Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 7 topics

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Nov 22 08:06PM -0800

Jasen Betts wrote:
 
>> Some usb leads for chargers only run the +5 and Gnd - so they can't be
>> used on PC's etc
 
>They can (but probably should not) be used for charing
 
You mean 'sharing'? or 'charging'?
 
>from PCs, but
>cannot be used for data
 
If you meant to say 'sharing' and not 'charging' then yes, you can use this for a hard-wire data link. There are adapters for this too, I believe.
oldschool@tubes.com: Nov 22 07:14PM -0600

>>> Melrose Park, PA
 
>> So--- the complete legend in your own mind then ??
>Me too!!!!!
 
Sounds to me like Peter needs to sign himself into an alcohol detox
treatment hospital.
 
This is the kind of blabber one normally hears from someone sitting on a
barstool.
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Nov 22 10:42PM -0500

> treatment hospital.
 
> This is the kind of blabber one normally hears from someone sitting on a
> barstool.
 
Obviously you know this because of all the time you have spent sitting on a
barstool?
 
--
 
Rick C
 
Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Nov 22 09:32AM -0800

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 05:40:42 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
 
>At this point, I see no evidence (yet anyway) of firebase services on my
>Android 4.3 phone. Do you?
 
I dunno and don't have the time to check. Since it's probably buried
the application code, I doubt if I'll find anything.
 
However, all this begs another question. Assuming that Wi-Fi is also
turned off in Airplane mode, what the hell is Google doing
TRANSMITTING anything? Unless its buffered, to use the phone for
location tracking would require transmitting the tower ID's when they
are heard. I would think that the airline companies would take a dim
view of this as Google's transmitting anything in an commercial
airliner in flight could interfere with aircraft navigation, which is
the purpose of having the Airplane mode. If some airliner falls out
of the sky due to a navigation error, Google's tracking trickery could
easily be deemed responsible.
 
Incidentally, there's quite a bit more information available that
could be used for location tracking than just the tower ID. The big
one is the propagation delay (ping time) between the handset and the
cell tower, which defines a location radius. Two or three such delays
would obtain your location quite accurately. However, Google could
just as easily transmit the GPS location or the individual satellite
delays in order to obtain a location. It's odd that they would
transmit only the tower ID's, as there so much more available.
 
I should probably fire up the spectrum analyzer, turn off the wi-fi,
and see if my Samsung S6 is belching anything in Airplane mode.
However, tomorrow is the Day of the Turkeys and I have other plans.
 
Happy Day of the Turkeys.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
harry newton <harry@is.invalid>: Nov 22 08:00PM

He who is Jeff Liebermann said on Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:32:54 -0800:
 
> I dunno and don't have the time to check. Since it's probably buried
> the application code, I doubt if I'll find anything.
 
That's understandable.
It was reported only yesterday, so, the pundits need to dig deeper for us.
 
> TRANSMITTING anything? Unless its buffered, to use the phone for
> location tracking would require transmitting the tower ID's when they
> are heard.
 
The code, as I understand it, only activates when you're connected to the
Internet (via either cellular data or WiFi). Nothing else is required.
* no sim card
* factory defaults (i.e., no apps)
* location services turned off
<https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/>
 
"Devices with a cellular data or WiFi connection appear to send the data to
Google each time they come within range of a new cell tower."
 
Slate.com also said the information is sent the moment two things happen:
1. You're on the Internet (using WiFi or cellular data)
2. And you're "in range" of a cellular tower
<http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2017/11/how_to_stop_phone_from_tracking_location_android_latest_to_prove_you_should.html>
 
> the purpose of having the Airplane mode. If some airliner falls out
> of the sky due to a navigation error, Google's tracking trickery could
> easily be deemed responsible.
 
I think the transmission only occurs if two things are simultaneous:
1. You're in range of a cell tower, and,
2. You're already on the Internet
 
If the SIM card is out of the phone, then the only way you'll be on the
Internet is with WiFi (or maybe also reverse tethering, I suppose).
 
> could be used for location tracking than just the tower ID. The big
> one is the propagation delay (ping time) between the handset and the
> cell tower, which defines a location radius.
 
This is very interesting, as you always know the details that are juicy.
 
Where we both live, towers aren't necessarily close, but if, say, for
example, I'm staking out those pot farmers in Boulder Creek who were
arrested for shooting at suspected pot thieves during that fire a couple of
weeks ago, then I don't want ANY information about my proximity to ANY cell
tower to be transmitted.
 
Here's what Google was quoted as having said in the QZ.com article:
"In January of this year, we began ... using Cell ID codes as an additional
signal to further improve the speed and performance of message delivery"
 
> Two or three such delays
> would obtain your location quite accurately.
 
This is good information to know.
Well, actually, it's bad information to know.
But you know what I mean.
 
> just as easily transmit the GPS location or the individual satellite
> delays in order to obtain a location. It's odd that they would
> transmit only the tower ID's, as there so much more available.
 
They *are* getting *more* than the unique cell tower id.
1. MCC
2. MNC
3. CID
 
Google provided this quote to Gizmodo:
"To ensure messages and notifications are received quickly, modern
Android phones use a network sync system that requires the use of Mobile
Country Codes (MCC) and Mobile Network Codes (MNC). In January of this
year, we began ... using Cell ID codes as an additional signal to further
improve the speed and performance of message delivery. ... MCC and MNC
provide necessary network information for message and notification delivery
and are distinctly separate from Location Services..."
<https://gizmodo.com/your-android-phone-has-been-sending-location-data-to-go-1820639889>
 
> I should probably fire up the spectrum analyzer, turn off the wi-fi,
> and see if my Samsung S6 is belching anything in Airplane mode.
 
I think airplane mode might still be working - except on some iOS devices
with the older OS's (which some of mine are on).
Char Jackson <none@none.invalid>: Nov 22 02:08PM -0600

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:32:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
 
>However, all this begs another question. Assuming that Wi-Fi is also
>turned off in Airplane mode, what the hell is Google doing
>TRANSMITTING anything? Unless its buffered,
 
That seems likely, along with timestamps on everything to facilitate
correlation.
 
>the purpose of having the Airplane mode. If some airliner falls out
>of the sky due to a navigation error, Google's tracking trickery could
>easily be deemed responsible.
 
Ever since most airlines have started allowing personal wireless devices
to remain on throughout commercial flights*, it's probably no longer a
big deal.
 
*Supposedly, not during take-off and landing, while the aircraft is
below 10,000 feet, but I travel very frequently for work and I can't
remember the last time I noticed anyone complying with that request.
 
As far as I know, there's no evidence to suggest that personal wireless
devices actually interfere with aircraft navigation or operation. The
whole thing, from the start, was done out of an abundance of caution,
not as a result of any specific test results.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Nov 22 03:43PM -0800

On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 09:32:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
 
>However, all this begs another question. Assuming that Wi-Fi is also
>turned off in Airplane mode, what the hell is Google doing
>TRANSMITTING anything?
 
I've been working too hard and have screwed up. I somehow assumed
that it was Airplane Mode that was turned off, not Location Services.
They're quite different.
 
Just ignore me. Maybe a turkey overdose will help.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
oldschool@tubes.com: Nov 22 07:18PM -0600

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:40:17 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
>to Google even if they don+IBk-t have SIM cards installed.
 
>Android devices never offered consumers a way to opt out of the collection
>of cell tower data.
 
Google is 'NOT' your friend !
Stu jaxon <stankowalski02@gmail.com>: Nov 22 10:50AM -0800

hi group, does anyone know if i can use this= 750 Watt Voltage Converter Transformer Heavy Duty Step Up/Down 750W 110-220V as an isolation transformer, it does have output of 110v, ? thanks,
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Nov 22 06:52PM

On 22/11/2017 18:50, Stu jaxon wrote:
> hi group, does anyone know if i can use this= 750 Watt Voltage Converter Transformer Heavy Duty Step Up/Down 750W 110-220V as an isolation transformer, it does have output of 110v, ? thanks,
 
Does your ohmeter say there is a connection across both sides? ie an
autotransformer.
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 11:09AM -0800

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 1:50:46 PM UTC-5, Stu jaxon wrote:
> hi group, does anyone know if i can use this= 750 Watt Voltage Converter Transformer Heavy Duty Step Up/Down 750W 110-220V as an isolation transformer, it does have output of 110v, ? thanks,
 
Most voltage-converter transformers are auto-transformers and do not provide isolation. As Mr. Cook suggests, see if you get continuity from the primary to the secondary.
 
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/transformer/trans28.gif This is an auto-transformer.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
"J.B. Wood" <arl_123234@hotmail.com>: Nov 22 02:39PM -0500

On 11/22/2017 01:50 PM, Stu jaxon wrote:
> hi group, does anyone know if i can use this= 750 Watt Voltage Converter Transformer Heavy Duty Step Up/Down 750W 110-220V as an isolation transformer, it does have output of 110v, ? thanks,
 
Hello, and do you have a particular make and model number of device in
mind? An marketed as an AC isolation transformers usually doesn't
provide voltage conversion with input (primary) to output (secondary)
energy transfer solely via magnetic coupling. There are also adjustable
autotransformers (e.g. the venerable Variac brand) that, for example,
takes 120 VAC at input and can provides 0-130 VAC output. The primary
and secondaries of these devices aren't conductively isolated (as an
ohmmeter test will confirm). There are also devices which combine both
isolation and adjustable autotransformer function in one enclosure. Or
you can simply take, say, a 120 VAC-to-120 VAC isolation transformer and
follow it with an adjustable autotransformer, keeping in mind the
maximum AC current/power ratings of the devices. Sincerely,
 
--
J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_123234@hotmail.com
Stu jaxon <stankowalski02@gmail.com>: Nov 22 12:16PM -0800

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 2:39:09 PM UTC-5, J.B. Wood wrote:
> maximum AC current/power ratings of the devices. Sincerely,
 
> --
> J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_123234@hotmail.com
 
here's the model Norstar ST-750.. it's on ebay for half price used. so more or less this just a surge protector.?
Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>: Nov 23 07:41AM +1100

On 23/11/2017 7:16 AM, Stu jaxon wrote:
 
>> --
>> J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_123234@hotmail.com
 
> here's the model Norstar ST-750.. it's on ebay for half price used. so more or less this just a surge protector.?
 
**No. It's a step-down transformer, or autoformer. No way of knowing,
unless you can contact the manufacturer, or measure it yourself. I doubt
that it is an isolation transformer.
 
Which begs the question: Why do you need an isolation transformer?
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Stu jaxon <stankowalski02@gmail.com>: Nov 22 12:46PM -0800

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 3:41:45 PM UTC-5, Trevor Wilson wrote:
 
> --
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
 
to protect my equipment, i picked up a new hobby.
Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au>: Nov 23 09:18AM +1100

On 23/11/2017 7:46 AM, Stu jaxon wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson
>> www.rageaudio.com.au
 
> to protect my equipment, i picked up a new hobby.
 
**An isolation transformer won't protect your equipment. An isolation
transformer is used to assist in protecting the operator (though that is
far from guaranteed).
 
Why do you imagine that an isolation transformer will protect your
equipment?
What sort of equipment?
What do you imagine the transformer will protect your equipment from?
 
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 12:33PM -0500


> Otherwise, try swapping tubes with another radio. 6A8s are notoriously prone to failure, and glass ones are getting quite scarce. More so than even a 1L6 in my experience.
 
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
 
Updated voltage measurements, broadcast band, volume control fully on,
wallplug voltage 124VAC. All measurements taken ~30 sc
 
6F6:
 
Pin 1, enclosure: 0
Pin 2, heater: 3.2 VAC
Pin 3, plate: 283
Pin 4, screen grid: 283
Pin 5, control grid: 0.8
Pin 6, NC
Pin 7, heater: 3.2 VAC
Pin 8, cathode: 18
 
6J7:
 
Pin 1, enclosure: 0
Pin 2, heater 3.2VAC
Pin 3, plate: 7.7 <------ wut
Pin 4, screen grid: 18
Pin 5, suppressor: 1.8
Pin 6, NC
Pin 7, heater: 3.2VAC
Pin 8, cathode: 1.8
 
grid, top cap: 1mV
 
6K7:
 
Pin 1, enclosure: 0
Pin 2, heater: 3.2VAC
Pin 3, plate: 284
Pin 4, screen: 127
Pin 5, suppressor: 3.5
Pin 6, NC
Pin 7, heater: 3.2Vac
Pin 8, cathode: 3.5
 
grid, top cap: 1mV
 
6A8:
 
Pin 1, enclosure: 0
Pin 2, heater: 3.2VAC
Pin 3, plate: 267
Pin 4, screen: 100
Pin 5, grid 1: -10
Pin 6, grid 2: 235
Pin 7, heater: 3.2VAC
Pin 8, cathode: 4.3
 
grid, top cap: 2mV
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 12:33PM -0500

On 11/22/2017 12:33 PM, bitrex wrote:
 
> Updated voltage measurements, broadcast band, volume control fully on,
> wallplug voltage 124VAC. All measurements taken ~30 sc
 
30 seconds after power on, rather
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 10:04AM -0800

You are getting 6.4V across the filament - which makes sense at 124V at the wallplate.
 
I expect that your transformer is good.
I expect that the elevated B+ is due, in part, to excess capacitance. 6 - 8 uf may not seem like much from 30,000 feet, but it is a 33% increase at ground level. And 6 - 10 uF is a 67% increase at ground level. And, of course, an 11+% increase in wallplate voltage will contribute significantly.
 
Do you have any replacement tubes in your inventory?
 
If not, contact me off-group. I probably have dozens in that line-up and I could send you some proven-good for testing. Also, can you do an alignment?
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 04:02PM -0500

> You are getting 6.4V across the filament - which makes sense at 124V at the wallplate.
 
> I expect that your transformer is good.
> I expect that the elevated B+ is due, in part, to excess capacitance. 6 - 8 uf may not seem like much from 30,000 feet, but it is a 33% increase at ground level. And 6 - 10 uF is a 67% increase at ground level. And, of course, an 11+% increase in wallplate voltage will contribute significantly.
 
Right, that makes sense, but what about the low plate voltage on the
6J7? There's a small RC network there, I don't think I checked all those
for tolerance. I should do that.
 
 
> If not, contact me off-group. I probably have dozens in that line-up and I could send you some proven-good for testing. Also, can you do an alignment?
 
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
 
That'd be great, I can contribute a nominal fee if you like because I'm
definitely not thrilled with the prices I'm seeing on even used variants
at the usual outlets! Yeah, I have an RF signal gen available to do an
alignment, though I've only read about the procedure and never actually
done it in practice, doesn't seem too intimidating.
dansabrservices@yahoo.com: Nov 22 08:56AM -0800

IRRC these units have a 1 Farad capacitor that provides the retainer voltage. This should be about 1/2 round and about 1/4" high. Replace this cap and all should be well again.
 
Dan
dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Nov 22 10:52AM -0800

>I have this receiver and when I lose power, great power company, the station pre-sets are lost and the
>stations need to be entered again. The manual states that they are retained for up to a month. Is there
>a battery to replace?
 
Looking at the schematic and parts list (available for free on
HiFiEngine.com once you've registered) it looks to me as if the memory
backup is via C214, a .22F (or 220,000 uF) "double layer" 5.5-volt
capacitor. This is located on the display board, between the
fluorescent display and the TV/LD indicator LED.
 
These double-layer caps serve as a sort of battery (although they work
differently inside). If it's gotten "leaky" the charge would drain
away and the main IC would lose its standby power and lose its memory.
 
It can probably be replaced, but the chances are that this would
require desoldering and/or clipping of the old cap's leads, and
soldering in of a new double-layer cap of this sort. I doubt it's in
a socket or battery holder.
 
This should be done by someone with experience in this sort of repair,
to avoid damaging the display board, other components, or the
technician :-)
Peter Easthope <petereasthope@gmail.com>: Nov 22 09:59AM -0800

Hi,
 
I want to id the 7 power transistors in an IEC centrifuge. Three of
them visible here.
http://easthope.ca/CentrifugePowerTransistors.jpg
 
Each small increment on the scale is 1 mm. The plastic case is about
15 mm wide by 20 mm high. Usually the metal cooling plate on the back
of a transistor would project above the plastic. Not so here. About
half the black plastic case is beneath the p.c.b. in this photo. The
grey material in the photo appears to be a silicone impregnated cloth
for heat transfer. The black panel above is an aluminum cooling fin
and folds under the transistors.
 
I failed to find a match with the transistors listed here.
http://www.siliconfareast.com/to-types.htm
 
Ideas? Thanks, ... Peter E.
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 10:13AM -0800

TO-247 case.
 
 
https://www.vishay.com/docs/95223/to247.pdf
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Peter Easthope <petereasthope@gmail.com>: Nov 22 10:50AM -0800

> TO-247 case.
 
> https://www.vishay.com/docs/95223/to247.pdf
 
Thanks! According to
http://www.interfacebus.com/semiconductor-transistor-packages-TO-247.html ,
the TO-247 case is used for BJT, FET and SCR. A good start to understanding
the control of the centrifuge.
 
Thanks again, ... Peter E.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 3 updates in 3 topics

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 03:53AM -0800

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 3:17:49 AM UTC-5, RickiRick wrote:
 
 
> The problem is with clogged ac condensate drain. I know, it happens. But
> by me ir happens incredibly often
 
There are tablets for that. Clearly your maintenance program is sadly lacking.
 
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Nu-Calgon-4296-60-Condensate-Pan-Treatment-Tablets?gclid=Cj0KCQiA3dTQBRDnARIsAGKSfllwFy3QGaGwVMjzKzEYKbd07G8cDLUyJ_l25_IOO2Cxs1jpil1jC_4aAu3YEALw_wcB
 
We use these or-equal in our window units, and I have our service people use them in the much larger units for our practices. Never had a condensate drain clog in the last 20+ years where these were in use - and regular service was/is done.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
Johann Beretta <invalid@invalid.org>: Nov 22 02:34AM -0800

On Wed, 15 Nov 2017 12:58:20 +0100, "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
wrote:
 
<snip>
>acts on a hung device, say.
 
>I know one or two, but they are expensive.
>A timer reboot is too aggressive when a reboot is not needed.
 
A Netonix switch. Single best investment I made for my WISP.
 
I set them to ping a device on the opposite tower (in a PtP link) so that if the
radio (on this side) hangs (but still responds to pings) it won't fool the
watchdog into thinking everything is fine. The monitored device must actually
pass traffic so that a ping packet can travel to the opposite side, be answered,
and then return to the Netonix, thereby resetting the periodic timer.
"David Farber" <farberbear.unspam@aol.com>: Nov 21 09:34PM -0800

Ralph Mowery wrote:
> and drop it to about 10 volts below that voltage. Then just touch
> the bulb and it will fire off. The extra heat eill be enough to make
> it light up.
 
Hi Ralph,
 
Thanks for the great explanation.
 
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 5 topics

cowridermi@hotmail.com: Nov 22 08:06AM -0800

I have this receiver and when I lose power, great power company, the station pre-sets are lost and the stations need to be entered again. The manual states that they are retained for up to a month. Is there a battery to replace?
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 08:25AM -0800

> I have this receiver and when I lose power, great power company, the station pre-sets are lost and the stations need to be entered again. The manual states that they are retained for up to a month. Is there a battery to replace?
 
There will either be a battery or a capacitor for that purpose. Yes, they wear (out) and yes, replacing it should do it. If you have a schematic, you should be able to trace it, and determine what it is.
 
Some products, such as Revox and a couple of others, have user-replaceable batteries (AA batteries behind a little door somewhere) I am not sure if Sony ever took this expedient, but if they did it would be in the manual.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Nov 21 07:16PM

>> protect a motor etc and alerts a user to a problem.
> "Ball detent overload release" is one name for this type of clutch.
> Eric
 
I'll go for that term. A similar sort of mechanism as the percussion
part of a percussion drill, hence the clattering noise when triggered.
In the gear train of a posket digital camera, jamming due to a silly bit
of plastic anti-dirt skirt, that has aged or degraded and gets between
the sliding barrel segments. So what sounds like a nasty slipped
gear/broken gear tooth, is designed-in noise
tschw10117@gmail.com: Nov 22 07:59AM -0800

We used to use this type of clutch in linear actuators in some of our machines, I think we may have called them torque clutches or ratcheting clutches. The ratcheting noise proved unacceptable to customers. We developed circuitry to detect the stall current of the motor and controlled the actuator travel that way, rather than thru brute force timing.
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 09:01AM -0500

Paper caps all replaced, and a couple out-of-tolerance cathode resistors
swapped out for 1 watt carbon film. The 6F6 output stage cathode bypass
electrolytic was also replaced; it wasn't in the can as specified in the
schematic but was a "Dandee" brand 10uF axial lead type air-wired inside
the chassis.
 
The paper caps were a hodge-podge of different brands - Mallory,
Aerovox, Sprague, Tobe Detustchmann. The can electrolytic is an 8uF/8uF
unit instead of the specified 6-6-6. Some of the paper caps weren't the
correct values e.g. the 0.25uF paper cap was actually a (very large)
0.5uF unit. I'm guessing the last time this radio was serviced might
have been during WW2 and perhaps wartime rationing had something to do
with it - repair shop made use of whatever they had on hand.
 
Maybe surprisingly both sections of the can electrolytic reformed OK
running a current thru it via stepping up the voltage ranges while on
the "leakage" setting of my Heathkit IT-11. It took about a minute for
the eye to open at the rated max voltage of 450. I measure a "power
factor" of around 3-4% on both sections at that voltage. Don't know if
it would be good to leave that as is but I'm using it in-place for testing.
 
The 5Z4 and 6F6 + power supply circuit seems to be working fine, with
the set powered up the voltage on the first capacitor section and the
second after the field coil choke look approximately correct.
Injecting1kHz into the 6F6 grid and into the grid of the 6J7 detector I
get a strong output through the speaker with no hum.
 
The problem now is that the plate and screen voltages on the 6A8 and 6K7
are way off; the service manual specifies 195 and 210 for plate voltages
respectively but I'm actually getting more like 260 and 275. The screen
voltages are specified as being 70 and 90 respectively but I'm looking
at about 130 for both of them. Pin 5 of the 6A8 looks correct at about
-10.5 volts. Cathode resistors and bypasses were replaced on both of
them but the cathode voltages are high, e.g. with the AM broadcast band
selected, volume all the way up I'm reading about 4.8 volts on the
cathode of the 6A8 instead of 3.
 
With a 3 meter longwire antenna I'm getting one local strong AM station
(50kW about 8 miles down the road) at night but the AM band is otherwise
silent. I'm guessing at this point one or both of the 6A8/6K7 has poor
emission? I don't own a vintage tube tester but I have both HV and low
voltage bench supplies available, any suggestion on how to rig up a
quick emissions test?
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 09:02AM -0500

On 11/22/2017 09:01 AM, bitrex wrote:
> emission? I don't own a vintage tube tester but I have both HV and low
> voltage bench supplies available, any suggestion on how to rig up a
> quick emissions test?
 
Schematic: <http://www.nostalgiaair.org/pagesbymodel/542/M0009542.pdf>
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 09:04AM -0500

On 11/22/2017 09:01 AM, bitrex wrote:
 
> them but the cathode voltages are high, e.g. with the AM broadcast band
> selected, volume all the way up I'm reading about 4.8 volts on the
> cathode of the 6A8 instead of 3.
 
BTW I also replaced the screen resistor feeding both screen circuits as
well as the screen bypass cap. No change.
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 06:54AM -0800

What is your wallplate voltage?
 
110:195 = XXX/260 where XXX = 147 VAC.
110:210 = XXX/275 where XXX = 144 VAC.
110:3 = XXX/4.8 where XXX = 179 VAC
 
These results are reasonably self-consistent as what comes to a volume-control can have many variations. Note that increasing capacitance in many cases will also increase B+ and other down-line voltages, and generally *SHOULD NOT BE DONE*, especially in radios with field-coil speakers such as that one.
 
So, hazarding a guess at long distance, you have a combination of high wallplate voltage, excessive capacitance and measurement variance.
 
 
This voltage of 14X seems extreme, but given that these sets were measured with VTVMs back in the day, and VTVMs load very differently than a modern VOM. And the vintage unit was not "true RMS" and so could measure low. Do you have an old analog meter? Or, perhaps a VTVM?
 
I have long-since learned to distrust factory-schematic voltages. Generally. I will bring a radio up to 110V on the Variac and measure secondary voltages off the transformer (unloaded, then loaded) to see what is what. If I get consistent discrepancies, I attribute it to measurement variances. If I get inconsistent discrepancies - more than 15% apart - I will look for a bad transformer winding or some other problem of that nature.
 
Did you replace the line-filter cap on the line-cord? Do so with a type Y safety capacitor. That will help on reception.
 
I have no idea where you are, but if you are anywhere near southeastern PA, USA, I would be glad to test your tubes. I keep both a little Simpson emissions tester and a Hickok 539B for the heavy-duty stuff.
 
Otherwise, try swapping tubes with another radio. 6A8s are notoriously prone to failure, and glass ones are getting quite scarce. More so than even a 1L6 in my experience.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 10:22AM -0500

> 110:210 = XXX/275 where XXX = 144 VAC.
> 110:3 = XXX/4.8 where XXX = 179 VAC
 
> These results are reasonably self-consistent as what comes to a volume-control can have many variations. Note that increasing capacitance in many cases will also increase B+ and other down-line voltages, and generally *SHOULD NOT BE DONE*, especially in radios with field-coil speakers such as that one.
 
Using my DMM on the "AC" setting, out of the wall it's reading 124 VAC.
 
 
> I have long-since learned to distrust factory-schematic voltages. Generally. I will bring a radio up to 110V on the Variac and measure secondary voltages off the transformer (unloaded, then loaded) to see what is what. If I get consistent discrepancies, I attribute it to measurement variances. If I get inconsistent discrepancies - more than 15% apart - I will look for a bad transformer winding or some other problem of that nature.
 
> Did you replace the line-filter cap on the line-cord? Do so with a type Y safety capacitor. That will help on reception.
 
> I have no idea where you are, but if you are anywhere near southeastern PA, USA, I would be glad to test your tubes. I keep both a little Simpson emissions tester and a Hickok 539B for the heavy-duty stuff.
 
Thanks for the offer! I'm currently in Providence, RI most of the time
so a little far, unfortunately...:(
 
> Otherwise, try swapping tubes with another radio. 6A8s are notoriously prone to failure, and glass ones are getting quite scarce. More so than even a 1L6 in my experience.
 
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
 
Will do. Yeah, gosh, NOS 6A8Gs are expensive! The schematic specifies
either the metal or "G" shape enclosure, I guess the GT doesn't have the
correct pinout? In any case, all the tubes currently fitted in the set
are the metal enclosure type.
bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: Nov 22 10:35AM -0500

> 110:210 = XXX/275 where XXX = 144 VAC.
> 110:3 = XXX/4.8 where XXX = 179 VAC
 
> These results are reasonably self-consistent as what comes to a volume-control can have many variations. Note that increasing capacitance in many cases will also increase B+ and other down-line voltages, and generally *SHOULD NOT BE DONE*, especially in radios with field-coil speakers such as that one.
 
Seems extreme for a 6uF - 8uF swap, but I'm not experienced enough with
tube PSUs to know for sure. Weird that the cathode resistor voltage is
too high, I'd think that if emission were the problem it would be too
low. There's definitely not enough voltage drop across the screen
resistor. I'm going to measure every voltage on every pin again and post
it to make sure I haven't bungled a measurement, somewhere.
 
> So, hazarding a guess at long distance, you have a combination of high wallplate voltage, excessive capacitance and measurement variance.
 
> This voltage of 14X seems extreme, but given that these sets were measured with VTVMs back in the day, and VTVMs load very differently than a modern VOM. And the vintage unit was not "true RMS" and so could measure low. Do you have an old analog meter? Or, perhaps a VTVM?
 
Unfortunately not, all my meters are DMMs. Unlike a tube tester that's
probably a tool I can get my hands on readily though
 
> I have long-since learned to distrust factory-schematic voltages. Generally. I will bring a radio up to 110V on the Variac and measure secondary voltages off the transformer (unloaded, then loaded) to see what is what. If I get consistent discrepancies, I attribute it to measurement variances. If I get inconsistent discrepancies - more than 15% apart - I will look for a bad transformer winding or some other problem of that nature.
 
> Did you replace the line-filter cap on the line-cord? Do so with a type Y safety capacitor. That will help on reception.
 
Ok, will do, it's currently just a 630V regular film type.
 
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 07:58AM -0800

On Wednesday, November 22, 2017 at 10:22:52 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
 
> either the metal or "G" shape enclosure, I guess the GT doesn't have the
> correct pinout? In any case, all the tubes currently fitted in the set
> are the metal enclosure type.
 
The GT is fine, but it is a short tube and often the grid-cap lead will not reach the top of the tube over the shield - required for a glass-type tube. If you have no shield, stick with the metal tubes. \
 
It may also need an alignment, by the way. Are you equipped to do that? It is certainly simple enough - with the right tools.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
harry newton <harry@is.invalid>: Nov 21 10:40PM

He who is harry newton said on Tue, 21 Nov 2017 22:32:53 +-0000 (UTC):
 
> Google admits it tracked user location data even when the setting was
> turned off. It did so via cell tower data.
> <https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/21/16684818/google-location-tracking-cell-tower-data-android-os-firebase-privacy>
 
Does anyone know more about disabling "Firebase Cloud Messaging" services?
For example, what if you're on Android 4.3 (like I am) with all location
services disabled?
 
Here's another article...
 
Google collects Android users+IBk- locations even when location services are
disabled
 
<https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/>
Since the beginning of 2017, Android phones have been collecting the
addresses of nearby cellular towers+IBQ-even when location services are
disabled+IBQ-and sending that data back to Google.
 
Google was apparently collecting cell tower data from all modern Android
devices before being contacted by Quartz. A source familiar with the matter
said the cell tower addresses were being sent to Google after a change in
early 2017 to the Firebase Cloud Messaging service, which is owned by
Google and runs on Android phones by default.
 
Devices with a cellular data or WiFi connection appear to send the data to
Google each time they come within range of a new cell tower. When Android
devices are connected to a WiFi network, they will send the tower addresses
to Google even if they don+IBk-t have SIM cards installed.
 
Android devices never offered consumers a way to opt out of the collection
of cell tower data.
harry newton <harry@is.invalid>: Nov 21 11:48PM

He who is nospam said on Tue, 21 Nov 2017 17:55:51 -0500:
 
 
> many people told you that you were still being tracked, but you blindly
> dismissed it.
 
> now you know.
 
You would love that to be the case, but, you're jumping to conclusions out
of confirmation bias (i.e., you *wish* it were true).
 
I looked and I don't think it's the case for me since I don't see (yet)
anything called "Firebase Cloud Messaging" on my Android 4.3 phone.
 
Time will tell which phones were affected, but this is a good one for
Google to get sued on, as it certainly will take some 'splaining why they
captured unique cell tower IDs when Location Services were disabled.
 
All we know, so far, is that it started in January of this year, and that
it used "Firebase Cloud Messaging" services - whatever that is. I googled
it, and I don't think it's even on my phone - but it's too early to tell
just yet what's going on.
 
Google apparently immediately said they'd terminate the practice of
capturing cell tower unique IDs - so, it doesn't appear to be something
they sanctioned (because they wouldn't likely have agreed to terminate the
practice so quickly if they had their legal ducks already lined up).
 
Time will tell which devices are affected - but I don't even see the app on
my phone - which is rooted - so I can delete it - if I can find it - but it
doesn't seem to exist.
 
To other android users:
Q: Do you see a process for "Firebase Cloud Messaging" services?
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Nov 21 07:26PM -0800

On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:48:55 +0000 (UTC), harry newton
 
>To other android users:
> Q: Do you see a process for "Firebase Cloud Messaging" services?
 
It's not an app. It's service:
<https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/>
<https://firebase.google.com/products/cloud-messaging/>
You download the API and link it into your application. It runs on a
variety of platforms including Apple IOS.
 
More:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=Firebase+Cloud+Messaging>
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
harry newton <harry@is.invalid>: Nov 22 03:36AM

He who is Jeff Liebermann said on Tue, 21 Nov 2017 19:26:10 -0800:
 
> variety of platforms including Apple IOS.
 
> More:
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=Firebase+Cloud+Messaging>
 
It's still early on since the news came out today, but it behooves us to
figure out then which apps incorporated the Firebase service.
 
BTW, I think this recent "mashable" article is dead wrong in that they
minimize the outrage by saying the unique cell tower ID was encrypted and
discarded.
 
"Nope, your Android phone's not secretly tracking your location when you
tell it not to"
<http://mashable.com/2017/11/21/google-android-location-tracking-services-turned-off/>
 
The mere fact the cell tower ID was *transmitted* to Google servers is the
breach of trust, IMHO.
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Nov 21 11:53PM -0500

harry newton wrote on 11/21/2017 6:48 PM:
> capturing cell tower unique IDs - so, it doesn't appear to be something
> they sanctioned (because they wouldn't likely have agreed to terminate the
> practice so quickly if they had their legal ducks already lined up).
 
You would love for that to be the case, but you're jumping to conclusions
out of confirmation bias (i.e., you *wish* it were true).
 
There are the legal issues involved, but just as important if not more
important is the public image perception.
 
--
 
Rick C
 
Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998
harry newton <harry@is.invalid>: Nov 22 05:05AM

He who is rickman said on Tue, 21 Nov 2017 23:53:06 -0500:
 
> You would love for that to be the case, but you're jumping to conclusions
> out of confirmation bias (i.e., you *wish* it were true).
 
I'm the one *reporting* the issue here, not you, for heaven's sake.
I'm the one intimating Google can get *sued* for this, perhaps.
I'm the one asking for more information, for heaven's sake.
I'm the one who said Mashable errantly minimized the danger.
 
Not you. Not nospam.
Me.
 
All I'm saying are facts.
All you've said, is nothing of value.
 
I'm asking others to look on their phones for these reputed "Firebase Cloud
Messaging" services.
 
My phone is jailbroken where I can delete anything I want, where I *looked*
for anything on the phone remotely resembling a "Firebase Cloud Messaging"
service. I have plenty of root-only apps which seek out such things, but I
haven't seen it yet.
 
Admittedly, my phone is ancient, where the articles specifically mentioned
only the newer Android phones were updated in January of this year to send
the unique cell tower ID to Google servers.
 
So I'm the one asking *you* (and everyone here) what *they* have on their
phone that resembles "Firebase Cloud Messaging" services running.
 
Where's the value YOU added?
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Nov 22 12:32AM -0500

harry newton wrote on 11/22/2017 12:05 AM:
> I'm the one who said Mashable errantly minimized the danger.
 
> Not you. Not nospam. Me.
 
> All I'm saying are facts.
 
And speculation... "it doesn't appear to be something
they sanctioned (because they wouldn't likely have agreed to terminate the
practice so quickly if they had their legal ducks already lined up)."
 
 
> All you've said, is nothing of value.
 
I think there is value in distinguishing between the facts and your
speculation.
 
 
> So I'm the one asking *you* (and everyone here) what *they* have on their
> phone that resembles "Firebase Cloud Messaging" services running.
 
Which has nothing to do with reporting facts.
 
 
> Where's the value YOU added?
 
Pointing out your speculation which is *not* fact.
 
--
 
Rick C
 
Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998
harry newton <harry@is.invalid>: Nov 22 05:40AM

He who is Jeff Liebermann said on Tue, 21 Nov 2017 19:26:10 -0800:
 
> It's not an app. It's service:
 
Do you know how to tell, definitively, if any given phone is running this
compromised service?
 
I don't see it running when I look using these instructions:
<https://www.howtogeek.com/258300/how-to-access-androids-list-of-running-apps-in-6.0-marshmallow-and-above/>
 
However, it could be running *inside* an app that linked to the API.
 
When I check it with adb, I get the following error:
$ adb shell service list
error: device not found
 
I can check with "ps" though:
$ ps | grep -i service
Returns about a dozen services such as:
org.simalliance.openmobileapi.service:remote
samsung.clipboardsaveservice
com.sec.android.inputmethod:ACService
etc.
But:
$ ps | grep -i firebase
Returns nothing
 
At this point, I see no evidence (yet anyway) of firebase services on my
Android 4.3 phone. Do you?
harry newton <harry@is.invalid>: Nov 22 05:42AM

He who is rickman said on Wed, 22 Nov 2017 00:32:39 -0500:

>> Where's the value YOU added?
 
> Pointing out your speculation which is *not* fact.
 
Fair enough.
 
Do you know how to tell, definitively, if any given phone is running this
compromised service?
 
I don't see it running when I look using these instructions:
<https://www.howtogeek.com/258300/how-to-access-androids-list-of-running-apps-in-6.0-marshmallow-and-above/>
 
However, it could be running *inside* an app that linked to the API.
 
When I check it with adb, I get the following error:
$ adb shell service list
error: device not found
 
I can check with "ps" though:
$ ps | grep -i service
Returns about a dozen services such as:
org.simalliance.openmobileapi.service:remote
samsung.clipboardsaveservice
com.sec.android.inputmethod:ACService
etc.
But:
$ ps | grep -i firebase
Returns nothing
 
At this point, I see no evidence (yet anyway) of firebase services on my
Android 4.3 phone. Do you see evidence of it running on yours?
bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Nov 22 05:09AM -0800

On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 12:40AM, harry newton wrote:
 
>Do you know how to tell, definitively, if any given phone is running this
>compromised service?
 
>I don't see it running when I look using these instructions:
<https://www.howtogeek.com/258300/how-to-access-androids-list-of-running-apps-in-6.0-marshmallow-and-above/>
 
>However, it could be running *inside* an app that linked to the API
 
And at what point are you to assume that additional hidden in-house billing or update-service programming (that can't be turned-off) automatically reveals a phone's location at an un-announced time?
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 22 05:57AM -0800

For What It's Worth
 
Buffalo Springfield (1967)
 
There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
 
I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
 
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
 
It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
 
What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side
 
It's s time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
 
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away
 
We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, now, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
Stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down
 
Not much has changed.
 
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
jurb6006@gmail.com: Nov 21 09:14PM -0800

What kind of failures ? Heat pumps get bad reversing valves, compressors get bad valves period. If it is not installed properly that happens alot more. At best, before the system is filled, flushed and sealed it should be on a vacuum pump overnight.
 
If your problems are electrical that is much easier to deal with. Also, don't brush and disturb those evaporator and condenser coils. If they clog up you either need filters or something to keep the gunk out, but if you have to clean them use compressed air.
RickiRick <RickiRick.145ae8e8@diybanter.com>: Nov 22 08:14AM

> don't brush and disturb those evaporator and condenser coils. If they
> clog up you either need filters or something to keep the gunk out, but
> if you have to clean them use compressed air.
 
The problem is with clogged ac condensate drain. I know, it happens. But
by me ir happens incredibly often
 
 
 
 
--
RickiRick
tabbypurr@gmail.com: Nov 22 03:49AM -0800

On Wednesday, 22 November 2017 08:17:49 UTC, RickiRick wrote:
> > if you have to clean them use compressed air.
 
> The problem is with clogged ac condensate drain. I know, it happens. But
> by me ir happens incredibly often
 
I've had that with fridges, and solved it by putting copper wire down the drain tube & leaving it in place. It inhibits mould, and is easily wiggled to clear any blockage.
 
 
NT
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