Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 14 updates in 4 topics

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Mar 30 03:05PM +0100

The fancy plastic sheets for distributing the lamp light, microprism
sheet etc.
A thunder-sheet sound-effect "machine" for am-dram is one.
A fancy lamp-shade?
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 30 01:01AM -0500

FROM:
https://www.surplussales.com/Microphones-Audio/MicroAudio-7.html
 
Now, ***THIS*** is what I call a SOUND SYSTEM !!!
 
(For STEREO, you'll need 2 of these)
 
Total audio output power (for two amps), 20KW.
Tube filaments operate 6 volts @ 60 amps (each tube)
Weight 5000 lbs
230 or 460 vac, 3 phase MAINS power required to operate.
Speakers *NOT* included.
 
No schematic on website (Damnit).
 
ONLY $50,000 plus S+H.
 
The WL-5736 output tubes can be seen here:
http://lampes-et-tubes.info/tt/tt004.php?l=e
 
Or buy one tube on ebay for $1665.00 plus $50 Shipping.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghouse-WL-5736-tube-/322227283515#ht_220wt_938
---
 
[Web Quote]
 
(EQP) WEST-FG-10
Westinghouse type FG-10 Audio Amplifier - 10 kw. Accepts 600 ohm input
signal, 10 mW maximum and produces 10 kw output at impedances from 1.6
ohms up. Frequency response 30 - 10,000 Hz @ ±1.5%. Total harmonic
distortion less than 5%. Reduced output available below 30 Hz and up to
20,000 Hz. Multiple tapped output transformer allows a wide range of
output impedances.
 
Uses a McIntosh K-1071, 200 watt amplifier as a driver, feeding four (4)
WL-5736 triodes with plate dissipation of 2500 watts per tube and
maximum DC input power of 4200 watts.
 
Useful for driving vibration testing equipment or other industrial
applications. Single channel, not stereo.
 
Another feature of this unit is that it only requires 23 square feet of
floor space in a 82-1/2" tall cabinet. Condition of unit is excellent.
Probably never used, but 60 years of dust. Manufactured in 1953. Weighs
2,500 lbs. Manual is included. Sold as-is. No warranty expressed or
implied.
 
* Input power: 230 or 460 vac, 3 phase @ 50 Hz or 60 Hz
* Dimensions: 34" x 44" x 82-1/2"H
 
$25,000 each
"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Mar 30 09:13AM +0100

wrote in message news:ud7pdc1irot26c3fsr1snjrdoispide4or@4ax.com...
 
FROM:
https://www.surplussales.com/Microphones-Audio/MicroAudio-7.html
 
Now, ***THIS*** is what I call a SOUND SYSTEM !!!
 
(For STEREO, you'll need 2 of these)
 
Total audio output power (for two amps), 20KW.
Tube filaments operate 6 volts @ 60 amps (each tube)
Weight 5000 lbs
230 or 460 vac, 3 phase MAINS power required to operate.
Speakers *NOT* included.
 
No schematic on website (Damnit).
 
ONLY $50,000 plus S+H.
 
The WL-5736 output tubes can be seen here:
http://lampes-et-tubes.info/tt/tt004.php?l=e
 
Or buy one tube on ebay for $1665.00 plus $50 Shipping.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Westinghouse-WL-5736-tube-/322227283515#ht_220wt_938
---
 
[Web Quote]
 
(EQP) WEST-FG-10
Westinghouse type FG-10 Audio Amplifier - 10 kw. Accepts 600 ohm input
signal, 10 mW maximum and produces 10 kw output at impedances from 1.6
ohms up. Frequency response 30 - 10,000 Hz @ ą1.5%. Total harmonic
distortion less than 5%. Reduced output available below 30 Hz and up to
20,000 Hz. Multiple tapped output transformer allows a wide range of
output impedances.
 
Uses a McIntosh K-1071, 200 watt amplifier as a driver, feeding four (4)
WL-5736 triodes with plate dissipation of 2500 watts per tube and
maximum DC input power of 4200 watts.
 
Useful for driving vibration testing equipment or other industrial
applications. Single channel, not stereo.
 
Another feature of this unit is that it only requires 23 square feet of
floor space in a 82-1/2" tall cabinet. Condition of unit is excellent.
Probably never used, but 60 years of dust. Manufactured in 1953. Weighs
2,500 lbs. Manual is included. Sold as-is. No warranty expressed or
implied.
 
* Input power: 230 or 460 vac, 3 phase @ 50 Hz or 60 Hz
* Dimensions: 34" x 44" x 82-1/2"H
 
$25,000 each
 
 
 
*********************************************************
 
 
 
 
Pah, you can get 40kW of amp in a 1U box with close to zero distortion for
around $1500.
Now THAT is an amplifier.
 
https://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=PKN3PHASE40K
 
 
 
Gareth.
ohger1s@gmail.com: Mar 30 04:31AM -0700

On Thursday, March 30, 2017 at 4:13:56 AM UTC-4, Gareth Magennis wrote:
 
> Gareth.
 
 
 
I think you're off by a decimal place unless the exchange rate has changed!
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 29 11:42AM -0500

On 3/29/2017 11:33 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> If you must use tubes, I could probably design a cascode
> Nuvistor RF probe for the occasion.
 
Duly noted so your ego remains intact this time. ;-)
 
<http://bama.edebris.com/download/ameco/pcl-p/AMECO%20PCL.pdf>
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
 
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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Mar 29 09:44AM -0700

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 09:23:52 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"
 
>"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled
>to your informed opinion. Nobody is entitled to be ignorant."
>Harlan Ellison
 
I beg to differ. I one did some work in a sausage factory (adjacent
to feed lot) which caused me to loose my taste for sausage. Believe
me, you do not want to know how sausage is made. If the public was
properly informed, the entire sausage industry would collapse. Better
ignorant than informed.
 
It's like that in many areas, where carnal knowledge of the internal
workings and operations can be seriously repulsive. If you knew the
details of the private lives of historical figures, public
personalities, politicians, and actors, you would probably be
disappointed. Just meeting some of these in person can produce a
similar reaction. Better to believe the myth than to be disappointed
by the truth.
 
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Mar 29 10:01AM -0700

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 11:42:41 -0500, Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
wrote:
 
>> If you must use tubes, I could probably design a cascode
>> Nuvistor RF probe for the occasion.
 
>Duly noted so your ego remains intact this time. ;-)
 
Thanks. It's rather difficult to be diplomatic and insulting
simultaneously. I'm sure you're now planning how to retaliate.
 
><http://bama.edebris.com/download/ameco/pcl-p/AMECO%20PCL.pdf>
 
Nope. That's an RF amplifier. I went looking for an RF probe
schematic based on a Nuvistor, but couldn't find anything. There are
some TEK oscilloscope front end circuits that use a Nuvistor, that
could probably be converted into something useful. Basically, one
needs a broadband impedance converter. Cascode (common emitter
driving a common base) design seems right. It would take two 6CW4
Nuvistors, a length of 3/4" copper pipe, and some high voltage. If
that's to messy, a single tube in a cathode follower derangement
should work. It might get warm enough to be uncomfortable, but that's
the price we pay for working with tubes.
 
Nuvistors are cheap on eBay but sockets are pricy:
<http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=nuvistor>
Hmmm... LTSpice models available for various Nuvistors.
Never mind. I don't need yet another project.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Mar 29 01:17PM -0400

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 29 10:16AM -0700

On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 12:44:24 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> me, you do not want to know how sausage is made. If the public was
> properly informed, the entire sausage industry would collapse. Better
> ignorant than informed.
 
Oh, I dunno. I am of the belief that one should not engage in an activity unless one is willing to engage in the necessary and enabling first steps at some level more than theoretical.
 
Eat chicken much? Learn to kill, gut and pluck.
Eat meat much?
Eat fish much?
 
True, this society has gotten so far from the 'squeal' end of the process that those enjoying the bacon rarely have a clue. But it is that 'squeal' where reality starts in, and the moment that end-user loses the connection entirely, we are done as a society.
 
There is a working organic farm not far from our summer house run by a very hard-working couple who are also friends of ours. We have learned a great deal from them. But, until one is willing to put a bullet in the steer's brain, hoist it (no longer 'him') up on a pulley, gut, clean, skin, and butcher it, it is too abstract to be real. We have canine teeth for a reason, and we produce protein busting enzymes in our saliva for a reason. We need the intellectual as well as intestinal fortitude to live with the connections.
 
Having made sausage - I have no problems with the process.
 
The difference between ham and eggs?
 
The chicken is involved.
The pig is committed.
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 02:22PM -0500

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:01:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
 
><http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=nuvistor>
>Hmmm... LTSpice models available for various Nuvistors.
>Never mind. I don't need yet another project.

For the record, I was ready to buy that kit from qrpkits.com, but found
out they do not recommend it for over 50V. I emailed the vendor and
asked if it could be upgraded for tube circuits. He told me that he can
not recommend that, because it could be a shock hazzard. Although I do
feel competent to make such a modification, I knew that would mean
spending more money, and wasting more time to build a usable probe.
Instead, I found a semi over priced old Eico RF probe (blue one) on
Ebay, and just paid the price. As soon as it comes, I'll be all set....
 
I never heard of using a nuvistor in a probe, but I am sure it's
possible. Seems kind of senseless though, when a simple diode along with
a few other parts will do the trick. Just because I prefer to work on
tubes, dont mean I wont use semi-conductors. For audio, tubes have a
superior sound. For my abilities and test gear, I'll take tubes any day
to work on. But I also do not mind working on older devices that contain
transistors, such as my XAM amp. It's the devices that contain IC chips
I detest. I'm not saying they are bad, and I am well aware my computer
and a lot of other stuff contain them. But I strongly dislike working on
that stuff. That was the main reason I stopped electronics in the late
70's as a hobby, and even more so as a repair business. It's not just
the fact that the stuff is very hard to work on, but also that parts are
far too hard to get.
 
As far as all thge political discussions that evolved in this thread, I
have no further comments. I hate politics. However, I know it all began
when I made a comment about todays youth being fat and lazy. That is my
opinion, and I see it all the time. Some of my very good friends have
kids who are now in their 20's and even their parents (my friends) say
the same thing. I see it all the time. That dont mean I am right, it's
just my opinion, buty I have a right to my opinion, and to express it
based on my "freedom of speech" as well as just saying what I feel. Then
again, there are a few exceptions. I know one young man who is a very
hard worker and he has a good head on his shoulders. But he is one in
100 or 1000. Most of today's youth have no goals. They spend their time
staring at their cellphones, work as little as possible (or not at all),
and eat as much as they can cram down their throats, and it shows!
 
However, none of that has anytrhing to do with the topic of this
newsgroup, aside from the fact that I would likely win a bet if I said
that no one on this group is under the age of 45. Today's youth dont
care to do electronics as a hobby. Nor do they care to do much of
anything that involves using their brains or muscles. But I am not gonna
join them. They can sit in their fancy restaurants and bars spending
their parents money, and talking on a cellphone to the person sitting
next to them. None of which makes any sense to me...... I'm just glad I
was born in the 50's when life still had meaning. My only complaint
about being born at that time is all the aches and pains I feel now!
Getting old sucks! But I doubt I need to explain that to any of you old
farts :)
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 29 12:54PM -0700


> As far as all thge political discussions that evolved in this thread, I
> have no further comments. I hate politics. However, I know it all began
> when I made a comment about todays youth being fat and lazy. <
 
If so, their parents are responsible, and we are either the parents or responsible for them.
 
Making us 100% responsible for the state of our youth - good, bad or indifferent.
 
Writing for myself, I am quietly proud of our kids, their kids and what eacn and ever one of them is doing with their lives - from second grade to senior partner. Not a fat one or a lazy one in the bunch.
 
Pretty much true of nephews, nieces and more.
 
A little bit of education does appear to help, however.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 10:09PM -0500

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 12:54:10 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>
wrote:
 
 
>A little bit of education does appear to help, however.
 
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA
 
 
I fully agree about the parents. But these days, you cant lift a finger
or you'll be charged with abuse. An old spanking stick still has it's
place. I know I got that stick several times and it was far from abuse.
It just made me think....
 
But it does go beyond the parents. There is a lot to blame on the
schools. From what I hear, most of them no longer have shop classes or
anything like that. Heck, when I was in HS, I took every shop class they
had. Wood shop, metal shop, motor shop, electronics shop, and more....
but I guess that stuff is "too dangerous" for kids these days. So,
instead of cutting off a finger on a table saw, the kids lose their
limbs from diabetes due to their obesity.... Or lose their lives from
drug abuse because they are so damn bored....
 
I never had any children, so I cant brag about them.... Glad yours
turned out good! But I will brag that my four legged kids are really
good! (And I do have a REAL kid, a pet goat) :)
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 30 04:27AM -0700

All whiny Blather Snipped.
 
It comes down to the parents - 100% and without reservation. Schools, from pre-school to graduate school are mines, knowledge is extracted from them with effort, time and concentration. They do not "impart" knowledge at any level. And, the ore exists even in the poorest schools. It really does. Been there.
 
If parents prepare their children in that extraction process, they will learn. If the parents do not, they will not.
 
Shop Classes: That is a matter of community values. Shop classes require a dedicated staff, expensive tools, space and maintenance. If the community values the product of these classes, they will happen. It's called Taxes.
 
We pay very nearly $10,000/year in dedicated school taxes. It will be 2042 before we pay back the system for the education extracted by our two, even at that rate. And right now, we are investing in the next generation of kids and insuring that they have the same basic opportunities as ours did. A very simple concept.
 
Get over yourself. This is not an external problem. It is internal to all of us - what are our values? Are they essentially selfish? I have mine! Or are they focused on providing and supporting a community that will, in turn support us and our values into the future? I am 100% responsible for my condition in life, and good or bad, that is the way it is. There is no one to blame, nothing has been taken from me that I was unwilling to give, nor has anything been given to me other than opportunity. That is the difference between a democracy - and anything else. Ours, by the way, is threatened.
 
And, to twist the knife a little - neither of my parents spoke English as their first language. But despite all that, they provided me with infinite opportunity, and infinite support, and were excellent examples on how to work it out.
 
I have written this before, but sometimes the first application of the clue-stick does not take:
 
Keep in mind that the Average American:
 
Does not have a college education, including an Associate Degree (60%).
Does not have a passport (64%).
Speaks one language – badly (74%).
Has never traveled voluntarily more than 200 miles from his/her birthplace (57%).
Has never visited a foreign country, not even Mexico or Canada (71%).
Cannot name the Speaker of the House, even today (82%)
Cannot name the three branches of government (64%)
Cannot read at a college level (83%)
Cannot read for content (54%). This person cannot follow written-only directions.
60% of American Households do not buy any book in a year.
Does not believe in Evolution (42% creationism, 32% evolution, 26% no opinion).
Only 71.2% of eligible voters are registered.
Only 57.9% of registered voters voted in 2012.
Meaning that the average American eligible to vote does not vote (only 41.5% net). Not much changed in early statistics for 2016, although the change was to greater participation (44%). The Average American still does not vote.
 
This has not one damned thing to do with party, democrat, republican, libertarian, communist, green, whatever. It has to do with massive, systemic and deliberate neglect, and industrial-grade stupidity mixed equally with mil.Spec. ignorance.
 
Quit your bitching - and work it out. It really is you, so only you can change it.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 10:22PM -0500

On Thu, 02 Mar 2017 09:58:26 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
>Kill-a-watt on the input showed 200w being used, and 54w output. 25%
>more or less. I thought that a SMPS would be way more efficient than that.
 
>Bob
 
I had an older Pentium computer that came with a 100W PS. It worked fien
until I added more RAM and an extra Harddrive. Then it would randomly
crash or just do a reboot for no reason. Shortly afterwards, the PS just
died. I bought a 350W PS and never had another problem with that
computer. It's called RESERVE POWER. Under normal use, it only uses 54W,
but add a few drives and run it real hard, and the power use demand
rises.
 
This is about the same as an audio amplifier. You may have the output
tubes or transistors that will pump out 100W, but if your power supply
cant furnish the reserve power on high demand heavy bass loads, you will
hear a lot of distortion, or lose power, or worse....
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 11 updates in 2 topics

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Mar 28 07:55PM -0400

analogdial <analogdial@mail.com>: Mar 29 12:54AM

Michael Black wrote:
 
 
 
> But it's no longer so easy to find tube sockets and shields. It looked
> like a good idea back then.
 
Lots on ebay. Brand new from China, if that's not a problem for you. I
don't quite understand Chinese manufacturing priorities. You can find
new compactron and 10 pin decal sockets, too.
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Mar 28 11:19PM -0400

oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 04:36AM -0500

On Tue, 28 Mar 2017 04:15:37 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>
wrote:
 
>XAM equipment of that vintage often (very nearly always) used germanium transistors - so be very careful of the part numbers.
 
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA
 
Thats good to know. Thanks!
 
I was just reading recently that the earlier transistors were made with
germanium, but it is rare and thus costly so they changed to silicone.
MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Mar 29 10:57AM +0100

In article <46vmdcdgb2qu79l64s5cf9uobdrdbuj34g@4ax.com>,
oldschool@tubes.com says...
 
> I was just reading recently that the earlier transistors were made with
> germanium, but it is rare and thus costly so they changed to silicone.
 
Definitely silicon, not silicone. In chemistry, one letter makes a big
difference!
 
Mike.
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 29 05:03AM -0500

>brass sheet, and one could make end caps with those.
 
>For things that don't need shielding, old markers to work.
 
> Michael
 
One of the kits linked in this thread, uses cpvc plumbing pipe, but they
cover it with adhesive copper foil. Thats a good idea. They have some
special caps on the ends, but I dont see why the pvc caps made for that
pipe would not work. Glue on the front one, leave the read one loose. or
put a little tape on it.
 
Copper plumbing pipe would make a good shell too, and the rear cap could
be a copper pipe cap with a rubber grommet drilled in (for the wire),
but I have not figured out what to use on the front that is
non-conductive, and still strong enough for the probe tip.
 
I was looking at some of the old Eico probes. I used to have some of
them (I wish I would have kept that stuff). There were 5 of them, all
color coded. Yellow was direct, blue was RF, Green was demodulator, red
was low capacity, and there was one more but I have not found pictures
of that one, or what it did.
 
Anyhow, I have a direct one, just coax with a regular probe on the
center lead and an aligator clip on the shield. But I want to make a RF
probe. I dont really see a need for a demodulator, or low capacity, but
I may in the future, now that I picked up a scope.
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 29 10:04AM -0500

> It's the truth, and I have a thing called "Freedom of speech"!
 
Funny how the "freedom of speech" usually only applies to the
person claiming it.
 
I have a similar freedom, calling out people for being ignorant
assholes when they wish to publicly display it.
 
On truth and democracy:
There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there
always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been
a constant thread winding its way through our political and
cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy
means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
 
ISAAC ASIMOV, "A Cult of Ignorance", Newsweek, Jan. 21, 1980
 
 
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
 
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"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 29 09:23AM -0700

RANT WARNING!
 
On Wednesday, March 29, 2017 at 11:04:22 AM UTC-4, Foxs Mercantile wrote:
 
> cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy
> means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
 
> ISAAC ASIMOV, "A Cult of Ignorance", Newsweek, Jan. 21, 1980
 
As we are quoting fairly a learned writer, and one who also wrote a great deal of science fiction, here is an equally appropriate quote from another learned writer, who also wrote science fiction:
 
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. Nobody is entitled to be ignorant."
 
Harlan Ellison
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
 
Democracy arises only from exceeding wealth readily shared at every level of society. And even a brief look at other so-called democracies in this world, starting with India, and that obvious reality becomes clear. The United States is 21 (of 76) on a world scale, between Japan and Italy - both very recent converts to the title of 'democracy' on a world scale. A pretty sad condition for a so-called Beacon.
 
And to the extent that we fail to protect our least able citizens and residents, that is the extent to which we fail as a democracy. To the extent that we fail to educate our young to live, play, work and grow on the *WORLD STAGE* is the extent to which we fail as a nation to grow and participate in that world stage. We cannot go it alone - hell, we do not even make one single simple LDC screen in this country. We are a net-importer of agricultural goods (due, in large part, to the consumption of illicit pharmaceuticals), we cannot meet any of our most basic requirements from steel to energy to minerals to necessary pharmaceuticals to much of anything else solely from domestic sources - NOR CAN THE REST OF THE WORLD FOR THEMSELVES, EITHER.
 
So, we are necessary participants whether we recognize it or not. Best to learn about all this and understand it, rather than be caught blindsided by it, perhaps? We need to be smarter, harder working, faster, better educated, more thoughtful, less ignorant, cleaner and brighter than the rest of the world at every level of our society or we *will* fail. We need to make use of our incredible wealth, and not concentrate it into the hands of a very, very few - or we will lose all of it. We, the United States, are 5% of the world's population. Yet we consume just about 25% of the world's total resources.
 
Ignorance will not protect that primacy. Nor will denying the consequences and necessities of that primacy. For us to live as we live, individuals in China, North Korea, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan, Congo, Sudan, Yemen, Somalia, Haiti et.al. *MUST* live as they do.
 
Stop whining about what you don't begin to understand, stop living by received wisdom, and start to understand reality.
 
As we are quoting, here is another one:
 
"But you were always a good man of business, Jacob,' faltered Scrooge, who now began to apply this to himself.
 
Business!' cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. "Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The deals of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!"
 
Charles Dickens
 
America is no greater than the least of us.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Mar 29 09:33AM -0700

On Wed, 29 Mar 2017 10:04:02 -0500, Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
wrote:
 
>> It's the truth, and I have a thing called "Freedom of speech"!
 
>Funny how the "freedom of speech" usually only applies to the
>person claiming it.
 
He who yells the biggest, loudest, and longest, wins. These days,
freedom of speech mostly means WikiLeaks and commercial advertising.
 
>I have a similar freedom, calling out people for being ignorant
>assholes when they wish to publicly display it.
 
Let he who knows all cast the first complaint.
 
>cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy
>means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
 
>ISAAC ASIMOV, "A Cult of Ignorance", Newsweek, Jan. 21, 1980
 
Yep. Just ask any voter for the names of their recently elected
officials. Most can name the president, and that's all. At best,
they remember the names, but not their associated office. In a way,
that's probably a good thing because if the GUM (great unwashed
masses) knew what was happening in government, we would have
continuous rioting and revolution. Political ignorance might be a
good thing.
 
Ignorance is worse in technical fields, and we're all to blame. As
technical areas such as computahs and electronics grow, the number of
buzzwords, acronyms, trade names, and calculations necessary to be
considered knowledgeable also grows. Jump into this maze of
technobabble, after an extended absence, and even the most intelligent
person will appear to be quite ignorant. I've had that experience
dealing with radiation, modern medicine, and cycling. I'm currently
providing a splendid example by making a fool of myself in another
newsgroup demonstrating my ignorance of lighting and optics. It's all
part of my "Learn by Destroying" paradigm, which in this case,
involves destroying my reputation. I'll survive. Would you call me
an ignorant asshole for failing to instantly assimilate the
accumulated wisdom of some 500 years of optics?
 
Part of the problem is that Mr Oldschool is not responding to
suggestions and answers to his questions. He usually drifts off on
another topic, as if all the effort people have put into answering his
questions was of no importance. Failure to appreciate is a capital
crime, and I certainly feel unappreciated as all my comments have not
even been acknowledged. So, I'll offer one last suggestion before I
give up.
 
The "classic RF probe" is a marginal and crude device that was long
ago replaced by far better amplified probes. The "classic RF probe"
quits at about 100MHz, has a rather lumpy frequency response, and will
load down high impedance circuits. If you have volts of signal to
work with in a tube device, it will work as expected. If you're
working on a modern low voltage device, you'll have problems. What's
better is a FET input RF probe, something like these, which can be
built:
<http://cjh.polyplex.org/electronics/RFCascodeProbe/>
<http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-1GHz-Active-Probe-for-Under-20/?ALLSTEPS>
If you must use tubes, I could probably design a cascode Nuvistor RF
probe for the occasion.
 
 
 
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Mar 28 02:46PM -0400

> I have been through many scanners all over the US, and the world. No issues, ever. Traveling with everything from high end cameras to sensitive medical equipment.
 
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
 
The one you have to worry about is the one in the post office.
 
I've had packages containing prototypes likely seized before. Because
they looked scary.
 
Customer gets sent an empty box, "your package was damaged in shipping",
deny everything.
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 28 01:49PM -0700

OK - a few things.
 
a) Airport and shipping security are facts of life whether one is from the back of beyond or downtown NYC. Every manufacturer on the planet understands this.
 
b) Older devices would simply be immune to stray fields of the sorts found in airports, flying above 5,000 feet (cosmic rays), walking down the street (how many cell/bluetooth devices/routers/GPS devices and more do you think you are passing in, around and through on a moment-to-moment basis? Newer devices would be designed to be immune. After all, we are not discussing EMPs, just stray fields.
 
c) Magnetic fields propagate by the inverse-square. Twice the distance = the √ of the first distance. And so forth.
 
d) As previously noted, the magnetic field is bridged, and alternating.
 
e) As previously noted, the field is released when the part is placed - so there is no, repeat, no induced field beyond the shield (part) itself.
 
And as all sorts of these devices are already deployed all over the planet in many configurations without apparent untoward effects as of yet, I suggest that the need for paranoia is minimal.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 3 topics

oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 27 02:46PM -0500

Do any companies sell those blank RF probe tubes with metal tips? I
recall back in the 60s you could buy the entire probes with internal
parts as kits. They came with the same basic "shell" but had different
internal parts for different uses. The parts inside of them are basic.
Normally one diode and a resistor(s) or cap, or both.
 
I've found the schematics for several different probes, and I know that
some people build them in a pill bottle, or ink pen shell, or whatever,
but I'd like to find some of the REAL shells if they are sold.
 
Anyone know?
 
Thanks
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 27 02:56PM -0500

> I've found the schematics for several different probes, and I know that
> some people build them in a pill bottle, or ink pen shell, or whatever,
> but I'd like to find some of the REAL shells if they are sold.
 
Heathkit and Eico come to mind, but they haven't been sold in over
40 years.
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
 
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oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 27 03:07PM -0500

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:56:06 -0500, Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
wrote:
 
>> but I'd like to find some of the REAL shells if they are sold.
 
>Heathkit and Eico come to mind, but they haven't been sold in over
>40 years.
 
Yep, those are the schematics I have, and maybe some popular electronics
magazine articles as well.
 
I know this new generation of fat lazy kids are too lazy to build kits,
but probes are still used even on modern electronic test gear. I'm sure
there are some technicians, experimenters and some older guys who still
want to build a special needs probe, and need a plastic shell with tip
to do so.... Someone must sell them....
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 27 03:57PM -0500

> there are some technicians, experimenters and some older guys who still
> want to build a special needs probe, and need a plastic shell with tip
> to do so.... Someone must sell them....
 
Lets put a stop to this bullshit right now.
 
There is no shortage of "Kids" (either in the classic teen bracket, or
by you're implied definition of anyone else under 60) building kits.
The kit companies of yesteryear and their kits aren't in business any
more. The big thing now is Arduino, Instructables and the Makers.
 
As much as you hate "Anything Chinese" the bottom line is you can't
compete against them either. Heathkit is back and trying to sell kits
again. Tell me why I should pay $149 for an transistorized AM radio.
 
And after all your bellyaching about "I want tubes" I see you bought a
used MAX Model 200. That has neither any vacuum tubes in it, nor was
it manufactured in the US.
 
Oh, and all the prices you remember? Multiply them by roughly ten for
the value in today's currency. That $14 Heathkit something? $149 now.
 
So quite playing Rip Van Winkle and bitching that it's not the '60s
any more.
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
 
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oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 27 05:34PM -0500

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 15:57:27 -0500, Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
wrote:
 
>Lets put a stop to this bullshit right now.
 
I asked a simple question, if you cant answer it, maybe someone else
can. I only asked because I dont know much about what companies sell
what. It's been years since I dealt with electronics companies other
than radio shack.
 
And yea, I like tube stuff, but I bought a XAM solid state amp. So what,
that's my business, not yours.... It's a lot better than those crappy
computer speakers. Regardless, I buy what I damn well please, and you
dont have any decisions in what I buy or do. Nor do I really need your
opinions. I asked if anyone knows if any stores sells blank probe tips,
not for opinions of how to live my life, which is none of your damn
business anyhow.
 
I could spend a whole day googling for these probes, so I asked for some
advice. If you cant answer a simple question, dont answer......
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 27 06:00PM -0500


>> Lets put a stop to this bullshit right now.
> I asked a simple question, if you cant answer it, maybe someone else
> can.
 
No, you didn't ask a simple question. You decided to bitch about fat
lazy kids.
 
Previously, you asked a simple question and you got an answer. Then
you went off on one of your pointless rants bitching how things aren't
like they used to be.
 
And for the record, I don't give a shit what you do.
But you come here asking for help, then you sit and bitch and argue
about the help you get.
 
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
 
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Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 27 07:10PM -0500

Here's two RF probe kits for about $15 each.
<http://www.qrpkits.com/rfprobe.html>
And
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/142283510722>
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
 
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"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 27 05:21PM -0700

You are making it far too easy. A basic search found these and two other links to them.
 
Give a man a fish....
 
Agreed on the BS factor however. When it is convenient to whine about China, let's whine. When it is convenient to use their products, go for it. XAM products were part of the initial foray in the race for the bottom. That $0.99 pair of underwear as it were. To mix a metaphor, the rest of the camel inevitably followed. And here we are.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 27 10:59PM -0500

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 18:00:38 -0500, Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
wrote:
 
>> can.
 
>No, you didn't ask a simple question. You decided to bitch about fat
>lazy kids.
 
It's the truth, and I have a thing called "Freedom of speech"!
 
>Previously, you asked a simple question and you got an answer. Then
>you went off on one of your pointless rants bitching how things aren't
>like they used to be.
 
Things are what they are, that dont mean I have to like them....
 
>And for the record, I don't give a shit what you do.
>But you come here asking for help, then you sit and bitch and argue
>about the help you get.
 
Here is some shopping advice for you. Quit buying your ties from China,
they are too tight and they are cutting off the blood to your brain!!!
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 27 11:30PM -0500

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 17:21:00 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>
wrote:
 
>d here we are.
 
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA
 
This XAM was made in Taiwan, which I know is darn near the same as
China, but it was made around 1970, and made quite well. The entire case
is metal, and well made. For my stereo, I like tube amps and want more
power, but for a computer sound system, I just want to hear what is
coming out of the computer. My laptop has practically no volume at all
from it's internal speakers. Now I can actually hear it, and I am
pleased with the sound. I spent almost twice what I paid for the XAM
about a year ago, for some of the so called "computer speakers". They
had poor sound, and they quit working after 7 months. My prior ones
lasted maybe 2 years, and they had crappy sound too.
 
Sure, I had the speakers that I am using on this XAM, but I know this
system will outlast any of those cheap computer speakers and it's still
small enough to haul around easily. When I saw it, I knew that is was
what I was looking for. And it suits me well for the intended use. Not
to mention it was cheap.
 
Even without a schematic, I am sure I can fix it. Particularly since it
has real power transistors for the output stage, not those damn ICs that
usually can not be replaced, because they are not available.
 
But I'd still like to have a schematic if I can locate one.
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 28 12:56AM -0500

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:10:24 -0500, Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>
wrote:
 
><http://www.qrpkits.com/rfprobe.html>
>And
><http://www.ebay.com/itm/142283510722>
 
Now we're getting somewhere......
I particularly like the one from qrpkits.
And at a good price.
I downloaded the PDF for it, and it's very complete.
 
I also browsed their other kits. Lots of interesting stuff....
 
Thank You!
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 28 04:15AM -0700

XAM equipment of that vintage often (very nearly always) used germanium transistors - so be very careful of the part numbers.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Baron <baron@linuxmaniac.net>: Mar 28 03:31PM +0100

> guys who still want to build a special needs probe, and need a
> plastic shell with tip
> to do so.... Someone must sell them....
 
I used to make mine from copper and gas water pipe with Tuffnel plugs
at the ends and copper nails for the tip. Nowadays I would heat
shrink a cover on them.
 
--
Best Regards:
Baron.
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Mar 28 10:25AM -0500

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/132140338092>
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
 
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analogdial <analogdial@mail.com>: Mar 28 04:13PM


>>No, you didn't ask a simple question. You decided to bitch about fat
>>lazy kids.
 
> It's the truth, and I have a thing called "Freedom of speech"!
 
It's always been true! Damn kids today!!
 
"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority;
they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise."
 
attributed to -- Socretes!!
 
I rembember being one of those damn kids back in the late 60s and early
70s. Promised myself to try not to grow up into a geezer.
 
I suppose I'll be retiring one of these days. Maybe I'll make an
attempt at Ardino programming or apps or something. Or maybe I'll just
sit on the porch and yell "Get off my lawn!!".
 
Sort of a coin toss.
analogdial <analogdial@mail.com>: Mar 28 04:24PM

> but I'd like to find some of the REAL shells if they are sold.
 
> Anyone know?
 
> Thanks
 
The probe in the old ARRL handbooks was in the sort of shield and socket
used with 7 pin tubes. The pin connectors were removed from the socket
and a long screw was installed through the center tube of the socket.
All the RF probe parts were installed on a terminal strip which was held
to the socket by the screw which also served as the tip of the probe.
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 27 10:24AM -0700

ElectroVoice job-shopped for several house brands, including XAM. You may have luck pursuing that avenue.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Mar 27 01:37PM -0400

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 27 10:49AM -0700

On Monday, March 27, 2017 at 1:29:31 PM UTC-4, Michael Black wrote:
 
 
> "Xam" was a real product name?
 
Sure was. EJ Korvette's
 
An early, much smaller version of WalMart.
 
Vornado was their appliance brand - which survived the demise of Korvette's.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
oldschool@tubes.com: Mar 27 02:40PM -0500

On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 10:49:12 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>
wrote:
 
 
>Vornado was their appliance brand - which survived the demise of Korvette's.
 
>Peter Wieck
>Melrose Park, PA
 
I never heard of EJ Korvette's, but it appears that's the source of
these amps according to what you guys replied. But yes, XAM was a real
product name. (The story about Max the dog, backwards is interesting).
 
The photo of this amp, which I posted the URL in the original message on
here, shows what I have. It's a nice amp for what it is.... Nothing
fancy, just a basic amp with decent sound.
 
I am still wondering if Olson electronics may have sold them later on, I
know most Olson stuff was closeouts from other companies. I loved Olson,
it was a fun place with great deals.
 
Either way, it looks like I will never find a schematic for this amp,
but I thought I'd ask anyhow.
analogdial <analogdial@mail.com>: Mar 28 03:56PM

> it was a fun place with great deals.
 
> Either way, it looks like I will never find a schematic for this amp,
> but I thought I'd ask anyhow.
 
I don't think Olson ever sold XAM products. But I was leafing through
an early 70s Olson catalog and I saw a Teledyne stereo which looked
almost exactly like our old cheesy XAM stereo. The Teledyne sold for
considerably more than the XAM, however. I seem to recall our XAM was
made in Japan but it could have been Taiwan.
 
Here's a few articles on EJ Korvette:
 
http://pleasantfamilyshopping.blogspot.com/search/label/Korvettes
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 27 12:27PM -0700

On Sunday, March 26, 2017 at 9:18:50 PM UTC-4, mike wrote:
 
> Transients from turning the electromagnet on and off can create voltage
> in nearby conductors. Sensitive inputs might not like that. Hall Effect
> sensors might not like magnetism either.
 
Good to raise the question - which deserves an answer that addresses it directly.
 
Magnetic fields are largely dissipated when bridged. Which is why horseshoe magnets, as one obvious example are bridged when shipped. A bar between N & S., that is. DO try this at home. Take the typical cartoon-type horseshoe magnet and iron filings (in a bag for the purposes of neatness). With the bar and without the bar.
 
When a magnetic parts-picker is holding its part, it is bridged. The electromotive coil is sitting between the two poles which are gapped at the proper size to pick up the part in question. The part-in-place dissipates extraneous fields, is demagnetized by the shifting field applied to it, and when the system shuts off (dropping the part) also absorbs and dissipates the transient - which ain't much nohow, anyway.
 
Thank goodness for high-school science. We learned things as they apply to real life every single day. And a lot of cool stuff, too. Such as making gunpowder (elementary), gun cotton (nitrocellulose, not so easy) and much more. The teacher ran the course parallel to our history courses with a little bit of physics thrown in. So, we made "Egyptian Ice" in hot weather, a Rhodesian hoist, Prince Rupert's drops, Archimedes' screw (as well as displacement and specific gravity experiments, split rocks without tools, and much much more.
 
Teaching that kind of science is probably a lost art - who would let little Jilly or Johnny around glacial sulphuric acid, much less the 'fixins' for gunpowder these days?
 
But I can tell you exactly how a Lift Pump works, how it is different from a Force Pump, and its lifting limits. And we learned about the differences between the Atkinson cycle and the Otto cycle in 1967.
 
As well as the ten (10) reindeer... How you can tell an American anywhere under any conditions... much longer, but related stories. The former is disclosable to the general public, the latter not - for obvious reasons.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com>: Mar 28 10:52PM +1100

On 25/03/2017 02:30, N_Cook wrote:
> while first solder dab.
> Any devices a definite no-no for high local magnetism? , presumably some
> SMD termination metal is not ferrous for one thing.
 
Some RF ferrites probably wouldn't like it. I remember reading warnings
about that. I doubt you would encounter those often.
Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com>: Mar 28 11:37PM +1100

On 26/03/2017 05:55, N_Cook wrote:
>> SMD termination metal is not ferrous for one thing.
 
> While at it, any problems with fine chip geometries in cameras, fancy
> phones and computers, passing through airport X-ray scanners?
 
http://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an15/an1533.pdf
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