sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Open SSID for HP printers - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
* Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current - 2 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
* Philips "Docking Entertainment System" Model DCM230, CD Player Issue - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/21f34ca4c0956864?hl=en
* Real RMS question - 10 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
* Test post for Termey - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
* Al madinah international university - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e41d36878fe8e8c7?hl=en
* Sumvision SV 1000 recording DVD - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e9cc608c8f3312a4?hl=en
* Are You Looking For Fridge Repair Service? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/67491ea6a7ce1fa6?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Open SSID for HP printers
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 12:48 pm
From: root
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>
>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>
>>
> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
> break into your house.
>
> Michael
>
I must not have made myself clear. I wonder whether a person
who has his printer setup as open could be victimized by
someone outside sending stuff to the open printer.
In my search for open sites I saw that some sites came
up as open and were HP printers. I don't know where they
are, they are just somewhere and open.
== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 2:33 pm
From: Leif Neland
root forklarede den 04-01-2014:
> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>>
>>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>>
>>>
>> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
>> break into your house.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>
> I must not have made myself clear. I wonder whether a person
> who has his printer setup as open could be victimized by
> someone outside sending stuff to the open printer.
>
I believe that's what the previous poster means.
They might be able to print on your printer, but they have to break
into your house to get the print.
But what they print could be X-rated, or they could just all your
toner/paper.
Perhaps it is possible to sneak malware to the printer, which could
send copies of the printed/scanned to a remote destination, or could
attack orher units on the local net.
I know of no such things however...
--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 3:03 pm
From: mike
On 1/4/2014 2:33 PM, Leif Neland wrote:
> root forklarede den 04-01-2014:
>> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>>>
>>>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>>>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>>>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>>>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
>>> break into your house.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>
>> I must not have made myself clear. I wonder whether a person
>> who has his printer setup as open could be victimized by
>> someone outside sending stuff to the open printer.
>>
> I believe that's what the previous poster means.
>
> They might be able to print on your printer, but they have to break into
> your house to get the print.
>
> But what they print could be X-rated, or they could just all your
> toner/paper.
>
> Perhaps it is possible to sneak malware to the printer, which could send
> copies of the printed/scanned to a remote destination, or could attack
> orher units on the local net.
>
> I know of no such things however...
>
check the name on the mailbox...
Hi, jim sent me by to pick up the printouts...
== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 3:39 pm
From: Fred McKenzie
In article <la9s2t$pg3$1@news.albasani.net>, root <NoEMail@home.org>
wrote:
> I must not have made myself clear. I wonder whether a person
> who has his printer setup as open could be victimized by
> someone outside sending stuff to the open printer.
>
> In my search for open sites I saw that some sites came
> up as open and were HP printers. I don't know where they
> are, they are just somewhere and open.
Root-
Obviously someone could do that. Damage might be limited by how much
paper is in the printer, or how quickly the owner could react if nearby.
Many wireless printers come with their WiFi set up in ad-hoc mode. HP
also has their "Wi-Fi Direct" mode. You can connect directly to them
unless they have been paired with a WiFi router.
I think what you are seeing are wireless printers that are either
connected by a USB cable instead of WiFi, or are being used with iPhones
that have their internet connection through the phone company.
The owners may not be aware that the printer's WiFi is open! Anyone
that has such a printer should at least set the WiFi to require a
password.
Fred
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 3:02 pm
From: mike
On 1/4/2014 10:29 AM, mroberds@att.net wrote:
> Followups set to sci.electronics.repair .
>
> In sci.electronics.repair Danny D'Amico <danny@is.invalid> wrote:
>> How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
>
> With a sharp knife, remove 2 inches (50 mm) or so of the outer
> insulation of the cable, in the middle of the cable. Try hard not
> to nick the insulation on the four individual wires inside the cable,
> but if you do, it's not a total disaster.
>
> Next, try to identify the two data wires and the two power wires. Often
> the data wires will be twisted; the power wires may or may not be. The
> power wires will also often be one or two wire gauges thicker than the
> data wires, but not always, and this is kind of hard to tell. The power
> wires *might* be red and black, but don't count on this.
>
> Pick what you think is one of the power wires and cut it, right in the
> middle of the stripped part. Strip the cut wire ends 1/4" (6 mm) or so.
> Get your multimeter and test between all four contacts on the big (PC)
> end of the cable, and the stripped wire that comes from that connector.
> It may help to use a paper clip or other small piece of solid wire to
> touch the contacts in the USB connector if the multimeter probe won't
> fit.
>
> If the stripped wire is continuous with only one of the two outside
> contacts in the USB plug, you did indeed cut one of the power wires.
>
> If the stripped wire is continuous with only one of the two inside
> contacts (it doesn't matter which one), you picked a data wire; solder
> the stripped ends back together, insulate with a small amount of tape
> (electrical tape is ideal, Scotch tape will work fine for this), and
> pick another wire.
>
> If the stripped wire is continuous with more than one contact, then
> you probably nicked the insulation on more than one wire when you were
> initially stripping the cable - find the places that are touching and
> separate them, and maybe insulate the bare spots individually with
> tape.
>
> Once you have figured out that you did indeed cut the power wire, you
> can figure out how to hook the power wire up to your multimeter. Your
> meter may have come with alligator clips that go on the probe ends; if
> you have those, use them. What I use for things like this, because I
> already own some, are clip leads - short stranded wires with alligator
> clips on each end. Rat Shock 278-1157 or 278-1156 are typical; Fry's
> probably has a better price on similar products.
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062661
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062660
>
> If you have alligator clips that fit your meter probes, put them on the
> probes. If you have a digital meter, clip one probe to one stripped
> wire and the other probe to the other one - it does not matter which
> way around the red and black wires are. If you get the probes
> "backwards", you will get exactly the same current reading, just with
> a minus sign in front of it. If you have an analog meter, you have to
> get the probes the right way around, but IIRC you have a digital one.
>
> If you have clip leads, clip a red clip lead to the red probe of your
> meter and to one of the stripped wire ends. Clip a black clip lead
> to the black probe of your meter and to the other stripped wire again.
> As above, if you have a digital meter, it does not matter which way
> around the red and black wires are.
>
> Next, figure out how to make your multimeter measure current. With the
> meters most people have, you need to rotate a dial to an "A DC" range,
> and move the red meter lead over to a different jack on the meter. Do
> whatever you need to for your particular meter.
>
> Plug the mini-USB end into your peripheral (external hard drive or
> whatever). Put the peripheral somewhere close to the meter, so you can
> watch it and the meter at the same time. While watching both the
> peripheral and the meter, plug the PC end of the USB cable into the PC.
>
> If all is well, the peripheral should come on (hard drive spins up /
> LED comes on / whatever), and the meter should show some amount of
> current. If nothing is happening, or if you smell smoke, unplug the
> USB cable from the PC immediately and investigate. If the peripheral
> draws "too much" current, the PC may shut down that particular USB port;
> this isn't permanent, but sometimes it takes a reboot to re-enable the
> port.
>
> Don't be surprised if the current jumps around some as the device
> operates. Even "simple" stuff like keyboards will draw slightly
> different amounts of current when you are typing vs not, or when (say)
> the Caps Lock LED is on, or whatever. If your meter has a "max hold"
> or "peak hold" function, that can be useful to capture the highest
> current reading the meter sees. Some peripherals will have a current
> rating printed on them, but this is usually the maximum current it
> will ever draw - it won't usually draw that much continuously.
>
> When you are done measuring current with your multimeter, disconnect
> the leads from the circuit, and *IMMEDIATELY* move the red lead back
> over to its regular socket - don't wait until later to move it back.
> The reason is that in the amps range, the meter is nearly a dead short.
> It's *easy* to measure current and then try to measure voltage without
> moving the lead back, and blow the fuse in the meter. I've watched it
> being done and I've even done it myself.
>
> Standard disclaimers apply: I don't get money or other consideration
> from any companies mentioned.
>
> Matt Roberds
>
If I understand you, you're saying that it's ok to measure in the ground
wire.
In a perfect world, that's no problem...Assuming there isn't a shield
wire that bridges it.
Given all the things that can go wrong, I'd suggest you stick to
measuring in the +5 wire.
Breaking the ground never breaks anything...until it does.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 6:37 pm
From: mroberds@att.net
mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
> On 1/4/2014 10:29 AM, mroberds@att.net wrote:
>>
>> Pick what you think is one of the power wires and cut it, right in
>> the middle of the stripped part.
>>
> If I understand you, you're saying that it's ok to measure in the
> ground wire.
That is what I was saying, yes.
> In a perfect world, that's no problem...Assuming there isn't a shield
> wire that bridges it.
The few USB devices I've taken apart seem to do a decent job of not
returning the power supply current on the shield, but I am aware that
there are millions of devices out there, and they probably don't all do
it the same way. (Hey, if we run the power supply ground on the shield,
we can use 3-wire cable instead of 4-wire and save 0.00013 cents per
unit!)
> Given all the things that can go wrong, I'd suggest you stick to
> measuring in the +5 wire.
I agree that that's generally a good plan. I figured that not being
picky about which power wire was opened would be easier to implement
for the original poster.
Matt Roberds
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Philips "Docking Entertainment System" Model DCM230, CD Player Issue
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/21f34ca4c0956864?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 4:49 pm
From: "Mark Zacharias"
<jaugustine@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:mssac9lvshhg04onu8146hrm7lkc2ctlpe@4ax.com...
> <SNIP>
>>
>>Philips laser pickups die like flies. Just sayin' .
>>
>>Some versions are available on eBay cheap.
>>
>>Mark Z.
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> Did you notice that I said the cd disc does not spin?
> Note: Not exact words.
>
> Before the pickup can do anything, the disc has to
> spin first.
>
> John
>
They must achieve focus before they will spin. This has been the case for 20
years.
mz
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 1:31 am
From: Leif Neland
Mark Zacharias kom med denne ide:
>
> They [ cd player ] must achieve focus before they will spin. This has been
> the case for 20 years.
>
Probably to make sure the "pickup" is not resting solidly on the disk
or a chocolate biscuit.
Leif
--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Real RMS question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 5:28 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Leif Neland"
> Phil Allison
>> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF
>> power of a microwave oven.
>
> Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power on.
** Should be OK with a glass tube and red liquid type.
> Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it to
> boil.
** Bad idea.
Takes far too long, when boiling first begins is not clear and lots of heat
is lost to the air and evaporation.
> I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
** Using half a litre in a plastic jug for two minutes, I got the answer to
within 10% with a 700W rated oven.
Having a K-type bead thermocouple and digital temp meter made the job easier
too.
.... Phil
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 6:21 pm
From: "Shaun"
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:birqprFai6pU1@mid.individual.net...
"Leif Neland"
> Phil Allison
>> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF
>> power of a microwave oven.
>
> Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power on.
>** Should be OK with a glass tube and red liquid type.
> Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it to
> boil.
** Bad idea.
>Takes far too long, when boiling first begins is not clear and lots of heat
is lost to the air and evaporation.
> I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
>** Using half a litre in a plastic jug for two minutes, I got the answer to
within 10% with a 700W rated oven.
>Having a K-type bead thermocouple and digital temp meter made the job
>easier
too.
You don't run it till boiling! once you get close to boiling point a lot of
extra energy is required to raise it further and make it boil. What you do
is run a glass of cold distilled water measured (temp and volume) in a
container, you could use several stacked Styrofoam cups for insulation and
cover the top with Styrofoam so that the heat generated does not escape and
run the oven till the temperature increase 20 to 50 degrees or so, then
measure the temp, the information will have an equation to convert degrees
rise to microwave power. Google the method - I haven't looked it up lately.
Shaun
.... Phil
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 6:29 pm
From: dave
On 01/04/2014 06:21 PM, Shaun wrote:
>
>
> "Phil Allison" wrote in message news:birqprFai6pU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Leif Neland"
>> Phil Allison
>>> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power
>>> RF power of a microwave oven.
>>
>> Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power on.
>
>> ** Should be OK with a glass tube and red liquid type.
>
>
>> Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for
>> it to boil.
>
> ** Bad idea.
>
>> Takes far too long, when boiling first begins is not clear and lots of
>> heat
> is lost to the air and evaporation.
>
>
>> I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
>
>> ** Using half a litre in a plastic jug for two minutes, I got the
>> answer to
> within 10% with a 700W rated oven.
>
>> Having a K-type bead thermocouple and digital temp meter made the job
>> easier
> too.
>
> You don't run it till boiling! once you get close to boiling point a
> lot of extra energy is required to raise it further and make it boil.
> What you do is run a glass of cold distilled water measured (temp and
> volume) in a container, you could use several stacked Styrofoam cups for
> insulation and cover the top with Styrofoam so that the heat generated
> does not escape and run the oven till the temperature increase 20 to 50
> degrees or so, then measure the temp, the information will have an
> equation to convert degrees rise to microwave power. Google the method
> - I haven't looked it up lately.
>
> Shaun
>
>
>
> .... Phil
>
That is not how a calorimeter works. The load must be enclosed in liquid
and must perfectly match the RF output so it absorbs all the energy.
Then the temperature should be a very accurate way to measure power. It
must be a closed, water cooled load.
http://electro-impulse.com/techinfo/calorimeters.htm
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 6:41 pm
From: "Shaun"
"Shaun" wrote in message news:Pk3yu.184114$Ks5.25080@fx08.iad...
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:birqprFai6pU1@mid.individual.net...
"Leif Neland"
> Phil Allison
>> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF
>> power of a microwave oven.
>
> Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power on.
>** Should be OK with a glass tube and red liquid type.
> Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it to
> boil.
** Bad idea.
>Takes far too long, when boiling first begins is not clear and lots of heat
is lost to the air and evaporation.
> I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
>** Using half a litre in a plastic jug for two minutes, I got the answer to
within 10% with a 700W rated oven.
>Having a K-type bead thermocouple and digital temp meter made the job
>easier
too.
You don't run it till boiling! once you get close to boiling point a lot of
extra energy is required to raise it further and make it boil. What you do
is run a glass of cold distilled water measured (temp and volume) in a
container, you could use several stacked Styrofoam cups for insulation and
cover the top with Styrofoam so that the heat generated does not escape and
run the oven till the temperature increase 20 to 50 degrees or so, then
measure the temp, the information will have an equation to convert degrees
rise to microwave power. Google the method - I haven't looked it up lately.
Shaun
Here is the Method from RepairFAQ from Sam:
7.1) Testing the oven - the water heating test
The precise number of degrees a known quantity of water increases in
temperature for a known time and power level is a very accurate test of
the actual useful microwave power. A couple of minutes with a cup of
water and a thermometer will conclusively determine if your microwave
oven is weak or you are just less patient (or the manufacturer of your
frozen dinners has increased their weight - sure, fat chance of that!)
You can skip the heavy math below and jump right to the final result
if you like. However, for those who are interested:
* 1 Calorie (C) will raise the temperature of 1 gram (g) of liquid water
exactly 1 degree Centigrade (DegC) or 9/5 degree Fahrenheit (DegF).
* 1 Calorie is equal to 4.184 Joules (J) or 1 J = .239 C.
* 1 Watt (W) of power is 1 J/s or 1 KW is 1000 J/s.
* 1 cup is 8 ounces (oz) which is 8 x 28.35 g/oz = 226.8 g.
* 1 minute equals 60 s (but you know this!).
Therefore, in one minute, a 1 KW microwave oven will raise the temperature
of 1 cup of water by:
T(rise) = (60 s * 1000 J/s * .239C/J * (g * DegC)/C)/(226.8 g) = 63
DegC.
Or, if your prefer Fahrenheit: 114 DegF.
To account for estimated losses due to conduction, convection, and imperfect
power transfer, I suggest using temperature rises of 60 DegC and 109 DegF.
Therefore, a very simple test is to place a measured cup of water in the
microwave from the tap and measure its temperature before and after heating
for exactly 1 minute on HIGH. Scale the expected temperature rise by the
ratio of the microwave (not AC line) power of your oven compared to a 1 KW
unit.
Or, from a Litton microwave handbook:
Heat one Liter (L) of water on HIGH for 1 minute.
Oven power = temperature rise in DegC multiplied by 70.
Use a plastic container rather than a glass one to minimize the needed
energy loss to raise its temperature by conduction from the hot water.
There will be some losses due to convection but this should not be that
significant for these short tests.
(Note: if the water is boiling when it comes out - at 100 DegC or 212 DegF,
then the test is invalid - use colder water or a shorter time.)
The intermediate power levels can be tested as well. The heating effect of
a microwave oven is nearly linear. Thus, a cup of water should take nearly
roughly twice as long to heat a specific number of degrees on 50% power or
3.3 times as long on 30% power as on full power. However, for low power
tests, increasing the time to 2 minutes with 2 cups of water will result
in more accurate measurements due to the long period pulse width power
control use by microwave ovens which may have a cycle of up to 30 seconds.
Any significant discrepancy between your measurements and the specified
microwave power levels - say more than 10 % on HIGH - may indicate a
problem.
(Due to conduction and convection losses as well as the time required to
heat the filament of the magnetron for each on-cycle, the accuracies of
the intermediate power level measurements may be slightly lower).
Shaun
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 11:53 pm
From: Jeff Urban
I wanted to reply to this when you first posted it but I couldn't for
whatever reason. fucking thing. As you can see I am not posting from
google, which I no longer capitalize !!!! LOL
Anyway, what characterizes ANY part for the transmission of audio is
linearity. Even though the gate of a MOSFET is driven wildly different
than the base of a BPT, linearity of gain fro the very small signal to
the very large signal is the prime. We used to look at the hfe and HFE
gain curves of bipolars in the old days, not it is different.
Any kinds of spurious shit like oscillations would be no good in
switcxhers as well. the thing is, switchers somethimes have a gain curve
that is like, made to be on or off.
An audio transistor must operate in the analog range, that means the
gain curve should be as flat as possible through the operating current
range.
The same is true of a MOSFET.
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 12:24 am
From: N_Cook
On 05/01/2014 07:53, Jeff Urban wrote:
> I wanted to reply to this when you first posted it but I couldn't for
> whatever reason. fucking thing. As you can see I am not posting from
> google, which I no longer capitalize !!!! LOL
>
> Anyway, what characterizes ANY part for the transmission of audio is
> linearity. Even though the gate of a MOSFET is driven wildly different
> than the base of a BPT, linearity of gain fro the very small signal to
> the very large signal is the prime. We used to look at the hfe and HFE
> gain curves of bipolars in the old days, not it is different.
>
> Any kinds of spurious shit like oscillations would be no good in
> switcxhers as well. the thing is, switchers somethimes have a gain curve
> that is like, made to be on or off.
>
> An audio transistor must operate in the analog range, that means the
> gain curve should be as flat as possible through the operating current
> range.
>
> The same is true of a MOSFET.
>
Ah at last , thanks, a pertinent reply to my original question. I was
wondering if it was a larger area of silicon so the heat can migrate out
of the die quicker. So from what you say a non-audio switcher mosfet
could be used for analogue but the power rating would have to be derated
and no other qualification for such use, anymore than usual precautions
you would use for a switcher situation. I suppose the amount of derating
would then depend on the type of use bass amp v GP audio amp, dance
music v classical music etc
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 3:06 am
From: "Phil Allison"
"Nutcase Kook is yet another pig ignorant pommy cunt"
> Other than p channel in this case, same for BUZ901P nch
> eg BUZ906P 200V, 8A ,datasheet says
> "POWER MOSFETS FOR
> AUDIO APPLICATIONS"
> but also
> "FEATURES ... (for use in)
> HIGH SPEED SWITCHING ... "
** The Semelab app note makes it pretty clear there is a HUGE difference
between "switching" and audio ( ie lateral) power mosfets.
http://products.semelab-tt.com/pdf/ApplicationNoteAlfet.pdf
> Would a powerFET designed solely for high speed switching use and 125W
> rating be derated in power handling terms to only 50W say for linear 10 Hz
> use. Or secondary oscillation liability if paralleled up devices? or some
> other operational failing in audio use not found with smps say ?
** Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....
More brainless, fucking TROLLING !!!!!!!
FOAD you vile pommy cunthead.
.... Phil
> Ah at last , thanks, a pertinent reply to my original question.
** There is no possible answer to a question as wrong headed and stupid as
that.
So you will never get one.
FOAD you vile pommy cunthead.
.... Phil
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 3:29 am
From: N_Cook
On 05/01/2014 07:53, Jeff Urban wrote:
> I wanted to reply to this when you first posted it but I couldn't for
> whatever reason. fucking thing. As you can see I am not posting from
> google, which I no longer capitalize !!!! LOL
>
> Anyway, what characterizes ANY part for the transmission of audio is
> linearity. Even though the gate of a MOSFET is driven wildly different
> than the base of a BPT, linearity of gain fro the very small signal to
> the very large signal is the prime. We used to look at the hfe and HFE
> gain curves of bipolars in the old days, not it is different.
>
> Any kinds of spurious shit like oscillations would be no good in
> switcxhers as well. the thing is, switchers somethimes have a gain curve
> that is like, made to be on or off.
>
> An audio transistor must operate in the analog range, that means the
> gain curve should be as flat as possible through the operating current
> range.
>
> The same is true of a MOSFET.
>
or on rereading . If an audio application can tolerate a certain amount
of cross-over distortion and general harmonic distortion then there is
no difference in powerfet useage type , up to some power level where
these distortions become too apparent.
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 5:50 pm
From: dave
On 01/05/2014 03:29 AM, N_Cook wrote:
> On 05/01/2014 07:53, Jeff Urban wrote:
>> I wanted to reply to this when you first posted it but I couldn't for
>> whatever reason. fucking thing. As you can see I am not posting from
>> google, which I no longer capitalize !!!! LOL
>>
>> Anyway, what characterizes ANY part for the transmission of audio is
>> linearity. Even though the gate of a MOSFET is driven wildly different
>> than the base of a BPT, linearity of gain fro the very small signal to
>> the very large signal is the prime. We used to look at the hfe and HFE
>> gain curves of bipolars in the old days, not it is different.
>>
>> Any kinds of spurious shit like oscillations would be no good in
>> switcxhers as well. the thing is, switchers somethimes have a gain curve
>> that is like, made to be on or off.
>>
>> An audio transistor must operate in the analog range, that means the
>> gain curve should be as flat as possible through the operating current
>> range.
>>
>> The same is true of a MOSFET.
>>
>
> or on rereading . If an audio application can tolerate a certain amount
> of cross-over distortion and general harmonic distortion then there is
> no difference in powerfet useage type , up to some power level where
> these distortions become too apparent.
I learned what I needed to know to rebuild a fried Ampeg SVT3Pro. 4 [ea]
irfp9240s 4 [ea] irfp240s. Will oscillate itself to death. Must use a
scope and a light bulb current limiter to detect sudden current surging
due to rf feeding back. I think Vishay has some linear application notes
for these MOSFETs. They can be biased for very tiny crossover notch, but
the spec is bias for 800ma at the AC mains with no signal. Not terribly
efficient. But it's a bass guitar amp.
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 6:30 pm
From: mroberds@att.net
Shaun <stereobuff07@gmail.com> wrote:
> When I did similar tests, I found the order of magnitude was right,
> but the result depended on the shape and volume of the mass of water
> and position in the oven. [...]
>
> Wonder what the "official" water configuration is when they determine
> the spec?
I don't know about a US Federal Trade Commission (or other agency, or
equivalent in other countries) test procedure; there probably is one but
I don't know it.
I know that older GE microwave ovens, in the little service information
sheet that was folded up inside the oven, gave directions on the test, a
GE part number for a beaker you were supposed to use, and I think a
third-party part number for the thermometer you were supposed to use to
measure the water temperature before and after. I think the water level
was marked on the beaker, and the service sheet said to put it right in
the middle of the oven. You didn't boil it, just heated it for a fixed
amount of time.
If I remember right, the criteria was something like "if the oven
produced between X and Y degrees temperature rise in the water, it's
within spec" - it didn't give you an answer in watts, just an acceptable
temperature range for that particular model oven.
Matt Roberds
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Test post for Termey
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 7:11 pm
From: Jeff Urban
Now I am using Thunderbird though aeio or whatever it is. When it works,
google works. When it doesn't work, neither does google.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 7:39 pm
From: John G
It happens that Jeff Urban formulated :
> Now I am using Thunderbird though aeio or whatever it is. When it works,
> google works. When it doesn't work, neither does google.
That would idicate to most people that your link to the world was down.
Either At your place or the connection company or the ISP?? B-)
--
John G
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 11:46 pm
From: Jeff Urban
Sorry to be a pain. This thread will have to serve as my tester right
now until I find out what's going on.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Al madinah international university
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e41d36878fe8e8c7?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 4:49 am
From: marketing@mediu.ws
Al madinah international university
MR/ Mrs
• Al madinah international university which win dependence Malaysian Ministry of Higher Education Malaysia (MOHE) and also winning the adoption of all academic programs and courses, the university that are approved by the Malaysian funds and private academy, which deals with quality control and efficiency Academy, known for short as [MQA ] to congratulate you on the occasion of the new academic February year – 2014 . Its pleasure to tell you that the university opening apply for university colleges.
The following colleges :
* Faculty of Islamic Sciences
* Faculty of languages
* Faculty of Computer and Information Technology.
*Faculty of education .
* Faculty of Finance and Management.
*Language center
*Faculty of engineering
The university offer :
• Bachelor degree
• Master degree
• PHD degree
Both online and on campus learning for more information you can visit
http://www.mediu.edu.my/ar/admissions/requirments
for more information about Bachelor degree
http://www.mediu.edu.my/ar/admissions/undergraduateprograms
for more information about master degree
http://www.mediu.edu.my/ar/admissions/postgraduateprograms
Best Regard
Al madinah international university
//www.mediu.edu.my/ar/
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sumvision SV 1000 recording DVD
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e9cc608c8f3312a4?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 2:24 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:la3dir$5hi$1@dont-email.me...
> Burnt and burst SMPS supervisor on this otherwise no-name and little
> chance Chinese thing. As laser and motor/s in the DVD deck and heatsink
> bonded to a video chip a reasonable power draw.
> But the SMPS IC , in a conventional 8 pin DIP package also contains the Tx
> driver transistor. So air gap under the IC and reverse side of pcb
> enlarged pad of pcb-copper as some sort of vain attempt at heatsink.
> Thermal connection to this is via just pins 4 and 5 combined in normal
> soldering , connected to the Tx. There is a hole through the pcb as though
> for some sort of clip to go perhaps top and bottom of the IC and bolted
> through to this under pad but no sign of anything having been fitted
> there, no deformation of the tinning over the pad around the hole. Turning
> over the unit and shaking over paper meant the blasted away top part ,
> mainly, of the IC emerged but no clip at all.
> Is it possible to have combined supervisor and driver transistor in an
> 8pin DIP package with no heatsink tab provision? or are there combined
> SMPS TX with internal driver transistor buried in the base?
> Also ps supply provision marked on pcb ac 85V - 250V
> IC logi i in a reversed D
> marked in 3 lines ICE 2?26 maybe more numbers, ? maybe a 4
> logo then 0 and more
> XK4.. probably more numbers
> probable pinning
> p1 0.1uF to 0V
> p2 to optocoupler
> p3 over current sense
> p4-p5 to Tx low side
> p6 n/c
> p7 supply <25V
> p8 0V
>
SMPS controller ICs with the letters "ICE" as the first part of their type
number are quite common. Such ICs are often coupled directly to a power FET
switching element, but are just as commonly connected directly to a small
SMPS Tx, particularly when it is a standby supply. I have always been amazed
that these chips can stand the better part of 400 volts across their
internal FET, and that it can supply enough current to drive the Tx
directly. I guess the thermal issues are dictated by how good the RDSon of
the internal device is. The closer it is to zero ohms, the lower the
dissipation, and some these days are pretty damn close to zero for all
practical purposes.
Arfa
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 6 2014 12:32 am
From: N_Cook
On 05/01/2014 22:24, Arfa Daily wrote:
>
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:la3dir$5hi$1@dont-email.me...
>> Burnt and burst SMPS supervisor on this otherwise no-name and little
>> chance Chinese thing. As laser and motor/s in the DVD deck and
>> heatsink bonded to a video chip a reasonable power draw.
>> But the SMPS IC , in a conventional 8 pin DIP package also contains
>> the Tx driver transistor. So air gap under the IC and reverse side of
>> pcb enlarged pad of pcb-copper as some sort of vain attempt at
>> heatsink. Thermal connection to this is via just pins 4 and 5 combined
>> in normal soldering , connected to the Tx. There is a hole through the
>> pcb as though for some sort of clip to go perhaps top and bottom of
>> the IC and bolted through to this under pad but no sign of anything
>> having been fitted there, no deformation of the tinning over the pad
>> around the hole. Turning over the unit and shaking over paper meant
>> the blasted away top part , mainly, of the IC emerged but no clip at all.
>> Is it possible to have combined supervisor and driver transistor in an
>> 8pin DIP package with no heatsink tab provision? or are there combined
>> SMPS TX with internal driver transistor buried in the base?
>> Also ps supply provision marked on pcb ac 85V - 250V
>> IC logi i in a reversed D
>> marked in 3 lines ICE 2?26 maybe more numbers, ? maybe a 4
>> logo then 0 and more
>> XK4.. probably more numbers
>> probable pinning
>> p1 0.1uF to 0V
>> p2 to optocoupler
>> p3 over current sense
>> p4-p5 to Tx low side
>> p6 n/c
>> p7 supply <25V
>> p8 0V
>>
>
> SMPS controller ICs with the letters "ICE" as the first part of their
> type number are quite common. Such ICs are often coupled directly to a
> power FET switching element, but are just as commonly connected directly
> to a small SMPS Tx, particularly when it is a standby supply. I have
> always been amazed that these chips can stand the better part of 400
> volts across their internal FET, and that it can supply enough current
> to drive the Tx directly. I guess the thermal issues are dictated by how
> good the RDSon of the internal device is. The closer it is to zero ohms,
> the lower the dissipation, and some these days are pretty damn close to
> zero for all practical purposes.
>
> Arfa
Its the first time I've come across such a situation, still does not
look right. For something like a set-top box with no motors or laser and
a graphics processor that does not require a heatsink, I could see it
was possible
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 6 2014 12:49 am
From: N_Cook
On 05/01/2014 22:24, Arfa Daily wrote:
>
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:la3dir$5hi$1@dont-email.me...
>> Burnt and burst SMPS supervisor on this otherwise no-name and little
>> chance Chinese thing. As laser and motor/s in the DVD deck and
>> heatsink bonded to a video chip a reasonable power draw.
>> But the SMPS IC , in a conventional 8 pin DIP package also contains
>> the Tx driver transistor. So air gap under the IC and reverse side of
>> pcb enlarged pad of pcb-copper as some sort of vain attempt at
>> heatsink. Thermal connection to this is via just pins 4 and 5 combined
>> in normal soldering , connected to the Tx. There is a hole through the
>> pcb as though for some sort of clip to go perhaps top and bottom of
>> the IC and bolted through to this under pad but no sign of anything
>> having been fitted there, no deformation of the tinning over the pad
>> around the hole. Turning over the unit and shaking over paper meant
>> the blasted away top part , mainly, of the IC emerged but no clip at all.
>> Is it possible to have combined supervisor and driver transistor in an
>> 8pin DIP package with no heatsink tab provision? or are there combined
>> SMPS TX with internal driver transistor buried in the base?
>> Also ps supply provision marked on pcb ac 85V - 250V
>> IC logi i in a reversed D
>> marked in 3 lines ICE 2?26 maybe more numbers, ? maybe a 4
>> logo then 0 and more
>> XK4.. probably more numbers
>> probable pinning
>> p1 0.1uF to 0V
>> p2 to optocoupler
>> p3 over current sense
>> p4-p5 to Tx low side
>> p6 n/c
>> p7 supply <25V
>> p8 0V
>>
>
> SMPS controller ICs with the letters "ICE" as the first part of their
> type number are quite common. Such ICs are often coupled directly to a
> power FET switching element, but are just as commonly connected directly
> to a small SMPS Tx, particularly when it is a standby supply. I have
> always been amazed that these chips can stand the better part of 400
> volts across their internal FET, and that it can supply enough current
> to drive the Tx directly. I guess the thermal issues are dictated by how
> good the RDSon of the internal device is. The closer it is to zero ohms,
> the lower the dissipation, and some these days are pretty damn close to
> zero for all practical purposes.
>
> Arfa
courtesy of alldatasheet with "start with" option
ICE2 starting it seems its like a
ICE2A265 with a different logo, same pinning on p4/5/6 at least
large datasheet , will have to read it when I get some time
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are You Looking For Fridge Repair Service?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/67491ea6a7ce1fa6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 5 2014 9:49 pm
From: Jade Birch
Ice cube fridge repair have been doing the business for many years. They provide low cost service and thus have reputation in the market with huge number of satisfied customers. If you want to more please visit http://icecubefridgerepair.com.au/
==============================================================================
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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair - 26 new messages in 5 topics - digest
sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Open SSID for HP printers - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
* FUCK OFF Liebermann NUT CASE - 11 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
* Test post for Termey - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
* Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current - 10
messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
* The Economic System of Islam - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/98dfdf2fc7a7e805?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Open SSID for HP printers
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 4:51 pm
From: Michael Black
On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
> of documents to the printer(s)?
>
>
Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
break into your house.
Michael
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 7:54 pm
From: Paul Drahn
On 1/2/2014 4:51 PM, Michael Black wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>
>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>
>>
> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
> break into your house.
>
> Michael
>
True, but they can print pornographic pictures for your kids viewing
pleasure.
Paul
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 12:15 am
From: Leif Neland
Paul Drahn forklarede den 03-01-2014:
> On 1/2/2014 4:51 PM, Michael Black wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>>
>>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>>
>>>
>> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
>> break into your house.
>>
>> Michael
>>
> True, but they can print pornographic pictures for your kids viewing
> pleasure.
>
Or, like a glazier hires a punk kid to break windows, an office supply
dealer can hire somebody to use all the toner and paper :-)
Leif
--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: FUCK OFF Liebermann NUT CASE
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 4:51 pm
From: "Shaun"
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bik2r7FlgbdU1@mid.individual.net...
"Jeff Liebermann = retarded asshole "
>
>
>
>>>>> Ok, I yield to a higher authority. Heating power is average power:
>>>>> <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
>>>>> However that doesn't stop nearly everyone from specifying RMS power.
>>>
>>>> ** There is no such quantity as " RMS power " if you are so stupid as
>>>> to
>>>>interpret the term literally.
>>>
>>> Which term should be interpreted non-literally?
>
>>** The term " RMS power " of course -
>
> I thought ...
** No you didn't - cos you are incapable of thought.
The quotation marks made my words quite *impossible* to misinterpret.
>>> Very good. But since there doesn't seem to be any correlation with
>>> heating power (despite using a thermocouple to do the measuring) and
>>> RMS volts or watts,
>>
>>** Quite wrong - there is a very close connection.
>
( snip more TOTALLY IRRELEVANT SHIT )
Leiberman - you are the stupidest, most retarded, constantly lying fuckwit
on the NG.
Get cancer and fucking DIE !
Hey Phil;
I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any details
except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I have
compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know if
anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
readings matched.
I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you have
to buy an RMS meter.
Shaun
== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 5:04 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Shaun"
>
> I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
> shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
> the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
> Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any
> details except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I
> have compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know
> if anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
> readings matched.
** No fooling...........
> I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you
> have to buy an RMS meter.
** That sort of nonsense *would* be said by someone who either owned an RMS
meter or was selling them.
Thermal RMS meters are virtually obsolete these days and have been replaced
by cheap analogue RMS to DC computation ICs in many hand held DMMs OR by
digital sampling computation in most DSOs.
The hand held kind have a limited measurement bandwidth compared to the
latter.
Depends what your needs are.
As Clint Eastwood might have said -
" Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
.... Phil
== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:35 am
From: dave
On 01/02/2014 04:07 PM, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
> In article <B4GdnYZ19saY4VjPnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> ricketzz@earthlink.net says...
>>
>> On 01/02/2014 04:05 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>> "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
>>> news:nsj9c95bm2ec1giaju7tj0gc43ne25s007@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
>>> On Pg 6 it says:
>>> "The RMS value of power is not the equivalent heating power and,
>>> in fact, it doesn't represent any useful physical quantity."
>>> and:
>>> "The RMS power is different than the average power, and therefore
>>> isn?t the equivalent heating power. In fact, the RMS value of the
>>> power doesn?t represent anything useful."
>>
>>> I remember a Popular Electronics quiz with questions about how a
>>> voltmeter (at that time, a moving-coil device) would read, depending on
>>> the waveform supplied. A key point was that the deflection was
>>> proportional to the average current flowing through the coil, but the
>>> meter was usually calibrated for the RMS value of a sinewave.
>>
>> Why do you keep quoting notes from Llewelen? He wrote a modeling program
>> for wire antennas. We are talking about FETs.
>>
>> I think AVG = RMS only if waveform is pure sinewave. Otherwise you must
>> use calorimeter or thermocouple to find true RMS.
>
> AVG and RMS is not the same with sine waves..
>
Then they never are the same?
== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:41 am
From: dave
On 01/02/2014 05:04 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>
> "Shaun"
>>
>> I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
>> shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
>> the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
>> Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any
>> details except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I
>> have compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know
>> if anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
>> readings matched.
>
> ** No fooling...........
>
>> I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you
>> have to buy an RMS meter.
>
> ** That sort of nonsense *would* be said by someone who either owned an RMS
> meter or was selling them.
>
> Thermal RMS meters are virtually obsolete these days and have been replaced
> by cheap analogue RMS to DC computation ICs in many hand held DMMs OR by
> digital sampling computation in most DSOs.
>
> The hand held kind have a limited measurement bandwidth compared to the
> latter.
>
> Depends what your needs are.
>
> As Clint Eastwood might have said -
>
> " Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
>
>
>
>
> .... Phil
>
In television you calibrate the output power metering by operating into
a full power liquid cooled dummy load and measuring the temperature of
the coolant.
Using computational methods on amplifier input parameters is not the
preferred way to determine power (an efficiency factor must be assumed)
and you must ask the FCC for special permission to use the "direct method".
Dave the Re-Re
== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 9:10 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"
William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
> news:quc9c95b8el5pqevbftgm87mqs5cf8akrh@4ax.com...
>
> > OK, I yield to a higher authority. Heating power is average power:
> > <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
> > However that doesn't stop nearly everyone from specifying
> > RMS power.
>
> Unfortunately, no.
>
> > So, why do people buy true-RMS voltmeters? If they don't measure
> > anything useful, why bother?
>
> A fair question. Apparently, there was a time when AC power had a significant
> percentage of harmonics (perhaps it still does), and engineers wanted to know
> its "true" heating effect.
This is my favorite True RMS meter. Section three is a description
of how it works. The AC power line is anything but a clean sine wave.
Switching power supplies and older electronics with a single diode in
the power supply distort it, even more. The single diode causes a DC
component on your power, which confuses a simple analog meter. Three
phase is even worse, with all the harmonics on the neutral. There were a
lot of fires in office buildings and factories after the PC became
widespread. It used to be to code to use a smaller neutral on three
phase, than the tree phase lines. The harmonics caused the neutral to
overheat and in some cases, started fires.
I like this Fluke for many reasons, including the ability to read to
.01 dB variations in a signal. I used one to test the -3dB points on
video filters, up to 20 MHz. For anything higher I used a Boonton 9200
RF voltmeter.
Before someone smarts off, Video isn't just television. We produced
equipment with selectable bandwidth from DC>10 KHz to DC>40 MHz in 16
customer specified bandwidths. SDI digital video was 270 MHz, and HD is
even higher.
<http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/Fluke/Fluke_8920A_8921A_True_RMS_Voltmeter_Operation_and%20_Service_Manual_Oct78.pdf>
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:23 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"dave the autistic fool " <ricketzz@earthlink.net>
>
>> As Clint Eastwood might have said -
>>
>> " Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
>
>
> In television you calibrate the output power metering by operating into a
> full power liquid cooled dummy load and measuring the temperature of the
> coolant.
** That would be for the actual transmitter on VHF or UHF - right ?
Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF
power of a microwave oven.
Got SFA to do with the topic.
.... Phil
== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:33 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT "
> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
> capability.
** No it was not.
> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
> waveform causes more heating.
** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
application.
It is only related to the device itself.
Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
.... Phil
== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 5:43 am
From: dave
On 01/03/2014 07:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT"
>
>
>> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
>> capability.
>
> ** No it was not.
>
>
>> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
>> waveform causes more heating.
>
>
> ** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
> application.
>
> It is only related to the device itself.
>
> Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
> mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
>
>
>
> .... Phil
Odd. I thought Maximum values were on the data sheet. Anyway, a MOSFET
used as a switch makes less heat so it can have a higher current rating
than one used class AB.
== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 6:43 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"
dave wrote:
>
> On 01/03/2014 07:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> > "dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT"
> >
> >
> >> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
> >> capability.
> >
> > ** No it was not.
> >
> >
> >> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
> >> waveform causes more heating.
> >
> >
> > ** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
> > application.
> >
> > It is only related to the device itself.
> >
> > Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
> > mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
> >
> >
> >
> > .... Phil
>
> Odd. I thought Maximum values were on the data sheet. Anyway, a MOSFET
> used as a switch makes less heat so it can have a higher current rating
> than one used class AB.
'Safe Operating Area' is more important than individual maximums.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:08 am
From: Leif Neland
Phil Allison skrev:
>
> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF power
> of a microwave oven.
Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power
on.
Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it
to boil.
Preferably in a microwave-safe plastic container.
I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
Leif
--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:22 am
From: mike
On 1/4/2014 8:08 AM, Leif Neland wrote:
> Phil Allison skrev:
>>
>> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power
>> RF power of a microwave oven.
>
> Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power on.
>
> Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it
> to boil.
>
> Preferably in a microwave-safe plastic container.
>
> I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
>
> Leif
>
When I did similar tests, I found the order of magnitude was right,
but the result depended on the shape and volume of the mass of water
and position in the oven.
It's easy to imagine that the microwaves bounce around and most of the
energy ends up
in the water. Wonder how accurate that model?
Wonder what the "official" water configuration is when they determine
the spec?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Test post for Termey
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 10:25 am
From: jurb6006@gmail.com
On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 4:52:09 PM UTC-5, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am testing this from Firefox now.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 1:55 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
male-to-male cable.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
(to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
current.
Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 2:09 pm
From: "Colin Horsley"
"Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
: How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
:
: For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
: male-to-male cable.
: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
:
: If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
: recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
: (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
:
: Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
:
: Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
: are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
:
: Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
: current.
:
: Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
:
: NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
: determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
: is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
Detector "
Colin
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 3:09 pm
From: sms
On 1/3/2014 2:09 PM, Colin Horsley wrote:
> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
> :
> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
> : male-to-male cable.
> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
> :
> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
> :
> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
> :
> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
> :
> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
> : current.
> :
> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
> :
> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "
or
<http://dx.com/p/usb-av-usb-power-current-voltage-tester-translucent-blue-silver-235090>
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 4:24 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "
Hi Colin,
That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
the inner wires to a series of screws.
What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
meter leads.
But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 5:00 pm
From: mike
On 1/3/2014 3:09 PM, sms wrote:
> On 1/3/2014 2:09 PM, Colin Horsley wrote:
>> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
>> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
>> :
>> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
>> : male-to-male cable.
>> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
>> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
>> :
>> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
>> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
>> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
>> :
>> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
>> :
>> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
>> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
>> :
>> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
>> : current.
>> :
>> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
>> :
>> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
>> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
>> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>>
>> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current
>> voltage tester
>> Detector "
>
> or
> <http://dx.com/p/usb-av-usb-power-current-voltage-tester-translucent-blue-silver-235090>
>
>
>
Cool...I was ready to order one until I saw that the data doesn't pass thru.
WTF? The connectors are almost touching, why no data?
Kinda hard to measure the drain of a disk drive in action when it won't
come out of sleep.
Why would you not connect the data unless there were problems?
Anybody bridged the data? Results?
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 5:05 pm
From: mike
On 1/3/2014 4:24 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>
>> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>> Detector "
>
> Hi Colin,
> That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
> the inner wires to a series of screws.
>
> What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
> piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>
> Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
> meter leads.
>
> But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
> out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>
That works if you never want any data thru it.
Better would be to cut the power wire and run that thru a meter.
Get out your ohms law calculator and verify that your meter resistance
won't defeat you.
Leave all the high speed data wires and ground alone.
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 9:46 pm
From: "Colin Horsley"
"Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
: On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
:
: > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
: > Detector "
:
: Hi Colin,
: That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
: the inner wires to a series of screws.
:
: What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
: piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
:
: Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
: meter leads.
:
: But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
: out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
:
Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
Works very well.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
Colin
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 7:55 am
From: Lab Lover
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:46:46 +1100, "Colin Horsley" <horsley-spam@westnet.com.au>
wrote:
>
>"Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
>news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
>: On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>:
>: > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>: > Detector "
>:
>: Hi Colin,
>: That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
>: the inner wires to a series of screws.
>:
>: What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
>: piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>:
>: Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
>: meter leads.
>:
>: But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
>: out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>:
>
>Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
>I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
>Works very well.
>
>http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
>
>Colin
>
>
Interesting looking device. I wonder how accurate it is? Kind of expensive if
you ask me.
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:04 am
From: mike
On 1/4/2014 7:55 AM, Lab Lover wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:46:46 +1100, "Colin Horsley" <horsley-spam@westnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
>> : On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>> :
>> : > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>> : > Detector "
>> :
>> : Hi Colin,
>> : That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
>> : the inner wires to a series of screws.
>> :
>> : What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
>> : piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>> :
>> : Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
>> : meter leads.
>> :
>> : But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
>> : out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>> :
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
>> I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
>> Works very well.
>>
>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>
> Interesting looking device. I wonder how accurate it is?
Other than the numbers on the first page of the link?
Kind of expensive if
> you ask me.
>
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:21 am
From: "Alexander Y. Sure"
On 04/01/14 06:09, Colin Horsley wrote:
> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
> :
> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
> : male-to-male cable.
> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
> :
> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
> :
> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
> :
> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
> :
> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
> : current.
> :
> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
> :
> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "
>
>
> Colin
>
>
...or here:
http://tinyurl.com/lmvbyl9
About 5 US$ with free shipping to USA.
Werner
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Economic System of Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/98dfdf2fc7a7e805?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 5:38 am
From: bv4bv4bv4@gmail.com
The Economic System of Islam
1-An introduction to the principles Islam has legislated to guide the economic system of society. Part 1: The sources from which the laws that guide economical activity are derived.
2-The Ideological Basis of Economic Activity and the general principles by which they are guided
Introduction
As a complete way of life, Islam has provided guidelines and rules for every sphere of life and society. Naturally, a functioning economic system is vital for a healthy society, as the consumption of goods and services, and the facilitation of this by a common medium of exchange, play a major role in allowing people to realize their material and other goals in life.
Islam has set some standards, based on justice and practicality, for such economic systems to be established. These standards aim to prevent the enmity that often occurs between different socioeconomic sections. Of course, it is true that the gathering of money concerns almost every human being who participates in transactions with others. Yet, while these standards recognize money as being among the most important elements in society, they do not lose sight of the fact that its position is secondary to the real purpose of human existence, which is the worship of God.
An Islamic economic system is not necessarily concerned with the precise amount of financial income and expenditure, imports and exports, and other economic statistics. While such matters are no doubt important, Islam is more concerned with the spirit of the economic system.
A society that implements Islamic laws and promotes Islamic manners will find that it bring together all the systems – social, economic, and so forth – that it deals with. Islam teaches that God has created provision for every person who He has brought to life. Therefore, the competition for natural resources that is presumed to exist among the nations of the world is an illusion. While the earth has sufficient bounty to satisfy the needs of mankind, the challenge for humans lies in discovering, extracting, processing, and distributing these resources to those who need them.
Islam consists of a set of beliefs which organizes the relationship between the individual and his Creator; between the person and other human beings; between the person and universe; and even the relationship of the person to himself. In that sense, Islam regulates human behavior, and one type of human behavior is economic behavior. Economic behavior is dealt by Muslims as a means of production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. In Islam, human behavior -whether in the economic area or others - is not value free; nor is it value neutral. It is connected with the ideological foundation of the faith.
The Sources of Islamic Economics
The fundamental sources of Islam - the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet[1] - provide guidelines for economic behavior and a blueprint of how the economic system of a society should be organized. Therefore, the values and objectives of all "Islamic" economic systems must necessarily conform to, and comply with, the principles derived from these fundamental sources. The purpose of these articles is to outline the most salient characteristics of an economic system based on the fundamental sources of Islam. The focus here is on the principal features of the Islamic system.
The Islamic economic system is defined by a network of rules called the Shariah. The rules which are contained in the Shariah are both constitutive and regulative, meaning that they either lay the rules for the creation of economic entities and systems, as well the rules which regulate existing one. As an integral part of the revelation, the Shariah is the guide for human action which encompasses every aspect of life – spiritual, individual, social, political, cultural, and economic. It provides a scale by which all actions, whether on the part of the individual agents, society, and the state, are classified in regards to their legality. Thus there are five types of actions recognized, namely: obligatory; recommended; permissible; discouraged; and forbidden. This classification is also inclusive of economic behavior.
The basic source of the Shariah in Islam is the Quran and the Sunnah, which include all the necessary rules of the Shariah as guidance for mankind. The Sunnah further explains these rules by the practical application of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him. The expansion of the regulative rules of the Shariah and their extensions to new situations in later times was accomplished with the aid of consensus of the scholars, analogical reasoning - which derived rules by discerning an analogy between new problems and those existing in the primary sources - and finally, through textual reasoning of scholars specialized in the Shariah. These five sources - the Quran, the Sunnah, consensus of the scholars, analogical reasoning, and textual reasoning - constitute the components of the Shariah, and these components are also used as a basis for governing economic affairs.
Justice
In summary, we can say that the Islamic Economic system is based upon the notion of justice It is through justice that the existence of the rules governing the economic behavior of the individual and economic institutions in Islam can be understood. Justice in Islam is a multifaceted concept, and there several words exist to define it. The most common word in usage which refers to the overall concept of justice is the Arabic word "adl". This word and its many synonyms imply the concepts of "right", as equivalent to fairness, "putting things in their proper place", "equality", "equalizing", "balance", "temperance" and "moderation." In practice, justice is defined as acting in accordance with the Shariah, which, in turn, contains both substantive and procedural justice[2] covering economic issues. Substantive justice consists of those elements of justice contained in the substance of the Shariah, while procedural justice consists of rules of procedure assuring the attainment of justice contained in the substance of the Law. The notion of economic justice, and its attendant concept of distributive justice, [3] is particularly important as an identifying characteristic of the Islamic economic system. The rules governing permissible and forbidden economic behavior on the part of consumers, producers and government, as well as questions of property rights, and of the production and distribution of wealth, are all based on the Islamic view of justice.
The following topics will be discussed in the following articles:
(a) individual obligations, rights, and self-interest;
(b) property rights;
(c) importance of contracts;
(d) work and wealth;
(e) the concept of barakah;
(f) economic justice;
(g) prohibition of interest (riba);
(h) competition and cooperation; and
(i) the role of the state.
The Ideological Basis of Economic Activity
The ideological basis in Islam may be summarized into six basic principles:
The cornerstone is that everything has to start from the belief in God as the Creator, Lord, and Sovereign of the universe. This implies willingness to submit to God's will, to accept His guidance, and to have complete and unqualified servitude to Him. This means that Muslims - individually and collectively - should not imitate or emulate any other system if it differs from their particular principles, for example, the system of usury or interest.
The second basic principle is that Islam, as a religion, is a complete way of life; something that guides a person's life in all its aspects: the moral, social, ethical, economic, political, etc. All of these aspects are based on the guidance of God. Therefore, it is not a question of the person's acceptance of God's teaching in one matter and the refusal of acceptance in another. Everything has to be within that basic guidance.
"…And we have revealed to you in stages this book, a clarification of all things, a guidance, a mercy, and glad tidings…" (Quran 16:89)
A third principle is that God created human beings on earth as His trustees, which means that everyone is created to fulfill a certain responsibility on this earth. God has entrusted human beings with free will in order that they live their lives according to the moral and ethical values that He Himself provided. In addition, Islam provides an opportunity in material progress, thereby combining moral, social, and material progress, all interlinked in harmony.
The fourth principle is that God, in order to help humankind to fulfill the responsibility of trusteeship, has made everything in this universe subservient to them. There are many verses in the Quran that suggest this meaning, such as:
"God is He Who made subservient to you the sea that the ships may run therein by His command, and that you may seek of His grace, and that you may give thanks." (Quran 45:12)
This does not mean, however, that humans are given free reign to use and abuse the resources God has provided us however we choose. Rather, there are many verses that urge humankind to harness the various resources that God has made available to them on this earth responsibly. Humans are encouraged to enjoy of the good things that God has created, but they are to do so within the boundaries that He has given. Doing so is not regarded as sinful as long as it follows His path and does not transgress His limits. God says:
"It is He Who produces gardens, with trellises and without, and dates, and tilth with produce of all kinds, and olives and pomegranates, similar (in kind) and different (in variety): eat of their fruit in their season, but render the dues that are proper on the day that the harvest is gathered. But waste not by excess: for God loves not those who waste." (Quran 6:141)
The fifth principle is the principle of accountability in the Hereafter. God has given human beings trusteeship and resources. This means that every single person will be questioned on the Day of Judgment as to how he or she behaved whilst enjoying his or her earthly life. This, of course, includes our economic behavior. God says:
"And then on that Day (the Day of Resurrection) you will be called to account for every comfort and delight [we bestowed upon you]." (Quran 102:8)
The sixth principle is that the variation in wealth among people in itself does not give a person either inferiority or superiority. Rather, poverty and affluence are in the total control of God Who, out of His Infinite Justice and Wisdom, has specified these things for whom he chooses.
"Indeed God increases provision to whom He pleases and straitens it [in regards to others]…" (Quran 13:26)
Affluence, like poverty, is also seen as a trial from God, one through which it is seen what one will do with their wealth – indulge oneself or use constructively in ways legislated in the religion, God says:
"Your wealth and your children are only a trial, whereas God! With Him is a great reward (Paradise)."(Quran 64:15)
After being bestowed with numerous gifts and bounties and a kingdom incomparable to any other on the earth, God in the Quran narrates that Solomon said:
"…This is from the bounties of my Lord, to test me whether I will be thankful or ungrateful…" (Quran 27:40)
God is not concerned with the amount of wealth a person may have amassed, their beauty or color, but rather, His measure of honor is the piety of the hearts. God says:
"On humankind! Indeed We created you from a male and female, and we made you different nations and tribes, that you may come to know one other. Indeed the most honored amongst you are the most God-conscious." (Quran 49:13)
The Prophet also said:
"Indeed God is not concerned with your appearances nor your wealth, but rather your hearts and deeds." (Saheeh Muslim)
As one can immediately surmise from these principles that the Islamic economic system is radically different from others, due to the difference of the values upon which it is based. In a capitalist society, one may see certain rules of economics which take precedence over moral and ethical values due to the intrinsic nature and values of that system. The same may be seen in communist, socialist and other societies as well. From the principles mentioned in these articles does the Islamic system of economics spring, striking balance between personal benefit and the benefit of society as a whole, as well as mundane profits and spiritual gains, all which ensure that one gain the Pleasure of the Lord of the Worlds.
[1] The Sunnah is general body of narrations of the speech, deeds, and tacit approvals of the Prophet.
[2] "Substantive justice means reaching the 'right' result. Procedural justice means getting the result in the 'right' way." (A speech entitled "Effective Arbitration Techniques in a Global Context" delivered by the Secretary for Justice of Hong Kong ,Ms Elsie Leung)
[3] "Normative principles designed to allocate goods in limited supply relative to demand." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
(http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/justice-distributive/)
http://www.islamhouse.com/429666/en/en/articles/The_Economic_System_of_Islam
Thank you
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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en
sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Open SSID for HP printers - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
* FUCK OFF Liebermann NUT CASE - 11 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
* Test post for Termey - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
* Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current - 10
messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
* The Economic System of Islam - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/98dfdf2fc7a7e805?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Open SSID for HP printers
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 4:51 pm
From: Michael Black
On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
> of documents to the printer(s)?
>
>
Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
break into your house.
Michael
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 7:54 pm
From: Paul Drahn
On 1/2/2014 4:51 PM, Michael Black wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>
>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>
>>
> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
> break into your house.
>
> Michael
>
True, but they can print pornographic pictures for your kids viewing
pleasure.
Paul
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 12:15 am
From: Leif Neland
Paul Drahn forklarede den 03-01-2014:
> On 1/2/2014 4:51 PM, Michael Black wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>>
>>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>>
>>>
>> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
>> break into your house.
>>
>> Michael
>>
> True, but they can print pornographic pictures for your kids viewing
> pleasure.
>
Or, like a glazier hires a punk kid to break windows, an office supply
dealer can hire somebody to use all the toner and paper :-)
Leif
--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: FUCK OFF Liebermann NUT CASE
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 4:51 pm
From: "Shaun"
"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bik2r7FlgbdU1@mid.individual.net...
"Jeff Liebermann = retarded asshole "
>
>
>
>>>>> Ok, I yield to a higher authority. Heating power is average power:
>>>>> <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
>>>>> However that doesn't stop nearly everyone from specifying RMS power.
>>>
>>>> ** There is no such quantity as " RMS power " if you are so stupid as
>>>> to
>>>>interpret the term literally.
>>>
>>> Which term should be interpreted non-literally?
>
>>** The term " RMS power " of course -
>
> I thought ...
** No you didn't - cos you are incapable of thought.
The quotation marks made my words quite *impossible* to misinterpret.
>>> Very good. But since there doesn't seem to be any correlation with
>>> heating power (despite using a thermocouple to do the measuring) and
>>> RMS volts or watts,
>>
>>** Quite wrong - there is a very close connection.
>
( snip more TOTALLY IRRELEVANT SHIT )
Leiberman - you are the stupidest, most retarded, constantly lying fuckwit
on the NG.
Get cancer and fucking DIE !
Hey Phil;
I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any details
except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I have
compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know if
anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
readings matched.
I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you have
to buy an RMS meter.
Shaun
== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 5:04 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Shaun"
>
> I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
> shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
> the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
> Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any
> details except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I
> have compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know
> if anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
> readings matched.
** No fooling...........
> I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you
> have to buy an RMS meter.
** That sort of nonsense *would* be said by someone who either owned an RMS
meter or was selling them.
Thermal RMS meters are virtually obsolete these days and have been replaced
by cheap analogue RMS to DC computation ICs in many hand held DMMs OR by
digital sampling computation in most DSOs.
The hand held kind have a limited measurement bandwidth compared to the
latter.
Depends what your needs are.
As Clint Eastwood might have said -
" Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
.... Phil
== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:35 am
From: dave
On 01/02/2014 04:07 PM, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
> In article <B4GdnYZ19saY4VjPnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> ricketzz@earthlink.net says...
>>
>> On 01/02/2014 04:05 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>> "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
>>> news:nsj9c95bm2ec1giaju7tj0gc43ne25s007@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
>>> On Pg 6 it says:
>>> "The RMS value of power is not the equivalent heating power and,
>>> in fact, it doesn't represent any useful physical quantity."
>>> and:
>>> "The RMS power is different than the average power, and therefore
>>> isn?t the equivalent heating power. In fact, the RMS value of the
>>> power doesn?t represent anything useful."
>>
>>> I remember a Popular Electronics quiz with questions about how a
>>> voltmeter (at that time, a moving-coil device) would read, depending on
>>> the waveform supplied. A key point was that the deflection was
>>> proportional to the average current flowing through the coil, but the
>>> meter was usually calibrated for the RMS value of a sinewave.
>>
>> Why do you keep quoting notes from Llewelen? He wrote a modeling program
>> for wire antennas. We are talking about FETs.
>>
>> I think AVG = RMS only if waveform is pure sinewave. Otherwise you must
>> use calorimeter or thermocouple to find true RMS.
>
> AVG and RMS is not the same with sine waves..
>
Then they never are the same?
== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:41 am
From: dave
On 01/02/2014 05:04 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>
> "Shaun"
>>
>> I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
>> shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
>> the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
>> Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any
>> details except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I
>> have compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know
>> if anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
>> readings matched.
>
> ** No fooling...........
>
>> I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you
>> have to buy an RMS meter.
>
> ** That sort of nonsense *would* be said by someone who either owned an RMS
> meter or was selling them.
>
> Thermal RMS meters are virtually obsolete these days and have been replaced
> by cheap analogue RMS to DC computation ICs in many hand held DMMs OR by
> digital sampling computation in most DSOs.
>
> The hand held kind have a limited measurement bandwidth compared to the
> latter.
>
> Depends what your needs are.
>
> As Clint Eastwood might have said -
>
> " Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
>
>
>
>
> .... Phil
>
In television you calibrate the output power metering by operating into
a full power liquid cooled dummy load and measuring the temperature of
the coolant.
Using computational methods on amplifier input parameters is not the
preferred way to determine power (an efficiency factor must be assumed)
and you must ask the FCC for special permission to use the "direct method".
Dave the Re-Re
== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 9:10 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"
William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
> news:quc9c95b8el5pqevbftgm87mqs5cf8akrh@4ax.com...
>
> > OK, I yield to a higher authority. Heating power is average power:
> > <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
> > However that doesn't stop nearly everyone from specifying
> > RMS power.
>
> Unfortunately, no.
>
> > So, why do people buy true-RMS voltmeters? If they don't measure
> > anything useful, why bother?
>
> A fair question. Apparently, there was a time when AC power had a significant
> percentage of harmonics (perhaps it still does), and engineers wanted to know
> its "true" heating effect.
This is my favorite True RMS meter. Section three is a description
of how it works. The AC power line is anything but a clean sine wave.
Switching power supplies and older electronics with a single diode in
the power supply distort it, even more. The single diode causes a DC
component on your power, which confuses a simple analog meter. Three
phase is even worse, with all the harmonics on the neutral. There were a
lot of fires in office buildings and factories after the PC became
widespread. It used to be to code to use a smaller neutral on three
phase, than the tree phase lines. The harmonics caused the neutral to
overheat and in some cases, started fires.
I like this Fluke for many reasons, including the ability to read to
.01 dB variations in a signal. I used one to test the -3dB points on
video filters, up to 20 MHz. For anything higher I used a Boonton 9200
RF voltmeter.
Before someone smarts off, Video isn't just television. We produced
equipment with selectable bandwidth from DC>10 KHz to DC>40 MHz in 16
customer specified bandwidths. SDI digital video was 270 MHz, and HD is
even higher.
<http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/Fluke/Fluke_8920A_8921A_True_RMS_Voltmeter_Operation_and%20_Service_Manual_Oct78.pdf>
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:23 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"dave the autistic fool " <ricketzz@earthlink.net>
>
>> As Clint Eastwood might have said -
>>
>> " Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
>
>
> In television you calibrate the output power metering by operating into a
> full power liquid cooled dummy load and measuring the temperature of the
> coolant.
** That would be for the actual transmitter on VHF or UHF - right ?
Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF
power of a microwave oven.
Got SFA to do with the topic.
.... Phil
== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:33 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT "
> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
> capability.
** No it was not.
> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
> waveform causes more heating.
** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
application.
It is only related to the device itself.
Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
.... Phil
== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 5:43 am
From: dave
On 01/03/2014 07:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT"
>
>
>> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
>> capability.
>
> ** No it was not.
>
>
>> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
>> waveform causes more heating.
>
>
> ** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
> application.
>
> It is only related to the device itself.
>
> Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
> mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
>
>
>
> .... Phil
Odd. I thought Maximum values were on the data sheet. Anyway, a MOSFET
used as a switch makes less heat so it can have a higher current rating
than one used class AB.
== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 6:43 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"
dave wrote:
>
> On 01/03/2014 07:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> > "dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT"
> >
> >
> >> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
> >> capability.
> >
> > ** No it was not.
> >
> >
> >> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
> >> waveform causes more heating.
> >
> >
> > ** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
> > application.
> >
> > It is only related to the device itself.
> >
> > Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
> > mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
> >
> >
> >
> > .... Phil
>
> Odd. I thought Maximum values were on the data sheet. Anyway, a MOSFET
> used as a switch makes less heat so it can have a higher current rating
> than one used class AB.
'Safe Operating Area' is more important than individual maximums.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:08 am
From: Leif Neland
Phil Allison skrev:
>
> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF power
> of a microwave oven.
Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power
on.
Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it
to boil.
Preferably in a microwave-safe plastic container.
I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
Leif
--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.
== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:22 am
From: mike
On 1/4/2014 8:08 AM, Leif Neland wrote:
> Phil Allison skrev:
>>
>> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power
>> RF power of a microwave oven.
>
> Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power on.
>
> Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it
> to boil.
>
> Preferably in a microwave-safe plastic container.
>
> I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
>
> Leif
>
When I did similar tests, I found the order of magnitude was right,
but the result depended on the shape and volume of the mass of water
and position in the oven.
It's easy to imagine that the microwaves bounce around and most of the
energy ends up
in the water. Wonder how accurate that model?
Wonder what the "official" water configuration is when they determine
the spec?
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Test post for Termey
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 10:25 am
From: jurb6006@gmail.com
On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 4:52:09 PM UTC-5, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am testing this from Firefox now.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 1:55 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
male-to-male cable.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
(to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
current.
Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 2:09 pm
From: "Colin Horsley"
"Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
: How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
:
: For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
: male-to-male cable.
: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
:
: If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
: recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
: (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
:
: Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
:
: Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
: are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
:
: Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
: current.
:
: Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
:
: NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
: determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
: is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
Detector "
Colin
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 3:09 pm
From: sms
On 1/3/2014 2:09 PM, Colin Horsley wrote:
> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
> :
> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
> : male-to-male cable.
> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
> :
> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
> :
> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
> :
> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
> :
> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
> : current.
> :
> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
> :
> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "
or
<http://dx.com/p/usb-av-usb-power-current-voltage-tester-translucent-blue-silver-235090>
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 4:24 pm
From: Danny D'Amico
On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "
Hi Colin,
That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
the inner wires to a series of screws.
What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
meter leads.
But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 5:00 pm
From: mike
On 1/3/2014 3:09 PM, sms wrote:
> On 1/3/2014 2:09 PM, Colin Horsley wrote:
>> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
>> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
>> :
>> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
>> : male-to-male cable.
>> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
>> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
>> :
>> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
>> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
>> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
>> :
>> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
>> :
>> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
>> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
>> :
>> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
>> : current.
>> :
>> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
>> :
>> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
>> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
>> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>>
>> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current
>> voltage tester
>> Detector "
>
> or
> <http://dx.com/p/usb-av-usb-power-current-voltage-tester-translucent-blue-silver-235090>
>
>
>
Cool...I was ready to order one until I saw that the data doesn't pass thru.
WTF? The connectors are almost touching, why no data?
Kinda hard to measure the drain of a disk drive in action when it won't
come out of sleep.
Why would you not connect the data unless there were problems?
Anybody bridged the data? Results?
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 5:05 pm
From: mike
On 1/3/2014 4:24 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>
>> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>> Detector "
>
> Hi Colin,
> That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
> the inner wires to a series of screws.
>
> What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
> piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>
> Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
> meter leads.
>
> But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
> out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>
That works if you never want any data thru it.
Better would be to cut the power wire and run that thru a meter.
Get out your ohms law calculator and verify that your meter resistance
won't defeat you.
Leave all the high speed data wires and ground alone.
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 9:46 pm
From: "Colin Horsley"
"Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
: On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
:
: > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
: > Detector "
:
: Hi Colin,
: That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
: the inner wires to a series of screws.
:
: What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
: piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
:
: Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
: meter leads.
:
: But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
: out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
:
Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
Works very well.
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
Colin
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 7:55 am
From: Lab Lover
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:46:46 +1100, "Colin Horsley" <horsley-spam@westnet.com.au>
wrote:
>
>"Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
>news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
>: On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>:
>: > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>: > Detector "
>:
>: Hi Colin,
>: That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
>: the inner wires to a series of screws.
>:
>: What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
>: piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>:
>: Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
>: meter leads.
>:
>: But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
>: out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>:
>
>Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
>I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
>Works very well.
>
>http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
>
>Colin
>
>
Interesting looking device. I wonder how accurate it is? Kind of expensive if
you ask me.
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:04 am
From: mike
On 1/4/2014 7:55 AM, Lab Lover wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:46:46 +1100, "Colin Horsley" <horsley-spam@westnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
>> : On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>> :
>> : > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>> : > Detector "
>> :
>> : Hi Colin,
>> : That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
>> : the inner wires to a series of screws.
>> :
>> : What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
>> : piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>> :
>> : Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
>> : meter leads.
>> :
>> : But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
>> : out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>> :
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
>> I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
>> Works very well.
>>
>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>
> Interesting looking device. I wonder how accurate it is?
Other than the numbers on the first page of the link?
Kind of expensive if
> you ask me.
>
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:21 am
From: "Alexander Y. Sure"
On 04/01/14 06:09, Colin Horsley wrote:
> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
> :
> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
> : male-to-male cable.
> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
> :
> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
> :
> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
> :
> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
> :
> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
> : current.
> :
> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
> :
> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "
>
>
> Colin
>
>
...or here:
http://tinyurl.com/lmvbyl9
About 5 US$ with free shipping to USA.
Werner
==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Economic System of Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/98dfdf2fc7a7e805?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 5:38 am
From: bv4bv4bv4@gmail.com
The Economic System of Islam
1-An introduction to the principles Islam has legislated to guide the economic system of society. Part 1: The sources from which the laws that guide economical activity are derived.
2-The Ideological Basis of Economic Activity and the general principles by which they are guided
Introduction
As a complete way of life, Islam has provided guidelines and rules for every sphere of life and society. Naturally, a functioning economic system is vital for a healthy society, as the consumption of goods and services, and the facilitation of this by a common medium of exchange, play a major role in allowing people to realize their material and other goals in life.
Islam has set some standards, based on justice and practicality, for such economic systems to be established. These standards aim to prevent the enmity that often occurs between different socioeconomic sections. Of course, it is true that the gathering of money concerns almost every human being who participates in transactions with others. Yet, while these standards recognize money as being among the most important elements in society, they do not lose sight of the fact that its position is secondary to the real purpose of human existence, which is the worship of God.
An Islamic economic system is not necessarily concerned with the precise amount of financial income and expenditure, imports and exports, and other economic statistics. While such matters are no doubt important, Islam is more concerned with the spirit of the economic system.
A society that implements Islamic laws and promotes Islamic manners will find that it bring together all the systems – social, economic, and so forth – that it deals with. Islam teaches that God has created provision for every person who He has brought to life. Therefore, the competition for natural resources that is presumed to exist among the nations of the world is an illusion. While the earth has sufficient bounty to satisfy the needs of mankind, the challenge for humans lies in discovering, extracting, processing, and distributing these resources to those who need them.
Islam consists of a set of beliefs which organizes the relationship between the individual and his Creator; between the person and other human beings; between the person and universe; and even the relationship of the person to himself. In that sense, Islam regulates human behavior, and one type of human behavior is economic behavior. Economic behavior is dealt by Muslims as a means of production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. In Islam, human behavior -whether in the economic area or others - is not value free; nor is it value neutral. It is connected with the ideological foundation of the faith.
The Sources of Islamic Economics
The fundamental sources of Islam - the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet[1] - provide guidelines for economic behavior and a blueprint of how the economic system of a society should be organized. Therefore, the values and objectives of all "Islamic" economic systems must necessarily conform to, and comply with, the principles derived from these fundamental sources. The purpose of these articles is to outline the most salient characteristics of an economic system based on the fundamental sources of Islam. The focus here is on the principal features of the Islamic system.
The Islamic economic system is defined by a network of rules called the Shariah. The rules which are contained in the Shariah are both constitutive and regulative, meaning that they either lay the rules for the creation of economic entities and systems, as well the rules which regulate existing one. As an integral part of the revelation, the Shariah is the guide for human action which encompasses every aspect of life – spiritual, individual, social, political, cultural, and economic. It provides a scale by which all actions, whether on the part of the individual agents, society, and the state, are classified in regards to their legality. Thus there are five types of actions recognized, namely: obligatory; recommended; permissible; discouraged; and forbidden. This classification is also inclusive of economic behavior.
The basic source of the Shariah in Islam is the Quran and the Sunnah, which include all the necessary rules of the Shariah as guidance for mankind. The Sunnah further explains these rules by the practical application of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him. The expansion of the regulative rules of the Shariah and their extensions to new situations in later times was accomplished with the aid of consensus of the scholars, analogical reasoning - which derived rules by discerning an analogy between new problems and those existing in the primary sources - and finally, through textual reasoning of scholars specialized in the Shariah. These five sources - the Quran, the Sunnah, consensus of the scholars, analogical reasoning, and textual reasoning - constitute the components of the Shariah, and these components are also used as a basis for governing economic affairs.
Justice
In summary, we can say that the Islamic Economic system is based upon the notion of justice It is through justice that the existence of the rules governing the economic behavior of the individual and economic institutions in Islam can be understood. Justice in Islam is a multifaceted concept, and there several words exist to define it. The most common word in usage which refers to the overall concept of justice is the Arabic word "adl". This word and its many synonyms imply the concepts of "right", as equivalent to fairness, "putting things in their proper place", "equality", "equalizing", "balance", "temperance" and "moderation." In practice, justice is defined as acting in accordance with the Shariah, which, in turn, contains both substantive and procedural justice[2] covering economic issues. Substantive justice consists of those elements of justice contained in the substance of the Shariah, while procedural justice consists of rules of procedure assuring the attainment of justice contained in the substance of the Law. The notion of economic justice, and its attendant concept of distributive justice, [3] is particularly important as an identifying characteristic of the Islamic economic system. The rules governing permissible and forbidden economic behavior on the part of consumers, producers and government, as well as questions of property rights, and of the production and distribution of wealth, are all based on the Islamic view of justice.
The following topics will be discussed in the following articles:
(a) individual obligations, rights, and self-interest;
(b) property rights;
(c) importance of contracts;
(d) work and wealth;
(e) the concept of barakah;
(f) economic justice;
(g) prohibition of interest (riba);
(h) competition and cooperation; and
(i) the role of the state.
The Ideological Basis of Economic Activity
The ideological basis in Islam may be summarized into six basic principles:
The cornerstone is that everything has to start from the belief in God as the Creator, Lord, and Sovereign of the universe. This implies willingness to submit to God's will, to accept His guidance, and to have complete and unqualified servitude to Him. This means that Muslims - individually and collectively - should not imitate or emulate any other system if it differs from their particular principles, for example, the system of usury or interest.
The second basic principle is that Islam, as a religion, is a complete way of life; something that guides a person's life in all its aspects: the moral, social, ethical, economic, political, etc. All of these aspects are based on the guidance of God. Therefore, it is not a question of the person's acceptance of God's teaching in one matter and the refusal of acceptance in another. Everything has to be within that basic guidance.
"…And we have revealed to you in stages this book, a clarification of all things, a guidance, a mercy, and glad tidings…" (Quran 16:89)
A third principle is that God created human beings on earth as His trustees, which means that everyone is created to fulfill a certain responsibility on this earth. God has entrusted human beings with free will in order that they live their lives according to the moral and ethical values that He Himself provided. In addition, Islam provides an opportunity in material progress, thereby combining moral, social, and material progress, all interlinked in harmony.
The fourth principle is that God, in order to help humankind to fulfill the responsibility of trusteeship, has made everything in this universe subservient to them. There are many verses in the Quran that suggest this meaning, such as:
"God is He Who made subservient to you the sea that the ships may run therein by His command, and that you may seek of His grace, and that you may give thanks." (Quran 45:12)
This does not mean, however, that humans are given free reign to use and abuse the resources God has provided us however we choose. Rather, there are many verses that urge humankind to harness the various resources that God has made available to them on this earth responsibly. Humans are encouraged to enjoy of the good things that God has created, but they are to do so within the boundaries that He has given. Doing so is not regarded as sinful as long as it follows His path and does not transgress His limits. God says:
"It is He Who produces gardens, with trellises and without, and dates, and tilth with produce of all kinds, and olives and pomegranates, similar (in kind) and different (in variety): eat of their fruit in their season, but render the dues that are proper on the day that the harvest is gathered. But waste not by excess: for God loves not those who waste." (Quran 6:141)
The fifth principle is the principle of accountability in the Hereafter. God has given human beings trusteeship and resources. This means that every single person will be questioned on the Day of Judgment as to how he or she behaved whilst enjoying his or her earthly life. This, of course, includes our economic behavior. God says:
"And then on that Day (the Day of Resurrection) you will be called to account for every comfort and delight [we bestowed upon you]." (Quran 102:8)
The sixth principle is that the variation in wealth among people in itself does not give a person either inferiority or superiority. Rather, poverty and affluence are in the total control of God Who, out of His Infinite Justice and Wisdom, has specified these things for whom he chooses.
"Indeed God increases provision to whom He pleases and straitens it [in regards to others]…" (Quran 13:26)
Affluence, like poverty, is also seen as a trial from God, one through which it is seen what one will do with their wealth – indulge oneself or use constructively in ways legislated in the religion, God says:
"Your wealth and your children are only a trial, whereas God! With Him is a great reward (Paradise)."(Quran 64:15)
After being bestowed with numerous gifts and bounties and a kingdom incomparable to any other on the earth, God in the Quran narrates that Solomon said:
"…This is from the bounties of my Lord, to test me whether I will be thankful or ungrateful…" (Quran 27:40)
God is not concerned with the amount of wealth a person may have amassed, their beauty or color, but rather, His measure of honor is the piety of the hearts. God says:
"On humankind! Indeed We created you from a male and female, and we made you different nations and tribes, that you may come to know one other. Indeed the most honored amongst you are the most God-conscious." (Quran 49:13)
The Prophet also said:
"Indeed God is not concerned with your appearances nor your wealth, but rather your hearts and deeds." (Saheeh Muslim)
As one can immediately surmise from these principles that the Islamic economic system is radically different from others, due to the difference of the values upon which it is based. In a capitalist society, one may see certain rules of economics which take precedence over moral and ethical values due to the intrinsic nature and values of that system. The same may be seen in communist, socialist and other societies as well. From the principles mentioned in these articles does the Islamic system of economics spring, striking balance between personal benefit and the benefit of society as a whole, as well as mundane profits and spiritual gains, all which ensure that one gain the Pleasure of the Lord of the Worlds.
[1] The Sunnah is general body of narrations of the speech, deeds, and tacit approvals of the Prophet.
[2] "Substantive justice means reaching the 'right' result. Procedural justice means getting the result in the 'right' way." (A speech entitled "Effective Arbitration Techniques in a Global Context" delivered by the Secretary for Justice of Hong Kong ,Ms Elsie Leung)
[3] "Normative principles designed to allocate goods in limited supply relative to demand." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
(http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/justice-distributive/)
http://www.islamhouse.com/429666/en/en/articles/The_Economic_System_of_Islam
Thank you
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