Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 17 updates in 4 topics

Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 10:45PM

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote:
 
> Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
> towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
> area?
 
Summary of the freebie app selected after a few days of testing.
 
I've dumped the freeware version of Network Signal Info because it kept
hanging, and opted to use as my primary real-time app "Network Cell Info
Lite" (The best logging app was NetMonitor).
 
One nice thing about Network Signal Info payware is that it reports not
only the current (aka registered) cell, but also the neighbor cell
strengths.
http://wilysis.com/networkcellinfo
 
Here are some screenshots of today's scan to help you see what it reports.
 
The good news is that I've brought my signal strength in the mountains,
miles from the nearest T-Mobile tower, up from around minus ninety to minus
one hundred decibels to consistently better than minus fifty-five to minus
sixty-five decibels (which is astounding!).
 
Here are the results of a scan this morning from my new "gsm" folder:
http://i.cubeupload.com/lgDafB.jpg
 
In this scan are the unique cell tower identification numbers:
http://i.cubeupload.com/5H7qmX.jpg
 
The second tab shows the ever-changing raw data in text format:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3gMofW.jpg
 
While the third tab shows a time-sequence graph showing consistency:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3rDsHX.jpg
 
There are multiple plots of multiple types of signal strengths:
http://i.cubeupload.com/4HQqh8.jpg
 
And a quick table of DATA ON/OFF connection percentage statistics:
http://i.cubeupload.com/NQ0xJU.jpg
 
You can export the entire database in multiple file formats:
http://i.cubeupload.com/W1AAaK.jpg
 
And there is a nice summary page of the device & sim card information:
http://i.cubeupload.com/hCXKXJ.jpg
 
I may end up getting the payware if I can't find a freeware app that
reports the neighbor cell strengths, which would also be useful
information.
 
But there are plenty of freeware apps to explore, e.g., this MIT app:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/CellTracker.shtml
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 19 02:07AM

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 01:52:24 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote:
 
> Q: Which app do you use on iOS or Android to figure out all the cellular
> towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
> area?
 
This is a question and initial observation for Jeff Liebermann.
 
QUESTION:
Does a cellular booster propagate the original cell tower identification?
(Or does the boosted signal have its own cell tower identification number?)
 
OBSERVATION:
1. I can range my cellular signal strength by almost half a million times:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zN4Dkb.jpg
 
2. I ran an experiment, starting with a stead very good signal strength:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TPLLXF.jpg
 
3. Then I unplugged, one by one, the two micro towers in my house:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ciKH3h.jpg
 
Interestingly, when I unplugged the router-connected micro tower, I could
see the unique cell tower ID change immediately to a set of cell towers
that are known to be within a few miles of me.
 
Yet, when I unplugged the cellular booster, the signal dropped, but the
cell towers simply went to a much larger set of cell towers, some of which
are known to be ten or fifteen miles away. However, I could still see the
set of towers in the prior step in the makeup.
 
My initial assumption (which needs to be tested) is two fold:
a. It seems the router-connected micro tower has its own unique cell id.
b. It seems the booster may simply propagate the "real" cell tower cell id.
 
Does that make sense?
Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>: Feb 19 02:31AM

> I knew how you got the decibel RSSI (received signal strength indication),
> but the question was how do you know which "tower" you're getting your
> current signal from.
 
I haven never cared to check. If I unplug the t-mbile cellspot, my
signal in the basement drops significantly and I lose calls.
 
I don't care which tower or micro tower I am connected to.
 
> So just having a decibel reading doesn't tell me *which* tower I'm
> connected to (since there are at least three or more to choose from).
 
So? Who cares?
 
> The good news is that my decibel readings are now in the -50dBm to -60dBm
> range (instead of the minus 90 to minus 100 decibel range as they were
> before I hooked up the micro towers!).
 
That's all that matters.
 
--
The real American folksong is a rag -- a mental jag A rhythmic tone for
the chronic blues
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 07:38PM -0800

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:09:46 -0800, The Real Bev
>> On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 14:27:15 -0800, The Real Bev
>> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
 
> Just how much can a person make from app-advertising?
 
You keep thinking of an Android App. This is a hardware based
direction finder that has a built in computah to do the number
crunching. No smartphone or Android gizmo involved. Therefore, I
won't be selling apps on the Play Store.
 
"Google Play app revenue up 82% in Q4 2016, 60% growth for the App
Store"
<http://www.gsmarena.com/google_play_app_revenue_up_82_in_q4_2016_60_growth_for_the_app_store-news-22759.php>
Google Play store collected $3.3Billion in revenue. Last year, the
split was 70% Google and 30% developer. Therefore the developers
collected about:
$3.3 billion / 0.7 * 0.3 = $1.4 billion
This year, the split is 85% Google and 15% developer, which indicates
that Google is getting greedy, developers were making to much money,
or both.
 
Blundering onward, the Play store has 2.6 million apps available.
About half are free, so that's 1.3 million apps. Average revenue per
app would be:
$1.4 billion revenue / 1.3 million apps = $1,100 revenue/app/year
Not enough to support product development.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 07:48PM -0800

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:14:27 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
>Beta is the Southeast FACING vertical antenna on the cell tower
>Gamma is the Southwest FACING vertical antenna on the cell tower
>http://www.evdoforums.com/thread15374.html
 
I dialed #878# and got:
"Welcome to Verizon Wireless. Your call cannot be completed as
dialed..."
 
>cell id. Also, the newer Android APIs now seem to expose the frequency
>bands:
>http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/cellular_repeater_inside.shtml
 
Nice article. I think there is a way of extracting the sector but I
don't know what it might be and am too lazy to work it out right now.
My leaky roof and irate customers come first.
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 18 10:52PM -0500

In article <514iachpen7vqkn4thndi5i91ls58rvh96@4ax.com>, Jeff
> app would be:
> $1.4 billion revenue / 1.3 million apps = $1,100 revenue/app/year
> Not enough to support product development.
 
the average isn't what matters. a quality app can be *very* profitable.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 08:14PM -0800

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 21:31:53 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
>http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/images/Screenshot_2013-04-16-15-29-00
 
>CellTracker:
>http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/CellTracker
 
Nice app, but it does NOT show the lat-long of the local Verizon cell
site. See attached screen grab:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/CellTracker.jpg>
Celltracker for Android 5.0 on a Moto G v1 phone running Android 5.1.
Note from the screengrab that the GPS is on and running. The "WIFI
Lat-Long" is the location of my house, not the local cell site. I
don't know where my Lat-Long came from (probably Google Maps
database).
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>: Feb 19 01:38AM -0500

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 22:52:40 -0500, nospam wrote:
 
> the average isn't what matters. a quality app can be *very* profitable.
 
So can a lottery ticket, and it's easier to develop. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 18 11:13PM -0800

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:07:16 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong
>> towers and signal strengths of the cellular signal (CDMA or GSM) in your
>> area?
 
>This is a question and initial observation for Jeff Liebermann.
 
Why me?
 
>Does a cellular booster propagate the original cell tower identification?
>(Or does the boosted signal have its own cell tower identification number?)
 
By "booster" are you referring to a bi-directional amplifier like
products from Wilson:
<http://www.wilsonpro.com/residential-cell-phone-signal-boosters>
or Wi-Ex (zBoost)?
<https://www.signalboosters.com/zboost-signal-boosters>
I so, they repeat exactly the original signals both incoming and
outgoing. What you hear is the tower ID. The device does not
generate any new data or belch a new tower ID.
 
However, if you're referring to a Femtocell or similar internet
connected microcellular device, the answer is yes, they do have their
own unique ID.
 
>My initial assumption (which needs to be tested) is two fold:
>a. It seems the router-connected micro tower has its own unique cell id.
 
Yep.
 
>b. It seems the booster may simply propagate the "real" cell tower cell id.
 
Yep.
 
>Does that make sense?
 
Yep.
 
How far away do you think the strongest (or nearest) T-mobile cell
tower is located from your test location? Any possibility that one of
your neighbors might have a T-mobile microcell box that you're
hearing? I'm suspicious of the rather strong tower signal.
 
Back of the envelope calculation:
+27dBm Estimated transmit power from the cell site
+10dB My guess of the panel antenna gain
-53dBm Receive signal level from your test.
 
Path loss = 27 + 10 + 53 = 90dB
Calculating the distance where the path loss would be -90dB at 700MHz:
<http://www.proxim.com/products/knowledge-center/calculations/calculations-free-space-loss>
is about 0.7 miles or about 4,000 ft. The cell tower would need to be
rather close to your location for that to work. Like I said, I'm
suspicious of what you're measuring.
 
 
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 19 03:22PM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 16:29:17 -0500, nospam wrote:
 
>> As far as anyone can tell, it's impossible to get the cell id tower from
>> the phone on an iOS device,
 
> wrong.
 
Certainly, technically competetent iOS users have tried over the years...
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13399659/get-cellid-mcc-mnc-lac-and-network-in-ios-5-1
https://blog.hqcodeshop.fi/archives/253-iPhone-cell-Field-Test-mode.html
http://www.ahmadrifky.com/ict-stuff/iphone-measuring-your-carrier-operator-signalbandwidth-license-and-location-in-just-a-split-seconds
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4995211?start=0&tstart=0
 
Even iOS app developers have tried...
https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/21018
https://sourceforge.net/p/dpfdelphiios/tickets/232/
 
What do you know that they don't know?
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 19 03:32PM

On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 02:31:01 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
 
> I haven never cared to check. If I unplug the t-mbile cellspot, my
> signal in the basement drops significantly and I lose calls.
 
You are perfectly correct in that simply unplugging a single micro tower
will likely cause the signal strength to "fluctuate".
 
The signal strength, however, can easily be similar since it fluctuates
normally anyway, e.g., all my neighbors also have micro towers (basically
everyone has them out here).
 
Worse, when I unplug my booster, it takes about fifteen minutes for the
cell signal to set itself up, and, even then, it seems that the booster
simply "passes through" the cell tower ID it is boosting (I need to
research that further though). So, unplugging it in order to figure out if
I'm connected to it, is problematic.
 
However far worse than that, when I unplug my router-connected micro tower,
it takes multiple hours for the thing to set itself up. T-Mobile says that
it can take up to two hours, but I found out that it takes even longer than
that, as last night I literally fell asleep before the thing started taking
on my cell phone.
 
I had to look at the log file in the morning.
 
BTW, for Jeff Liebermann, I found another app that logs the connections,
so, that's three apps which log all the towers connected to, only one of
which (NetMonitor) allows you to modify how that log appears (which is a
nice feature) to the user in real time.
 
Some logs save as text, others as CSV, so I'll write up separately for you
and others to benefit, which apps were best for logging the cell tower IDs.

> I don't care which tower or micro tower I am connected to.
 
Most people don't care which tower they're connected to; however, if they
were debugging their connection, they'd start to care.
 
In my case, T-Mobile only allows one device, which is what I found out when
the second device tried to use the same 911 address as the first device,
so, they "may" ask for one of the devices back (I had asked for a third
device, but that is currently out of the question).
 
If I have to give one device back, it is helpful to know which device
worked best, and for that, waiting two or more hours between tests is crazy
when I can just look at the unique cell id of the router-based device to
tell if that's what I'm connecting to.
 
>> So just having a decibel reading doesn't tell me *which* tower I'm
>> connected to (since there are at least three or more to choose from).
 
> So? Who cares?
 
If my good signal strength is actually due to my neighbor's micro tower,
how would I know?
 
If I have to send back one device to T-Mobile, which device would I send
back?
 
>> range (instead of the minus 90 to minus 100 decibel range as they were
>> before I hooked up the micro towers!).
 
> That's all that matters.
 
Not really. If T-Mobile wants one of their devices back, which one do I
give them?
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 19 10:43AM -0500

In article <o8cd8h$cep$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
> >> the phone on an iOS device,
 
> > wrong.
 
> Certainly, technically competetent iOS users have tried over the years...
 
and have succeeded:
 
<https://ociotec.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/proveedor_telefonia.png>
 
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C29OaIVXAAEPTMG.jpg>
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 19 10:43AM -0500

In article <5ywbkrysutvt$.1a5ko8xbsdqeh.dlg@40tude.net>, tlvp
 
> > the average isn't what matters. a quality app can be *very* profitable.
 
> So can a lottery ticket, and it's easier to develop. Cheers, -- tlvp
 
whooosh.
Steve Kraus <screen@SPAMBLOCKfilmteknik.com>: Feb 19 07:38AM -0600

I've gotten curious about the accuracy or not of these. I am speaking of
the motor-driven timers with a 24-hour dial on the front.
 
Obviously not something someone would use where precision is required so
this is purely an academic question.
 
I was under the impression that these were driven by tiny sync motors and
therefore as accurate as the power line frequency just like a traditional
electric wall clock. Not easy to set precisely but should repeat nearly to
the second day after day. Or so I thought.
 
Recently, using a timer on Christmas lights, I noticed variation as much as
a minute. But that was a newer timer and I don't know what kind of motor
it has. I know on the older ones, the motor rotor could randomly start in
either direction but there was device in gear train that would kick it to
reverse if it happened to start by running in reverse. Doesn't that sound
like a sync motor?
 
So for a few days I've been running a little experiment. I have a number
of timers of various vintages. I ran each to where it just kicked on then
unplugged it. I put the group on a couple of outlet strips and powered
them at the same time, each hooked to an indicator lamp. At the expected
time each night I put a smartphone running an NTP-connected clock app
nearby and video the scene with another phone so as to produce a record of
when each turned on. I was expecting them to switch on a few seconds
before the designated time (based on how many seconds elapsed during the
setup adjustment between the timer triggering and my unplugging it) but the
variation has been much greater, nearly a minute early on one but generally
all over the map and different each night and not in unison as though the
power line frequency* had varied. Maybe this is from mechanical variations
from the switch part of the timer snapping over. Or maybe they are not
sync motors after all.
 
* I think the utilities used to make up for lost or gained time keeping it
to ą5 seconds. Now I think it's ą25 seconds. That doesn't account for the
variation I see though it could be some of it.
 
Again, there is no practical point to this; a digital timer can be used
where precision is needed. I am just curious.
Jim Mueller <wrongname@nospam.com>: Feb 19 12:13AM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 12:49:59 -0600, oldschool wrote:
 
snip
 
> For those of you who work on a lot of this tube equipment, does it seem
> that 140V B+ is low? It does to me, with 450V AC coming from the power
> transformer,
 
Probably bad electrolytics, at least for the first guess. If this had
been a receiver, there would be a loud hum.
 
snip
 
I will have to check the tubes too, but I dont have any
> tube tester yet. (I have one somewhere). [whatever happened to the good
> ol' drug store testers] :)
 
snip
 
There's one here: http://www.elliottelectronicsupply.com/ but it is
hidden by other things in the picture in "About Us". It's probably out
of your driving range too :)
 
 
 
 
 
--
Jim Mueller wrongname@nospam.com
 
To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.
Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 18 06:03PM -0800

Jim Mueller wrote:
 
 
> > transformer,
 
> Probably bad electrolytics, at least for the first guess. If this had
> been a receiver, there would be a loud hum.
 
** Please read the thread.
 
1. There is a baby size transformer that put out 250-0-250 with no load.
 
2. The AC voltage peaks are clipped under load so the peak value is about 270V.
 
3. There is a 6X5 rectifier that drops 50V off as well.
 
4. Then there is a 5000 ohms resistor before the filter electro that causes another a large voltage drop.
 
A voltage of 140V on the electro about right, the trick of being that it allows just one 16uF part to do the job.
 
 
..... Phil
Jim Mueller <wrongname@nospam.com>: Feb 19 12:01AM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 13:14:26 -0600, Foxs Mercantile wrote:
 
 
> Hot air gun.
> Heat it up until the wax runs, hold the tube and pull the guts out by
> the lead.
 
snip
 
You can also use a toaster oven at the lowest setting that will melt the
wax or use a heat lamp. I have used both methods successfully.
 
BTW Aerovox and Cornell Dubilier are both still in business:
http://www.aerovox.com/
http://www.cde.com/
 
Other old time names that are still with us include:
Illinois Capacitor http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/
Vishay http://www.vishay.com/. They have also acquired a number of other
old brands.
Bourns http://www.bourns.com/, who also acquired old brands.
Carling http://www.carlingtech.com/
E-T-A https://www.e-t-a.com
Eaton http://www.eaton.com/
Littelfuse http://www.littelfuse.com/
Amphenol http://www.amphenol.com/
Brim http//brimelectronics.com/
Keystone http://www.keyelco.com/
Molex http://www.molex.com/
Pomona http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/
Switchcraft http://www.switchcraft.com/
3M http://www.3m.com/
Vector https://www.vectorelect.com/
Mueller http://muellerelectric.com/
Grayhill http://www.grayhill.com/
Bliley http://www.bliley.com/
CTS http://www.ctscorp.com/
International Crystal http://www.icmfg.com/
Jan Crystals http://www.jancrystals.com/
Bud http://www.budind.com/
Davies Molding http://www.daviesmolding.com/
Premier Metal Product http://premiermetal.com/
Ohmite http://www.ohmite.com/
Triad http://www.triadmagnetics.com/
Stancor http://www.stancor.com/
Hoyt http://hoytmeter.com/
Simpson http://www.simpsonelectric.com/
Triplett http://www.triplett.com/
Dialight http://www.dialight.com/
Amperite http://www.amperite.com/
Coto Technology http://cotorelay.com/
Guardian http://www.guardian-electric.com/
EBY http://www.ebyelectro.com/
Daburn http://www.daburn.com/
Pico Electronics http://www.picoelectronics.com/
Staco http://www.stacoenergy.com/
Alpha Wire http://www.alphawire.com/
Belden http://www.belden.com/
 
I excluded companies whose names are still around but have obviously been
acquired by another company. It's possible that some of the ones I
listed have been merged but it isn't obvious from their web site. I'm
sure that there are more old timers than these but I only did a quick
search.
 
Another old time company, this time Japanese, but still around:
Calrad http://www.calrad.com/
 
--
Jim Mueller wrongname@nospam.com
 
To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 7 topics

tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>: Feb 18 01:47PM -0500

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 17:21:15 -0500, nospam wrote:
 
> they also refarmed their network so that aws is not required anymore.
 
Smoking some good stuff, eh? Clue: Amazon Web Services was never required.
 
Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 18 01:53PM -0500

In article <flzlm4pfb3is$.10u4v64wxkd0y.dlg@40tude.net>, tlvp
 
> > they also refarmed their network so that aws is not required anymore.
 
> Smoking some good stuff, eh? Clue: Amazon Web Services was never required.
 
clue: don't comment about things you don't understand.
 
clue#2: don't smoke whatever it is you're smoking.
tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>: Feb 18 02:05PM -0500

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 01:23:56 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong wrote:
 
> Since none of us are gonna run our own tests with three phones in our hands
> for weeks on end,
 
Right. No three phones, just two. And no tests "for weeks on end," just
casual observations. T-Mo vs. VZW:
 
* Most places in NE I check signal, they're both present and adequate.
* Some places I find T-Mo service utterly absent, but VZW strong enough to
* use (in some of those, at&t is accessible, but won't allow T-Mo roaming).
* Some places I was hoping to find VZW, that one's absent, but T-Mo is OK.
* Still other places neither is usably present.
 
Others' experiences are almost sure to differ. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>: Feb 18 02:08PM -0500

On 2017-02-17 23:36, tlvp wrote:
 
> A dual SIM phone, with both SIMs active, and using different carriers, not
> only *can*, it *must* :-) . 'Zat help? Cheers, -- tlvp
 
In that scenario, you really have 2 phones and each attaches itself to
only 1 antanna/radio.
 
Just because a phone can SEE signals from multiple antennas does not
mean that it has concurrent active communication to multiple antennas.
The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Feb 18 01:09PM -0800

On 02/17/2017 04:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>the paid version is rarely significantly better than the free version.
 
> Oh well. It's rather difficult to build a company based on a free
> product (unless one sells advertising).
 
Fine with me. Just how much can a person make from app-advertising?
 
> with the idea for several decades. Enjoy free while it lasts. I'm
> thinking more of a Kickstarter, Indiegogo, or other crowdfunding
> project.
 
And yet people do it...
 
--
Cheers, Bev
"My dad used to say: Laugh, and the whole world laughs with you.
Cry, and I'll give you something to cry about you little
bastard." -Jeff Goldblum
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 18 04:12PM -0500

In article <o8ad3c$8ru$1@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev
 
> > Oh well. It's rather difficult to build a company based on a free
> > product (unless one sells advertising).
 
> Fine with me. Just how much can a person make from app-advertising?
 
a lot.
 
<http://www.adweek.com/digital/googles-ad-revenue-hits-19-billion-even-m
obile-continues-pose-challenges-172722/>
During the second quarter of 2016, Alphabet's revenue hit $21.5
billion, a 21 percent year-over-year increase. Of that revenue, $19.1
billion came from Google's advertising business, up from $16 billion
a year ago.
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 09:14PM

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 17:12:20 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
 
> about 60 degrees. The tower can and does indicate which sector is
> being used, but that has a granularity of 120 degrees, which is hardly
> accurate enough to determine anyones position.
 
Hi Jeff,
 
This article describes the three 120-degree sectors:
Alpha is the North FACING vertical antenna on the cell tower
Beta is the Southeast FACING vertical antenna on the cell tower
Gamma is the Southwest FACING vertical antenna on the cell tower
http://www.evdoforums.com/thread15374.html
 
There is a way to tell which sector antenna you're connected to from the
cell id. Also, the newer Android APIs now seem to expose the frequency
bands:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/cellular_repeater_inside.shtml
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 09:14PM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 14:20:39 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
 
>> Here is a photo of one type in my house, called "CellSpot" and "LTE":
>> http://i.cubeupload.com/uNXXgZ.jpg
 
> that's the only LTE CellSpot I've seen. It has blinkenlights.
 
Thanks for confirming which one, because there is an entire thread on the
various very different "things" that T-Mobile MARKETING calls a "Personal
CellSpot" which they also call a "4G LTE CellSpot" such that saying those
words is rendered meaningless.
 
If someone says they have a CellSpot, or a "Personal CellSpot", all they're
definitively saying is that they have a micro tower, but there are multiple
types of similarly branded micro towers, each of which is quite different
in operation.
 
1. One type is a signal booster, which is purely cellular.
2. Another type is a microtower connected to your Internet router.
3. A third type is a router (I have not tested this type yet).
4. A fourth type is an access point (I haven't tested this either, yet).
5. And, while we're at it, there is WiFi calling (which isn't a "cellspot")
 
>> https://u.cubeupload.com/WoN2gQ.jpg
 
> Those are 4G LTE signal boosters which I've never seen before. They were
> not on offer from T-Mobile when I asked about a CellSpot for my home.
 
Yes, but my point is that they also are branded by T-Mobile MARKETING as a
"Personal CellSpot" and they all say "4G LTE".
 
The only difference in branding is in the final word *after* the
meaningless "CellSpot" brand name (and in the case of the one you have,
they don't even put a final word after the meaningless "CellSpot" brand
name).
 
 
 
>> Are you getting that from your T-Mobile micro tower?
>> How do you know? (Because that's the entire reason for this thread.)
 
> my iPhone displays the dB in the upper left corner. I's at -78 again.
 
I knew how you got the decibel RSSI (received signal strength indication),
but the question was how do you know which "tower" you're getting your
current signal from.
 
As far as anyone can tell, it's impossible to get the cell id tower from
the phone on an iOS device, so you have to use an Android device to figure
that out.
 
I have a similar setup to yours, except that I have at least three (and
maybe more) towers for my phone to choose from (two of which are inside my
own home).
 
So just having a decibel reading doesn't tell me *which* tower I'm
connected to (since there are at least three or more to choose from).
 
The good news is that my decibel readings are now in the -50dBm to -60dBm
range (instead of the minus 90 to minus 100 decibel range as they were
before I hooked up the micro towers!).
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 18 04:29PM -0500

In article <o8adfn$1c5u$5@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong
 
> I knew how you got the decibel RSSI (received signal strength indication),
> but the question was how do you know which "tower" you're getting your
> current signal from.
 
based on what you've written, no, you did not know that.
 
> As far as anyone can tell, it's impossible to get the cell id tower from
> the phone on an iOS device,
 
wrong.
 
> so you have to use an Android device to figure
> that out.
 
maybe you do, but the rest of the world doesn't, assuming they even
care what the tower id is.
 
everyone *other* than cellular engineers don't care, and the cellular
engineers have *far* more sophisticated equipment to find out than by
using an android or ios phone.
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 09:31PM

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 18:43:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
 
> My GSM phones show a valid lat-long. My CDMA phones show no data.
 
Hi Jeff,
I'm still trying to figure this stuff out, but I noticed this MIT app
(CellTracker) "attempts" to show both what the GPS says and the latitude
and longitude for Verizon.
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/images/Screenshot_2013-04-16-15-29-00
 
CellTracker:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/CellTracker
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 09:31PM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 03:23:29 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
 
 
> That's not the signal.
 
> That's decoding the data on it, and reading it. Then finding via GPS the
> exact location of the terminal, then calculating the direction of the tower.
 
This finding-where-the-tower is stuff is all new to me, but from what I've
been reading, it's impossible to do on an iPhone, and, the directional
pointer on OpenSignal is, at best, a wild-assed guess.
 
I'm still trying to figure all this out, but, it seems that OpenSignal is
likely a phony app that simply uses your cellular connection to *guess*
which cell tower you're connected to (based purely on your signal strength
and carrier).
 
The actual location of the tower is well known to be wrong, since it's
merely an average location of the *cell phones*!
 
Yup. They don't locate the tower.
They simply average the location of the cellphone locations!
 
Says so here:
"In OpenSignal ... the tower locations reported are not the actual
antenna coordinates but the average of coordinates where cell phones were
when they connected to that antenna"
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/cellular_repeater_inside.shtml
 
Here's a classic result of the OpenSignal inaccurate averaging algorithm:
http://people.csail.mit.edu/bkph/images/20111130072559.png
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 09:35PM

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 14:22:35 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
 
 
> No no, orange juice isn't from oranges! First you have to peel the
> orange, and then you have to squeeze it. It's not part of the orange!
 
> Whatever.
 
I had never used these apps before a couple of days ago, but now, after
using a dozen of these cellular reporting apps, I'd assess OpenSignal to be
almost non-functional compared to the apps that actually report correct
information.
 
As a "toy" app, OpenSignal is fine; but for correct and accurate
information, OpenSignal appears to be a veritable bust.
 
Still, it's one of the only related apps that my iOS device can run, so,
even a toy app such as OpenSignal appears to be (compared to, say, Network
Cell Info Lite) is better than nothing I guess.
Stijn De Jong <stijndekonlng@nlnet.nl>: Feb 18 10:00PM

The great news is that I've gotten my cellular signal up from around
-100dBm to consistently better than -60dBm, which is an astoundingly
astronomical improvement in signal strength!
 
For example, here is a reading, just now, of -53dBm on my cellphone:
http://i.cubeupload.com/GEYEzS.jpg
 
From what I've read, cellular signal doesn't get much better than that.
 
However, there is so much data that each of these apps output that I'm
still going through all the useful information to figure out exactly which
device is doing what (since I have an old micro tower and a new femto tower
in my house).
mogulah@hotmail.com: Feb 18 02:37PM -0800

On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:24:29 AM UTC-5, Lewis wrote:
 
> > That's decoding the data on it, and reading it. Then finding via GPS the
> > exact location of the terminal, then calculating the direction of the tower.
 
> No no, orange juice isn't from oranges!
 
Correct. Its from water, other molecules, elements and sunlight absorbed by the Orange Tree.
Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Feb 18 03:44PM -0500

In article <d2f86a4c-134a-4190-842d-ff71fe58f1b6@googlegroups.com>,
irdon13@gmail.com says...
 
> I was going to buy one of those cheap digital Oscilloscope kits off of eBay but was told to check with this group and ask if anyone has a old working used Analog Oscilloscope that they would donate to me so I could test the circuits I have been building . I really like tinkering and have learned a lot in the past 2 years and a Oscilloscope would be my next piece of test equipment , but a new one is out of
range for me but a used working old unit would be great for learning on . If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it . I Am disabled and working with electronics has opened a door for me that otherwise would leave me bored and doing nothing . I do not care if it is scratched or dented up as long as it is working , if anyone could help me contact me by phone at 1-772-200-0712 (I do not open e-mails for
fear of being hacked ) Thank you , Don Young ( looking forward to a reply and some help )
 
If you were close I would probably give you an old one, but the shipping
for them is more than the scope is worth.
 
Go to the arrl.org web site and look for the hamfests near you. That is
a big flea market for electronic gear. You might find a scope in your
price range.
 
There are some units that connect by USB to a computer for about $ 60
that you may want to look at.
Don Young <irdon13@gmail.com>: Feb 18 12:30PM -0800

I was going to buy one of those cheap digital Oscilloscope kits off of eBay but was told to check with this group and ask if anyone has a old working used Analog Oscilloscope that they would donate to me so I could test the circuits I have been building . I really like tinkering and have learned a lot in the past 2 years and a Oscilloscope would be my next piece of test equipment , but a new one is out of range for me but a used working old unit would be great for learning on . If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it . I Am disabled and working with electronics has opened a door for me that otherwise would leave me bored and doing nothing . I do not care if it is scratched or dented up as long as it is working , if anyone could help me , contact me at "FAKE NEWS" on You Tube (I do not open e-mails for fear of being hacked ) Thank you , Don Young ( looking forward to a reply and some help )
sam@repairfaq.org (Samuel M. Goldwasser): Feb 18 03:38PM -0500

> me at "FAKE NEWS" on You Tube (I do not open e-mails for fear of being
> hacked ) Thank you , Don Young ( looking forward to a reply and some
> help )
 
I hope this isn't too controversial. :)
 
I would recommend you get a guaranteed working Tek analog scope on
eBay, probably $100, $150 at most. The newer the better, but if it
is working when you get it, it will probably serve you long enough
to satisfy your needs.
 
DSOs are great once you have some familiarity with what to expect, but
can be very deceiving if you don't.
 
--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
 
Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
Don Young <irdon13@gmail.com>: Feb 18 12:16PM -0800

I was going to buy one of those cheap digital Oscilloscope kits off of eBay but was told to check with this group and ask if anyone has a old working used Analog Oscilloscope that they would donate to me so I could test the circuits I have been building . I really like tinkering and have learned a lot in the past 2 years and a Oscilloscope would be my next piece of test equipment , but a new one is out of range for me but a used working old unit would be great for learning on . If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it . I Am disabled and working with electronics has opened a door for me that otherwise would leave me bored and doing nothing . I do not care if it is scratched or dented up as long as it is working , if anyone could help me contact me by phone at 1-772-200-0712 (I do not open e-mails for fear of being hacked ) Thank you , Don Young ( looking forward to a reply and some help )
John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Feb 18 09:18AM -0800

> ugly words "made in China" on them.....
 
> Ah Hell, I'll replace them, but I know they wont go in the trash. Maybe
> there is some form of art that can be made from them....
 
What hard core old radio restorers do is remove the guts of old caps,
insert a new one, then melt beeswax on the ends to seal them in. They
then look like originals...
 
Of course it would be a REAL good idea to put a sticker inside the
device saying what was done in case someone runs into it in twenty years
and figures the thing was never recapped and rips out all the carefully
restored caps...
 
John :-#)#
 
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."
MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Feb 18 05:45PM

In article <lKydnb5ul89DHDXFnZ2dnUU7-dmdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
spam@flippers.com says...
> device saying what was done in case someone runs into it in twenty years
> and figures the thing was never recapped and rips out all the carefully
> restored caps...
 
Spoilsport!
 
Mike.
oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 18 12:58PM -0600

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 09:18:23 -0800, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
wrote:
 
 
>What hard core old radio restorers do is remove the guts of old caps,
>insert a new one, then melt beeswax on the ends to seal them in. They
>then look like originals...
 
That sounds like a lot of work, and I doubt I will do it. However, how
would someone remove the guts from an old cap like that? The only thing
I can think of would be to use a drill press, (at a very low speed). But
maybe there is a better way.
 
>and figures the thing was never recapped and rips out all the carefully
>restored caps...
 
>John :-#)#
 
Yea, that is probably a good idea....
 
--
 
One other thing, does anyone know if there is a place that sells the
pointers for test gear? I bet there is a need. That old plastic seems
to have failed, and mine is broke off. I'll buy a replacement if they
are available and not too costly. Otherwise I guess I'll have to make
one from plexiglass.... (And somehow paint a line on it).
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 18 01:14PM -0600

> However, how would someone remove the guts from an old cap
> like that?
 
Hot air gun.
Heat it up until the wax runs, hold the tube and pull the
guts out by the lead.
 
> Otherwise I guess I'll have to make
> one from plexiglass.... (And somehow paint a line on it).
 
Scribe a line on the back side. Use Testor's black model
paint. wipe up excess.
 
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 18 12:49PM -0600

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 10:33:47 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
 
>> BAMA has it in djvu format.
 
> Sadly, it is the same scan and resolution as the PDF file. It is
>typical of the quality of what Eico supplied with their kits
 
So you looked and saw the same thing. Thank You.
It seems that from what you said, the original was a lousy print job,
and I'm sure scanning it just made it worse. A few of them numbers look
like nothing but an ink blob. Those numbers should have been larger
right from the start. There is plenty of white space to have made them
larger.
 
Fortunately there are only 12 caps and 9 resistors. (The other part
numbers are not important and are obvious). The good thing is that it
seems that C3 is near C4, near C5 etc. I'm just redoing the (GIF
version) of the schematic using my paint software, and putting in bigger
numbers. When I finish, I will have a better schematic. And I am
checking each one against the actual circuit.
 
For those of you who work on a lot of this tube equipment, does it seem
that 140V B+ is low? It does to me, with 450V AC coming from the power
transformer, but it's been many years since I worked on this stuff. The
'lytic cap is not shorted according to my VOM. I checked that before I
plugged it in. I will have to check the tubes too, but I dont have any
tube tester yet. (I have one somewhere). [whatever happened to the good
ol' drug store testers] :)
 
At least there has not been any smoke!!!
 
I'll have to order all new caps as soon as I confirm the numbers are
correct. Just curious, what would you use for that filter cap "lytic?
The schematic says 16mf or over (weird). I'm thinking 20 to 30....
(I cant read the original, since it's numbers are not visible, and it's
in a spot making it hard to rotate without removal.
 
Either way, it feels good getting into a tube device again.....
Foxs Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 18 01:10PM -0600

> Just curious, what would you use for that filter cap "lytic?
> The schematic says 16mf or over (weird).
 
A 22 uF will work just fine.
 
--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com
bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Feb 18 10:31AM -0800

Allodaxaphobia wrote:
 
> CITE !
 
La Nación Apr 21, 2011 - "0.3% of Saharan Sun Enough To Power Europe" más que noticia es una cita histórica que data del año 2008.
-- http://blogs.lanacion.com.ar/ecologico/econoticias/un-dia-para-pensar-en-el-planeta/
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Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 2 topics

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Feb 18 10:33AM -0500

Tom Biasi wrote:
 
>> I intend to recap this thing, but first I need a useable schematic.
 
>> Thanks
 
> BAMA has it in djvu format.
 
 
Sadly, it is the same scan and resolution as the PDF file. It is
typical of the quality of what Eico supplied with their kits
 
 
--
Never piss off an Engineer!
 
They don't get mad.
 
They don't get even.
 
They go for over unity! ;-)
jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 17 07:47PM -0800


> 2,771,000,000,000 is the EU power consumption in KW, annually.
 
> Each square KM contains 1,000 x 1,000 square meters (1,000,000).
 
> Do the math. The amount of energy involved is staggering, but 3% is extremely conservative, as the actual number is a fraction of a single percent. 3% would be better defined as 'available energy with today's technology'.
 
Some people do not realize that people who can actually do the math ARE the cite.
 
In passing though you have described why we are still addicted to fossil fuel. Nothing else is as cheap. Per watt, per horsepower, per whatever, there is good reason we fight wars over it and piss off most of the world. There is good reason it is called black gold.
 
We have gotten much better at burning it. A modern car idling, which they do alot because of traffic congestion, you can almost just breathe the exhaust. Almost. Feel the exhaust from a modern car, it doesn't even burn your hand. Of ocurse on acceleration the efficiency goes to hell, but if you drive like a truck driver you know how to maximize your profit on every drop of fuel. Conserve energy and so forth. I know(n) truck drivers and they have a whole different way.
 
And the truck analogy fits quite well, take some solar panels and try to haul a 53 foot trailer full of steel. You might do it at 20 MPH but the boss and the customer will not like that at all. And if it is perishable produce, all the much worse. Then you got reefer units running 24/7 and the longer you take to get there the more fuel they use. They ised to have red dyed fuel that did not have road use taxes built in for reefers etc. but from what I hear these days is is damn hard to find. It might be different in like Texas where drivig across the state is a carreer, but up here I have never seen it.
 
The real future is in reusing all this shit. We produce and produce, and it all goes in a landfill. We are getting to the point where maybe it won't be necessary to build a new smartphone every six months because eventually software updates will keep the yuppies and millenials happy enough. Then they get replaced when such people bring them to my Man cave and after it rings three times I shoot it. Actually the threat is enough to make them go put the dammn thing in their car, I used to just get a bucket of water and threaten to drown the MF, but now they float ! I do have yet to see one with a bulletproof vest.
 
See, when you come to my cave the idea is we are together and there is no hanging up, signiong out or whatever and we can have a real argument. Almost always civil, only a few times has it gotten out of hand. But IF, and that is a big IF, I decide to play media, and that means a clip or a song or anything, it runs and STFU. Unlike many people (whom I can't stand) I do not run background music or anything. There is the piece, and then there is peace.
 
Anyway, off I am again on a tangent. So to the point of the OP.
 
countries like China, Hong Kong and whoever DESERVE to be a dumping ground, they got our money. They had no problem taking that money witht he government subsidising their labor and flooding our market with product we could never undersell and have a decent standard of living. And it costs almost nothing to ship shit here, but try to ship something there. the coists are staggering, and these politicians call that free trade ? Well it migth be free but it certainly is not fair.
 
Every scvhooled Keynsian and other ones who have gotten this country into this mess shun isolationism, and at one time so did I. But after working on alll kinds of things over the years I have changed my mind. And in fucking spades people, I mean I even include people.
 
To avoid being called racist, Trump should stop ALL immigration to the US. that means H1B visas as well, if you can find someojhe here to do it, then we can't do it. Stiff tariffs, stiff enough to fuck with the bottom line of these importers.
 
You know I was born in the morning but not this morning. I used to read magazines and in said magazines was touted the biggest opportunity you'll ever know. Imports. You know you can buy this piece of junk for $2.99 and sell it for "$12.99 ? What is that, a 400 % profit ? And people at it up. I didn't get into it because I saw all the shit they had for sale as junk. I could not really sell what I would not buy. Perhaps that is one of my shortcomings. If not, it is a virtue that will never pay off.
 
But really what I saw was stupid little toys like stuffed animals and such, and these were to be marketed to adults ? Well I know about the beanie baby craze and I swear I still think that eBay, which was established to trade those toys, got named because someone developing the site had a kid and the kid couldn't talk and said "EBAY" trying to say beanie baby. Total speculation on my part but highly plausible.
 
The other problem is I learned too late to sell that which is useless. Let's just use the beanie baby thing as an example. Some of them go for big money buy people have to have them, or did when they were in vogue. They would buy them by the shelf full. Seriously, they might have 100 of these useless pieces of shit, but now think, how many refrigerators do they have ? We have two refrigerators and two deep freezes and we use them to save money on food, in fact I just found an old Polish butchery that has beef tenderooins for $13 a pound. you can't even buy those in the supermarkets anymore around here.
 
But people will buy toys like they're going out of style, like Jay Leno buys cars. But at least I think he knows what he is getting, and could drop into most of them and drive down the street. All a beanie baby is good for is for your kid to piss on. That kills the collaector value, and the thing has NO other value. but people will buy them ad infinitum. I know a guy, a hard worker who does alright and takes care of his family, but his ditzy olady literallly has ten grand worth of those pieces of shit. I would have put my foot down about that but he doesn't have it in him, plus he likes some sort of harmony having kids and all. but those thousands of dollars might come in handy if work gets slow, and the dumb bitch gave that no thought as she whipped out the credit card HE PAYS. She doesn't work at all.
 
I have had two friends come to me with prospects, one off the wall one but almost viable was the perpetual generator. Of course they are not, they use a few tricks to actually drain high powered permanent magnets and generate electricity. It is no more magic nor against the laws of physics than a dryt cell battery. however, for the useful life and generating capacity they are completely useless. Let me run you the numbers - the unit will power your house for about seven years. It costs nearly a million dollars to build. Now divied your electric bill into 84 months and see what you get, and then divide the cost of this unit into those same months and you can see why they didn't even bother to patent them.
 
Like everything else, noting beats those old dinosaurs. Then there are the electric car people and I have personal experience with them as well. Well I had their generator on my bench and found that to make the bubbbles, and the guy had the wrong design because it gave out H and O2 at the same time instead of separating them which made the whole thing extremely dangerous, at least for in the house, I measured the wattage required to separate this water and it was substantial. I d onot remember the exact figures but I think it was pulloing like 14 amps at like eight volts. that was on a small battery charger, I was not confortable with hooking up my big power supply in the house, which wil do like 120 VDC at about 6 amps. Probaby would have blown the place up.
 
Generally, liberals with no basic math skills think we can just jump into being totaly green. All buy $80,000 new electric cars and all this shit. The problem with them, which is what got Trump elected (god damn) is that their plans simply do not work. We need to get down and dirty like China, we need to take back those blue collar jobs, even if they are not the best jobs in the world. They reduce imports and increase exports.
 
And numbers lie. unemployment is 5 % ? My ass, we only got 100 million or so who even file taxes and out of them a bunch get EIC n shit and get back more than they paid in. Over twqo thirds of the people on this country are disabled, too old or young to work ? I find that hard to believe. But the number spinsters have a solution for that now, there are about a half dozen figures for unemployment, M5, M2 and whatnot IIRC. All a bunch of bullshit. When you got people with college degrees applying for entry level jobs flipping burger there is something wrong.
 
In the past, when someone got out of college, there was no online resume' and all that, and fresh out of school, realists thought that their dream jhob might not just come around today, so they took stopgap jobs to simply pay bills and gasoline, whatever. When they had a masters degree but just needed money they would apply to McDonalds but leave out their degree because with that on their applicatiuon they would not get hired because they were "overqualified". remember those days ?
 
Sorry to seem so off track here but really, what I am describing is one of the very big reasons that we do not have the innovators we used to have. What's more, since the business system seems to be working for business, they are not supporting innovators.
 
What I see in the future ? I see Trump fucking some things up, but I also see that he wants that innovation back. We could not put a Man on the moon today, we can't even get up to our satellites without buying rockets from Russia. Ours blow up. And this is progress ?
 
And this has nothing to do with political afffiliation, both parties fucked this place up. the main problem is we keep electing people who never worked a fucking day int heir lives, but then those are the only candidates running.
 
Go ahead and say I got too political, but realize I have expounded on WHY this problem will not be solved anytime soon. They have alot of money in the staus quo, and they ain't done milking it.
 
And that is another reason we need oil. Dead dinosaurs. Black gold. Texas tea. In fact, the US dollar is so dependent upon other countries using it as an echange medium (ad we start wars to keep that going) that I would say that we pretty much traded the gold standard for the oil standard.
 
Now Trump is going for these pipelines, but that is nothing new. When I was youyng my Father worked on components for a pipeline. However I believe, to appease others like that tribe, he should imposde HUGE (yuge ? lol) fines for any leak. Like a million dollars per gallon. Tell them skinflints not to make the pipes out of paper mache' or whatever they're using.
 
But we do need cheap oil to even start any economy back up. Liberals seem to think that enough ads will do it, if they sell enough, but we don't make anything to fucking sell ! Go try to buy American, closest you get is Maxico, and some cars made in Canada.
 
Try to buy USian. You can't. You can buy wheat, and that is touted as our export, that we export more food than we import, but try to live on wheat. You want bananas and apples and most other things they are imported, maybe half of them.
 
By tonnage we export more, but not by value. Wheat is a raw resource used to make breads and cakes n shit. You cannot live on it. Try.
 
Unfortuinately, in my analysis, soemone in another country is going to be the innovator in the next level of energy production. What's more, when I was young I never studied about the bios of the onnovators in the US. Later I did and found that many of them were off the boat or second generation. I figure, since they were ot stupid, that they came here for the favorable intellectual property laws, if not for the vast market which would get them rich fast eough not to worry about patents and such. But those fierce laws are nearly inpossible to enforce with an open market, this free trade both sides of the politicians sold us. It is a bad deal and that is that. And look at other countries. Ship this electronic part to Norway for me, why is it that this used part that weighs nothing and it not really fragile costs $70 to ship there but when I bought a harddrive it goe shipped altogewther for $52 and was at my door the same month in which it was manufactuerd.
 
Does this sound like fair trade to you ?
 
I did not reach this conclusion lightly, and I know what we lose and it is alot. But the only thing that can get this country back up on its feet is protectionism. We have to learn to be self sufficient again.
 
Exporting new energy producing gizmos that we invent and make money off of would be grteat, but no big money will go into that because they don't see an emd to the dead dinosaurs.
 
Sorry to be so long.
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