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arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com>: Dec 31 02:04PM On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 00:51:41 -0600, GlowingBlueMist wrote:   > If you don't have an old style phone you can get them at many retail > stores for less than $8.00 or possibly even cheaper at a charity store.   Update:   The *82*96-1-408-123-4567 is working well, so far.   I'll report back of the *96 starts blurbling.   If so, I think I'll change phones to whatever Jeff may recommend that is available in a local Santa Cruz or San Jose Costco.

dave <dave@nowhere.co>: Jan 01 02:00AM +1300 Happy New Year everyone

fynnashba@gmail.com: Dec 31 01:48AM -0800 On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 8:36:30 PM UTC+1, petrus bitbyter wrote: > required. Another thing is the type of the motor involved. The type should > be on a plate on the motor. Best of all would be the datasheet of the motor.   > petrua bitbyter   Yes, as Petrus said you have to state the voltage and the type. Most of them are BLDCM so you cant use ordinary DC.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>: Dec 30 11:54PM -0800 On 12/28/2018 7:22 AM, rbowman wrote:   > you're good to go. I just bought a 7" B&N Nook for $50. It's no > powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but > they're not there yet.   True, it's much more efficient to develop specialized, non-consumer apps, on Android, as well as being easier to deploy them. Apple is solely consumer-electronics focused, with little interest in supporting niche markets.   There are other advantages to developing for Android as well, including much more complete support for industry standards like Bluetooth and NMEA. I don't think that the cost of buying a Mac, when developing an iOS app, is really an issue. You can just buy a used Mac Mini for a couple of hundred dollars. But deploying an iOS app to a niche market is more of an issue.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 31 03:18AM -0500 In article <q0ci0c$agp$1@dont-email.me>, sms > apps, on Android, as well as being easier to deploy them. Apple is > solely consumer-electronics focused, with little interest in supporting > niche markets.   completely false.   developing and deploying for ios is a lot easier than android, regardless of what type of app it is, largely because of the zillions of devices needed to support and test, and apple is *not* solely consumer focused in the least.   > There are other advantages to developing for Android as well, including > much more complete support for industry standards like Bluetooth and > NMEA.   more bs. apple was first to support bluetooth le on a mobile device.   > iOS app, is really an issue. You can just buy a used Mac Mini for a > couple of hundred dollars. But deploying an iOS app to a niche market is > more of an issue.   nonsense. niche markets can be very lucrative, and because of that can easily justify much more than a used mac for development.

fynnashba@gmail.com: Dec 30 05:56PM -0800 Please i am looking for the output voltage of the control power transformer for this model of Kitchenaid free standing range-KERA807. The transformer has 7 leads at the secondary side (output). The colors are; Red-Red, Blue-Blue, Yellow-Yellow-Yellow. Thank you.

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rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Dec 29 01:06PM -0700 On 12/28/2018 08:43 PM, nospam wrote: >> that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could >> meet TEMPEST requirements.   > the cube was a *long* time ago.   Yes, it was. 1985, iirc. My end of the project involved the TI TMS9900 microprocessor. It had little going for it other than being one of the few radiation hardened devices at the time. The Macs were used for documentation and as I said were selected because they meant TEMPEST specifications.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29   The Russkies were squatting out in the bushes, dontcha know. It's always the Russians. I doubt if they bothered to skulk around our bushes.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985:_The_Year_of_the_Spy   > there's nothing wrong with focusing on consumer products. it's a *huge* > and *very* lucrative market, although apple is not solely consumer > focused.   Certainly there's nothing wrong with consumer products. I've never worked in that sector, and hence have never been involved with Apple products. iPhones and iPads have started making some inroads as information delivery devices in my world. However the focus has been more on ruggedized devices, be they laptops or tablets.   https://www.fieldtechnologiesonline.com/doc/the-ipad-vs-the-rugged-tablet-whats-what-0001   That is not a market Apple addresses and being a walled garden no third party can do so. End of the World Industries can make an Android tablet that will survive, but it better not start with 'i'.   That said, personal devices are penetrating the workspace and if some cop prefers to use an iPhone we've got to deal with it. Sometime. It won't be me personally.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 29 05:06PM -0500 In article <g8q2c0F78d6U1@mid.individual.net>, rbowman > >> meet TEMPEST requirements.   > > the cube was a *long* time ago.   > Yes, it was. 1985, iirc.   no it wasn't.   the cube was 2000-2001: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube>   it was a tip of the hat to steve jobs' original next cube, which was announced in 1989 and shipped in 1990: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTcube>   in 1985, only the mac 128k and 512k existed, with the 512k/e in late 1985. the mac plus was released in january, 1986.     > Certainly there's nothing wrong with consumer products. I've never > worked in that sector, and hence have never been involved with Apple > products.   apple does more than just consumer, although that is definitely where they're strongest.   > iPhones and iPads have started making some inroads as > information delivery devices in my world. However the focus has been > more on ruggedized devices, be they laptops or tablets.   there's more to an iphone and ipad than information delivery.     > That is not a market Apple addresses and being a walled garden no third > party can do so. End of the World Industries can make an Android tablet > that will survive, but it better not start with 'i'.   nonsense.   there are numerous ruggedized cases for iphones and ipads, with otterbox being the most well known. they're bulky, but they do withstand a *lot* of abuse. there is also no walled garden, a myth that will never die.   here's one with a keyboard: <https://www.zagg.com/eu/en_eu/keyboards/rugged-book-keyboard-case>   here's a screen protector that withstands hammering: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsxl1bRTldo> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtMn79-hr9E>   and there's even a bulletproof case: <http://www.marudai-corp.com/iphone-case/e-info-product.html>   > That said, personal devices are penetrating the workspace and if some > cop prefers to use an iPhone we've got to deal with it. Sometime. It > won't be me personally.   your loss.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Dec 29 03:54PM -0700 On 12/29/2018 03:06 PM, nospam wrote:   > no it wasn't.   > the cube was 2000-2001: > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube>   Excuse me. Not being an Apple user I'm not familiar with the pet terms.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K   To my eyes it looked like a cube.   > in 1985, only the mac 128k and 512k existed, with the 512k/e in late > 1985. the mac plus was released in january, 1986.   Precisely. The rather cubical looking Mac...   > there's more to an iphone and ipad than information delivery.   Yes there is. However all we are concerned with is delivering updated incident or dispatch information to emergency responders. If they want to play Angry Birds in their spare time, good for them.     > otterbox being the most well known. they're bulky, but they do > withstand a *lot* of abuse. there is also no walled garden, a myth that > will never die.   Obviously you didn't read the link. An iPad in an otterbox is NOT a ruggedized tablet.   https://gizmodo.com/should-the-supreme-court-knock-the-first-brick-out-of-a-1830569176   You're right. The walled garden is the myth that will never die. The strategy has worked well for Apple so don't try to deny it.   > your loss.   Not in the least.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 30 12:10AM -0500 In article <g8qc7aF9aqpU1@mid.individual.net>, rbowman   > > the cube was 2000-2001: > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube>   > Excuse me. Not being an Apple user I'm not familiar with the pet terms.   it's not a pet term. it was called a cube because it was actually a cube.   it did have an acrylic casing to raise it off the table for cable management, however.   it was also designed to *easily* be opened without any tools. flip it over, push in the handle to pop it out, then lift, giving full access to the internals, the very opposite of a 'walled garden'.   <https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Pw6YRIHwmiDYUWTX.large> <https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2STkBEy42mB2okjN.large> <https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/AuJkNVuB3RH4NjKl.large>   > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K   > To my eyes it looked like a cube.   then your eyes need to be checked, along with a refresher on geometry.   > > in 1985, only the mac 128k and 512k existed, with the 512k/e in late > > 1985. the mac plus was released in january, 1986.   > Precisely. The rather cubical looking Mac...   it did not look like a cube: <http://photos2.insidercdn.com/1125-128kmac-2.jpg>     > Yes there is. However all we are concerned with is delivering updated > incident or dispatch information to emergency responders. If they want > to play Angry Birds in their spare time, good for them.   angry birds is passe. even pokemon go is mostly passe. fortnite is where it's at now.   > > withstand a *lot* of abuse. there is also no walled garden, a myth that > > will never die.   > Obviously you didn't read the link.   i did and it's bullshit.   rugged means able to withstand extreme conditions and abuse.   rugged does *not* mean encryption, tco and compatibility, what the article discusses.   all ios devices are fully encrypted, can be remote wiped if necessary and centrally managed for large (or not so large) deployment, so that is not an issue.   the article speculates that an ipad would overall cost more despite having a lower initial cost due to frequent failures, however, they offer with zero evidence to support that. it also incorrectly assumes that by the time an app is released, a newer incompatible ipad would be released, which is also wrong.   the article was surprised that american airlines would choose ipads for the cockpit, something other airlines have also done since the article was written, due to their reliability and lower cost versus managing the paper it replaces. that alone contradicts the article's claims.   it's also a 6 year old article which is even more incorrect now than it was when written.   > An iPad in an otterbox is NOT a > ruggedized tablet.   yes it is. rugged means it's able to withstand extremes and abuse, which is already pretty good but with an otterbox even more so.   it does not mean encryption, tco or app compatibility.   > 30569176   > You're right. The walled garden is the myth that will never die. The > strategy has worked well for Apple so don't try to deny it.   that's not a walled garden, especially since the app store not the only way to install apps.   nothing prevents anyone from writing their own custom ios apps for whatever purpose or hiring someone to do so if they lack the skills.   there is no requirement to use the app store (which i explained in another post). there are a *lot* of custom corporate apps on ios that never see the app store.   and let's not forget windows 10s, which *only* runs apps from the microsoft app store, making *it* the walled garden, not apple.   game consoles also have very limited options for titles, also walled.   having an app store with vetted apps is not inherently bad. it greatly reduces the amount of malware and other crap that people install, rending a system unstable and/or not secure.   the malware vectors where one can pwn a windows system do not exist on ios.   nothing is perfect and something could potentially slip through the cracks, but if it does, it's quickly removed from the store. in extreme cases, it can be uninstalled, something google has had to do on several occasions, while apple has not.   in other words, ios software is 'rugged'.

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Dec 29 10:41AM -0800 On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 21:52:56 +0000 (UTC), arlen holder   >Ooma tells me speed & jitter are ok but I have 0.25% packet loss.   That's actually very good, especially with an RF link. Interference from co-channel users usually produces some packet loss. Try a continuous ping test to your WISP's router or access point (so that you're only testing the wireless path). For Windoze, something like: ping -t ip_address_of_WISP Look for missing packets and longer delays, which are a sign of retransmissions, usually due to interference or collisions. For more accuracy, try Fping: <http://blog.perceptus.ca/2017/11/10/fping-windows-download-the-last-version/>   The "PureVoice" feature may also be involved: <https://www.voip-info.org/ooma-telo/> To combat the packet loss that some VoIP users experience as garbled or interrupted voice signals, Ooma Telo's PureVoice HD also incorporates adaptive redundancy — the Ooma Telo VoIP home phone system detects packet loss and issues duplicate packets to cover the gap.   >What happens, as a result, is that in any given phone call, the voice >drops, or is blurbled, for seconds at a time.   That can be packet loss, but my guess(tm) is that it's jitter or packets lots in the Asterisk switch.   >I don't quite understand how losing one packet in 400 on average is causing >that, but they said take it up with the WISP who has already said it's as >good as he can make it.   It's not. Ooma does not tell you the end to end (POTS to your phone) packet loss. It only displays the packet loss between their servers and your Omma device. It does not show anything happening between the POTS line and the Omma servers, which can product garble, without showing any packet loss.   >Ooma suggested a new cordless phone set.   You old and new cordless phone does not do packetized data and therefore would not affect the packet loss. However, if the RF link in the cordless phone is defective or there is interference on the cordless phone frequency, then you would get garble from the cordless phone. Try testing the cordless phone at some other location with a POTS line, or temporarily replacing the cordless phone with a wired POTS phone.   >you're happy with? The base MUST be a full phone (speaker + dialer + wired >handset) with as many cordless as is feasible (usually 2 to 4 come with the >set).   I would say something about the included wireless handset that comes with some Ooma base units, but since you didn't see fit to provide the model you're using, I won't bother.   >Ooma tells me packet loss should be 0% ... do you have a good test for >that? (Ooma didn't have a test we could run.)   Google for "voip test" and you should find a variety of likely test sites. Try to find one that uses the same backhaul as your WISP or ask your WISP which VoIP test site they recommend. For example: <https://www.onsip.com/blog/what-your-voip-test-results-mean> <https://sourceforge.net/speedtest/?source=voip-info> <https://www.voipreview.org/speedtest> You'll also find a jitter test, which might be useful.   Play with the codec selection on your Ooma phone. <https://support.ooma.com/home/star-codes-on-your-ooma-device/> Try iLBC (default) and G.711.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Dec 29 10:56AM -0800 On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 10:41:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:   ><https://sourceforge.net/speedtest/?source=voip-info> ><https://www.voipreview.org/speedtest> >You'll also find a jitter test, which might be useful.   I forgot that Ooma has a speed test. It shows jitter, but not packet loss: <http://ooma.speedtestcustom.com>   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

arlen holder <arlen@holder.com>: Dec 29 10:33PM On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 10:41:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:   > That's actually very good, especially with an RF link.   Hi Jeff, Thanks for your advice, as I'm also in the Santa Cruz mountains (other side of the hill from you) where WISP is the only thing in town (although Comcast threatens to bring up cable some day, which would put the small-guy WISPs like Dave & Brett at Surfnet, Loren at Hilltop, Mike at Ridge, and Bob at Etheric out of business in a heartbeat - all of whom I presume you know well).   I'm on 5GHz with a 30dBi Rocketdish with a straight shot, mountain to mountain, of about 25 miles by road, but only a couple of miles (maybe two and a half to three miles?) air-to-air (which is what counts).   The Ooma technical folks ran a probe, after trying to talk me into hooking the "modem" (I never tell them it's a transceiver because that just confuses them) directly to the Ooma box, where my Ooma box is hanging off the router.   The telephone base is hanging off the Ooma box, and then I use hand helds around the house. The problem is mostly on the handhelds, but I can't imagine that they're causing the 0.25% packet loss that Ooma tech support measured.   > continuous ping test to your WISP's router or access point (so that > you're only testing the wireless path). For Windoze, something like: > ping -t ip_address_of_WISP   This is a good idea. I need to log it though, so I'm running a ping -t to an internal hop that I found using a tracert.   Is something like that what you are suggesting? C:\> ping -t WISP_AP_IP >> ping.log   > retransmissions, usually due to interference or collisions. For more > accuracy, try Fping: > <http://blog.perceptus.ca/2017/11/10/fping-windows-download-the-last-version/>   I'll check that out, as if I find missing packets, that would explain where the problem lies.   > HD also incorporates adaptive redundancy — the Ooma Telo VoIP > home phone system detects packet loss and issues duplicate > packets to cover the gap.   Hmmmmm.... I'm not sure if I can tell that is kicking in or not, nor what to do about it if it does kick in.   > That can be packet loss, but my guess(tm) is that it's jitter or > packets lots in the Asterisk switch.   I'm not sure what an "Asterisk" switch is, where googling, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk_(PBX)> "Asterisk supports several standard voice over IP protocols". I guess it's part of the VOIP protocol that Ooma Telo uses...?   > and your Omma device. It does not show anything happening between the > POTS line and the Omma servers, which can product garble, without > showing any packet loss.   It happens on almost all calls, so, I'd "think" it's on my side. (But that's why I ask for debugging help.)   > phone. Try testing the cordless phone at some other location with a > POTS line, or temporarily replacing the cordless phone with a wired > POTS phone.   It _does_ seem to be better (less garbled) when I use the wired handset which is directly connected to the Ooma device. That diagnostic, alone, might indicate it's the phones.   But do older (maybe 5 to 10 years?) Panasonic Costco phones cause garbling in and of themselves? And even so, as you said, they wouldn't cause 0.25% packet loss (they said the jitter was only 1ms where 20ms would be a problem, as I recall).   > I would say something about the included wireless handset that comes > with some Ooma base units, but since you didn't see fit to provide the > model you're using, I won't bother.   My bad. I apologize.   It's a Panasonic KXTG6671 base plus a few Panasonic PNLC1017 cordless charger units spread about the home. It was a Costco thing, which, in reality, I never did like so I'm looking for an excuse to replace it.   > <https://sourceforge.net/speedtest/?source=voip-info> > <https://www.voipreview.org/speedtest> > You'll also find a jitter test, which might be useful.   Looking at your next post, I first tried this: <http://ooma.speedtestcustom.com>   Which reported 3ms jitter, which was more than Ooma had reported <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3773901ooma01.jpg>   Pressing the "Again" button reported a 15ms jitter, which is huge <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4418379ooma02.jpg>   And, one more time, in sequence, gave me a 2 ms jitter: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4255229ooma03.jpg>   Go figure. The 2ms is ok, but the 15 ms is at the limit, or nearly so.   I also tried this nice suggestion of yours... <https://www.onsip.com/blog/what-your-voip-test-results-mean> Which seemed, by the GUI, to be EXACTLY the same as the Ooma test, only, for some odd reason, it picked New York to test against, where it came up with a 4ms jitter, even as it went across the country: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8371168ooma04.jpg>   The second in the sequence came up with 4ms jitter: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2265190ooma05.jpg>   And yet, the third, came up whoppingly high with 98ms jitter! <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8194174ooma06.jpg>   How is _that_ for lack of consistency!   The Sourceforge site says it's "designed to test your current Internet connection speed for Latency/Ping, Jitter, Download Speed, Upload Speed, Buffer Bloat, and Packet Loss", which seems like a good test for me! <https://sourceforge.net/speedtest/?source=voip-info> Wow, those are detailed results, where the jitter was 4ms and the packet loss was a whoppingly high 4% as shown in the screenshot below. <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3699166ooma07.jpg> Surprisingly, even with a 4% packet loss, the quality metric was 4.1 out of 5, which seems higher than it should be with such high packet losses: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9173143ooma08.jpg> And, just as surprisingly, they gave VOIP a checkmark in the summary: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2095808ooma09.jpg>   Looking at that last suggestion, it seems to be an EXACT copy of the Sourceforge site where it came up with 4ms jitter & 0% packet loss: <https://www.voipreview.org/speedtest> But this doesn't show the same level of detail as did Sourceforge: <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2921509ooma10.jpg>   > Play with the codec selection on your Ooma phone. > <https://support.ooma.com/home/star-codes-on-your-ooma-device/> > Try iLBC (default) and G.711. Hey Jeff! Now that's interesting. Very interesting.   I normally do a "*82" or a "*67" but I didn't know about the others. The first thing I tried was "*#*#001" which reported "240828". Kewl.   Then I made a phone call using: *82*96-1-408-123-4567 which had decent call quality. I'll keep doing this "*96" stuff, which might be the cat's meow. Thanks.

Rene Lamontagne <rlamont@shaw.ca>: Dec 29 05:11PM -0600 On 12/29/2018 4:58 PM, arlen holder wrote: > Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: > Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 2141ms, Average = 19ms > Control-C   Trimmed all your shit, Ya dumb Prick

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arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com>: Dec 28 09:52PM Ooma tells me speed & jitter are ok but I have 0.25% packet loss.   What happens, as a result, is that in any given phone call, the voice drops, or is blurbled, for seconds at a time.   I don't quite understand how losing one packet in 400 on average is causing that, but they said take it up with the WISP who has already said it's as good as he can make it.   Ooma suggested a new cordless phone set. Is there a cordless phone set you're happy with? The base MUST be a full phone (speaker + dialer + wired handset) with as many cordless as is feasible (usually 2 to 4 come with the set).   Ooma tells me packet loss should be 0% ... do you have a good test for that? (Ooma didn't have a test we could run.)

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Dec 29 05:09AM -0800 On Friday, December 28, 2018 at 4:53:01 PM UTC-5, arlen holder wrote: > set).   > Ooma tells me packet loss should be 0% ... do you have a good test for > that? (Ooma didn't have a test we could run.)   God help us, its a PHONE! All that is necessary is to be able to understand the occasional actual caller. Any given Panasonic/AT&T/Samsung cordless set will do the trick with neither agony nor anxiety attached. Should be in the $30 - $50 range for a system with, perhaps, three or four remote sets with it. Just pick an open frequency when you set up. The typical phone has 16 options. Some more.   Sheesh!   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Dec 28 07:51PM -0800 Look165 wrote:     > One works with electromagnetic force, the other works with piezoelectric > force.   > The first is low impedance and good for low frequencies,     ** The two facts are not related.     > The other is high impedance and good for high frequencies, it uses voltage.   ** See above.     > With a typical 8-Ohm or 32-Ohm output, the crystal headphone is useless.   ** Utter nonsense.   In the 1960s, transistor radios and came supplied with crystal earpieces.     .... Phil

rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Dec 28 07:18PM -0700 On 12/28/2018 08:42 AM, nospam wrote: > you're asking the wrong people. there's a *huge* demand for apple > development and it pays *quite* well.   I'm sure it does if you're in the right field, but the world I live in doesn't do Apple. If we do something for iPhones it is only as peripherals. There may be emergency dispatch centers that run on os x but I don't know of any. Generally the RFQ's spec Windows Server, SQL Server, ESRI, and so forth. Even ESRI is a killer; ArcDesktop can run on a Mac -- sort of. Fire up Boot Camp or VMWare and run Windows.   I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could meet TEMPEST requirements.   I'm sure you will reel of all sorts of counter examples but I've always associated Apple with consumer oriented devices and software and that's not been my meal ticket.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Dec 28 07:25PM -0700 On 12/28/2018 08:42 AM, nospam wrote: > not at all. write a decent app and you'll recover any costs many times > over. there's nothing to deal with the app store either. when the app > is done, submit it.   Therein lies the rub in our business model. We're doing proprietary applications for a very limited audience and the app store is not the way to go.       > xcode is free and pick up a cheap iphone for testing. done. and if > you're *that* cheap (and not interested in quality of work), use the > simulator and let your beta testers test on actual hardware.   Ah, yes, the simulator... Snore...   >> powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but >> they're not there yet. > a b&n nook is in no way comparable to an iphone or ipad.   I never said it was. However it is an Android device that I can side load an apk on.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 28 10:43PM -0500 In article <g8o45vForqhU1@mid.individual.net>, rbowman   > Therein lies the rub in our business model. We're doing proprietary > applications for a very limited audience and the app store is not the > way to go.   you didn't mention proprietary apps, however, there are alternative methods for app deployment that do *not* involve the app store at all for exactly that scenario. the app store is not the only option.   > > you're *that* cheap (and not interested in quality of work), use the > > simulator and let your beta testers test on actual hardware.   > Ah, yes, the simulator... Snore...   you've never used it, so you're not in a position to comment.   it was simply a suggestion for those who *really* want to cheap out.   > >> they're not there yet. > > a b&n nook is in no way comparable to an iphone or ipad.   > I never said it was.   yet you compared its price to an iphone or ipad.   the reason it's $50 is because its specs are lower.   > However it is an Android device that I can side > load an apk on.   that would depend on what the apk does. if it needs functionality not found in a $50 device, you're going to have problems.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 28 10:43PM -0500 In article <g8o3ouFopeqU1@mid.individual.net>, rbowman   > I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in > that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could > meet TEMPEST requirements.   the cube was a *long* time ago.   > I'm sure you will reel of all sorts of counter examples but I've always > associated Apple with consumer oriented devices and software and that's > not been my meal ticket.   there's nothing wrong with focusing on consumer products. it's a *huge* and *very* lucrative market, although apple is not solely consumer focused.

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sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>: Dec 27 09:10AM -0800 On 12/26/2018 7:03 PM, arlen holder wrote: > On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:30:14 -0500, nospam wrote:   >> nonsense. not only are there equivalents, there are even better options.   > Please just name one (link) if that's the case.   LOL, you often see inquiries for an iOS app with all the functionality of Torque Pro. Unfortunately there's no such animal. I don't know why the author doesn't port it to iOS with the appropriate caveats regarding which OBD-II dongles will work with the iOS version (you can use Wi-Fi dongles or BLE dongles, which are six times as expensive, but still not outrageously priced).   https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/engine-link-obd-ii-vehicle/id591557194?mt=8 is rated 2.4 out of 5. They do explain that only certain types of OBD-II dongles will work.   https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en_US is rated 4.5 out of 5. It just has a lot more functionality.   Still puzzled as to why the Bluetooth SPP profile was left out of iOS. No one has ever had a good answer to that.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 27 12:27PM -0500 In article <q03127$qp3$1@dont-email.me>, sms   > > Please just name one (link) if that's the case.   > LOL, you often see inquiries for an iOS app with all the functionality > of Torque Pro. Unfortunately there's no such animal.   no, you don't 'often see inquiries' and there definitely are such apps on ios.   > I don't know why > the author doesn't port it to iOS   because he doesn't have the resources and/or skills to develop and support two apps on two different platforms. or, he's simply not interested.   > which OBD-II dongles will work with the iOS version (you can use Wi-Fi > dongles or BLE dongles, which are six times as expensive, but still not > outrageously priced).   nonsense.   they're about the same price, maybe a couple of bucks more for a bluetooth le version, which is also much easier to set up and use than bluetooth classic.   the wifi adapters are more expensive, however, they are intended for use with something that doesn't have bluetooth, such as most windows laptops (all mac laptops have bluetooth le and classic).   > Still puzzled as to why the Bluetooth SPP profile was left out of iOS. > No one has ever had a good answer to that.   plenty of people have.   the answer is simple: spp is obsolete, having been replaced by the far more capable bluetooth le.   writing apps to use le is *very* easy. not so with spp.

arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com>: Dec 27 07:04PM On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 12:27:06 -0500, nospam wrote:   > no, you don't 'often see inquiries' and there definitely are such apps > on ios.   Hi nospam, Doesn't it strike you as odd that you make claim after claim after claim, over the years, and _none_ of your claims ever turns out to be true?   Meanwhile, sms and I make claims, which we back up with cites.   It doesn't strike you as odd that you don't act like a normal adult does?   > because he doesn't have the resources and/or skills to develop and > support two apps on two different platforms. or, he's simply not > interested.   Or it can't be done on iOS the way he wants it done (e.g., Bluetooth SPP), or he doesn't want to put up with Apple's bullshit, or ... whatever conjecture you want to devise.   What's odd about you nospam is that you can never speak on facts.   The fact is that the functionality sms speaks of doesn't exist on iOS, and all your denials of that obvious fact don't change that obvious fact.   > they're about the same price, maybe a couple of bucks more for a > bluetooth le version, which is also much easier to set up and use than > bluetooth classic.   The last time you made similar idiotic fact-free claims was when you claimed there was functionality for a buck that turned out to be yet another baseless claim by you nospam, to add to the heap of baseless claims. o Name a single iOS app functionality that you can get for a buck, that isn't already on Android, for free <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/aUyeuaPI9pc/KHQx-ecNBAAJ>   Your credibility, nospam, is worse than that of the monkey.   > the answer is simple: spp is obsolete, having been replaced by the far > more capable bluetooth le.   You Apple Apologists, nospam, always makes myriad excuses for the limited functionality of iOS versus Android.   It's why we summarized the Apple/Android delta, accurately, as: o Hardware (about the same, Apple slightly less functional in general) o Apps (about the same for Mom & Pop - not even close for power users) o Storage (a completely different paradigm - no way to compare logically) <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/ahrT3Qpy_aE/cjFcFbxZDAAJ>

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 27 04:47PM -0500 In article <q037nr$6ru$1@news.mixmin.net>, arlen holder   > Or it can't be done on iOS the way he wants it done (e.g., Bluetooth SPP), > or he doesn't want to put up with Apple's bullshit, or ... whatever > conjecture you want to devise.   bluetooth le is not 'apple's bullshit'.   bluetooth le, aka bluetooth 4, replaces bluetooth classic (v3 and earlier) for almost everything. spp is *obsolete*.   it's *easier* to write apps using btle (i've done it; you have not, nor has sms) and it does a *lot* more than spp could ever possibly do.

arlen holder <arlen@holder.com>: Dec 28 12:54AM On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 16:47:14 -0500, nospam wrote:   > it's *easier* to write apps using btle (i've done it; you have not, nor > has sms) and it does a *lot* more than spp could ever possibly do.   *The only people who believe _anything_ you say, nospam, are Apologists.*   FACTS   The fact is that the OBD functionality sms speaks of, is, based on what is said in this thread by reliable people (i.e., not you, nospam), does not exist on iOS.   This apparent lack of OBD functionality seems that it might be very similar to the known lack of TOR functionality on iOS, where, in the case of TOR, there are no sanctioned apps by the Guardian Project, but only "suggested" third-best alternatives (where the Guardian Project explains that iOS simply utterly lacks in the necessary API functionality). <https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en> <https://guardianproject.info/apps/orweb/>   Those two cases may be different from the myriad other cases of utter lack of functionality on iOS (e.g., there is no ability to graph wifi signal strength over time, no torrenting, no automatic call recording, no app launchers, no second source for apps, etc.).   Why does iOS _always_ prove to lack basic app functionality? I don't know why. It just always does.   I'm not saying I know all the reasons that iOS lacks app functionality.   I am just saying that there are so very many cases where iOS lacks app functionality that Android has had for years, that your assertions always ring hollow that apps on iOS can even *approach* that which they do on Android.   In this situation, sms is more trustworthy - as you are not. (Your record on trust is worse than that of a liar & politician & salesman.)   Why you _always_ lie, nospam, is beyond me - since you gain nothing. It's a habit you need to kick - since you have zero credibility.   *The only people who believe _anything_ you say, nospam, are Apologists.*

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 27 08:22PM -0500 In article <q03s8p$ebv$1@news.mixmin.net>, arlen holder   > The fact is that the OBD functionality sms speaks of, is, based on what is > said in this thread by reliable people (i.e., not you, nospam), does not > exist on iOS.   that's not a fact at all. it's pure rubbish.   the obd functionality is entirely within the obd device that plugs into the vehicle's obd port.   that device reads assorted info from the vehicle and sends it via bluetooth to an ios or android device. there are also models that use wifi or usb, usually to be used with a laptop, as most windows laptops do not have bluetooth built in (macs do).   there is *no* limitation on what can be done with that data, other than the skill of the app developer writing the app and how much effort they wish to expend in doing so.   i've written *several* apps that use obd and bluetooth. you have not, nor has sms.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Dec 27 09:18PM -0700 On 12/27/2018 10:10 AM, sms wrote: > which OBD-II dongles will work with the iOS version (you can use Wi-Fi > dongles or BLE dongles, which are six times as expensive, but still not > outrageously priced).   Mostly because iOS is a pain in the ass. We develop apps for Android and may do iOS someday using Xamarin, but it isn't a high priority.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 27 11:27PM -0500 In article <g8lmd8F8o87U1@mid.individual.net>, rbowman   > Mostly because iOS is a pain in the ass. We develop apps for Android and > may do iOS someday using Xamarin, but it isn't a high priority.   if you don't develop for ios, you're not in a position to comment about ios being a 'pain in the ass', and if you're using xamarin for app development, you're even less in a position to comment.   i've done native app development for both ios and android, and ios is *much* easier.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>: Dec 28 04:53AM -0800 On 12/27/2018 8:18 PM, rbowman wrote: >> outrageously priced).   > Mostly because iOS is a pain in the ass. We develop apps for Android and > may do iOS someday using Xamarin, but it isn't a high priority.   Understood, but for a paid app, that is extremely popular, with >1,000,00 installs and >55,000 reviews, you'd think that the pain might be worth it for the author. Especially because you often see people asking "is there an equivalent app to Torque Pro for the iPhone?" Even prior to BLE, there were Wi-Fi OBD-II dongles being used with OBD-II iOS apps (which were a pain because you could only have one Wi-Fi connection at a time from a phone, but still usable for diagnostics, just not continuous monitoring). Developing for BLE is more difficult than using Bluetooth SPP, but not magnitudes more difficult.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 28 10:00AM -0500 In article <q056c2$rsc$1@dont-email.me>, sms   > Understood, but for a paid app, that is extremely popular, with > >1,000,00 installs and >55,000 reviews, you'd think that the pain might > be worth it for the author.   nope. if it's only one person, his hands are full with that one app.   developing for and supporting two different platforms is a lot more work than just one and it's hard to do both well.   > Especially because you often see people > asking "is there an equivalent app to Torque Pro for the iPhone?"   nope, but for those that do ask, the answer is overwhelmingly 'yes'.   > apps (which were a pain because you could only have one Wi-Fi connection > at a time from a phone, but still usable for diagnostics, just not > continuous monitoring).   false. it works quite well for continuous monitoring, but the main intent of a wifi dongle was for laptop use.   > Developing for BLE is more difficult than using > Bluetooth SPP, but not magnitudes more difficult.   nonsense. developing for bluetooth le is *significantly* easier for a number reasons. i've done both. you have not.   stop making up shit.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Dec 28 08:09AM -0700 On 12/27/2018 09:27 PM, nospam wrote: > development, you're even less in a position to comment.   > i've done native app development for both ios and android, and ios is > *much* easier.   Yeah, you've made it abundantly clear that you're an Apple fanboi. Personally, I've had one Apple product in my life -- a Shuffle someone gave me. It isn't bad but itunes sucks.   I'm a hired gun so I would have worked on Apple stuff if anyone ever wanted to pay me to do so, but they never did.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Dec 28 08:22AM -0700 On 12/28/2018 05:53 AM, sms wrote: >>1,000,00 installs and >55,000 reviews, you'd think that the pain might > be worth it for the author. Especially because you often see people > asking "is there an equivalent app to Torque Pro for the iPhone?"   Maybe, if a million iPhone users were asking for it... Buying the Apple hardware to develop on, learning the new toolchain, and dealing with the Apple store puts a little bump in the road. For Android you download Android Studio to your Windows box, pick up a cheap Android device, and you're good to go. I just bought a 7" B&N Nook for $50. It's no powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but they're not there yet.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 28 10:42AM -0500 In article <g8msjgFgl59U1@mid.individual.net>, rbowman   > > i've done native app development for both ios and android, and ios is > > *much* easier.   > Yeah, you've made it abundantly clear that you're an Apple fanboi.   ad hominem.   two can play that game: you've made it abundantly clear that you're an apple hater fueled by myths.   > Personally, I've had one Apple product in my life -- a Shuffle someone > gave me. It isn't bad but itunes sucks.   then you're even less in a position to comment.   > I'm a hired gun so I would have worked on Apple stuff if anyone ever > wanted to pay me to do so, but they never did.   you're asking the wrong people. there's a *huge* demand for apple development and it pays *quite* well.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 28 10:42AM -0500 In article <g8mtapFgptgU1@mid.individual.net>, rbowman   > Maybe, if a million iPhone users were asking for it... Buying the Apple > hardware to develop on, learning the new toolchain, and dealing with the > Apple store puts a little bump in the road.   not at all. write a decent app and you'll recover any costs many times over. there's nothing to deal with the app store either. when the app is done, submit it.   > For Android you download > Android Studio to your Windows box, pick up a cheap Android device, and > you're good to go.   same for ios.   xcode is free and pick up a cheap iphone for testing. done. and if you're *that* cheap (and not interested in quality of work), use the simulator and let your beta testers test on actual hardware.   > I just bought a 7" B&N Nook for $50. It's no > powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but > they're not there yet.   a b&n nook is in no way comparable to an iphone or ipad.

tubeguy@myshop.com: Dec 27 09:11PM -0600 Whats the difference between Magnetic & Crystal headphones?   I have an old tube tester which has a jack labeled "NOISE" I downloaded a manual for it and it says that is to hear noisy tubes. Then it says use MAGNETIC headphones, crystal headphones will NOT work.   I wont likely ever use this function, but I am curious......   My guess would be "magnetic" phones would have something like a speaker in them, and that all modern phones are made this way. (just a guess).   So what is a crystal headphone and how does that work?

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Dec 27 07:33PM -0800 > My guess would be "magnetic" phones would have something like a speaker > in them, and that all modern phones are made this way. (just a guess).   > So what is a crystal headphone and how does that work?   magnetic are either moving coil or moving iron. Google can soon explain how piezos & crystal earpieces work.     NT

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Dec 27 10:04PM -0800 > Whats the difference between Magnetic & Crystal headphones?   Magnetic headphones (like most earbuds) are low-impedance and have DC conductivity. Crystal headphones are high impedance (and are capacitive, kind of like a capacitor microphone in reverse), so have NO DC conductivity. The likely reason to use magnetic is that a DC path to ground is required to correctly bias some amplifier stage.   Absent a DC path to ground, some tube-type equipment outputs hundreds of volts, could be hazardous.

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Dec 28 04:01AM -0800 On Friday, 28 December 2018 06:04:14 UTC, whit3rd wrote: > to correctly bias some amplifier stage.   > Absent a DC path to ground, some tube-type equipment outputs hundreds of > volts, could be hazardous.   Moving iron headphones were originally in the 1-8k ohm range, modern ones mostly 32 ohms. Crystals are odrers of magnitude higher impedance, much greater efficiency & dire sound quality. A DC path can be added using a resistor or choke.     NT

Look165 <look165@numericable.fr>: Dec 28 01:34PM +0100 One works with electromagnetic force, the other works with piezoelectric force.   The first is low impedance and good for low frequencies, it uses current. The other is high impedance and good for high frequencies, it uses voltage.   With a typical 8-Ohm or 32-Ohm output, the crystal headphone is useless.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Dec 28 05:39AM -0800 http://www.circuitstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/PiezoTransducer-Circuit-Symbol.jpg   http://www.circuitstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Loudspeaker-Circuit-Symbol.jpg   I have generally found it useful to give a picture along with an explanation - it makes the jargon more grounded, pun intended.   Top picture is a Piezo (crystal) transducer symbol. In the simplest of terms, bend a crystal, it will emit electricity. Apply electricity to a crystal, it will bend. But, as you may see from the symbol, there is no direct connection between the two poles of the transducer.   A magnetic speaker, whether PM or Field Coil uses a voice-coil that is moved by changing AC voltages applied to the voice-coil. So the two poles are directly connected via the voice-coil. Yes, there is DC continuity - and as a rule, magnetic speakers do not like DC.   That the tube tester wants magnetic headphones indicates that it is a low current output device. Given that most tube testers - pretty much a done-deal after the 60s by way of design improvements - have no formal amplification built in, a magnetic headphone makes more sense. What the "Noise Tester" is measuring is a sample from the anode load resistor and amplifying the output to a speaker (or eye tube) - depending on the manufacturer.   Some testers have settings for this test that more resemble actual operating conditions, rather than "full throttle current" as typically done for life-test.   The above few lines from "sample" through "Life-test" are quotes.   http://www.john-a-harper.com/tubes201/#Noise   However, there are all kinds of noise - usually in very small values.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

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N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Dec 27 11:27AM Waving a magnet around does noticeably affect the image displacement.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>: Dec 26 09:25AM -0800 On 12/25/2018 12:27 PM, arlen holder wrote: > Merry Christmas!   > What would be your OBDII hardware + Android/iOS freeware recommendation?   I would ante up for Torque Pro. I would not use the free application.   For hardware, buy the Carista. It seems to have less issues connecting to Bluetooth than the $2 el-cheapo ELM327 devices which do work but sometimes have a problem when reconnecting after the vehicle is turned off, requiring unpairing then re-pairing.   There's a big advantage to the Carista if you have one of the vehicles that they support extra functionality on, but that functionality is not free.   <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YVHGTBM>   The Carista is BLE so it will work with the iPhone (but Torque Pro is not available on iOS), while the less expensive models are Bluetooth only, and require SPP which iOS doesn't support.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 26 12:33PM -0500 In article <q00dig$dni$1@dont-email.me>, sms   > (but Torque Pro is > not available on iOS),   who cares. there are *many* other obd apps on ios, some of which are much better than torque.   > while the less expensive models are Bluetooth > only,   they're all bluetooth.   some are bluetooth classic while others support both bluetooth classic and bluetooth le (aka bluetooth 4), with a minor, if any, difference in price.   > and require SPP which iOS doesn't support.   no need, since bluetooth le obsoletes spp and works much better all around, even on android.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>: Dec 26 09:45AM -0800 On 12/26/2018 9:25 AM, sms wrote:   > There's a big advantage to the Carista if you have one of the vehicles > that they support extra functionality on, but that functionality is not > free.   Specifically, you get the dealer-level functionality (which goes beyond the standard OBD-II functionality) on Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mini, Scion, Toyota and VW. Carista gives you a month of their app for free and of course you could sign up for a month if you ever need that functionality for a short time. The extended functionality includes vehicle customization that would normally have to be done at a dealer, as well as some additional non-standard diagnostics. <https://caristaapp.com/all-vehicles>

arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com>: Dec 26 06:35PM On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 09:45:41 -0800, sms wrote:   > Specifically, you get the dealer-level functionality (which goes beyond > the standard OBD-II functionality) on Audi, BMW, Lexus, Mini, Scion, > Toyota and VW.   Thanks for the Carista recommendation and the warning that iOS doesn't support some of the standard protocols.   Mostly I'll be on Android (it's always easier than iOS) but my iPads have larger screens than my Android phablet does.   I do have a bimmer, but this question is mostly for other cars, as I already have _all_ the BMW EDIABAS based factory (mostly in German) & dealer software that my model uses, where I use INPA & Progman mostly (where Progman requires emulation), but also I have downloads for DIS/GT1 & EasyDIS (which also requires emulation) in addition to NCSExpert & NCS Dummies and ToolSet32 & WinKFP & ToolSet32 - where I'm just looking at my software archive as I've gathered a lot over the years since the links tend to die quickly. (Most of the time, I just use INPA as I rarely need to program the dozen or so electrical control units).   This software was originally written for RS232, but it's all USB cabling nowadays, where my older bimmer is K-Line but most D-CAN cables with the FTDI chip are backwards compatible.   For the other cars though, I don't have the dealer & factory software, so I just use the old-style (cabled) OBDII readers with live data, but I am always wanting to see the data on my phone while I'm driving, particularly with intermittent issues which set triggers in modules which aren't deleted with a normal OBDII clear.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 26 01:44PM -0500 In article <q00hlr$c2n$1@news.mixmin.net>, arlen holder > > Toyota and VW.   > Thanks for the Carista recommendation and the warning that iOS doesn't > support some of the standard protocols.   ios supports the more advanced protocols. most (but not all) android devices also support them. spp is *obsolete*.

William Gothberg <WG@internet.com>: Dec 26 11:46AM -0700 In article <261220181344014176%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam@nospam.invalid says... >> support some of the standard protocols.   >ios supports the more advanced protocols. most (but not all) android >devices also support them. spp is *obsolete*.   I have a walmart phone.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 26 01:48PM -0500 In article <MPG.368d7a70cf02ade87f1@news.eternal-september.org>,   > I have a walmart phone.   walmart sells phones from other manufacturers. they don't make their own.

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is>: Dec 26 06:50PM >> ios supports the more advanced protocols. most (but not all) android >> devices also support them. spp is *obsolete*.   > I have a walmart phone.   Fuck off, you're a fake William Gothberg, did you think I wouldn't notice?

"William Gothberg" <"William Gothberg"@internet.co.is>: Dec 26 06:51PM >> I have a walmart phone.   > walmart sells phones from other manufacturers. they don't make their > own.   Congratulations, you've replied to the Fake William Gothberg.

sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com>: Dec 26 12:29PM -0800 On 12/26/2018 10:35 AM, arlen holder wrote: > always wanting to see the data on my phone while I'm driving, particularly > with intermittent issues which set triggers in modules which aren't deleted > with a normal OBDII clear.   Torque Pro is a really awesome app. An Android phone and a Bluetooth OBD-II dongle is much superior to the cheap OBD-II readers.   One really nice thing is being to set alarms for things like engine temperature.   I keep seeing people ask "is there an equivalent to Torque Pro for iOS?" No there isn't. There are iOS Apps for OBD-II but nothing as good as Torque Pro.     --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 26 03:30PM -0500 In article <q00oal$b47$1@dont-email.me>, sms   > I keep seeing people ask "is there an equivalent to Torque Pro for iOS?" > No there isn't. There are iOS Apps for OBD-II but nothing as good as > Torque Pro.   nonsense. not only are there equivalents, there are even better options.

kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey): Dec 26 08:30PM -0500 >for a short time. The extended functionality includes vehicle >customization that would normally have to be done at a dealer, as well >as some additional non-standard diagnostics.   In the case of Carista, there is a -lot- of stuff that the BMW dealer can configure with their system that Carista can't touch. And forget trying to do transmission diagnostics. But for the most part Carista lets you see the engine parameters that you need to see and a reasonable number of non-engine things, and it's hard to beat the price. Still, you're stuck with that tiny little screen and the flake-o hardware interface. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com>: Dec 27 03:02AM On 26 Dec 2018 20:30:58 -0500, Scott Dorsey wrote:   > there is a -lot- of stuff that the BMW dealer can > configure with their system that Carista can't touch. And forget trying > to do transmission diagnostics.   I use INPA, almost exclusively, for the bimmer, where we have to distinguish OBD from everything else for this particular question.   The question here was really only about OBD, since I assume everyone who wants to check things like their VANOS timing or their transmission shift points or doorlock preferences, will already have the factory/dealer software for checking and setting these myriad non-OBD things.   You start with the Bentleys & INPA, where BT OBD is merely a convenience.

arlen holder <arlen@arlen.com>: Dec 27 03:03AM On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:30:14 -0500, nospam wrote:   > nonsense. not only are there equivalents, there are even better options.   Please just name one (link) if that's the case.

etpm@whidbey.com: Dec 26 01:04PM -0800 On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:26:13 -0600, Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> wrote:   >that can put indicators and buttons on the screen. I use it to show touch >probe status and spindle speed, but you can put nearly anything on there, >such as the value of that variable.     I can already do the above with an M code. The machine counter works a little differently. >That may involve adding a couple IO points to the hal configuration, but >could certainly be done.   >Jon Our power went off during a windstorm last week and then holiday stuff came up but today I finally got back into the shop and had a look inside the control cabinet to get an idea of what would be involved, doing a swap. There are 25 connectors from the main control board going into the machine side. I want to use these connectors, all of them. So if Honda connectors are still available then it looks to me like the best way to go is to build a breakout board to interface the new control to the machine through the existing Honda connectors. Some connectors only use a few of the pins in the connector while others use most or all. So there might be as many as 30 connections being made in one connector. Many of the connectors are for connecting a bunch of relays to the control. These relays in turn often connect to bigger contactors. A lot of the connectors bring the inputs from switches to the control. 66 switches in total not counting the various limit and pressure switches. And many of the switches have multiple positions. With a new control a new keyboard could be used, and probably needs to be unless Linux CNC will emulate a Fanuc 3T keyboard. Anyway, it looks like a big project so I need to start getting everything together and ready for a plug and play swap. Plug and play is a big reason I want to use the original connectors. That way the new control can be plugged in without removing the old one. Testing can be done and if I hit any major snags then the old control can be plugged in and the lathe can make parts while I work out the bugs. Eric

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