sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* WHAT DOES ISLAM SAY ABOUT TERRORISM???????????? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/adad369b51104aaa?hl=en
* beware of the updates you install - 22 messages, 11 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2b7267e3abedc4ff?hl=en
* Help controlling a capstan motor salvaged from a panasonic VCR - 2 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3ce4bafc86e038ec?hl=en
* F740LC replacement - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0e7b92ccbd95e04b?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: WHAT DOES ISLAM SAY ABOUT TERRORISM????????????
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/adad369b51104aaa?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 3:38 pm
From: John-Del
Hey mad bomber, go away. No one here is interested in your message of hate.
On Saturday, November 9, 2013 3:03:43 PM UTC-5, BV BV wrote:
Hateful drivel deleted.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: beware of the updates you install
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2b7267e3abedc4ff?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 4:53 pm
From: "Trevor"
"dave" <ricketzz@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gu6dnbycf7auh-DPnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> How do you justify paying $200 for a computer operating system that does
> nothing but send you places that ask for money?
Well I've never paid $200 for Windows, and I use a firewall. *IF* all the
software I choose to use was available for Linux, AND all the drivers were
available for the hardware I choose to use, I'd happily run Linux on my
computers. Been waiting for a couple of decades for that to happen, and not
holding my breathe though.
> The Windows world is like North Las Vegas. It is crass, commercial and
> everyone has to get their hands dirty. I have a netbook with XP that I
> need to talk to my iPod.
The Apple ipod itunes crap is the only problem, Windows works well with
every other MP3 player that I've ever used. But so does Linux for that
matter.
Trevor.
== 2 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 5:04 pm
From: "Trevor"
"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:l5ma0e$cgp$1@panix2.panix.com...
> I like commercial operating systems too, and that is why I am so upset
> that Microsoft and their financing model has driven most other commercial
> operating systems out of the market.
>
> There's Solaris. And there are some commercial Linux releases like Red
> Hat and SuSE that give you commercial-grade support even if they don't
> give you commercial-grade product up-front. And there's _sort of_ VMS
> for a little while anyway.
>
> But since the demise of BeOS there are NO realtime operating systems
> intended for desktop use. There are some linux versions with
> "soft-realtime" extensions and there are a lot of embedded system
> RTOSes and there's sort of QNX if you can get them to deign to speak
> to a mere customer.
>
> But I really would like to see a purpose-built DAW again, on a platform
> designed for the job.
In the days when computing power was far more limited than it is now, it was
a neccessity. But since I've had no problems doing all my multi-track audio
work on generic computers for the last decade, I'm not in a hurry to go down
the expensive, locked in, hope they might give you what you want/need
someday path ever again. Because so many others agree is why those systems
no longer sell.
Some people might want a brand new Nagra tape machine too, but not enough to
make it a commercially viable business plan it seems.
Trevor.
== 3 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 5:15 pm
From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
In article <l5pacr$gpb$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Trevor <trevor@home.net> wrote:
>
>In the days when computing power was far more limited than it is now, it was
>a neccessity. But since I've had no problems doing all my multi-track audio
>work on generic computers for the last decade, I'm not in a hurry to go down
>the expensive, locked in, hope they might give you what you want/need
>someday path ever again. Because so many others agree is why those systems
>no longer sell.
The "throw more CPU power at it and hope it works" philosophy works fine
as long as there's plenty of CPU power for what you want to do. But how
long is that going to continue?
>Some people might want a brand new Nagra tape machine too, but not enough to
>make it a commercially viable business plan it seems.
Dunno, Nagra seems to be doing pretty well right now. They don't sell a lot
of analogue machines, but they're not out of the catalogue yet.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
== 4 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 5:19 pm
From: "Trevor"
"geoff" <geoff@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:yMWdnUosR6msd-LPnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> I find it amusing that some peoples' OSs appear to give them stiffies.
Yeh, I find it amusing too, just like those who get stiffies whenever Apple
comes out with an expensive new product. :-)
> Unless the OS is actually a (real, not just perceived or religous)
> problem, the whole point is the APPLICATIONS !
Dead right. I'm not only amused but annoyed they find it necessary to mess
with the desktop interface every time they bring out an update, when all I
want is the fastest way to get to the applications (with support for all the
new hardware technolgy since the last release).
Windows 8 sure aint it IMO :-(
Trevor.
== 5 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 5:26 pm
From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> wrote:
>>
>> There's Solaris.
>
>I was forced back onto that recently. Quite unpleasant. The Linuces are
>much more advanced. They were actually going to Linux as the solution
>to that.
See, I would consider Solaris a lot more advanced, in terms of actually having
a solid kernel that has been well-debugged and is stable. Turn off the stupid
java gui and all that crap and you have a very solid OS that does not require
constant patching.
My complaint with Linux is mostly that the Linux community is constantly
changing things, and they often don't change them for the better or the
worse, they just change them for the sake of changing them. This seems like
misplaced effort on the part of developers, but what bothers me is that now
I have to change my stuff unnecessarily.
I would much prefer a system that was actually designed, where someone sat
down and made a decision about what the thing was supposed to do and then
built it to do that and then removed bugs rather than added features.
But... when systems are built like that, they aren't systems for everything,
they are systems for the one thing the designer decided it was supposed to
do. And if that's not what you want... that should be fine because there
should be plenty of other systems out there to do other things.
It's the lack of those other systems that I am bemoaning.
>> And there are some commercial Linux releases like Red
>> Hat and SuSE that give you commercial-grade support even if they don't
>> give you commercial-grade product up-front.
>
>Dunno what's not "commercial grade" about it; it's fine. The general
>package management problem in Linux still persists.
Every week someone finds some security vulnerability that needs to get
patched. Every week someone makes some unneeded change. If there is a
problem with a third-party device driver I can't call up DEC support
on a three-way call and have the DEC developers working with the third-party
guys to fix the problem.
>> But since the demise of BeOS there are NO realtime operating systems
>> intended for desktop use.
>
>Hm. Well, I don't have much trouble with that. For "realtime", we
>just write drivers. It's not a desktop, but it could be. All
>you really need is one free hardware timer.
No, you don't just write drivers. If you want an actual hard realtime
system you either need to wrest control away from the OS and do everything
as one uninterruptable process, or you need an operating system with a
scheduler that assigns timeslices to processes based upon how much time
those processes need to make deadline. When you make a call to the operating
system, say open(), one of the parameters is how long you have to wait for
the OS to do the job, and the kernel will prioritize the call appropriately
to make sure all those calls return in time.
The alternative is just to throw CPU at the problem and hope everybody can
meet deadline. This is called "soft realtime" and sometimes it works and
sometimes it doesn't. What is evil is that sometimes it's not always obvious
at the time that data is being lost because there is no way for the kernel
or the application to flag that it's missing deadlines in many cases.
>The various Atmel sized processors really kind of make a realtime
>desktop moot. There's stuff like the Raspberry PI and cubieBoard
>that can do all that as well.
Sure, but can I run a DAW on it?
>It might be prohibitive, but I think you could build a cubieBoard
>linux that interfaces to one/any of the USB2.0 interfaces using ALSA .
>It has HDMI, so there's your display solution. Just NFS mount a remote
>desktop/server/NAS.
>
>If the USB2.0 interface has MIDI, you have a control surface solution.
Could be, but I'm still holding out for hard-realtime.
>> But I really would like to see a purpose-built DAW again, on a platform
>> designed for the job.
>
>There are curious variations on the theme, like standalone VST hosts.
Which is a very, very cool idea. I just saw one being used for PA
applications not long ago!
>I kinda don't see the point of it. You can
>run any of the COTS DAW packages on a stripped-down machine.
>
>And isn't Otari still shipping RADAR?
They are, which is really BeOS inside, secretly.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
== 6 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 5:31 pm
From: "Trevor"
"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:l5pb3b$lep$1@panix2.panix.com...
>>In the days when computing power was far more limited than it is now, it
>>was
>>a neccessity. But since I've had no problems doing all my multi-track
>>audio
>>work on generic computers for the last decade, I'm not in a hurry to go
>>down
>>the expensive, locked in, hope they might give you what you want/need
>>someday path ever again. Because so many others agree is why those systems
>>no longer sell.
>
> The "throw more CPU power at it and hope it works" philosophy works fine
> as long as there's plenty of CPU power for what you want to do. But how
> long is that going to continue?
Until the next "dark ages". Technology usually moves forward not backwards.
>>Some people might want a brand new Nagra tape machine too, but not enough
>>to
>>make it a commercially viable business plan it seems.
>
> Dunno, Nagra seems to be doing pretty well right now. They don't sell a
> lot
> of analogue machines
Exactly, I specifically said "*tape* machine". Where are the new models?
Can't justify the development costs would be my guess.
Trevor.
== 7 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 9:06 pm
From: "geoff"
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <l5pacr$gpb$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Trevor <trevor@home.net>
> wrote:
>>
>> In the days when computing power was far more limited than it is
>> now, it was a neccessity. But since I've had no problems doing all
>> my multi-track audio work on generic computers for the last decade,
>> I'm not in a hurry to go down the expensive, locked in, hope they
>> might give you what you want/need someday path ever again. Because
>> so many others agree is why those systems no longer sell.
>
> The "throw more CPU power at it and hope it works" philosophy works
> fine
> as long as there's plenty of CPU power for what you want to do. But
> how long is that going to continue?
Seems to be increasing true wrt audio, given the continued rate of increase
in CPU horsepower and RAM size versus software requirement on it. Even
CPU-hungry plugins don't seem to be the problem they used to be.
This applies to everything I've ever done, except for video-rendering which
is and probably always will be ever-expanding in the resource demand dept
.....
geoff
== 8 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 9:07 pm
From: "geoff"
Trevor wrote:
> "geoff" <geoff@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:yMWdnUosR6msd-LPnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> I find it amusing that some peoples' OSs appear to give them
>> stiffies.
>
> Yeh, I find it amusing too, just like those who get stiffies whenever
> Apple comes out with an expensive new product. :-)
>
>
>> Unless the OS is actually a (real, not just perceived or religous)
>> problem, the whole point is the APPLICATIONS !
>
> Dead right. I'm not only amused but annoyed they find it necessary to
> mess with the desktop interface every time they bring out an update,
> when all I want is the fastest way to get to the applications (with
> support for all the new hardware technolgy since the last release).
> Windows 8 sure aint it IMO :-(
Fortunately it's mostly easily-fixable for free.
www.classicshell.net .
geoff
== 9 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 9:10 pm
From: "geoff"
Scott Dorsey wrote:
> I would much prefer a system that was actually designed, where
> someone sat down and made a decision about what the thing was
> supposed to do and then built it to do that and then removed bugs
> rather than added features.
Chicken-egg thing really. Features need to be added because of commercial
really - other products may sport such features (sometimes even good and
truely useful ones !) , and 'whatever' OS needs to keep it's user base to
survive.
geoff
== 10 of 22 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 10 2013 9:34 pm
From: Les Cargill
Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> There's Solaris.
>>
>> I was forced back onto that recently. Quite unpleasant. The Linuces are
>> much more advanced. They were actually going to Linux as the solution
>> to that.
>
> See, I would consider Solaris a lot more advanced, in terms of actually having
> a solid kernel that has been well-debugged and is stable. Turn off the stupid
> java gui and all that crap and you have a very solid OS that does not require
> constant patching.
>
It is solid.
> My complaint with Linux is mostly that the Linux community is constantly
> changing things, and they often don't change them for the better or the
> worse, they just change them for the sake of changing them. This seems like
> misplaced effort on the part of developers, but what bothers me is that now
> I have to change my stuff unnecessarily.
>
Can't argue there.
> I would much prefer a system that was actually designed, where someone sat
> down and made a decision about what the thing was supposed to do and then
> built it to do that and then removed bugs rather than added features.
>
> But... when systems are built like that, they aren't systems for everything,
> they are systems for the one thing the designer decided it was supposed to
> do. And if that's not what you want... that should be fine because there
> should be plenty of other systems out there to do other things.
>
> It's the lack of those other systems that I am bemoaning.
>
The general ... Leviathan nature of mass market computing means people
will adapt the general to the specific, because it costs much less than
designing for specific from the git-go.
And frankly, it's not something I'd consider a very real problem at
this writing. I can run a DAW in a VM at times ( because the VM is 32
bit ) and nary a glitch.
>>> And there are some commercial Linux releases like Red
>>> Hat and SuSE that give you commercial-grade support even if they don't
>>> give you commercial-grade product up-front.
>>
>> Dunno what's not "commercial grade" about it; it's fine. The general
>> package management problem in Linux still persists.
>
> Every week someone finds some security vulnerability that needs to get
> patched. Every week someone makes some unneeded change. If there is a
> problem with a third-party device driver I can't call up DEC support
> on a three-way call and have the DEC developers working with the third-party
> guys to fix the problem.
>
Well, you're not really a customer, you see...
>>> But since the demise of BeOS there are NO realtime operating systems
>>> intended for desktop use.
>>
>> Hm. Well, I don't have much trouble with that. For "realtime", we
>> just write drivers. It's not a desktop, but it could be. All
>> you really need is one free hardware timer.
>
> No, you don't just write drivers. If you want an actual hard realtime
> system you either need to wrest control away from the OS and do everything
> as one uninterruptable process, or you need an operating system with a
> scheduler that assigns timeslices to processes based upon how much time
> those processes need to make deadline. When you make a call to the operating
> system, say open(), one of the parameters is how long you have to wait for
> the OS to do the job, and the kernel will prioritize the call appropriately
> to make sure all those calls return in time.
>
I am quite familiar with the distinction. I respectfully submit that
... one can build "hard realtime" systems in the manner I have
suggested.
> The alternative is just to throw CPU at the problem and hope everybody can
> meet deadline. This is called "soft realtime" and sometimes it works and
> sometimes it doesn't. What is evil is that sometimes it's not always obvious
> at the time that data is being lost because there is no way for the kernel
> or the application to flag that it's missing deadlines in many cases.
>
There are perfectly good microsecond-resolution ( or better )
free running timers for measuring deadlines. time.h stuff...
>> The various Atmel sized processors really kind of make a realtime
>> desktop moot. There's stuff like the Raspberry PI and cubieBoard
>> that can do all that as well.
>
> Sure, but can I run a DAW on it?
>
I don't know. I don't imagine so until ALSA gets ported
to one. Then it would be a lot like a Linux machine.
>> It might be prohibitive, but I think you could build a cubieBoard
>> linux that interfaces to one/any of the USB2.0 interfaces using ALSA .
>> It has HDMI, so there's your display solution. Just NFS mount a remote
>> desktop/server/NAS.
>>
>> If the USB2.0 interface has MIDI, you have a control surface solution.
>
> Could be, but I'm still holding out for hard-realtime.
>
>>> But I really would like to see a purpose-built DAW again, on a platform
>>> designed for the job.
>>
>> There are curious variations on the theme, like standalone VST hosts.
>
> Which is a very, very cool idea. I just saw one being used for PA
> applications not long ago!
>
Yeah, maybe that'll grow into what you want.
>> I kinda don't see the point of it. You can
>> run any of the COTS DAW packages on a stripped-down machine.
>>
>> And isn't Otari still shipping RADAR?
>
> They are, which is really BeOS inside, secretly.
> --scott
>
>
--
Les Cargill
== 11 of 22 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 3:29 pm
From: Jay Hennigan
On 11/7/13 2:30 PM, sctvguy1 wrote:
> The only people who seem to love Windows, are techs who make money
> "fixing" problems and re-installing everything when it gets infected.
With apologies to Edgar Allen Poe...
Once upon a Tuesday dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
Installing the same version of Windows once more.
While I cursed the constant crashing, I made a fist and started bashing,
Started bashing the computer case and CD-ROM drive door.
"Piece of crap," I muttered, bashing the CD-ROM drive door,
"I will take this crap no more!"
Distinctly I do remember, when I bought my PC in December,
The marketing man said this software would crash no more.
Eagerly I wished to borrow a tool to inflict pain and sorrow
So that one day, perhaps tomorrow, I could go to my computer store
For the chance to make the salesman sell this crap no more.
Only this and nothing more.
So after wasting countless hours, I unplugged the beige mini-tower.
My day was looking very tragic like the old poetry of gothic lore,
But suddenly there came a tapping, rhymthic like the beats of rapping.
Actually, it sounded like flippers flapping, flapping at my apartment door.
"That is very odd," I muttered, "the time is nearly half past four,
Who is knocking on my door?"
The door was opened but it only revealed a penguin standing quite lonely,
Standing with a bag of CD-ROMs on the stoop before my apartment door.
I thought at first it was a delusion, for I was wrought with great confusion
Over the presence of a flightless Antarctic bird at my apartment door.
So I stood there, looking quite the fool, with my jaw down to the floor.
Then the bird said, "Pay no more!"
I thought to call the SPCA ... perhaps it escaped the zoo today.
But instead I brought the talking Aptenodytes forsteri inside my door.
He looked around, he looked at me ... and then he waddled to my PC.
I followed fast and I did see him place his disc in my drive door.
His program booted and began to install software I'd never seen before,
Then the bird said, "Pay No More!"
He brought me LINUX to install, said it rarely crashed at all.
Then he showed me some books while the software installed some more.
The interface, it looked like UNIX ... but 'twas much cheaper than QNX.
In fact, the code was open, so the source of bugs was hidden no more
It made wonder about the penguin's disc, behind my CD drive door ...
And why the bird said, "Pay No More."
So I tried this new installation, at first with fear and trepidation,
But soon I found it more stable than the OS I used before.
The files were in different places, and I put Linux through its paces
And very rarely made odd faces ... it didn't crash like Windows did before.
For this fat penguin made me see a way to use my computer as never before.
Then the bird said, "Pay No More!"
So once upon a morning sunny, I installed Linux for no money,
With the CD-ROM brought by a penguin to my apartment door.
After cursing the old installation, I reduced my overall frustration
And with a bit of determination I removed the software I used before.
Now I read Linux books and Web sites to use my free operating system more.
Quoth the penguin, "Pay No More."
== 12 of 22 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 4:05 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"
I've been using Windows since 3.0. That version tended to crash for no obvious
reason. I've not had that problem with any later version.
Around 2004, "something" went wrong with my Windows 2000 installation. It
would boot, but its behavior was screwy. (This might have been due to a
malware attack, but I don't know for sure.) I was obliged to reinstall it, and
had no problems for the next eight years.
When people say that Windows is crash-prone, and/or often requires
reinstallation, I have to wonder what's going on. I've worked many jobs at
Microsoft, and have never seen this. I can only assume it's due to some sort
of user error, or badly written drivers.
== 13 of 22 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 6:02 pm
From: sctvguy1
On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:05:27 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> I've been using Windows since 3.0. That version tended to crash for no
> obvious reason. I've not had that problem with any later version.
>
> Around 2004, "something" went wrong with my Windows 2000 installation.
> It would boot, but its behavior was screwy. (This might have been due to
> a malware attack, but I don't know for sure.) I was obliged to reinstall
> it, and had no problems for the next eight years.
>
> When people say that Windows is crash-prone, and/or often requires
> reinstallation, I have to wonder what's going on. I've worked many jobs
> at Microsoft, and have never seen this. I can only assume it's due to
> some sort of user error, or badly written drivers.
Were you working there when Bill Gates was using OS/2 on his own desktop?
== 14 of 22 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 6:26 pm
From: Michael Terrell
On Monday, November 11, 2013 6:29:05 PM UTC-5, Jay Hennigan wrote:
> On 11/7/13 2:30 PM, sctvguy1 wrote:
>
> With apologies to Edgar Allen Poe...
YAWN.............
== 15 of 22 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 10:27 pm
From: "Trevor"
"geoff" <geoff@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:gZWdnTu8m-mm-B3PnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Trevor wrote:
>> "geoff" <geoff@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
>> news:yMWdnUosR6msd-LPnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> I find it amusing that some peoples' OSs appear to give them
>>> stiffies.
>>
>> Yeh, I find it amusing too, just like those who get stiffies whenever
>> Apple comes out with an expensive new product. :-)
>>
>>> Unless the OS is actually a (real, not just perceived or religous)
>>> problem, the whole point is the APPLICATIONS !
>>
>> Dead right. I'm not only amused but annoyed they find it necessary to
>> mess with the desktop interface every time they bring out an update,
>> when all I want is the fastest way to get to the applications (with
>> support for all the new hardware technolgy since the last release).
>> Windows 8 sure aint it IMO :-(
>
> Fortunately it's mostly easily-fixable for free.
>
> www.classicshell.net .
Yes, not from MS of course, even the Win 8.1 update is pathetic, and Classic
shell is just a patch for a problem that should never have existed IMO. Give
touchscreen users the option by all means, but no need to remove what
already works for everybody else.
Trevor.
== 16 of 22 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 10:40 pm
From: "Trevor"
"Jay Hennigan" <jay@west.net> wrote in message
news:ZOSdnTBXTvDf9RzPnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@netlojix.com...
> With apologies to Edgar Allen Poe...
>
> Once upon a Tuesday dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary,
> Installing the same version of Windows once more.
> While I cursed the constant crashing, I made a fist and started bashing,
> Started bashing the computer case and CD-ROM drive door.
> "Piece of crap," I muttered, bashing the CD-ROM drive door,
> "I will take this crap no more!"
>
> Distinctly I do remember, when I bought my PC in December,
> The marketing man said this software would crash no more.
> Eagerly I wished to borrow a tool to inflict pain and sorrow
> So that one day, perhaps tomorrow, I could go to my computer store
> For the chance to make the salesman sell this crap no more.
> Only this and nothing more.
>
> So after wasting countless hours, I unplugged the beige mini-tower.
> My day was looking very tragic like the old poetry of gothic lore,
> But suddenly there came a tapping, rhymthic like the beats of rapping.
> Actually, it sounded like flippers flapping, flapping at my apartment
> door.
> "That is very odd," I muttered, "the time is nearly half past four,
> Who is knocking on my door?"
>
> The door was opened but it only revealed a penguin standing quite lonely,
> Standing with a bag of CD-ROMs on the stoop before my apartment door.
> I thought at first it was a delusion, for I was wrought with great
> confusion
> Over the presence of a flightless Antarctic bird at my apartment door.
> So I stood there, looking quite the fool, with my jaw down to the floor.
> Then the bird said, "Pay no more!"
>
> I thought to call the SPCA ... perhaps it escaped the zoo today.
> But instead I brought the talking Aptenodytes forsteri inside my door.
> He looked around, he looked at me ... and then he waddled to my PC.
> I followed fast and I did see him place his disc in my drive door.
> His program booted and began to install software I'd never seen before,
> Then the bird said, "Pay No More!"
>
> He brought me LINUX to install, said it rarely crashed at all.
> Then he showed me some books while the software installed some more.
> The interface, it looked like UNIX ... but 'twas much cheaper than QNX.
> In fact, the code was open, so the source of bugs was hidden no more
> It made wonder about the penguin's disc, behind my CD drive door ...
> And why the bird said, "Pay No More."
>
> So I tried this new installation, at first with fear and trepidation,
> But soon I found it more stable than the OS I used before.
> The files were in different places, and I put Linux through its paces
> And very rarely made odd faces ... it didn't crash like Windows did
> before.
> For this fat penguin made me see a way to use my computer as never before.
> Then the bird said, "Pay No More!"
>
> So once upon a morning sunny, I installed Linux for no money,
> With the CD-ROM brought by a penguin to my apartment door.
> After cursing the old installation, I reduced my overall frustration
> And with a bit of determination I removed the software I used before.
> Now I read Linux books and Web sites to use my free operating system more.
> Quoth the penguin, "Pay No More."
And use all your Windows software no more :-(
Linux is great if you are happy with the available software, or all you want
to do is surf the net. However I'm amazed that people who can successfully
install and run Linux can't keep a Windows box running.
Trevor.
== 17 of 22 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 12 2013 3:07 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"
"sctvguy1" wrote in message news:l5s281$d2p$3@dont-email.me...
On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:05:27 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> When people say that Windows is crash-prone, and/or often
>> requires reinstallation, I have to wonder what's going on. I've
>> worked many jobs at Microsoft, and have never seen this. I can
>> only assume it's due to some sort of user error, or badly written
>> drivers.
> Were you working there when Bill Gates was using OS/2 on his
> own desktop?
I was there during the period of OS/2's brief popularity.
Was OS/2 particularly crash prone, or are you referring to the fact that it
needed the Presentation Manager for a graphic interface?
== 18 of 22 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 12 2013 3:09 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"
PS: You didn't respond to my blueberry pancakes jokes. I was hurt.
== 19 of 22 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 12 2013 3:14 am
From: John Williamson
William Sommerwerck wrote:
> "sctvguy1" wrote in message news:l5s281$d2p$3@dont-email.me...
> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:05:27 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
>> Were you working there when Bill Gates was using OS/2 on his
>> own desktop?
>
> I was there during the period of OS/2's brief popularity.
>
> Was OS/2 particularly crash prone, or are you referring to the fact that
> it needed the Presentation Manager for a graphic interface?
>
>
I took it as more of a suggestion that the owner and creator of
Microsoft didn't want to use a Microsft OS on his own machine.
Of course, it could just have been research to find out just how bad
OS/2 was....
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
== 20 of 22 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 12 2013 5:59 am
From: kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
In article <l5sidu$dan$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Trevor <trevor@home.net> wrote:
>
>And use all your Windows software no more :-(
>Linux is great if you are happy with the available software, or all you want
>to do is surf the net. However I'm amazed that people who can successfully
>install and run Linux can't keep a Windows box running.
They are philosophically very different to run and debug problems on. With
Linux, you can readily look inside and see what is going on, and so step by
step diagnosis is possible (and in fact is essential). On the other hand,
with Windows systems you can't really see what is going on inside the box
at all and if you attempt conventional step by step diagnosis you will only
get frustrated and angry. Windows diagnosis is basically done with a matrix
of problems and solutions... and the good news is that there are enough
Windows systems that a google search on a given problem will usually find you
a solution. That doesn't mean the person with the solution has any more idea
what is going on inside the box than you do, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
== 21 of 22 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 12 2013 6:18 am
From: Leif Neland
Scott Dorsey tastede følgende:
> In article <l5sidu$dan$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Trevor <trevor@home.net> wrote:
>>
> ... Windows diagnosis is basically done with a matrix
> of problems and solutions... and the good news is that there are enough
> Windows systems that a google search on a given problem will usually find you
> a solution.
Or often umpteen people with the same problem and no solution :-(
Leif
--
Husk kørelys bagpå, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
== 22 of 22 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 12 2013 6:24 am
From: dave
On 11/08/2013 10:56 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> dave <dave@dave.dave> wrote:
>>
>> BTW You can occasionally find a Nagra IV-S for under a hundred bucks
>> here nowadays.
>
> I'll take all you can get at that price. Prices on those machines are
> actually rising... they hit rock bottom a few years ago but they now seem
> to be getting snapped up by collectors. I have been getting a lot of repair
> work from guys buying the things who don't know what they are buying.
> --scott
>
I'll check. We had a pile of them at the last place I worked. We
replaced them with Fostex time code digital recorders and ProTools type
DAWs on laptops.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Help controlling a capstan motor salvaged from a panasonic VCR
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3ce4bafc86e038ec?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 6:04 pm
From: carlynorama
Hi there,
I am trying to appropriate the motors out of an old vcr.
I have a VEM0800 motor attached to a board with a BA6868FM chip on it.
The board is labeled VEP02579A, other markings on the motor include "EP23AA" and "403201"
This is the only data sheet I have for the chip is:
http://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/Rohm%20PDFs/BA6868FM.pdf
Before I spend too much more time on this I was wondering if anyone knows where I can get a pinout for the 8 pin header on the board?
The assembly was given to me already removed from the vcr so I can't trace it back that way. If no one knows I'll go through checking continuity pin by pin, but I'm trying to avoid that.
Thanks,
-c
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 11 2013 10:28 pm
From: jurb6006@gmail.com
?Nothing solid yet, but I would recommend getting a print for one of the VCRs that use this motor.
ther eis one here : https://www.partstore.com/CompatibleModels.aspx?MfgName=Matsushita&BrandName=Panasonic&PartNumber=VEM0800&ItemCondition=New&page=3
VCRs control these motors quite well and reverse them and all that so getting the print for any of the VCRs tyhat use that motor should give you the methoid of how to control it.
You could do it yourself from scratch if you want to reinvent the wheel, but do you ?
If so and you got good reason, say so. you could concievabvly connect to the motor board and discard their inadequate chip. But why ? I know they had a way to report the phase back to the servo chip but never looked into it. they did this for slow tracking. Rmeember slow trackng ?
Anyway, get the print for any of those machines and you should be able to do what you want to do. If not, say so...
==============================================================================
TOPIC: F740LC replacement
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0e7b92ccbd95e04b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 12 2013 5:45 am
From: test
Hi!
Anyone knows a valid replacement for a F740LC?
I found some spares with ebay in Germany, but it seems hard to find
elsewhere...
Thanks!
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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair - 26 new messages in 7 topics - digest
sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Luxmeter problem - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3131ff981cfbd416?hl=en
* Black Glue Peril - 16 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e2b7af1ebdef2435?hl=en
* What to do when a key stops working on a Laptop keyboard? - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bbd9adad1ab1364d?hl=en
* alliance antenna rotor - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/60e644314adaefab?hl=en
* IC Identification Help (SMD Marking 651+, or maybe G51+), SOT-23-6 - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/03b5c5812be29ee3?hl=en
* Converting a 200W discharge lamp video projector to LED - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c84c8e901a969276?hl=en
* Dual Channel Software Oscilloscope Ver 2.0 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fccc843f2ff99948?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Luxmeter problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3131ff981cfbd416?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 9:49 am
From: ggherold@gmail.com
On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:16:14 PM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:
> the BPW21 datasheet shows log-log plot of short circuit current v lux
>
> over 6 decades as linear, so something about short circuit compared with
>
> actual use?
I assume it's a photodiode. Then short circiut current is very linear. You'd have to share the circuit. But if they just use a simple resistor across the diode to convert I to V, then it becomes non-linear as the diode becomes forward biased and some of the current goes back though the diode and not the resistor.
George H.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 10:44 am
From: N_Cook
On 03/10/2013 17:49, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:16:14 PM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:
>> the BPW21 datasheet shows log-log plot of short circuit current v lux
>>
>> over 6 decades as linear, so something about short circuit compared with
>>
>> actual use?
>
> I assume it's a photodiode. Then short circiut current is very linear. You'd have to share the circuit. But if they just use a simple resistor across the diode to convert I to V, then it becomes non-linear as the diode becomes forward biased and some of the current goes back though the diode and not the resistor.
>
> George H.
>
Sounds plausible.
No known schematic but I'll dig out the data for the main chip and work
out what applies to it and lux measurement, which should show which pair
of presets and which is zero and which is range.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 11:58 pm
From: N_Cook
The photodiode is in series with 18K and one end of those 2 is connected
to an opamp input and the other end to another opamp input. So cannot be
fully linear. I.m reasonably confident which preset relates to which
function.
Overal zero and overall scaling, then one for scaling the temperature
function and one for the lux. The extra CMOS for OR driving the always
on 0 digit and the switching function and maybe auto-off function. As it
stands with zero lux it reads -80 lux so something obviously adrift.
Adjusting light levels up from zero , then from -20 to probably +20 it
auto "zeros" to 0. The temperature scale is easy to check calibration,
which leaves the lux scale.
Looks as though the nearest i will get to a reference light source is
taking the average of a number of 60watt mains tungsten lamps, but then
www sources say that is betwwen 700 lumens to 900 lumens, mostly about
840 to 870, and monitor 1 metre away. Accept that a reading of 20,000 is
nearer 100,000 lux and produce a corelation chart via some unknown but
constant value of bright source and 1,2,3, and 4 stop (1/2 to 1/16)
neutral density filters over the sensor .
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black Glue Peril
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e2b7af1ebdef2435?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 4:33 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
** Hi to all,
the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead - with a
KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm next
to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in areas
that have no heat.
Could the black colouring be carbon ??
... Phil
== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 3:50 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bb6d6fFhbqrU1@mid.individual.net...
> ** Hi to all,
>
> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>
> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead - with
> a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>
> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>
> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm next
> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>
> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
> areas that have no heat.
>
> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>
>
> ... Phil
>
>
I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and Tannoy
powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
Could well contain carbon.
http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
This stuff get it off quite nicely.
http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
(Arfa Daly recommended this product a while ago on this forum, I've tried
it, and it does work well)
Cheers,
Gareth.
== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 4:01 am
From: "Phil Allison"
"Gareth Magennis"
> "Phil Allison"
>
>> ** Hi to all,
>>
>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>
>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>> with a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs
>> are liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>
>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>
>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
>> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm
>> next to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>>
>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>> areas that have no heat.
>>
>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>
>
>
> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
** Very likely.
> Could well contain carbon.
> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
** Wot a bad idea.
>
> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>
** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with *ridiculous*
amounts of force.
I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
of a small shifting spanner.
Stone mason's stuff.
... Phil
== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 4:30 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bb7lgpFp1edU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Gareth Magennis"
>> "Phil Allison"
>>
>>> ** Hi to all,
>>>
>>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>>
>>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>>> with a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs
>>> are liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>>
>>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>>
>>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the
>>> way you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a
>>> 2.2kohm next to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs
>>> replacing.
>>>
>>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>>> areas that have no heat.
>>>
>>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>>
>>
>>
>> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
>> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
>> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
>
> ** Very likely.
>
>
>> Could well contain carbon.
>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>
>
> ** Wot a bad idea.
>
>>
>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>
>
> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>
> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>
> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
> of a small shifting spanner.
>
> Stone mason's stuff.
>
>
>
> ... Phil
>
That sounds more like an epoxy, maybe not the same stuff?
But why would it need to be black anyway? Just makes it more expensive than
uncloloured adhesive.
The flux cleaner I think just softens it, so it doesn't adhere as strongly
to the PCB. Arfa might be able to confirm or deny this.
Incidentally, I recently made my own black speaker glue (for fixing dust
caps) using Evostick and laser printer toner. Works a treat, and a damn
sight cheaper than this tiny tube of what is probably the same stuff.
http://www.saveltd.co.uk/jbl-professional-moyen-rs-3087-speaker-driver-cement-glue-4125-p.asp
Gareth.
== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 5:14 am
From: "Phil Allison"
"Gareth Magennis"
> "Phil Allison"
>>
>>> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
>>> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
>>> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
>>
>> ** Very likely.
>
>>>
>>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>>
>>
>> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>>
>> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
>> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>>
>> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back
>> end of a small shifting spanner.
>>
>> Stone mason's stuff.
>>
>
> That sounds more like an epoxy, maybe not the same stuff?
** It's the same horrible stuff - just black.
Time and a bit of heat turns it into rock.
> But why would it need to be black anyway?
** IEC inlets, rocker switches, XLRs and metal back panels are commonly
black.
So it matches, when used to achieve an air seal around them, like in this
case.
... Phil
== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 5:30 am
From: N_Cook
On 04/10/2013 12:30, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bb7lgpFp1edU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Gareth Magennis"
>>> "Phil Allison"
>>>
>>>> ** Hi to all,
>>>>
>>>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>>>
>>>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>>>> with a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs
>>>> are liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>>>
>>>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>>>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>>>
>>>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the
>>>> way you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a
>>>> 2.2kohm next to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs
>>>> replacing.
>>>>
>>>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>>>> areas that have no heat.
>>>>
>>>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
>>> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
>>> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
>>
>> ** Very likely.
>>
>>
>>> Could well contain carbon.
>>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>>
>>
>> ** Wot a bad idea.
>>
>>>
>>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>>
>>
>> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>>
>> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
>> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>>
>> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
>> of a small shifting spanner.
>>
>> Stone mason's stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> ... Phil
>>
>
>
> That sounds more like an epoxy, maybe not the same stuff?
> But why would it need to be black anyway? Just makes it more expensive than
> uncloloured adhesive.
>
> The flux cleaner I think just softens it, so it doesn't adhere as strongly
> to the PCB. Arfa might be able to confirm or deny this.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, I recently made my own black speaker glue (for fixing dust
> caps) using Evostick and laser printer toner. Works a treat, and a damn
> sight cheaper than this tiny tube of what is probably the same stuff.
>
> http://www.saveltd.co.uk/jbl-professional-moyen-rs-3087-speaker-driver-cement-glue-4125-p.asp
>
>
>
>
> Gareth.
>
>
So that makes it 3 different types that cause such problems.
The yellow glue stuff
The white softish conformal coating material that breaks down leaving a
distinctive oily film, plus corrossion/conduction problems
This black stuff now
Does no manufacturer do accelerated aging of these sorts of materials
before selling them
== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 8:04 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
> Could well contain carbon.
> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>
From that site:
Flocculation
Following dispersion small particles of carbon black have a tendency to
flocculate. To minimize this tendency it is necessary to take utmost care
when diluting paints. Only small calculated additions should be made with
thorough homogenization between additions
So it could be that over time, whatever is used as a pigment "flocculates"
and forms solid flakes or a layer of conductivity on the PCB.
(Being as the pigment particles are not dissolved in a medium as a solution,
but are merely mixed with it)
Gareth.
== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 8:08 am
From: dave
On 10/03/2013 04:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> ** Hi to all,
>
> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>
> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead - with a
> KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>
> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>
> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm next
> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>
> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in areas
> that have no heat.
>
> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>
>
> ... Phil
>
>
http://www.krksys.com/krk-history.html
== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 9:42 am
From: Jeff Liebermann
On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:04:40 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
>> Could well contain carbon.
>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>From that site:
>
>Flocculation
>Following dispersion small particles of carbon black have a tendency to
>flocculate. To minimize this tendency it is necessary to take utmost care
>when diluting paints. Only small calculated additions should be made with
>thorough homogenization between additions
>
>So it could be that over time, whatever is used as a pigment "flocculates"
>and forms solid flakes or a layer of conductivity on the PCB.
>
>(Being as the pigment particles are not dissolved in a medium as a solution,
>but are merely mixed with it)
>
>Gareth.
Ouch. That could be serious. If the conductive carbon particles
remain suspended in solution, the goo will not be conductive because
the space between the particles is filled with the non-conductive base
glue. However, if the carbon particles are heavier than the glue,
they might precipitate out of the colloidal solution, and settle to
the bottom of the glue joint. The carbon particles might then overlap
each other, producing a conductive layer. If the carbon particles are
lighter than the glue, they could float to the surface and form a
conductive layer on the surface. Much depends on how the goo was
mixed and applied. If it hardens quickly, I don't think there will be
a problem. If it hardens very slowly, expect trouble. If it was
diluted with solvent, it probably produce conductive clumps of carbon.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 10:39 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:2sqt491eg4a66sv7ce7c0o8cao04b77k1c@4ax.com...
On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:04:40 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
>> Could well contain carbon.
>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>From that site:
>
>Flocculation
>Following dispersion small particles of carbon black have a tendency to
>flocculate. To minimize this tendency it is necessary to take utmost care
>when diluting paints. Only small calculated additions should be made with
>thorough homogenization between additions
>
>So it could be that over time, whatever is used as a pigment "flocculates"
>and forms solid flakes or a layer of conductivity on the PCB.
>
>(Being as the pigment particles are not dissolved in a medium as a
>solution,
>but are merely mixed with it)
>
>Gareth.
Ouch. That could be serious. If the conductive carbon particles
remain suspended in solution, the goo will not be conductive because
the space between the particles is filled with the non-conductive base
glue. However, if the carbon particles are heavier than the glue,
they might precipitate out of the colloidal solution, and settle to
the bottom of the glue joint. The carbon particles might then overlap
each other, producing a conductive layer. If the carbon particles are
lighter than the glue, they could float to the surface and form a
conductive layer on the surface. Much depends on how the goo was
mixed and applied. If it hardens quickly, I don't think there will be
a problem. If it hardens very slowly, expect trouble. If it was
diluted with solvent, it probably produce conductive clumps of carbon.
There may be other factors involved.
This adhesive is typically found in powered speakers, which can undergo
quite large temperature change cycles. This could regularly soften the
glue, which might in turn cause cyclic migration or clumping of any free
conductive particles therein.
But I'm not an adhesive expert, this is all just an interesting guess.
Gareth.
== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 6:46 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"
>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>
>
> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
No. It 'softens' it which then makes it become sort of 'plastic' so that it
can be peeled off the board without taking all the little surface mount
components with it
>
> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>
> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
> of a small shifting spanner.
This is the sort of thing that I was doing before, but one day I got so fed
up of having to use such force that I started trying all the liquid
chemicals that I had, just in case. The Servisol 160 is my defluxer of
choice, and I have used it for many years. I sprayed some on the glue, and
left it for 5 minutes, and when I tried again to shift the stuff, it had
ceased being hard and I was able to peel it with a blunt scalpel. Make no
mistake, it still doesn't come off easily, but much easier than when it is
hard before treatment. Whether it would have the same effect on your black
stuff, though ... ??
Arfa
>
> Stone mason's stuff.
>
>
>
> ... Phil
>
>
>
>
>
== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 8:09 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Arfa Daily"
>
>>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>>
>>
>> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>
>
> No. It 'softens' it which then makes it become sort of 'plastic' so that
> it can be peeled off the board without taking all the little surface mount
> components with it
>
>
>>
>> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
>> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>>
>> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back
>> end of a small shifting spanner.
>
>
> This is the sort of thing that I was doing before, but one day I got so
> fed up of having to use such force that I started trying all the liquid
> chemicals that I had, just in case. The Servisol 160 is my defluxer of
> choice, and I have used it for many years. I sprayed some on the glue, and
> left it for 5 minutes, and when I tried again to shift the stuff, it had
> ceased being hard and I was able to peel it with a blunt scalpel. Make no
> mistake, it still doesn't come off easily, but much easier than when it is
> hard before treatment. Whether it would have the same effect on your black
> stuff, though ... ??
** Servisol 160 is mixture of a few solvents including "naphtha" the magic
ingredient in WD-40.
http://www.crcind.com/wwwcrc/msds/UK20046-23.htm
It is also highly flammable and toxic - so it must do the job ....
... Phil
== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 4:21 am
From: "Phil Allison"
"dave"
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
>> ** Hi to all,
>>
>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>
>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>> with a
>> KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
>> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>
>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>
>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
>> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm
>> next
>> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>>
>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>> areas
>> that have no heat.
>>
>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>
>
> http://www.krksys.com/krk-history.html
** Ok, Dave, I do see the link.
Is there a particular reason you posted that to me right now ?
Juts what do you think you are doing - Dave ??
... Phil
== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 5:17 am
From: dave
On 10/05/2013 04:21 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "dave"
>>
>> Phil Allison wrote:
>>
>>> ** Hi to all,
>>>
>>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>>
>>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>>> with a
>>> KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
>>> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>>
>>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>>
>>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
>>> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm
>>> next
>>> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>>>
>>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>>> areas
>>> that have no heat.
>>>
>>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>
>>
>> http://www.krksys.com/krk-history.html
>
>
> ** Ok, Dave, I do see the link.
>
> Is there a particular reason you posted that to me right now ?
>
> Juts what do you think you are doing - Dave ??
>
>
>
>
> ... Phil
>
Pointing out that KRK was a good company until Gibson bought them. Their
original monitors are quite good. In fact, they turned my head at the
AES convention where they were debuted.
== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 5:47 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bbab1iFbl9iU1@mid.individual.net...
> Just what do you think you are doing -- Dave ??
"I can feel my mind going, Dave. Thee is no question about it."
== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 6:32 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message news:l2p1q0$kq9$1@dont-email.me...
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bbab1iFbl9iU1@mid.individual.net...
> Just what do you think you are doing -- Dave ??
"I can feel my mind going, Dave. Thee is no question about it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What to do when a key stops working on a Laptop keyboard?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bbd9adad1ab1364d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 7:58 pm
From: gregz
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
> Do you have a can of aerosol duster? If there's something blocking the
> key's movement, it might dislodge it without having to pop the cap.
I often turn keyboard upside down while doing that.
Greg
==============================================================================
TOPIC: alliance antenna rotor
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/60e644314adaefab?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 2:05 pm
From: "hrhofmann@sbcglobal.net"
What does a rotor have to do with a DVR, the rotor only orients the antenna unles you have found some new use for one!
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 2:18 pm
From: Michael Black
On Fri, 4 Oct 2013, hrhofmann@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> What does a rotor have to do with a DVR, the rotor only orients the
> antenna unles you have found some new use for one!
>
It would be far easier to follow what you were getting at if you actualy
quoted what you were replying to. google isn't Usenet, the rest of us see
it differently.
And if you need the antenna pointed in this direction for one channel, and
in that direction for another channel, then when you program the DVR to
record something on this channel and then that channel, the antenna
doesn't follow along. One of the channels won't be received, because the
antenna is not pointing the right way.
I have a similar problem with my DTV set. When I use my home made
multi-bowtie antenna, it's directional enough that when aimed for the US
channels, I miss some of the local channels. No problem, I can just shift
the antenna a bit, it's indoors. But, since the tv set doesn't let me
program in the "local channels", I have to do a scan. And it won't get
all the channels because the antenna is too directional. I did solve
that, put a loop on a longer piece of coax, hang the loop from a long
piece of bamboo pole, and stick that out the window. It gets enough
signal in all directions for the scan to get all the channels I'll get,
though some don't actually present a picture with that loop. Then I can
use the bowtie array, aiming it as needed.
Michael
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 8:26 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com
On Friday, October 4, 2013 2:05:21 PM UTC-7, hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> What does a rotor have to do with a DVR, the rotor only orients the antenna unles you have found some new use for one!
You're really asking such a silly question? I have computers recording TV 6 nights a week. You go turning the antenna and the reception goes bye bye. I don't know of any recording software that could re-aim the antenna first. If it were mine, I'd forgo the rotator and use multiple antennas and then jointenna diplexers to make one clean RF feed where all channels are available all the time. A private MATV system.
G²
==============================================================================
TOPIC: IC Identification Help (SMD Marking 651+, or maybe G51+), SOT-23-6
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/03b5c5812be29ee3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 12:57 am
From: pdaderko@yahoo.com
Quick update... the parts arrived from Digikey today, and I replaced the NDC651N with the SI3454ADV-T1-E3 (pin 6 bent up and over to pin 5), and it worked great.
Pat
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Converting a 200W discharge lamp video projector to LED
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c84c8e901a969276?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 7:01 am
From: N_Cook
The focused 7 cell honeycomb lens came together well. Doing the maths
and having a wedge tapering to .3mm seemed ok but trying to adapt
plastic to those sorts of dimensions is not practical. Having to mould
my own mounts.
The 2700K LEDs are noticeably cream yellow colour to the eye and seem to
have supressed the blue peak, too much?
Relative intensity through a dicroic colourwheel
R 340
G 270
B 070
even the reflection off the blue filter, ie complement colour of yellow
, is noticeably brighter than the reflections off the R and G sections.
I was expecting to add 5mm red LEDs but looks as though it will have to
be blue ones. Won't know for sure until the video projector has a
reasonable block of time to get inside to mess about.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dual Channel Software Oscilloscope Ver 2.0
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fccc843f2ff99948?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 10:53 pm
From: Scott Smith
Dual Channel Software Oscilloscope Ver 2.0
Uses your sound card line input for input
Single and Dual Trace Mode, Multiple Inputs
Six Trigger Modes, Auto / Manual Gain Mode
AC / DC, Normal / Triggered, Normal / Inverted Modes
Use soud Card Line Inputs for Input
Very Cheap Price (Special) $20 via Paypal.
Unlimited Support For Registered Users
http://www.vehiclerepair.org/scope/scope.html
==============================================================================
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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Luxmeter problem - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3131ff981cfbd416?hl=en
* Black Glue Peril - 16 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e2b7af1ebdef2435?hl=en
* What to do when a key stops working on a Laptop keyboard? - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bbd9adad1ab1364d?hl=en
* alliance antenna rotor - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/60e644314adaefab?hl=en
* IC Identification Help (SMD Marking 651+, or maybe G51+), SOT-23-6 - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/03b5c5812be29ee3?hl=en
* Converting a 200W discharge lamp video projector to LED - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c84c8e901a969276?hl=en
* Dual Channel Software Oscilloscope Ver 2.0 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fccc843f2ff99948?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Luxmeter problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3131ff981cfbd416?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 9:49 am
From: ggherold@gmail.com
On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:16:14 PM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:
> the BPW21 datasheet shows log-log plot of short circuit current v lux
>
> over 6 decades as linear, so something about short circuit compared with
>
> actual use?
I assume it's a photodiode. Then short circiut current is very linear. You'd have to share the circuit. But if they just use a simple resistor across the diode to convert I to V, then it becomes non-linear as the diode becomes forward biased and some of the current goes back though the diode and not the resistor.
George H.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 10:44 am
From: N_Cook
On 03/10/2013 17:49, ggherold@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 1:16:14 PM UTC-4, N_Cook wrote:
>> the BPW21 datasheet shows log-log plot of short circuit current v lux
>>
>> over 6 decades as linear, so something about short circuit compared with
>>
>> actual use?
>
> I assume it's a photodiode. Then short circiut current is very linear. You'd have to share the circuit. But if they just use a simple resistor across the diode to convert I to V, then it becomes non-linear as the diode becomes forward biased and some of the current goes back though the diode and not the resistor.
>
> George H.
>
Sounds plausible.
No known schematic but I'll dig out the data for the main chip and work
out what applies to it and lux measurement, which should show which pair
of presets and which is zero and which is range.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 11:58 pm
From: N_Cook
The photodiode is in series with 18K and one end of those 2 is connected
to an opamp input and the other end to another opamp input. So cannot be
fully linear. I.m reasonably confident which preset relates to which
function.
Overal zero and overall scaling, then one for scaling the temperature
function and one for the lux. The extra CMOS for OR driving the always
on 0 digit and the switching function and maybe auto-off function. As it
stands with zero lux it reads -80 lux so something obviously adrift.
Adjusting light levels up from zero , then from -20 to probably +20 it
auto "zeros" to 0. The temperature scale is easy to check calibration,
which leaves the lux scale.
Looks as though the nearest i will get to a reference light source is
taking the average of a number of 60watt mains tungsten lamps, but then
www sources say that is betwwen 700 lumens to 900 lumens, mostly about
840 to 870, and monitor 1 metre away. Accept that a reading of 20,000 is
nearer 100,000 lux and produce a corelation chart via some unknown but
constant value of bright source and 1,2,3, and 4 stop (1/2 to 1/16)
neutral density filters over the sensor .
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black Glue Peril
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e2b7af1ebdef2435?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 4:33 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
** Hi to all,
the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead - with a
KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm next
to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in areas
that have no heat.
Could the black colouring be carbon ??
... Phil
== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 3:50 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bb6d6fFhbqrU1@mid.individual.net...
> ** Hi to all,
>
> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>
> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead - with
> a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>
> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>
> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm next
> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>
> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
> areas that have no heat.
>
> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>
>
> ... Phil
>
>
I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and Tannoy
powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
Could well contain carbon.
http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
This stuff get it off quite nicely.
http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
(Arfa Daly recommended this product a while ago on this forum, I've tried
it, and it does work well)
Cheers,
Gareth.
== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 4:01 am
From: "Phil Allison"
"Gareth Magennis"
> "Phil Allison"
>
>> ** Hi to all,
>>
>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>
>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>> with a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs
>> are liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>
>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>
>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
>> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm
>> next to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>>
>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>> areas that have no heat.
>>
>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>
>
>
> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
** Very likely.
> Could well contain carbon.
> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
** Wot a bad idea.
>
> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>
** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with *ridiculous*
amounts of force.
I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
of a small shifting spanner.
Stone mason's stuff.
... Phil
== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 4:30 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bb7lgpFp1edU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Gareth Magennis"
>> "Phil Allison"
>>
>>> ** Hi to all,
>>>
>>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>>
>>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>>> with a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs
>>> are liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>>
>>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>>
>>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the
>>> way you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a
>>> 2.2kohm next to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs
>>> replacing.
>>>
>>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>>> areas that have no heat.
>>>
>>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>>
>>
>>
>> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
>> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
>> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
>
> ** Very likely.
>
>
>> Could well contain carbon.
>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>
>
> ** Wot a bad idea.
>
>>
>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>
>
> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>
> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>
> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
> of a small shifting spanner.
>
> Stone mason's stuff.
>
>
>
> ... Phil
>
That sounds more like an epoxy, maybe not the same stuff?
But why would it need to be black anyway? Just makes it more expensive than
uncloloured adhesive.
The flux cleaner I think just softens it, so it doesn't adhere as strongly
to the PCB. Arfa might be able to confirm or deny this.
Incidentally, I recently made my own black speaker glue (for fixing dust
caps) using Evostick and laser printer toner. Works a treat, and a damn
sight cheaper than this tiny tube of what is probably the same stuff.
http://www.saveltd.co.uk/jbl-professional-moyen-rs-3087-speaker-driver-cement-glue-4125-p.asp
Gareth.
== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 5:14 am
From: "Phil Allison"
"Gareth Magennis"
> "Phil Allison"
>>
>>> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
>>> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
>>> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
>>
>> ** Very likely.
>
>>>
>>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>>
>>
>> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>>
>> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
>> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>>
>> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back
>> end of a small shifting spanner.
>>
>> Stone mason's stuff.
>>
>
> That sounds more like an epoxy, maybe not the same stuff?
** It's the same horrible stuff - just black.
Time and a bit of heat turns it into rock.
> But why would it need to be black anyway?
** IEC inlets, rocker switches, XLRs and metal back panels are commonly
black.
So it matches, when used to achieve an air seal around them, like in this
case.
... Phil
== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 5:30 am
From: N_Cook
On 04/10/2013 12:30, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> news:bb7lgpFp1edU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Gareth Magennis"
>>> "Phil Allison"
>>>
>>>> ** Hi to all,
>>>>
>>>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>>>
>>>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>>>> with a KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs
>>>> are liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>>>
>>>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>>>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>>>
>>>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the
>>>> way you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a
>>>> 2.2kohm next to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs
>>>> replacing.
>>>>
>>>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>>>> areas that have no heat.
>>>>
>>>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been seeing this black stuff for a while now, on KRK, Alesis and
>>> Tannoy powered monitors, but curiously not other types of equipment.
>>> Perhaps they are all made in the same factory.
>>
>> ** Very likely.
>>
>>
>>> Could well contain carbon.
>>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>>
>>
>> ** Wot a bad idea.
>>
>>>
>>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>>
>>
>> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>>
>> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
>> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>>
>> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
>> of a small shifting spanner.
>>
>> Stone mason's stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> ... Phil
>>
>
>
> That sounds more like an epoxy, maybe not the same stuff?
> But why would it need to be black anyway? Just makes it more expensive than
> uncloloured adhesive.
>
> The flux cleaner I think just softens it, so it doesn't adhere as strongly
> to the PCB. Arfa might be able to confirm or deny this.
>
>
>
> Incidentally, I recently made my own black speaker glue (for fixing dust
> caps) using Evostick and laser printer toner. Works a treat, and a damn
> sight cheaper than this tiny tube of what is probably the same stuff.
>
> http://www.saveltd.co.uk/jbl-professional-moyen-rs-3087-speaker-driver-cement-glue-4125-p.asp
>
>
>
>
> Gareth.
>
>
So that makes it 3 different types that cause such problems.
The yellow glue stuff
The white softish conformal coating material that breaks down leaving a
distinctive oily film, plus corrossion/conduction problems
This black stuff now
Does no manufacturer do accelerated aging of these sorts of materials
before selling them
== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 8:04 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
> Could well contain carbon.
> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>
From that site:
Flocculation
Following dispersion small particles of carbon black have a tendency to
flocculate. To minimize this tendency it is necessary to take utmost care
when diluting paints. Only small calculated additions should be made with
thorough homogenization between additions
So it could be that over time, whatever is used as a pigment "flocculates"
and forms solid flakes or a layer of conductivity on the PCB.
(Being as the pigment particles are not dissolved in a medium as a solution,
but are merely mixed with it)
Gareth.
== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 8:08 am
From: dave
On 10/03/2013 04:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> ** Hi to all,
>
> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>
> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead - with a
> KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>
> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>
> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm next
> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>
> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in areas
> that have no heat.
>
> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>
>
> ... Phil
>
>
http://www.krksys.com/krk-history.html
== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 9:42 am
From: Jeff Liebermann
On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:04:40 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
>> Could well contain carbon.
>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>From that site:
>
>Flocculation
>Following dispersion small particles of carbon black have a tendency to
>flocculate. To minimize this tendency it is necessary to take utmost care
>when diluting paints. Only small calculated additions should be made with
>thorough homogenization between additions
>
>So it could be that over time, whatever is used as a pigment "flocculates"
>and forms solid flakes or a layer of conductivity on the PCB.
>
>(Being as the pigment particles are not dissolved in a medium as a solution,
>but are merely mixed with it)
>
>Gareth.
Ouch. That could be serious. If the conductive carbon particles
remain suspended in solution, the goo will not be conductive because
the space between the particles is filled with the non-conductive base
glue. However, if the carbon particles are heavier than the glue,
they might precipitate out of the colloidal solution, and settle to
the bottom of the glue joint. The carbon particles might then overlap
each other, producing a conductive layer. If the carbon particles are
lighter than the glue, they could float to the surface and form a
conductive layer on the surface. Much depends on how the goo was
mixed and applied. If it hardens quickly, I don't think there will be
a problem. If it hardens very slowly, expect trouble. If it was
diluted with solvent, it probably produce conductive clumps of carbon.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 10:39 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:2sqt491eg4a66sv7ce7c0o8cao04b77k1c@4ax.com...
On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:04:40 +0100, "Gareth Magennis"
<sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote:
>> Could well contain carbon.
>> http://www.specialchem4coatings.com/tc/color-handbook/?id=black
>From that site:
>
>Flocculation
>Following dispersion small particles of carbon black have a tendency to
>flocculate. To minimize this tendency it is necessary to take utmost care
>when diluting paints. Only small calculated additions should be made with
>thorough homogenization between additions
>
>So it could be that over time, whatever is used as a pigment "flocculates"
>and forms solid flakes or a layer of conductivity on the PCB.
>
>(Being as the pigment particles are not dissolved in a medium as a
>solution,
>but are merely mixed with it)
>
>Gareth.
Ouch. That could be serious. If the conductive carbon particles
remain suspended in solution, the goo will not be conductive because
the space between the particles is filled with the non-conductive base
glue. However, if the carbon particles are heavier than the glue,
they might precipitate out of the colloidal solution, and settle to
the bottom of the glue joint. The carbon particles might then overlap
each other, producing a conductive layer. If the carbon particles are
lighter than the glue, they could float to the surface and form a
conductive layer on the surface. Much depends on how the goo was
mixed and applied. If it hardens quickly, I don't think there will be
a problem. If it hardens very slowly, expect trouble. If it was
diluted with solvent, it probably produce conductive clumps of carbon.
There may be other factors involved.
This adhesive is typically found in powered speakers, which can undergo
quite large temperature change cycles. This could regularly soften the
glue, which might in turn cause cyclic migration or clumping of any free
conductive particles therein.
But I'm not an adhesive expert, this is all just an interesting guess.
Gareth.
== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 6:46 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"
>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>
>
> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
No. It 'softens' it which then makes it become sort of 'plastic' so that it
can be peeled off the board without taking all the little surface mount
components with it
>
> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>
> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back end
> of a small shifting spanner.
This is the sort of thing that I was doing before, but one day I got so fed
up of having to use such force that I started trying all the liquid
chemicals that I had, just in case. The Servisol 160 is my defluxer of
choice, and I have used it for many years. I sprayed some on the glue, and
left it for 5 minutes, and when I tried again to shift the stuff, it had
ceased being hard and I was able to peel it with a blunt scalpel. Make no
mistake, it still doesn't come off easily, but much easier than when it is
hard before treatment. Whether it would have the same effect on your black
stuff, though ... ??
Arfa
>
> Stone mason's stuff.
>
>
>
> ... Phil
>
>
>
>
>
== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 8:09 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Arfa Daily"
>
>>> This stuff get it off quite nicely.
>>> http://uk.farnell.com/servisol/100019000/flux-remover-160-200ml/dp/3821470?Ntt=de-flux+160
>>>
>>
>> ** Does it simply dissolve the horrible stuff ?
>
>
> No. It 'softens' it which then makes it become sort of 'plastic' so that
> it can be peeled off the board without taking all the little surface mount
> components with it
>
>
>>
>> What the KRKs use goes rock hard and has to be chipped of with
>> *ridiculous* amounts of force.
>>
>> I have been using a jeweller's screwdriver, hit repeatedly with a back
>> end of a small shifting spanner.
>
>
> This is the sort of thing that I was doing before, but one day I got so
> fed up of having to use such force that I started trying all the liquid
> chemicals that I had, just in case. The Servisol 160 is my defluxer of
> choice, and I have used it for many years. I sprayed some on the glue, and
> left it for 5 minutes, and when I tried again to shift the stuff, it had
> ceased being hard and I was able to peel it with a blunt scalpel. Make no
> mistake, it still doesn't come off easily, but much easier than when it is
> hard before treatment. Whether it would have the same effect on your black
> stuff, though ... ??
** Servisol 160 is mixture of a few solvents including "naphtha" the magic
ingredient in WD-40.
http://www.crcind.com/wwwcrc/msds/UK20046-23.htm
It is also highly flammable and toxic - so it must do the job ....
... Phil
== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 4:21 am
From: "Phil Allison"
"dave"
>
> Phil Allison wrote:
>
>> ** Hi to all,
>>
>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>
>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>> with a
>> KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
>> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>
>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>
>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
>> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm
>> next
>> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>>
>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>> areas
>> that have no heat.
>>
>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>
>
> http://www.krksys.com/krk-history.html
** Ok, Dave, I do see the link.
Is there a particular reason you posted that to me right now ?
Juts what do you think you are doing - Dave ??
... Phil
== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 5:17 am
From: dave
On 10/05/2013 04:21 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "dave"
>>
>> Phil Allison wrote:
>>
>>> ** Hi to all,
>>>
>>> the dreaded " Yellow Glue" problem has been mentioned here a few times.
>>>
>>> I have exactly the same problem, but the glue is now black instead -
>>> with a
>>> KRK 'Rokit 5" powered monitor - from China of course. Both PCBs are
>>> liberally covered in the stuff, more on the amplifier and PSU one.
>>>
>>> Symptoms in my example were loud crackling and low volume - which
>>> recovered when I wound the AC back to 160V !!
>>>
>>> Seems you have to get every bit of it off to effect repair. Along the way
>>> you will see corroded leads and PCB link wires - there is a 2.2kohm
>>> next
>>> to the filter caps that is buried in the glue and needs replacing.
>>>
>>> This is worse than the Yellow Glue problem as it becomes conductive in
>>> areas
>>> that have no heat.
>>>
>>> Could the black colouring be carbon ??
>>
>>
>> http://www.krksys.com/krk-history.html
>
>
> ** Ok, Dave, I do see the link.
>
> Is there a particular reason you posted that to me right now ?
>
> Juts what do you think you are doing - Dave ??
>
>
>
>
> ... Phil
>
Pointing out that KRK was a good company until Gibson bought them. Their
original monitors are quite good. In fact, they turned my head at the
AES convention where they were debuted.
== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 5:47 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bbab1iFbl9iU1@mid.individual.net...
> Just what do you think you are doing -- Dave ??
"I can feel my mind going, Dave. Thee is no question about it."
== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 6:32 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"
"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message news:l2p1q0$kq9$1@dont-email.me...
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bbab1iFbl9iU1@mid.individual.net...
> Just what do you think you are doing -- Dave ??
"I can feel my mind going, Dave. Thee is no question about it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41U78QP8nBk
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What to do when a key stops working on a Laptop keyboard?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bbd9adad1ab1364d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 3 2013 7:58 pm
From: gregz
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
> Do you have a can of aerosol duster? If there's something blocking the
> key's movement, it might dislodge it without having to pop the cap.
I often turn keyboard upside down while doing that.
Greg
==============================================================================
TOPIC: alliance antenna rotor
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/60e644314adaefab?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 2:05 pm
From: "hrhofmann@sbcglobal.net"
What does a rotor have to do with a DVR, the rotor only orients the antenna unles you have found some new use for one!
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 4 2013 2:18 pm
From: Michael Black
On Fri, 4 Oct 2013, hrhofmann@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> What does a rotor have to do with a DVR, the rotor only orients the
> antenna unles you have found some new use for one!
>
It would be far easier to follow what you were getting at if you actualy
quoted what you were replying to. google isn't Usenet, the rest of us see
it differently.
And if you need the antenna pointed in this direction for one channel, and
in that direction for another channel, then when you program the DVR to
record something on this channel and then that channel, the antenna
doesn't follow along. One of the channels won't be received, because the
antenna is not pointing the right way.
I have a similar problem with my DTV set. When I use my home made
multi-bowtie antenna, it's directional enough that when aimed for the US
channels, I miss some of the local channels. No problem, I can just shift
the antenna a bit, it's indoors. But, since the tv set doesn't let me
program in the "local channels", I have to do a scan. And it won't get
all the channels because the antenna is too directional. I did solve
that, put a loop on a longer piece of coax, hang the loop from a long
piece of bamboo pole, and stick that out the window. It gets enough
signal in all directions for the scan to get all the channels I'll get,
though some don't actually present a picture with that loop. Then I can
use the bowtie array, aiming it as needed.
Michael
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 8:26 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com
On Friday, October 4, 2013 2:05:21 PM UTC-7, hrho...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> What does a rotor have to do with a DVR, the rotor only orients the antenna unles you have found some new use for one!
You're really asking such a silly question? I have computers recording TV 6 nights a week. You go turning the antenna and the reception goes bye bye. I don't know of any recording software that could re-aim the antenna first. If it were mine, I'd forgo the rotator and use multiple antennas and then jointenna diplexers to make one clean RF feed where all channels are available all the time. A private MATV system.
G²
==============================================================================
TOPIC: IC Identification Help (SMD Marking 651+, or maybe G51+), SOT-23-6
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/03b5c5812be29ee3?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 12:57 am
From: pdaderko@yahoo.com
Quick update... the parts arrived from Digikey today, and I replaced the NDC651N with the SI3454ADV-T1-E3 (pin 6 bent up and over to pin 5), and it worked great.
Pat
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Converting a 200W discharge lamp video projector to LED
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c84c8e901a969276?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 7:01 am
From: N_Cook
The focused 7 cell honeycomb lens came together well. Doing the maths
and having a wedge tapering to .3mm seemed ok but trying to adapt
plastic to those sorts of dimensions is not practical. Having to mould
my own mounts.
The 2700K LEDs are noticeably cream yellow colour to the eye and seem to
have supressed the blue peak, too much?
Relative intensity through a dicroic colourwheel
R 340
G 270
B 070
even the reflection off the blue filter, ie complement colour of yellow
, is noticeably brighter than the reflections off the R and G sections.
I was expecting to add 5mm red LEDs but looks as though it will have to
be blue ones. Won't know for sure until the video projector has a
reasonable block of time to get inside to mess about.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dual Channel Software Oscilloscope Ver 2.0
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fccc843f2ff99948?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 5 2013 10:53 pm
From: Scott Smith
Dual Channel Software Oscilloscope Ver 2.0
Uses your sound card line input for input
Single and Dual Trace Mode, Multiple Inputs
Six Trigger Modes, Auto / Manual Gain Mode
AC / DC, Normal / Triggered, Normal / Inverted Modes
Use soud Card Line Inputs for Input
Very Cheap Price (Special) $20 via Paypal.
Unlimited Support For Registered Users
http://www.vehiclerepair.org/scope/scope.html
==============================================================================
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