Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Feb 06 05:06PM
In article <56df672b-edcb-4e9e-a2f5-5ef90a5e7c83n@googlegroups.com>,
peterwieck33@gmail.com says...
> > that the spring force can affect 1% of the clock's rate, clearly
> > unacceptable).
> Here in the US, spring-driven pendulum clocks did not, and do not, for the most part, use barrels. They did, however, use the deadbeat escapement (Seth Thomas patent in the US) that does tolerate a wide range of spring force. Making accurate clocks much cheaper than before, as to get that level of accuracy, they often required a fusee drive. And for exactly the reason given. Any escapement with backlash as you suggest, allows the drive force (spring) to overcome the
pendulum swing, introducing all sorts of inaccuracy.
> Peter Wieck
> Melrose Park, PA
Anyone really interested in clock mechanisms could study "chain fusee"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusee_(horology)
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David Farber <farberbear.unspam@aol.com>: Feb 06 09:57AM -0800
On 2/6/2022 1:40 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
> have much need for the power sink add-on or the built-in mAh accumulator
> etc. I think it also monitors the charge control negotiation and
> displays the result. There's a user-manual PDF link.
Hi Mike,
Did you inadvertently leave out the description of, "... the one I bought"?
Thanks for your reply.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA
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legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>: Feb 06 01:26PM -0500
>USBC. Just get the cheapest from eBay but make sure is counts mAh
>cumulative with a reset as well as V and A, some dont. Some will read A
>to .000 most only do 2 places. C+
These will not tell you actual battery status as they have no access
to the battery terminals - only converter socket input and output.
Currents will differ on both sides of the converters, in both
directions and the external dongle will ignore the influence of
both battery charging efficiency and converter losses in the
transactions.
. . . but then so do most built-in gauges, even for varying internal
consumption. The best you'll ever get is a ball park estimate that
your own experience has to qualify.
RL
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Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Feb 06 07:45PM
In article <stp26i$vca$1@dont-email.me>, farberbear.unspam@aol.com
says...
> Hi Mike,
> Did you inadvertently leave out the description of, "... the one I bought"?
> Thanks for your reply.
I didn't do it on purpose(!), and browser history has helped me get back
to the page: <https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Multimeter-Current-
Detector-delivery/dp/B07P252NY2/ref=sr_1_2?
keywords=usb+power+analyzer&qid=1644139878&sprefix=usb+power+anal%2Caps%
2C502&sr=8-2#descriptionAndDetails>
Link to manual: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91cIyXAmu8L.pdf
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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 06 01:31PM -0800
On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 10:54:40 -0800, David Farber
>I have various USB chargers, cords, and portable devices around the
>house. One of my devices, a Kindle Fire from around 2013,
That's 9 years old. You could be dealing with an almost dead battery.
Complaint: EVERY time you post a question, you either leave out or
truncate the details on what you're working with. Some Kindle Fire
models have "issues" and it's helpful to look for these "issues" or
recalls before assaulting the alleged symptoms. In this case,
None/HD/HDX/Kids, screen size, and what year Kindle Fire. Extra
credit for some details on the charger.
<https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/blog/2014/07/how-to-identify-your-kindle-model/>
>it seems to take much longer to go from 15% to 16%
>than from 95%-100%.
Hmmm... That's about what I would guess happens when you plug in an
underpowered charger. As I vaguely recall, some of the Kindle tablets
required a 5V 1.5A or 2.0A charger. Commodity chargers only deliver
0.5A. If the USB controller chip in the charger is over-heating, I
would expect something similar to what you're experiencing.
Perhaps providing how long it takes (in minutes) might also be
helpful? How long did it take to charge when it was new?
>In any case, I'd be curious to know how much the
>charging current is fluctuating and if there is any variation in
>performance between the wall chargers I have in my drawer.
You won't see much of that with an inline USB power meter unless you
want to record voltage and current every few minutes and draw a graph.
Something like this:
"USB Current Sensor"
<https://www.sparkfun.com/products/18016>
Software:
<https://github.com/sparkfunX/USB_Current_Sensor>
Setup your computah as a data logger and measure the voltage output
produced by the current sensor (1amp = 1volt). Graph the results and
you can see what it's doing. My guess(tm) is that the graph is going
to be far more erratic than you've already observed. If you don't
want a pretty graph, just use the current senor and put voltmeters
across the 5V line for the voltage, and across the output for current.
Also, put an oscilloscope across USB 5V line. You might see
oscillation and/or noise spikes.
>something that will test "C" ports as well as the older ones. Any
>recommendations? It seems that every review I read contains more than a
>few complaints about reliability and sturdiness.
I only have a pile of USB 2.0 type volt/amp USB meters. For fun, I
put them all in series and compared readings. Not too horrible +/-5%
on both voltage and current. However, you need something that will do
USB 3.0:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=usb+3.0+tester>
>Thanks for your reply.
Gone to split some more firewood.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Feb 07 09:06AM +1100
On 6/2/22 11:50 pm, Peter W. wrote:
>> that the spring force can affect 1% of the clock's rate, clearly
>> unacceptable).
> Here in the US, spring-driven pendulum clocks did not, and do not, for the most part, use barrels. They did, however, use the deadbeat escapement (Seth Thomas patent in the US) that does tolerate a wide range of spring force. Making accurate clocks much cheaper than before, as to get that level of accuracy, they often required a fusee drive. And for exactly the reason given. Any escapement with backlash as you suggest, allows the drive force (spring) to overcome the pendulum swing, introducing all sorts of inaccuracy.
Deadbeat removes one source of inaccuracy, but at the end of the day,
the spring has to deliver power to the pendulum to keep it swinging, and
that coupling varies with spring force. The bottom line is that it's
easier to e.g. use a heavier pendulum than it is to make a spring with a
flatter power curve. The Taiwanese 31-day clocks can often tolerate a
pendulum 3x heavier, and that dramatically improves their timekeeping.
CH
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David Farber <farberbear.unspam@aol.com>: Feb 06 04:34PM -0800
On 2/6/2022 1:31 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> <https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=usb+3.0+tester>
>> Thanks for your reply.
> Gone to split some more firewood.
Hi Jeff and all the other contributors to this group,
I really do appreciate all the feedback I get from this community. I've
been posting messages and getting expert help here for over 20 years.
As to your complaint about me leaving out important details every time,
I am not doing that intentionally. I was expecting to purchase a USB
tool that would help me figure out if one of my chargers, cords, or USB
port on the Kindle were intermittent. I didn't think that it would be a
manufacturing glitch or defect specific to this device.
The Kindle model is: P48WVB4 otherwise known as a Fire HD (3rd
generation) with a 7" screen. On the back, near the model number it says
"Input: 5.0 VDC MAX 1.8A" I received the device 2nd hand when the owner
upgraded to a new one. I don't have the original charger. I have three
chargers which came from various devices and sources. Two of them are
5.0 VDC 1A and the third one is, 5.0 VDC 0.85A. I have three USB cords.
One is quite old and I suspect this is part of the problem.
I viewed the link to the current sensor tool you mentioned
(https://github.com/sparkfunX/USB_Current_Sensor). Though it does not
have a display, it does have output terminals which the others do not.
Again, I think the problem my Kindle has is a loose connection or a bad
wire that can be easily detected by just monitoring the current while
tapping on the connectors and flexing the wires. The battery when fully
charged, will last around a week before needing to be recharged. I use
it from 1-3 hours a day and leave the wireless disabled and brightness
set to one step above minimum as I read in the evening with the text set
to a white font and the background set to dark.
Thanks for your reply.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA
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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 06 06:54PM -0800
On Sun, 6 Feb 2022 16:34:35 -0800, David Farber
>The Kindle model is: P48WVB4 otherwise known as a Fire HD (3rd
>generation) with a 7" screen.
In the Amazonian language, that's a
"Kindle Fire HD 7, 2013, 3rd Generation"
<https://developer.amazon.com/docs/fire-tablets/ft-device-specifications-firehd-models.html?v=firehd_2013>
Note that this is the 2nd version of the Kindle Fire HD 7, but since
it was released in the 3rd year after the original, Amazon decided to
call it the 3rd generation. Bigger numbers are better.
I couldn't find anything that looked like a manufacturer's defect or
chronic problem, just the usual bugs and glitches:
<https://www.androidauthority.com/amazon-fire-tablet-problems-fixes-539370/>
> On the back, near the model number it says
>"Input: 5.0 VDC MAX 1.8A"
Bingo. That's either a 2Amp or 10 Watt charger. I found a few
references that indicate that the Kindle Fire HD 7 3rd generation
supports PD (power delivery) for fast charging. You might want to
borrow a 10 watt or 15 watt PD charger and see if it magically fixing
the charge time problem.
>I received the device 2nd hand when the owner
>upgraded to a new one. I don't have the original charger.
Sigh. He probably kept the PD charger (if that's what the Kindle Fire
HD 7 3rd generation uses).
>I have three
>chargers which came from various devices and sources. Two of them are
>5.0 VDC 1A and the third one is, 5.0 VDC 0.85A.
Both of those chargers should default to charging at 5V 0.5A. They'll
probably work, but very sloooooooowly.
>I have three USB cords.
>One is quite old and I suspect this is part of the problem.
I'll assume USB-C cables. A large percentage of the USB-C cables seem
to use very fine wire and therefore have a substantial voltage drop.
Phones, tablets, gizmos, and the guys who wrote the USB specs, will do
strange things if the voltage drops below:
5.0V -5% = 4.75V
A bad cable might be a problem, but I don't think so. When I see bad
cables, it's usually very "digital". It either works, or it doesn't,
with nothing in between.
>I viewed the link to the current sensor tool you mentioned
>(https://github.com/sparkfunX/USB_Current_Sensor). Though it does not
>have a display, it does have output terminals which the others do not.
Please re-read what I wrote. You need to supply a voltmeter (DVM) in
order to read the current. The device converts USB current into a
measurable voltage (1Amp = 1Volt) while introducing only a tiny
voltage loss.
>Again, I think the problem my Kindle has is a loose connection or a bad
>wire that can be easily detected by just monitoring the current while
>tapping on the connectors and flexing the wires.
OK. I give up. Please purchase a USB 3.0 tester, any tester, and see
if it can detect an intermittent cable or connector. When that fails,
come back here and I'll try to convince you to try a 10 watt (or 15
watt) charger, or consider a replacement battery.
"How to Replace Your Amazon Kindle Fire HD 7 3rd Generation Battery"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IMHHMM8sqg>
<https://newpower99.com/products/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-3rd-generation-battery-replacement-kit>
Hmmm... a bit expensive. More batteries:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=amazon+kindle+fire+hd+3rd+generation+battery>
>it from 1-3 hours a day and leave the wireless disabled and brightness
>set to one step above minimum as I read in the evening with the text set
>to a white font and the background set to dark.
I can't tell much from that without knowing how long it would run
under similar conditions when it was new. CNet test show 9.3 hrs
runtime for their video test.
<https://www.cnet.com/reviews/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-2013-review/>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 06 07:07PM -0800
On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 18:54:30 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>I found a few
>references that indicate that the Kindle Fire HD 7 3rd generation
>supports PD (power delivery) for fast charging.
That's wrong. I did some more digging and could not find any
references to the Kindle Fire HD 7 2013 3rd generation supporting PD
(power delivery). The closest approximation to a spec sheet doesn't
mention PD (or any other fast charging specs):
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_HD>
Therefore, any 5V charger that will provide 2amps (10 watts) and a USB
2.0 Micro-B connector, should work.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Feb 06 11:57PM -0800
On Saturday, February 5, 2022 at 1:43:25 PM UTC-8, David Farber wrote:
> > The deviation you've noted is probably not worth the time,
> > trouble or expense to pursue, unless you're in the design/
> > build/test/repair/volume-trade businesses.
The under-$10 items from Banggood and other marketers are adequate to
tell if y our charge power supply can handle 100/500/1000/2000 mA currents,
and if the voltage is correct. Some low-end USB sources are low-powered, some
are not, and all the USB chargeables are different; sometimes it's nice to match
the best charge source with the tablet that needs it. It won't tell you power, exactly, just
monitors average current and voltage, but that's a good start.
Beware, type C connections, as well as mini-B, micro-B, B, A, OTG and USB SuperSpeed, may
not all work with any particular box; only the power current and voltage are fully compatible,
not the connectors and data-transfer particulars.
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