Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 7 updates in 4 topics

Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid>: Aug 22 10:53AM +0100

On 18/08/2020 23:17, malua mada! wrote:
> Suggest search terms...?
> Thanks
> Fritz
 
It's got a name almost similar to your name ;-)
 
Look for Litz headphone wire
 
--
Adrian C
etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 21 11:34AM -0700

I have an old Singer sewing machine. It is a model 221, AKA a
Featherweight. I got the thing at a garage sale for 5 or 10 bucks and
everything was there but the foot pedal motor control.
So I bought a modern PWM style control instead of an old carbon
disc style one because it was supposed to be better. At least I think
the new one is PWM. It is very light and doesn't get hot after lots of
use.
I think it may be under performing though because the little
machine seems to run too slow. I did go through the machine, cleaning
and adjusting it. It was dirty inside, had old congealed lubricants
clogging and sticking stuff up. Things were also really out of
adjustment so it would not have been able to sew even if it was
turning freely.
The machine now turns quite freely. It is oiled with the proper oil
and the motor, which I also cleaned and lubricated, is lubricated with
the proper grease.
So after all that the machine still runs too slowly. At least in my
opinion. The motor just doesn't seem to have much oomph and I'm
wondering if maybe the foot pedal control is not delivering enough
current and/or voltage. Since the control is PWM output would an
analog meter like my Simpson 260 be a good tool to measure the current
and voltage?
Or maybe someone here knows already about these machines and the
foot controls and can tell me what to expect from a properly
operating control. And the best way to check it.
Thanks,
Eric
 
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"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Aug 21 12:36PM -0700

Ummmm ..... PWM controls are for DC motors for the most part. When used on AC motors, they will cut speed by some amount just by being in place. Motors are funny things. They draw rated current even when throttled, which is why VFDs are preferred for AC motors. Not so much the control heating up as the motor heating up if fed with a PWM device.
 
https://www.amazon.com/Sew-link-Featherweight-Control-Pedal-PFW-196131/dp/B07DMSSF2R/ref=asc_df_B07DMSSF2R/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241925305119&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4629272318479936685&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007234&hvtargid=pla-466961777480&psc=1
 
Yes. There are some featherweight motors that are both AC or DC - but it will run better on AC.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com>: Aug 22 02:38AM +0530


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I've seen designs - but not the actual product - of cheap motor
controls that can provide only half the power at full throttle.
This is because the phase-controlled device is an SCR without any
pre-rectification and conduct for only half of each AC cycle..
Maybe you have one of those.
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Aug 21 08:27PM -0700

Pimpom wrote:
 
------------
> controls that can provide only half the power at full throttle.
> This is because the phase-controlled device is an SCR without any
> pre-rectification and conduct for only half of each AC cycle..
 
** SCR speed controls for AC/DC motors are brilliant things - cos they allow for back EMF feedback as well as very low speeds.
 
The feedback keeps the speed steady with varying loads - while trigger speed controls built into drills use triacs and give no such benefit.
 
The sewing machine foot controller is likely a triac type - which is a form of PWM too.
 
 
..... Phil
Michael_A_Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Aug 21 04:10PM -0400

>> without opening.
>> --
 
> We all know the Belfuse fuses were chemical fuses except for just *one* group contributor who is *never* wrong and said they aren't chemical fuses...
 
 
What he doesn't know would fill entire libraries. I'll bet that he's
never heard of a Klystrode, either. They replaced Klystrons in high
power TV transmitters, but they wer more efficient so the station's
power bill was lower. the 5MW UHF site that I maintaining had a $45,000
per month electric bill. It would have been about 15 to 20% lower if it
used Klystrodes.
 
 
--
Never piss off an Engineer!
 
They don't get mad.
 
They don't get even.
 
They go for over unity! ;-)
"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Aug 21 10:27AM -0700

> I know modern caps are much better than old caps. However, why do you
> suppose it is that motor run caps are so big for their voltage and
> capacitance ratings compared to other non-polarized caps? I'm serious.
 
That is not a bad question at all:
a) Because they are AC-rated caps.
b) Because the nature of a motor starting puts a tremendous load on the cap for a very short time, so they must be robust enough to absorb that shock, repeatedly and reliably, in addition to the actual voltage involved. So, whereas the actual operating voltage may be say.... 240 VAC, the start-cap must be rated (at a minimum) of 150% of the operating voltage.
c) Typical NP caps are used a great deal in audio applications, where the voltages are small, and the frequencies high.
d) Motor Run caps start around 370V, or so, are typically of much lower capacitance than a start-cap (and whereas replacement voltage may be higher, replacement capacitance should remain very close or identical to OEM).
 
Hope that helps.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 8 updates in 5 topics

etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 21 09:35AM -0700

Greetings Jeff,
I grew up in Cupertino and Saratoga. I spent most of my summers
when I was a teen in the Santa Cruz Mountains. We used to hitch hike
from Saratoga to Los Gatos and then to Santa Cruz to enjoy the
beaches. Camped in all sorts of places in the Santa Cruz Mountains
that were not actually campgrounds, but just places where we wouldn't
get caught. Also Big Basin and Henry Cowell state parks.
Now there are all these fires in your area. It's making me
heartsick. I hope you are OK.
Sincererly,
Eric
 
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tabbypurr@gmail.com: Aug 21 02:26AM -0700

> Modern motor run caps are all large. They use a lot of material. It
> can't be they do this just because of tradition.
> Eric
 
You could always look up what properties motor run caps have.
But did you also notice that even a 1930s paper cap lasted 80+ years? Modern film caps are massively better & smaller.
 
 
NT
etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 21 09:28AM -0700


>You could always look up what properties motor run caps have.
>But did you also notice that even a 1930s paper cap lasted 80+ years? Modern film caps are massively better & smaller.
 
>NT
I know modern caps are much better than old caps. However, why do you
suppose it is that motor run caps are so big for their voltage and
capacitance ratings compared to other non-polarized caps? I'm serious.
Eric
 
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vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com: Aug 21 03:36PM

Thanks. Yes, I haven't done much soldering in a few decades. It is on the
board and seems rather tiny and fragile. I tried to straighten it out with
tweezers and it seems to have broken or at least gotten pushed in. Certainly
the 2011 device is fully depreciated and its economic life has expired, but
I'm comfy with it. I guess opening it and trying once can't hurt if it's
already gone. Although my repairs usually require opening it, giving up then
a while later getting some inspiration to try again.
 
 
--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus
blog: panix.com/~vjp2/ruminatn.htm - = - web: panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
facebook.com/vasjpan2 - linkedin.com/in/vasjpan02 - biostrategist.com
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
Tom Kupp <tjkupp@gmail.com>: Aug 21 11:18AM -0400

> My Panasonic nn sf464m has started to do this too. It's only a year old, did anyone find a fix?
 
Don't know the model number, but WD40 in the latch fixed mine.
Michael_A_Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Aug 20 05:41PM -0400

>> including the Belfuse chemical fuses.
>> --
 
> Uh oh! You did *not* call them "chemical" fuses!!! Standby...
 
 
That's what they are. The fuse element is coated with a chemical
that burns as soon as it reaches its critical temperature to ensure that
it opens quickly. They were use in the cathodes of Horizontal output
tubes, and some solid state circuits. They are very fast opening fuses,
and similar to the 7200V fuses used by utilities, except they use
gunpowder to quench the plasma. Both methods can run right below their
critical temperature without opening. Once any part of the element
reaches critical temperature, it opens. No sagging fuse elements that
change their fusing current from running too hot without opening. I've
seen some AGC fuses where it had melted, and drooped to the glass
without opening.
 
--
Never piss off an Engineer!
 
They don't get mad.
 
They don't get even.
 
They go for over unity! ;-)
tabbypurr@gmail.com: Aug 21 02:38AM -0700

On Thursday, 20 August 2020 08:20:49 UTC+1, Pimpom wrote:
> it's hours at 100% and several secs at 200%. I haven't updated
> myself and was thinking of some mfr's data and my own test from
> long ago which were around 30 secs at 100% and 1 sec at 200%.
 
There are fuses that pop at 100% rating, but the great majority of types carry 100% indefinitely.
 
 
NT
"ohg...@gmail.com" <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 21 04:34AM -0700

> seen some AGC fuses where it had melted, and drooped to the glass
> without opening.
> --
 
We all know the Belfuse fuses were chemical fuses except for just *one* group contributor who is *never* wrong and said they aren't chemical fuses...
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 8 updates in 4 topics

"jurb...@gmail.com" <jurb6006@gmail.com>: Aug 19 02:06PM -0700

Google fucked this all up, up sorry to say goodbye.
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Aug 19 03:42PM -0700

Ralph Mowery wrote:
 
==================
 
> it is really they are to protect the wiring and the power supply that is
> feedig the device.
 
> Without a fuse, the wires could get hot enough to cause a fire.
 
** Supply line fuses limit damage to the following circuitry - particularly steel core transformers and other heat sensitive parts. Internal supply wiring should be and normally IS adequate to trip external breakers without burning up.
 
That makers specify a correct supply fuse to fit tells you it is not just for cable protection. However, the biggest mistake is to think user replaceable fuses actually protect anything.
 
 
 
..... Phil
Pimpom <nobody@nowhere.com>: Aug 20 12:50PM +0530

On 8/19/2020 7:11 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
 
> Cos the Amp rating is for the max holding value.
 
> Slow acting ( ie T for trage ) types open at current levels not much above their rating, given enough time.
 
> ..... Phil
 
I stand corrected. I just looked up some current datasheets and
it's hours at 100% and several secs at 200%. I haven't updated
myself and was thinking of some mfr's data and my own test from
long ago which were around 30 secs at 100% and 1 sec at 200%.
Michael_A_Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Aug 20 03:26AM -0400

legg wrote:
> <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote:
 
> 3AG is a series of glass bodied low voltage fuses.
> (Automotive Glass)
 
 
Automotive fuses were SFE, until they switched to those plastic,
plug in type. They were rated for 32VDC maximum, and they got longer as
the current rating went up, to prevent you from putting in a much larger
fuse. Our shop used to stock over 250 series and values of fuses,
including the Belfuse chemical fuses.
 
 
 
 
--
Never piss off an Engineer!
 
They don't get mad.
 
They don't get even.
 
They go for over unity! ;-)
"ohg...@gmail.com" <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Aug 20 06:51AM -0700

> fuse. Our shop used to stock over 250 series and values of fuses,
> including the Belfuse chemical fuses.
> --
 
Uh oh! You did *not* call them "chemical" fuses!!! Standby...
Michael_A_Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com>: Aug 20 03:15AM -0400


> Modern motor run caps are all large. They use a lot of material. It
> can't be they do this just because of tradition.
 
Start caps are AC electrolytics. Run capacitors are AC rated film,
or in case of that 80 year old cap, paper insulation. They are large, to
dissipate the heat from continuous operation.
 
--
Never piss off an Engineer!
 
They don't get mad.
 
They don't get even.
 
They go for over unity! ;-)
bruce bowser <bruce2bowser@gmail.com>: Aug 19 12:18PM -0700

I can already see where this is going with online continuous play. They are going to interrupt it every 3 minutes with commercials. I'll go back to the 1980's casette tapes before this.
bruce bowser <bruce2bowser@gmail.com>: Aug 19 12:09PM -0700

I can already see where this is going with online continuous play. They are going to interrupt it every 3 minutes with commercial. I'll go back to the 1980's casette tapes before this.
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