Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 5 updates in 3 topics

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Dec 31 07:54AM -0800

> Canadian numbers as I had a direct hand in the construction of three Utility-Scale
> plants in Canada. And where I learned all about the ripping off of the taxpayers and
> the politics involved. I left that company in short order upon gaining that knowledge.
 
You initial claim is that solar is a fraud. Yet, you yourself have already claimed that a solar investment is returned in 9.8 years, meanwhile an expert site says that its only 8 years:
===============================
 
"If your cost of installing solar is $20,000 and your system is going to save you $2,500 a year on foregone energy bills, your solar panel payback or "break-even point" will be 8 years ($20,000/$2,500 = 8).
 
Energy Sage - May 26, 2019
-- https://news.energysage.com/understanding-your-solar-panel-payback-period/
bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Dec 31 07:56AM -0800

Thus your property is appreciating in value, afterwards.
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Dec 31 05:06AM -0800

On Monday, December 30, 2019 at 6:06:20 PM UTC-5, Trevor Wilson wrote:
 
> --
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
 
 
Wow, never saw a 6CA7 metal tube. Learn something new every day. I also have a sleeve of NOS 8417s that I used in a Fisher for a customer many years ago.
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Dec 31 05:45AM -0800

On Tuesday, December 31, 2019 at 8:06:59 AM UTC-5, John-Del wrote:
 
> Wow, never saw a 6CA7 metal tube. Learn something new every day. I also have a sleeve of NOS 8417s that I used in a Fisher for a customer many years ago.
 
Metal tubes were common in military and aircraft radios, because they could withstand a lot more vibrations. One thing to watch is that some metal version can't dissipate the same power levels as the later glass versions. I used to run into so called repairs where someone had one metal 6L6 and one 6L6GC glass in a push-pull output. A very bad idea!
"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Dec 31 05:16AM -0800

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASPwNEtSzK8
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 4 topics

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Dec 30 02:31PM -0800

On 2019/12/28 2:50 a.m., John-Del wrote:
 
> Alibaba lists the STK0055N for about $12 shipped:
 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32820841800.html
 
> The one review said it worked...
 
That Alibaba one sure looks authentic! Well, maybe not so authentic...
Like a poor copy of a copy...
 
Ali Baba and the 40 thieves is the full name of the original book if I
am not mistaken...and an interesting name choice for a company!
 
John :-#)#
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Dec 30 03:04PM -0800

Ali Baba was the good guy. The 40 thieves were, well, thieves. Ali Baba learned the secret phrase that the thieves used to gain entrance to a cave where they stashed their loot (as I recall).
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Dec 30 03:12PM -0800

On 2019/12/30 3:04 p.m., John-Del wrote:
> Ali Baba was the good guy. The 40 thieves were, well, thieves. Ali Baba learned the secret phrase that the thieves used to gain entrance to a cave where they stashed their loot (as I recall).
 
True, he only stole from the thieves...which makes him the good guy...(?).
 
John ;-#)#
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Dec 31 05:03AM -0800

On Monday, December 30, 2019 at 6:12:22 PM UTC-5, John Robertson wrote:
> > Ali Baba was the good guy. The 40 thieves were, well, thieves. Ali Baba learned the secret phrase that the thieves used to gain entrance to a cave where they stashed their loot (as I recall).
 
> True, he only stole from the thieves...which makes him the good guy...(?).
 
> John ;-#)#
 
 
In a Robin Hood sort of way I guess. I'm 62 and read the story only once, and that was when I was in second or third grade, so I don't recall the particulars - but my recollection was that Ali Baba was the good guy.
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 09:23AM -0800

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 06:52:40 -0800 (PST), "jfeng@my-deja.com"
 
>Is it a mono or stereo amp? If stereo, is the noise identical in both channels? Can you hear suspicious noises coming directly from the electronics (like crackling from the transformers)? In the absence of any diagnostic linformation, my knee-jerk reflex is to suspect the coupling condensers, followed by the cathode bypass and power supply filters. When you have the noise, try freezing one component at a time using freon spray. If you have an oscilloscope, does the noise show up on the power supply b+? These things do not have very many components, and you ought to be able to divide and conquer.
The amp is stereo. The noise is coming from one side only. I'll post
more info in another post.
Thanks,
Eric
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 09:29AM -0800

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 05:01:07 -0800 (PST), "pfjw@aol.com"
 
>Good luck with it - you will likely need it.
 
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA
The amp you linked to is not my amp. My amp has no solid state devices
except for the bluetooth module. But it is obviously separate from the
amplifying electronics as it only connects to the input through a
relay. Check out the link:
https://www.doukaudio.com/el34-tube-integrated-amplifier-hifi-stereo-pure-class-a-power-amp-p0025-p0025.html
This amp is similar but does not have the bluetooth module.
Eric
"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Dec 30 01:33PM -0800

Same suggestions, although a bad Russian tube is no surprise whatsoever. Jeff is linking you to a reasonable site, however.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 01:56PM -0800

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 13:33:24 -0800 (PST), "pfjw@aol.com"
 
>Same suggestions, although a bad Russian tube is no surprise whatsoever. Jeff is linking you to a reasonable site, however.
 
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA
I already have a really nice isolated auto transformer with a meter.
The amp does draw a little more than 50 watts. I measured it when I
made up the buck xmfr power supply for it. If the 5u4 tube starts to
conduct much different than 80 volts what does that mean?
Eric
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Dec 30 02:54PM -0800

> hour and a half drive away.
> Thanks,
> Eric
 
Hi Eric,
 
 
Look for flashes of light in any of the tubes - that would be serious
and that tube(s) needs immediate replacement.
 
When your amp again misbehaves try unplugging the inputs to it. Still
have loud noise?
 
Then unplug the two 6N9 tubes, one at a time to hear if that makes the
noise go away. These are the phase splitter tubes for the four output
tubes if stereo. Two EL84Bs if mono.
 
At least that is what I would do...
 
John :-#)#
tabbypurr@gmail.com: Dec 30 07:58PM -0800

> hour and a half drive away.
> Thanks,
> Eric
 
Most likely cause is a bad connection somewhere. The fault is most likely after the volume ctrl, though it might be on a secondary supply line. Connections can be prodded with something insulating. A resistor in series with the speaker would keep the volume & Pdiss down. Keep an eye on supply current that it doesn't get excessive during fault.
 
A failing tube, cap or carbon resistor are also possible. Less likely deteriorating insulation. Comparing the voltages in the 2 channels while it faults might help home in on where it's going awry.
 
 
NT
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Dec 30 10:14PM -0600

> Most likely cause is a bad connection somewhere.
 
Thank you Captain Obvious.
If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen that
it was a defective EL34.
Please try to keep up.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 09:12AM -0800

On Sun, 29 Dec 2019 17:34:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
 
 
>You'll probably also need a spindle speed tachometer. Something like
>this:
><https://www.ebay.com/itm/332908532113>
I'll need to check my VFD to see if it can be jumpered to output
120 volts. I couldn't remember if more voltage would cause more
current. Thanks.
Since my son is doing light duty work with the lathe 1/2 HP should
be fine. And the motor he is using now is 1/2 hp. It's just a standard
single phase induction motor though. The washing machine motor has a
tach so that's covered. If I can get the existing VFD to work out of
the washer.
Cheers,
Eric
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 09:15AM -0800

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 05:08:34 -0800 (PST), "pfjw@aol.com"
 
>Do check that the motor is well-and-truly 3-phase, however.
 
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA
As I stated in my post I do have already a VFD that would work except
that I think it only outputs 120 volts. And the motor nameplate says
on it that it is a 3 phase induction motor. The voltage and frequency
are listed as being variable. But Jeff L. suggested that it may be
jumperable so I will need to check the manual. I didn't even think it
may be able to output 120 volts.
Cheers,
Eric
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Dec 30 07:28PM -0800


> https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro/drive_units/gs2-21p0?gclid=CjwKCAiA3abwBRBqEiwAKwICA90933xWXOub4tqOEwtiM2NTBIQOIMPluf5Adgkwgq4LVLq26XmkxxoCZ6kQAvD_BwE
 
> Only one of many options.
 
> Do check that the motor is well-and-truly 3-phase, however.
 
 
So called 'High efficiency' washers have them, and so do some window Air conditioners. They eliminate the need for a fancy gearbox and they can reverse direction easily. A smaller motor can be used in some cases. Variable speed is used to reduce energy use on smaller loads.
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 09:45AM -0800

Well, I peeked inside the amp and took off the transformer covers.
There are indeed 3 transformers. From what folks have said I half
expected to find some sort of weights under the xmfr covers because
the amp is so heavy. Nope, just copper and iron.
Inside the amp are no solid state devices but for the Bluetooth
module, which connects to the input through a relay. So the amp
switches automatically between inputs depending on whether the
Bluetooth module is recieving a signal.
On to the tubes. I turned the amp on again last night and just
listened. After a while, maybe 45 minutes, I heard a crackle. Looking
carefully at the tubes I noticed that one of the EL34 tubes was
glowing brighter at the top than the other EL34 tube. There is a mica
disc in the top of the tube and a little of the filament protrudes
through a small hole in the mica. And this is what was glowing
brighter.
I tapped the tube and heard the noise coming out of just the left
speaker. Tapping the right side tube produced no noise.
I though that maybe one tube was getting more voltage than the
other so I waited for things to cool down and then swapped tubes. The
same tube got brighter but was now on the right side. So the tube must
be bad because the problem travels with the tube and the same tube
gets brighter no matter which side it is plugged into.
So, anybody have suggestions on tubes? I'm not an audiophile. My
hearing isn't good enough. I don't think matched pair tubes would make
any difference to me ears. But I can hear well enough so a fairly high
quality tube set would be desirable. And I do think I should get a
pair so that they will hopefully last tghe same amount of time.
Thanks,
Eric
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Dec 30 12:11PM -0600

> So, anybody have suggestions on tubes?
 
<https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/el34b-valve-art>
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Dec 31 05:21AM +1100

> pair so that they will hopefully last tghe same amount of time.
> Thanks,
> Eric
 
**Sure. Dump it and buy a decent solid state amp. Almost anything will
be far more reliable and better sounding. Why bother with a cheap,
Chinese tube amp?
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 10:50AM -0800

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 05:21:03 +1100, Trevor Wilson
 
>**Sure. Dump it and buy a decent solid state amp. Almost anything will
>be far more reliable and better sounding. Why bother with a cheap,
>Chinese tube amp?
Because I like it. It sounds good. People spontaneously comment on
how good it sounds. Not how it sounds almost as good as a solid state
amp. And I like tubes.
Are you grumpy today?
Eric
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 12:50PM -0800

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 12:11:47 -0600, Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
wrote:
 
>On 12/30/19 11:45 AM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>> So, anybody have suggestions on tubes?
 
><https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/el34b-valve-art>
Thanks Jeff. I may order them today. Trevor at Rage Audio just raged
at me and told me to throw away my tube amp. I wonder if the heat Down
Under is getting to him?
Eric
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Dec 31 09:27AM +1100

>> be far more reliable and better sounding. Why bother with a cheap,
>> Chinese tube amp?
> Because I like it. It sounds good.
 
**How do you know? Have you compared it to a decent, inexpensive solid
state amp? Are you certain that it is not simply acting as an expensive,
unreliable filter?
 
People spontaneously comment on
> how good it sounds.
 
**How would they know? By a very considerable margin, loudspeakers and
room acoustics, dominate the sound of a system. All amplifiers, unless
they are faulty (like cheap, shitty tube amps) sound very similar.
Particularly to listeners who have little of no familiarity with the
system.
 
 
Not how it sounds almost as good as a solid state
> amp. And I like tubes.
 
**Well, I guess we're different. I like my system to provide a close
illusion of the original musical event. No tone controls and no
(audible) distortion. If that result can be achieved with tubes (and it
can, but it costs a lot), then great. SS does it cheaper and more reliably.
 
> Are you grumpy today?
 
**Well, yes, but that's another story. I'm very angry with my global
warming denying government. I'm stuck with the morons for a few more
years. Just as Americans are stuck with man with the intellect and
maturity of a 10 year old boy for POTUS. Still, there is hope. Not much
though.
 
I suggest you try a decent, inexpensive SS amp. Dump the tubes. Good
tube amps do sound pretty damned good. Trouble is, they are REALLY
expensive. For budget sound systems, SS does it better.
 
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Dec 31 09:29AM +1100

> at me and told me to throw away my tube amp. I wonder if the heat Down
> Under is getting to him?
> Eric
 
**34 degrees here in Sydney today. Not too bad, but the smoke from the
bushfires (and the bushfires themselves) is taking it's toll. Depressing
stuff. This is going to be our future.
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 30 02:34PM -0800

On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 09:27:29 +1100, Trevor Wilson
 
>I suggest you try a decent, inexpensive SS amp. Dump the tubes. Good
>tube amps do sound pretty damned good. Trouble is, they are REALLY
>expensive. For budget sound systems, SS does it better.
On the 1st Satuday in August I will be roasting my 25th pig. It's an
annual party. Why don't you fly up and camp out? We have 10 or 12
wooded acres. I have an extra tent. It's a good party and you can
listen to my shitty tube amp and grouse about it while we grouse about
our shitty "leaders". I'm sure the amp will sound better than Trump.
Eric
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Dec 31 09:43AM +1100

> listen to my shitty tube amp and grouse about it while we grouse about
> our shitty "leaders". I'm sure the amp will sound better than Trump.
> Eric
 
**Thank you, but no thanks. Pork is not a meat I like to eat.
 
Have you tried a decent, but inexpensive SS amp?
 
I'd rather listen to, well, ANYTHING, but Trump.
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Dec 30 03:02PM -0800

> pair so that they will hopefully last tghe same amount of time.
> Thanks,
> Eric
 
 
The Russians make pretty good EL34s these days, but I prefer the old 6CA7s. I still have a small stash of those left.
Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Dec 31 10:06AM +1100

On 31/12/2019 10:02 am, John-Del wrote:
>> Thanks,
>> Eric
 
> The Russians make pretty good EL34s these days, but I prefer the old 6CA7s. I still have a small stash of those left.
 
**Me too. I have a bunch of those steel, MIL-Spec ones.
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 11 updates in 3 topics

etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 29 11:29AM -0800

A little over a year ago, or was it two, I bought a Nobsound tube
amp. The amp is a type A and operates in the ultra linear mode. It
uses 1 5U4C Russian rectifier tube, two Chinese 6N9P tubes and two
EL34B tubes. I don't kinow if they are Russian or Chinese.
When I first powered it up everything went smoothly but after maybe
an hour or so it made this loud static like noise. I promptly turned
it off.
Deciphering the directions I realized the amp was made to operate on
110 volts, not the 125 typical in my house. Oops. So I wired up a
transformer in buck configuration to get 110 volts and tried the amp
again. And it has operated fine since.
Until a few days ago. Once again the loud static noise. Changing
the volume changed nothing and I shut the amp off. After it cooled I
pulled each tube out and then re-inserted it thinking that maybe a bad
connection may have been the problem.
After again powering the amp up it is once again performing
flawlessly. So what gives?
I have read about red plating, how it damages tubes pretty fast,
and am thinking that maybe I damaged the tubes running them at the too
high voltage for a while. But why does the amp sound great after it
has a chance to cool off? Since the latest incident I have run the amp
for about 4 hours straight so I don't think the problem is heat
related. I mean just because the amp is hot it doesn't necessarily
mean it is going to act up.
Both times the amp made this noise it was getting its input from a
built in bluetooth reciever. I thought this might be the problem but
since the noise is volume control insensitive it seems to me that the
problem is probably unrelated to the input.
The noise is LOUD too. I mean hurt your ears loud. I never turn the
volume up as loud as the static noise was. When I say static I mean
scratchy crackling noises, not white noise. Kinda like if someone was
dragging one wire across another.
Unfortunately I could not tell if the noise was coming from both
speakers. I just ran over and turned it off the first time it
happened. The second time I tried turning down the volume and then
turned it off.
Should I be shopping for tubes? And could it be any of the tubes?
There are no tube testers local to me. The closest I know of is an
hour and a half drive away.
Thanks,
Eric
"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Dec 30 05:01AM -0800

Chinese amp with Chinese transformers. So:
 
a) Obtain a dental-tool, one of those devices with a sharp, pointy hook on either end. With this tool, check _EVERY_ connection inside the amp. Look for cold-solders, no-solders, cracked solders and so forth.
 
b) https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/246417-exposure-of-fake-chinese-tube-amplifier-nobsound-ms-10d-mkii/ With that in mind, it is unlikely that the tubes within that beast have much to do with your issues, so now go to the boards and look for any faulty connections, over heating components (freeze-spray is your friend), raised traces and so forth.
 
c) Once done with the physical examination, do obtain a metered variable auto-transformer and determine two things:
i) At what voltage does B+ kick in? Given a 5U4, should be about 80 V+/-
ii) And there should be a definite hard rise in current at that onset.
NOTE: You should be drawing within 20% of +/- 50 watts or so, quiescent. If you are drawing substantially less than that, the tubes are eyewash, not functional.
 
Good luck with it - you will likely need it.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
"jfeng@my-deja.com" <jfeng@my-deja.com>: Dec 30 06:52AM -0800

Is it a mono or stereo amp? If stereo, is the noise identical in both channels? Can you hear suspicious noises coming directly from the electronics (like crackling from the transformers)? In the absence of any diagnostic linformation, my knee-jerk reflex is to suspect the coupling condensers, followed by the cathode bypass and power supply filters. When you have the noise, try freezing one component at a time using freon spray. If you have an oscilloscope, does the noise show up on the power supply b+? These things do not have very many components, and you ought to be able to divide and conquer.
etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 29 12:14PM -0800

I scrapped my GE washing machine. Actually, it scrapped itself when
the drum spider broke making repair too expensive to consider. But now
I have what appears to be a nice 3 phase motor. The specs are
ambiguous. The voltage is listed as variable. The frequencey is listed
as variable. The amperage is listed as 2.5 amps. So at least there's
that. It is quite heavy.
Since I removed all the electronics and the wiring harness I am
going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
voltages at different speeds.
I have a pretty nice DVM but I don't know how well it will measure
AC voltage at frequencies much above 60 Hz. The meter will measure AC
frequency. But I'm guessing that the output from the washing machine
VFD is probably pretty far from a good sine wave. The VFD is a pretty
simple bare bones unit. Anybody know?
I do have a VFD that takes 120 volt single phase input and outputs
230 volts at up to 400 Hz. I would like to run the motor from it if I
can but what if the voltage is too high? Can the motor be run at too
high voltage for a while without damage? Will too high voltage just
cause overheating? Since the motor is VFD rated the insulation must be
pretty good so I'm thinking too high voltage is probably OK for at
least a few minutes.
If I can suss out what the original GE VFD expects for signals from
the washing machine control and am able to copy them I will do that.
But If I can't then I will want to try another VFD that I know how to
control.
There are at least two reasons I want to re-use this motor. One is
that I hate to throw out good stuff. It pisses me off to waste stuff.
Another reason to re-use the motor is that it is a high quality motor.
The way it was used in the washer to drive the drum required high
quality bearings and general high quality robust construction. The
drive belt tension was extremely high so this put a very high side
load on the front motor bearing and a high side load on the rear
bearing. The motor bearings still feel great and will probably last
forever.
I'm thinking that with the proper reduction the motor would make a
great motor for a small lathe and my son has a 9 inch South Bend that
would be much easier to use if it had infinite speed control.
Thanks,
Eric
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Dec 29 01:17PM -0800

> would be much easier to use if it had infinite speed control.
> Thanks,
> Eric
 
Did the washer run on 120 or 240? You should have saved the motor control board and the necessary parts of the harness.
 
The voltage and frequency aren't ambiguous, since the drive voltage has to change with the frequency.
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Dec 29 03:49PM -0600

On 12/29/19 3:17 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
>> going to try to get the motor to run on the bench and then measure the
>> voltages at different speeds. > Did the washer run on 120 or 240? You should have saved the motor control
> board and the necessary parts of the harness.
 
Do you even read what you reply to?
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Dec 29 02:35PM -0800

On Sunday, December 29, 2019 at 4:49:46 PM UTC-5, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> >> voltages at different speeds. > Did the washer run on 120 or 240? You should have saved the motor control
> > board and the necessary parts of the harness.
 
> Do you even read what you reply to?
 
 
Do you ever have a day without PMS? He said his VFD. He gave no information on the one that came with the motor, or if it was in good condition. His statement of 'trying to get it working' is rather vague. It may or may not operate like the stand alone VFD.
 
I was hoping to get more information out of him, but all you do is bitch. If he can get it to run from the existing drive, yes he can measure the frequency and voltage. From there, he can determine if his 120V VFD can be programmed for his needs.
 
VFDs aren't that complicated, but a lot of idiots can mess them up. I had to repair a pipe bender at a local Art Canopy factory. They had just moved, and hired a contractor to wire up their machinery. The idiot wired the 208/240 Volt machine to a single 120V circuit. You could stop the thing with your finger.
 
I made the idiot install the right breaker, then I added a boost transformer to run it off 240 to 245 volts. It ran twice as fast as it had, on 208V.
 
Aren't you supposed to be working on your latest plans to catch that #$%Z^7 Road Runner? :)
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Dec 29 05:05PM -0600

On 12/29/19 4:35 PM, Michael Terrell wrote:
> I was hoping to get more information out of him, but all
> you do is bitch.
 
And all you do, as usual, is act like an asshole, then make
the posting about you and how clever you are and how stupid
everyone else is.
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Dec 29 05:34PM -0800


>I scrapped my GE washing machine. (...) But now
>I have what appears to be a nice 3 phase motor.
(...)
>I do have a VFD that takes 120 volt single phase input and outputs
>230 volts at up to 400 Hz.
 
Most VFD's can be jumpered for either 120 or 240VAC. Maker and model
number would be helpful here.
 
>I would like to run the motor from it if I
>can but what if the voltage is too high?
 
If the voltage is too high, you'll burn up either the VFD, motor, or
both.
 
>Can the motor be run at too
>high voltage for a while without damage?
 
No. You'll burn up the motor or burn up the VFD from too much
current.
 
>Will too high voltage just
>cause overheating?
 
Yes. You will rapidly begin sweating profusely as the motor begins
performing a rapid self-disassembly.
 
>I'm thinking that with the proper reduction the motor would make a
>great motor for a small lathe and my son has a 9 inch South Bend that
>would be much easier to use if it had infinite speed control.
 
Washing machine motors are usually 1/2 or 3/4 horsepower. The South
Bend 9" light duty (10K) lathe will suffice with a 3/4 hp motor. The
9" heavy duty flavor (10L) lathe might need a 1 hp motor. Bigger is
always better:
<http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?t=83521>
I'm not sure about the RPM but you should be able to extract it from
the existing motor's nameplate. More:
<https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/what-correct-9a-motor-size-238473/>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.crafts.metalworking/uHEsa0IHoxI>
etc. Lots more on SB lathe motors, etc found with Google.
 
You'll probably also need a spindle speed tachometer. Something like
this:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/332908532113>
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Dec 30 05:08AM -0800

3-phase motor on a washing machine? Must be an industrial device, not hardly an over-the-counter consumer device.
 
With that in mind, you will need a simple 3-phase VFD, as a single device. They may be had with little fuss and at a reasonable cost. Such as:
 
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/drives_-a-_soft_starters/ac_variable_frequency_drives_(vfd)/micro/drive_units/gs2-21p0?gclid=CjwKCAiA3abwBRBqEiwAKwICA90933xWXOub4tqOEwtiM2NTBIQOIMPluf5Adgkwgq4LVLq26XmkxxoCZ6kQAvD_BwE
 
Only one of many options.
 
Do check that the motor is well-and-truly 3-phase, however.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
dmmadushankadisanayaka@gmail.com: Dec 30 12:12AM -0800

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 at 12:20:17 AM UTC+5:30, cLx wrote:
 
> And a little picture of the board :
> http://clx.shacknet.nu/random/IMG_5803.JPG
 
> Thanks !
 
 
There are couple of transistors for drive the IGBT. replace those transistors and your problem will be solved.
 
Thanks
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 3 topics

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Dec 27 06:34AM -0800


> Properly managed, wind power is vastly cheaper and vastly cleaner than solar power. The issue is, simply, that not every site is amenable to wind.
 
> Then, there is tidal power. Not cheap, but once the plant is built, it will last pretty much indefinitely.
 
> Solar power is one of the greatest frauds
 
You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
 
---------------------------------------
Solar Delivers During New England Heatwave [imagine how its going in Death Valley]
PV Magazine
July 25, 2018
-- https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/07/25/heavy-lifting-by-behind-the-meter-solar-power-in-new-england-heatwave/
Lucifer <LuciferMorningstar@bigpond.com>: Dec 27 06:55PM +1100

On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 00:00:54 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
 
>> >> manufacturers use coloured bodies for their resitors? The subsequent
>> >> coded bands become *far* more difficult to read.
 
>> > And some of us (7-10% male, <1% female) are red/green colour challenged,
 
I am but I still got into Telstra.
Lucifer <LuciferMorningstar@bigpond.com>: Dec 27 06:51PM +1100

On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:07:49 -0800 (PST), Jeff Urban
> oftware. But still I would rather have the printer on the network.
 
>Anybody got any idea of what the hell is going on here ? I am not
> throwing out this printer.
 
I have a Ricoh Monochrome network laser printer.
I couldn't find a driver for Mac OSX 10.7 so I cobbled one together.
It doesn't have all the custom settings but it works.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 2 topics

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Dec 25 12:14PM -0800

On Wednesday, December 25, 2019 at 2:08:45 AM UTC-8, William Beaty wrote:
 
> These little GM counters have a typical failure: the 500VDC voltage falls low,...
>three zeners in series are used as feedback reference: one of 1N5272 at 110V, and two of 1N5281 at 200V (to create a 510V zener.)
 
> I found that all three were damaged and leaky
 
For HV use, these parts should have long lives (they're glass/metal packages, no epoxy).
How old IS that unit? Has it been in any odd environments (neutron flux?) ?
 
Replacement with 1N5388 might be a good idea; the axial parts are stil metal/glass,
just have an epoxy overcoat. Surface-mount packages, though, I'd be less sure of.
 
The glass-package parts DID have some light sensitivity, sometimes, so testing
for leakage can be an interesting challenge.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Dec 25 07:32PM -0800

On Wed, 25 Dec 2019 02:08:42 -0800 (PST), William Beaty
<billb@eskimo.com> wrote:
 
<https://seintl.com/radiation-detectors/monitor-4/>
 
>resistors of value between 1M and 4M. They still checked
>out as diodes. But they were conducting at much lower
>voltages than their rating.
 
Offhand, that sounds to me like a dirty, leaky, or water logged PCB.
Did you test the diodes with at least one lead lifted from the PCB?
If you measured the resistance while the diodes were on the PCB or you
did some soldering on the PCB, clean both sides of the PCB first with
distilled water, and then with 91% (or better) isopropyl alcohol. If
there's no conformal coating, try acetone:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bus-pdiHLq0>
 
My Geiger counter doesn't count (sob sob)
<https://www.edn.com/my-geiger-counter-doesnt-count-sob-sob/>
I have known them fail due to HV leaking from the tube
across the PCB. The board has to be very clean, free of
any flux etc. Often commercial ones are attached with
Teflon spacers to minimize charge leakage.
 
>They caused the -HVDC value to be around -260V, so the
>geiger tube wasn't counting.
 
Again, you could be measuring board leakage, not diode leakage.
 
>a 4.7M resistor which leads to the GM tube. All three diodes are in series.
 
>I didn't have any 1N5281 on hand, so I tried a 1N5279 (180V,
>not 200,) and the unit woke up and worked fine.
 
What you might have done is vaporized any water (or contamination)
around the solder pads.
 
>is down by about 8%, if low by 20+20=40V)
 
>Note that there's a trimmer pot on the PCB. Possibly for meter
>calibrate? I didn't change its setting, measured at 362 ohms.
 
Dunno. I couldn't find an inside photo or a schematic. My guess(tm)
is that the pot is in series or across the meter to set full scale.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
stratus46@yahoo.com: Dec 25 01:27PM -0800

On Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 5:40:05 PM UTC-8, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> >overheard a couple of men at a hamfest talking scopes and they said the
> >Hantek was a better scope.
 
> I think you'd best delete that comment before JL reads it. ;)
 
<snip>
 
I don't think JL has issues with Rigol vs whatever. I have a Rigol DS1054Z and have hacked it to turn on all the options. It reports itself as a DS1104Z (100 MHz version). The case does not need to be opened so the tamper seal is intact. It's a lot of scope for $350. Display freeze between triggers is very helpful when sorting out serial data transfers. Its decoding of the serial stream is also useful.
 
Merry Christmas
 

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Dec 25 05:20PM -0500

In article <8144d537-387f-4442-bd17-60d93080afb0@googlegroups.com>,
stratus46@yahoo.com says...
 
> I don't think JL has issues with Rigol vs whatever. I have a Rigol DS1054Z and have hacked it to turn on all the options. It reports itself as a DS1104Z (100 MHz version). The case does not need to be opened so the tamper seal is intact. It's a lot of scope for $350. Display freeze between triggers is very helpful when sorting
out serial data transfers. Its decoding of the serial stream is also useful.
 
> Merry Christmas
 
> G²
 
Some of the electronics comming out of China is a lot for the money.
One reason given for the Hantek was it had a larger screen. Very
helpful it you turn on the on screen measurments.
 
I don't know about other digital scopes as I have not used any, but my
only complaint so far is that if doing an XY display the circle and
other paterns just do not work or show up as clear as they do on the
older analog scopes.
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Dec 25 06:08PM -0600

On 12/25/19 4:20 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> I don't know about other digital scopes as I have not used any
 
And then there's the gold standard of digital scopes.
The HP infinium.
I have one in my shop I acquired for next to nothing.
<https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/R2EAAOSw6btXTP8Y/s-l1600.jpg>
 
 
--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Dec 25 07:39PM -0500

In article <mOedndHSC792ZJ7DnZ2dnUU7-e_NnZ2d@giganews.com>,
jdangus@att.net says...
> The HP infinium.
> I have one in my shop I acquired for next to nothing.
> <https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/R2EAAOSw6btXTP8Y/s-l1600.jpg>
 
No argument here if one has the gold, or as in your case acquire it for
next to nothing.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 3 topics

William Beaty <billb@eskimo.com>: Dec 25 02:08AM -0800

Monitor 4, "Radiation Alert"
S. E. International Inc, Summertown TN
 
These little GM counters have a typical failure: the 500VDC voltage falls low, as the zener regulation diodes become damaged.
 
In the power supply circuit on the PCB, three zeners in series are used as feedback reference: one of 1N5272 at 110V, and two of 1N5281 at 200V (to create a 510V zener.)
 
I found that all three were damaged and leaky, resembling resistors of value between 1M and 4M. They still checked out as diodes. But they were conducting at much lower voltages than their rating. They caused the -HVDC value to be around -260V, so the geiger tube wasn't counting.
 
On the PCB, the first diode is connected between a 470K resistor and a 4.7M resistor which leads to the GM tube. All three diodes are in series.
 
I didn't have any 1N5281 on hand, so I tried a 1N5279 (180V, not 200,) and the unit woke up and worked fine. It might not give calibrated meter readings though, since the energy of each pulse might be down to ((510-40)/(510))^2, or 85% (since the HV supply is down by about 8%, if low by 20+20=40V)
 
Note that there's a trimmer pot on the PCB. Possibly for meter calibrate? I didn't change its setting, measured at 362 ohms.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>: Dec 25 01:40AM

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 18:45:50 -0500, Ralph Mowery
 
>I bought a Hantek a few years back. Was going to go with a Rigol, but
>overheard a couple of men at a hamfest talking scopes and they said the
>Hantek was a better scope.
 
I think you'd best delete that comment before JL reads it. ;)
 
--
 
"When constituencies are small their elected representatives must concern themselves with
the local interests of their constituents. When political representatives are distant and
faceless, on the other hand, and represent vast numbers of unknown constituents, they
represent not their constituents, but special interest groups whose lobbyists are numerous
and ever present. Typically in Europe a technocrat is an ex-politician or a civil servant.
He is unelected, virtually impossible to dislodge during his term of employment and has
been granted extensive executive and even legislative power without popular mandate and
without being directly answerable to the people whose interests he falsely purports to
represent."
 
- Sir James Goldsmith (Member of the European Parliament) 1933 - 1997
tiger56usmc@gmail.com: Dec 24 12:09PM -0800

> Did you ever get a schematic because I need one for mine too.
> Can you send me one via email pdf
> sanfy@netease.com
 
HEY I NEED A SCHEMATIC ALSO NO SOUND REPLACED BIG IC's and small caps still no sound
ANYONE HAVE A diagram of parts
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic

Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Dec 24 10:25AM +1100

A mate wants to replace his aging Tek DSO with a cheap 'n cheerful
Chinese jobbie, like this:
 
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hantek-DSO5102P-Digital-Oscilloscope-2-Channels-100MHz-1GSa-s/264259901849?hash=item3d871e1999:g:JooAAOSwc6paDVHd
 
I have a Rigol DS1054z and am very pleased with it, but his budget
doesn't stretch that far. The Hantek looks decent enough and has Aussie
distribution.
 
Anyone have experience with the brand?
 
Siglent?
 
Etc?
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Dec 23 06:45PM -0500

In article <h6d0n9Fbh7vU1@mid.individual.net>, trevor@rageaudio.com.au
says...
> doesn't stretch that far. The Hantek looks decent enough and has Aussie
> distribution.
 
> Anyone have experience with the brand?
 
I bought a Hantek a few years back. Was going to go with a Rigol, but
overheard a couple of men at a hamfest talking scopes and they said the
Hantek was a better scope. a friend bought one a year or so later. I
think the Hantek is along the same line as the Rigol.
 
There are some hacks on youtube to extend the frequency ranges of the
scopes. I have not tried any of them It could be the scopes need some
componet changes to make use of the extended bandwidth. I don't know.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 2 topics

Michael Mud <michael.muderick@gmail.com>: Dec 22 08:53AM -0800

I use a few of these boxes on older tv's. They are the ones Radio Shack sold. I like to use them with timers, which I program more than a day ahead. The a/d boxes ARE NOT PLUGGED into the timers. What I'm finding is that they shut down on their own, after sitting idle for a number of hours. Are they dependent on a tv being on to stay on? Is there a sensing circuit, or are they just old and tired. TIA.
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Dec 22 04:19PM -0800

On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 8:53:45 AM UTC-8, Michael Mud wrote:
> I use a few of these boxes on older tv's. They are the ones Radio Shack sold. I like to use them with timers, which I program more than a day ahead. The a/d boxes ARE NOT PLUGGED into the timers. What I'm finding is that they shut down on their own, after sitting idle for a number of hours. Are they dependent on a tv being on to stay on? Is there a sensing circuit, or are they just old and tired. TIA.
 
There's a 'sleep timer' or similar named function; it can be turned off, with the menu.
The setting is intended to be nonvolatile, so you don't need to visit it often.
Michael Mud <michael.muderick@gmail.com>: Dec 23 06:31AM -0800

On Sunday, December 22, 2019 at 7:19:09 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:
> > I use a few of these boxes on older tv's. They are the ones Radio Shack sold. I like to use them with timers, which I program more than a day ahead. The a/d boxes ARE NOT PLUGGED into the timers. What I'm finding is that they shut down on their own, after sitting idle for a number of hours. Are they dependent on a tv being on to stay on? Is there a sensing circuit, or are they just old and tired. TIA.
 
> There's a 'sleep timer' or similar named function; it can be turned off, with the menu.
> The setting is intended to be nonvolatile, so you don't need to visit it often.
 
WOW. Thank you. I'm sure that's the problem. Didn't know it existed. Happy Holidays
jjhudak4@gmail.com: Dec 22 09:04AM -0800

On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 12:56:45 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> month use.
 
> I just put one on order as a spare at that price. There are several
> sellers at that price and several more at the $ 50 or so range.
 
FWIW, as a general warning, many of these types of units have bad wiring and violated basics safety principals, such as proper grounding, improper fuse placement/rating or most likely no fuse at all. In this and various other electronic/electrical NGs, there are discussions about what people find. Do some googling about your device of interest and see if ppl have complained.
You may have to do some re-engineering to make the thing safe.
While the pricing of this stuff is really attractive, I will get this stuff from reputable mfg.
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Dec 22 02:25PM -0800

On Saturday, December 21, 2019 at 12:56:45 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
> month use.
 
> I just put one on order as a spare at that price. There are several
> sellers at that price and several more at the $ 50 or so range.
 
 
I tried to buy one of these, last year. About two weeks later, Ebay refunded the money, and the seller no longer had an account on Ebay. Like in these ads, there were hundreds sold, and decent feedback. Also, you have to be careful. Some sellers don't tell you that their soldering tools are 240VAC instead of 120 VAC.
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Dec 22 06:10PM -0500

In article <1bc9d1f5-c699-48da-bf06-57127a8c990d@googlegroups.com>,
terrell.michael.a@gmail.com says...
 
> I tried to buy one of these, last year. About two weeks later, Ebay refunded the money, and the seller no longer had an account on Ebay. Like in these ads, there were hundreds sold, and decent feedback. Also, you have to be careful. Some sellers don't tell you that their soldering tools are 240VAC instead of 120 VAC.
 
I was mostly courious to see if I could get one for the $ 13 price. It
does sound too good to be true. It would make a good spare unit for the
one I already have.
 
 
The 240 volt problem is something to keep in mind.
 
Going through ebay and paypal I doubt I will loose any money, but $ 13
won't break me. I have gotten 2 refunds when I did not get the items
from China.
I never order anything from over seas if I really want it or want it in
a week or two. I have probably bought 2 or 3 hundred items from over
seas. Good results from all but 2 that was made good. Most were in the
$ 10 range. Amazing what kind of trinkets you can get from there for
almost nothing. Most work like I expect them to.
 
I look on Youtube for some of the items and ofen see where someone has
modified them to work much better for a few dollars of parts. I just
modified a $ 15 audio generator from the Youtube instructions for
another $ 5 that makes it work much better. I have enough parts left
over from that to do several more.
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