconds (yes, I'm lazy). Whether the
>> user really wants to wait 1.5 minutes under a desk lamp for the
>> calipers to be usable is dubious. Of course, a longer run time, means
>> a longer charge time. For example, a 1F 5V 1ua leakage super-cap,
>> will run the calipers for 80,000 seconds, but will also take 80,000
>> seconds to charge.
>
>Not 80,000s. Expose the PV to sunlight (or directly to a lamp), and
>it'll charge (initially) >50x faster. You'd only have to do that
>once. Indoors, the PV would keep it topped off, that's the idea.

Yep. However, I screwed up. The discharge load is:
1.5VDC / 15uA = 100K ohms
However, the charging ESR is much less.
3.0VDC / 2ma = 1.5K
It will certainly be higher a lower illumination levels. Checking my
junk cell under random room lighting conditions, and again scaling for
size, I get:
0.333 * 0.55v / 0.02mA = 9.2K
I don't have a small thin film panel to test. (I have 90watt panel,
but that's a bit much for scaling to caliper size).

>Alternatively, an electrolytic works, but gives a caliper that quickly
>quits if you accidentally shadow it.

Not if you do exactly like it's done with a calculator. When the cell
is shaded, it runs on battery. A silver-oxide battery holds:
1.5v * 150 mA-Hr = 22.5 milliwatt-Hrs
and will deliver most of that before the voltage drops to unusable
levels.

The super cap will deliver (very roughly):
1.5v * 15uA * 4Hr = 90 microwatt-Hrs

>There are much smaller supercaps--0.02F--used in cellphones. That's
>another option / compromise. Leakage should be better too.

Overview of CDE super-caps:
<http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>
Some interesting notes on charge time and lifetime near the bottom.

>> In my never humble opinion, what makes more sense is to do it exactly
>> like the typical solar powered calculator. They all have one or two
>> LR44 batteries inside. However, the solar cell does NOT charge the
>> battery. When you turn the calculator on, and there's enough light to
>> run from the solar cell, the battery is essentially disconnected. When
>> there's not enough light to run the calculator, it runs off the
>> battery. No waiting to charge a capacitor from the solar cell.
>
>That uses the PV as, basically, a battery-extender. That's fine, but
>complex--you need a micro-power switch to disconnect the battery, etc.
>(A diode drops waayyy too much voltage.) That puts it out of the
>realm of a simple project that can fit into the existing caliper.

There has to be a chip in the calipers anyway to count pulses, run the
display, and deal with the push buttons. Adding a power management
feature does not add much real estate or complexity. However, if
you're thinking of a retrofit, I suspect something could be done with
a separate switcher chip.

>> If you're into high tech, there are various energy scavenging devices
>> that can also power the calipers.
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_harvesting>
>> With only 22.5 microwatts required, it might be possible to power the
>> device with a wind up key, piezo pressure, body heat, kinetic magnetic
>> generator, etc. I kinda like the idea of a wind up caliper.
>
>Windup would be fun--steampunk.

In the late 1960's, I designed and built a paging receiver, that
produced the message output on a 1/4" wide roll of paper tape. Battery
power to the mechanics for such a portable device was impossible. So,
I went to a wind up coil spring mechanism. I've been somewhat of a
fan of spring power ever since.

>The "real" solution is to design the caliper to draw less current in
>the first place, like Mitutoyo and Starrett. If you've done that,
>solar-powering is a snap, but then, if the battery lasts years, you
>don't need solar power, do you?

Agreed. It would be like a digital watch, which typically has a 10
year battery life. However, the solar cell is still a problem because
of the dark current (reverse leakage). An isolating Schottky diode
can reduce that, but then the solar cell would need to be about 20%
larger to compensate for the added loss.

Another problem is that it would be no fun. Windup calipers offer a
far more entertaining problem to solve.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 10:29 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:46:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>>> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
>>> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
>>> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>>
>>a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
>>waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
>>1.35V in 3.25 seconds.

Trying the same calc using the super-cap formula from Pg 6 of:
<http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>

t = C delta V / I
t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
where:
t: Back-up time (sec)
C: Capacitance of Type EDL (Farads)
V0: Applied voltage (Volts)
V1: Cut-off voltage (Volts)
i: Current during back-up (Amps)
iL: Leakage current (Amps)
R: Internal resistance (ohms) at 1 kHz

For this example, I'll use a 0.1F (type F) 5.5V 100 ohm cap.
The low end of the tolerance range might drop this to 0.08F.
V0 = 2.0V, V1 = 1.4V, i = 15uA, iL = 2uA

Plugging in:
t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
t = 0.08F[2.0V-(15uA*100ohms)-1.4V]/(15uA+2uA)
t = 2800 sec = 47 minutes.
Not bad.

I guess the protective case that most calipers use will need a clear
plastic window to keep it charged. Maybe another window on top of my
toolbox.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Editing a pdf file ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7a871e294322579?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 8:02 pm
From: Mike Tomlinson

En el artículo <kbDyq.13007$%K3.12035@newsfe01.ams2>, Arfa Daily
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> escribió:

>I've actually now managed to do the basic thing that I wanted. I ended up
>very carefully zooming the image (that was hard to do precisely, as the zoom
>bar wanted to 'snap' in 25% increments

There are a couple of good alternative PDF readers. I use Foxit Reader,
which allows you to set a zoom down to three decimal places. Free.

>Some jobs are
>just too difficult, frustrating and time consuming to do on a computer

Amen to that :-)

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 9:54 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 01:47:58 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>I've actually now managed to do the basic thing that I wanted. I ended up
>very carefully zooming the image (that was hard to do precisely, as the zoom
>bar wanted to 'snap' in 25% increments and didn't allow actual values to be
>typed in) until the bits that I didn't want were off the top and bottom of
>the screen, and the bit that I did want was centred. I then did a "print"
>and then "current view". Finally, I used the "Tile large sheets" option with
>the 'composite view' selected, and then used the print zoom to find the
>point where it just jumped up to two pages, and left an even border around
>the edge.

Reading between the lines, it appears that all you need is an
efficient way of extracting a JPG out of a PDF file. No big deal:
<http://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-viewer>
The PDF-Xchange Viewer includes a *free* PDF to JPG converter. I'm
usually lazy and just convert the entire document, which extracts a
large number of JPG's, most of which I discard. There are other PDF
to JPG converters, but this is the only free one that I found which
actually worked.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 11:59 pm
From: ritesh

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sci.electronics.repair - 3 new messages in 1 topic - digest

2011-11-22T00:31:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Simple tone control? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/eb3fafaa60fb8246?hl=en

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 10:07 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeffrey Angus"

> You're links are broken/segmented.
> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
> Does work...

** Not from outside the USA it don't.

And the UK one is the same.

How boring of them.

... Phil

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 10:22 pm
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/22/2011 12:07 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "Jeffrey Angus"
>
>> You're links are broken/segmented.
>> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>> Does work...
>
>
> ** Not from outside the USA it don't.
>
> And the UK one is the same.

Well that sucks, what's the point of that?

Jeff-1.0

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 10:31 pm
From: spam@spam.com (Don Pearce)

On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 00:22:29 -0600, Jeffrey Angus <grendelair@aim.com>
wrote:

>On 11/22/2011 12:07 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
>> "Jeffrey Angus"
>>
>>> You're links are broken/segmented.
>>> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>>> Does work...
>>
>>
>> ** Not from outside the USA it don't.
>>
>> And the UK one is the same.
>
>Well that sucks, what's the point of that?
>
>Jeff-1.0

Just need a proxy within the USA - always useful to have one available
for every major country.

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sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

2011-11-21T22:08:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Akai AD-6300 cassette deck spares - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/af166d967be0e683?hl=en
* Simple tone control? - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/eb3fafaa60fb8246?hl=en
* hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/de14f30159a3e4ad?hl=en
* Repaired Harbor Freight digital caliper - 11 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8587e526bcdbeaf?hl=en
* A basic question about electric heaters - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0af41d850cac4033?hl=en
* Editing a pdf file ... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7a871e294322579?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Akai AD-6300 cassette deck spares
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/af166d967be0e683?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 3:26 pm
From: Adrian C

On 21/11/2011 22:55, Franc Zabkar wrote:
> I'm about to throw away an Akai AD-6300 cassette deck. If anyone needs
> spares, let me know soon.
>
> Here is a photo (not mine):
> http://d.imagehost.org/0885/DSC04693.jpg
>

Made the hairs on the back off my neck stand up. That was our first
cassette deck around 1976.

In later years I was mean to it. Left it unloved in an old damp shed at
the bottom of the garden where it caught rust and died.

--
Adrian C

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 5:34 pm
From: Trevor Wilson

On 11/22/2011 9:55 AM, Franc Zabkar wrote:
> I'm about to throw away an Akai AD-6300 cassette deck. If anyone needs
> spares, let me know soon.
>
> Here is a photo (not mine):
> http://d.imagehost.org/0885/DSC04693.jpg
>
> - Franc Zabkar

**That would be an AIWA, Franc. And, sadly, nothing of any real value in
there. The later, more upmarket models were more interesting, with
meters that have two complete movements in the same housing. That was
about all you could be bothered salvaging.

Nonetheless, thanks for thinking of us.

PS: Kinda reminds me of a situation about 10 years ago, when a Proton CD
player landed on the bench. The only fault was the display. Two months
earlier, I had thrown out the same model machine, due to a faulty and
uneconomical to replace, laser mech. The display was fine. If only I'd
kept it for spares....

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 3:50 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"William Sommerwanker = Fuckwit Jerkoff "

>
> This looks a lot like the kind of tone controls mass-market
> consumer-electronics equipment has been using for the past 60 years.

** So totally proven to be the RIGHT kind for domestic audio.

> I don't know /exactly/ what your plans are, but the 1kHz corner frequency
> is
> about the worst possible if you're trying to correct errors in the
> speakers
> you're designing.

** Tone control are mostly used to alter the frequency balance of the
program material.

That is why they have knobs on the front panel......

> Unless you want a "tone control" that produces shrill treble and boomy
> bass,
> you need to move the treble corner up, and the bass down.

** The type of circuit shown has variable bass corner frequency and variable
slope treble.

> Furthermore, it would make sense to design the speakers first, and see
> what
> sort of correction they need.

** False assumption that they need any or that it is the main issue.

> so the best tone
> control would be one that supplies small amounts of boost and cut at the
> frequency extremes.

** Shame about deficiencies in the program itself.

> Unless you're looking for lots of boom and sizzle.

** Or have program lacking in both lows and highs - like many u-tube vids.

> There are plenty of op-amps with a wider voltage range -- the 5534 and
> TL-074 come to mind, but these are rather old designs.

** Both those are wrong for the job, the OP need a dual op-amp - so an
NE5532 or a TL072.

Both these are still the most widely used audio op-amps in the world.

> I'm sure someone will
> be able to recommend something newer.

** Only an audiophool wanker would.

And look who did.

.... Phil

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 5:09 pm
From: NT

On Nov 21, 10:36 pm, DaveC <inva...@invalid.net> wrote:
> > It would really help to explain what you mean by that. 6" drivers in
> > wood cabs plus a 12" sub? Or 2.5" pc speakers plus a 4" sub? Very
> > different animals.
>
> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
> US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>

nothing there

> The video is pure marketing.
>
> I don't have these speakers, but I do have the original SoundSticks I which
> are USB input devices (no analog input). I've converted them to analog input.
>
> Looking for an op-amp-based filter circuit. Anybody have a favorite you can
> link to? Or put up an ASCII or Spice diagram?
>
> Thanks.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:04 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

Phil, learn something about audio.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:14 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"William Sommerwanker = LYING PIG "

> Phil, learn something about audio.

** ROTFL !!

What an absurd irony.

... Phil

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 9:05 pm
From: DaveC

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM

> nothing there

Yes there is. Maybe you have to copy & paste the URL, but it is valid.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 9:31 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"DaveC"

http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM

>> nothing there
>
> Yes there is. Maybe you have to copy & paste the URL, but it is valid.

** The link leads to a home page and nothing else.

... Phil

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 9:47 pm
From: UnsteadyKen

NT wrote...

> > <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
> > US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>
> nothing there
Nothing here either.

I think the HK site redirects if it doesn't think you are in the US.

UK version here
http://uk.harmankardon.com/harman-kardon-product-detail-uk/soundsticks-
iii.html

Recommended by the News Of the World:-)

--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 10:02 pm
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/21/2011 11:47 PM, UnsteadyKen wrote:
>
> NT wrote...
>
>>> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-
>>> US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
>>
>> nothing there
> Nothing here either.
>
> I think the HK site redirects if it doesn't think you are in the US.
>
> UK version here
> http://uk.harmankardon.com/harman-kardon-product-detail-uk/soundsticks-
> iii.html
>
> Recommended by the News Of the World:-)
>

You're links are broken/segmented.
<http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
Does work...

"Praised for its stunning design, the harman kardon® SoundSticks® II
speakers and subwoofer system became a milestone in harman kardon
history when it became part of the permanent collection at New York
City's Museum of Modern Art (MoMA). Improving on its famous sibling's
pop-culture appeal, the SoundSticks III system is all that and much
more. As a three-piece, 2.1-channel multimedia sound system, SoundSticks
III brings a new level of excitement to music, games and movies to your
home – with its exceptional sound clarity, enhanced color scheme and
bare minimum of wiring. Beyond its eye-catching appeal, SoundSticks III
continues to be incredibly capable – with 40 watts of dazzling
amplification, a down-firing powered subwoofer, eight full-range
transducers and compatibility with all sorts of multimedia devices. As
the sublime sequel to a prized performer, SoundSticks III is performance
art at its finest."

Only $169

Jeff-1.0

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 10:07 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeffrey Angus"

> You're links are broken/segmented.
> <http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=SOUNDSTICKS3AM>
> Does work...

** Not from outside the USA it don't.

And the UK one is the same.

How boring of them.

... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/de14f30159a3e4ad?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 4:19 pm
From: Sjouke Burry

saranya saran <saranyamathaiyan@gmail.com> wrote in news:3286d677-661a-
4cf7-bc8b-ac4ae1fb7385@w29g2000pri.googlegroups.com:

> Hi friends see this webpage

please vanish under your bridge, troll.....

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 4:32 pm
From: "P E Schoen"

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:aa0kc750e2tsad3028cqpm25aer8aus1mn@4ax.com...

> Many 99c stores sell a flatpack of 5-10 standard 357 batteries
> for a dollar.

I'm not sure I'd trust them in something any more expensive than a
flashlight. I have seen them corrode and leak. And the only thing the 99
cent store might be willing to do is give you another pack or refund your
dollar.

> So I use 2 batteries a year. Or even 3. Im still way ahead of the
> curve when SR44s are $3 each

I just purchased four genuine SR44s from an eBay store, for $3, including
first class mail shipping. The same company also has larger packs for quite
a bit less.
http://stores.ebay.com/RL-batterydepot?_trksid=p4340.l2563

I also measured the current draw on my calipers, and it's about 12.5 uA
either on or off. It seems to spike a bit when turned on. (So do I :)

They are specified at about 175 mAhr, according to http://www.sr44.com/, so
lifetime should be about 14000 hrs or 1.5 years, but the spec is for a low
voltage of 1.3V, which is probably below the limit of the electronics in the
caliper, at least for the low battery indicator.

Here is a handy list of the various sizes with different chemistry and their
mA-hr capacities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes

Paul
www.pstech-inc.com

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 4:41 pm
From: amdx

Harbor Freight Has the 6" dial Caliper on sale 11/24

http://www.harborfreight.com/preview-thanksgiving.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4711a&utm_source=1003

Mikek

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 4:49 pm
From: Jamie

amdx wrote:
> Harbor Freight Has the 6" dial Caliper on sale 11/24
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/preview-thanksgiving.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4711a&utm_source=1003
>
>
> Mikek
Nice, I like the metal cutting saw they have there just off to the right..

Think I'll do a stop in for that.

Jamie

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 5:22 pm
From: amdx

On 11/21/2011 6:49 PM, Jamie wrote:
> amdx wrote:
>> Harbor Freight Has the 6" dial Caliper on sale 11/24
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/preview-thanksgiving.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=4711a&utm_source=1003
>>
>>
>> Mikek
> Nice, I like the metal cutting saw they have there just off to the right..
>
> Think I'll do a stop in for that.
>
> Jamie

Do note, it is pneumatic.
Fine if your setup for it.
Mikek

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 5:41 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"

On 2011-11-21, Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote:
>
><dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:07d0ac35-1cf3-4ed1-ba85-cd32f2f6ea0b@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
>> On Nov 20, 8:45 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:47:25 -0800 (PST), "Ron D." wrote:
>>
>>> >I have a cheap Caliper too and it recently went flakey.

[ ... ]

>>> same size. Where you can have problems is that the SR44/SR1154
>>> silver
>>> oxide cells come in the same package. They have about 50% more
>>> capacity and a much flatter discharge curve. Some of the cheapo
>>> calipers crap out below about 1.4V. The alkaline battery has plenty
>>> of capacity left at 1.4V, but the caliper doesn't want to run. If
>>> your caliper cames with a silver-oxide cell, it should probably use
>>> silver oxide batteries. If it came with alkaline and has a short
>>> battery life, it might be worthwhile trying silver-oxide. If you're
>>> ambitious, it might be useful to run the caliper off a bench power
>>> supply and check how low a voltage will work.
>>
>> I just measured a Harbor Freight (Chinese) 8-incher.
>>
>> Drain: 13.5uA (off), 14.5uA (on)
>> Battery low threshold (blinking display): 1.37V
>> Lowest operating voltage: 1.01V
>>
>> So, it's clearly made for silver-oxide cells. The battery low
>> threshold is set appropriately for a silver oxide cell (e.g. SR-44).
>>
>> It's a lousy threshold for using alkalines--they're barely broken in
>> at that voltage.
>>
>> 14.5uA means a year from a silver oxide cell--that's not horrible.

[ ... ]

> Why bother including an on off switch?

It is an off switch to turn the *display* (only) back on. They
sometimes make it also turn the display back off to make people feel
better. :-)

The auto-turn-off time of the display is usually good enough.

Enjoy,
DoN.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:08 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"

On 2011-11-21, dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com <dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 9:55 pm, "Martin Riddle" <martin_...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> <dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:07d0ac35-1cf3-4ed1-ba85-cd32f2f6ea0b@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>

>> > I just measured a Harbor Freight (Chinese) 8-incher.
>>
>> > Drain: 13.5uA (off), 14.5uA (on)
>> > Battery low threshold (blinking display): 1.37V
>> > Lowest operating voltage: 1.01V

[ ... ]

>> Why bother including an on off switch?
>
> It's really not worth it for 1uA.
>
> If I designed these, I'd shoot for 2uA active draw, like the
> Mitutoyos, and set the battery low threshold at 1.1V (for alkalines).
> The battery consumption is the biggest fault with these. Apart from
> that, they're impressive.
>
> I sometimes think about wiring up a "AAA" or solar cell and just
> forgetting it, but for $0.50 a year it's not worth the trouble.

Actually -- there *are* some "solar powered" ones -- by Mitutoyo
IIRC. They would probably be excellent used daily in a well-illuminated
shop. In my shop, often dark for days at a time, until a project lures
me there, the replaceable batteries are a better choice.

I did recently get an auto-darkening welding hood from Harbor
Freight which is solar powered, and based on what I have read about them
dying if not used regularly, I've put mine on a folding workstool facing
out the window so it sees daylight to maintain the charge. I'll proably
eventually have to perform surgery and replace the rechargeable cells in
there. There is a temptation to provide a connection for an AC-powered
trickle charger so I can store it more conveniently. What would be
particularly nice would be an induction coupled charger like those for
electric toothbrushes. Just put it on a stand and expect it to be fully
charged when I come back.

If the charge is good enough to work on the first strike, it
should work fine for the rest of the day, because it will be getting a
charge boost from the arc -- close enough to vigorous sunlight. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:15 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"

On 2011-11-22, P E Schoen <paul@pstech-inc.com> wrote:
> "Gunner Asch" wrote in message
> news:aa0kc750e2tsad3028cqpm25aer8aus1mn@4ax.com...
>
>> Many 99c stores sell a flatpack of 5-10 standard 357 batteries
>> for a dollar.
>
> I'm not sure I'd trust them in something any more expensive than a
> flashlight.

Well ... I've paid more for *some* flashlights (typically
multi-LED ones) than for *some* digital calipers (import from a
hamfest), so it is a toss-up there. :-)

> I have seen them corrode and leak. And the only thing the 99
> cent store might be willing to do is give you another pack or refund your
> dollar.

If you are going to leave the calipers for more than a week,
pull the cell(s) and store them separately -- perhaps in a small zip-loc
baggie, so they don't damage anything else when leaking.

FWIW I've not seen the Silver Oxide ("SR" prefix) ones leak in anything
in which I have used them.

Enjoy,
DoN.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:32 pm
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 21, 9:08 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <BPdnichol...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> On 2011-11-21, dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com <dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 20, 9:55 pm, "Martin Riddle" <martin_...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> <dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:07d0ac35-1cf3-4ed1-ba85-cd32f2f6ea0b@p2g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > I just measured a Harbor Freight (Chinese) 8-incher.
>
> >> > Drain: 13.5uA (off), 14.5uA (on)
> >> > Battery low threshold (blinking display): 1.37V
> >> > Lowest operating voltage: 1.01V
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> Why bother including an on off switch?
>
> > It's really not worth it for 1uA.
>
> > If I designed these, I'd shoot for 2uA active draw, like the
> > Mitutoyos, and set the battery low threshold at 1.1V (for alkalines).
> > The battery consumption is the biggest fault with these. Apart from
> > that, they're impressive.
>
> > I sometimes think about wiring up a "AAA" or solar cell and just
> > forgetting it, but for $0.50 a year it's not worth the trouble.
>
> Actually -- there *are* some "solar powered" ones -- by Mitutoyo
> IIRC. They would probably be excellent used daily in a well-illuminated
> shop.

I saw a solar-powered Mitutoyo at a flea market and was intrigued, but
resisted. Something about having a glass window on a machine tool
close to all that hard steel just didn't sit well--it brought up
memories of scratched and broken watch crystals.

OTOH, I paid $10 for most of my HF calipers. Those you can take
chances with. Using the 8x25mm solar panel from a $1 calculator, a
super capacitor for storage, and an LED as a regulator diode was my
notion. $2 in parts, $500 labor ;-).

I fitted one to the lathe carriage--best thing I ever did.
Removable. I fitted another to the tailstock ram. With it you can
bore to 0.002" depth every time without even trying. Magic.

> In my shop, often dark for days at a time, until a project lures
> me there, the replaceable batteries are a better choice.
>
> I did recently get an auto-darkening welding hood from Harbor
> Freight which is solar powered, and based on what I have read about them
> dying if not used regularly, I've put mine on a folding workstool facing
> out the window so it sees daylight to maintain the charge. I'll proably
> eventually have to perform surgery and replace the rechargeable cells in
> there. There is a temptation to provide a connection for an AC-powered
> trickle charger so I can store it more conveniently. What would be
> particularly nice would be an induction coupled charger like those for
> electric toothbrushes. Just put it on a stand and expect it to be fully
> charged when I come back.
>
> If the charge is good enough to work on the first strike, it
> should work fine for the rest of the day, because it will be getting a
> charge boost from the arc -- close enough to vigorous sunlight. :-)

Sounds like a LiIon cell. If so, those can't be allowed to go dead,
as you've surmised.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:34 pm
From: "P E Schoen"

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
news:slrnjclve8.op3.BPdnicholsBP@Katana.d-and-d.com...

> On 2011-11-21, Martin Riddle <martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote:

>> Why bother including an on off switch?

> It is an off switch to turn the *display* (only) back on. They
> sometimes make it also turn the display back off to make
> people feel better. :-)

> The auto-turn-off time of the display is usually good enough.

Still, there's no benefit to turning off the display, in this case. Might
just as well have it display "OFF".

I bought a high-end headlamp from Coleman a few years ago
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/detail.asp?CategoryID=1116&product_id=2000000265#
and every time I went to use it the batteries (4 AA) were dead. I measured
the current draw when turned off, and it was something like 300 uA, which
should have provided 8000 hours (almost one year) for the 2500 mA-hr
batteries. But I was getting only a few weeks before finding them exhausted.
Maybe the current increased as the battery voltage dropped. I usually used
rechargeable NiMH and they might have been old and tired. But, still, there
is no reason for 300 uA standby current on a flashlight. Even if it had a
microcontroller, a typical PIC18F2420 draws only 11 uA while running, and
only 100 nanoamps in sleep mode! So, I just pop out one of the batteries
while I'm not using it. There's no easy place to install a switch.

Paul
www.muttleydog.com

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 6:55 pm
From: "P E Schoen"

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
news:slrnjcm1ee.op3.BPdnicholsBP@Katana.d-and-d.com...

> Well ... I've paid more for *some* flashlights (typically
> multi-LED ones) than for *some* digital calipers (import
> from a hamfest), so it is a toss-up there. :-)

Yes, the Coleman headlamp I mentioned elsewhere lists for $50, and I paid
probably $20 on clearance, so I agree, in that case. But most flashlights
with coin cells are pretty much disposable.

> If you are going to leave the calipers for more than a week,
> pull the cell(s) and store them separately -- perhaps in a small
> zip-loc baggie, so they don't damage anything else when leaking.

That's what I am going to do. There is a cutout in the foam of the caliper
case for a spare. I also put the other three cells in their original
packaging in there. I plan to use the calipers more now that I can depend on
them (and know how to fix them). Usually I don't do much precision
machining, and I have a cheap plastic dial caliper that is good to about
0.01" and is immune to humidity and most abuse.

> FWIW I've not seen the Silver Oxide ("SR" prefix) ones leak in
> anything in which I have used them.

I think the original cell in the HF caliper was actually alkaline, and
fortunately I had removed it (but kept in the case) when I had tried to fix
them a few years ago with no joy. When I opened it recently, the cell was
rusty and there was some liquid that had oozed out. I've also had some NiMH
AA cells that leaked. But probably the silver cells are better made and the
chemicals may be less aggressive. Now that I've found an on-line source with
good pricing I think I'll stick with them, although it's tempting to get the
Chinese copies for 10 cents each.

Paul

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 7:21 pm
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 21, 9:34 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@pstech-inc.com> wrote:
> "DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
>
> news:slrnjclve8.op3.BPdnicholsBP@Katana.d-and-d.com...
>
> > On 2011-11-21, Martin Riddle <martin_...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Why bother including an on off switch?
> > It is an off switch to turn the *display* (only) back on. They
> > sometimes make it also turn the display back off to make
> > people feel better. :-)
> > The auto-turn-off time of the display is usually good enough.
>
> Still, there's no benefit to turning off the display, in this case. Might
> just as well have it display "OFF".
>
> I bought a high-end headlamp from Coleman a few years agohttp://www.coleman.com/coleman/ColemanCom/detail.asp?CategoryID=1116&...
> and every time I went to use it the batteries (4 AA) were dead. I measured
> the current draw when turned off, and it was something like 300 uA, which
> should have provided 8000 hours (almost one year) for the 2500 mA-hr
> batteries. But I was getting only a few weeks before finding them exhausted.
> Maybe the current increased as the battery voltage dropped. I usually used
> rechargeable NiMH and they might have been old and tired. But, still, there
> is no reason for 300 uA standby current on a flashlight. Even if it had a
> microcontroller, a typical PIC18F2420 draws only 11 uA while running, and
> only 100 nanoamps in sleep mode! So, I just pop out one of the batteries
> while I'm not using it. There's no easy place to install a switch.
>
> Paulwww.muttleydog.com

I measured some ordinary NiMH cells' self-discharge, 1,600mAH, @ 1.6mA
IIRC. The high-capacity rechargeables are wickedly worse. I've got
one set that won't hold a charge much over two weeks, no kidding,
even brand-new. Self-discharge current on the order of 5-7mA.

There are low-self-discharge NiMH that hold a charge much longer,
sometimes up to a year. Highly recommended. Ray-O-Vac Hybrids, Sanyo
Eneloop, and Duracell has some too.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A basic question about electric heaters
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0af41d850cac4033?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 5:29 pm
From: gregz

<PlainBill@yawhoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 10:10:12 -0800 (PST), spamtrap1888
> <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 21, 7:55 am, e...@whidbey.com wrote:
>>> My neighbor was telling me that his oil filled radiator type space
>>> heater is more efficient than the kind with a fan and heating coils. I
>>> told him that there is no difference, that all the electricity
>>> consumed by the heater is converted to heat in the room. Even the
>>> sound made by the fan vibrates the air which heats it up a little. So
>>> if both were operated in a perfectly insulated room and consumed the
>>> same amount of electricity the rooms would heat up the same amount.
>>> Now I'm wondering about real world situations. Some frequencies of
>>> light pass through walls, some through windows, some both, and some
>>> neither. So I suppose the best heater is one that glows in a frequency
>>> range that is completely absorbed by objects (including people) in the
>>> room and reflected by the walls and windows. Are my asumptions
>>> correct? I hope so. Otherwise I'll need to call my neighbor so he can
>>> serve me a little crow.
>>> Eric
>>
>> There are two kinds of electric space heaters, convection and radiant.
>> Convection heaters (attempt to) heat the entire room, radiant heaters
>> heat objects, including you. The oil filled radiator is a convection
>> heater, as are the heating coil plus fan heaters.
>>
>> Comparing convection heaters to convection heaters, there is no
>> difference in efficiency, 100% of the electrical energy does turn into
>> heat. The Department of Energy prefers the oil filled units because
>> their thermal mass makes them a more constant heat source. Their
>> heating elements cycle less, for what it's worth.
>>
>> But, radiant heaters should have more apparent efficiency in that they
>> require less energy to heat just you instead of the entire room plus
>> you in it.
>>
>> http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12600
>
> Correct, if you ignore one minor detail. Since a radiant heater warms
> you, rather than the air, you will always feel colder on the side away
> from the heater.
>
> PlainBill

I don't know what the efficiency of radiant conversion is, but radiant
heaters give out plenty of heated air also. Some also have fans.

Greg

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 21 2011 5:47 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Mike Tomlinson" <mike@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:3B$uksDdHXyOFwFL@jasper.org.uk...
> En el artículo <8w9yq.5618$NG1.5173@newsfe11.ams2>, Arfa Daily
> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> escribió:
>
>>I used to have a fully registered version of Acrobat, and I'm sure that
>>allowed you to do it, but I am no longer able to use it, because when I
>>upgraded my OS to Win 7, it was no longer compatible, and there was no
>>route
>>within Adobe, to upgrade an existing installation.
>
> So run your existing version of Acrobat on an XP virtual machine within
> Win7. It's called XP Compatability Mode or something like that.
>
> --
> (\_/)
> (='.'=)
> (")_(")

I actually don't have it any more. It was a fully registered version on a
machine that I bought from an outfit that I did work for, when they packed
it all in. The machine was a properly registered XP Pro one, and all updates
to the Acrobat and OS were done on a regular basis. Then the machine was
'upgraded' to Win 7, and when I came to reinstall the Acrobat, it wouldn't
have any of it. I'm sure I tried to install it under a compatibility mode as
well, but it was having none of it. When I went to the Adobe site, expecting
to be able to download some patch-pack, as it was a registered version, I
discovered that there was no route to upgrading - only buying a new version,
as Jeff has said. I didn't use the creation side of things enough to justify
the expense, so I ended up just letting it go, and downloading the free
Reader 9. The original drive that both the built application, and the
original installation files was on, has since failed, and I don't think that
I now have it anywhere else.

I've actually now managed to do the basic thing that I wanted. I ended up
very carefully zooming the image (that was hard to do precisely, as the zoom
bar wanted to 'snap' in 25% increments and didn't allow actual values to be
typed in) until the bits that I didn't want were off the top and bottom of
the screen, and the bit that I did want was centred. I then did a "print"
and then "current view". Finally, I used the "Tile large sheets" option with
the 'composite view' selected, and then used the print zoom to find the
point where it just jumped up to two pages, and left an even border around
the edge.

When it was printed off and joined, I made my notes by hand, with a
draftsman's fine tip pen, which is good enough for this job. Some jobs are
just too difficult, frustrating and time consuming to do on a computer, and
this, I think, is one of them. Whilst cutting and pasting and manipulating
and juggling images onto sheets, and annotating in pretty bubbles with
perfect text, looks all very pretty and professional, the end result that
I've achieved is just as practical from a repair-use point of view, and took
probably a quarter or less of the time, ignoring of course, the time wasted
on trying to find software that would do it ...

Arfa

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sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 3 topics - digest

2011-11-20T17:29:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Repaired Harbor Freight digital caliper - 13 messages, 11 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8587e526bcdbeaf?hl=en
* Editing a pdf file ... - 9 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7a871e294322579?hl=en
* Promote your Business with Direct Marketing. - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ac8922a39e639941?hl=en

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:55 am
From: Bob Engelhardt

Jamie wrote:
> I have the HF digital calipers and I need to pull the battery when not
> in use other wise, it'll be dead next time I need it. It seems to drain
> quite fast.
...

I have one & the battery lasts quite a while (doesn't get used much).
Maybe a different model. Or a different batch. Or different spots on
the quality curve <G>.

Bob

== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:47 am
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 19, 10:01 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@pstech-inc.com> wrote:
> I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
> problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank. It
> seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought it was a
> bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.
>
> So I took it apart, which meant peeling off a foil backing to expose four
> small phillips head screws, which removed the electronics module, and then I
> removed the PC board with four even smaller phillips screws. The LCD display
> connects to the board with a flexible conductive strip, which relies on
> pressure to maintain contact. I cleaned it and the mating contacts on the
> PCB, reassembled it, and it now works fine!
>
> My house is always very humid and I think that's what caused the problem.
> It's hell on all my tools. Everything is rusty or mildewed.
>
> It's quite interesting to see the mechanism that is used to make
> measurements. There is an array of PCB traces that are aligned with an array
> of stripes along the length of the caliper, and (I assume) these create
> pulses that are counted as the head is moved. But it also needs to know
> which way the head is being moved. Probably something like a quadrature
> encoder as used for rotary position sensing. I'll have to look it up.
>
> Paul

http://www.biotele.com/digital_caliper.htm

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 11:04 am
From: "Martin Riddle"

"amdx" <amdx@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
news:4756b$4ec8f55d$18ec6dd7$12472@KNOLOGY.NET...
> On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
>> I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
>> problems with one of them especially, where the display will go
>> blank.
>> It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I
>> thought
>> it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't
>> work.
>>
>
> That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
> about batteries or electronics.
> (Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)
>
> Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
> $9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
> calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
> Mikek

I have a vernier Calipe. I never need to set the dial, cause there isn't
one ;)

Cheers

== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 11:09 am
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 20, 11:55 am, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelha...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Jamie wrote:
> > I have the HF digital calipers and I need to pull the battery when not
> > in use other wise, it'll be dead next time I need it. It seems to drain
> > quite fast.
>
> ...
>
> I have one & the battery lasts quite a while (doesn't get used much).
> Maybe a different model. Or a different batch. Or different spots on
> the quality curve <G>.
>
> Bob

Silver oxide batteries cost a bunch more, but last twice as long.

Full details: http://www.fliptronics.com/tip0006.html

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:03 pm
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:29:39 -0500, "Dave Plumpe"
<lastname@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Not only do they remember where Zero is, they even keep track of any
>movement that occurs while they're turned off. Smart little devils.
>
>I find myself more & more reaching for the digital ones for the ease of
>swapping between inches & millimeters.
>
>-Dave

As do I.

My Mitytoyo digital mics..never could figure out how they work
though..Ive got one thats had the same battery in it for 4 yrs so
far..still reading just fine and its always displaying whenever I open
the box

Gunner

== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:06 pm
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:23:32 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu>
wrote:

>I discovered the hard way that the little cube electronic levels also eat
>batteries, and they require a diet of the larger more expensive coin
>cells (2032?).

Just a heads up..a lot of the local 99c stores sell a card with 3 to 5
of the 2032s for ....99c

I buy a couple cards every year just to have them on hand

Gunner

== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:26 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Nov 19, 9:01 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@pstech-inc.com> wrote:
> I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
> problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank. It
> seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought it was a
> bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.
>
> So I took it apart, which meant peeling off a foil backing to expose four
> small phillips head screws, which removed the electronics module, and then I
> removed the PC board with four even smaller phillips screws. The LCD display
> connects to the board with a flexible conductive strip, which relies on
> pressure to maintain contact. I cleaned it and the mating contacts on the
> PCB, reassembled it, and it now works fine!
>
> My house is always very humid and I think that's what caused the problem.
> It's hell on all my tools. Everything is rusty or mildewed.
>
> It's quite interesting to see the mechanism that is used to make
> measurements. There is an array of PCB traces that are aligned with an array
> of stripes along the length of the caliper, and (I assume) these create
> pulses that are counted as the head is moved. But it also needs to know
> which way the head is being moved. Probably something like a quadrature
> encoder as used for rotary position sensing. I'll have to look it up.
>
> Paul

Interesting..it sounds like you may have a serious mold problem.

It can destroy a house if left untended.

TMT

== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 2:36 pm
From: mike

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 08:29:39 -0500, "Dave Plumpe"
> <lastname@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Not only do they remember where Zero is, they even keep track of any
>> movement that occurs while they're turned off. Smart little devils.
>>
>> I find myself more & more reaching for the digital ones for the ease of
>> swapping between inches & millimeters.
>>
>> -Dave
>
> As do I.
>
> My Mitytoyo digital mics..never could figure out how they work
> though..Ive got one thats had the same battery in it for 4 yrs so
> far..still reading just fine and its always displaying whenever I open
> the box
>
> Gunner

Same here.
I bought several of the Harbor Freight ones back when they were on sale.
They're always dead. I have to take the battery out when not in use.
PITA, but I'm gonna have to replace it anyway if I leave it in.

My Mitutoyo has been going strong for years on the same battery.

== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 3:14 pm
From: "P E Schoen"

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message news:jaaun0$a9m$1@dont-email.me...

> Cleaned, how? Trichlor? WD? Cotton swab?

I used rubbing alcohol, which I also use for defluxing PCBs. I also scraped
the surface and dried it with a paper towel.

> Have you considered something to reduce the humidity,
> like vent fan, central AC, or dehumidifier?

I've lived with the problem for a long time. I have two houses, adjacent to
each other, and the lower levels have a stone foundations built into a hill.
It is worse in the house where I have my workshop and storage. And the
houses are in a low-lying area under lots of trees and the water table is
close to the surface. I've also had leaks in the foundation as well as the
roof so moisture has gotten in. Some time ago I basically gutted both houses
and replaced the old rotten frame studs and mud sills with new
pressure-treated lumber, but did not add vapor barrier, insulation, or new
drywall, until recently, and only partially. Being below grade, it's like
being in a cave, and it's often so cold that a dehumidifier freezes up. And
without insulation and vapor barrier, it's almost futile to try.

You can see my houses, and some of the work I've done (and some of my
tools), on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/PaulAndMuttley#p/u/50/oxKL2p8O3EM
(there are also part 2 and part 3)

Paul
www.muttleydog.com

== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 3:47 pm
From: gregz

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 22:19:11 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if Cramolin/DeOxit would work on the conductive strip?
>
> <http://siber-sonic.com/electronics/caig.html>
> Sorta. The original Cramolin contained about 5% oleic acid, which is
> great for removing surface oxidation, but is also mildly corrosive to
> copper. The current version is DeOxit from Caig Labs. It comes in an
> amazing variety of forms, and is allegedly non-corrosive.
> <http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/.f>
> The MSDS data shows the active ingredients as a "trade secret". Oh
> well.

I never have been able to get much visible effect of so called corrosion
removers. Oleic acid probably being best, but supposedly the cramolin
chemist also had input on making deoxit. On a short term test I can visibly
wipe off oxide with an alcohol swipe, being just as effective. Most of the
removing is mechanical in nature, and any liquid helps.

Greg

== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 4:47 pm
From: "Ron D."

I have a cheap Caliper too and it recently went flakey.

I did my standard trick: Remove battery. Short battery contacts:
Insert new battery. Worked.

Mine uses an LR44 and you HAVE TO use an LR44, not a substitute
battery that you can get a Radio Shack.
Mechanically they are not the same.

== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 4:57 pm
From: Rich Webb

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:47:58 +0000 (UTC), gregz <zekor@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 22:19:11 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if Cramolin/DeOxit would work on the conductive strip?
>>
>> <http://siber-sonic.com/electronics/caig.html>
>> Sorta. The original Cramolin contained about 5% oleic acid, which is
>> great for removing surface oxidation, but is also mildly corrosive to
>> copper. The current version is DeOxit from Caig Labs. It comes in an
>> amazing variety of forms, and is allegedly non-corrosive.
>> <http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/.f>
>> The MSDS data shows the active ingredients as a "trade secret". Oh
>> well.
>
>
>I never have been able to get much visible effect of so called corrosion
>removers. Oleic acid probably being best, but supposedly the cramolin
>chemist also had input on making deoxit. On a short term test I can visibly
>wipe off oxide with an alcohol swipe, being just as effective. Most of the
>removing is mechanical in nature, and any liquid helps.

I tried a paste of cream of tartar from the spice rack in the kitchen on
the battery terminals on a long forgotten remote control that had spewed
its battery guts to make a nasty, green mess of the copper-nickel
strips. Worked amazingly well, better than anything else I've tried for
that particular problem. YMMV, of course.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:28 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 23:47:58 +0000 (UTC), gregz <zekor@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I never have been able to get much visible effect of so called corrosion
>removers. Oleic acid probably being best, but supposedly the cramolin
>chemist also had input on making deoxit. On a short term test I can visibly
>wipe off oxide with an alcohol swipe, being just as effective. Most of the
>removing is mechanical in nature, and any liquid helps.

The oleic acid is only about 5% of the contact cleaner. Over a period
of time, it will help remove any oxide deposits. However, at such a
low concentration, it should not be expected to dissolve a substantial
oxide accumulation. Basically, any detergent will do as well if you
can live with the residue.

More on Cramolin:
<http://www.pitt.edu/~szekeres/caigcram.htm>
<http://siber-sonic.com/electronics/caig.html>

Cleaning brass clocks. Note the section on oleic acid.
<http://www.abbeyclock.com/brass2.html>
The oleic acid therefore has two functions: to remove
the oxide layer from the metals and to act as a soap
to remove the dirt and oils. The cleaning solution
has about 90% ammonia solution with about 5% oleic
acid and 5% acetone added, thereby leaving plenty
of excess ammonia molecules to keep the solution
alkaline.
The acetone is to accelerate evaporation. Oleic acid also has the
advantage of being common, cheap, and non-toxic. It's a by product of
corn and veggie oil production.

<http://www.dialcover.com/components.html>
Scroll down to "Cease and Desist" contact cleaner. Much the same as
my home made formula except I won't use acetone because it eats
plastic. Ordinary isopropyl alcohol is safer.

Homebrew cleaners and protectors:
<http://www.pitt.edu/~szekeres/cleaner.htm>
The comments on the effects of silicones plus salt in WD40 are
interesting.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 9:12 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:02:02 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>So, does anyone know of a SIMPLE piece of free software, that will
>definitely allow me to work on this document 'in situ' and preferably by
>just being able to define and select an area and then erase it, or define
>and select an area then copy and paste it ?

Free online PDF editor:
<http://www.pdfescape.com>
Free, but limited to 10MB files and 100 pages. There's also a problem
with security as you have to upload the document to their web site in
order for the editor to work online.

PDFedit:
<http://pdfedit.cz/en/>
Free, not simple, but should do whatever you might need:
<http://pdfedit.cz/en/screenshots.html>

The way I usually do it is to import the PDF document into MS Word
(Office 2003), make the necessary changes, and save the document as a
PDF using CutePDF.
<http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/convert-documents-between-pdf-and-word-HA001168333.aspx>
<http://www.cutepdf.com>
<http://convertpdftoword.net>
This usually reformats the document, but that's fine as I now have
more control over formatting in MS Word than I would in most PDF
editor. It's also easier to modify graphics (i.e. schematics and
diagrams) in an external editor (GIMP) than inside a PDF editor.

If you use LibreOffice (spinoff from Open Office), there is an
extension to Writer (pdfimport) that will import the PDF. However,
it's not a real editor as it imports the PDF into the Draw drawing
program, and not into Writer. You can edit a few lines here and
there, but that's about it. Export as PDF is also built in for saving
the results.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 9:05 am
From: Rich Webb

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:02:02 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Might try the free PDF-XChange reader from Tracker Software
<http://www.tracker-software.com/pdf-xchange-products-comparison-chart>

I don't use the free one, myself (been using their "Pro" version for
years) but it may have the ability to overlay existing content with a
rectangle, which can match the page's background color, and then add
comments over top of that, if desired. Then "print" the individual pages
out to PDF format.

Also try the free Foxit reader. I believe that it also has commenting
tools. http://www.foxitsoftware.com/

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 9:30 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:02:02 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>I used to have a fully registered version of Acrobat, and I'm sure that
>allowed you to do it, but I am no longer able to use it, because when I
>upgraded my OS to Win 7, it was no longer compatible, and there was no route
>within Adobe, to upgrade an existing installation.

£228 including VAT for an upgrade from Acrobat 8 and below:
<http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/acrobat.html>

What version of Acrobat?
Acrobat Standard or Pro?
32 or 64 bit Windoze 7?

Looks like Acrobat 9 and later are compatible with Windoze 7.
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/Windows-7/en-us/Search.aspx?l=en&type=Software&s=acrobat>

I have Acrobat Pro 6 mostly running on Windoze 7 at a customers. I
had to use "run in compatibility mode" to make it work:
Make sure you are installing the program as an administrator.
Right click on the setup file and select properties.
Now click on compatibility tab.
Under compatibility tab, check "Run this program in compatibility
mode".
From the drop down menu select Windows XP.
Run the install.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 9:35 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Rich Webb" <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote in message
news:nacic7dlejhq4mhtd4hfvmq4ufnfahi7tr@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:02:02 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>So, does anyone know of a SIMPLE piece of free software, that will
>>definitely allow me to work on this document 'in situ' and preferably by
>>just being able to define and select an area and then erase it, or define
>>and select an area then copy and paste it ?
>
> Might try the free PDF-XChange reader from Tracker Software
> <http://www.tracker-software.com/pdf-xchange-products-comparison-chart>
>
> I don't use the free one, myself (been using their "Pro" version for
> years) but it may have the ability to overlay existing content with a
> rectangle, which can match the page's background color, and then add
> comments over top of that, if desired. Then "print" the individual pages
> out to PDF format.
>
> Also try the free Foxit reader. I believe that it also has commenting
> tools. http://www.foxitsoftware.com/
>
> --
> Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Hi Rich. I have the 'free' version of the Pro PDF-XChange reader, but have
not found anywhere in that one, that allows me to do a simple edit. I also
downloaded Foxit that I was sure would have the feature, but again, not as
far as I can see. It will do everything including scratching your arse for
you, but define - select - cut ? Nope ... :-|

Arfa

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 9:38 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:jab9n7$di4$1@dont-email.me...
> What you probably need is a program that can convert the document to
> "plain
> form". You can edit it, then reconvert to PDF.
>
> Type "pdf converter" in Google. There's a lot of free PDF converters out
> there.
>
> If necessary, you can send the edited material to me, and I'll do a PDF
> conversion. (Thanks for the warning about W7.)
>
>

I really did not want to have to mess around converting to other formats and
importing and exporting to other progs etc. There will be quite a lot of
iterations to achieve what I want, if I go the whole hog and add snipped
graphics from elsewhere in the document. There is a lot of good work to come
from these people, and it is worth spending some time to make the
documentation more 'service friendly', but there is a limit to the amount of
time I want to spend doing this ... Thanks for the offer of conversion help.

Arfa

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 9:40 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:5ubic7p3jmfne4iksavecj2i0hfo8qbl28@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:02:02 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>So, does anyone know of a SIMPLE piece of free software, that will
>>definitely allow me to work on this document 'in situ' and preferably by
>>just being able to define and select an area and then erase it, or define
>>and select an area then copy and paste it ?
>
> Free online PDF editor:
> <http://www.pdfescape.com>
> Free, but limited to 10MB files and 100 pages. There's also a problem
> with security as you have to upload the document to their web site in
> order for the editor to work online.
>
> PDFedit:
> <http://pdfedit.cz/en/>
> Free, not simple, but should do whatever you might need:
> <http://pdfedit.cz/en/screenshots.html>
>
> The way I usually do it is to import the PDF document into MS Word
> (Office 2003), make the necessary changes, and save the document as a
> PDF using CutePDF.
> <http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word-help/convert-documents-between-pdf-and-word-HA001168333.aspx>
> <http://www.cutepdf.com>
> <http://convertpdftoword.net>
> This usually reformats the document, but that's fine as I now have
> more control over formatting in MS Word than I would in most PDF
> editor. It's also easier to modify graphics (i.e. schematics and
> diagrams) in an external editor (GIMP) than inside a PDF editor.
>
> If you use LibreOffice (spinoff from Open Office), there is an
> extension to Writer (pdfimport) that will import the PDF. However,
> it's not a real editor as it imports the PDF into the Draw drawing
> program, and not into Writer. You can edit a few lines here and
> there, but that's about it. Export as PDF is also built in for saving
> the results.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann

Thanks Jeff. I'll look into it.

Arfa

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 10:16 am
From: Rich Webb

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 17:35:11 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>
>
>"Rich Webb" <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote in message
>news:nacic7dlejhq4mhtd4hfvmq4ufnfahi7tr@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:02:02 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
>> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>>So, does anyone know of a SIMPLE piece of free software, that will
>>>definitely allow me to work on this document 'in situ' and preferably by
>>>just being able to define and select an area and then erase it, or define
>>>and select an area then copy and paste it ?
>>
>> Might try the free PDF-XChange reader from Tracker Software
>> <http://www.tracker-software.com/pdf-xchange-products-comparison-chart>
>>
>> I don't use the free one, myself (been using their "Pro" version for
>> years) but it may have the ability to overlay existing content with a
>> rectangle, which can match the page's background color, and then add
>> comments over top of that, if desired. Then "print" the individual pages
>> out to PDF format.
>>
>> Also try the free Foxit reader. I believe that it also has commenting
>> tools. http://www.foxitsoftware.com/
>>
>> --
>> Rich Webb Norfolk, VA
>
>Hi Rich. I have the 'free' version of the Pro PDF-XChange reader, but have
>not found anywhere in that one, that allows me to do a simple edit. I also
>downloaded Foxit that I was sure would have the feature, but again, not as
>far as I can see. It will do everything including scratching your arse for
>you, but define - select - cut ? Nope ... :-|

You don't actually edit the existing text so much as stick a comment box
over it so that the area to be "erased" is still there (under the box)
but no longer visible. Print that page to a new PDF and voilà!

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:08 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 09:12:22 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>PDFedit:
><http://pdfedit.cz/en/>

Sorry, bad URL. Try:
<http://pdfedit.cz/en/index.html>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 1:32 pm
From: Mike Tomlinson

En el artículo <8w9yq.5618$NG1.5173@newsfe11.ams2>, Arfa Daily
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> escribió:

So run your existing version of Acrobat on an XP virtual machine within
Win7. It's called XP Compatability Mode or something like that.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Promote your Business with Direct Marketing.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ac8922a39e639941?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:24 pm
From: Adil Siddiqui

ISOFT Corporation provide you Email and SMS marketing for your
business at very reasonable prices.

Your can also purchase Email and Sms Marketing Software and can market
your product.

Email Marketing Software with 250000 email address of Pakistan Only Rs
600
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Rs.650

For Detail
Visit or call us at
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http://isoftcorporation.biz.ly

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 1:05 pm
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/20/2011 2:24 PM, Adil Siddiqui wrote:
> ISOFT

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 2:12 pm
From: Nelson

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 16:05:09 -0500, Jeffrey Angus wrote
(in article <jabq24$s84$1@dont-email.me>):

> On 11/20/2011 2:24 PM, Adil Siddiqui wrote:
>> ISOFT
>
> Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

Now, now. That's no way to welcome Adil to the group.

--
Nelson

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sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 4 topics - digest

2011-11-20T08:57:00.001-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Ion it USB turntable - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a4174ad69858759?hl=en
* Repaired Harbor Freight digital caliper - 16 messages, 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8587e526bcdbeaf?hl=en
* Sharp GF 990G ghetto blaster - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/87b2eef7dbd95b2e?hl=en
* Editing a pdf file ... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7a871e294322579?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ion it USB turntable
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a4174ad69858759?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:09 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

josephkk wrote:

> Pretty much true, but there is always resale value. Original vinyl in
> very good condition gets a much better price. And sometimes i have to do
> a second capture due to a gonk or other problem in the first one. Decent
> equipment always does the job better than crap.

About 10 years ago a gradute student did a project (I assume for a master's
thesis) where he developed software to "read" the music from a disk
by scanning it using a desktop scanner and processing the raw scanned file.

From what I remember researching it a few years ago, it never went any farther.

IMHO it would bear revisiting because of the improved scanners we have today
(although there are very few ones that can accomodate a 12 inch LP) and
the improved computers. There also has been more research in such things,
but not this one application.

Considering that even with good equipment there is a small amount of wear
caused by the stylus reading the disk and an optical scanner causes none,
one could scan the disk 10 or even 100 times and combine them to improve
accuracy.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 2:29 am
From: Nelson

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:09:04 -0500, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote
(in article <slrnjchdam.82n.gsm@cable.mendelson.com>):

> josephkk wrote:
>
>> Pretty much true, but there is always resale value. Original vinyl in
>> very good condition gets a much better price. And sometimes i have to do
>> a second capture due to a gonk or other problem in the first one. Decent
>> equipment always does the job better than crap.
>
> About 10 years ago a gradute student did a project (I assume for a master's
> thesis) where he developed software to "read" the music from a disk
> by scanning it using a desktop scanner and processing the raw scanned file.
>
> From what I remember researching it a few years ago, it never went any
> farther.
>
> IMHO it would bear revisiting because of the improved scanners we have today
> (although there are very few ones that can accomodate a 12 inch LP) and
> the improved computers. There also has been more research in such things,
> but not this one application.
>
> Considering that even with good equipment there is a small amount of wear
> caused by the stylus reading the disk and an optical scanner causes none,
> one could scan the disk 10 or even 100 times and combine them to improve
> accuracy.
>
> Geoff.
>
>

Actually there are a lot of people doing this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

There is even a guy who can recover sound from photographs of old
records :-)

--
Nelson

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 2:31 am
From: Nelson

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 22:17:28 -0500, josephkk wrote
(in article <s3sgc7t7os7scbidpovmcjp5n5tucifamu@4ax.com>):

[snip]

> Decent equipment always does the job better than crap.

True, but then financial reality always intrudes and we are forced to
deal with trade-offs :-)

--
Nelson

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 2:39 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"josephkk" <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:errgc75figkniilas6i5aki0mt00s1dd20@4ax.com...
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:05:35 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

>>> If all else fails, bypass the circuitry and just wire the cartridge up
>>> to the RCA output sockets, then you can use the deck like a 'normal
>>> 'TT with any amp having a Phono input.

>> This unit probably has a ceramic pickup. If so, that won't work.

> Really? Has anybody made those in the past 50 years?

99% of all stereo consoles used ceramic pickups. Almost all USB turntables
use ceramic pickups.

== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:41 am
From: "N_Cook"

P E Schoen <paul@pstech-inc.com> wrote in message
news:a4_xq.6861$ov2.2972@newsfe10.iad...
I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank. It
seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought it was a
bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.

So I took it apart, which meant peeling off a foil backing to expose four
small phillips head screws, which removed the electronics module, and then I
removed the PC board with four even smaller phillips screws. The LCD display
connects to the board with a flexible conductive strip, which relies on
pressure to maintain contact. I cleaned it and the mating contacts on the
PCB, reassembled it, and it now works fine!

My house is always very humid and I think that's what caused the problem.
It's hell on all my tools. Everything is rusty or mildewed.

It's quite interesting to see the mechanism that is used to make
measurements. There is an array of PCB traces that are aligned with an array
of stripes along the length of the caliper, and (I assume) these create
pulses that are counted as the head is moved. But it also needs to know
which way the head is being moved. Probably something like a quadrature
encoder as used for rotary position sensing. I'll have to look it up.

Paul

++++

It is usually a Moire fringe counting mechanism. The system like when you
move along a street and look through a set of railings to another set of
railings and you see a moving "interference" pattern. Set 2 fine grills over
one another at slight relative angle and these fringes become wide enough to
be reliably counted by a relatively large opto device, 10 or more times
wider than the spacing between the grating lines

== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 2:38 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9FA2ED4AFED51jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44...

> I wonder if Cramolin/DeOxit would work on the conductive strip?

I assume the strip is carbon-impregnated rubber (or some synthetic polymer).
Cramolin/DeOxit remove surface oxidation. I don't the latter as being
compatible with the former.

== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 4:41 am
From: amdx

On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
> I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
> problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank.
> It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought
> it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.
>

That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
about batteries or electronics.
(Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)

Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
$9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
Mikek

== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:03 am
From: "N_Cook"

amdx <amdx@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
news:4756b$4ec8f55d$18ec6dd7$12472@KNOLOGY.NET...
> On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
> > I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
> > problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank.
> > It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought
> > it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.
> >
>
> That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
> about batteries or electronics.
> (Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)
>
> Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
> $9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
> calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
> Mikek

I've never used the new-fangled ones - do you have to do a clean jaws, close
jaws, zero calibration check/0 reset ,every time you use them ? as the count
must be lost each time it is switched off

== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:17 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Cleaned, how? Trichlor? WD? Cotton swab?

Have you considered something to reduce the humidity, like
vent fan, central AC, or dehumidifier?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"P E Schoen" <paul@pstech-inc.com> wrote in message
news:a4_xq.6861$ov2.2972@newsfe10.iad...
I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and
I've had
problems with one of them especially, where the display will
go blank. It
seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I
thought it was a
bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't
work.

So I took it apart, which meant peeling off a foil backing
to expose four
small phillips head screws, which removed the electronics
module, and then I
removed the PC board with four even smaller phillips screws.
The LCD display
connects to the board with a flexible conductive strip,
which relies on
pressure to maintain contact. I cleaned it and the mating
contacts on the
PCB, reassembled it, and it now works fine!

My house is always very humid and I think that's what caused
the problem.
It's hell on all my tools. Everything is rusty or mildewed.

It's quite interesting to see the mechanism that is used to
make
measurements. There is an array of PCB traces that are
aligned with an array
of stripes along the length of the caliper, and (I assume)
these create
pulses that are counted as the head is moved. But it also
needs to know
which way the head is being moved. Probably something like a
quadrature
encoder as used for rotary position sensing. I'll have to
look it up.

Paul

== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:29 am
From: "Dave Plumpe"

Not only do they remember where Zero is, they even keep track of any
movement that occurs while they're turned off. Smart little devils.

I find myself more & more reaching for the digital ones for the ease of
swapping between inches & millimeters.

-Dave
--
http://plumpe.home.mindspring.com
email: lastname@mindspring.com
ANTI-SPAM: To email, replace "lastname" with "plumpe"
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jaatmo$4n4$1@dont-email.me...
>
> I've never used the new-fangled ones - do you have to do a clean jaws,
> close
> jaws, zero calibration check/0 reset ,every time you use them ? as the
> count
> must be lost each time it is switched off
>

== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:25 am
From: stans4@prolynx.com

On Nov 20, 6:03 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> amdx <a...@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4756b$4ec8f55d$18ec6dd7$12472@KNOLOGY.NET...
>
> > On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
> > > I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
> > > problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank.
> > > It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought
> > > it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.
>
> > That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
> > about batteries or electronics.
> > (Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)
>
> > Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
> > $9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
> > calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
> > Mikek
>
> I've never used the new-fangled ones - do you have to do a clean jaws, close
> jaws, zero calibration check/0 reset ,every time you use them ? as the count
> must be lost each time it is switched off

Used to be, they've improved things. On at least some, the count is
kept live and just the display is switched off. It all goes away when
batteries are switched, but that can be lived with.

Stan

== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:33 am
From: greenpjs@neo.rr.com

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 06:41:03 -0600, amdx <amdx@knologynotthis.net>
wrote:

>On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
>> I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
>> problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank.
>> It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought
>> it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.
>>
>
>That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
>about batteries or electronics.
>(Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)
>
>Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
>$9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
>calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
> Mikek

I bought one of those and really like it. It seems comparable to
calipers costing many time more. The only problem is I have to remove
the battery when I am done using it or it is dead the next time I get
it out. I have a feeling that is why they were selling them for
$9.99. Fortuneately, it is easy to remove and reinsert the battery.

== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:38 am
From: "N_Cook"

Dave Plumpe <lastname@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:dcCdnbxH1tldnVTTnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@earthlink.com...
> Not only do they remember where Zero is, they even keep track of any
> movement that occurs while they're turned off. Smart little devils.
>
> I find myself more & more reaching for the digital ones for the ease of
> swapping between inches & millimeters.
>
> -Dave
> --
> http://plumpe.home.mindspring.com
> email: lastname@mindspring.com
> ANTI-SPAM: To email, replace "lastname" with "plumpe"
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:jaatmo$4n4$1@dont-email.me...
> >
> > I've never used the new-fangled ones - do you have to do a clean jaws,
> > close
> > jaws, zero calibration check/0 reset ,every time you use them ? as the
> > count
> > must be lost each time it is switched off
> >
>
>

An engineer told me never close the jaws of a micrometer or vernier calipers
for storage, leave the jaws open slightly. Do these digitally things require
the jaws closing before switching off ? How do they know of any movement of
the jaws when switched off elsewise?

== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:41 am
From: "N_Cook"

<stans4@prolynx.com> wrote in message
news:0156c7a7-8bb2-4f32-922b-89bdd893a682@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 20, 6:03 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> amdx <a...@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4756b$4ec8f55d$18ec6dd7$12472@KNOLOGY.NET...
>
> > On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
> > > I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
> > > problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank.
> > > It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought
> > > it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't
work.
>
> > That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
> > about batteries or electronics.
> > (Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)
>
> > Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
> > $9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
> > calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
> > Mikek
>
> I've never used the new-fangled ones - do you have to do a clean jaws,
close
> jaws, zero calibration check/0 reset ,every time you use them ? as the
count
> must be lost each time it is switched off

Used to be, they've improved things. On at least some, the count is
kept live and just the display is switched off. It all goes away when
batteries are switched, but that can be lived with.

Stan

+++

So that explains , down thread, the drawback of dying batteries when
switched "off"

== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:19 am
From: Fred Abse

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 06:41:03 -0600, amdx wrote:

> That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
> about batteries or electronics.

I prefer a "proper" vernier. At least you can verify those by eye.I never
did trust digital calipers to hold their zero and not skip under workshop
conditions, Half a lifetime dealing with incremental encoders has made me
wary.

I *might* trust a Mitutoyo digital caliper or height gage in inspection
room conditions.

Dial calipers have all sorts of racks and gears to go sloppy.

I suppose nobody under fifty knows how to read a real vernier, or a slide
rule for that matter ;-(

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
(Richard Feynman)

== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:22 am
From: Jamie

N_Cook wrote:

> <stans4@prolynx.com> wrote in message
> news:0156c7a7-8bb2-4f32-922b-89bdd893a682@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 20, 6:03 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>amdx <a...@knologynotthis.net> wrote in message
>>
>>news:4756b$4ec8f55d$18ec6dd7$12472@KNOLOGY.NET...
>>
>>
>>>On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
>>>>problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank.
>>>>It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought
>>>>it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't
>
> work.
>
>>>That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
>>>about batteries or electronics.
>>>(Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)
>>
>>>Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
>>>$9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
>>>calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
>>>Mikek
>>
>>I've never used the new-fangled ones - do you have to do a clean jaws,
>
> close
>
>>jaws, zero calibration check/0 reset ,every time you use them ? as the
>
> count
>
>>must be lost each time it is switched off
>
>
> Used to be, they've improved things. On at least some, the count is
> kept live and just the display is switched off. It all goes away when
> batteries are switched, but that can be lived with.
>
> Stan
>
> +++
>
> So that explains , down thread, the drawback of dying batteries when
> switched "off"
>
>
I have the HF digital calipers and I need to pull the battery when not
in use other wise, it'll be dead next time I need it. It seems to drain
quite fast.

Other than that, it seems to work very nicely..
Jamie

== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:23 am
From: Jamie

N_Cook wrote:

> Dave Plumpe <lastname@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:dcCdnbxH1tldnVTTnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
>>Not only do they remember where Zero is, they even keep track of any
>>movement that occurs while they're turned off. Smart little devils.
>>
>>I find myself more & more reaching for the digital ones for the ease of
>>swapping between inches & millimeters.
>>
>>-Dave
>>--
>>http://plumpe.home.mindspring.com
>>email: lastname@mindspring.com
>>ANTI-SPAM: To email, replace "lastname" with "plumpe"
>>"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:jaatmo$4n4$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>>>I've never used the new-fangled ones - do you have to do a clean jaws,
>>>close
>>>jaws, zero calibration check/0 reset ,every time you use them ? as the
>>>count
>>>must be lost each time it is switched off
>>>
>>
>>
>
> An engineer told me never close the jaws of a micrometer or vernier calipers
> for storage, leave the jaws open slightly. Do these digitally things require
> the jaws closing before switching off ? How do they know of any movement of
> the jaws when switched off elsewise?
>
>
And the engineer was correct in saying so.

Jamie

== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:23 am
From: Doug White

greenpjs@neo.rr.com wrote in
news:e70ic7h9g57un7siiftqmdtkfp1tdej9bd@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 06:41:03 -0600, amdx <amdx@knologynotthis.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On 11/19/2011 9:01 PM, P E Schoen wrote:
>>> I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've
>>> had problems with one of them especially, where the display will go
>>> blank. It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and
>>> I thought it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh
>>> battery didn't work.
>>>
>>
>>That's why I like the Dial calipers vs Digital Calipers, no concern
>>about batteries or electronics.
>>(Dial Calipers, Item # 66541, Out of Stock)
>>
>>Although a couple years ago HF had the 6" Digital calipers on sale for
>>$9.99, I bought two. They are still in the boxes and I use my Dial
>>calipers. I think I might give one away as a Christmas present.
>> Mikek
>
> I bought one of those and really like it. It seems comparable to
> calipers costing many time more. The only problem is I have to remove
> the battery when I am done using it or it is dead the next time I get
> it out. I have a feeling that is why they were selling them for
> $9.99. Fortuneately, it is easy to remove and reinsert the battery.

The battery life in even high end calipers is highly variable. I have a
couple Mitutoyo calipers that are pretty good, but some of their
micrometers are terrible. I have an SPI micrometer that looks
suspiciously like a Chinese cheapo I have. They both need to have the
battery removed if you aren't actively using them. The SPI is a 24" job,
so it rarely gets used. There is no way the battery would last if I left
it in palce.

I discovered the hard way that the little cube electronic levels also eat
batteries, and they require a diet of the larger more expensive coin
cells (2032?). Most of my electronic measuring widgets use 357 style
button cells, and I buy them in quantity off eBay. Radio Shack is a real
ripoff for those things.

Doug White

== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:46 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 13:38:36 -0000, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:
>An engineer told me never close the jaws of a micrometer or vernier calipers
>for storage, leave the jaws open slightly.

True. With gear type calipers, the lubricating grease tends to
migrate to that position. If a sufficiently filthy environment, an
lump of dirt encrusted grease will be left in that position. If it
happens to be at 0.0, then it will be difficult to accurately
calibrate the mechanism. There are also some minor reasons, such as
the tendency for two parallel surfaces to trap moisture between them
and rust.

>Do these digitally things require
>the jaws closing before switching off ?

No.

>How do they know of any movement of
>the jaws when switched off elsewise?

Only the display is turned off. The pulse counting mechanism is still
operating and functional. The downside is that the battery will be
dead in about 6-9 months. Most include a spare LR44 battery. I had
to buy a pile of them to keep my calipers going. Somehow, the battery
is usually dead when I need to use them.

50 batteries for $3.75
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/220751739681>

I have an expensive set of Starett calipers (both metric and US). I
use them more often than the electronic variety, mostly out of habit.
My most useful measuring tools are my 6" pocket steel scale and a tape
measure.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:55 am
From: Bob Engelhardt

Jamie wrote:
> I have the HF digital calipers and I need to pull the battery when not
> in use other wise, it'll be dead next time I need it. It seems to drain
> quite fast.
...

I have one & the battery lasts quite a while (doesn't get used much).
Maybe a different model. Or a different batch. Or different spots on
the quality curve <G>.

Bob

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 1:19 am
From: "N_Cook"

I will be renovating one of these next week, owner from new, was told only
100 came into the UK, probably 1982 from numerous IC "2.." datecodes. What
is the use for the "sound processor" as no display, but seems to have its
own 3V batteries for memory retention.
http://i32.tinypic.com/10d6yxx.jpg
The front comes away easily as do the 2 tape decks, hopefully just perished
rubber bands and minor owner-mangling problems

whole blaster
http://www.audiocircuit.com/A-Images/AA-Brands/S/Sharp-SHH/GF-990-G____-F-00
1-932-SHH.jpg

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:48 am
From: "N_Cook"

If it is 1982 it uses a very early minidin connector, 8 way, to connect the
umbilical to the music processor (not sound processor)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 5:56 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jaagi4$13a$1@dont-email.me...
> I will be renovating one of these next week, owner from new, was told only
> 100 came into the UK, probably 1982 from numerous IC "2.." datecodes. What
> is the use for the "sound processor" as no display, but seems to have its
> own 3V batteries for memory retention.
> http://i32.tinypic.com/10d6yxx.jpg
> The front comes away easily as do the 2 tape decks, hopefully just
> perished
> rubber bands and minor owner-mangling problems

Here it is in action.
Can't see the point really, who wanted to have this five minute wonder
"feature"?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBIsIltlphs

Gareth.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:02 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

OK. So I've got a manual from a company that I'm doing some work for. It's a
pdf file, nice quality images. I want to combine a few of the images, to
create composite pages that I can print out tiled across four sheets. I
don't have a problem with the printing. The pdf viewer that I'm using at the
moment, allows for that, and I do it all the time to get printouts of
schematics up to a sensible size.

Where I am having trouble, is finding some software that will do a simple
(erasure) edit of part of a page. A 'for instance', then. One of the pages
shows a layout of one of the boards. I want to print it in the middle of a
4-sheet tile set, with a clear surround on all four sides so that I can
either hand annotate some of the things on it, or add in images from
elsewhere in the document. Trouble is, there's a bloody great header all
across the top of the page, and a footer at the bottom, so I want to either
(preferably) 'delete' these from the page, leaving just the board image, or
alternately, select the board image from the page, in its pdf format, and
drop it elsewhere, still in its full-res pdf format, without going through
any in-between conversions to bitmap or whatever, as happens if you use a
snapshot tool to dump it to the clipboard.

You would have thought it would be easy to find a piece of freeware that
could do a 'select - edit - cut' operation on a page, but I'm buggered if I
can find one. There are loads of packages out there that claim to be pdf
editors with endless features, and they do have, but none seem to have just
simple tools to allow me to do what I want.

I used to have a fully registered version of Acrobat, and I'm sure that
allowed you to do it, but I am no longer able to use it, because when I
upgraded my OS to Win 7, it was no longer compatible, and there was no route
within Adobe, to upgrade an existing installation.

So, does anyone know of a SIMPLE piece of free software, that will
definitely allow me to work on this document 'in situ' and preferably by
just being able to define and select an area and then erase it, or define
and select an area then copy and paste it ?

Arfa

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 8:25 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

What you probably need is a program that can convert the document to "plain
form". You can edit it, then reconvert to PDF.

Type "pdf converter" in Google. There's a lot of free PDF converters out
there.

If necessary, you can send the edited material to me, and I'll do a PDF
conversion. (Thanks for the warning about W7.)

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sci.electronics.repair - 20 new messages in 5 topics - digest

2011-11-20T00:24:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Grandata - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c4eb9587fcbba667?hl=en
* Ion it USB turntable - 13 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a4174ad69858759?hl=en
* Digital Optical to Analog Converter - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d6eac4949d838497?hl=en
* Repaired Harbor Freight digital caliper - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8587e526bcdbeaf?hl=en
* good - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/31fb92264cebec9a?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Grandata
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c4eb9587fcbba667?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 12:37 am
From: "N_Cook"

Rajni Bhudia <grandata.trading@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:798e2eca-c385-4043-8c72-656f83acaaaf@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> Dear Group Member
>
> Just to advise that Grandata is still running and certainly has not
> 'Gone down the pan', We are still one of the largest component
> suppliers in the Uk and have also added numerous other products to our
> website.
>
> Our old paper catalogue did list a lot of components which are still
> not listed on the website, please always refer to the catalogue and
> the website for components, should this fail then please email us and
> we can try to find any special component that you may require and we
> do our level best to help.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Grandata
>
>

I have your paper 1999 catalogue in front of me. So are you telling me that
the ICs listed from page 10 to page 18 are still carried ( if not sold out
of course) but not found in stock if using your on-line search box. Whatever
IC (outside of power devices) I found in the paper listing was no longer
mentioned on the on-line cat .

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 1:31 pm
From: "Ian Field"

"Rajni Bhudia" <grandata.trading@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:798e2eca-c385-4043-8c72-656f83acaaaf@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> Dear Group Member
>
> Just to advise that Grandata is still running and certainly has not
> 'Gone down the pan', We are still one of the largest component
> suppliers in the Uk and have also added numerous other products to our
> website.
>
> Our old paper catalogue did list a lot of components which are still
> not listed on the website, please always refer to the catalogue and
> the website for components, should this fail then please email us and
> we can try to find any special component that you may require and we
> do our level best to help.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Grandata

Just out of curiosity - do you do PSU capacitor kits for well known model
freeview boxes?

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 6:58 am
From: klem kedidelhopper

On Nov 18, 1:47 pm, n...@jecarter.us wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:07:05 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
>
> <captainvideo462...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
> >cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
> >great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
> >probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
> >of these? Thanks, Lenny
>
> Not sure it's worth the effort to repair. You can get a USB turntable
> for $35US plus shipping:
>
> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=VS-2002-SPK

I copy my albums to cassette. With my hearing I'd never realize any
benefit going to the computer. If I was personally interested in
copying my LP's to digital though I don't think I'd buy one of these
cheapie turntables in the first place. In my opinion you're just
asking to have your records ruined. Rather to preserve my records, I
would want to use my nice Thorens turntable with a magnetic cartridge
that tracks at less than a gram, with with anti skating, etc along
with some kind of an analog to digital converter. There must be some
type of "black box" converter that will take either an RIAA phono
signal direct from the cartridge, or a line level signal perhaps from
the tape out of an amp and convert it to digital. Lenny

== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:16 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com>
wrote in message
news:5cdb407d-c34a-4378-82bd-e466887d9603@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

> I copy my albums to cassette. With my hearing I'd never realize any
> benefit going to the computer. If I was personally interested in
> copying my LP's to digital though I don't think I'd buy one of these
> cheapie turntables in the first place. In my opinion you're just
> asking to have your records ruined. Rather to preserve my records, I
> would want to use my nice Thorens turntable with a magnetic cartridge
> that tracks at less than a gram, with with anti skating, etc along
> with some kind of an analog to digital converter. There must be some
> type of "black box" converter that will take either an RIAA phono
> signal direct from the cartridge, or a line level signal perhaps from
> the tape out of an amp and convert it to digital.

Try this.

http://www.parasound.com/ParasoundZ/zphonoUSB.php

Disclaimer: Except for my Vendetta head amp, my tuner, controller, and power
amps are Parasound. I'm very friendly with the company, and John Curl, who
designed my head amp and power amps. I have no hesitation recommending
Parasound products.

== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 8:34 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ja8h9g$8rf$1@dont-email.me...
> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com>
> wrote in message
> news:5cdb407d-c34a-4378-82bd-e466887d9603@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I copy my albums to cassette. With my hearing I'd never realize any
>> benefit going to the computer. If I was personally interested in
>> copying my LP's to digital though I don't think I'd buy one of these
>> cheapie turntables in the first place. In my opinion you're just
>> asking to have your records ruined. Rather to preserve my records, I
>> would want to use my nice Thorens turntable with a magnetic cartridge
>> that tracks at less than a gram, with with anti skating, etc along
>> with some kind of an analog to digital converter. There must be some
>> type of "black box" converter that will take either an RIAA phono
>> signal direct from the cartridge, or a line level signal perhaps from
>> the tape out of an amp and convert it to digital.
>
> Try this.
>
> http://www.parasound.com/ParasoundZ/zphonoUSB.php
>

Or perhaps this if the Parasound is a little O.T.T.

http://www.studiospares.com/audio-interfaces/behringer-u-phono-ufo202/invt/382390/?source=215_73&gclid=CM3rz56Qw6wCFUEb4QodOniRpg

Gareth.

== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 11:42 am
From: Nelson

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:58:54 -0500, klem kedidelhopper wrote
(in article
<5cdb407d-c34a-4378-82bd-e466887d9603@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>):

> In my opinion you're just
> asking to have your records ruined.

You know, I see that comment all the time and I wonder what the basis
for it is. I know about the tracking pressure, how good the needle is,
etc. But you are just playing it _once_ for crikey's sake. And, if
you are converting them to digital, you probably don't have an more use
for the vinyl anyway.

--
Nelson

== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 12:27 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"Nelson" <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.CAED70D900EC0957B02919BF@news.astraweb.com...
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:58:54 -0500, klem kedidelhopper wrote
> (in article
> <5cdb407d-c34a-4378-82bd-e466887d9603@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>):

>> In my opinion you're just
>> asking to have your records ruined.

> You know, I see that comment all the time and I wonder what the basis
> for it is. I know about the tracking pressure, how good the needle is,
> etc. But you are just playing it _once_ for crikey's sake. And if you are
> converting them to digital, you probably don't have any more use for the
> vinyl, anyway.

Which is all the more reason for making a really good transfer. Record
damage or not, a cheap ceramic pickup is not going to give the sound quality
of a decent magnetic pickup. The catch, of course, is that a good 'table,
pickup, preamp, ADC, etc, aren't cheap.

== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 12:48 pm
From: Peter Hill

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:34:37 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:

>
>
>"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:ja8h9g$8rf$1@dont-email.me...
>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com>
>> wrote in message
>> news:5cdb407d-c34a-4378-82bd-e466887d9603@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> I copy my albums to cassette. With my hearing I'd never realize any
>>> benefit going to the computer. If I was personally interested in
>>> copying my LP's to digital though I don't think I'd buy one of these
>>> cheapie turntables in the first place. In my opinion you're just
>>> asking to have your records ruined. Rather to preserve my records, I
>>> would want to use my nice Thorens turntable with a magnetic cartridge
>>> that tracks at less than a gram, with with anti skating, etc along
>>> with some kind of an analog to digital converter. There must be some
>>> type of "black box" converter that will take either an RIAA phono
>>> signal direct from the cartridge, or a line level signal perhaps from
>>> the tape out of an amp and convert it to digital.
>>
>> Try this.
>>
>> http://www.parasound.com/ParasoundZ/zphonoUSB.php
>>
>
>
>Or perhaps this if the Parasound is a little O.T.T.
>
>http://www.studiospares.com/audio-interfaces/behringer-u-phono-ufo202/invt/382390/?source=215_73&gclid=CM3rz56Qw6wCFUEb4QodOniRpg
>
>
>Gareth.

That's expensive. OK it's got a pre-amp so you don't have to use line
and an output (like what computer with USB doesn't have sound built
in?) but I think it's the copy of Audacity vinyl restoration that
costs.

Video + audio capture £4.60.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0011N9QNC/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002H3BSCM&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1YEVDN19JPPGH9MN8D3F

Anyone know of freeware click remover etc?
--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 12:56 pm
From: "Gareth Magennis"

"Peter Hill" <peter.usenet1@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:eutfc7tpv214h9aljc39q9bdtrg3rn3vi9@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:34:37 -0000, "Gareth Magennis"
> <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:ja8h9g$8rf$1@dont-email.me...
>>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com>
>>> wrote in message
>>> news:5cdb407d-c34a-4378-82bd-e466887d9603@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> I copy my albums to cassette. With my hearing I'd never realize any
>>>> benefit going to the computer. If I was personally interested in
>>>> copying my LP's to digital though I don't think I'd buy one of these
>>>> cheapie turntables in the first place. In my opinion you're just
>>>> asking to have your records ruined. Rather to preserve my records, I
>>>> would want to use my nice Thorens turntable with a magnetic cartridge
>>>> that tracks at less than a gram, with with anti skating, etc along
>>>> with some kind of an analog to digital converter. There must be some
>>>> type of "black box" converter that will take either an RIAA phono
>>>> signal direct from the cartridge, or a line level signal perhaps from
>>>> the tape out of an amp and convert it to digital.
>>>
>>> Try this.
>>>
>>> http://www.parasound.com/ParasoundZ/zphonoUSB.php
>>>
>>
>>
>>Or perhaps this if the Parasound is a little O.T.T.
>>
>>http://www.studiospares.com/audio-interfaces/behringer-u-phono-ufo202/invt/382390/?source=215_73&gclid=CM3rz56Qw6wCFUEb4QodOniRpg
>>
>>
>>Gareth.
>
> That's expensive. OK it's got a pre-amp so you don't have to use line
> and an output (like what computer with USB doesn't have sound built
> in?) but I think it's the copy of Audacity vinyl restoration that
> costs.
>
> Video + audio capture £4.60.
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0011N9QNC/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002H3BSCM&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1YEVDN19JPPGH9MN8D3F
>

As far as I can tell, that Amazon unit is not a phono pre-amp, it is a line
amp, and will not work at all well with a turntable.

Gareth.

== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 2:28 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Peter Hill wrote:
>
> Anyone know of freeware click remover etc?

Older versions of 'Cool Edit', from before Adobe bought it.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:09 pm
From: josephkk

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:03:15 +0000, Peter Hill
<peter.usenet1@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:50:30 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
><captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 17, 6:03 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 16, 10:07 pm, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
>>> > cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
>>> > great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
>>> > probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
>>> > of these? Thanks, Lenny
>>>
>>> If all else fails, bypass the circuitry and just wire the cartridge up
>>> to the RCA output sockets, then you can use the deck like a 'normal
>>> 'TT with any amp having a Phono input.
>>>
>>> -b
>>
>>I would do it if it was mine but I don't think the customer has a
>>stereo system. Lenny
>
>If they are making MP3s from vinyl they must have a computer to copy
>the MP3s to a MP3 player.
>It will have an audio input and sound recorder app.
>So only need a codec to save the recorded input as an MP3. (which they
>probably already have)

It is likely not to be mp3 coming down the USB but wav, raw 16 bit 44.1
kHz sampling, the rest done on the PC.

?-)

== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:10 pm
From: josephkk

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:05:35 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

>> If all else fails, bypass the circuitry and just wire the cartridge up
>> to the RCA output sockets, then you can use the deck like a 'normal
>> 'TT with any amp having a Phono input.
>
>This unit probably has a ceramic pickup. If so, that won't work.
>

Really? Has anybody made those in the past 50 years?

?-)

== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:13 pm
From: josephkk

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 06:58:54 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Nov 18, 1:47 pm, n...@jecarter.us wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:07:05 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
>>
>> <captainvideo462...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
>> >cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
>> >great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
>> >probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
>> >of these? Thanks, Lenny
>>
>> Not sure it's worth the effort to repair. You can get a USB turntable
>> for $35US plus shipping:
>>
>> http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=VS-2002-SPK
>
>I copy my albums to cassette. With my hearing I'd never realize any
>benefit going to the computer. If I was personally interested in
>copying my LP's to digital though I don't think I'd buy one of these
>cheapie turntables in the first place. In my opinion you're just
>asking to have your records ruined. Rather to preserve my records, I
>would want to use my nice Thorens turntable with a magnetic cartridge
>that tracks at less than a gram, with with anti skating, etc along
>with some kind of an analog to digital converter. There must be some
>type of "black box" converter that will take either an RIAA phono
>signal direct from the cartridge, or a line level signal perhaps from
>the tape out of an amp and convert it to digital. Lenny

Both forms are readily available in a wide variety of price and in quality
(which do not track).

?-)

== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:17 pm
From: josephkk

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 14:42:33 -0500, Nelson <nelson@nowhere.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 09:58:54 -0500, klem kedidelhopper wrote
>(in article
><5cdb407d-c34a-4378-82bd-e466887d9603@w1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>):
>
>> In my opinion you're just
>> asking to have your records ruined.
>
>You know, I see that comment all the time and I wonder what the basis
>for it is. I know about the tracking pressure, how good the needle is,
>etc. But you are just playing it _once_ for crikey's sake. And, if
>you are converting them to digital, you probably don't have an more use
>for the vinyl anyway.

Pretty much true, but there is always resale value. Original vinyl in
very good condition gets a much better price. And sometimes i have to do
a second capture due to a gonk or other problem in the first one. Decent
equipment always does the job better than crap.

?-)

== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 20 2011 12:09 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

josephkk wrote:

From what I remember researching it a few years ago, it never went any farther.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Digital Optical to Analog Converter
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d6eac4949d838497?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:32 am
From: Klay Anderson

We have the Gefen new in stock new for $100.

Klay

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 7:01 pm
From: "P E Schoen"

I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank. It
seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought it was a
bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't work.

My house is always very humid and I think that's what caused the problem.
It's hell on all my tools. Everything is rusty or mildewed.

Paul

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 8:19 pm
From: Jim Yanik

"P E Schoen" <paul@pstech-inc.com> wrote in
news:a4_xq.6861$ov2.2972@newsfe10.iad:

> I have two Harbor Freight digital calipers, item #47257, and I've had
> problems with one of them especially, where the display will go blank.
> It seemed to work sometimes if I squeezed the enclosure, and I thought
> it was a bad battery or bad connection. But a fresh battery didn't
> work.
>
> So I took it apart, which meant peeling off a foil backing to expose
> four small phillips head screws, which removed the electronics module,
> and then I removed the PC board with four even smaller phillips
> screws. The LCD display connects to the board with a flexible
> conductive strip, which relies on pressure to maintain contact. I
> cleaned it and the mating contacts on the PCB, reassembled it, and it
> now works fine!
>
> My house is always very humid and I think that's what caused the
> problem. It's hell on all my tools. Everything is rusty or mildewed.
>
> It's quite interesting to see the mechanism that is used to make
> measurements. There is an array of PCB traces that are aligned with an
> array of stripes along the length of the caliper, and (I assume) these
> create pulses that are counted as the head is moved. But it also needs
> to know which way the head is being moved. Probably something like a
> quadrature encoder as used for rotary position sensing. I'll have to
> look it up.
>
> Paul
>
>

use Boeing Boeshield T-9 to prevent the rusting of your tools.

I wonder if Cramolin/DeOxit would work on the conductive strip?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 9:18 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sat, 19 Nov 2011 22:19:11 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>I wonder if Cramolin/DeOxit would work on the conductive strip?

<http://siber-sonic.com/electronics/caig.html>
Sorta. The original Cramolin contained about 5% oleic acid, which is
great for removing surface oxidation, but is also mildly corrosive to
copper. The current version is DeOxit from Caig Labs. It comes in an
amazing variety of forms, and is allegedly non-corrosive.
<http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/.f>
The MSDS data shows the active ingredients as a "trade secret". Oh
well.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: good
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/31fb92264cebec9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 8:58 pm
From: jai

http://123maza.com/48/share825/

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sci.electronics.repair - 11 new messages in 6 topics - digest

2011-11-19T00:41:00.001-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Ion it USB turntable - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a4174ad69858759?hl=en
* Flat belt mechanics - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9f62768eb91d218d?hl=en
* Digital Optical to Analog Converter - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d6eac4949d838497?hl=en
* HP 201C Oscillator Manual - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ea0034453baa19f2?hl=en
* hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/de14f30159a3e4ad?hl=en
* Grandata - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c4eb9587fcbba667?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 12:03 am
From: Peter Hill

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:50:30 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Nov 17, 6:03 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 16, 10:07 pm, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
>> > cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
>> > great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
>> > probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
>> > of these? Thanks, Lenny
>>
>> If all else fails, bypass the circuitry and just wire the cartridge up
>> to the RCA output sockets, then you can use the deck like a 'normal
>> 'TT with any amp having a Phono input.
>>
>> -b
>
>I would do it if it was mine but I don't think the customer has a
>stereo system. Lenny

If they are making MP3s from vinyl they must have a computer to copy
the MP3s to a MP3 player.
It will have an audio input and sound recorder app.
So only need a codec to save the recorded input as an MP3. (which they
probably already have)
--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 10:47 am
From: news@jecarter.us

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:07:05 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

>Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
>cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
>great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
>probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
>of these? Thanks, Lenny

Not sure it's worth the effort to repair. You can get a USB turntable
for $35US plus shipping:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=VS-2002-SPK

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Flat belt mechanics
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9f62768eb91d218d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 2:18 am
From: "N_Cook"

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ja0is8$qre$1@dont-email.me...
> Useful to remember if no machine shop available for making a bulbous
pulley,
> if faced with replacing a motor and its the wrong speed range so forced
> change of pulley , or smaller spindle diameter. Except the ridge is
> semi-circular profile here and bodge job would be chamfered edges but
> starting from a brass rod it would be a lot easier to fashion leaving
> central ridge, bodging 2 cone segments and 2 end faces , than fully
bulbous
> without a lathe
>
>

Back working with a silicone rubber flat belt, shame it is bright orange.
Looking under x30 the original band had a furrow along its centre. I've
since found a salvaged variant on this pinion , 2 angled cones with an
included angle of about 110 degrees but no ridge , just a rounded join
probably about .5mm diameter again. The band cannot deflect that much so
must ride on that central edge, like the one I just fixed. Perhaps bulbous
ones are just kinder on the rubber

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 4:40 am
From: "Arny Krueger"

"JohnC" <anonymous@news.groups.com> wrote in message
news:67ed3$4ec5ce16$40971c7d$25549@EVERESTKC.NET...

> I think that will do it. When RTFM (thanks spamtrap1888) the Panasonic
> will provide Dolby Digital when an ATSC channel is selected and PCM when
> NTSC channel is selected. I'm getting ATSC over the air so I need to
> convert Dolby Digital. Looks like the Gefen unit will do this. I'll get
> it and post back the results. BTW, I could find no menu option to change
> the digital optical out fomat on the TV. Thanks to all for your help.

Interesting. My 60" Mitsubishi DLP converts everything it receives,
whether OTA or from any HDMI or analog source, into 48 KHz stereo PCM for
its optical output. This allows me to use an ancient DAC with it and get
full functioning no matter what the source.

There may be a setup menu option for forcing the digital output of your TV
into PCM mode all of the time. Or not.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 5:27 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

<stratus46@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:865c4235-b47e-4574-a821-edff3fdc0e42@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

> I bought 2 of these directly from RMS for $5 each a couple
> of years ago. They work very well. I had a hard time finding
> ANY "galvanic isolators".

http://www.rmscommunications.net/pdf/MI2120VPG69&70.pdf

The MCM is spec'd at a 2.4GHz bandwidth, so it might provide better
performance in some systems. (I have no idea what the upper limits of cable
systems are.)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 8:26 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Nov 18, 5:27 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> <stratu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:865c4235-b47e-4574-a821-edff3fdc0e42@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I bought 2 of these directly from RMS for $5 each a couple
> > of years ago. They work very well. I had a hard time finding
> > ANY "galvanic isolators".
>
> http://www.rmscommunications.net/pdf/MI2120VPG69&70.pdf
>
> The MCM is spec'd at a 2.4GHz bandwidth, so it might provide better
> performance in some systems. (I have no idea what the upper limits of cable
> systems are.)

I'm using them with OTA digital TV which tops out at 700 MHz so it's
no problem at all. Our cable provider is currently topped out at
channel 135, under 900 MHz

G²

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HP 201C Oscillator Manual
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ea0034453baa19f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 8:59 am
From: "Trailboss"

Would anyone have a copy of the HP 210C Oscillator manual they could send
me, the one I found online was missing many pages.

Thanks

Vin Collins
jvcmarine at yahoo dot com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 10:10 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Trailboss wrote:
>
> Would anyone have a copy of the HP 210C Oscillator manual they could send
> me, the one I found online was missing many pages.

Which online manual?

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 7:22 pm
From: saranya saran

Hi friends see this webpage

Webpages: http://123maza.com/65/tiger205/

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 12:09 am
From: Rajni Bhudia

Dear Group Member

Just to advise that Grandata is still running and certainly has not
'Gone down the pan', We are still one of the largest component
suppliers in the Uk and have also added numerous other products to our
website.

Our old paper catalogue did list a lot of components which are still
not listed on the website, please always refer to the catalogue and
the website for components, should this fail then please email us and
we can try to find any special component that you may require and we
do our level best to help.

Kind Regards

Grandata

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 19 2011 12:37 am
From: "N_Cook"

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sci.electronics.repair - 5 new messages in 4 topics - digest

2011-11-18T00:28:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Digital Optical to Analog Converter - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d6eac4949d838497?hl=en
* Fuse size in IBM ThinkPad T22 wallwart power supply - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/604b8d65c02e3a74?hl=en
* Is there some'secret' way to easily remove screw cap covers when
dissassembling? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c64bf4354664f1fc?hl=en
* Ion it USB turntable - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a4174ad69858759?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 7:19 pm
From: "JohnC"

> I just purchased a Panasonic Viera Plasma TV model TC-P42S30. Since it
> has
> no analog audio out for my legacy stereo, I purchased a FiiO Optical to
> Audio Converter Model D3,
> http://www.fiio.com.cn/product/index.aspx?ID=33&MenuID=020302 .But when I
> hooked it up to the TV digital optical out, all I got was a pulsing sound
> from my stereo.. The digital to analog converter worked fine on when
> connected to the digital optical on the Blu-Ray but not on the Panasonic
> TV.

> I took the converter to the store where I purchased the TV and the sales
> rep
> connected it to a Panasonic TV and got the same results. Is this
> converter
> not able to decode the digital signal from Panasonic TVs? Can anyone
> recommend one that will work with my TV?

> John

"Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com> wrote in message
news:25552311.108.1321569151620.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prnv30...
> Nope. With TVs you have to use this:
>
> http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5980
>
> Text "Klay" to 50500 for contact info
>
> -.- .-.. .- -.-- / .- - / -.- .-.. .- -.-- / -.. --- - / -.-. --- --
> Yours truly,
>
> Mr. Klay Anderson, D.A.,Q.B.E.

I think that will do it. When RTFM (thanks spamtrap1888) the Panasonic will
provide Dolby Digital when an ATSC channel is selected and PCM when NTSC
channel is selected. I'm getting ATSC over the air so I need to convert
Dolby Digital. Looks like the Gefen unit will do this. I'll get it and
post back the results. BTW, I could find no menu option to change the
digital optical out fomat on the TV. Thanks to all for your help.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 8:54 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Nov 17, 3:44 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> A related issue...
>
> Though it's not the source of your problem, you might want to look into the
> possibility of ground loops, especially if you wind up making an analog
> connection between the Panasonic and your system.
>
> It's difficult to find RF isolation transformers for cable systems. MCM
> sells one -- the #33-8700 that seems to work okay. It's sometimes available
> for ~ $10. You might also want or need a double-F connector, #33-480.

I bought 2 of these directly from RMS for $5 each a couple of years
ago. They work very well. I had a hard time finding ANY 'galvanic
isolators'.

http://www.rmscommunications.net/pdf/MI2120VPG69&70.pdf

I had the very problem you're talking about and the isolators cleaned
all of it up. The problem was PCs in different rooms on different
branches and opposite phase connected by the antenna cables. The hum
was quite bad before the isolators.

G²

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fuse size in IBM ThinkPad T22 wallwart power supply
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/604b8d65c02e3a74?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 9:55 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:45:42 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

>The laptop boots up, beeps because the date is set to 1981 [can't see
>the screen, backlight is OUT, just know the significance of the beep]
>Conclusion SMPS works, laptop basically works. just no screen!

Plug in an external monitor into the "VGA" connector.

>So following the T22 manual dissassembled down to the LCD screen,
>could not see anything that looked like liquid and dried salts, so
>don't know what's still wrong. Flushed with distilled water anywy and
>will let dry. Will see later if that brings it back.

Sigh. When the laptop recovers from the baptism, turn it on, and
shine a flashlight on the screen. Can you see the image of whatever
it's booting? You may need to move the flashlight around to see the
image. If it's visible, it's probably the inverter. However, if it
comes on with an orange glow, it's the CCFL lamps in the LCD panel.

>Is the 'inverter card' the ps for the backlight?

Yep. Google for "Thinkpad T22 LCD Inverter".
<www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=thinkpad+t22+lcd+inverter>
About $6.00

>is it touchy and blows easily?

Yep. If you short it out with salt water and it can blow up. High
voltage does funny things to sensitive electronics.

>If I can find a way to remove the cap covers over the screws without
>destroying the cap covers,

The screw covers are made from sheet plastic and held in with rubber
cement. Pound a very small flat screwdriver between the screw cover
and the plastic frame, and pry upward.

>I'll take out the invreter board and look
>at it to see if any obvious damage. Or ohm out the terminals on the
>main switching transistor to see if it got toasted. Any ideas?

Find an AC voltmeter and measure the output voltage. For laptops, my
guess(tm) is about 500-800 VAC. Please remember that you have but one
life to give for your laptop.

Incidentally, the fan is often a problem on such Thinkpad laptops.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is there some'secret' way to easily remove screw cap covers when
dissassembling?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c64bf4354664f1fc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 10:05 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:27:31 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

>Thus, the question, is there some secret to getting these cap covers
>out without destroying them?

Tiny screwdriver and pry up.

If you want to do it without destroying the screw cover, use a vacuum
pickup tool and vacuum pump:
<www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=vacuum+pickup+pen>
Grab the screw cover near the edge and pull up. Don't try to pull on
the middle of the cover.

If you don't mind building a dedicated tip, a solder sucker might work
(I have't tried it).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 18 2011 12:03 am
From: Peter Hill

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:50:30 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
<captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote:

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sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

2011-11-17T19:20:00.001-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Digital Optical to Analog Converter - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d6eac4949d838497?hl=en
* Useful Resource ... - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4ffeeabe6ce63f45?hl=en
* D-Logik HD66 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3401167a071d177c?hl=en
* Ion it USB turntable - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a4174ad69858759?hl=en
* Wanted: HP 3746A power transformer - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e114a2ee536e13be?hl=en
* Is there some'secret' way to easily remove screw cap covers when
dissassembling? - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c64bf4354664f1fc?hl=en
* Fuse size in IBM ThinkPad T22 wallwart power supply - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/604b8d65c02e3a74?hl=en

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 16 2011 9:05 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Nov 16, 6:17 pm, "JohnC" <anonym...@news.groups.com> wrote:
> I just purchased a Panasonic Viera Plasma TV model TC-P42S30. Since it has
> no analog audio out for my legacy stereo, I purchased a FiiO Optical to
> Audio Converter Model D3,http://www.fiio.com.cn/product/index.aspx?ID=33&MenuID=020302.But when I
> hooked it up to the TV digital optical out, all I got was a pulsing sound
> from my stereo.. The digital to analog converter worked fine on when
> connected to the digital optical on the Blu-Ray but not on the Panasonic TV.
>
> I took the converter to the store where I purchased the TV and the sales rep
> connected it to a Panasonic TV and got the same results. Is this converter
> not able to decode the digital signal from Panasonic TVs? Can anyone
> recommend one that will work with my TV?
>
> John

Had a similar problem but the earphone jack works well enough. For
reasons that make no sense to me using the earphone jack disables
balance, bass and treble controls. Somebody in Korea believes that
earphones are perfect. Who knew? Anyway I use one of the USB ports to
take the 5 Volts and trigger a solid state relay to turn on the
receiver to run the speakers. It's only stereo but then again it's
only TV.

G²

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 3:44 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

A related issue...

Though it's not the source of your problem, you might want to look into the
possibility of ground loops, especially if you wind up making an analog
connection between the Panasonic and your system.

It's difficult to find RF isolation transformers for cable systems. MCM
sells one -- the #33-8700 that seems to work okay. It's sometimes available
for ~ $10. You might also want or need a double-F connector, #33-480.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 7:19 pm
From: "JohnC"

> John

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Useful Resource ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4ffeeabe6ce63f45?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 3:45 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

Picky point...

Chili is the dish. Chiles are the peppers. There's an episode of "Good Eats"
that carefully (and repeatedly) makes the distinction.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 9:44 am
From: spamtrap1888

On Nov 17, 3:45 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> Picky point...
>
> Chili is the dish. Chiles are the peppers. There's an episode of "Good Eats"
> that carefully (and repeatedly) makes the distinction.

I'm trying to bridge the Atlantic here. Further, "Good Eats" doesn't
know what they're talking about.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 9:59 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"spamtrap1888" <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5c4a0bd-2a13-4458-b5b5-12e316845c3a@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 17, 3:45 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>> Picky point...
>> Chili is the dish. Chiles are the peppers. There's an episode of "Good
Eats"
>> that carefully (and repeatedly) makes the distinction.

> I'm trying to bridge the Atlantic here. Further, "Good Eats" doesn't
> know what they're talking about.

In the US, the usage I gave is correct. Chili (sometimes called chili con
carne) is the dish, a kind of beef stew, and the chile is the pepper. What
caused this divergence, I don't know.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 12:53 pm
From: greenpjs@neo.rr.com

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:59:01 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

>"spamtrap1888" <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:b5c4a0bd-2a13-4458-b5b5-12e316845c3a@u24g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
>On Nov 17, 3:45 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> Picky point...
>>> Chili is the dish. Chiles are the peppers. There's an episode of "Good
>Eats"
>>> that carefully (and repeatedly) makes the distinction.
>
>> I'm trying to bridge the Atlantic here. Further, "Good Eats" doesn't
>> know what they're talking about.
>
>In the US, the usage I gave is correct. Chili (sometimes called chili con
>carne) is the dish, a kind of beef stew, and the chile is the pepper. What
>caused this divergence, I don't know.
>
Huh? Yes, chili is a stew made with chili peppers. Often, it
includes meat as in chili con carne (literally translated from Spanish
as chili with meat). Chile is a country in South America.

Alternate spellings of the pepper are chilli and chile, but in the US,
the pepper and the stew are *normally* spelled the same way in spite
of what "Good Eats" said.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 1:12 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

<greenpjs@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1jsac7t6c9atr3fmflc667tgpp80ocg035@4ax.com...

> Alternate spellings of the pepper are chilli and chile, but in the US,
> the pepper and the stew are *normally* spelled the same way in spite
> of what "Good Eats" said.

I mean no offense, but that is absolutely not correct. The differentiation
has been around for years.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: D-Logik HD66
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3401167a071d177c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 6:39 am
From: "N_Cook"

Ron <ron@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:QqudnVSbeK8aKl7TnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d@bt.com...
> D-Logik HD66
>
> Does anyone have any experience with this cheapo budget projector.
>
> At switch on, the lamp lights and the fan runs but neither the panel
> buttons nor the remote control have no effect. There are no graphics
> displayed, just a bright white raster. The unit will not switch off via
> the shutdown button.
>
> Does anyone know if there's a reset sequence?
>
> I stopped doing repairs some time back and I'm only looking at this
> because it belongs to a friend. I don't intend to spend much time on it.
>
> Ron (UK)

Have to hope for a missing "digital" V on the ps and overlay V designations
at a header

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 9:06 am
From: klem kedidelhopper

On Nov 16, 5:17 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...@btconnect.com>
wrote:
> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e13da6f1-739c-4ffb-a2bf-6fc0a1dce7af@m7g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
> > cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
> > great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
> > probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
> > of these? Thanks, Lenny
>
> My method would be first to measure the power supplies at the smt op-amp
> pins to make sure they are there.
>
> Second to make sure there is an output from the cartridge to the circuitry -
> inject a signal into the circuitry to check this, or just your finger to
> make a buzz.
>
> If none of the above you are indeed probably wasting your time.
>
> Gareth.

The power supply appears to be working. I'm not certain its putting
out the correct voltages, but I'll look at it again. I have a feeling
though that this pos is just another throw away. Thanks, Lenny

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 2:27 pm
From: "Gareth Magennis"

"klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d6714aa8-4427-4952-978c-ba571db08e61@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 16, 5:17 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...@btconnect.com>
> wrote:
>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:e13da6f1-739c-4ffb-a2bf-6fc0a1dce7af@m7g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
>> > cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
>> > great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
>> > probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
>> > of these? Thanks, Lenny
>>
>> My method would be first to measure the power supplies at the smt op-amp
>> pins to make sure they are there.
>>
>> Second to make sure there is an output from the cartridge to the
>> circuitry -
>> inject a signal into the circuitry to check this, or just your finger to
>> make a buzz.
>>
>> If none of the above you are indeed probably wasting your time.
>>
>> Gareth.
>
> The power supply appears to be working. I'm not certain its putting
> out the correct voltages, but I'll look at it again. I have a feeling
> though that this pos is just another throw away. Thanks, Lenny

Yes, power supply is a likely candidate - find the regulators for the
digital stuff, there may be 2 or 3 different voltages required, unlike the
old days when everything ran off 5v.

Gareth.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 3:03 pm
From: b

On Nov 16, 10:07 pm, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
> cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
> great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
> probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
> of these? Thanks, Lenny

If all else fails, bypass the circuitry and just wire the cartridge up
to the RCA output sockets, then you can use the deck like a 'normal
'TT with any amp having a Phono input.

-b

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 3:50 pm
From: klem kedidelhopper

On Nov 17, 6:03 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 16, 10:07 pm, klem kedidelhopper <captainvideo462...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Got this thing in for repair. It has no output from either the RCA
> > cables on line or phono out or the USB out. The interface board has a
> > great deal of smt circuitry on it and I'm thinking that this is
> > probably a waste of time but I had to ask. Anyone ever worked on one
> > of these? Thanks, Lenny
>
> If all else fails, bypass the circuitry and just wire the cartridge up
> to the RCA output sockets, then you can use the deck like a 'normal
> 'TT with any amp having a Phono input.
>
> -b

I would do it if it was mine but I don't think the customer has a
stereo system. Lenny

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 6:05 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> If all else fails, bypass the circuitry and just wire the cartridge up
> to the RCA output sockets, then you can use the deck like a 'normal
> 'TT with any amp having a Phono input.

This unit probably has a ceramic pickup. If so, that won't work.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wanted: HP 3746A power transformer
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e114a2ee536e13be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 1:11 pm
From: Curtiss Wright

Wanted to buy: Power transformer for HP 3746A Selective Level
Measuring Set, HP p/n 03746-80101.

Thanks,

Curtiss

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 1:27 pm
From: Robert Macy

On IBM's Thinkpad T22 there are mounting screws that are covered by
black color-matching plastic 'covers' These covers provide a
csometically flush surface over the top of the screws. The covers
appear to 'glued' in place with double sided tape?

The cap covers along the bottom were oval shaped and came off by
gently pushing in the middle, distorting its shape. Once distorted it
was easy to then lift it out of the hole by inserting into the gap the
side of a single edge razor blade. The covers covering the hinge
screws again came out easily due to their oval shape.

However, now I'm faced with bezel screws which have round covers.
These covers I'll be looking at every time I use this thing in the
future, so don't want to destroy the covers.

Thus, the question, is there some secret to getting these cap covers
out without destroying them?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 2:40 pm
From: Baron

Robert Macy Inscribed thus:

> On IBM's Thinkpad T22 there are mounting screws that are covered by
> black color-matching plastic 'covers' These covers provide a
> csometically flush surface over the top of the screws. The covers
> appear to 'glued' in place with double sided tape?
>
> The cap covers along the bottom were oval shaped and came off by
> gently pushing in the middle, distorting its shape. Once distorted it
> was easy to then lift it out of the hole by inserting into the gap the
> side of a single edge razor blade. The covers covering the hinge
> screws again came out easily due to their oval shape.
>
> However, now I'm faced with bezel screws which have round covers.
> These covers I'll be looking at every time I use this thing in the
> future, so don't want to destroy the covers.
>
> Thus, the question, is there some secret to getting these cap covers
> out without destroying them?

I use a watchmakers screwdriver, carefully. :-)
They are also stuck in with DS tape.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 4:22 pm
From: Winston

Robert Macy wrote:
> On IBM's Thinkpad T22 there are mounting screws that are covered by
> black color-matching plastic 'covers' These covers provide a
> csometically flush surface over the top of the screws. The covers
> appear to 'glued' in place with double sided tape?

See pages 122 and 125:
http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/62p9631.pdf

'Looks like you have to insert the tip of an
X-Acto 11 blade and pry them off.
It will probably uglify the screw caps though.

Luckily, the caps are sold as part of P/N 26P9654
for 22 bux including shipping:
eBay 380113424356

Screw kit (including nylon-coated screws) for T20,
T21, T22 and T23 series:
v M2.5 x 14 mm, bind head (15)
v M2.5 x 11.5 mm, flat head (5)
v M2.5 x 4.8 mm, flat head (20)
v M2.5 x 3.5 mm, flat head (10)
v M2.0 x 13.5 mm, pan head (15)
v M2..0 x 4.0 mm, small head (10)
v Hex stud D-sub (10)
v Coin screw (1)
v Security screw (1)
v Blank cap, enhanced port (5)
v Screw caps, rear (5)
v Screw caps (5)
v Screw caps (painted) (10)
v Screw caps (not painted, thin) (10)
v Screw caps (not painted) (5)

--Winston

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 4:30 pm
From: Matthew Fries

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:27:31 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

>On IBM's Thinkpad T22 there are mounting screws that are covered by
>black color-matching plastic 'covers' These covers provide a
>csometically flush surface over the top of the screws. The covers
>appear to 'glued' in place with double sided tape?
>
>The cap covers along the bottom were oval shaped and came off by
>gently pushing in the middle, distorting its shape. Once distorted it
>was easy to then lift it out of the hole by inserting into the gap the
>side of a single edge razor blade. The covers covering the hinge
>screws again came out easily due to their oval shape.
>
>However, now I'm faced with bezel screws which have round covers.
>These covers I'll be looking at every time I use this thing in the
>future, so don't want to destroy the covers.
>
>Thus, the question, is there some secret to getting these cap covers
>out without destroying them?

When the authorized service centers repair the laptops, they usually
have to order (or have on hand) replacement adhesive covers. I find
this a waste of money and product to have to buy something every time
you open the laptop.

I found that on most laptops, a hole punch and some double-sided
sticky tape works great.

Or maybe some rubber cement.

Thanks.

Remove the BALONEY from my email address.
-----------------------------------------------------
Matthew Fries Minneapolis, MN USA
freeze@baloneyvisi.com

"Quit eating all my *STUFF*!" - The Tick

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 5:11 pm
From: Rich Webb

On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:27:31 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

>On IBM's Thinkpad T22 there are mounting screws that are covered by
>black color-matching plastic 'covers' These covers provide a
>csometically flush surface over the top of the screws. The covers
>appear to 'glued' in place with double sided tape?
>
>The cap covers along the bottom were oval shaped and came off by
>gently pushing in the middle, distorting its shape. Once distorted it
>was easy to then lift it out of the hole by inserting into the gap the
>side of a single edge razor blade. The covers covering the hinge
>screws again came out easily due to their oval shape.
>
>However, now I'm faced with bezel screws which have round covers.
>These covers I'll be looking at every time I use this thing in the
>future, so don't want to destroy the covers.
>
>Thus, the question, is there some secret to getting these cap covers
>out without destroying them?

Try drilling a small hole through the center and use a dental pick or
similar to carefully pop it off. Cleaner and less noticeable than the
chewed-up appearance that often results from prying at the edges.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 1:35 pm
From: Robert Macy

On Oct 31, 7:28 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Robert Macy wrote:
>
> > The power supply that goes to the IBM ThinkPad T22 got wet!
>
> > arcing sounds, zsst! does not work now. Internally found a blown
> > pigtail fuse. plus, [and this does NOT bode well] blackened PCB areas
> > around AC mains traces.
>
> > The pigtail fuse does not appear to be simple physical caps going over
> > the 8AG type but solidly attached to the metal end caps. Plus, and
> > this ALWAYS happens, the value is UNDER the fuse body and is not
> > accessible. I'd like to simply put asimilarly rated fuse in parallel
> > to check if the problem is only the fuse, but don't know the amperage.
>
> > Anybody know the rating? The main unit is in the range of 16V 3.36A
> > so the fuse could be 1 to 2A, but the wire laying down inside looks
> > heavier. Maybe the fuse is in series with the output ? and is more
> > like 5 to 10A ??
>
> > Anybody have a manual, or URL to find out?
>
> You can get new power supply on Ebay for $8.
>
> <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nk...>
>
> --
> You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Thank you, that's the FIRST time I've bought on eBay.

Cost 8.95 total cost, very prompt arrival with their expenditure for
shipping 3.28 !! labeled made in China, does NOT have the AC plugged
in LED, but at these prices, I can live without it.

Seems to work, the laptop display is still defunct.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 1:45 pm
From: Robert Macy

On Nov 1, 8:52 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 07:59:26 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
>
> <robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 31, 8:19 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >> <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=thinkpad+t22+power+supply>
> >thank you for the URL, I'm not familiar with using eBay, especially
> >since I avoid eBay like the plague.
> >but this time, ....any experiences with any of these suppliers?
>
> I resell about 10 assorted laptop style power supplies per month. They
> don't come from any specific vendor on eBay. In general, the quality
> is identical to what you get from the OEM manufacturer. That's because
> they are the same power supplies used by OEM. There may be
> differences in labeling and inspection, but that's about all. I've had
> no failures or quality problems that I can recall, but I have had some
> overheating problems with "universal" supplies, that come with a
> variety of tips to fit any laptop. In this case, the T22 power supply
> uses the same voltage and tip as many HP and Compaq laptops, resulting
> in huge production quantities, and very low prices. If you plan to
> continue immersing your power supplies, I suggest purchasing a few
> spares. Also, I suggest you get over your phobia of buying on eBay.
> For what it's worth, I get better service from most of the small eBay
> vendors, than I get from the major online vendors. If eBay and/or
> Paypal have somehow offended you, try Amazon:
> <http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&f...>
>
> >Yes, there is a pigtail fuse inside. just can't read the value on the
> >UNDERSIDE!
>
> Then guess. Read the nameplate for the maximum 117VAC current.
> Multiply that by 2 and you have the fuse rating. You could also
> visually compare the visible fuse wire diameter with those from your
> fuse collection. My power supply says 1.5A maximum at 117VAC. So, a
> 2A or 3A sounds about right.
>
> >Don't even want to start taking it apart if the rest is dead.
>
> If you're going to try and fix it, first dry it out thoroughly. That
> doesn't mean blow some compressed air around the insides. It means
> let it sit for days in a warm place to be sure everything has
> evaporated. If the immersion was in potentially corrosive liquid, a
> clean water wash will be needed. I've fixed several computers, that
> were were partly immersed in a tub of rusty water for about a month,
> by simply washing the guts, and letting them dry thoroughly. After a
> blow dry, they wouldn't run. After a month to let everything
> evaporate, all three recovered nicely.
>
> If you plan to probe the insides, make sure you use a 117v isolation
> transformer. Both ends of the 300v switching section are floating
> above ground. If you don't know how to deal with such voltages and
> careful grounding, then don't try to fix it. The life you save may be
> your own.
>
> However, for a $10 replacement cost, I wouldn't bother trying to fix
> it.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Bought one of those SMPS on eBay, first time to use eBay. total cost
8.95, arrived fast and they paid 3.28 to ship! labeled China, has no
LED plug in indicator, but that's ok.

The laptop boots up, beeps because the date is set to 1981 [can't see
the screen, backlight is OUT, just know the significance of the beep]
Conclusion SMPS works, laptop basically works. just no screen!

So following the T22 manual dissassembled down to the LCD screen,
could not see anything that looked like liquid and dried salts, so
don't know what's still wrong. Flushed with distilled water anywy and
will let dry. Will see later if that brings it back.

Is the 'inverter card' the ps for the backlight? is it touchy and
blows easily?

If I can find a way to remove the cap covers over the screws without
destroying the cap covers, I'll take out the invreter board and look
at it to see if any obvious damage. Or ohm out the terminals on the
main switching transistor to see if it got toasted. Any ideas?

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 2:42 pm
From: Baron

Robert Macy Inscribed thus:

> On Nov 1, 8:52 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 07:59:26 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
>>
>> <robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Oct 31, 8:19 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> >> <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=thinkpad+t22+power+supply>
>> >thank you for the URL, I'm not familiar with using eBay, especially
>> >since I avoid eBay like the plague.
>> >but this time, ....any experiences with any of these suppliers?
>>
>> I resell about 10 assorted laptop style power supplies per month.
>> They don't come from any specific vendor on eBay. In general, the
>> quality is identical to what you get from the OEM manufacturer.
>> That's because they are the same power supplies used by OEM. There
>> may be differences in labeling and inspection, but that's about all.
>> I've had no failures or quality problems that I can recall, but I
>> have had some overheating problems with "universal" supplies, that
>> come with a variety of tips to fit any laptop. In this case, the T22
>> power supply uses the same voltage and tip as many HP and Compaq
>> laptops, resulting in huge production quantities, and very low
>> prices. If you plan to continue immersing your power supplies, I
>> suggest purchasing a few spares. Also, I suggest you get over your
>> phobia of buying on eBay. For what it's worth, I get better service
>> from most of the small eBay vendors, than I get from the major online
>> vendors. If eBay and/or Paypal have somehow offended you, try
>> Amazon:
>>
<http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&f...>
>>
>> >Yes, there is a pigtail fuse inside. just can't read the value on
>> >the UNDERSIDE!
>>
>> Then guess. Read the nameplate for the maximum 117VAC current.
>> Multiply that by 2 and you have the fuse rating. You could also
>> visually compare the visible fuse wire diameter with those from your
>> fuse collection. My power supply says 1.5A maximum at 117VAC. So, a
>> 2A or 3A sounds about right.
>>
>> >Don't even want to start taking it apart if the rest is dead.
>>
>> If you're going to try and fix it, first dry it out thoroughly. That
>> doesn't mean blow some compressed air around the insides. It means
>> let it sit for days in a warm place to be sure everything has
>> evaporated. If the immersion was in potentially corrosive liquid, a
>> clean water wash will be needed. I've fixed several computers, that
>> were were partly immersed in a tub of rusty water for about a month,
>> by simply washing the guts, and letting them dry thoroughly. After a
>> blow dry, they wouldn't run. After a month to let everything
>> evaporate, all three recovered nicely.
>>
>> If you plan to probe the insides, make sure you use a 117v isolation
>> transformer. Both ends of the 300v switching section are floating
>> above ground. If you don't know how to deal with such voltages and
>> careful grounding, then don't try to fix it. The life you save may
>> be your own.
>>
>> However, for a $10 replacement cost, I wouldn't bother trying to fix
>> it.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> Bought one of those SMPS on eBay, first time to use eBay. total cost
> 8.95, arrived fast and they paid 3.28 to ship! labeled China, has no
> LED plug in indicator, but that's ok.
>
> The laptop boots up, beeps because the date is set to 1981 [can't see
> the screen, backlight is OUT, just know the significance of the beep]
> Conclusion SMPS works, laptop basically works. just no screen!
>
> So following the T22 manual dissassembled down to the LCD screen,
> could not see anything that looked like liquid and dried salts, so
> don't know what's still wrong. Flushed with distilled water anywy and
> will let dry. Will see later if that brings it back.
>
> Is the 'inverter card' the ps for the backlight? is it touchy and
> blows easily?
>
> If I can find a way to remove the cap covers over the screws without
> destroying the cap covers, I'll take out the invreter board and look
> at it to see if any obvious damage. Or ohm out the terminals on the
> main switching transistor to see if it got toasted. Any ideas?

Plug an external monitor into the machine. See if you have video output.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 3:30 pm
From: mike

Robert Macy wrote:
> On Nov 1, 8:52 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 07:59:26 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
>>
>> <robert.a.m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 31, 8:19 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>>> <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=thinkpad+t22+power+supply>
>>> thank you for the URL, I'm not familiar with using eBay, especially
>>> since I avoid eBay like the plague.
>>> but this time, ....any experiences with any of these suppliers?
>> I resell about 10 assorted laptop style power supplies per month. They
>> don't come from any specific vendor on eBay. In general, the quality
>> is identical to what you get from the OEM manufacturer. That's because
>> they are the same power supplies used by OEM. There may be
>> differences in labeling and inspection, but that's about all. I've had
>> no failures or quality problems that I can recall, but I have had some
>> overheating problems with "universal" supplies, that come with a
>> variety of tips to fit any laptop. In this case, the T22 power supply
>> uses the same voltage and tip as many HP and Compaq laptops, resulting
>> in huge production quantities, and very low prices. If you plan to
>> continue immersing your power supplies, I suggest purchasing a few
>> spares. Also, I suggest you get over your phobia of buying on eBay.
>> For what it's worth, I get better service from most of the small eBay
>> vendors, than I get from the major online vendors. If eBay and/or
>> Paypal have somehow offended you, try Amazon:
>> <http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dcomputers&f...>
>>
>>> Yes, there is a pigtail fuse inside. just can't read the value on the
>>> UNDERSIDE!
>> Then guess. Read the nameplate for the maximum 117VAC current.
>> Multiply that by 2 and you have the fuse rating. You could also
>> visually compare the visible fuse wire diameter with those from your
>> fuse collection. My power supply says 1.5A maximum at 117VAC. So, a
>> 2A or 3A sounds about right.
>>
>>> Don't even want to start taking it apart if the rest is dead.
>> If you're going to try and fix it, first dry it out thoroughly. That
>> doesn't mean blow some compressed air around the insides. It means
>> let it sit for days in a warm place to be sure everything has
>> evaporated. If the immersion was in potentially corrosive liquid, a
>> clean water wash will be needed. I've fixed several computers, that
>> were were partly immersed in a tub of rusty water for about a month,
>> by simply washing the guts, and letting them dry thoroughly. After a
>> blow dry, they wouldn't run. After a month to let everything
>> evaporate, all three recovered nicely.
>>
>> If you plan to probe the insides, make sure you use a 117v isolation
>> transformer. Both ends of the 300v switching section are floating
>> above ground. If you don't know how to deal with such voltages and
>> careful grounding, then don't try to fix it. The life you save may be
>> your own.
>>
>> However, for a $10 replacement cost, I wouldn't bother trying to fix
>> it.
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> Bought one of those SMPS on eBay, first time to use eBay. total cost
> 8.95, arrived fast and they paid 3.28 to ship! labeled China, has no
> LED plug in indicator, but that's ok.
>
> The laptop boots up, beeps because the date is set to 1981 [can't see
> the screen, backlight is OUT, just know the significance of the beep]
> Conclusion SMPS works, laptop basically works. just no screen!
>
> So following the T22 manual dissassembled down to the LCD screen,
> could not see anything that looked like liquid and dried salts, so
> don't know what's still wrong. Flushed with distilled water anywy and
> will let dry. Will see later if that brings it back.

Flushed WHAT with distilled water?

Does the display work on an external monitor?
Make sure you don't have the display turned off.
Make sure the cmos battery is good and that you've
reset the BIOS defaults. With dumpster laptops of unknown
provenance, I've seen BIOS parameter corruption cause all
manner of weird symptoms.
Had one laptop that refused to do anything until I unsoldered
the cmos battery then put it back.

>
> Is the 'inverter card' the ps for the backlight? is it touchy and
> blows easily?
Not unless you flush the high voltage transformer with water.
But the inverter and lamp are the weakest links.
>
> If I can find a way to remove the cap covers over the screws without
> destroying the cap covers, I'll take out the invreter board and look
> at it to see if any obvious damage. Or ohm out the terminals on the
> main switching transistor to see if it got toasted. Any ideas?

Depending on the inverter topology, you may not be able to ohm out the
transistors. You'd be looking at the transformer.

It takes a lot of volts to strike a fluorescent backlight. I the lamp
cracks, it doesn't strike and limit the voltage. Increased voltage
can arc the HV transformer or spike the fets. Even if the engineer
were conscientious and protected against that, the bean counters
might have been more concerned with saving two cents than limiting a
secondary failure mode.
End result is that a new inverter might fail if the lamp is bad.
Testing the lamp first is safest, but there's no easy way to do that
with tools in your toolbox. Substituting another lamp works, but
there are connector compatibility issues.
Risk is gonna vary considerably by vendor and specific design.

As an aside...at a garage sale, I found a device that emits RF
used to test fluorescent lamps. I thought this would solve the lamp
testing problem. Tested it on a lamp removed from a display and
it worked great.
After thinking about it, I got very concerned about
the RF blowing up the column drivers while I was testing
a lamp still inside the LCD assembly, so never tried it.

Check the DC into the inverter first.
I've seen pinched display cables.
Also had one laptop that had a display power fuse on the motherboard
near the graphics chip. Looked like a SMT cap. Took me a while to
realize it was a fuse.

The inverter puts out high voltage. There might be enough charge
left on the capacitance of the lamp and the series capacitor to make
a wet spot on your chair. The voltage probably won't hurt you, but
the stuff you bang into or trip over while trying to get away might.
40 years ago, I scratched a cornea on an antenna wire I flipped up
while flying out the back of a TV set. ;-)

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 17 2011 5:40 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Robert Macy" <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e272b350-4346-486d-b11c-0666a031ee22@p9g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 31, 7:28 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>> Robert Macy wrote:
>>
>> > The power supply that goes to the IBM ThinkPad T22 got wet!
>>
>> > arcing sounds, zsst! does not work now. Internally found a blown
>> > pigtail fuse. plus, [and this does NOT bode well] blackened PCB areas
>> > around AC mains traces.
>>
>> > The pigtail fuse does not appear to be simple physical caps going over
>> > the 8AG type but solidly attached to the metal end caps. Plus, and
>> > this ALWAYS happens, the value is UNDER the fuse body and is not
>> > accessible. I'd like to simply put asimilarly rated fuse in parallel
>> > to check if the problem is only the fuse, but don't know the amperage.
>>
>> > Anybody know the rating? The main unit is in the range of 16V 3.36A
>> > so the fuse could be 1 to 2A, but the wire laying down inside looks
>> > heavier. Maybe the fuse is in series with the output ? and is more
>> > like 5 to 10A ??
>>
>> > Anybody have a manual, or URL to find out?
>>
>> You can get new power supply on Ebay for $8.
>>
>> <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nk...>
>>
>> --
>> You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
>
> Thank you, that's the FIRST time I've bought on eBay.
>
> Cost 8.95 total cost, very prompt arrival with their expenditure for
> shipping 3.28 !! labeled made in China, does NOT have the AC plugged
> in LED, but at these prices, I can live without it.
>
> Seems to work, the laptop display is still defunct.

I buy from eBay all the time. I often find that components that I can't
source from my regular mainstream suppliers, are readily available from eBay
shops. Sometimes, you wait a few days when the 'shop' is in China or
Singapore or wherever, but it's worth living with that to be able to get the
bits. I can honestly say that I've never had a problem with any item that
I've bought. A couple of weeks back, my HP printer was showing that the
yellow ink had run out - again - and was refusing to print in colour as a
result. The cartridges are about 7 UKP a pop, and there are six of the
buggers. The 'high capacity' black, which still contains pitifully little
ink, is even more expensive. A few months back, I needed a couple of
colours, and the local store had run out of them both, so I did what I have
never dared do before, and bought a couple of no-brand compatibles from a
printer ink shop in the town. They weren't actually very much cheaper than
the real thing, but I have to say that they did work ok.

So when the yellow ran out again last week, I decided to have a look on
eBay. I found a UK shop located up in the northeast, selling a kit of 12 -
yes that's twelve! - cartridges, for 7.99 UKP total (!!) with free postage
!! I had to read it several times. Not only is this two complete sets, the
colour ones are 18 ml content, and the black is a 45 ml. The blurb says that
they are guaranteed for 12 months, and are fitted with the 'high capacity'
identifier chip.

I ordered them at 2am. By 8am, they were showing as 'shipped', and they
arrived in the post first thing the next morning. Each cartridge is
individually vacuum wrapped. For sure, there is a lot of Chinese writing on
the packets, so I guess that's where they come from, but hey, who cares ?
Not me, that's for sure. Anyway, I put the yellow in, and the machine
accepted it without question, and has indeed registered it correctly as a
high capacity cartridge. So far, it has performed faultlessly. The dark
magenta started to issue warnings that it was getting low today, so I guess
that will be the next one to go in.

I think that as long as you are sensible with eBay dealings, and take note
of the feedback that's been given to a seller by his customers, there's no
need to fear using it, at all.

Arfa

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sci.electronics.repair - 11 new messages in 6 topics - digest

2011-11-16T00:33:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* HP Photosmart C8180 All-In-One repaired - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/93d07d1a1ef901b0?hl=en
* Useful Resource ... - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4ffeeabe6ce63f45?hl=en
* For easy Website Study - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/249558f2c1cd41f5?hl=en
* Hoist brake solenoid buzzes/fluckers instead of steadily pulling - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4fc90a76b7174fce?hl=en
* home-brew Freon TF substitutes? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f66a71610e41b61d?hl=en
* Flat belt mechanics - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9f62768eb91d218d?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HP Photosmart C8180 All-In-One repaired
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/93d07d1a1ef901b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 10:56 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:02:43 GMT, Ray Carlsen <rcarlsen@tds.net> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

>Device: HP Model C8180 Photosmart All-In-One Printer/Scanner/Copier
>
>Fault: When plugged in, it power cycles over and over by itself. No
>functions work including Reset (holding power button at AC in).
>
>Repair: Replace four electrolytic capacitors on the internal power
>supply board: C613 and C660 (330uF at 10V), C614 and C662 (680uF at
>6.3V).

Thanks for sharing.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 5:41 am
From: Adrian C

On 14/11/2011 16:49, Arfa Daily wrote:
> Site I came across today, whilst searching for a Rotel schematic.
>
> http://audio-circuit.dk/Schematics.htm
>
> Hadn't seen it before. Seems to have quite a lot of useful stuff on it.
>

Mmmmmmm Free Schematic Porn ..... ;-)

--
Not Me

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 9:29 am
From: spamtrap1888

On Nov 14, 8:49 am, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Site I came across today, whilst searching for a Rotel schematic.
>
> http://audio-circuit.dk/Schematics.htm
>
> Hadn't seen it before. Seems to have quite a lot of useful stuff on it.
>

Many thanks for this pointer.

I downloaded two Crown (Amcron) schematics and one service manual. The
quality varied but you get what you pay for, I suppose.

Pardon me but when I see "Rotel" I always think of this canned tomato
and chillie concoction:

http://www.texmex.net/Graphics/rotel.gif

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 5:40 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"spamtrap1888" <spamtrap1888@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f3712d80-e64f-42f3-9b9f-e9617cd43243@l23g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 14, 8:49 am, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Site I came across today, whilst searching for a Rotel schematic.
>>
>> http://audio-circuit.dk/Schematics.htm
>>
>> Hadn't seen it before. Seems to have quite a lot of useful stuff on it.
>>
>
> Many thanks for this pointer.
>
> I downloaded two Crown (Amcron) schematics and one service manual. The
> quality varied but you get what you pay for, I suppose.
>
> Pardon me but when I see "Rotel" I always think of this canned tomato
> and chillie concoction:
>
> http://www.texmex.net/Graphics/rotel.gif

Excellent ! Must be a left-pondian product. Don't think I've ever seen it
over here

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For easy Website Study
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/249558f2c1cd41f5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 8:30 am
From: Scott Smith

Link Information Link URL Link Design Website Links
Link Grabber Link Grabber Link Grabber Link Grabber
Link Lister Link Lister Link Lister Link Lister
For easy Website Study
Link Grabber Professioal Ver. 1.0
Capture over 2500 Links Per Second
Instantly download any sites links in seconds
Instantly access the links by clicking on them
Can record Links on any other page clicked on instantly
Lists to a Textbox and Listbox for easy Editing
Includes a Link counters and Load / Save Functions
http://www.binaural.info/linkgrabberpro/lgpro.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hoist brake solenoid buzzes/fluckers instead of steadily pulling
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4fc90a76b7174fce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 3:03 pm
From: Jamie

hrhofmann@att.net wrote:

> On Nov 14, 7:35 pm, Jamie
> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>>
>>>On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus <grendel...@aim.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>>
>>>>>The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
>>>>>for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
>>>>>transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>>
>>>>>i
>>
>>>>Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
>>>>like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?
>>
>>>>Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
>>>>started to act up with the brake solenoid?
>>
>>>I bought it at auction.
>>
>>>I have never seen this hoist run.
>>
>>>At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
>>>could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).
>>
>>>i
>>
>>Ok, so what is the original coil voltage suppose to be? 230 or 480?
>>
>> You do know that many of those types of devices that allow you to
>>rewire uses the same coil for both voltages? Normally the coil is
>>spec'd out for 230V AC.. which will work in either case, it's just
>>where you connect the wires to.
>>
>> Jamie- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> Has the OP ever said if there are two or three or how many wires going
> to the solenoid????
From what I can remember, it's a simple 2 wire solenoid.. That being the
case, they should be connected to the # 1 & 2 wires of the motor relay
output side M1,M2. If it was wired for 480, then the coil is connected
to the #4 and #5 for example. That will get half the voltage when the
motor operates. Standard for AC motors with add on brake on the back..

Jamie

==============================================================================
TOPIC: home-brew Freon TF substitutes?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f66a71610e41b61d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 3:35 pm
From: Cydrome Leader

Orson Cart <ex-privat@parts.org> wrote:
>
> isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>At least some (perhaps not all) methylated hydrocarbons are completely
>>
>>non-flammable, and also are heavier than water and will not mix with
>>it.
>>I am sure that is true of methylene chloride.
>>
>>Be careful, though; it is a powerful solvent, removing, among other
>>
>>things, *all* the oil from your skin, if you have much contact with
>>it.
>>It is absorbed through the skin, too, and hurts/burns.
>>
>>It may also neatly soften or dissolve a lot of the plastics used in
>>
>>electronics; I don't know.
>>
>>Isaac
>
> Methylene chloride is definitely not for electronic components.
> It is used a paint stripper. I am sure it would require rinsing
> off quickly with another solvent, otherwise your PCB would be
> fuggered.
> The sadly-missed chloro/fluoro-carbon cleaners would not damage the useful
> stuff like plastics, rubber, lacquer, metal, paper et ecetera.

plus they didn't leave condensation- not really sure how they evporated
and took the water with them.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 4:17 pm
From: Jim Yanik

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in
news:j9ut0k$a1s$2@reader1.panix.com:

> Orson Cart <ex-privat@parts.org> wrote:
>>
>> isw <isw@witzend.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>At least some (perhaps not all) methylated hydrocarbons are
>>>completely
>>>
>>>non-flammable, and also are heavier than water and will not mix with
>>>it.
>>>I am sure that is true of methylene chloride.
>>>
>>>Be careful, though; it is a powerful solvent, removing, among other
>>>
>>>things, *all* the oil from your skin, if you have much contact with
>>>it.
>>>It is absorbed through the skin, too, and hurts/burns.
>>>
>>>It may also neatly soften or dissolve a lot of the plastics used in
>>>
>>>electronics; I don't know.
>>>
>>>Isaac
>>
>> Methylene chloride is definitely not for electronic components.
>> It is used a paint stripper. I am sure it would require rinsing
>> off quickly with another solvent, otherwise your PCB would be
>> fuggered.
>> The sadly-missed chloro/fluoro-carbon cleaners would not damage the
>> useful stuff like plastics, rubber, lacquer, metal, paper et ecetera.
>
> plus they didn't leave condensation- not really sure how they
> evporated and took the water with them.
>
>
>

try CRC mass air flow sensor cleaner,#05110. no residue.
get it as Wal-Mart,or auto stores.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 5:07 pm
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

In article <j9ut0k$a1s$2@reader1.panix.com>,
Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

>> Methylene chloride is definitely not for electronic components.
>> It is used a paint stripper. I am sure it would require rinsing
>> off quickly with another solvent, otherwise your PCB would be
>> fuggered.

Burns like hell if it gets on your skin, too.

>> The sadly-missed chloro/fluoro-carbon cleaners would not damage the useful
>> stuff like plastics, rubber, lacquer, metal, paper et ecetera.
>
>plus they didn't leave condensation- not really sure how they evporated
>and took the water with them.

I'd guess that they had a low heat of vaporization... they didn't have
to "steal" much energy per volume in order to evaporate. This would
minimize the degree to which the surface is cooled, and thus reduce
the chance of dropping it to the dew point and causing condensation.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 15 2011 5:38 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

Not all CFCs are equally effective at destroying ozone. Is it possible there
are still cleaners using these "less-effective" Freons?

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 16 2011 12:11 am
From: "N_Cook"

I don't remember seeing this before. Instead of baluster/bulbous pulley or
capstan, two angled faces with a thin ridge in the centre on the drive
pinion. So the belt must ride on the ridge but why does it not hunt about?
There is a limiting flange either side of the angled flats and the width of
the rubber band is greater than the distance between a flange and the
central ridge, but still why no riding about?. Then what I thought was crude
construction is probably part of the dynamics. The capstan is 2 discs fitted
together but one is 49.94mm diameter and the other 50.04mm so this step
change must make sure the band rides over the ridge but biased to one side,
lightly touching one angled face, but not touching a limiting flange. When I
get the mechanism working again I will try viewing with a xenon strobe light
. Anyone any input on this ? more or less prone to changes in rubber
restitution/stretch etc, more/less likely to come of when PTO is engaged,
greater/less accuracy in speed of drive with varying driven-side back torque
etc.

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sci.electronics.repair - 23 new messages in 8 topics - digest

2011-11-15T00:30:00.000-08:00

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 13 2011 10:39 pm
From: "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)"

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 11:47:07 -0600, Ignoramus22978
<ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:

>On 2011-11-13, BQ340 <bq340@Adelphia.net> wrote:
>> On 11/13/2011 10:21 AM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>>
>>>> I am thinking that perhaps this solenoid has two separate coils,
>>>> pulling and holding one, and the holding one is not working or not
>>>> engaging?
>>>>
>>>> Any idea?
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>
>> There would be more than 2 terminals on it if it had multiple windings.
>>
>> MikeB
>>
>
>OK, I kind of suspected that also (based on my past diesel generator
>experiences).

Yup, it's just a standard box solenoid, probably Dormeyer they make
zillions of them - and all crapped up inside that end-bell. If it was
something fancy it would look it.

Take it apart and clean up all the sliding and metal surfaces, a
little dab of Lubriplate white grease on the moving pole pieces inside
the solenoid, and hit it with some clear-coat to stop the surface rust
on the metal parts - and stop leaving it outside in the rain.

You do NOT want to pull an "Honest Al Babin" and start painting all
over the insides. You want to see if something is starting to crack.

--<< Bruce >>--

== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 12:37 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:52:52 -0600, Ignoramus22978
<ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:

>On 2011-11-13, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:00:33 -0600, Ignoramus22978
>><ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>I have a 3 phase Yale 1/2 ton hoist. It has an electric brake with a
>>>solenoid, whose job is to pull away the brake lever when 230VAC is
>>>supplied to it.
>>>
>>>The problem is that it does not do it. Instead of steadily pulling
>>>away, it constantly jerks the lever, but never far enough to the end
>>>point where it is supposed to be pulled away. So, the brake is not
>>>disengaged as the hoist operates. I am glad that I noticed that.
>>>
>>>I tried pulling on the lever by hand when the solenoid was engaged. I
>>>noticed that if I help the solenoid and pull away the lever to the
>>>end, jerking stops completely, but if I slowly let go of the lever and
>>>it returns to the brake position, jerking resumes.
>>>
>>>I am thinking that perhaps this solenoid has two separate coils,
>>>pulling and holding one, and the holding one is not working or not
>>>engaging?
>>>
>>>Any idea?
>>>
>>>thanks
>>
>> Check to see if its not wired up for 440/480
>>
>> Most of those hoists are dual voltage and while they will run on 220 if
>> wired for 440..the solenoids most often will not
>
>The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
>for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
>transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>
>i

No..it means you didnt get everything changed over to 240. Check your
diagrams again. Something is still trying to run at 480 and its not
working..hence the solenoid chattering

Gunner

== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 12:39 am
From: Ignoramus22978

On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus <grendelair@aim.com> wrote:
> On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>> The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
>> for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
>> transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>>
>> i
>
> Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
> like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?
>
> Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
> started to act up with the brake solenoid?

I bought it at auction.

I have never seen this hoist run.

At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 12:40 am
From: Ignoramus22978

On 2011-11-14, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:52:52 -0600, Ignoramus22978
><ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2011-11-13, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:00:33 -0600, Ignoramus22978
>>><ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have a 3 phase Yale 1/2 ton hoist. It has an electric brake with a
>>>>solenoid, whose job is to pull away the brake lever when 230VAC is
>>>>supplied to it.
>>>>
>>>>The problem is that it does not do it. Instead of steadily pulling
>>>>away, it constantly jerks the lever, but never far enough to the end
>>>>point where it is supposed to be pulled away. So, the brake is not
>>>>disengaged as the hoist operates. I am glad that I noticed that.
>>>>
>>>>I tried pulling on the lever by hand when the solenoid was engaged. I
>>>>noticed that if I help the solenoid and pull away the lever to the
>>>>end, jerking stops completely, but if I slowly let go of the lever and
>>>>it returns to the brake position, jerking resumes.
>>>>
>>>>I am thinking that perhaps this solenoid has two separate coils,
>>>>pulling and holding one, and the holding one is not working or not
>>>>engaging?
>>>>
>>>>Any idea?
>>>>
>>>>thanks
>>>
>>> Check to see if its not wired up for 440/480
>>>
>>> Most of those hoists are dual voltage and while they will run on 220 if
>>> wired for 440..the solenoids most often will not
>>
>>The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
>>for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
>>transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>>
>>i
>
> No..it means you didnt get everything changed over to 240. Check your
> diagrams again. Something is still trying to run at 480 and its not
> working..hence the solenoid chattering

Well, what I know is that I did measure voltage at the solenoid
terminals, and it was 230v.

== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 1:24 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:40:30 -0600, Ignoramus22978
<ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:

>On 2011-11-14, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 20:52:52 -0600, Ignoramus22978
>><ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2011-11-13, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:00:33 -0600, Ignoramus22978
>>>><ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have a 3 phase Yale 1/2 ton hoist. It has an electric brake with a
>>>>>solenoid, whose job is to pull away the brake lever when 230VAC is
>>>>>supplied to it.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem is that it does not do it. Instead of steadily pulling
>>>>>away, it constantly jerks the lever, but never far enough to the end
>>>>>point where it is supposed to be pulled away. So, the brake is not
>>>>>disengaged as the hoist operates. I am glad that I noticed that.
>>>>>
>>>>>I tried pulling on the lever by hand when the solenoid was engaged. I
>>>>>noticed that if I help the solenoid and pull away the lever to the
>>>>>end, jerking stops completely, but if I slowly let go of the lever and
>>>>>it returns to the brake position, jerking resumes.
>>>>>
>>>>>I am thinking that perhaps this solenoid has two separate coils,
>>>>>pulling and holding one, and the holding one is not working or not
>>>>>engaging?
>>>>>
>>>>>Any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>>thanks
>>>>
>>>> Check to see if its not wired up for 440/480
>>>>
>>>> Most of those hoists are dual voltage and while they will run on 220 if
>>>> wired for 440..the solenoids most often will not
>>>
>>>The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
>>>for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
>>>transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>>>
>>>i
>>
>> No..it means you didnt get everything changed over to 240. Check your
>> diagrams again. Something is still trying to run at 480 and its not
>> working..hence the solenoid chattering
>
>Well, what I know is that I did measure voltage at the solenoid
>terminals, and it was 230v.
>
>i

Recheck all your wiring. And then see if the solenoids have any markings
on them that may indicate they were replaced with 480 only ones.

That chattering would indicate they are not getting enough poop to hold.

Got a 480 transformer? Rewire back to 480 and see if it works properly
at that voltage.

If there is 230 on those terminals..it means something is not properly
if the solenoids are the stock ones. So they may not be the stock ones.

Gunner

== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 1:26 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:39:50 -0600, Ignoramus22978
<ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:

>On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus <grendelair@aim.com> wrote:
>> On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>>> The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
>>> for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
>>> transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
>> like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?
>>
>> Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
>> started to act up with the brake solenoid?
>
>I bought it at auction.
>
>I have never seen this hoist run.
>
>At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
>could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).
>
>i
Time to hook it up and set it up as a 480 power supply WITH DIFFERNT
PLUGS than your 240 system. You will run a lot of 480 stuff through
your shop..and you will need a power source to run/demo/test that
stuff.

Gunner

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 7:20 am
From: Tony Miklos

On 11/13/2011 9:51 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
> On 2011-11-13, Tony Miklos<Tony.Miklos@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/13/2011 12:48 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>>> On 2011-11-13, Tony Miklos<Tony.Miklos@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/13/2011 10:21 AM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>>>>> Here's a picture.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://boss-proxy.chudov.com/tmp/tmp-0432.jpg.html
>>>>
>>>> I don't see the wires. How many wires does the solenoid have?
>>>
>>> Two.
>>
>> I've also worked on solenoids like that that have a switch and a
>> resistor for the "hold" circuit. Follow the wires. Same thing, if the
>> resistor or that circuit is open the solenoid will chatter open and closed.
>>
>> This is assuming the solenoid does chatter, as if it's being turned on
>> and off rapidly, like a machine gun.
>
> This is exactly what it does.
>
>> If it's just hanging up part way and buzzing then I'd agree with the
>> people who said to clean it up or replace it.
>
> No, it chatters like a machine gun.
>
> i

Follow the solenoid wires to look for an end of stroke switch. If it
has one it will be actuated and open when the solenoid is pulled in.
Check that circuit for a resistor or something else to lower the
solenoid voltage. The problem is that it gets power on the pull stroke
but no power for the hold position.

== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 7:59 am
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/13/2011 9:21 AM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
> Here's a picture.
>
> http://boss-proxy.chudov.com/tmp/tmp-0432.jpg.html

That amount of surface rust and corrosion INSIDE a cover
indicates it's been wet, or in a wet location.

That's a disc brake and should dis-engage when the hoist
is in operation.

Do you have the wiring diagram for this hoist?

I know that label reads, "Caution dual voltage" as an
indication it "might be wired for a different voltage than
what you're using.

Despite all the random guessing, I'm assuming that is a
very simple straight forward coil that pulls the release
on the disc brake.

If that coil is set up for 480 volts and you're putting 240
across it, it IS going to buzz and chatter. It will do that
without any missing diodes, open coils, hidden switches or
two sets pull & hold windings.

If that coil is set up for "dual voltage" it should have
more that two wires connecting to it. Or there should be a
control transformer somewhere else in the housing to supply
the correct voltage to a single voltage coil. Or a dropping
resistor (not likely) to allow a 240 coil to be used on 480.
And the instructions, as such, should have the connection
for both voltages and everything you have to reconnect listed.

Jeff

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 1:22 pm
From: Gunner Asch

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 09:59:40 -0600, Jeffrey Angus <grendelair@aim.com>
wrote:

>On 11/13/2011 9:21 AM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>> Here's a picture.
>>
>> http://boss-proxy.chudov.com/tmp/tmp-0432.jpg.html
>
>That amount of surface rust and corrosion INSIDE a cover
>indicates it's been wet, or in a wet location.
>
>That's a disc brake and should dis-engage when the hoist
>is in operation.
>
>Do you have the wiring diagram for this hoist?
>
>I know that label reads, "Caution dual voltage" as an
>indication it "might be wired for a different voltage than
>what you're using.
>
>Despite all the random guessing, I'm assuming that is a
>very simple straight forward coil that pulls the release
>on the disc brake.
>
>If that coil is set up for 480 volts and you're putting 240
>across it, it IS going to buzz and chatter. It will do that
>without any missing diodes, open coils, hidden switches or
>two sets pull & hold windings.
>
>If that coil is set up for "dual voltage" it should have
>more that two wires connecting to it. Or there should be a
>control transformer somewhere else in the housing to supply
>the correct voltage to a single voltage coil. Or a dropping
>resistor (not likely) to allow a 240 coil to be used on 480.
>And the instructions, as such, should have the connection
>for both voltages and everything you have to reconnect listed.
>
>Jeff

The several I own (CMS) have internal transformers that allow voltage
changes. to the workings.

Though he does say that he has 240 on the coils..which is troublesome

Gunner

== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 5:30 pm
From: Jamie

Ignoramus22978 wrote:

> On 2011-11-13, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 08:00:33 -0600, Ignoramus22978
>><ignoramus22978@NOSPAM.22978.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a 3 phase Yale 1/2 ton hoist. It has an electric brake with a
>>>solenoid, whose job is to pull away the brake lever when 230VAC is
>>>supplied to it.
>>>
>>>The problem is that it does not do it. Instead of steadily pulling
>>>away, it constantly jerks the lever, but never far enough to the end
>>>point where it is supposed to be pulled away. So, the brake is not
>>>disengaged as the hoist operates. I am glad that I noticed that.
>>>
>>>I tried pulling on the lever by hand when the solenoid was engaged. I
>>>noticed that if I help the solenoid and pull away the lever to the
>>>end, jerking stops completely, but if I slowly let go of the lever and
>>>it returns to the brake position, jerking resumes.
>>>
>>>I am thinking that perhaps this solenoid has two separate coils,
>>>pulling and holding one, and the holding one is not working or not
>>>engaging?
>>>
>>>Any idea?
>>>
>>>thanks
>>
>>Check to see if its not wired up for 440/480
>>
>>Most of those hoists are dual voltage and while they will run on 220 if
>>wired for 440..the solenoids most often will not
>
>
> The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
> for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
> transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>
>
If that being the case, I then would assume that maybe the solenoid was
getting its voltage from one of the star windings on the motor?

A connection from wire 4 to wire 5 should provide ~ 230V Ac when the
motor is wired for 480 which is a standard way of doing it, how ever, I
wonder if you considered this when you did your change over?

Of course, I don't know anything about anything so don't listen to me.

Jamie

== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 5:35 pm
From: Jamie

Ignoramus22978 wrote:

> On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus <grendelair@aim.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>>
>>>The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
>>>for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
>>>transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>>>
>>>i
>>
>>Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
>>like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?
>>
>>Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
>>started to act up with the brake solenoid?
>
>
> I bought it at auction.
>
> I have never seen this hoist run.
>
> At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
> could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).
>
> i
Ok, so what is the original coil voltage suppose to be? 230 or 480?

You do know that many of those types of devices that allow you to
rewire uses the same coil for both voltages? Normally the coil is
spec'd out for 230V AC.. which will work in either case, it's just
where you connect the wires to.

Jamie

== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 7:55 pm
From: "hrhofmann@att.net"

On Nov 14, 7:35 pm, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1l...@charter.net> wrote:
> Ignoramus22978 wrote:
> > On 2011-11-14, Jeffrey Angus <grendel...@aim.com> wrote:
>
> >>On 11/13/2011 8:52 PM, Ignoramus22978 wrote:
>
> >>>The hoist can be entirely rewired for 240/480. It actually WAS wired
> >>>for 480 and I had to rewire. So, you are saying that to complete this
> >>>transition to 240, I would have to replace the solenoid?
>
> >>>i
>
> >>Ok, let's back up a bit. WHEN was the last time the hoist worked
> >>like it should? When it was installed and operating on 480 v?
>
> >>Or was it working at some point when re-wired for 240 v and THEN
> >>started to act up with the brake solenoid?
>
> > I bought it at auction.
>
> > I have never seen this hoist run.
>
> > At my place, I have 240v 3ph only. (well, I have a transformer that I
> > could wire to get 460v, but it is sitting in the corner right now).
>
> > i
>
> Ok, so what is the original coil voltage suppose to be? 230 or 480?
>
> You do know that many of those types of devices that allow you to
> rewire uses the same coil for both voltages? Normally the coil is
> spec'd out for 230V AC.. which will work in either case, it's just
> where you connect the wires to.
>
> Jamie- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Has the OP ever said if there are two or three or how many wires going
to the solenoid????

==============================================================================
TOPIC: practical lubricity
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5cc5af4e785fa664?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 12:56 am
From: "N_Cook"

William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j9orah$i20$1@dont-email.me...
> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint.
It
> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply
too
> much friction, both static and moving.
>
> I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought
of
> lithium grease, but... Nah.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> "We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
> questions." -- Edwin Land
>
>

I would try locksmith's dry lubricant - ground graphite or talcum powder ,
at least no solvents going to attack the plastic

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 9:23 am
From: Phil Hobbs

On 11/14/2011 03:56 AM, N_Cook wrote:
> William Sommerwerck<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:j9orah$i20$1@dont-email.me...
>> The car holder for my GPS navigation system uses a ball-and-socket joint.
> It
>> holds the unit without any slipping -- but no matter how much I fuss with
>> it, I can never get it into exactly the position I want. There's simply
> too
>> much friction, both static and moving.
>>
>> I've tried silicone spray lube, but it doesn't do much good. I've thought
> of
>> lithium grease, but... Nah.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> --
>> "We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
>> questions." -- Edwin Land
>>
>>
>
>
> I would try locksmith's dry lubricant - ground graphite or talcum powder ,
> at least no solvents going to attack the plastic
>
>

The old slide rule trick is to loosen with graphite and tighten with
chalk dust.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 1:45 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> The old slide rule trick is to loosen with graphite
> and tighten with chalk dust.

I used to carry a mini tube of Vaseline to lube my slide rule.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tektronix 2215A worth repair?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fc4cb167c05d84fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 4:46 am
From: Archon

On 11/13/2011 8:13 PM, Geoff wrote:

>
> Links below for pics taken with webcam. Mesh is visible.
> I have played around with a magnet, can get trace to wobble
> around as expected but it comes back to the same position once
> magnet removed. This is true for the unshielded part behind
> screen and the conical tube shield. I will try a degausser
> once I find or make one
>
> http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/triode101/focus_limit
> _ccw1.jpg
>
> http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/triode101/focus_limit
> _cw1.jpg
>
> http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/triode101/focus_limit
> _ccw2.jpg
>
> http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/triode101/2215a.jpg
>
> http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/triode101/2215b.jpg

If the distortion stays constant with the traces as they move up the
screen its not the CRT

If the distortion is fixed in that area of the CRT then the CRT is
internally damaged.

Magnets and deguassers will not cure this.

IMO its a broken CRT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Standby voltage
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e4b30dad17892bfe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 7:10 am
From: "Vince Schmitt"

Hi!
I need to know if there is supposed to be 5 Volts on the control board on
Visio TV MDL VW37LHDTV20A
Thank you for any info I can get.
Vince

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 2:23 pm
From: mike

Vince Schmitt wrote:
> Hi!
> I need to know if there is supposed to be 5 Volts on the control board
> on Visio TV MDL VW37LHDTV20A
> Thank you for any info I can get.
> Vince
Can't tell you anything about that model,
but
any device capable of doing anything while in standby, like turn it on with
a remote, must have power somewhere...control board is a likely place.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 10:55 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:23:45 -0800, mike <spamme9@gmail.com> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

>Vince Schmitt wrote:
>> Hi!
>> I need to know if there is supposed to be 5 Volts on the control board
>> on Visio TV MDL VW37LHDTV20A
>> Thank you for any info I can get.
>> Vince

>Can't tell you anything about that model, but
>any device capable of doing anything while in standby, like turn it on with
>a remote, must have power somewhere...control board is a likely place.

Good point. I'd look for the remote sensor, usually a 3-pin device.
Standard pinout would be Gnd, Vcc, Output, not necessarily in that
order.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 8:49 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

Site I came across today, whilst searching for a Rotel schematic.

http://audio-circuit.dk/Schematics.htm

Hadn't seen it before. Seems to have quite a lot of useful stuff on it.

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PS3: red LED flashes
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/016f259658d5333e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 9:10 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Ray Carlsen" <rcarlsen@tds.net> wrote in message
news:V9%vq.54$ZX.44@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
>> Google PS3 BGA reball
>
> Thanks, Adrian. The first thought that came to mind when I saw the
> reball video is that I've lived too long. ;-) I might try the "flux and
> reheat" process. My eyes are just not up to any more than that.
>
> Ray

I tried these kitchen table 'reflow' processes for a while (although
actually on my professional workbench and using sophisticated hot air rework
equipment !) and I can pretty much say that I had total success with every
one - for about a week ...

Then they come bouncing back. It's known as "YLOD" or yellow light of death.
It is caused by the solder balls under the two BGA ICs giving way due to
thermal cycling, and in no small part I feel, as a result of the fact that
lead free solder is used, which lacks the ductility of the old leaded
solder.

Out of all the ones I did, I think I only had one that survived, and that
was my son's one too. I tried just about every temperature and duration
combination, as well as various different techniques for applying the heat,
including pre-heating the board, and using liquid flux. I tried all sorts of
thermal paste when re-attaching the heatsinks, including large thick dollops
of standard white paste, as Sony themselves seem to favour in the original
construction, thin scrapings of the same stuff, and thin scrapings of artic
silver, as most people on here will swear is the right way to go. In every
case, when reassembled, the unit would come straight back on, and work a
treat. You could play DVDs in it, or use it as a permanently powered media
server for weeks on end, and it would keep going. But send it back to a
serious gamer to actually play games on, and it would be back inside a few
days.

I think that these games are so processor and graphics-engine intensive,
that the amount of heat generated is just too much for any tenuous 'fix'
obtained by the kitchen table methods which are, make no mistake, definitely
*not* actually re-melting solder balls under those ICs.

Just as a matter of interest, the game "Call of Duty" seems to be the big
one for re-killing them.

By all means give it a go, and if you follow the instructions of any of the
people on the net who are publishing these fixes, you probably will get at
result, initially. But don't get too excited, as there will be a good chance
that you will see it come back to haunt you ...

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mixing 4 audio channels to 3?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a9c921002b2ed750?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 6:53 pm
From: The Ghost In The Machine

On Nov 12, 11:09 pm, DaveC <inva...@invalid.net> wrote:
> > With R12 cranked down to minimum R the output of U3 goes down to about
> > 600µVPP out with 2VPP out of the sound card(s), and up to about 6VPP
> > with R12 at 10k so, if you use a 10k pot for R12, there's your center
> > channel volume control.
> > ---
> > JF
>
> Yeah, R12 needs to be a pot. That does it.
>
> Thanks!

OH BROTHER :/ LETS HOPE SO.
BOOWAHAHAHAHAHA !
GOOD LUCK WIT DAT.

PATECUM
TGITM

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 14 2011 10:56 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 02:02:43 GMT, Ray Carlsen <rcarlsen@tds.net> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Thanks for sharing.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

==============================================================================

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