sci.electronics.repair - 20 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* AVO 8 Mk 4 ... - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a0ca6d125e6a7e97?hl=en
* Speaker Crossover Wiring : Solve the Puzzle - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9ce83c1fb5063b0f?hl=en
* How-To: Common Cause Of Flat Panel PS Failure - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ff5b6703ec041dcc?hl=en
* Recommendation for electronics forums? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a2a97ca7806d8277?hl=en
* Toroidal mains Tx inrush limiter - retrofit - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/da7ba841cd54d76f?hl=en
* NVIDIA GPU defect repair - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/99c97db04cfbb306?hl=en
* PAYPAL WHOLESALE all BRAND(UGG BOOTS,SHOES,CLOTHES,HANDBAG,WATCH,JEANS,
JERSEY,T-SHIRT,SHIRTS,HOODY,EYEGLASS,CAP,SHAWL,WALLT) and so on http://www.24
hours-online.com/. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/dbe0813354d4235d?hl=en
* Backwards electrolytics (again) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1ce61685a5164a31?hl=en
* Foregoing warranty rights - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/db33289fb500ca5c?hl=en
* Looking for a schematic diagram for Philips RTH718 mini-Hi-Fi - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f5d43c7eadbeedfe?hl=en
* Nike air max sale designed new style, high a mattress volume increased,
especially important, we can find this Nike air max is the biggest basketball
shoes with corresponding improving design, stability and packing, the Nike Air
Max 90 last additi - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/eb1f6de3d387c44c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AVO 8 Mk 4 ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a0ca6d125e6a7e97?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 3:02 pm
From: Mike Tomlinson

In article <5Rqlp.4508$o81.2161@newsfe28.ams2>, Arfa Daily
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> writes

> Even more annoying is that I have damaged the
>meter by my own stupidity

Measured the resistance of the mains?

BTDTGTTS.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 3:53 pm
From: "Trevor Wilson"

Arfa Daily wrote:
> "Robin" <see@sig.sep> wrote in message
> news:97olp.1305$bT6.318@newsfe05.ams2...
>> Arfa Daily wrote:
>>> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user
>>> guide that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files
>>> and drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I
>>> thought that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic,
>>> but it seems only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK
>>> 4.
>>> TIA
>>>
>> Is it the circuit diagram at
>> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/avo_universal_avometer_8_mk_i.html ?
>> (Registration necessary for download. I have not done it as mine's
>> a Mk II.)
>> --
>> Robin
>> PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com
>>
>
> Hi Robin, thanks for that. It would appear to be the correct one.
> Looks as though you need to pay to become a member, so I will hold
> off for now until all the feelers that I have out, run dry. It's
> really annoying because I have owned the meter from new when I was an
> apprentice, and I have the book, which has the schematic in it,
> carefully filed away somewhere, but I'm buggered if I can now find
> it. It is in a box file, but said boxfile is not where I know it
> should be. Even more annoying is that I have damaged the meter by my
> own stupidity, so now have the need to fix it ... :-(

**I can't help you, but I do know that AVOs are bloody hard to damage. You
must have put considerable effort into it.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:08 pm
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <Cqmlp.4035$KZ7.856@newsfe08.ams2>,
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user guide
> that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files and
> drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I thought
> that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic, but it seems
> only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK 4.

Have you tried AVO direct? They still make the Model 8, IIRC.

--
*Dance like nobody's watching.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:16 pm
From: Andy Dingley

On Apr 1, 11:53 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

> **I can't help you, but I do know that AVOs are bloody hard to damage. You
> must have put considerable effort into it.

Not that hard. The overload cutout is a sensitive beast and the
adjustment procedure is a little convoluted.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 5:20 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:51bd54ef3adave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <Cqmlp.4035$KZ7.856@newsfe08.ams2>,
> Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user guide
>> that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files and
>> drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I thought
>> that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic, but it seems
>> only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK 4.
>
> Have you tried AVO direct? They still make the Model 8, IIRC.
>
> --
> *Dance like nobody's watching.
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Thanks all. Some useful suggestions there. You are of course all quite
correct in that it is very difficult to damage an AVO. This one is now
around 40 years old, and it has been in use on a daily basis for all of
those years, and has withstood much normal workshop abuse - yes, including
measuring the resistance of the mains ! - many times over. It was a very
high pulse voltage that caused the problem that I now have. I have recently
been working on some pro lighting equipment that makes use of short-arc
discharge lamps, and it is important that the running voltage, once they
have struck, is correct. They are fed with a 50% duty factor square wave at
about 200v p-p, resulting in an average 'AC' voltage of 100V across the
lamp. The AVO reads this nicely on either its 100V or 250V AC ranges. When
the lamp is being started, however, it is subjected to a pulsed igniter
voltage of several kV. When the lamp strikes, its impedance drops quite low,
and this swamps the igniter circuit and stops it. Stupidly, I had the meter
connected during the ignition sequence, and now, 100V of 'real' sinusoidal
AC reads about 35V ...

I am at this point thinking that it is going to be one of the two rectifier
diodes, which seem to be "OA" germanium types, but I guess it could also be
a fried metal film precision resistor. Needless to say, there is no visible
evidence of any problem :-\

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Speaker Crossover Wiring : Solve the Puzzle
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9ce83c1fb5063b0f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:39 pm
From: "Chris F."

> http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Home/tabid/37/Default.aspx
>
> Why should I have to look this up for you?
>
>

The owner of the speakers had contacted Wharfedale, but apparently the specs
for these speakers were lost in a fire. Looking on the net, I see other
people have encountered the same problem but nobody seems to know of a
solution.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 7:03 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> The owner of the speakers had contacted Wharfedale, but
> apparently the specs for these speakers were lost in a fire.
> Looking on the net, I see other people have encountered the
> same problem but nobody seems to know of a solution.

I would suggest this... Use the inductors and capacitors in the "common
sense" way I suggested, and measure the response of each driver pair
separately. This will give you an idea of whether you're headed in the right
direction.

Without knowing the impedances and responses of the "bare" drivers, there is
no rational way to determine what the crossover was. There is no magic
formula. One does not generally design crossovers without knowing the base
behavior of the drivers.

You will have to figure this out on your own. We can make suggestions for
starting points, but that's it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How-To: Common Cause Of Flat Panel PS Failure
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ff5b6703ec041dcc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:51 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Bob Villa wrote:
>
> On Mar 31, 6:20 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
> > > Hey Mike when can I expect this PSU to fail...a few years from now?
> > > Thanks for your gracious responses.
> >
> > When can you post a real question?
>
> Alas, the mastertech doesn't understand sarcasm.

You can't even do sarcasm well, and I'm not being sarcastic.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid� on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Recommendation for electronics forums?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a2a97ca7806d8277?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:52 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Wiebe Cazemier wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> >> >
> >> >Smitty Two wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> In article <4d854cd2$0$2434$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
> >> >> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > The subject of my current research is the ins and
> >> >> > outs of op amps.
> >> >>
> >> >> A little pun, there?
> >> >
> >> > A bit bipolar, if you ask me...
> >>
> >> I dunno, but then again I may be biased.
> >
> >
> > I figured that you were a little off center. :)
> >
> >
>
> Now that's unfair feedback :)

Not if you're at unity gain... :)

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Toroidal mains Tx inrush limiter - retrofit
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/da7ba841cd54d76f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 5:15 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Mike Tomlinson"
Nutcase Kook"
>
>>This green thermistor limiter 10 deg C over ambient with no throughput and
>>20 deg C over with 0.4 amp mains with amp driving load.
>
> Bit warmer than I would be comfortable with.
>

** So neither of you has a clue how NTC surge limiters are meant to work ?

..... Phil

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 2 2011 12:33 am
From: "N_Cook"

Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:GZ$5xNEjVclNFwGu@jasper.org.uk...
> In article <in4d0o$4dq$1@dont-email.me>, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
> writes
>
> >This green thermistor limiter 10 deg C over ambient with no throughput
and
> >20 deg C over with 0.4 amp mains with amp driving load.
>
> Bit warmer than I would be comfortable with.
>
> --
> Mike Tomlinson

Odd you say that. The next amp I looked at, this time mixer amp but also
300W and toroid Tx. Owner bought knowing 2 of the 8 channels were duff and
used as such for some years. He now needs all 8 ch .
Before he owned it , it must have been dropped and broke the awkward
size/shape mains switch. So someone spade jumpered the leads and covered
with heatshrink, leaving un-blanked off hole in chassis. Under his
heatshrink and touching the ordinary mains wire sleeving is an inrush
thermistor. Black , with 0.8mm leads, marked SG 130, 3.2R cold, 0.8R 20 sec
of soldering iron barrel. Presumably originally fixed to the sw and
unsupported other lead other than cable tie further down the cable loom.
Hopefully originally there was some woven glass sleeving over the thermistor

data for SG130 RTI Surge Guard, 0.07 ohms at 7 amps max , 2.5R at 25 deg C
27 joules rating for a 15 x 6.3 mm black (body radiator?) lump and .8mm
leads for anyone who can convert to temperature (not on the RTI datasheet)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NVIDIA GPU defect repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/99c97db04cfbb306?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 5:21 pm
From: divx dude

Vostro 1400 DELL laptop with Nvidia 8400m-gs GPU.
i just got into this a couple months ago so am somewhat under informed
but have been trying to catch up.

the lappy arrived to me dead a couple months ago i got to gasp back
to life for a few hours and died again.

reasearched and found defect info and lawsuit claims site. filed and
acepted for "free repair" by Dell.
skeptical going in seems i was right the got the machine back from
Dell , they replaced the "MLB".
I immediately ran temperature tool and benchmark 55-60C at idle
climbed to 89C after about 20 minutes of benchmark.

I been told that was above proper temps and i still have the defect
and have Dell picking it up again for further action.

Is anyone really up on solutions to this? i am of the impression the
problem is not repairable and Dell should begin with offering me
something else.

would like to have the OEM specificaiton dox that show the max
tolerated temps to use as a guide in my interaction with Dell as i
intend to ride them until a fair settlement is reached.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 6:48 pm
From: Sylvia Else

On 2/04/2011 11:21 AM, divx dude wrote:
> Vostro 1400 DELL laptop with Nvidia 8400m-gs GPU.
> i just got into this a couple months ago so am somewhat under informed
> but have been trying to catch up.
>
> the lappy arrived to me dead a couple months ago i got to gasp back
> to life for a few hours and died again.
>
> reasearched and found defect info and lawsuit claims site. filed and
> acepted for "free repair" by Dell.
> skeptical going in seems i was right the got the machine back from
> Dell , they replaced the "MLB".
> I immediately ran temperature tool and benchmark 55-60C at idle
> climbed to 89C after about 20 minutes of benchmark.

Do you really live in a jurisdiction where a company can ship you a dead
laptop, and not be liable to supply at least a new replacement, if not a
cash refund?

Consumers are sadly underinformed about their rights in these sorts of
situation.

Sylvia.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/dbe0813354d4235d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Backwards electrolytics (again)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1ce61685a5164a31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 6:53 pm
From: Sylvia Else

On 31/03/2011 10:19 PM, Stroonz wrote:
> On Mar 31, 6:36 am, "Phil Allison"<phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> .
>>
>> ** With all those damn electros installed in reverse polarity, be a damn
>> site easier to alter the DC rails to suit - wouldn't it ??
>>
>> ..... Phil ;-)
>
>
> Geez Phil, what kind of Phil Allison answer is that? And a smiley
> emoticon? Since you're off your game, I thought I'd take the liberty
> and reply to Jeff in the proper Allison manner:

Thing is, Jeff hasn't disagreed with Phil, or said something that Phil
disagrees with. Phil reserves his insults for what he regards to be
their proper use - as a debating tool.

Sylvia.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Foregoing warranty rights
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/db33289fb500ca5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 7:51 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:08:59 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

>> My favorite example is the cell phone. I have a small side business
>> repairing these and supplying spares and replacements. None of them
>> are built to be repaired, so that's a challenge. Yet, the condition
>> of most of the phones I see are so bad, that were it any other
>> product, I would claim that the owner was intentionally abusing the
>> device. With an average lifetime of about 18 months for a consumer
>> dumb phone, the level of quality need not be much above minimal.
>
>I'm curious. My current cell phone -- a Korean Lucky Goldstar -- is almost
>five years old. Never had problems with it, and it's in great shape. (I
>rarely abuse my purchases.) What, exactly, are the things you see that
>suggest products -- cell phones or otherwise -- are abused?

Mechanical damage, broken hinges, scratched screens, fingernails
through the key tops, mangled connector covers, broken antennas,
cracked earphone connectors, cracked power/accessory connectors, water
damage, dirt, filth, crud, good, pogs, labels, cracked case, bulging
batteries, etc.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/cell-phones-02.jpg>
These are some of the recent arrivals, after some cleaning. The
really beat up phones, I don't bother trying to fix (unless I need the
parts). My guess is that I have about 150 phones in stock.

Other vendors:
<http://www.recellular.com>
<http://www.dotcells.com>
etc...

Incidentally, LG phones are generally good quality, fairly easy to
fix, and tend to survive. I've had problems with the ENV2 models
falling apart. I'm currently using an LG VX-8300.

>On a related note... I was talking with a friend who's my age, and owns a
>company that makes consumer audio equipment. He agreed with me that pride of
>ownership has largely disappeared. Nothing seems to be of lasting value.
>Products become obsolete after only a few months.

Products are obsolete on arrival. The next generation and possibly
one or two generations after that are in the design, manufacture, and
distribution chain when the current version hits the market. Because
the obvious answer to any problems with the current model is to just
wait for the "new and improved" model that follows, there's no
incentive to fix any of the first generation problems.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 8:06 pm
From: Smitty Two

In article <dm2dp6pteut9tnbknl4vbk5furp1lgq0hg@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

> Incidentally, LG phones are generally good quality, fairly easy to
> fix, and tend to survive.

As I was leaning over a railing, talking on it, my LG slipped from my
hand and fell 14 feet onto concrete. It landed flat. Back came off,
battery popped out. Nary a scratch and works perfectly since.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 8:09 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeff Liebermann"
>
> Some wanker asked:
>
>> What, exactly, are the things you see that
>>suggest products -- cell phones or otherwise -- are abused?
>
> Mechanical damage, broken hinges, scratched screens, fingernails
> through the key tops, mangled connector covers, broken antennas,
> cracked earphone connectors, cracked power/accessory connectors, water
> damage, dirt, filth, crud, good, pogs, labels, cracked case, bulging
> batteries, etc.

** I was given a " Palm Pilot " to fix once.

About two weeks prior to my receiving it - a whole container of yoghurt
( flavour unknown) had leaked over it while in a woman's handbag. The woman
concerned had then only wiped it over with a cloth and noted it did not
work.

She left the battery inside - so of course it was ruined.

My own mobile has copped a spillage of bleach and also of liquid detergent
in a similar way - but by immediately removing the battery and rinsing it
with warm water, it lives to fight another day.

Why is it that no maker ever gives advice on what to do if your pocket
digital wonder gets accidentally immersed or suffers a spillage ??

Get the damn battery OUT immediately - then rinse and dry it pronto.

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Looking for a schematic diagram for Philips RTH718 mini-Hi-Fi
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f5d43c7eadbeedfe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 7:55 pm
From: "China gogo"

Yes. No Results Found

"b" <reverend_rogers@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bfc7ab8e-a723-4bc3-b8fa-7eb18b080174@r3g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> have you tried eserviceinfo.com?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nike air max sale designed new style, high a mattress volume increased,
especially important, we can find this Nike air max is the biggest basketball
shoes with corresponding improving design, stability and packing, the Nike Air
Max 90 last additi
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/eb1f6de3d387c44c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

3:22 PM Penedão 1 comments

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 1:19 am
From: "N_Cook"

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:94t9p6hqfeehlogvsf9vdojudmh7aufh36@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:30:03 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >Anyone else coming across this ?
>
> Yes. It's a major source of my business. Usually it's someone who
> has purchased an extended warranty with onsite repair, that is on try
> #3 to get it fixed right. Some things just can't be done at the
> customers home or office. Similarly, with purchases of Apple Care,
> who really don't want to wait up to 4 months to get their whatever
> fixed. If they really need their computer to working now, they'll
> forego the warranty and deal with a disreputable but fast repair
> person like me.
>
> >Twice in about 2 months, an owner of new
> >music kit wanting me to repair intermittant faults after being used only
a
> >few times from new. So loosing his warranty rights. 2 different companies
,
> >reason for first owner foregoing his rights, unknown. This second time
> >owner was quoted 2 months minimum turn around, sending back to the
factory
> >(import/asembly plant) in another part of the country, but otherwise no
> >charge. Is there an excessive number of returns these days or what is the
> >reason?
>
> It's the 2 month delay that is probably the primary incentive. A
> friend, looking over my shoulder, casually mentioned that it took a
> large telescope manufacturer about 7 months to return his telescope
> for out of warranty repair. Delays are also not very consistent. I've
> seen amazingly fast turn around by HP and Dell on warranty repairs
> (usually exchange for another repaired unit), followed by atrocious
> delays the next month, sometimes losing the item. My guess is that
> all these vendors are using outsourced repair facilities, which are
> having their own problems ranging from too much business (overload),
> to variations on ineptitude.
>
> Locally, the various authorized service centers, are constantly
> complaining about delivery delays on replacement components. Their
> contract with the manufacturer requires that they use only brand new
> parts, obtained directly from the manufacturer. No eBay or
> cannibalized parts. So, the customers waits, even though the missing
> part is sitting only a few feet away.
>
> Drivel: You have no idea how many laptop hinges I repair. Actually,
> I have no idea either as I don't keep count, but it's plenty. Broken
> hinges seem to be a problem. Some vendors cover them under warranty,
> while others claim that since their hinges are perfect, it must be
> customer abuse that caused them to break apart.
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558
> # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Is this the scenario.
These companies import populated boards from China etc and asssemble in this
country ( England). Apart from a designer there may be no one technical
enough in the assembly plant to do repair. Which is fine when there are
plenty of new units around to send out as in-warranty replacements. But that
only works if the rate of returns is say 2 percent , the returns sold on in
that specialist auction house in Nottingham . But if the returns is more
like 10 percent then it will impact on the viability of the company

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:08 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> My favorite example is the cell phone. I have a small side business
> repairing these and supplying spares and replacements. None of them
> are built to be repaired, so that's a challenge. Yet, the condition
> of most of the phones I see are so bad, that were it any other
> product, I would claim that the owner was intentionally abusing the
> device. With an average lifetime of about 18 months for a consumer
> dumb phone, the level of quality need not be much above minimal.

I'm curious. My current cell phone -- a Korean Lucky Goldstar -- is almost
five years old. Never had problems with it, and it's in great shape. (I
rarely abuse my purchases.) What, exactly, are the things you see that
suggest products -- cell phones or otherwise -- are abused?

On a related note... I was talking with a friend who's my age, and owns a
company that makes consumer audio equipment. He agreed with me that pride of
ownership has largely disappeared. Nothing seems to be of lasting value.
Products become obsolete after only a few months.

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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 4:30 am
From: "N_Cook"

This green thermistor limiter 10 deg C over ambient with no throughput and
20 deg C over with 0.4 amp mains with amp driving load.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 5:30 am
From: Mike Tomlinson

In article <in4d0o$4dq$1@dont-email.me>, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
writes

>This green thermistor limiter 10 deg C over ambient with no throughput and
>20 deg C over with 0.4 amp mains with amp driving load.

Bit warmer than I would be comfortable with.

--
Mike Tomlinson

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CRT vertical deflection -- bad solder joints?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f637b1e686d3f98e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 5:50 am
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"Mike Tomlinson" <mike@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:+w2nr3BDz0kNFwLl@jasper.org.uk...
> In article <imsmrd$5nf$1@dont-email.me>, William Sommerwerck
> <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> writes
>
>>But I learned a long time ago that it's
>>more important to simply get the damned thing fixed. If that means
>>shotgunning likely components, so be it.
>
> Would you be happy for a car mechanic to shotgun a fault on your car,
> with you paying for his time and all the parts he is unnecessarily
> fitting?
>
> --
> Mike Tomlinson

If the parts are cheap with little or no additional labor, and done to
prevent a repeat failure in the near time frame, as is often the case with
TV's, then yes, I would be happy, and so are my customers.

Mark Z.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please Visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0574cb4adae6e901?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 6:13 am
From: PeterD

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--
I'm never going to grow up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Compaq Presario 1230 Laptop Accessing BIOS Setup
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/82c722abeb2ce43e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 7:57 am
From: jaugustine@verizon.net

Hi Geoff,

I downloaded the SM (THANKS), but that procedure on page 21 has to do
with the power on password.

My issue is the BIOS Settings password. However, I tried that procedure,
but waited longer than 30 seconds to be sure of the "clear". Unfortunately,
it did not work. I am still faced with the BIOS settings PW prompt.

I searched the .PDF for every occurrence of "password", but the only ones
I found relates to power on password. I also checked "Computer Setup"
(press F10), but there was no information regarding a password, only
power management, etc.

The screen I see after I press F10 is: "PhoenixBios Setup Utility".
Below that is the slot for a password.

I also searched the .PDF for "Phoenix" (not found), "Bios" (found, but
no information on a password).

Apparently the PW is stored in the BIOS which no doubt is a "flash" BIOS.

Again, thank you for the SM link, John

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:14:03 +0000 (UTC), in sci.electronics.repair you wrote:

>jaugustine@verizon.net wrote:
>
>> If I can change the boot sequence, I can do without the floppy drive,
>> but to get into the settings by pressing F10, I have to enter a password.
>> I don't have the phone number of the person I bought it from who lives
>> out of town.
>
><http://www.elhvb.com/mobokive/edwin/laptops/compaq/Compaq%20Presario/Compaq%20Presario%201230%201232.pdf>
>
>Page 21.
>
>Geoff.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 11:06 am
From: jaugustine@verizon.net

Hi,

Laptop is "Working"!

I have system information regarding all my old computers so I decided to
look for one that has a Phoenix BIOS made around the same time as this 1230.
I found one in my Fujitsu laptop. I have the OM for the Fujitsu, so I looked
for information regarding BIOS setup. On that page I saw, if I press Esc key
during boot up (Fujitsu), I will be presented with an option to boot from a
different drive.

I decided to try that on the 1230, but I was not presented with this
option (pick a drive). Instead, I saw a message that stated "configuration
was restored" (not exact words). Not only that, my floppy drive is
"working"!

I don't know if pressing Esc key restored parameters, but I made a note
of that should this event happen again. That's not all. Now I can press
F10 during power up and get into BIOS settings without a pass word!
Note: I searched the SM (.PDF) for "Esc" (whole word), but no information
was found.

Of course I changed the boot sequence to CD drive first.

Again, Thanks to everyone, John

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:43:39 -0500, in sci.electronics.repair you wrote:

>Hi,
>
> I service TVs, etc. Once in a while, I service my own computers, one of
>which is a Compaq Presario 1230 laptop with Windows 98se I bought second hand
>a few years ago. You may consider this obsolete, but to me, it is very
>useful.
>
> Recently, during power up, I saw "Error, O2BO: Diskette drive A error".
>I removed the floppy drive, but I got the same error, which could be
>it's controller?
>
> I inserted a bootable CD rom hoping that the boot sequence might start at
>the CD rom, but it didn't. It must be A: drive first. Note: The HDD is fine
>because I removed it and checked it on anther PC.
>
> If I can change the boot sequence, I can do without the floppy drive,
>but to get into the settings by pressing F10, I have to enter a password.
>I don't have the phone number of the person I bought it from who lives
>out of town.
>
> I removed the RTC/CMOS battery (soldered in) and waited 24 hours
>hoping that it may "clear" the password requirement, but it did not.
>Maybe I should wait longer?
>
> Pressing F10 presents a screen that says, "Phoenix BIOS Setup Utility"
>followed by a prompt for a password. I tried some by guessing, but it
>didn't work. I hope the password isn't stored in the BIOS.
>
> Do you know a technique to bypass the password requirement so
>I can change the boot sequence?
>
> Thank You in Advance, John
>
>PS, Remove "ine" from my email address
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DATING TIPS FOR GUYS - DATING FOR HOT GIRLS - FREE ONLINE CHATTING HERE
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6541a776d33d0cc6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 7:01 am
From: devi vithya

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== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 8:45 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user guide
that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files and drawers
high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I thought that the 'net
would be awash with copies of the schematic, but it seems only for the Mk 2,
which is totally different to the MK 4.

TIA

Arfa

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 10:40 am
From: "Robin"

Arfa Daily wrote:
> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user
> guide that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files
> and drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I
> thought that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic,
> but it seems only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK
> 4.
> TIA
>
Is it the circuit diagram at
http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/avo_universal_avometer_8_mk_i.html ?
(Registration necessary for download. I have not done it as mine's a Mk
II.)
--
Robin
PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 1:46 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Robin" <see@sig.sep> wrote in message
news:97olp.1305$bT6.318@newsfe05.ams2...
> Arfa Daily wrote:
>> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user
>> guide that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files
>> and drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I
>> thought that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic,
>> but it seems only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK
>> 4.
>> TIA
>>
> Is it the circuit diagram at
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/avo_universal_avometer_8_mk_i.html ?
> (Registration necessary for download. I have not done it as mine's a Mk
> II.)
> --
> Robin
> PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com
>

Hi Robin, thanks for that. It would appear to be the correct one. Looks as
though you need to pay to become a member, so I will hold off for now until
all the feelers that I have out, run dry. It's really annoying because I
have owned the meter from new when I was an apprentice, and I have the book,
which has the schematic in it, carefully filed away somewhere, but I'm
buggered if I can now find it. It is in a box file, but said boxfile is not
where I know it should be. Even more annoying is that I have damaged the
meter by my own stupidity, so now have the need to fix it ... :-(

Arfa

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 1:59 pm
From: "Ian Field"

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:5Rqlp.4508$o81.2161@newsfe28.ams2...
>
>
> "Robin" <see@sig.sep> wrote in message
> news:97olp.1305$bT6.318@newsfe05.ams2...
>> Arfa Daily wrote:
>>> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user
>>> guide that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files
>>> and drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I
>>> thought that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic,
>>> but it seems only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK
>>> 4.
>>> TIA
>>>
>> Is it the circuit diagram at
>> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/avo_universal_avometer_8_mk_i.html ?
>> (Registration necessary for download. I have not done it as mine's a Mk
>> II.)
>> --
>> Robin
>> PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com
>>
>
> Hi Robin, thanks for that. It would appear to be the correct one. Looks as
> though you need to pay to become a member, so I will hold off for now
> until all the feelers that I have out, run dry. It's really annoying
> because I have owned the meter from new when I was an apprentice, and I
> have the book, which has the schematic in it, carefully filed away
> somewhere, but I'm buggered if I can now find it. It is in a box file, but
> said boxfile is not where I know it should be. Even more annoying is that
> I have damaged the meter by my own stupidity, so now have the need to fix
> it ... :-(

There may be an outside chance its turned up on
alt.binaries.e-book.technical at some time or other.

Whether I'd have downloaded it is another matter, and it would take a while
to search my archives.

You could try a REQ: on that group while I try to remember where I put all
the unsorted stuff.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 2:03 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 01 Apr 2011 21:46:53 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

> "Robin" <see@sig.sep> wrote in message
> news:97olp.1305$bT6.318@newsfe05.ams2...
>> Arfa Daily wrote:
>>> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user
>>> guide that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files
>>> and drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I
>>> thought that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic, but
>>> it seems only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK 4.
>>> TIA
>>>
>> Is it the circuit diagram at
>> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/avo_universal_avometer_8_mk_i.html ?
>> (Registration necessary for download. I have not done it as mine's a
>> Mk II.)
>> --
>> Robin
>> PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com
>>
>>
> Hi Robin, thanks for that. It would appear to be the correct one. Looks
> as though you need to pay to become a member, so I will hold off for now
> until all the feelers that I have out, run dry. It's really annoying
> because I have owned the meter from new when I was an apprentice, and I
> have the book, which has the schematic in it, carefully filed away
> somewhere, but I'm buggered if I can now find it. It is in a box file,
> but said boxfile is not where I know it should be. Even more annoying is
> that I have damaged the meter by my own stupidity, so now have the need
> to fix it ... :-(
>
> Arfa

That's too bad. I have some old gear I used as an apprentice that have a
high value in the nostalgia department. An old EICO 232 VTVM, B&K 1801
freq. counter, Beckman Tech 310 DVM, Amprobe Amp Clamp and some other
things that I can't think of right now.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 2:09 pm
From: John Williamson

Arfa Daily wrote:
>
>
> "Robin" <see@sig.sep> wrote in message
> news:97olp.1305$bT6.318@newsfe05.ams2...
>> Arfa Daily wrote:
>>> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user
>>> guide that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files
>>> and drawers high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I
>>> thought that the 'net would be awash with copies of the schematic,
>>> but it seems only for the Mk 2, which is totally different to the MK
>>> 4.
>>> TIA
>>>
>> Is it the circuit diagram at
>> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/avo_universal_avometer_8_mk_i.html ?
>> (Registration necessary for download. I have not done it as mine's a
>> Mk II.)
>> --
>> Robin
>> PM may be sent to rbw0{at}hotmail{dot}com
>>
>
> Hi Robin, thanks for that. It would appear to be the correct one. Looks
> as though you need to pay to become a member, so I will hold off for now
> until all the feelers that I have out, run dry. It's really annoying
> because I have owned the meter from new when I was an apprentice, and I
> have the book, which has the schematic in it, carefully filed away
> somewhere, but I'm buggered if I can now find it. It is in a box file,
> but said boxfile is not where I know it should be. Even more annoying is
> that I have damaged the meter by my own stupidity, so now have the need
> to fix it ... :-(
>
Have you tried:-

http://www.megger.com/eu/index.php

And get a log on for the support pages?

They seem to be the sort of company who do product support properly. It
might even be worth giving them a call at their head office in Dover.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 2:33 pm
From: Terry Casey

In message <Cqmlp.4035$KZ7.856@newsfe08.ams2> on Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:45:37 +0100
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> Anybody got a copy of the schematic that's in the back of the user guide
> that they can scan for me, please ? I've searched all my files and drawers
> high and low, and can't find my book anywhere ... I thought that the 'net
> would be awash with copies of the schematic, but it seems only for the Mk 2,
> which is totally different to the MK 4.
>

Have you tried the Vintage Radio Forum?

http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/index.php

They have a vintage test equipment forum and there are lots of nice, helpful
people on there ...

On the other hand, there's also me ...

Terry

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 3:02 pm
From: Mike Tomlinson

In article <5Rqlp.4508$o81.2161@newsfe28.ams2>, Arfa Daily
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> writes

> Even more annoying is that I have damaged the
>meter by my own stupidity

Measured the resistance of the mains?

BTDTGTTS.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How To Choose Soccer Jersey?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4df7e984d9f49149?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 11:42 am
From: davi

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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 11:43 am
From: "Chris F."

Someone brought me an old Wharfedale model W-90 monitor speaker, a massive
old beast with two highs, two midranges, and two 15" woofers. The problem
was that the crossover circuits are damaged; two 50 ohm potentiometers were
burned up, and someone had attempted to bypass them, getting the wiring
mixed up in the process. I've drawn up a diagram of the components,
numbering each component lead rather than show how they were hooked up. You
can view the diagram here:

http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk275/packrat79/?action=view&current=WharfedaleSpeaker.jpg

I'm hoping that someone can figure out the arrangement, and rather than have
to draw up a schematic for me, you can just point out which numbers to
connect.
Some notes:
-the connections between the high and midrange speakers appear to be
original, though I cannot be certain
-the woofers are presently connected in series (each measures 4 ohms)
-values of the other components are as follows:
C1 - 25 uF 50VDC
C2 - 12 uF 25VAC (much larger than C1)
L1, L2 - values unknown, but both look identical
VR1, VR2 - 50 ohms, 5 watts wirewound

I played around for a while and was able to achieve a decent sound with the
following configuration: 1-3-8-13, 2-18-24, 22-23, 4-5, 7-17, 9-10, 11-19,
14-21. This doesn't seem right though, since only two leads of each pot are
used, and L2 isn't used at all....
Any help with this would be appreciated.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 11:45 am
From: "Chris F."

I should note that L1 and L2 both measure about 1 ohm.

"Chris F." <zappyman@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d961cda$0$3982$9a566e8b@news.aliant.net...
> Someone brought me an old Wharfedale model W-90 monitor speaker, a massive
> old beast with two highs, two midranges, and two 15" woofers. The problem
> was that the crossover circuits are damaged; two 50 ohm potentiometers
> were burned up, and someone had attempted to bypass them, getting the
> wiring mixed up in the process. I've drawn up a diagram of the components,
> numbering each component lead rather than show how they were hooked up.
> You can view the diagram here:
>
> http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk275/packrat79/?action=view&current=WharfedaleSpeaker.jpg
>
> I'm hoping that someone can figure out the arrangement, and rather than
> have to draw up a schematic for me, you can just point out which numbers
> to connect.
> Some notes:
> -the connections between the high and midrange speakers appear to be
> original, though I cannot be certain
> -the woofers are presently connected in series (each measures 4 ohms)
> -values of the other components are as follows:
> C1 - 25 uF 50VDC
> C2 - 12 uF 25VAC (much larger than C1)
> L1, L2 - values unknown, but both look identical
> VR1, VR2 - 50 ohms, 5 watts wirewound
>
> I played around for a while and was able to achieve a decent sound with
> the following configuration: 1-3-8-13, 2-18-24, 22-23, 4-5, 7-17, 9-10,
> 11-19, 14-21. This doesn't seem right though, since only two leads of each
> pot are used, and L2 isn't used at all....
> Any help with this would be appreciated.
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 12:19 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

The following is a guess. It would be useful to know the inductance of the
coils, the impedance of the drivers, and the crossover frequencies.

The woofers would not normally be wired in series. I'm guessing that each
woofer uses one inductor for a low-pass filter.

That leaves the caps. The 25uF cap would most-likely go in series with the
midrange units, the 12uF in series with the tweeters.

Both capacitors should be non-polar. I don't know why the 25uF isn't.

Because the level controls can interact with the crossover, it's hard to
know where they went.

This is a "common sense" configuration. We don't know what the Wharfedale
designers were trying to do, or what driver problems they were trying to
compensate for.

The probability of getting the "right" configuration is small. I once worked
through the crossover for a classic two-way system -- the Advent -- and it
was neither simple nor obvious.

Why haven't you contacted Wharfedale?

http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Home/tabid/37/Default.aspx

Why should I have to look this up for you?

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 12:00 pm
From: Wiebe Cazemier

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

>> >
>> >Smitty Two wrote:
>> >>
>> >> In article <4d854cd2$0$2434$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
>> >> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > The subject of my current research is the ins and
>> >> > outs of op amps.
>> >>
>> >> A little pun, there?
>> >
>> > A bit bipolar, if you ask me...
>>
>> I dunno, but then again I may be biased.
>
>
> I figured that you were a little off center. :)
>
>

Now that's unfair feedback :)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mixet.se Media Center - B2B Marketplace
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/71a3c6be6d448c75?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 1 2011 1:01 pm
From: Giuelith Diamond

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till http://Mixet.se

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sci.electronics.repair - 13 new messages in 6 topics - digest

1:18 AM Penedão 0 comments

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Toroidal mains Tx inrush limiter - retrofit - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/da7ba841cd54d76f?hl=en
* Backwards electrolytics (again) - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1ce61685a5164a31?hl=en
* Foregoing warranty rights - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/db33289fb500ca5c?hl=en
* motherboard RAM failures - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3e25b3ae78058770?hl=en
* OT: Temperature control group? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0de471c409570c55?hl=en
* (paypal payment)( http://www.24hours-online.com/) cheap wholesale ED hardy
Christan Audigier,LV,BOSS etc. brand caps hat belts and other products free
shipping - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a429e2a1171d4501?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 4:58 pm
From: Grant

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:12:22 -0700, dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) wrote:

>>>> Then what causes my bulk eraser to shut off when it overheats
>>>> -- then come back when it cools off?
>>
>>> That's a resettable *thermal* fuse, NOT a fuse designed for
>>> overcurrent protection.
>>
>>I had always thought that at least some polyfuses /were/ resettable.
>
>Polyfuses (in the sense of the term I've always heard used) are
>self-resetting, unless you hit 'em so hard that you damage them.
>
>They aren't designed for use at mains voltages/currents, though... at
>least, I haven't seen any that are.

Me neither, other thing with polyfuses is that there's approx 2:1 current
difference between trigger point and hold point. I have 16V and 30V poly-
fuses here, generally for 12V or 24V SLA battery powered gear.
>
>The self-resetting thermal "fuses" that you'd find in a bulk eraser or
>similar "not intended for a 100% duty cycle - let it cool down!"
>device are (I think) of the bimetallic type, somewhat akin to what you
>would find in a traditional wall thermostat.

Some are the same thing as used in clothes dryer for thermostat, 100% duty
cycle for years on end ;) Lower temperature for thermostat and a higher
temp one for overheat safety cutout.

Grant.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 5:25 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Grant"
>
>>They aren't designed for use at mains voltages/currents, though... at
>>least, I haven't seen any that are.
>
> Me neither, other thing with polyfuses is that there's approx 2:1 current
> difference between trigger point and hold point.

** That is utterly misleading !!

There are no separate trigger and hold points with PolySwitches.

The makers specs allow for some device to device variation in the actual
current level that will trigger a RANGE of similar devices to change state
and go high resistance.

The max current that fails to trip all examples of a given type is called: "
I Hold ".

The minimum current that will trip all examples of a given type is called: "
I Trip".

" I Trip " is double " I Hold".

For any given device, the trip current is one number.

Once a device has tripped, the current needed to HOLD it in the new state is
a function of the applied voltage and is generally 5 to 20 times less than
the trip current.

.... Phil

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 5:14 pm
From: Jim Yanik

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:mfs9p6pgv82s5edol45usqnlojh1d8nbca@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:24:40 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
> wrote:
>
>>An infra-red camera might be of use...or wet-touch each cap after its
>>been running a while (without exploding).
>
> I use a cheap IR thermometer with a bit of creative optics to narrow
> the viewing angle, or a thermocouple thermometer. I need my finger
> tips functional for playing piano, organ, synth, etc. What I found
> odd on the GX-520 board with the backwards capacitors, was that they
> did NOT become warm:
><http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/msg/feb66e8acd3d4
>6a4>
> I measured the temperature and the capacitors were the same
> temperature as the surroundings. I would have expected them to get
> warm, but apparently not. My guess(tm) is that the plastic insulator,
> between the foil wraps and the aluminum case, is also a fair thermal
> insulator. While the electrolyte is getting hot and boiling off
> belching gasses, there is little heat transfer to the case.
>
> If you haven't broken it and then fixed it, you don't understand it.
>

They now make "fairly low cost" handheld IR scopes for firefighting use;
I saw one demonstrated on the local TV news,and it was sensitive enough to
see a 3-sec handprint on a wall. It could easily show up hot components on
a PCB.It was the size of a handheld portable spotlight. It might be
worthwhile reaserching,particularly if one has a small production business.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 7:53 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:23:51 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>"Jeff Liebermann"

>> My guess(tm) is that the plastic insulator,
>> between the foil wraps and the aluminum case, is also a fair thermal
>> insulator. While the electrolyte is getting hot and boiling off
>> belching gasses, there is little heat transfer to the case.
>
>** No way - boiling electrolyte would make the whole cap too hot to touch.
>Electro caps are almost like living things - when faced with reverse
>polarity, they try to re-form as reversed caps. There is a limit, of course
>and much heat will be generated if the voltage is more than a few volts.

Ok. I was assuming that the gas necessary to blow the lid off the
capacitor and spew brown goo was accompanied by heating. That seems
to be a bad assumption as the gases can probably be produced without
any heat. Time for a reverse polarity bench test with the proper
instrumentation. (Probably this weekend).

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 8:21 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 19:14:31 -0500, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>They now make "fairly low cost" handheld IR scopes for firefighting use;
>I saw one demonstrated on the local TV news,and it was sensitive enough to
>see a 3-sec handprint on a wall. It could easily show up hot components on
>a PCB.It was the size of a handheld portable spotlight. It might be
>worthwhile reaserching,particularly if one has a small production business.

FLIR makes these:
<http://www.flir.com>
Their lowest cost model is about $1000. Office next door does home
energy assessments and has one of these.
<http://www.flir.com/thermography/americas/us/content/?id=24072>
However, they won't let me borrow it any more after it got trashed by
someone else. While I had it, it was wonderful for finding shorted
power supply traces, overheating components, and CPU cooling problems.
I don't see myself spending $1000 for one in the near future.

However, I have built several IR flying spot scanners, that might
suffice. Basically just a far infrared photo detector chip, a
rotating mirror ripped out of a laser printer or supermarket scanner,
and some optics. I've built several of these over the years, with
assorted problems. All of them worked, but the response time was
awful compared to the various FLIR arrays. Thermal noise was also
bad.
<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.equipment/browse_thread/thread/92c3879a53a8f9f1>

The problem was that the caps really did not get warm. Per comments
by Phil Allison, little heat is not required to produce the gasses
that a bulging the case. I don't think the FLIR camera will show
anything useful.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 5:16 pm
From: Jeff Urban

"they'll
forego the warranty and deal with a disreputable but fast repair
person like me. "

I don't think that should be called disreputable. If you mean
disreputable with the manufacturer, just how reputable are they ? This
is not an automatic toenail polisher, some people actually use tools
to make money. If they need it and you fix it, and they pay you - WHAT
is disreputable about that ?

Know why I don't buy tools from Sears, a reputable compnay ? Well they
used to Xray their handtools and they never broke (almost). That was
fine with me. But they stopped. Now I have been under a car with a
transmission on my chest. What good is a warranty then ? I need the
tool NOW. What's more a coworker and I bought Craftsman drill/drivers.
The triggers would always fail. They weren't covered and we payed out
of pocket for them, AND had to change them ourselves. About the third
or fourth trip that guy asks " What are you doing to this thing ? ".
Smitty answered "Work". The guy says "If I knew you were going to use
it for work I would've sold you the Makita".

My car doesn't run. Now why the hell do you think I got in my car ? I
wanted to go somewhere. I don't care about the friggin million mile
warranty, I only want to go ten miles let's say. But I want to go
there now. If I wanted to get there WHENEVER I wouldn't need a car,
just call a cab, take a bus or a bicycle, maybe even walk. If I wanted
to walk I wouldn't have given you all that damn money.

Get the point ?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 5:48 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeff Urban"
>"Jeff Liebermann"
>
> "they'll
> forego the warranty and deal with a disreputable but fast repair
> person like me. "
>
> I don't think that should be called disreputable. If you mean
> disreputable with the manufacturer, just how reputable are they ?

** Think Jeff L had his tongue firmly in his cheek when he referred to
himself as "disreputable".

Because Jeff L has apparently not sought or been granted "Authorised
Repairer " status for any brands - he might be seen as disreputable by
some people. As with many things, the direct opposite is actually the case.

So called "Authorised Repairers" are under the most odious kinds of contract
which force them to become aligned with the maker's or importer's demands
and whims rather than their own or their customer's natural interests.

Few if any customers understand this difference and falsely imagine they are
still dealing with a normal repairer.

A normal repairer charges for every job, will tell customers what they found
wrong and how to avoid a repeat. They also do their best to avoid returns
under repair warranties - so shonky " patch up " repairs are just not on.
If the item is clearly a lemon, they will gently point that out too.

OTOH contract warranty repairers do not charge, tell the customer nothing
( or else a pack of bull ) and do work that need only last until the maker's
warranty period expires. They will not openly criticise anything sold under
the brand names they are contracted to work on - no matter how awful it is.

IOW, a contracted repairer is at permanently at war with his own customers.

I can hardly imagine any situation more *disreputable*.

.... Phil

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 6:27 pm
From: Jeff Urban

"So called "Authorised Repairers" are under the most odious kinds of
contract "

You can say that again. But again the so called benefits being an
illusion will show sooner or later. The key is understanding the goal.
I am still a serviceman, but I am also a businessman now. I don't put
my name on things, but I am involved. Any ASC would cringe at some of
the things I've done. Though few or none were in the capacity of an
ASC, my loyaly always resided with the customer. That's MY customer,
untill I might need to correspond with a manufacturer, then they are
"our" customer. It can almost be said that to be honest one needs to
be dishonest.

I have realized that the goals of the manufacturer are daimetrically
opposed to those of the servicer. They have always acted in that
fashion because the goal has not changed. The methods now are
overcomplication and planned obsolescense. These are alot harder to
fight, but what else will we do ?

They are getting good, and some make it now by swapping boards. They
are so good that it is getting hard to tell which board to swap. In
the old days you could make money with a bag of 6GH8s, but now to get
the right board you might have to know if the set was built on a
Monday or a Thursday. Change is not for the sake of change, it is for
the sake of currency.

EVERY time their product is repaired, they lose out on a sale. They
have formed conglomerates and cooperations, but don't dare use the
word conspiracy unless you are among those priveledged to define it.
This country is a dumping ground. A DLP sold around Easter fails
around Thanksgiving the same year. Parts are no longer available. The
customer is told by the Attourney General's office that if he pursues
his own claim he is excluded from any possible class action lawsuit.
Who's side are they on ? They are effectively preventing lawsuits
which would be a matter of public record.

I have thought this out stem to stern in my 35 years in the business,
and I think my conclusions sound. Nothing will happen without
legislation. Some places in Europe have product support laws, and
lower prescription prices (let's just not go there right now). But
somehow these companiers can make money there. It's just that they can
make more money here.

Forcing the issue, well it makes no sense. It will happen anyway, TVs
costing two grand are junk in a year ? How long do you think people
are going to put up with that with no secure jobs, and therefore no
stable and sustainable credit ? And even with that, what happens when
they are paying off goods that have been in a dumpster for a year ?

I say let it happen by itself. And that is my considered conclusion. A
few will hang on, and we'll be well better off for it. Don't get mad,
get bad.

Call me irreptutable.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 8:44 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:16:57 -0700 (PDT), Jeff Urban
<jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote:

>"they'll
>forego the warranty and deal with a disreputable but fast repair
>person like me. "
>
>I don't think that should be called disreputable. If you mean
>disreputable with the manufacturer, just how reputable are they ?

From the manufacturers point of view, there are two types of repair
shops. Those that have elected to jump through the hoops and
obstacles of the authorized dealer network, and everyone else. Since
I'm not authorized by any company to do anything, I'm in the latter
category and considered to be de facto incompetent due to the lack of
training that usually comes with being authorized.
<http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>

>This
>is not an automatic toenail polisher, some people actually use tools
>to make money. If they need it and you fix it, and they pay you - WHAT
>is disreputable about that ?

The lack of a certificate from the manufacturer attesting to my
competence. I've never found it really necessary to be authorized,
blessed, or otherwise approved for any manner of repair. When I've
actually tried to become and authorized dealer or repair center, I
usually manage to make a muddle of it.

>Know why I don't buy tools from Sears, a reputable compnay ?

Times have changed. These days, everything is made in China. If you
want quality, look elsewhere but at perhaps 5-10 times the price. I
have my set of Craftsman hand tools from the 1970's, that have never
failed. I don't loan those to anyone. I have my assortment of Home
Depot junk tools, that I'm more than happy to loan to the neighborhood
kids, knowing that they'll get trashed. However, I can buy 5 of those
for the price of one real Proto hand tool.

Incidentally, I use quite a few Craftsman 8" #2 Philips (41296) screw
drivers. I recently bought two from the local Sears store, where I
had to regrind the tip so that it would properly fit a #2 screw head.

>Get the point ?

Nope. You're worrying about the wrong things. The real problem, in
my never humble opinion, is not product quality, but that we're
putting high tech devices in the hands of people with no clue how to
use them, much less how to take care of them. The only way to avoid
the necessary education, while still supplying the absolute cheapest
product, it with a warranty. In short, a warranty is being supplied
in place of a quality product and a consumer education system.

My favorite example is the cell phone. I have a small side business
repairing these and supplying spares and replacements. None of them
are built to be repaired, so that's a challenge. Yet, the condition
of most of the phones I see are so bad, that were it any other
product, I would claim that the owner was intentionally abusing the
device. With an average lifetime of about 18 months for a consumer
dumb phone, the level of quality need not be much above minimal.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 9:39 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeff Liebermann"
" Jeff Urban"
>
>>If they need it and you fix it, and they pay you - WHAT
>>is disreputable about that ?
>
> The lack of a certificate from the manufacturer attesting to my
> competence.

** ROTFL - I doubt there is even one importer or manufacturer in Australia
capable of making that determination with any accuracy. After all, how
would any of them know ?? They are NOT operating repair businesses, have
no understanding of them and generally take no interest in the topic.

Anecdote:

One time, back in the 80s, I worked for a repair business that had
"authorised" service arrangements for several brands of guitar amp -
including Marshall, Acoustic and ELFA.

The Greek lunatic who imported Acoustic into Australia decided that he could
" micro-manage " the servicing of his brand by making up " kits " of spare
parts that all service techs would have to buy to repair various classes of
fault. All one needed to do was tell HIM the fault scenario and he would
nominate the kit that you needed to purchase. Ordering individual parts as
required was simply no longer an option.

He claimed to me on the phone that all the auto importers and makers were
doing the same thing and it was more " efficient ". Soooo, I told him about
the fault in the unit I had on the bench - that it suffered from loud,
very intermittent crackling noises. After a long pause, he said to ship the
unit down to him, in Melbourne, 500 miles away.

The boss and I did no such stupid thing, of course.

Anecdote 2.

A Melbourne based maker of guitar amps ( ELFA) had issues with their latest
models:

1. The quad op-amps ( all RC4136s) in the pre-amp section were from a faulty
batch ( rejects?) with about a 50% failure rate in the first 3 months. The
maker had earmarked all their remaining stock for manufacture and REFUSED to
supply any spares to us for warranty repairs.

2. Some nut case, probably as an after thought, had fitted stereo headphone
sockets to the amps with no series limiting resistors. The left and right
earphone connections were simply linked to the internal amplifier module and
the speaker connected itself when there was no plug in place.

Soooo, soon as anyone plugged a mono jack into the headphone socket - bang
went the Sanken 60 watt amp module inside. Then, soon as the mono plug was
removed, a 40 volt DC rail was linked to the 12 inch speaker and burnt it
out.

The 12 inch speaker was made right here in Sydney and despite the scenario
being non warrantee, the people in Melbourne wanted US to send the 6 kg
wrecks down to them for appraisal before they would agree to supply a new
one.

The boss told them to shove it.

From then on, we sourced all needed parts ourselves ( including speakers)
got Marshall and Fender mains and output transformers re-wound as needed and
saved ourselves and our customers a lot of grief. We did no more warranty
work.

..... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: motherboard RAM failures
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3e25b3ae78058770?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 7:52 pm
From: Smitty Two

In article <oui6p6l2pbc53qa6mbghk2q5vfam21qq2u@4ax.com>,
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

> Are you overclocking the CPU speed?
> What is the speed rating of the DDR3 RAM? It should be PC3-?????

well, I'm not doing anything with the dang computers other than putting
them together. I'm pretty sure the customer isn't overclocking them.

I'll try to rustle up some more specs on the RAM.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Temperature control group?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0de471c409570c55?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 7:56 pm
From: Smitty Two

Would appreciate any suggestions for newsgroups appropriate to discuss
temperature control systems.

(On the off chance that any experts are lurking here, what I'm really
after are suggestions for the *easiest to use* 1/4 DIN, PID ramp/soak
units with PC software to facilitate writing and storing ramp/soak
routines.)

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 31 2011 11:00 pm
From: jialiujeans

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