Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 9 updates in 3 topics

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jan 20 02:02PM -0800

On Tue, 18 Jan 2022 17:19:39 -0800, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave
Platt) wrote:
 
>lethal to humans in a relatively short amount of time (minutes to
>weeks). They're "no, you really don't want to be here, get the hell
>away" devices, just like the dosimeters.
 
There are actually two similar looking boxes in the kit. (I can
provide a photo of the kit as soon as I find the box). The C DV-700
geiger counter, which uses a Geiger-Muller tube, and the CD V-715,
which is an ionization chamber:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/163254194417> (I paid $35 for the entire
kit at a local garage sale in 1985, before Chernobyl. Nobody believes
me today).
<http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmuseum2/radkits/cdv700.html>
<http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmuseum2/radkits/cdv715.html>
The photo also shows the quartz wired dosimeters and readers. The
geiger counter is for fairly low radiation levels. The ionization
chamber is for fairly high levels. I've been told that if I need to
use the ionization chamber device, I'm already dead.
 
>They don't respond well to low levels of radiation (background, NORM,
>uranium glass, Fiesta ware, etc.).
 
Yep. The entire range of the geiger counter on X100 is about 1/2 the
first division of meter on the ionization chamber.
<http://www.civildefensemuseum.com/cdmuseum2/supply/radkits.html#compare>
 
>very sensitive to moisture. As I recall, they're supposed to be
>"baked" periodically to make sure they're dry, and then stored sealed
>in plastic with a dessicant pack.
 
Nope. The ionization chamber is hermetically sealed (sealed by a
hermit):
<https://www.survivalmonkey.com/resources/victoreen-cd-v-715-instruction-and-maintenance-manual.267/download?version=268>
"The ionization chamber is hermetically sealed to eliminate changes in
sensitivity due to changes in air pressure resulting from altitude
changes, temperature changes, and moisture effects". (Pg 3)
 
However, I have seen problems with the phenolic paper PCB used in most
early units. The PCB absorbs enough moisture to cause high resistance
shorts. A few minutes in a toaster oven usually solves the problem.
If I see some flux left on the PCB from a previous repair, I clean it
off with water and alcohol separately, and then coat the area with
some manner of conformal coating or high-voltage corona dope.
 
>you mention... in an actual fallout zone, Geiger counters and
>scintillation detectors will probably saturate and read low or
>zero.
 
Today, methinks that some of the higher end radiation survey meters
have an PIN diode gamma ray detector for the higher doses:
<https://www.ssdi-power.com/products/special-devices/radiation-detector-pin-diode/spd9441.html>
<https://www.ssdi-power.com/media/pdf/RC0130B.PDF>
<https://www.ssdi-power.com/media/sp_pdf/AN2011-01_Radiation_PIN_Diode.pdf>
Sensitivity is marginal, but it doesn't saturate at higher doses. At
those high levels, it's use is mostly as a dosimeter, not a
disintegration counter.
<https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/2/2236.html>
etc...
 
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Jan 20 02:50PM -0800

In article <r4kjuglg5hcoq6d508b969h1bk8rq5id5h@4ax.com>,
>geiger counter is for fairly low radiation levels. The ionization
>chamber is for fairly high levels. I've been told that if I need to
>use the ionization chamber device, I'm already dead.
 
Yup... or, at the very least, that you're likely to be radiation-sick
for some time.
 
>If I see some flux left on the PCB from a previous repair, I clean it
>off with water and alcohol separately, and then coat the area with
>some manner of conformal coating or high-voltage corona dope.
 
Even though the chamber itself is sealed, there can be leakage
problems if condensation builds up on the area where the probe wire
comes out through the glass seal. That insulator, and the high-megohm
resistors and the ceramic switch assembly are (according to the
manual) all part of the high-impedance circuit. Any contamination
here causes problems, and I've seen condensation have that effect as
well.
 
I think your approach of an alcohol cleaning, and then good high-Z
conformal coating is probably just the ticket. And, yeah, phenolic-
paper PCBs are rather on the loathsome side, for a bunch of
reasons :-)
 
I've got an old one of these sitting around in a closet. I've been
thinking of turning it into something more useful by gutting it, and
replacing the ion-chamber system with a small PMT and a plastic
scintillation crystal. It still wouldn't be of any real use in a
high-fallout zone but it could make a nice, sensitive survey meter
for looking for NORM of one sort or another.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jan 20 03:07PM -0800

On Thu, 20 Jan 2022 14:02:31 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
 
>disintegration counter.
><https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-documents/app-notes/2/2236.html>
>etc...
 
Also, you use the CMOS sensor in a smartphone as a radiation detector:
"The suitability of smartphone camera sensors for detecting radiation"
<https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92195-y>
Sensitivity is worse than the PIN diode, but either will work in a
high radiation environment.
 
You can also obtain organic plastic scintillating slabs:
<https://www.crystals.saint-gobain.com/radiation-detection-scintillators/plastic-scintillators#>
Just add a photomultiplier tube.
<https://www.hamamatsu.com/us/en/product/optical-sensors/pmt/index.html>
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jan 20 01:12PM -0800

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 17:57:44 +0000 (GMT), mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike)
wrote:
 
 
>He also links a lot of the specific tools needed to open/service
>Macbooks etc. on most of his board-repair related YouTube videos :-
 
>https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos
 
Thanks. I found that MacBook A1989 link at:
<https://repair.wiki/w/A1989_2018_13%E2%80%9D_Touchbar_MacBook_Pro>
However, no disassembly instructions or tool specs. Still, quite
useful for troubleshooting and component level repairs.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
David Farber <farberbear.unspam@aol.com>: Jan 20 02:08PM -0800

On 1/20/2022 1:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> <https://repair.wiki/w/A1989_2018_13%E2%80%9D_Touchbar_MacBook_Pro>
> However, no disassembly instructions or tool specs. Still, quite
> useful for troubleshooting and component level repairs.
 
From this detailed disassembly video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l5SFWA69I0
 
The tools needed in order of disassembly are:
1)Pentalobe tool of unknown size for bottom panel screws
2)T4
3)T5
4)T6
5)Pentalobe 2
 
The problem here is that the video does not explicitly say which size
pentalobe tool is used to remove the bottom panel screws.
When it comes to removing the Wi-Fi screws, the video again says the
screws are pentalobe 2. Does that mean P2 or PL2?
 
Another video gives more specific information when the size in
millimeters is given along with the P(L) size. That is very helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsYsCrOreHo
 
Wikipedia has a good chart which explains how the same sized screw can
have *four* different names for one specific size.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentalobe_screw
 
After reading all the information about these disjointed standards for
these pentalobe screws (and explained previously by whit3rd further back
in this thread), what makes the most sense to me is to make sure you
confirm the correct screw size with the measurement in millimeters of
the screw. For example say, "Pentalobe screw size 1.2mm," not,
"Pentalobe 5."
 
On a side note, there seems to have been a successful lawsuit against
Apple for their faulty displays.
 
https://www.ifixit.com/News/16943/macbook-pro-flexgate-repair-program
 
Thanks for your replies.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA
mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike): Jan 20 10:15PM

In article <drjjuglu39iac5cm3pgiep760c3ork98lo@4ax.com>,
><https://repair.wiki/w/A1989_2018_13%E2%80%9D_Touchbar_MacBook_Pro>
>However, no disassembly instructions or tool specs. Still, quite
>useful for troubleshooting and component level repairs.
 
Tools :- If it wasn't linked on the description of the YT "board repair"
video you looked at, some clues here -- lots of Torx and Triwing and
Pentalobe to keep people out.
 
https://store.rossmanngroup.com/soldering-diy/helpful-tools-extras/screwdrivers.html
 
Looks like Pentalobe PL4 for MacBooks ...
 
They've been doing this crap since the days of the Apple Mac, needing a
"special" long, thin Torx to reach the ridiculously deep-buried screws!
 
Of course, a standard 1/4" "bit set" won't work, because it's down a deep
recess that is too narrow to get a "bit set" down. Real screwdriver, or
go home! :(
 
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk
Juan S <none@anytime.net>: Jan 20 12:34PM -0500

I have a small transmitter that I use for monitoring my property. It
has a sensitive electret mic that feeds the transmitter, but the problem
was that it does not have AGC, which is desired due to loud sudden
disturbances that sometimes occur. The system has 26 dB gain already,
so anything loud coming over the receiver blasts me out of my chair.
 
I recently came across these:
 
shorturl.at/jwCZ0
 
I came across a video where the module was installed into the microphone
of a transmitter to allow increased audio gain and thought it might be
perfect for my situation too. In the video, he mentions the tremendous
gain increase, but uses a variable resistor on the output to reduce it
which is what I would do as well. I do have a question though: since I
am replacing an existing electret which already has voltage for its
bias, what would I need in the audio line going from transmitter to the
now module, a bypass capacitor in the positive line leading from
transmitter to module? Assuming so, what value and type?
 
Thank you.
"Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jan 20 11:09AM -0800

Link is broken.
Juan S <none@anytime.net>: Jan 20 02:20PM -0500

On 1/20/22 2:09 PM, Peter W. wrote:
> Link is broken.
 
Try this one:
 
https://tinyurl.com/39xhut3k
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 2 topics

"Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jan 19 09:51AM -0800

>> They don't respond well to low levels of radiation (background, NORM,
>> uranium glass, Fiesta ware, etc.).
 
Which is why we have a mil.spec. counter with an "alpha-detector" window - an area of very thin material that may be exposed by twisting a cover on the head. And a small side-detector as well.
 
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images2/1/0116/22/pdr-27s-radiac-set-radiation-detector_1_11509f068d2a4a64e50f0476e7ebab00.jpg is a picture of a similar device. Picks up radium-containing glazes nicely.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>: Jan 20 08:42AM

Peter W. wrote:
 
> very thin material that may be exposed by twisting a cover on the head. And a
> small side-detector as well.
 
> https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images2/1/0116/22/pdr-27s-radiac-set-radiation-detector_1_11509f068d2a4a64e50f0476e7ebab00.jpg
 
403 forbidden
presumably it doesn't like direct linking to the image without having first
received cookies from the main worthpoint site, try
 
<https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/pdr-27s-radiac-set-radiation-detector-1797223075>
 
mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike): Jan 19 05:57PM

In article <05jeug9jg7uhq8dvuo3ss2n3i2oah5ot3c@4ax.com>,
 
>iFixit.com.
>Unfortunately, I couldn't find much for your specific MacBook:
><https://www.ifixit.com/Search?query=Macbook%20Pro%20A1989>
 
There's an Apple (and other devices) knowledgebase, courtesy of
Louis Rossmann and community efforts, where you may find all sorts
of tips/hints ...
 
https://wiki2.rossmanngroup.com/index.php
 
He also links a lot of the specific tools needed to open/service
Macbooks etc. on most of his board-repair related YouTube videos :-
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/rossmanngroup/videos
 
--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 7 updates in 3 topics

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jan 18 03:22PM -0800


>No, I'm trying to get away from having to use the battery. Something
>like a crank generator. The original Bendix model from the 50's had
>such a generator built in. It is 1.5VDC, yes and a single D cell.
 
If a hand clank generator is acceptable, then a hand crank cell phone
charger should be a good starting point. Plenty to choose from:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=hand+crank+dynamo+charger>
These will deliver 5.0VDC at about 0.5A. To use it in place of a
battery, you need some way to reduce the voltage to 1.5VDC. This is
called a "buck inverter" (as opposed to a "boost inverter"). These
should work:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/122361481012>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/175088753307>
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/401752426156>
To avoid having to simultaneously crank the generator while taking a
reading, I suggest you add a large value capacitor to the 5V input to
retain some charge while the generator is idle. I'm not sure of a
good value but something like a 3300uF 16V electrolytic capacitor
should be adequate. If it doesn't run the dosimeter reader long
enough, increase the capacitance or add some additional capacitors in
parallel.
 
I have set of 4 dosimeters and a CD V-750 reader. I made the mistake
of storing them with D size alkaline cells installed. The alkaline
cells all leaked and did quite a bit of damage. Anything you can do
to eliminate alkaline cells is probably a good idea. For the matching
CD-V500 Geiger counter, I simply installed a 14500 LiIon cell (with a
1N4007 diode in series to drop the voltage slightly) in place of the
two D cells in series and a AA to D size adapter.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/362743539090>
For charging, I installed a charging connector in the case and use an
external charger.
 
Doing something similar for the dosimeter reader is more difficult
because of the lack of LSD (low self discharge) 1.5V cells. I'll
probably need to build a LiIon 7.4v (two cells) to 1.5V buck inverter.
Currently, I'm using a single Lithium cell:
<https://www.amazon.com/Energizer-Ultimate-Lithium-AA-Batteries/dp/B008OII4TY>
and a AA to D size adapter. It's been stored in the reader for about
1.5 years so far. No leaks and no loss of open circuit cell voltage.
 
One more hint. If you're really preparing for a full blown nuclear
disaster, make sure that your equipment can operate in very high
levels of radiation. Most equipment does not do well, will overload
easily, and produce either no reading or a useless reading.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com>: Jan 19 10:29AM +1100

On 19/01/2022 00:54, Juan S wrote:
> cost next to nothing to try implementing.  I don't really trust that
> batteries would be all that reliable after a crisis, which was why I was
> looking for a non-powered way to allow the 1.5V chargers to still work.
 
Thanks, fair enough.
 
I think you could rely on some Eneloop cells if you swap them for a
freshly charged one every year or two. Check that the voltage is
sufficient if the device was designed for 1.5V. Alkalikes would also do
if you could find good ones, but ones made in the last few years seem to
leak.
danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com>: Jan 18 11:29PM

In <anfeugpj7a2pdsg1m2tr3kp333kb04p6gc@4ax.com> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> writes:
 
[snip]
 
>disaster, make sure that your equipment can operate in very high
>levels of radiation. Most equipment does not do well, will overload
>easily, and produce either no reading or a useless reading.
 
People, too...
 
 
 
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Jan 18 05:19PM -0800

In article <anfeugpj7a2pdsg1m2tr3kp333kb04p6gc@4ax.com>,
>disaster, make sure that your equipment can operate in very high
>levels of radiation. Most equipment does not do well, will overload
>easily, and produce either no reading or a useless reading.
 
As I understand it, that's the reason that most of the radiation
survey meters in the old Civil Defense kits were ionization-chamber
types. They cover ranges of radiation which are actually harmful or
lethal to humans in a relatively short amount of time (minutes to
weeks). They're "no, you really don't want to be here, get the hell
away" devices, just like the dosimeters.
 
They don't respond well to low levels of radiation (background, NORM,
uranium glass, Fiesta ware, etc.).
 
Their biggest disadvantage is that they operate at such high
impedances (to measure leakage in the ionization chamber) that they're
very sensitive to moisture. As I recall, they're supposed to be
"baked" periodically to make sure they're dry, and then stored sealed
in plastic with a dessicant pack.
 
The old Civil Defense kits tended to come with a bunch of these
ionization meters, some dosimeters and chargers for them, and one
Geiger counter. The Geiger was intended more as a training device
than as an actual "when the bombs drop" tool, due to the problem
you mention... in an actual fallout zone, Geiger counters and
scintillation detectors will probably saturate and read low or
zero.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jan 18 03:34PM -0800

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 16:44:36 -0800, David Farber
>the hard drive. The screwdrivers I have do not mach the shape or size of
>the bottom panel case screws. I believe the screws are pentalobe type.
>Does anyone know the exact size screwdriver that will fit these screws?
 
As you mentioned, the SSD and memory chips are all soldered to the
motherboard. No user serviceable parts inside. However, if feel
inspired to fix it, there are numerous teardown guides on iFixit.com.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find much for your specific MacBook:
<https://www.ifixit.com/Search?query=Macbook%20Pro%20A1989>
 
You might want to invest in a pentalobe screwdriver set:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=pentalobe+screwdriver+set>
or something that covers most of the weird fasteners that Apple uses
to keep you out of your equipment:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/165232777917>
 
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Jan 19 11:27AM +1100

On 17/1/22 4:12 pm, whit3rd wrote:
> I'd not recommend trying non-fitting drivers, those screws are stainless and
> generally soft enough that a steel driver can hurt them.
 
 
You do well to recommend that, but in fact, two of the opposing lobes
are only 18 degrees away from being opposite, and the vertical sides and
depth of the lobes form an effective slot for a right-sized screwdriver.
There is very little risk of damaging the screw, as it turns out. The
flat screwdriver is considerably more secure than it would be in a
normal screw slot. Not as strong as a pentalobe, but quite adequate.
three_jeeps <jjhudak@gmail.com>: Jan 18 09:37AM -0800


> Can anyone tell me how models PCG-71312L and PCG-71312M differ?
> Same keyboard and caddy in the two?
 
> Thx, ... P.
 
This vendor claims the keyboards are the same:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112044239367
Googling seems to confirm this but you should double check.
look for kbd for PCG-71312L, then look for keyboard for PCG-71312M. Check if the p/n for the kbds match.
 
No info about the caddy.
Good luck
J
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