"Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 27 10:16AM -0700
> I like the idea of the 'repair workshops' where people bring stuff
> along and volunteers try to fix it for the cost of any parts and a
> charity donation or similar?
This goes to a post I made some years ago when a British gentleman asked about initiating a 'repair cafe. I have been doing this along in the vintage electronics hobby for well over 20 years now - so my 'rules' are as follows:
I participate in the occasional radio-club related repair clinic, and give one twice a year in Kutztown, teaching basic diagnostic and repair techniques for vintage radios and electronics from the 1920s to approximately the 1990s. There are some basic rules for the protection of the clinician and the 'customer'.
a) Do not take money. Do not imply Fee-for-Service. The moment money is taken, there is an expectation of professionalism and expertise that conveys a level of liability.
b) Make it clear that you are doing this as a hobby, and that you are demonstrating technique and skills that may be useful to the customer in their future endeavors along the same hobby-related lines.
c) If parts are to be replaced, those parts *must* be obtained and supplied by the customer. Pointing to possible sources is OK, as long as you are able to point to more than one.
d) If power must be applied to an item during the process, the source must be isolated, and you must explain to the customer the reasons for it, and advise him/her why this is so.
e) Kluge repairs left in place are not acceptable, full stop. For instance, if one jumps out a damaged 'fuse resistor' to determine whether replacing it is worthwhile and the customer does not have the actual replacement - you may go as far as to suggest that the item is repairable - but not here, and not without the proper parts. Remove the jumper.
Whether or not an organization has "insurance cover', should there be an unfortunate event, the individual tech involved will remain involved whether liable for actual damages or not. And whereas most individuals are sincere and mean no harm, a fire, shock or other occurrence will change even the most gentle person.
I will teach technique, and I will show individuals how to make their own basic repairs such as re-capping, cleaning and similar. I will point them to books, manuals and sources. But in a situation where one is dealing with the *GENERAL PUBLIC*, I will take nothing for granted.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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three_jeeps <jjhudak@gmail.com>: May 27 10:36AM -0700
On Monday, May 24, 2021 at 8:59:53 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
> a router without wifi? (bought by mistake at a hamfest, when I didn't
> notice it had no antenna. Otherwise it looked just like the one I was
> using.
in the states, you may want to check with your municipal waste company that services your area. There are some that will collect electronics, including devices with CRT, paints, and some 'hazardous wastes' on a per call basis. They do this because it is part of their service agreement. I recently got rid of 4, 19" crt monitors and about 10 partially full 1-gal paint cans.
In some municipalities, there are 'dump sites' where people can take their trash. In these sites there is usually a room with tables where people can donate their electronics, books, games, etc. for anyone to pick up if they have a use. While visiting a relative in Lincoln, MA, I visited one of these places and picked up a nice apple 27" all in one. Assuming it did not work, and suspecting that it had suffered from the defective capacitor problem for units of that era, I got it, replaced the caps and had a nice system.
Some older devices like MBs have life on ebay. Certain FAX modems have a good afterlife - only for the FAX capability. There are a few that implement the fax protocol correctly and are useful in fax servers. Well, as long as faxes continue to exist but their usage is declining.
j
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"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com>: May 27 06:58PM +0100
>> We have fibre optics.
> We do too and all the new stuff is, but we also have VDSL2+
> and so do you. I could have said the original better.
Only in a very few outlying areas.
> and for the kindle and for all the fully automated
> lights etc and for all the stuff like echo dots, google
> home minis and for the video surveillance too.
I'm trying to set up video surveillance - testing some USB cameras, might go for IP cameras over an ethernet cable. But WiFi is nowhere near fast enough for several 4K video streams.
>> It's only for the mobile phone, and only because I run science projects on
>> it which would eat 4G data.
> Yep, you are a real dinosaur tech wise.
I only use tech that I need or want, you use it for the sake of it.
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"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com>: May 27 07:00PM +0100
>> Has to be a fair price to bother with that. Ebay take 10%,
>> then you pay shipping.
> Or the buyer does.
Silly way of looking at it. When I buy I look at the whole price. Item + postage, or item + fuel for me to drive there. If something is worth £10 to Mr Smith, but it costs £8 to get it to him, you can only extract £2 from Mr Smith.
>> If it's not going to make a profit, put it on freecycle,
> The local facebook buy swap sell groups work much better.
Maybe they do over there, but here Gumtree and Freecycle work best. I went on a Facebook group and it had about 20 times less stuff. I put a cooker on Gumtree and was phoned in 2 minutes.
>> there will be someone who wants to play with old stuff,
> Depends on what it is. No one ever
> wants the old CRT tvs or monitors.
People with enough space that just want a crappy screen for a Linux server do.
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"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com>: May 27 07:02PM +0100
> Ebay reaches more people. Those here who read Freecycle, or NextDoor,
> or a community webpage I could use, don't know how to fiddle with any of
> my old stuff.
I've never found anyone on Ebay to come and collect. Ebay buyers seem to expect postage. Gumtree works best here for come get it stuff that's too big to post. Freecycle is fairly good too.
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>: May 28 05:40AM +1000
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
>> We do too and all the new stuff is, but we also have VDSL2+
>> and so do you. I could have said the original better.
> Only in a very few outlying areas.
That's not true.
> I'm trying to set up video surveillance - testing some USB cameras, might
> go for IP cameras over an ethernet cable. But WiFi is nowhere near fast
> enough for several 4K video streams.
Plenty fast enough for the one for each camera.
>>> on it which would eat 4G data.
>> Yep, you are a real dinosaur tech wise.
> I only use tech that I need or want,
But what you need or want is stupid with smartphones.
> you use it for the sake of it.
Wrong, I use tech that I need or want.
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>: May 28 05:44AM +1000
Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote
>>> then you pay shipping.
>> Or the buyer does.
> Silly way of looking at it.
Yours is.
> When I buy I look at the whole price. Item + postage, or item + fuel for
> me to drive there.
So does everyone else with a clue.
> If something is worth £10 to Mr Smith, but it costs £8 to get it to him,
> you can only extract £2 from Mr Smith.
Silly way of looking at it.
>>> If it's not going to make a profit, put it on freecycle,
>> The local facebook buy swap sell groups work much better.
> Maybe they do over there, but here Gumtree and Freecycle work best.
Bullshit.
> I went on a Facebook group and it had about 20 times less stuff. I put a
> cooker on Gumtree and was phoned in 2 minutes.
The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'
>> wants the old CRT tvs or monitors.
> People with enough space that just want a crappy screen for a Linux server
> do.
There are far fewer of those than there are old CRT tvs or monitors.
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"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>: May 28 05:47AM +1000
"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:op.032cdwu3mvhs6z@ryzen.lan...
>> or a community webpage I could use, don't know how to fiddle with any of
>> my old stuff.
> I've never found anyone on Ebay to come and collect.
Plenty do that with the bigger stuff in big citys and with cars, boats,
houses etc etc etc.
> Ebay buyers seem to expect postage.
Plenty don't with the bigger stuff in big citys and with cars, boats, houses
etc etc etc.
> Gumtree works best here for come get it stuff that's too big to post.
Bullshit.
> Freecycle is fairly good too.
Facebook local buy swap sell groups work much better.
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Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>: May 27 11:00PM +0200
On Fri, 28 May 2021 05:44:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the two subnormal sociopathic cretins' endless absolutely idiotic
blather>
--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between Birdbrain and senile Rodent:
Senile Rodent: " Did you ever dig a hole to bury your own shit?"
Birdbrain: "I do if there's no flush toilet around."
Senile Rodent: "Yeah, I prefer camping like that, off by myself with
no dunnys around and have always buried the shit."
MID: <fv66kaFml0nU2@mid.individual.net>
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Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>: May 27 11:00PM +0200
On Fri, 28 May 2021 05:47:27 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the two subnormal sociopathic cretins' endless absolutely idiotic
blather>
--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the two resident idiots:
Birdbrain: "But imagine how cool it was to own slaves."
Senile Rodent: "Yeah, right. Feed them, clothe them, and fix them when
they're broken.
After all, you paid good money for them. Then you've got to keep an eye
on them all the time."
Birdbrain: "Better than having to give them wages on top of that."
Senile Rodent: "Specially when they make more slaves for you
and produce their own food and clothes."
MID: <fvlcdcFq2icU1@mid.individual.net>
|
Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>: May 27 11:01PM +0200
On Fri, 28 May 2021 05:40:15 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:
<FLUSH the two subnormal sociopathic cretins' endless absolutely idiotic
blather>
--
Another typical retarded "conversation" between the two resident idiots:
Birdbrain: "Indeed, in America they usually just shoot you."
Senile Rodent:"They hardly ever do that with cops."
Birdbrain: "Everybody shoots everybody over there,"
Senile Rodent: "Didn't notice Obama shooting anyone."
Birdbrain: "He's not American."
Senile Rodent: "Didn't notice Slick shooting anyone."
MID: <fvnuaeFbhmmU1@mid.individual.net>
_____________________________________________________________________________
Pity that a 86-year-old cretin from Oz got nothing better to do during the
remaining days of his senile "life" than spread his "fame" as an obnoxious
Usenet troll!
_____________________________________________________________________________
--
Another typical retarded conversation between our two village idiots,
Birdbrain and Rodent Speed:
Birdbrain: "You beat me to it. Plain sex is boring."
Senile Rodent: "Then fuck the cats. That wont be boring."
Birdbrain: "Sell me a de-clawing tool first."
Senile Rodent: "Wont help with the teeth."
Birdbrain: "They've never gone for me with their mouths."
Rodent Speed: "They will if you are stupid enough to try fucking them."
Birdbrain: "No, they always use claws."
Rodent Speed: "They wont if you try fucking them. Try it and see."
Message-ID: <g3cjf7FavtgU1@mid.individual.net>
|
T i m <news@spaced.me.uk>: May 28 11:22AM +0100
On Thu, 27 May 2021 10:16:28 -0700 (PDT), "Peter W."
>> along and volunteers try to fix it for the cost of any parts and a
>> charity donation or similar?
>This goes to a post I made some years ago when a British gentleman asked about initiating a 'repair cafe. I have been doing this along in the vintage electronics hobby for well over 20 years now
Excellent.
>- so my 'rules' are as follows:
>I participate in the occasional radio-club related repair clinic, and give one twice a year in Kutztown, teaching basic diagnostic and repair techniques for vintage radios and electronics from the 1920s to approximately the 1990s. There are some basic rules for the protection of the clinician and the 'customer'.
>a) Do not take money. Do not imply Fee-for-Service. The moment money is taken, there is an expectation of professionalism and expertise that conveys a level of liability.
Understood. I have often done the same for friends of friends (who may
not already know 'the deal'). Best endeavours, no guarantees and no
liability accepted etc.
>b) Make it clear that you are doing this as a hobby, and that you are demonstrating technique and skills that may be useful to the customer in their future endeavors along the same hobby-related lines.
Check.
>c) If parts are to be replaced, those parts *must* be obtained and supplied by the customer. Pointing to possible sources is OK, as long as you are able to point to more than one.
Makes sense. A mate used to work that way in his car garage.
Mainstream new parts from manufacturer or factor or parts supplied by
the customer (where no liability for any consequences relating from a
failure of such excepted).
>d) If power must be applied to an item during the process, the source must be isolated, and you must explain to the customer the reasons for it, and advise him/her why this is so.
Are we talking auto/isolation-transformers here?
>e) Kluge repairs left in place are not acceptable, full stop. For instance, if one jumps out a damaged 'fuse resistor' to determine whether replacing it is worthwhile and the customer does not have the actual replacement - you may go as far as to suggest that the item is repairable - but not here, and not without the proper parts. Remove the jumper.
Good example. A Freecycle Colour Laser printer I picked up had two
(identical?) thermal switches in series in the fuser heater supply,
presumably so that there could be a 'failsafe' switch in case the one
became locked shut. I 'temporarily' shorted out the faulty one (and
applied a notice on the body of the printer to that effect) and it
remains so, but I never left the printer on and it's currently unused
in any case. I wouldn't have left it like that if it was going out of
my hands.
>Whether or not an organization has "insurance cover', should there be an unfortunate event, the individual tech involved will remain involved whether liable for actual damages or not. And whereas most individuals are sincere and mean no harm, a fire, shock or other occurrence will change even the most gentle person.
Agreed. A neighbour asked me if I could show him how he could service
the brakes on his own motorbike and because I was aware of his
complete lack of wrenching skills (and tools, experience, interest,
patience), I declined.
>I will teach technique, and I will show individuals how to make their own basic repairs such as re-capping, cleaning and similar. I will point them to books, manuals and sources. But in a situation where one is dealing with the *GENERAL PUBLIC*, I will take nothing for granted.
Wise words.
I often have to remind myself that some people don't have the same
range of skills as me (/us?). I'm only a 'Jack of all trades' (when
that is mostly anything practical that doesn't require lots of
training, (expensive) specialist tools or a specific mindset, like
plastering or coding) but was born into an era when 'make do and mend'
was still just about current and whilst I was always looked after by
my parents when it came to important stuff (school equipment etc), I
was generally left to sort out my own stuff, like bicycles, mopeds,
motorcycles and cars.
I also had an interest in 'things' from an early age and would
regularly open stuff up or take faulty things to bits to learn how
they worked.
Along those lines I was also often given old electrical stuff, radios
and record players by friends and family (mostly faulty at some level)
and would often repair them. A broken drive belt, a broken wire, blown
fuse or even a transistor shorted to the (earthed) can. ;-)
So I often assume everone else can learn to do the same range of
things (if I can, so can they ...) but that isn't always the case (it
seems).
A mate is also running Home Assistant home automation software to
mostly do things around his fish tanks and recently I dropped off all
the parts for him to assemble such a project (a CO2 controller [1])
and had overseen him configuring / programming the ESP32 board and
Home Assistant integration remotely over Teamviewer.
I setup the same thing here, tested it and sent him a picture.
His tasks. Solder some header pins onto a uUSB board (1x5, it breaks
out a uUSB connector), solder some header pins onto an ESP32 (2 x 19),
jumper 2 wires between uUSB board and 4ch opto isolator board (2
wires), jumper the output of the opto to the ESP32 (3 wires).
I'd provided him the circuit diagram for the opto board, the pinout of
the ESP32 and plenty of verbal guidance as to the goals.
Phone call the next day:
'I'm getting not 5V out of the uSB boards' (I had given him two boards
in case he screwed one up). I took him though various steps and it
turned out to be a dirty connection on his DMM.
Then it was a misconnection between uUSB board and input to the opto
(Gnd > Gnd, 5V to 'NC'!, 5V wire then moved to Input1).
Then there was a misconnection between opto and ESP32 (Gnd from opto
connected to a data pin next to Gnd pin on ESP32).
Once they were all resolved, it all worked as planned. ;-)
He actually added a Dallas '1 wire' temperature sensor himself and to
the right pins but it didn't work, turned out to *need* the / a pullup
resistor (sometimes doesn't, I was trying to keep it simple for him).
;-)
My point was that I thought he 'understood' what I was telling him but
it may well have been that he didn't, knew there was no point in
asking as he still wouldn't understand or remember and so let it wash
over him knowing I was at the end of the line for guidance, as / when
he needed it.
Cheers, T i m
[1] He has an expensive CO2 controller that monitors the CO2 level in
a fish tank and then turns on a mains powered solenoid to allow Co2 to
bubble though the water for the plants during the day. He didn't want
to waste CO2 gas during the night. I didn't want him playing with 240V
or tampering with the existing controller so he powered the solenoid
from a TP-Link WiFi smart socket controlled by Home Assistant and we
used a basic phone charger plug to supply 5V to the ESP32 input as a
binary trigger to indicate the CO2 controller was calling for CO2, but
HA would inhibit that via a condition in an automation between the
hours of 22:00 and 08:00.
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"Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 28 06:39AM -0700
> Are we talking auto/isolation-transformers here?
In my case, I use a Heathkit IP-5220 Isolated Variac - so, yes.
http://www.ipernity.com/remote/download.php/200/56/84/45315684.079e41d2.jpg?download=Heathkit%20%20IP-5220.jpg
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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