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bud-- <null@void.com>: Jun 02 04:32PM -0600 On 6/1/2015 12:50 AM, Phil Allison wrote:   >> Link to the IEEE surge guide was in my first post. Excellent information >> from a completely reliable source.   > ** Fraid it is neither.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Electrical_and_Electronics_Engineers The IEEE currently has 400,000 members.   The surge guide comes from the Surge Protection Devices Committee. That is people who actually design surge protectors and protection schemes. They also write standards for surge protection.     > Nothing more than a simplistic, broad overview with no examples of any commercial products.   > It does NOT say what you claim.   For anyone with minimal reading skills, it shows how surge protectors are connected and how they work (at least in the US). Namely MOVs from H-N, H-G, and N-G.     >>> ** Insane crap.   >> The problem I described,   > ** Listen you pompous halfwit:   So do I trust people who actually design surge protection and have done basic research, all of whom support what I have written?   Or do I trust Phil, who is currently in troll mode?   ...that's a tough one...

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jun 02 09:23PM -0700 bud the dope -- wrote:     ( snip piles of irrelevant crap about the IEEE)     ** Listen you pompous halfwit:   the ** SAFETY HAZARD ** I am referring to is severe electric shock delivered to the user of the device.   Have you no idea how that can happen with MOVs wired to ground in a plug in device? ??   Obviously not - since the IEEE etc docs you linked do not bother to mention it.   Do I really have to rub your stupid nose in it ?   And you still have NO damn clue about the electric shock hazard inherent in connecting a MOV, cap, resistor or any sort of load from the current carrying conductors to safety ground inside a plug-in device.   Obviously, you cannot answer these important points.   FYI:   The executive director of the IEEE is a guy I went to high school and university with - Jim Prendergast.   https://www.ieee.org/about/management_council.html?WT.mc_id=lp_ab_imc   Totally irrelevant, of course.     ... Phil

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 03 03:40PM > https://www.ieee.org/about/management_council.html?WT.mc_id=lp_ab_imc   > Totally irrelevant, of course.   > ... Phil   I have to agree with Phil here. The key here is plug-in device. This is why "surge strips" or any sort of power strip with surge supression are just pure trash.   when these devices are not on fire, and are able to shunt some sort of surge, real or imagined into ground, you elevate the voltage on that segment of the ground circuit. That destroys or interferes with all the other equiment connected to that that ground.   Keep in mind lots of grounds aren't even really grounded, or grounded properly, especially in homes, old homes or places with poorly done electrical work. The end of the line is the worst place to try to stop a surge.   I had to remove some walls in a new space office space and wiring we found was appalling. Had to have the building engineer drop by to take a look for himself. He was baffled as well. Disconneting the weird wiring even resulted in one light switch causing the lights to just flicker instead off turn off in the off position. It wasn't even a two way switch.

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@labolgcbs.net>: Jun 03 07:35AM -0500 "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:nF6bx.548189$rk1.509613@fx44.am4... > been doing them for years. Not so often now of course, but several a week, > back in the day ...   > Arfa   Some of the higher-end Aiwa decks were the worst. In addition to the mechanics - there was a cluster - f**k of hard wiring to work around.   Mark Z.

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jun 03 04:26PM +0100 On 03/06/2015 13:35, Mark Zacharias wrote:   > Some of the higher-end Aiwa decks were the worst. In addition to the > mechanics - there was a cluster - f**k of hard wiring to work around.   > Mark Z.   Ah the feindish Aiwa AD 6900 lump from 1970s, just. Someone wanted me to repair one 2 months back , via post, until he found what 2 lots of postage would be.

Andre Majorel <cheney@halliburton.com>: Jun 03 08:13AM Found in a yoghurt maker whose heating element never turns off :   http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ee/f/ti3070s2.jpg   Black plastic, 23.3 x 6.7 x 3.6 mm with two wires (red and black) coming out of one end. Marked TI-30 70 S2.   Judging by the shape, it could be a thermocouple or an RTD. Does anyone know what it is ?   Thanks in advance !   -- André Majorel http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/ It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. -- Upton Sinclair

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jun 03 12:16PM +0100 On 03/06/2015 09:13, Andre Majorel wrote:   > Judging by the shape, it could be a thermocouple or an RTD. Does > anyone know what it is ?   > Thanks in advance !   looks like one of those compact bimetal dome switches, try heating wiht a hot air gun connected to DVM-R

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>: Jun 02 10:04PM -0400 How much power is used by the final stage?   Got a new Sandisk Clip, a very small MP3 player with an FM radio.   Built in battery, recharges from USB. I will probably forget to do this.   Am I correct, about radios in general and probably about this, that 80 or 90% of the power is used in the last stage, the stage that powers the earbuds (or the speakers in a radio) And t hat all the other stages put together use less than 10 or 20% of the power?   Sometimes when listening to the radio and walking around, the sound disappears because the signal is not there. No hum even. Am I right that it's only using 10 or 20% of the power it does when the program is playing?   Thanks a lot

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Jun 02 11:06PM -0400

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jun 02 09:05PM -0700 micky wrote:   > How much power is used by the final stage?     ** How long is a piece of string ?     > Am I correct, about radios in general and probably about this, that 80 > or 90% of the power is used in the last stage, the stage that powers the > earbuds (or the speakers in a radio)     ** Ear buds use FAR less power than speakers, less than 1 milliwatt at ordinary listening levels. The other circuitry is likely using way more.     > disappears because the signal is not there. No hum even. Am I right > that it's only using 10 or 20% of the power it does when the program is > playing?   ** No.   Got any more boring, silly questions ?     .... Phil

Chuck <chuck@mydeja.net>: Jun 02 06:10PM -0500 On Tue, 2 Jun 2015 07:29:10 -0700 (PDT), John-Del <ohger1s@aol.com> wrote:   >> > My vintage Sony Trinitron model KV-19TS20 goes wacky after inly a few seconds. screen has jagged lines and makes a noise that changes in pitch from low to high. Can somebody please help me?   >> Tuner grounds? You may be thinking of RCA   >Sony tuners were not immune to bad grounds, particularly the combo tuner/IF modules, although they were no where as troublesome as those RCA CTC17X series.   At the Sony warranty station where I worked there were so many sets returning with tuner ground failures, that it got to the point, regardless of what the set was brought in for, we resoldered the tuner grounds as well as all IF and AFT transformer leads.   --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

captainvideo462009@gmail.com: Jun 02 11:34AM -0700 I presently have two old, (PRC77's for whoever may be familiar with these), ex military portable FM back pack radios on the bench that I'm checking out. These units tune 950 channels between 30 and 75 MHZ and output between one and two watts depending on frequency. Admittedly these circa 1968 radios are no longer very practical, but fun to put on six meters and bring to Ham fests. The radios operate on 14.4 volt battery packs.   The old magnesium battery packs were dead so I removed the special connectors from them, soldered 9.0 foot 14 AWG. leads on them and connected these to two bench power supplies. I was trying to measure the voltage and note the current during transmit. I had my 265 set to the 60.0 volt range and connected at the power supply. The power supplies were both set to 14.0 volts as noted on my meter. Every time I keyed the transmitter the meter reading dropped to slightly below zero. At first I thought that the power supplies might be current limiting but that didn't make sense because the squelch remained open, clearly indicating the presence of a carrier on the scanner.   I tried a portable digital as well as my bench Fluke. The portable dropped to 4.80 volts and the fluke's power supply, (apparently) for whatever reason broke the squelch on my scanner, so I wasn't able to use that meter at all. Interestingly the only meter that was "almost" impervious to the anomaly was my old RCA Senior Voltohmyst. The meter fluttered very slightly but remained pretty steady. I seem to recall in the specs for that meter that the upper limit was something like 3.50MHZ.   Finally in desperation I connected my scope using a X1 probe up in place of the meter and confirmed the presence of an RF carrier superimposed on the DC level every time I keyed. I tried using "HF REJ" on the scope hoping that would eliminate the carrier but surprisingly it made no difference.   So I built a small PI filter comprised of two small chokes and a small capacitor, values unknown at this point. The configuration is as follows: Each lead of the scope is in series with a choke, then the cap is across the other side of the two chokes, and the line then goes to the radio, and then the power supply.   This filter decreased the RF displayed on the scope considerably but when switched over to the 265, not enough to effect the problem with it very much. However when this filter was placed ahead of the Senior Voltohmyst there were no anomalies present on it. Yay for old technology!   So this is not a huge problem. I don't mind using my RCA meter with my make shift filter to read this voltage. But then in theory to use my other equipment such as the scope it would seem like I need to design a filter having a resonant frequency equal to every frequency I want to check. That's not very practical.   I woud reall appreciate any further thoughts on this. Thanks, Lenny

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Jun 02 12:42PM -0700 In article <b8ba0a30-f890-41f8-9d5b-ee95f2baa9ed@googlegroups.com>,   >I woud reall appreciate any further thoughts on this. Thanks, Lenny   Were you actually transmitting (through an antenna) during these tests?   If so, does the problem recur if you install a proper RF dummy load in place of the whip antenna?   My guess is that when you transmit through a whip, the whole chassis is going to be RF-hot (it's the "ground" or "counterpoise" side of the antenna system), and a lot of the RF is going to propagate back down the power cables. There's likely to be enough RF getting into the metering electronics (whether digital or analog) to cause rectification in diodes/transistors in the measurement circuitry... hence the rather bogus readings you're getting.   An old-style "hot wire" ammeter might be your best bet for evaluating DC current draw in this situation.

captainvideo462009@gmail.com: Jun 02 03:02PM -0700 > This filter decreased the RF displayed on the scope considerably but when switched over to the 265, not enough to effect the problem with it very much. However when this filter was placed ahead of the Senior Voltohmyst there were no anomalies present on it. Yay for old technology!   > So this is not a huge problem. I don't mind using my RCA meter with my make shift filter to read this voltage. But then in theory to use my other equipment such as the scope it would seem like I need to design a filter having a resonant frequency equal to every frequency I want to check. That's not very practical.   > I woud reall appreciate any further thoughts on this. Thanks, Lenny   The 77's have a BNC jack on the top panel as well as a threaded mount for either a short or long whip antenna. At the time I had my watt meter connected to the BNC jack with a dummy load off the other side of that. However I did have the whips installed on both radios. I didn't want to key without an antenna in place, but that probably wasn't necessary since I had the dummy load on there. I'll repeat everything with the antennas removed and report back. Thanks. Lenny   https://www.google.com/search?q=prc77&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=lyZuVdmdGY-1sQTbjYGoBA&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1024&bih=615#imgrc=53bT9hnw-U_VPM%253A%3BWVuMYSHaxTgw2M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.prc68.com%252FI%252FImages%252FPRC77-02b.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.prc68.com%252FI%252FPRC77.shtml%3B1280%3B557

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 02 09:38PM > I have installed a thermostat in my garage to control a fan placed on a shelf in front of the peak vent. The thermostat box has a 6V AA battery pack which switches control voltage to SS relay near the fan. The relay says "Silicon Power Cube" on it and is rated for 240V and 3A. I am using it on 120VAC. The control voltage is specified at 3 to 32 VDC. This system works perfectly. I have been using common 20 inch box fans. The problem is they only last a year or so and then they just stop working. Sometimes they fail over the winter when they never run. I have tried to troubleshoot the fans but can't find out why they have failed. The capacitors on the motor measure the correct value. I suspect there is something in the SS relay that is causing them to fail but I have no idea how. Are SS relays compatible with induction motors? I am on my fourth fan in about 5 years now and these fans usually last forever. > Thanks for any ideas. > Soartech   You might try a name brand solid state relay and see what happens. Crydom is real, silicon cube is not.

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Chuck <chuck@mydeja.net>: Jun 02 08:13AM -0500 >On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 3:46:05 PM UTC-5, Glenn Russell wrote: >> My vintage Sony Trinitron model KV-19TS20 goes wacky after inly a few seconds. screen has jagged lines and makes a noise that changes in pitch from low to high. Can somebody please help me?   >What about the bad connections at the coils to the IF chip. Nobody mentioned that.     You are right. Also the bad grounds in the tuner.   --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

captainvideo462009@gmail.com: Jun 02 06:45AM -0700 On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-4, Glenn Russell wrote: > My vintage Sony Trinitron model KV-19TS20 goes wacky after inly a few seconds. screen has jagged lines and makes a noise that changes in pitch from low to high. Can somebody please help me?   Tuner grounds? You may be thinking of RCA

John-Del <ohger1s@aol.com>: Jun 02 07:29AM -0700 > On Tuesday, May 26, 2015 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-4, Glenn Russell wrote: > > My vintage Sony Trinitron model KV-19TS20 goes wacky after inly a few seconds. screen has jagged lines and makes a noise that changes in pitch from low to high. Can somebody please help me?   > Tuner grounds? You may be thinking of RCA   Sony tuners were not immune to bad grounds, particularly the combo tuner/IF modules, although they were no where as troublesome as those RCA CTC17X series.

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 01 10:22PM > Best guess I have.   > -bruce > bje@ripco.com   Remember the tuning thumb wheels for each channel under the top panel of old-ass VCRs?

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Jun 01 08:01PM -0400

Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com>: Jun 02 12:37PM > Remember the tuning thumb wheels for each channel under the top panel of > old-ass VCRs?   I remember more prehistoric stuff than that.   Somewhere around here I still have my timer from the Quasar Great Time Machine, a non-vhs, non-beta format that died out around 1983 or so.   Although the main deck had detent tuners (you know, click knobs), the timer to make it auto-record was an optional accessory. It was similar to those timers of the day where you stuck plastic pins in these slots to make a lamp turn on and off.   It sort of looked like two clock faces, one was the analog clock (complete with sweep hand) the other was where you plugged the pins into. The idea was, you plugged the timer into the outlet, the vcr into the clock.   Since the machine was mechanical, you just pressed rec/play down while off and when the timer clicked to "on", it power the vcr up until the next pin passed, which shut the machine off. Of course you had to remember to put it on what channel you wanted before hand.   What was sort of odd, I think there were 8 pins, 4 for on and 4 for off (only a different color, either pin knocked the timer to the other on or off mode). Since the machine couldn't change channels, all you could do was record up to 4 programs within 24 hours of the same channel, since the timer was circular.   The odd part was the tape only held like 60 or 90 minutes, I think. Not really sure where recording 4 programs would work.   I never owned one but I think Sony made a carosel adapter for some of the beta decks, mechanically would eject/insert a new tape when one reached the end.   The stupidest thing I remember is when RCA introduced a vcr where the timer could be set up to a year in advance. I mean on any level, where would a feature like that come in handy and possibly work?   Anyway with the OP's question, the model number gave me a slight tingle being familar (it wasnt in the end) but after looking around for a bit for a picture or anything else, it does seem to be a later model (maybe mid 90's) than a pre-historic one.   I also remember towards the end of those (vcrs in general), there were some that basically had no buttons on the machine except on-off (maybe play/stop also). Even the tracking was on the remote only.   Panasonic (which used to market as National in some countries) did do some stupid things once in a while. Next to me is a DMR-EH75V which was one of those vhs-hdd-dvd recorders they made about 10 years ago, very handy to make dvd's from vhs, the tape dumps to the hard drive, once there you can control how to make the dvd. Sort of an editing deck.   The problem is the clock, there is no manual set for it. It used to use the EPG for the info, which of course, no analog channels, no EPG, no clock. Someone did figure out a secret menu thing, hit reset while pressing two other buttons and some kind of "it only appears once" manual clock set comes up in an on-screen menu, but without the EPG, I've had free watches from cereal boxes keep better time.   -bruce bje@ripco.com

Bruce Esquibel <bje@ripco.com>: Jun 02 01:00PM > long I'm not sure. At least it was palm size remote, unlike some early > cable converters that had a box with a lot of pushbuttons that you kept > at your chair, the converter being on top of the tv set.   Those kinds of wired remotes were common for a while, I guess most of the 2nd generations (80-83?) used them. They weren't hard wired in, most had a 3.5" mono earphone plug.   They even had "wars" with those. Most were 4 function (stop/play/ff/rw) but someone would have a "6 function" (probably channel up/down added) and some even went as far as adding a record.   The odd thing to me was how they did it, it was just a two-wire cord and the remote had no battery. The hand unit itself was a resistor ladder, like pressing stop was a dead short, play was maybe 220 ohms, ff was 1000, rew maybe 4700 ohms. I don't remember what they used in the machine to read it, I always thought it was something like those chips they used to sell for making your own led VU meter. Each function was another "step".   Once the IR remotes came out, it was the end of wired ones but I bet they were fairly standard issue for 2 or 3 years, if not a bit longer.   One other memory fragment, I think it was Panasonic that introduced a wireless upgrade device. If you had one of their decks with a wired remote, they made (for a while) a black box which came with a IR hand held remote, box plugged into the jack for the wired remote, into the 120V and instant wireless. Wasn't cheap and probably wasn't made for more than a year or two.   -bruce bje@ripco.com

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>: Jun 02 01:53AM +0100 > I have long suspected the laser power adjustments on the cheapies are > shipped unadjusted - perhaps merely centered.   > Mark Z.   I think you might be right Mark. I have also used these cheap complete mechs for exactly the same reasons as Gareth - that is to make a repair viable. A couple of months back, I had a major fight with an eBay supplier over one that didn't work. It actually looked like someone had been having a go with a poker on the board on the back of the optical unit.   I contacted the supplier, and told him that the unit did nor work, right out of the box, and it looked like someone had taken a poker to the soldering. He replied and tried to tell me that it was just typical lead-free soldering that I was looking at, and that I should just turn up the gain pot and it would work just fine. I politely told him that I had been repairing CD players since the day they were released onto the market in the 80s, and I could tell the difference between lead free solder, and someone having been at it with a nail heated up on a gas ring. I also told him that there wasn't a gain pot.   He replied again and said that there was nothing wrong with the soldering, and I should adjust the gain pot on the back of the laser. So I sent him a photo of the shit-street soldering, and told him that the pot on the back of the optical block was not a gain pot, but an adjustment in the feedback loop for controlling the output power of the laser diode, and that on Sony lasers, it should not be adjusted willy-nilly, otherwise damage to the laser diode could easily be done. I further assured him that I had sufficient experience of replacing lasers to be able to say with absolute certainty that this one was faulty, and that I would like it replacing please. And still he went on about adjusting the "gain pot", finally suggesting that I send the whole piece of equipment back to him, and he would repair it for me ...   At this point, I got really mad, and asked him if he really thought that I was trying to have him over for eight fucking quid ???!!!   Eventually, he sent me another, and that worked ok immediately, but significantly, these cheap replacements never seem to have the 'normal' paint blob on the pot. I seem to recall also that the original Sony lasers had a little dot matrix printed label on them that had some figures, amongst which were the factory-measured laser current ??   So maybe these ones *are* being shipped unadjusted ... With most manufacturers, 1 volt p-p eye pattern at the RF test point seems to be an 'unwritten' standard so might be worth checking next time one of us fits one of these.   Arfa

thekmanrocks@gmail.com: Jun 02 04:56AM -0700 CD players were never intended to be designed to last. The developers of ARPA-NET(predecessor to the Internet) KNEW, forty years beforehand, of its potential and of the ultimate culmination: the CLOUD.     CDDA(Compact Disc Digital Audio) was just a teaser, a temporary stand-in for the ultimate transition of all media(music, movies, TV, books, and news)from their physical form to a server-based access point.     I frequent retailers in the second-hand industry("thrift stores"), and of every ten CD or DVD players donated, only TWO actually work! They were built flimsily ON PURPOSE, because manufacturers know what was coming next - mp3s, WAVs, Napster, iTunes, NetFlix, and the Cloud. You never see anyone in "Star Trek" insert a disc or tape into a machine to play something back, do you? Welcome to Star Trek my friends! It's here(we just need to figger out how to build those cool ships...).     I still hold on to my physical collection and the gear to play it on because I believe in something that everyone else has forgotten about - BACK-UP. And also, music & movies physically played back just plain sound and look better!

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>: Jun 02 01:20AM +0100 "Tim Schwartz" <tim@bristolnj.com> wrote in message news:mket8q$j5o$1@dont-email.me... > even if you done this many times before.   > Regards, > Tim   Oh Tim, you lightweight ! :-) It's amazing what can be done with a big flat-bladed screwdriver and a dentist's pick !   That said, I struggled this morning with a NAD cassette deck. The whole front had to come off, then the tape deck had to be unscrewed from the front. Then the bearing / motor plate had to come off which was secured by just one screw, but then had to slide in 'three dimensions' to get it off the chassis out the way. Removing this allowed the spiral tension spring for the cam gear lever to come off the post that it sat on, normally held in place by the plate. About the only good thing was that a temporary anchor post for the belt was provided to allow it to be put round the flywheel and held in tension until the motor pulley was back where it should be when the plate was back on. And what a bitchin' job putting it back together was. It was impossible to get that tension spring back in place and get it to stay, in tension, whilst that plate was refitted. But when the plate was refitted, it was almost impossible to wind it up the 3/4 turn necessary to get the end back under its locating tang. I finished up grabbing the end with a hemostat - such a useful tool for this sort of work - then using the dentist's pick to pull it round whilst guiding it with the hemostat, and finally using the hemostat to hook it into place before releasing it. How many attempts ? I dunno, three, four maybe ?   Not as long as two hours, but probably more than one, and like you, I've been doing them for years. Not so often now of course, but several a week, back in the day ...   Arfa

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jun 01 07:34PM -0700 Y'know, we are to the point in technology where it would be cheaper to just use three motors. Would give alot more functionality as well.

Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Jun 01 04:47PM -0500 Deane Williams wrote:   > very similar to the one I had and when connected to the SS relay it won't > run. It just sits there and hums. So I put it on a timer which is not as > good as a thermostat. These fans have one-time thermal fuses buried in the windings, to prevent house fires. If you are using this to cool off a hot attic, that may be getting the thermal fuse too close to the fusing temperature, add a couple hours of motor on time and the fuse may blow.   Jon

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Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: May 31 11:50PM -0700 bud-- wrote:     > > Yawnnnnn....   > Link to the IEEE surge guide was in my first post. Excellent information > from a completely reliable source.   ** Fraid it is neither.   Nothing more than a simplistic, broad overview with no examples of any commercial products.   It does NOT say what you claim.       > >> H-N only protectors can increase risk, not reduce it.   > > ** Insane crap.   > The problem I described,     ** Listen you pompous halfwit:   the ** SAFETY HAZARD ** I am referring to is severe electric shock delivered to the user of the device.   Have you no idea how that can happen with MOVs wired to ground in a plug in device? ??   Obviously not - since the IEEE etc docs you linked do not bother to mention it.   Do I really have to rub your stupid nose in it ?     > Sometimes you post really interesting information.     ** Not just sometimes.   And you still have NO damn clue about the electric shock hazard inherent in connecting a MOV, cap, resistor or any sort of load from the current carrying conductors to safety ground inside a plug-in device.       ... Phil

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Jun 01 12:30AM -0700 On Sunday, May 31, 2015 at 12:14:55 AM UTC-7, Phil Allison wrote:   > > Standard practice in the US for plug-in protectors is MOVs from H-N, > > H-G, N-G.   > ** I really doubt using three MOVs like that is *normal* practice - certainly one never sees it in entertainment electronics or test gear, whether made in the USA or elsewhere.   It isn't acceptable for US medical devices, but it isn't unknown, either. It's always combined with a fuse, where I've seen it.

Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Jun 01 11:16AM On Sun, 31 May 2015 23:50:30 -0700, Phil Allison wrote:   > Do I really have to rub your stupid nose in it ?   "I'm so sorry; he's from Barcelona."

Deane Williams <pyroartist.dw@gmail.com>: May 31 10:03AM -0700 Jamie, Thanks but I believe the problem is electrical. The fans still turn easily with little or no drag after they have stopped working. Two years ago I bought a higher quality fan from Home Depot and I thought I had solved the problem as it lasted through 2 summers, but this year it only ran a couple of days and then failed in the same mysterious way as the cheap box fans. Even stranger, I went out and bought my 4th fan at Home Depot which looks very similar to the one I had and when connected to the SS relay it won't run. It just sits there and hums. So I put it on a timer which is not as good as a thermostat.

sam@repairfaq.org (Samuel M. Goldwasser): May 31 03:54PM -0400 > looks very similar to the one I had and when connected to the SS relay > it won't run. It just sits there and hums. So I put it on a timer > which is not as good as a thermostat.   THat's perhaps a clue that your SS relay is defective and only switching one polarity of the line. So you get DC, the fan hums and doesn't turn, then the motor burns out if left connected.   One kludge but effective solution would be to have the SS relay control an AC/DC relay that switches the fan.   -- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html   Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: May 31 08:27PM -0400 In article <7a9cad5f-f783-4bb4-8b31-78b7621b8333@googlegroups.com>, pyroartist.dw@gmail.com says...   > Jamie, > Thanks but I believe the problem is electrical. The fans still turn easily with little or no drag after they have stopped working. Two years ago I bought a higher quality fan from Home Depot and I thought I had solved the problem as it lasted through 2 summers, but this year it only ran a couple of days and then failed in the same mysterious way as the cheap box fans. > Even stranger, I went out and bought my 4th fan at Home Depot which looks very similar to the one I had and when connected to the SS relay it won't run. It just sits there and hums. So I put it on a timer which is not as good as a thermostat.   For testing purposes, connect a drop light with a incandescent bulb in it on the same circuit that runs the fan after the SSR. You may only need a small one. See if the fan will operate with that light also connected to the same circuit, use a power strip of something that gets powered via the SSR to make sure you're on the same switched circuit.   Report back :)   Jamie

isw <isw@witzend.com>: May 31 08:45PM -0700 In article <7a9cad5f-f783-4bb4-8b31-78b7621b8333@googlegroups.com>, > very similar to the one I had and when connected to the SS relay it won't > run. It just sits there and hums. So I put it on a timer which is not as good > as a thermostat.   Some SSRs are not happy with largely inductive loads (i.e. fans).   Isaac

amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: May 31 11:52AM -0500 On 5/30/2015 9:21 PM, M Philbrook wrote: > about the bad things no matter who did it :). Talking about good things > is simply boring !   > jamie   Hmm, good info, next time it fails, I can pull that transistor and any/all of the other three with the same number and test beta. Thanks, Mikek

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