sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ecfbd039de0f473a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 21 2011 11:05 pm
From: jialiu

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Porcelain thermally conductive insulators ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b69decd6bfa03d8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 12:12 am
From: "N_Cook"

Baron <baron@linuxmaniac.net> wrote in message
news:ioq3l9$goa$1@dont-email.me...
> N_Cook Inscribed thus:
>
> > Baron <baron@linuxmaniac.net> wrote in message
> > news:ioni74$fk3$1@dont-email.me...
> >> N_Cook Inscribed thus:
> >>
> >> > I had to get inside that amp again, yet another PbF problem from
> >> > next to zero insertion force speaker connector at the PA 4 removal
> >> > & inserts by me was enough , only 6 months old.
> >> > The slabs pass red laser pointer light, but then on checking but so
> >> > does the ceramic of high temp "choc block".
> >> > These slabs are more trnasmissive and scatter the light throughout
> >> > the slab not just the entry and exit area of the chock block.
> >>
> >> Mmm ! Interesting. I have a small quantity of boxed TO3 BeO
> >> insulators. I'll have to get one out and see.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards:
> >> Baron.
> >
> >
> > It maybe a function of thickness, these being 1.8mm thick slabs rather
> > than wafers
>
> I cracked open a box of TO3 BeO insulators this afternoon...
> I was very surprised ! I tried shining a red laser pointer through one.
> Its weird but they do seem to glow but no direct light through it.
>
> Putting one against a small hole in a cardboard box and viewing the sun
> shows nothing, no light, nothing. Most odd !
>
> --
> Best Regards:
> Baron.

Thast was the same here complete scarttering with no obvious bright spot
directly opposite the entry point. Chock block ceramic was just the
adjascent bright spot , much attenuated in comparison to the porcelain or
vitrified BeO slab

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lead free solder
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7ff46ef49e9b7de3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 12:17 am
From: "N_Cook"

Charles <charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ioq69t$9qt$1@dont-email.me...
> Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
> equipment?
>

This week a 6 month old amp with 2 separate PbF faults found. Plus loads of
other problems. Test with dummy load , then speaker. Place back in the cab
and supposed final test - another damn intermittant fault. Maybe just
induced by my localised handling on the power amp is enough to have
disturbed another only just holding lead-free solder joint. Luckily the
owner has another amp he cab use and this one can sit until next week when I
may be in a calmer frame of mind .

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 4:39 am
From: who where

On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:07:11 -0400, "Charles"
<charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote:

>Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
>equipment?

Of course. The increased number of failures due solely to solder
joints has kept many a service department busy. Reworking with
"decent" solder is the simplest treatment.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 7:06 am
From: "N_Cook"

who where <noone@home.net> wrote in message
news:13q2r6p75t4v63rmep7iig2qqq5gu7avbu@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:07:11 -0400, "Charles"
> <charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
> >equipment?
>
> Of course. The increased number of failures due solely to solder
> joints has kept many a service department busy. Reworking with
> "decent" solder is the simplest treatment.

I've still not found out what they do in the automotive industry, re
electronic engine management etc. All components will have that "lovely"
mirror finish of tin tinning on all leads plus lead free solder? AKAIK they
do not have a derogation to use proper solder. Cars are parked often in sub
zero temperatures to start tin-pest and then extreme heat cycling and
vibration is use, next to an engine ,is guaranteed to crack PbF. Toyotas
,with a mind of their own , comes to mind.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 7:35 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Charles" <charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ioq69t$9qt$1@dont-email.me...
> Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
> equipment?

Presumably, you're not a frequent visitor to this group then ? It has had
probably the biggest negative reliability impact on electronic equipment,
since printed circuit construction was first introduced to the commercial
market 40 odd years ago, and was at that time itself an unreliable
technology. By 15 years ago, this type of construction and manufacturing was
a fully mature and stable technology, with a very high degree of intrinsic
reliability. Until poxy lead-free solder was forced on everyone by idiots
who didn't understand the implications. PCB construction is now probably
about as unreliable as back in the early days of the technology. Avionics,
military and life support equipment manufacturers won't use the stuff, and
have successfully negotiated exemptions from the mandate, for their classes
of equipment. That should probably tell you all that you need to know ...

Arfa

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 8:38 am
From: WangoTango

In article <ior37e$hno$1@dont-email.me>, spamme9@gmail.com says...
> Phil Allison wrote:
> > "Charles"
> >> Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
> >> equipment?
> >
> > ** The amount of work has increased.
> >
> > Pb free solder is often brittle and cracks easily under thermal cycling,
> > stress or vibrations.
> >
> > Standard procedure round here is to remove it with wick and use some real
> > 60/40 Savbit solder to make the repair.
> >
> >
> >
> > .... Phil
> >
> >
> Arent't there some legal issues with that?
>
Depends on where you are and if the device is yours or not.
Here in the US we can use real solder that really works, so no issue.
If you live where lead free is a commercial reality, who is going to
know if you use good old 60/40 (63/37) to fix your own stuff?
I've reworked many lead free boards with lead solder, and we use 100's
of thousands of ROHS parts with good old 63/37.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 8:45 am
From: boardjunkie1

On Apr 21, 10:07 pm, "Charles" <charlesschu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
> equipment?

Oh GAWD yes. Its total garbage...

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 10:14 am
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:26:57 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

> "mike"
> Phil Allison wrote:
>>> "Charles"
>>>> Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices
>>>> and equipment?
>>>
>>> ** The amount of work has increased.
>>>
>>> Pb free solder is often brittle and cracks easily under thermal
>>> cycling, stress or vibrations.
>>>
>>> Standard procedure round here is to remove it with wick and use some
>>> real 60/40 Savbit solder to make the repair.
>>>
>>>
>> Arent't there some legal issues with that?
>
>
> **You tell us - fuckhead
>
> But round here = Australia where the RoHS directive is not law.
>
> Nor is it law in Japan, North America and most places.
>
> And would not give a shit if it was.
>
>
> .... Phil

Finally a fairly civil post that I can agree with from you.
I know it's just bait and tomorrow there will be a subject
Meat Plow is a MORONIC FUCKHEAD but we're very used to it.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 11:36 am
From: Mike Tomlinson

In article <ioq69t$9qt$1@dont-email.me>, Charles
<charlesschuler@comcast.net> writes

>Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
>equipment?

This is a troll, isn't it?

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 1:52 pm
From: mike

Phil Allison wrote:
> "mike"
> Phil Allison wrote:
>>> "Charles"
>>>> Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
>>>> equipment?
>>> ** The amount of work has increased.
>>>
>>> Pb free solder is often brittle and cracks easily under thermal cycling,
>>> stress or vibrations.
>>>
>>> Standard procedure round here is to remove it with wick and use some real
>>> 60/40 Savbit solder to make the repair.
>>>
>> Arent't there some legal issues with that?
>
>
> **You tell us - fuckhead
>
> But round here = Australia where the RoHS directive is not law.
>
> Nor is it law in Japan, North America and most places.
>
> And would not give a shit if it was.
>
>
> .... Phil
>
>

Well....
I found this:
Begin quote
. I don't know whereabouts in the world you
are, but across Europe, strictly speaking, it is actually illegal to use
leaded solder, or non RoHS components, to repair anything manufactured in
lead-free after implementation of the RoHS directive, which was June 2006 (I
think) in the UK.
end quote.

so I asked...rather politely...I think...

I give the above quote more credence as it is not riddled with name calling
and four-letter terms of endearment. Also, the tone is quite civil.

Hmmmm...civil...I should find a word with which you'd likely be
familiar? It's about being nice to people.

Note that I didn't ask if YOU cared. I asked if there were issues.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 2:20 pm
From: "Charles"

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message news:5qQdejBbqcsNFwri@jasper.org.uk...

In article <ioq69t$9qt$1@dont-email.me>, Charles
<charlesschuler@comcast.net> writes

>Has this had any impact on repair and rework of electronic devices and
>equipment?

This is a troll, isn't it?

No, just trying to learn. Why would you think that, BTW?
As to the other denizen with an itchy flame-thrower finger, of course I
Googled before posting here.
Newsgroups are getting awfully twitchy these days.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nextsapiens: Summer Industrial Training 2011
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f1da11b9f1db98e1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 12:38 am
From: Next Sapiens

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2. Wireless communication between 2 microcontrollers
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4. Remote sensing by installing sensor at remote location and
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5. Designing of wireless sensor network using 2 or more sensors
connected wirelessly to base station
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: register free join now all companies friends
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/794d063ed3669164?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 5:02 am
From: priya nka

http://123maza.com/65/boat345/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Uniselector mini project.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b7082851ed958781?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 7:01 am
From: KR

On Apr 21, 10:15 am, josephkk <joseph_barr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 22:50:29 +0100, T i m <n...@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Hi all,
>
> >I would like to use a uniselector (got) to step to its next position
> >upon connection to a mains supply (through 'X' circuitry). This will
> >probably be at one_per_day time intervals.
>
> >Ideally said circuitry would consume as little energy itself as
> >possible.
>
> >What I'm actually trying to do is 'cycle' an intelligent low current
> >(.5A) but quite expensive charger to a range of smallish 12V lead acid
> >batteries. Once each battery is actually charged (probably elsewhere)
> >it will be kept topped up by said project applying said charger once
> >every Y days (where Y could be 25 as I think it's a 25 way selector).
>
> >I could use (make) a 240 ac to 50V DC PSU (assuming the uniselector
> >was designed to run at that) and then create a suitably long one shot
> >pulse on power-up (charge cap?). I could probably even just use one
> >mains digital time switch, energising the uniselector 'step' cct for
> >one minute, again via a suitable charge cap (so the coil isn't left
> >energised for longer than needed)?
>
> >Ideally though both the charger and the stepper sides would be power
> >cycled at the same time (to ensure the charger was reset). Or the
> >charger de-powered when the selector is pulsed (so the selector isn't
> >actually switching the charge current).
>
> >Ideas welcome please. ;-)
>
> >Cheers, T i m
>
> Sounds like a great application for a stepping relay. Typical specs: 10,
> 20, 25, 40, 50, and up to 100 steps; 2 to 10 poles; 250 V, 2 A.
>
> Next; trying to find one.
>
> New ones can be had, but are spendy:http://www.surplussales.com/switches/SWLedex-1.html

Not really cheap either.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Ex-RAF-Stores-GEC-Uniselector-NOS-Boxed-/140532799286?pt=UK_Collectables_RadioTelevision_Telephony_SM&hash=item20b8685736

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Annoying Clock on Microwave
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/408849711f765a28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 10:35 am
From: jeff_wisnia

From my "I can't believe they'd make it this way" list.

Last year I purchased a new Westinghouse Model WST-3501 microwave oven
for our office lunchroom.

It heats and cooks things fine, but has one lousy feature which I can't
avoid noticing and which irks me very time I see it.

The TOD, which is displayed whenever the unit is on standby, loses about
two minutes a day, and has to be reset every few days to keep from
falling ridiculously behind.

I'm shocked, shocked, that the clock isn't synced to the 120 volt 60 Hz
power the unit runs on, like every other line powered appliance with a
digital TOD display I own.

The only reason I can guess for the poor timekeeping is that the
circuitry/board running the clock is used on their 220 volt 50 Hz
versions without modification, so the makers decided not to use line
sync for the clock, and probably didn't want to spring for a crystal
oscillator either, so used an RC one instead.

I tried emailing Westinghouse about this and they fobbed me off to a
subsidiary who couldn't even bother to respond to an email.

Thanks for reading. Anyone got any other ideas about why the stupid
clock in this microwave loses time?

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 11:19 am
From: whit3rd

On Friday, April 22, 2011 10:35:47 AM UTC-7, jeff_wisnia wrote:
> From my "I can't believe they'd make it this way" list.
>
> Last year I purchased a new Westinghouse Model WST-3501 microwave oven
> for our office lunchroom.

> The TOD, which is displayed whenever the unit is on standby, loses about
> two minutes a day, and has to be reset every few days

Check your outlet! It sounds like some considerable voltage drop
occurs in the wiring and the clock stops during operation.
I've seen a microwave gain seconds when in use, too (the
TTL chips in the clock circuitry had no bypass capacitors).

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 12:36 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> The only reason I can guess for the poor timekeeping is that the
> circuitry/board running the clock is used on their 220 volt 50 Hz
> versions without modification, so the makers decided not to use
> line sync for the clock, and probably didn't want to spring for
> a crystal oscillator either, so used an RC one instead.

A chip would likely be designed to work at either frequency, with a jumper
making the selection.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 2:01 pm
From: jeff_wisnia

whit3rd wrote:
> On Friday, April 22, 2011 10:35:47 AM UTC-7, jeff_wisnia wrote:
>
>>From my "I can't believe they'd make it this way" list.
>>
>>Last year I purchased a new Westinghouse Model WST-3501 microwave oven
>>for our office lunchroom.
>
>
>>The TOD, which is displayed whenever the unit is on standby, loses about
>>two minutes a day, and has to be reset every few days
>
>
> Check your outlet! It sounds like some considerable voltage drop
> occurs in the wiring and the clock stops during operation.
> I've seen a microwave gain seconds when in use, too (the
> TTL chips in the clock circuitry had no bypass capacitors).

I doubt if it's voltage drop because the clock loses about 6 minutes
over a three day (holiday) weekend when no one is there using the microwave.

Also, FWIW, a complete power drop out and recovery causes the clock to
start at 12:00.

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 4:20 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Apr 22, 10:35 am, jeff_wisnia <jwisniaDumpThisP...@conversent.net>
wrote:
> From my "I can't believe they'd make it this way" list.
>
> Last year I purchased a new Westinghouse Model WST-3501 microwave oven
> for our office lunchroom.
>
> It heats and cooks things fine, but has one lousy feature which I can't
> avoid noticing and which irks me very time I see it.
>
> The TOD, which is displayed whenever the unit is on standby, loses about
> two minutes a day, and has to be reset every few days to keep from
> falling ridiculously behind.
>
> I'm shocked, shocked, that the clock isn't synced to the 120 volt 60 Hz
> power the unit runs on, like every other line powered appliance with a
> digital TOD display I own.
>
> The only reason I can guess for the poor timekeeping is that the
> circuitry/board running the clock is used on their 220 volt 50 Hz
> versions without modification, so the makers decided not to use line
> sync for the clock, and probably didn't want to spring for a crystal
> oscillator either, so used an RC one instead.
>
> I tried emailing Westinghouse about this and they fobbed me off to a
> subsidiary who couldn't even bother to respond to an email.
>
> Thanks for reading. Anyone got any other ideas about why the stupid
> clock in this microwave loses time?
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Jeffry Wisnia
> (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
> The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

Yes but some years back our group designed a micro controller project
that used AC line zero cross for phase triggering. Making that
controller into a clock and using 50 or 60 Hz as timing reference
would be as easy for them as it was for us. So THAT isn't a valid
excuse.

G²

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SANYO DC-F165U mini system - low volume - schematic?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/35e95f296873f672?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 10:53 am
From: b

I'm currently working on this sanyo DC-F165U stereo. The problem is
permanent low volume. It's less than half what it ought to be, even
set at full, both channels.
A schematic would help me speed up the fault finding process if some
kind soul has a copy...
TIA
regards,
B.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Really "need to" replace older CATV cables? Would my cable provider
really filter my line against my will?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/31e43b6766887486?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 1:09 pm
From: Jreality

I live in a townhouse. When I first moved in here 6.5 years ago I had
cable internet, but I got a much better deal on DSL so I dropped it
after a month or two even though Cable was faster. A couple of
weeks ago decided I'd try cable internet again. While waiting for a
new modem, they were able to get me online with an old 3Com "Shark
Fine" modem for a few days without problems before a new Motorola
Surfboard was sent to me. When using the old 3Com, the service was
good (no outages), but the top download speed was around 4.7mbs.

When I installed the new Surboard, the top speed was faster. However,
after the first day I discovered that there was an intermittent
problem of the modem losing the signal. What I'm finding funny, is
that when the Surfboard would lose the signal and go offline, the
3Com, if connected, would be able to get online according to the cable
company. I even tried connecting both the Surfboard and the 3Com to
a the same two-way splitter and only the 3Com would get a signal
during the outages. That led me to believe the problem was the
Surfboard. They set up an appointment to have a technician arrive. I
continued to use the Surfboard for a few days with at least 2
intermittent outages per day.

When the tech arrived, he measured the line signal and did a few
things to improve it, such as replacing an unnecessary 3-way splitter
with a two way, and replace a few bad connectors in the system, adding
a filter on one of the lines going into the bedroom which he said was
failing for noise that was likely coming from the TV, and adding a
filter to the little TV in the office which he said was generating
noise. He claimed his machine was still picking up "ingress" (noise)
from the two older approximately 23-year old original cables from when
the townhouse was originally built. While I agree that these two
cables are older and thinner than what is currently used, and
"ideally" would be good to replace, and they may be picking up some
noise if his machine is really telling the truth and calibrated
correctly, etc, but I wouldn't want to replace them unless as a last
resort, because they are snaked through walls. One of them goes from
basement-level to attic above 2nd story and the other from basement-
level in front of house to 1st story at rear of house. I'm not
allowed to have the cable company run wires outside the townhouse and
the cable company won't snake new wires for me internally, so I would
need to hire an electrician to do the work unless I wanted an ugly/
visible wiring job. I fear it would be expensive to have an
electrician install new CATV wires. How much would it generally be
expected to cost to replace these 2 main cables in my townhouse and is
there any risk of damaging anything from having the work done? (NOTE:
In addition, 2 cables going from the attic to 2nd story would likely
need replacement as well) Any idea would the total job should cost?

Anyway, I think the technician did improve the signal to the Surboard
even though he claims I should still replace the 2 older main cables.
There is still no explanation as to why the 3Com didn't have the
problem. Currently the Surfboard says the Downstream Power Level is 5
dBmV when previously it was zero. Currently the S/N ratio is 36 to
37 db, but I believe it said the same thing previously. No outage has
occurred since the technician left yesterday so I'm keeping my fingers
crossed. If I do still get these outages, then my plan is to move the
modem downstairs to an outlet in the kitchen which the technician said
is a good/newer line. If that doesn't make the outages go away, then
I would temporarily disconnect the 2 older lines from the system
altogether by removing them from the splitter in the garage. I would
temporarily lose the ability to watch some of the TVs in the house.
If I still get intermittant outages then I would know that the it is
utter BS that the older lines were the cause the outages. (I'll
reiterate that the 3com modem did not get any outages.) Only if
disconnecting the older 2 lines from the system is the only solution
to problem would I get involved with replacing them.

My opinion, until proven otherwise, is they just want to use the
"older cables" as an excuse to not look further into a problem.
(I'll reiterate that the 3Com wasn't getting any outages, and TV
signal looked fine during the outages) What I find disturbing is that
I was also told by the cable company technician that periodically they
go around and check noise levels at the pole or, or in my case green
boxes on the ground outside the buildings in my development.
Supposedly if they detect that the cable connected to my townhouse is
introducting too much noise into their system, they could just throw
on a filter at the box without even telling me and then I would
instantly lose internet as well as some functionalty to my TV
converter box. I would then have to schedule a tech call and if the
tech finds the filter, I would then be forced to replace or remove the
older lines from the system before they would unfilter my line
again. Is this a bunch of BS or would they really do that? It seems
to me the noise levels would have to be severe for them to do that,
right? Is he BSing me?

If it is true that the older cables are picking up some noise, then
where is the noise coming from? How long do indore CATV cables
last? Do they just wear out from sitting there in the house for a
certain time period? At one point, he connected his noise-measuring
device to one of the main lines from the end in the attic and said it
passed. When he connected the machine to the opposite end in the
garage he claimed it failed for ingress which is strange and makes me
wonder if the cable is really problematic.

Anyway, so far no outages since the tech was here. I'm hoping that he
improved the signal enough to solve the outage problem. I'm getting
up to around 7.5 mbs with this modem, which isn't ideal, but it is
more than double DSL speed so it's fine with me. If I still get
outages then I will take the steps mentioned previously before getting
involved with replacing the older cables. I'm just wondering if it is
BS that they would filter my cable line against my will just for
having older cables that happen to pick up some noise. What I find
hillarious is that DSL is able to work with thin telephone wiring that
I believe has no noise shielding in and of itself, and is the same age
as the older CATV cables, but the cable company is telling me that I
should replace the older CATV cables to ensure a reliable cable
internet service, and so that I don't eventually get a filter slapped
onto my cable line at the exterior box. Something seems fishy to me
about what I am being told! Yes two of the cable lines in my house or
older and less than ideal, but I'm not sure I'm buying that they
really NEED to be replaced. What would it cost to replace them?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Electric mower battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a079faa9f877be2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 2:27 pm
From: mike

Guv Bob wrote:
> Many thanks fellers for the lessons on batteries! I am now 3-5 times smarter than I wuz (about batteries)! Which ain't saying that much according to the lovely wife. LOL!!! Really appreciate pointing me to the less expensive sources and alternatives too.
>
> Bob
>
>
> "Guv Bob" <guvbob2003@YAHOOOOOOOOEY.com> wrote in message news:Da2dnVQ04MtyNTXQnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> Got a dumb question.... I have an electric mower that uses two 12V lead acid batteries wired in series to give 24V. The batteries are marked 18Ah. Cost is around $100 for one 12v, or $140 for 2 in series, including shipping.
>
> For the same money or less, I can get two std 12v car batteries and end up with more amp hours to boot, which would be good for a mower. Heavier to push around, but that's not a problem.
>
> I don't know nuthin about how amp-hours work - reckon this would be a good idea? Anyone had experience with this kind of thing before?
>
> Bob
>
It's more complicated than that.
Let's do some math...
There's lots of marketing hype and specsmanship involved. Let's ignore
all that for now
and just look at round numbers.

If your typical gas lawnmower is 3Horsepower, it takes 2250 watts/24 =
94 AMPS to equal it in an electric mower...again, ignoring possibly
significant
losses that make the numbers much worse.

Mowing short grass probably requires much less than the 3HP number,
so measuring under load would be good.

You can probably buy a cheap 18AH battery that can put out 0.9Amps for
20 hours...for a few cycles anyway.
Even the BEST battery can't put out 18A for an hour. Google will give you
lots of info on that relationship.
The cheap battery really shows its cheapness
at high current loads.

And, as mentioned, don't consider anything BUT a deep discharge design.
It's quite possible to build a proper lead-acid battery charger. But that
doesn't mean that the one that came with the mower is a proper design.
An excellent battery with poor maintenance and poor charge control
won't have a long life.

So, if you have a small yard and you mow short grass and you charge it
after every mow, and before, if it's been a while, and periodically
over the winter and you don't "I hear it slowing down, but I just have
100 more feet to go", run it into deep discharge, it might be worth the
cost of batteries.

And don't forget they're running the crap out of that small motor.
My electric edger gets so hot that it melts the plastic brush holders.
I fixed it three times before it had to be discarded.

For most of us, a used gas mower would be a better use of the funds.
That assertion is supported by the high percentage of electric mowers
found at garage sales.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 42" Panasonic plasma TV model: TH-42PX60U dead
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c8e947a6771af994?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 2:47 pm
From: Sidney

42" Panasonic plasma TV model: TH-42PX60U, year: Nov 2006, no power,
no blinking or standby LED lights. The TV was on while this happened.
Upon troubleshooting I discovered F401=8 amp ceramic time lag fuse to
be open. From extensive googling after no obvious shorts in power
supply using Fluke DMM model 29 series II. I found the following
common repair tips:

Q406=N-ch MOSFET # RJK5020=Panasonic # B1DEKQ000003=shorted
R410=10 ohm, 5w ceramic thermal cut off=Panasonic # D1F5100E0003=open
F401 & F402=8 amp ceramic time lag fuse= Panasonic # K5D802BNA005= one
or the other open

well on this TV none of the above parts are defective except F401.
According to a Panasonic service bulletin for a similar model:

http://www.tvrepairtips.org/files/tip/286/tt-08-27.pdf

they say to add a C426=ECQB1H103JZ but on that bulletin it's if Q406
is shorted but not on mine and the board on the service bulletin is
somewhat different than mine. I haven't yet replaced F401 or placed a
100 watt light bulb in place. But would like some tips before I
proceed. Thanks.

Sidney® ™
Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Canada

http://web.archive.org/web/20040312120415/www.herald.ns.ca/cgi-bin/home/displayphoto?2002/12/22+126.raw+1019+Business+

http://web.archive.org/web/20040229023255/http://www.herald.ns.ca/cgi-bin/home/displaystory?2002/12/22+126.raw+Business

http://groups.google.com/group/hfx.forsale/browse_thread/thread/43940ce83231ab85/4e4c696fbf04837f?q=sidney+tv+repair&rnum=1#4e4c696fbf04837f

http://www.nesda-ohio.com/iwaynet/pubhtml/May02/May18.html
http://www.nesda-ohio.com/iwaynet/pubhtml/SonyAudMod.html
http://www.nesda-ohio.com/iwaynet/pubhtml/Oct02/Oct028.html
http://www.nesda-ohio.com/iwaynet/pubhtml/Oct02/Oct029.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Toshiba Satellite Pro M15-S405 PCB flux rot
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5f474e30d60254b9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 22 2011 4:46 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

Here's one I haven't seen before:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/toshiba-rot-02.jpg>
It's the motherboard from a Toshiba Satellite Pro M15-S405 laptop. The
brown crud is probably flux left over from the soldering operation or
something corrosive, that was trapped between the PCB and a thin
plastic "protective" covering under the DVD drive. The board acts
totally dead. No power, no charge lite, no sounds, no nothing. At
first, I thought that someone had spilled some liquid into the laptop.
Nope, because all the corrosion is BETWEEN the PCB and the plastic,
with nothing on top of the plastic. The plastic covering was totally
clean. There's no corrosion in the area that's NOT under the
"protective" covering, so it seems whatever did the damage, was
volatile.

The customer has 3 other identical laptops. I just inspected them
(through the DVD slot), and found no corrosion.

I'm not sure I'll be able to fix this one as the rotted traces in this
area are very tiny. It's probably not worth the effort for a 9 year
old laptop.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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