sci.electronics.repair - 20 new messages in 7 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Today's lead free story, and a "Mr Cook" moment ... - 11 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8924a25c81bfe18e?hl=en
* nike shoes,jordan shoes(http://www.cntrade09.com) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/498bdabb33f21881?hl=en
* Microwave Oven: Noisy, shuts down sometimes? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8dc6fa75132215e7?hl=en
* Wall penetrating surveillance system - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/585538e9e6d1e03b?hl=en
* Dooney&Bourke Handbags (httpwww.cntrade09.com) - free shipping paypal
payment - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7fa2be3b1d76fdbd?hl=en
* Zenith D52WLCD Problem - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2576c812dd8a3729?hl=en
* Cisco 3750G switch, fans not working - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5bd485fabbda76a0?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today's lead free story, and a "Mr Cook" moment ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8924a25c81bfe18e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 12:13 am
From: "N_Cook"

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:SJRoo.310$JF6.85@newsfe10.ams2...
> Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went off
> altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional symptom
> was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said that he'd
> looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that this problem
was
> caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low voltage + and - rails,
> having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I guess. Anyways, unit would
not
> fault on my bench, and no amount of pushing, prodding, poking, bashing,
> heating or freezing, would provoke it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the
> main board to get a look behind it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit
of
> a long winded job involving removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs,
pot
> nuts and washers, jack nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had
a
> really detailed look at all the joints with a powerful light and my
headband
> magnifier, but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the
two
> ceramic resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on
> those resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third
> one, it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
> 'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with this
> crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad joints
> used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a Biro pen, a
> can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...
>
> Arfa
>

acknowledged

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 2:20 am
From: Geo

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:29:22 +0100, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

<snip>
> How much longer are we going to have to put up with this
>crap ?

Until we get out of EU?

Otherwise suggest forceful multiple feebdback to manufacturer on their quality
failures.

--
Geo

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 2:37 am
From: JW

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:29:22 +0100 "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
wrote in Message id: <SJRoo.310$JF6.85@newsfe10.ams2>:

>Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went off
>altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional symptom
>was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said that he'd
>looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that this problem was
>caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low voltage + and - rails,
>having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I guess. Anyways, unit would not
>fault on my bench, and no amount of pushing, prodding, poking, bashing,
>heating or freezing, would provoke it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the
>main board to get a look behind it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit of
>a long winded job involving removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs, pot
>nuts and washers, jack nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had a
>really detailed look at all the joints with a powerful light and my headband
>magnifier, but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the two
>ceramic resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on
>those resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third
>one, it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
>'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with this
>crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad joints
>used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a Biro pen, a
>can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...

Any time I have a intermittent problem with a RoHS circuit board, I bring
it to work and put it through an old Hollis wave soldering machine that
still uses lead. Don't even bother to trouble-shoot first. Fuck lead free.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 3:36 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"JW" <none@dev.null> wrote in message
news:1bm8a6p1a9f6pqv025320qiscj6ul50pq8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:29:22 +0100 "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
> wrote in Message id: <SJRoo.310$JF6.85@newsfe10.ams2>:
>
>>Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went off
>>altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional symptom
>>was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said that he'd
>>looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that this problem
>>was
>>caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low voltage + and - rails,
>>having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I guess. Anyways, unit would
>>not
>>fault on my bench, and no amount of pushing, prodding, poking, bashing,
>>heating or freezing, would provoke it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the
>>main board to get a look behind it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit
>>of
>>a long winded job involving removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs,
>>pot
>>nuts and washers, jack nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had
>>a
>>really detailed look at all the joints with a powerful light and my
>>headband
>>magnifier, but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the
>>two
>>ceramic resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on
>>those resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third
>>one, it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
>>'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with this
>>crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad joints
>>used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a Biro pen, a
>>can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...
>
> Any time I have a intermittent problem with a RoHS circuit board, I bring
> it to work and put it through an old Hollis wave soldering machine that
> still uses lead. Don't even bother to trouble-shoot first. Fuck lead free.

Well yes, that's all very well, but as a professional repairer, I'm
unfortunately bound by law to use appropriate repair materials to preserve
the bloody RoHS certification. It would be just my luck to finish up as the
soldering equivalent of the poor sod who became known as "The Metric
Martyr", and was jailed for selling his fruit and veg to old dears, using
pounds and ounces ...

But I know exactly where you're coming from :-)

Arfa

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 4:23 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:29:22 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

> Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went
> off altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional
> symptom was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said
> that he'd looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that
> this problem was caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low
> voltage + and - rails, having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I
> guess. Anyways, unit would not fault on my bench, and no amount of
> pushing, prodding, poking, bashing, heating or freezing, would provoke
> it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the main board to get a look behind
> it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit of a long winded job involving
> removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs, pot nuts and washers, jack
> nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had a really detailed
> look at all the joints with a powerful light and my headband magnifier,
> but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the two ceramic
> resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on those
> resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third one,
> it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
> 'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with
> this crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad
> joints used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a
> Biro pen, a can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...
>
> Arfa

I know you have but I will say this anyway. Compared to pulling a certain
Mackie 16 ch mixer apart where all sixteen channels are on one board, and
where I counted 102 mini shaft nuts removed with needle nose because I
didn't have a shaft nut driver that small, and an additional 48 philips
screws just to replace one LED, your experience with the Fender is a walk
in the park on a sunny day.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 6:24 am
From: "N_Cook"

I suppose as Fender is now a pseudo-American company then no warning green
RoHS stickers on the outside or PbF or similar on the overlay.
If companies, in general, were concerned about reliability AND have to live
with PbF then they would have specified ring-barbs to be formed around any
thru-board leads

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 8:22 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Arfa Daily wrote:
>
> Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went off
> altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional symptom
> was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said that he'd
> looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that this problem was
> caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low voltage + and - rails,
> having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I guess. Anyways, unit would not
> fault on my bench, and no amount of pushing, prodding, poking, bashing,
> heating or freezing, would provoke it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the
> main board to get a look behind it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit of
> a long winded job involving removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs, pot
> nuts and washers, jack nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had a
> really detailed look at all the joints with a powerful light and my headband
> magnifier, but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the two
> ceramic resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on
> those resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third
> one, it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
> 'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with this
> crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad joints
> used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a Biro pen, a
> can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...

Its time for a full blown ROHS revolt. String the morons up on light
poles as a warning to other idiot Beauracrats. :)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 10:37 am
From: PlainBill47@yawho.com

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:22:28 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Arfa Daily wrote:
>>
>> Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went off
>> altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional symptom
>> was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said that he'd
>> looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that this problem was
>> caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low voltage + and - rails,
>> having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I guess. Anyways, unit would not
>> fault on my bench, and no amount of pushing, prodding, poking, bashing,
>> heating or freezing, would provoke it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the
>> main board to get a look behind it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit of
>> a long winded job involving removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs, pot
>> nuts and washers, jack nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had a
>> really detailed look at all the joints with a powerful light and my headband
>> magnifier, but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the two
>> ceramic resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on
>> those resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third
>> one, it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
>> 'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with this
>> crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad joints
>> used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a Biro pen, a
>> can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...
>
>
> Its time for a full blown ROHS revolt. String the morons up on light
>poles as a warning to other idiot Beauracrats. :)
While I wouldn't suggest such a drastic action (neutering them and
their children would be more beneficial), I do applaud the goal.

The fact is that lead in the food chain IS a problem. Banning lead
in paints (in particular paints used in children't toys), in the
paints and glazes used on ceramic containers, etc is a very good idea.
However when they reach the point of degrading the reliability of
items which an infant would ever be able to chew on, they have gone
beyond the bounds of reason. I have even heard an allegation
(unverified) that there is a move to remove all books printed before
1970 because the ink may contain lead.

PlainBill

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 2:28 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

PlainBill47@yawho.com wrote:
>
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:22:28 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Arfa Daily wrote:
> >>
> >> Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went off
> >> altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional symptom
> >> was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said that he'd
> >> looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that this problem was
> >> caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low voltage + and - rails,
> >> having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I guess. Anyways, unit would not
> >> fault on my bench, and no amount of pushing, prodding, poking, bashing,
> >> heating or freezing, would provoke it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the
> >> main board to get a look behind it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit of
> >> a long winded job involving removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs, pot
> >> nuts and washers, jack nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had a
> >> really detailed look at all the joints with a powerful light and my headband
> >> magnifier, but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the two
> >> ceramic resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on
> >> those resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third
> >> one, it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
> >> 'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with this
> >> crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad joints
> >> used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a Biro pen, a
> >> can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...
> >
> >
> > Its time for a full blown ROHS revolt. String the morons up on light
> >poles as a warning to other idiot Beauracrats. :)
>
> While I wouldn't suggest such a drastic action (neutering them and
> their children would be more beneficial), I do applaud the goal.

Wimp! Why not do both? ;-)

> The fact is that lead in the food chain IS a problem. Banning lead
> in paints (in particular paints used in children't toys), in the
> paints and glazes used on ceramic containers, etc is a very good idea.

Lead in solder is an alloy and less likely to form the lead based
compounds that get into food. It would make more sense to make
recycling easier. That would keep the solder in a closed loop. It
would also help recover some precious metals that are lost in the waste
stream.

> However when they reach the point of degrading the reliability of
> items which an infant would ever be able to chew on, they have gone
> beyond the bounds of reason. I have even heard an allegation
> (unverified) that there is a move to remove all books printed before
> 1970 because the ink may contain lead.

They shouldn't be eating books. :)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 6:35 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.09.30.11.23.04@lmao.lol.lol...
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 02:29:22 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:
>
>> Fender combo. Owner complained that sound level varied, or sound went
>> off altogether for brief periods, after a half hour of use. Additional
>> symptom was that the status LEDs on the footpedal flickered. He said
>> that he'd looked it up on the net, and many people had reported that
>> this problem was caused by the two ceramic feed resistors in the low
>> voltage + and - rails, having bad joints. OK, we've all seen this, I
>> guess. Anyways, unit would not fault on my bench, and no amount of
>> pushing, prodding, poking, bashing, heating or freezing, would provoke
>> it, so reluctantly, I had to remove the main board to get a look behind
>> it. I say reluctantly, because it's a bit of a long winded job involving
>> removal of all of the (grub screwed) knobs, pot nuts and washers, jack
>> nuts and washers etc. When the board was out, I had a really detailed
>> look at all the joints with a powerful light and my headband magnifier,
>> but no joints actually looked bad anywhere, including on the two ceramic
>> resistors. So I went for the Mr Cook test and grabbed the wires on those
>> resistors one by one with pliers, and pulled. And Lo! On the third one,
>> it pulled cleanly and easily from the joint, leaving the now dreaded
>> 'volcano' behind. How much longer are we going to have to put up with
>> this crap ? It's not as if it's the quick 'good little earner' that bad
>> joints used to be when you could find them in a minute or two with a
>> Biro pen, a can of freezer, and a Mk I eyeball ...
>>
>> Arfa
>
> I know you have but I will say this anyway. Compared to pulling a certain
> Mackie 16 ch mixer apart where all sixteen channels are on one board, and
> where I counted 102 mini shaft nuts removed with needle nose because I
> didn't have a shaft nut driver that small, and an additional 48 philips
> screws just to replace one LED, your experience with the Fender is a walk
> in the park on a sunny day.
>
>
>
Oh I know, Meat, I know ... Not so long back, I did a similar one with over
100 knobs. I had to take a picture of it to make sure they all went back
where they should. Just putting the knobs back on took about a half hour,
let alone all the nuts and washers ... !!

Arfa

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 6:59 pm
From: Spamm Trappe

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:37:22 -0700, PlainBill47@yawho.com wrote:
>
> The fact is that lead in the food chain IS a problem. Banning lead
> in paints (in particular paints used in children't toys), in the
> paints and glazes used on ceramic containers, etc is a very good idea.

I'm not so sure. Ever since 'they' removed lead from toys, house paint,
gasoline, candle wicks, now solder, and gawd knows what else, we ("we":
the U.S.) have had year after year of dumber and dumber children.

Don't get me started about how out of whack global weather has become
since 'they' banned atmospheric testing of thermonuclear weapons...

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TOPIC: nike shoes,jordan shoes(http://www.cntrade09.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/498bdabb33f21881?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Microwave Oven: Noisy, shuts down sometimes?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8dc6fa75132215e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 3:17 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> You don't need the special torx driver, just use a Dremel
> to slice a slot into each screw head...

True, but you should have no trouble finding an inexpensive torx set. This
would be less hassle than grinding slots.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 4:25 am
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:03:10 -0400, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> Fairly new oven - but out of warranty.
>
> Makes a lot of noise when running.

What /kind/ of noise? Describe. What make and model oven?

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wall penetrating surveillance system
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/585538e9e6d1e03b?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zenith D52WLCD Problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2576c812dd8a3729?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 8:25 am
From: Sking10

I have this tv and got the orange light to replace, and then flashing
red light to replace the bulb. After installation, I wasn't able to
reset the bulb counter. I tried doing pressing the MENU key over and
over again to get to the OSD menu. But wouldn't work. Then after about
ten minutes of watching TV the screen started to get static across the
screen. Kind of like snow but only in random spots. To diagnose I then
disconnected everything and tried going back to the menu screen which
I still was getting this fuzzy/snowy spots. So I know the issue isn't
due to my cable connection.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 10:40 am
From: PlainBill47@yawho.com

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:25:08 -0700 (PDT), Sking10 <sking10@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have this tv and got the orange light to replace, and then flashing
>red light to replace the bulb. After installation, I wasn't able to
>reset the bulb counter. I tried doing pressing the MENU key over and
>over again to get to the OSD menu. But wouldn't work. Then after about
>ten minutes of watching TV the screen started to get static across the
>screen. Kind of like snow but only in random spots. To diagnose I then
>disconnected everything and tried going back to the menu screen which
>I still was getting this fuzzy/snowy spots. So I know the issue isn't
>due to my cable connection.
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Steve
Here's the iformation on resetting the counter.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/TV-VCR-Stereo-1749/D52WLCD-Zenith.htm

PlainBill

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 30 2010 10:44 am
From: PlainBill47@yawho.com

On Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:25:08 -0700 (PDT), Sking10 <sking10@gmail.com>
wrote:

The service manual is available on elektrotanya.com

PlainBill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cisco 3750G switch, fans not working
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5bd485fabbda76a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 1 2010 12:50 am
From: "bob@bfisk.demon.co.uk"

Hi,
I have one of these on my workbench and both the fans aren't working,
the switch itself is fine. On inspection it appears that an SMD
component has come off the motherboard, Z1. Whether this was due to
bad soldering or if it's been knocked I can't tell. There doesn't
appear to be any signs of physical damage or heat.
Tracing the circuit shows that the power to the fans was delivered by
this component and I would suspect it was a zener. Without the
original I wouldn't have a clue what the value was and these days it's
highly unlikely to be marked anyway!
I'm unable to find any servicing info on these boxes so in desperation
I'm hoping somone might have one they could look inside. The only
other 3750's we have are single fan units and the power arrangement is
different.
I've also left a note on the Cisco site but so far not received any
replies.

Thanks
Bob

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