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"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 28 12:23PM -0700 Some basics:   a) ALL LED lamps should be used base-down unless otherwise marked. Yes, there are LED lamps designed for horizontal, vertical, base-up and base-down applications. But if UNMARKED, base-down only. b) The driver (what is in the base) emits heat. Approximately 80% of all the heat generated by the lamp. The other 20% is spread throughout the emitters and in terms of 'feel' will be negligible. c) Keep in mind that an LED lamp, on average, makes about 150 - 200 lumens per watt. Let's use 200 for this discussion. d) This lamp will make very roughly 6,400 lumens, and about 26 watts in heat at the base. Note that the 10,000 lumens advertised is what is known in the industry as "Flash" lumens - the first 3 seconds that power is applied to the LEDs for the first time - and then only. e) A typical incandescent lamp produces about 17 lumens per watt these days. But heat is emitted across the entire envelope, not concentrated in the base as with CFL or LED lamps. f) Hence, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, and children of all ages - BASE DOWN unless marked otherwise. AND!!! the lamp base rating should be observed as compared to actual light delivered. g) Meaning - if a base is rated for "60 watts", an ~1.100-lumen lamp should be pretty much the limit of what is installed in it, whether incandescent, CFL or LED.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 28 12:35PM -0700 > If you're growing at home, the green is nearly all wasted as little gets absorbed. It therefore doesn't make sense to produce it - subject to an assortment of conditions, eg if you want white light for other reasons.   LED lamps these days may be controlled for spectrum to a remarkably fine degree. I work in, but not for, a hospital, and we, as the landlord are relamping approximately 1,000,000 s.f. of space including everything from ORs through research labs to animal, bacterial and plant facilities. You may bet, very safely, that in many of the labs and procedure rooms, CRI, Kelvin and Color are critical at many levels.   Yet, we are using perhaps two different basic lamps throughout with CRI, Kelvin & Color being controlled primarily via the drivers, not the emitters. Not the Kelvin and Color are very nearly, but not quite the same thing - and the critical parameter is CRI (Color Rendering Index).   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: May 28 12:49PM -0700 On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 8:14:10 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:     > At the time, the authorities were monitoring household electric bills. > Any sudden and stable rise in consumption implied that the household > was using artificial lighting to grow something.   And sometimes you can discover the same with just some basic observational skills:   https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03194/haarlem2_3194129b.jpg

tabbypurr@gmail.com: May 28 02:02PM -0700 > Some basics:   > a) ALL LED lamps should be used base-down unless otherwise marked. Yes, there are LED lamps designed for horizontal, vertical, base-up and base-down applications. But if UNMARKED, base-down only.   that [partially] applies to the higher power lamps only. 3w reflector lamps are good in any position, and are of course mostly used facing downward. Partially means lamp life is affected, but it still works.   > b) The driver (what is in the base) emits heat. Approximately 80% of all the heat generated by the lamp. The other 20% is spread throughout the emitters and in terms of 'feel' will be negligible.   No. The LEDs are the load, the driver is somewhere vaguely in the 90% region of efficiency, therefore the LEDs emit around 10x as much heat as the driver. Some lamps couple the LED heat to the base as a way to get some more heat out, a lot don't. Your belief would require 25% efficient SMPSUs! Even a crude 1 transistor smpsu using a screw for an inductor core can beat that.   > c) Keep in mind that an LED lamp, on average, makes about 150 - 200 lumens per watt. Let's use 200 for this discussion.   15w for 1500 lumens is currently typical for domestic lamps, or 100lpw.   > g) Meaning - if a base is rated for "60 watts", an ~1.100-lumen lamp should be pretty much the limit of what is installed in it, whether incandescent, CFL or LED.   > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   What in your opinion is the problem with a 100w equivalent 15w LED in an open ventilated 20w rated lampholder?     NT

tabbypurr@gmail.com: May 28 02:06PM -0700 > LED lamps these days may be controlled for spectrum to a remarkably fine degree. I work in, but not for, a hospital, and we, as the landlord are relamping approximately 1,000,000 s.f. of space including everything from ORs through research labs to animal, bacterial and plant facilities. You may bet, very safely, that in many of the labs and procedure rooms, CRI, Kelvin and Color are critical at many levels.   > Yet, we are using perhaps two different basic lamps throughout with CRI, Kelvin & Color being controlled primarily via the drivers, not the emitters.   that is confused. CCT is determined by the emitters, of which those lamps have at least 2 of different CCT, or 3 R G & B. Adjusting the PSU determines which gets how much current, thus determining final CCT. It does not of course determine the CCT of each separate LED emitter, those are fixed by the LEDs themselves.     NT

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 29 04:00AM -0700 Tabby:   You are about 3 years behind the times with LEDs. Suffice it that that is an eternity in the lighting business. And about covers your very nearly complete ignorance of what is in the market today.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: May 29 05:17AM -0700 My yard light and my porch light are base down.   Every other lamp in my house is base up. I would think that is true for many people, probably most.   I have only a couple of incandescents left, most were converted to CFL and then as CFL got harder to find and LED cheaper, to LED.   If it's true these should not be mounted base up, then manufacturers have been way overselling the benefits. In particular the supposed longer life of the more expensive bulb does not really exist, if it's only true base down.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 29 05:46AM -0700 On Wednesday, May 29, 2019 at 8:17:28 AM UTC-4, Tim R wrote:   > Every other lamp in my house is base up. I would think that is true for many people, probably most.   > I have only a couple of incandescents left, most were converted to CFL and then as CFL got harder to find and LED cheaper, to LED.   > If it's true these should not be mounted base up, then manufacturers have been way overselling the benefits. In particular the supposed longer life of the more expensive bulb does not really exist, if it's only true base down.   Note that lamps designed for base-up applications such as spots and PARs are designed for base-up applications.   Otherwise, look carefully on the packaging for standard Edison-Base lamps. Most will either have an icon indicating base position(s) or some verbiage to that end. Those that do not are designed for base-down installation. Please also note that this goes all the way back to incandescent lamps, with early 3-way lamps marked for base position.   https://eyehortilux.com/grower-education/hid-lights/lamp-operating-positions/   Is one example specifically applicable to HID lamps.   Putting a lamp out of position is not immediately fatal, but it will shorten the life of the lamp.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: May 29 05:57AM -0700 > Putting a lamp out of position is not immediately fatal, but it will shorten the life of the lamp.   > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   Given that most applications are base up, would there be an advantage to choosing CFL vs LED?   My LED bulbs seem to have a heat sink. CFLs don't, I've taken a couple of failed ones apart to see what's inside. Is there gas inside the envelope of an LED, so it transfers some heat to the bulb shape?   Any heat source generates convection air flow, as long as the fixture isn't enclosed.

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: May 29 06:13AM -0700 Now I know what's inside an LED:   https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=inside+led+bulb&sid=26254C6E79A4645C0E2F4105785965D7&jsoncbid=0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dinside%2bled%2bbulb%26FORM%3dQSRE1&view=detail&mmscn=vwrc&mid=56A1E79FC2CF5978082256A1E79FC2CF59780822&FORM=WRVORC

tabbypurr@gmail.com: May 29 08:11AM -0700 > You are about 3 years behind the times with LEDs. Suffice it that that is an eternity in the lighting business. And about covers your very nearly complete ignorance of what is in the market today.   > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   Er no, that is what's standard fare for domestic lighting.     NT

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 29 08:46AM -0700 > Er no, that is what's standard fare for domestic lighting.   Is GB really that far behind the rest of the world? Or is it just you?   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 28 12:09PM -0700 The Troll is back. Please do not feed the troll!   Now, one may always shop locally and pay cash. No trail. But, that would be beyond the troll's already limited thought process.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

"Arlen G. Holder" <arlingholder@nospam.net>: May 29 06:45AM On Sat, 18 May 2019 12:05:45 -0500, Fox's Mercantile wrote:   > Piss the fuck off.   Hi Snit,   Some day, you'll post as an adult would Snit, & not as a child does. o Apparently not today.

Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: May 29 06:12AM -0500 On 5/29/2019 1:45 AM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:   > Hi Snit,   > Some day, you'll post as an adult would Snit, & not as a child does. > o Apparently not today.   It only took you 11 days to reply. Too busy masturbating listening to yourself spout meaningless bullshit?   If you think you're pissing me off by calling me snit, you are sadly mistaken. You're just proving, once again, what an ignorant cunt you are.     -- Jeff-1.0 wa6fwi http://www.foxsmercantile.com   --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com>: May 29 01:46PM +0100 On Tue, 28 May 2019 12:09:37 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >The Troll is back. Please do not feed the troll!   You just did!

Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: May 29 09:52AM -0500 On 5/29/2019 7:46 AM, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote: > <peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:   >> The Troll is back. Please do not feed the troll!   > You just did!   No, "feeding the Troll" is engaging it in what ever stupid bullshit they are posting.   -- Jeff-1.0 wa6fwi http://www.foxsmercantile.com   --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

"Arlen G. Holder" <arlingholder@nospam.net>: May 29 03:38PM On Wed, 29 May 2019 06:12:57 -0500, Foxs Mercantile wrote:   > Too busy masturbating listening to yourself spout meaningless bullshit?   Is your's the response of an adult, Snit?

Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net>: May 29 07:30AM +0100 Relating to childrens toys, powered noise cancelling earphones etc, ie small low power items and bodging repairs! : Ocasionally there is a need to replace a LiPo single cell 2 lead protected cell and I only have a 3 lead cell suitably sized to use. As far as I know the third lead is only used for sense monitoring, so just using the 2 (+,-) leads should be fine but anyone done this and knows the answer? I think the battery protection should work the same without the third lead, or should the third lead be tied to (-)? C+

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 28 12:05PM -0700 Why does this idiot troll have any traction in this group whatsoever?   Any idiot that would use a cell-phone or any similar device to check critical measurements in a vehicle deserves exactly what it gets. The sad part, of course, is when it gets what it deserves, it is more than likely to take one-or-more innocents with it. Of course, one is entirely and fully entitled to compete for a Darwin Award, but not to threaten others in the process.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: May 28 10:32PM -0500 > Why does this idiot troll have any traction in this group whatsoever?   "Like"   -- Jeff-1.0 wa6fwi http://www.foxsmercantile.com   --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com

hdekgec@gmail.com: May 28 09:46AM -0700

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