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N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Mar 30 03:05PM +0100 The fancy plastic sheets for distributing the lamp light, microprism sheet etc. A thunder-sheet sound-effect "machine" for am-dram is one. A fancy lamp-shade?

oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 30 01:01AM -0500 FROM: https://www.surplussales.com/Microphones-Audio/MicroAudio-7.html   Now, ***THIS*** is what I call a SOUND SYSTEM !!!   (For STEREO, you'll need 2 of these)   Total audio output power (for two amps), 20KW. Tube filaments operate 6 volts @ 60 amps (each tube) Weight 5000 lbs 230 or 460 vac, 3 phase MAINS power required to operate. Speakers *NOT* included.   No schematic on website (Damnit).   ONLY $50,000 plus S+H.   The WL-5736 output tubes can be seen here: http://lampes-et-tubes.info/tt/tt004.php?l=e   Or buy one tube on ebay for $1665.00 plus $50 Shipping.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghouse-WL-5736-tube-/322227283515#ht_220wt_938 ---   [Web Quote]   (EQP) WEST-FG-10 Westinghouse type FG-10 Audio Amplifier - 10 kw. Accepts 600 ohm input signal, 10 mW maximum and produces 10 kw output at impedances from 1.6 ohms up. Frequency response 30 - 10,000 Hz @ ±1.5%. Total harmonic distortion less than 5%. Reduced output available below 30 Hz and up to 20,000 Hz. Multiple tapped output transformer allows a wide range of output impedances.   Uses a McIntosh K-1071, 200 watt amplifier as a driver, feeding four (4) WL-5736 triodes with plate dissipation of 2500 watts per tube and maximum DC input power of 4200 watts.   Useful for driving vibration testing equipment or other industrial applications. Single channel, not stereo.   Another feature of this unit is that it only requires 23 square feet of floor space in a 82-1/2" tall cabinet. Condition of unit is excellent. Probably never used, but 60 years of dust. Manufactured in 1953. Weighs 2,500 lbs. Manual is included. Sold as-is. No warranty expressed or implied.   * Input power: 230 or 460 vac, 3 phase @ 50 Hz or 60 Hz * Dimensions: 34" x 44" x 82-1/2"H   $25,000 each

"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Mar 30 09:13AM +0100 wrote in message news:ud7pdc1irot26c3fsr1snjrdoispide4or@4ax.com...   FROM: https://www.surplussales.com/Microphones-Audio/MicroAudio-7.html   Now, ***THIS*** is what I call a SOUND SYSTEM !!!   (For STEREO, you'll need 2 of these)   Total audio output power (for two amps), 20KW. Tube filaments operate 6 volts @ 60 amps (each tube) Weight 5000 lbs 230 or 460 vac, 3 phase MAINS power required to operate. Speakers *NOT* included.   No schematic on website (Damnit).   ONLY $50,000 plus S+H.   The WL-5736 output tubes can be seen here: http://lampes-et-tubes.info/tt/tt004.php?l=e   Or buy one tube on ebay for $1665.00 plus $50 Shipping.   http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghouse-WL-5736-tube-/322227283515#ht_220wt_938 ---   [Web Quote]   (EQP) WEST-FG-10 Westinghouse type FG-10 Audio Amplifier - 10 kw. Accepts 600 ohm input signal, 10 mW maximum and produces 10 kw output at impedances from 1.6 ohms up. Frequency response 30 - 10,000 Hz @ ą1.5%. Total harmonic distortion less than 5%. Reduced output available below 30 Hz and up to 20,000 Hz. Multiple tapped output transformer allows a wide range of output impedances.   Uses a McIntosh K-1071, 200 watt amplifier as a driver, feeding four (4) WL-5736 triodes with plate dissipation of 2500 watts per tube and maximum DC input power of 4200 watts.   Useful for driving vibration testing equipment or other industrial applications. Single channel, not stereo.   Another feature of this unit is that it only requires 23 square feet of floor space in a 82-1/2" tall cabinet. Condition of unit is excellent. Probably never used, but 60 years of dust. Manufactured in 1953. Weighs 2,500 lbs. Manual is included. Sold as-is. No warranty expressed or implied.   * Input power: 230 or 460 vac, 3 phase @ 50 Hz or 60 Hz * Dimensions: 34" x 44" x 82-1/2"H   $25,000 each       *********************************************************         Pah, you can get 40kW of amp in a 1U box with close to zero distortion for around $1500. Now THAT is an amplifier.   https://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=PKN3PHASE40K       Gareth.

ohger1s@gmail.com: Mar 30 04:31AM -0700 On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 4:13:56 AM UTC-4, Gareth Magennis wrote:   > Gareth.       I think you're off by a decimal place unless the exchange rate has changed!

Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 29 11:42AM -0500 On 3/29/2017 11:33 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > If you must use tubes, I could probably design a cascode > Nuvistor RF probe for the occasion.   Duly noted so your ego remains intact this time. ;-)   <http://bama.edebris.com/download/ameco/pcl-p/AMECO%20PCL.pdf>     -- Jeff-1.0 wa6fwi http://www.foxsmercantile.com   --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Mar 29 09:44AM -0700 On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 09:23:52 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled >to your informed opinion. Nobody is entitled to be ignorant." >Harlan Ellison   I beg to differ. I one did some work in a sausage factory (adjacent to feed lot) which caused me to loose my taste for sausage. Believe me, you do not want to know how sausage is made. If the public was properly informed, the entire sausage industry would collapse. Better ignorant than informed.   It's like that in many areas, where carnal knowledge of the internal workings and operations can be seriously repulsive. If you knew the details of the private lives of historical figures, public personalities, politicians, and actors, you would probably be disappointed. Just meeting some of these in person can produce a similar reaction. Better to believe the myth than to be disappointed by the truth.     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Mar 29 10:01AM -0700 On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:42:41 -0500, Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net> wrote:   >> If you must use tubes, I could probably design a cascode >> Nuvistor RF probe for the occasion.   >Duly noted so your ego remains intact this time. ;-)   Thanks. It's rather difficult to be diplomatic and insulting simultaneously. I'm sure you're now planning how to retaliate.   ><http://bama.edebris.com/download/ameco/pcl-p/AMECO%20PCL.pdf>   Nope. That's an RF amplifier. I went looking for an RF probe schematic based on a Nuvistor, but couldn't find anything. There are some TEK oscilloscope front end circuits that use a Nuvistor, that could probably be converted into something useful. Basically, one needs a broadband impedance converter. Cascode (common emitter driving a common base) design seems right. It would take two 6CW4 Nuvistors, a length of 3/4" copper pipe, and some high voltage. If that's to messy, a single tube in a cathode follower derangement should work. It might get warm enough to be uncomfortable, but that's the price we pay for working with tubes.   Nuvistors are cheap on eBay but sockets are pricy: <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=nuvistor> Hmmm... LTSpice models available for various Nuvistors. Never mind. I don't need yet another project.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Mar 29 01:17PM -0400

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 29 10:16AM -0700 On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 12:44:24 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > me, you do not want to know how sausage is made. If the public was > properly informed, the entire sausage industry would collapse. Better > ignorant than informed.   Oh, I dunno. I am of the belief that one should not engage in an activity unless one is willing to engage in the necessary and enabling first steps at some level more than theoretical.   Eat chicken much? Learn to kill, gut and pluck. Eat meat much? Eat fish much?   True, this society has gotten so far from the 'squeal' end of the process that those enjoying the bacon rarely have a clue. But it is that 'squeal' where reality starts in, and the moment that end-user loses the connection entirely, we are done as a society.   There is a working organic farm not far from our summer house run by a very hard-working couple who are also friends of ours. We have learned a great deal from them. But, until one is willing to put a bullet in the steer's brain, hoist it (no longer 'him') up on a pulley, gut, clean, skin, and butcher it, it is too abstract to be real. We have canine teeth for a reason, and we produce protein busting enzymes in our saliva for a reason. We need the intellectual as well as intestinal fortitude to live with the connections.   Having made sausage - I have no problems with the process.   The difference between ham and eggs?   The chicken is involved. The pig is committed.

oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 02:22PM -0500 On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:01:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:   ><http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=nuvistor> >Hmmm... LTSpice models available for various Nuvistors. >Never mind. I don't need yet another project. For the record, I was ready to buy that kit from qrpkits.com, but found out they do not recommend it for over 50V. I emailed the vendor and asked if it could be upgraded for tube circuits. He told me that he can not recommend that, because it could be a shock hazzard. Although I do feel competent to make such a modification, I knew that would mean spending more money, and wasting more time to build a usable probe. Instead, I found a semi over priced old Eico RF probe (blue one) on Ebay, and just paid the price. As soon as it comes, I'll be all set....   I never heard of using a nuvistor in a probe, but I am sure it's possible. Seems kind of senseless though, when a simple diode along with a few other parts will do the trick. Just because I prefer to work on tubes, dont mean I wont use semi-conductors. For audio, tubes have a superior sound. For my abilities and test gear, I'll take tubes any day to work on. But I also do not mind working on older devices that contain transistors, such as my XAM amp. It's the devices that contain IC chips I detest. I'm not saying they are bad, and I am well aware my computer and a lot of other stuff contain them. But I strongly dislike working on that stuff. That was the main reason I stopped electronics in the late 70's as a hobby, and even more so as a repair business. It's not just the fact that the stuff is very hard to work on, but also that parts are far too hard to get.   As far as all thge political discussions that evolved in this thread, I have no further comments. I hate politics. However, I know it all began when I made a comment about todays youth being fat and lazy. That is my opinion, and I see it all the time. Some of my very good friends have kids who are now in their 20's and even their parents (my friends) say the same thing. I see it all the time. That dont mean I am right, it's just my opinion, buty I have a right to my opinion, and to express it based on my "freedom of speech" as well as just saying what I feel. Then again, there are a few exceptions. I know one young man who is a very hard worker and he has a good head on his shoulders. But he is one in 100 or 1000. Most of today's youth have no goals. They spend their time staring at their cellphones, work as little as possible (or not at all), and eat as much as they can cram down their throats, and it shows!   However, none of that has anytrhing to do with the topic of this newsgroup, aside from the fact that I would likely win a bet if I said that no one on this group is under the age of 45. Today's youth dont care to do electronics as a hobby. Nor do they care to do much of anything that involves using their brains or muscles. But I am not gonna join them. They can sit in their fancy restaurants and bars spending their parents money, and talking on a cellphone to the person sitting next to them. None of which makes any sense to me...... I'm just glad I was born in the 50's when life still had meaning. My only complaint about being born at that time is all the aches and pains I feel now! Getting old sucks! But I doubt I need to explain that to any of you old farts :)

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 29 12:54PM -0700 > As far as all thge political discussions that evolved in this thread, I > have no further comments. I hate politics. However, I know it all began > when I made a comment about todays youth being fat and lazy. <   If so, their parents are responsible, and we are either the parents or responsible for them.   Making us 100% responsible for the state of our youth - good, bad or indifferent.   Writing for myself, I am quietly proud of our kids, their kids and what eacn and ever one of them is doing with their lives - from second grade to senior partner. Not a fat one or a lazy one in the bunch.   Pretty much true of nephews, nieces and more.   A little bit of education does appear to help, however.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 10:09PM -0500 On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 12:54:10 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com> wrote:     >A little bit of education does appear to help, however.   >Peter Wieck >Melrose Park, PA     I fully agree about the parents. But these days, you cant lift a finger or you'll be charged with abuse. An old spanking stick still has it's place. I know I got that stick several times and it was far from abuse. It just made me think....   But it does go beyond the parents. There is a lot to blame on the schools. From what I hear, most of them no longer have shop classes or anything like that. Heck, when I was in HS, I took every shop class they had. Wood shop, metal shop, motor shop, electronics shop, and more.... but I guess that stuff is "too dangerous" for kids these days. So, instead of cutting off a finger on a table saw, the kids lose their limbs from diabetes due to their obesity.... Or lose their lives from drug abuse because they are so damn bored....   I never had any children, so I cant brag about them.... Glad yours turned out good! But I will brag that my four legged kids are really good! (And I do have a REAL kid, a pet goat) :)

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 30 04:27AM -0700 All whiny Blather Snipped.   It comes down to the parents - 100% and without reservation. Schools, from pre-school to graduate school are mines, knowledge is extracted from them with effort, time and concentration. They do not "impart" knowledge at any level. And, the ore exists even in the poorest schools. It really does. Been there.   If parents prepare their children in that extraction process, they will learn. If the parents do not, they will not.   Shop Classes: That is a matter of community values. Shop classes require a dedicated staff, expensive tools, space and maintenance. If the community values the product of these classes, they will happen. It's called Taxes.   We pay very nearly $10,000/year in dedicated school taxes. It will be 2042 before we pay back the system for the education extracted by our two, even at that rate. And right now, we are investing in the next generation of kids and insuring that they have the same basic opportunities as ours did. A very simple concept.   Get over yourself. This is not an external problem. It is internal to all of us - what are our values? Are they essentially selfish? I have mine! Or are they focused on providing and supporting a community that will, in turn support us and our values into the future? I am 100% responsible for my condition in life, and good or bad, that is the way it is. There is no one to blame, nothing has been taken from me that I was unwilling to give, nor has anything been given to me other than opportunity. That is the difference between a democracy - and anything else. Ours, by the way, is threatened.   And, to twist the knife a little - neither of my parents spoke English as their first language. But despite all that, they provided me with infinite opportunity, and infinite support, and were excellent examples on how to work it out.   I have written this before, but sometimes the first application of the clue-stick does not take:   Keep in mind that the Average American:   Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%). Does not have a passport (64%). Speaks one language – badly (74%). Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%). Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%). Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%) Cannot name the three branches of government (64%) Cannot read at a college level (83%) Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions. 60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year. Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion). Only 71.2% of eligible voters are registered. Only 57.9% of registered voters voted in 2012. Meaning that the average American eligible to vote does not vote (only 41.5% net). Not much changed in early statistics for 2016, although the change was to greater participation (44%). The Average American still does not vote.   This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with mil.Spec. ignorance.   Quit your bitching - and work it out. It really is you, so only you can change it.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 10:22PM -0500 On Thu, 02 Mar 2017 09:58:26 -0500, Bob Engelhardt >Kill-a-watt on the input showed 200w being used, and 54w output. 25% >more or less. I thought that a SMPS would be way more efficient than that.   >Bob   I had an older Pentium computer that came with a 100W PS. It worked fien until I added more RAM and an extra Harddrive. Then it would randomly crash or just do a reboot for no reason. Shortly afterwards, the PS just died. I bought a 350W PS and never had another problem with that computer. It's called RESERVE POWER. Under normal use, it only uses 54W, but add a few drives and run it real hard, and the power use demand rises.   This is about the same as an audio amplifier. You may have the output tubes or transistors that will pump out 100W, but if your power supply cant furnish the reserve power on high demand heavy bass loads, you will hear a lot of distortion, or lose power, or worse....

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