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J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>: Oct 31 04:15PM -0400 On 10/31/14, 6:14 AM, Mike Marlow wrote: >> Problem, solved.   > How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that > way?   Just holler to the teacher to turn on the ventilator because you just stunk up the bathroom.

J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com>: Oct 31 04:19PM -0400 > When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten > classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.   When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother made us bathe every week.

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com>: Oct 31 09:03PM Stormin Mormon wrote, on Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:52:10 -0400:   > CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture. > Very possible the entire school system is run on self esteem, and > fragile feelings, instead of old fashioned tried and true.   Does anyone here have high school kids? Would you ask *them* what they use for a bathroom pass? I'd be interested in the results.

krw@attt.bizz: Oct 31 07:00PM -0400 On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 01:25:48 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"   > It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the last >hurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the disabled and >senior citizens.   Less interruption? How so? When we were in high school (long before) there were no "bathroom passes". Classes were 50 minutes with 10 minutes between. Young adults were expected to be potty trained.

krw@attt.bizz: Oct 31 07:01PM -0400 On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 16:19:25 -0400, J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> wrote:   >> classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.   >When I was a kid, schools didn't have bathrooms. At home, my mother >made us bathe every week.   OK, Abe. ;-)

krw@attt.bizz: Oct 31 07:01PM -0400 On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 06:14:15 -0400, "Mike Marlow" >> Problem, solved.   >How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that >way?   Wait for the class to get over, then skip the next.

sam@repairfaq.org (Samuel M. Goldwasser): Oct 31 04:39PM -0400 > magnetron. Do you have a tv repair place anywhere nearby? They would > probably be willing to loan you a probe since they do not use them > very often any more with solid state displays.   Geez, the magnetron is probably less than $20 on eBay.   -- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html   Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Oct 31 10:05PM > You really need to test the HV before proceeding to replace the magnetron. Do you have a tv repair place anywhere nearby? They would probably be willing to loan you a probe since they do not use them very often any more with solid state displays.   A yoke tester should have the proper ranges too- if it has the correct probe. None of the ones on ebay do.

chuck <chuck@deja.net>: Oct 31 04:53PM -0500 On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 12:01:48 -0700, dplatt@coop.radagast.org (David Platt) wrote:   > station" (increasing its relative strength), or "aimed at an angle > away from the undesired station" (to put the interfering station in > a "null" in the antenna's reception pattern).     I have a Denon tuner where the narrow ceramic filters were not narrow enough to weed out the station I wanted to eliminate. I bought narrower filters from Digikey which resolved my problem. Chuck

"Ron D." <Ron.Dozier@gmail.com>: Oct 31 10:16AM -0700 Cobwebs that get wet at either the pole junction or internal to the house.   The inside problems I found.   But, we were having issues where the phone would cut out when it rained. DSL was worse, but would connect.   One of the techs actually came back and said "Here was your problem", and brought back a piece of wire with some of the insulation chewed. He said, while I was at it, I removed about 1000' from your telco line.   Generally, by the time the tech came out, the problem would go away. e.g. It dried out.

bud-- <null@void.com>: Oct 31 12:55PM -0600 On 10/30/2014 11:46 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: >>> repeated. Pick up phone, and someone was there?! albeit the connection >>> sounded like old fashioned long distance.   >> This reminds me of a strange service call I had when I worked as a Bell System repair technician. It was a rural area and the customer complained that none of her phones would ring, but that she knew somebody was calling whenever her dog howled. Sounded crazy to me, but it turns out that she was on a party line which requires a good earth ground on the third (yellow) wire for the ringers. Well, the unlucky dog was chained to a poorly grounded water pipe which also held the ground clamp and wire for the telephone protector. Whenever she got a call the poor dog got a 90VAC jolt! That's one of the reasons the telcos quit grounding to water pipes in favor of the electrical power neutral.   (US practice.)   You mean the service "ground", not the neutral.   Phone techs had better not be connecting anything inside the service panel.   A convenient point of connection is the wire to the earthing electrodes, but it is not the only place the connection can be made.   Recent services have an "intersystem bonding termination" where phone and coax entry ground connections must be made.     > The reason that they switched was that the NEC required them to. Some > fools couldn't tell the difference between a water and a gas pipe.   The NEC did not require them to.   Water pipes (10 or more ft of metal in contact with the earth) must still be used as one of the power system earthing electrodes.   That metal water pipe can still be used as the ground for phone entry protectors (if there is no intersystem bonding termination). In the past the connection could be anywhere. Now it must be within the first 5 ft inside the building. That is the same place the connection must now be made for the water pipe as an earthing electrode.   Gas pipes are grounded at locations like furnaces.   Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) is often used for gas piping inside a building because it is flexible. There have been fires and explosions, and I think all manufacturers now require the stuff to be connected to the earthing system near the building entry. (There have been fires where the stuff was grounded to manufacturer's specs. An electrical inspector recommended electricians not make the ground connection, then they will not be involved in the lawsuit. I would not use CSST.)

bud-- <null@void.com>: Oct 31 01:08PM -0600 > Turns out he had two ground rods driven in and for whatever reason there was a ground gradient. A slight ground gradient at power line is not necessarily proof of a fault, depends where they are. And really, we are only talking about interfereing with video which is what, a volt P-P ?   There is not enough information to tell how this was set up. But all earthing electrodes are required to be bonded together into one system. That includes any lightning rod system.   The cable shield is grounded to the earthing system at the entry to the house. The service neutral is also connected to the earthing system. For overhead distribution I assume the cable drop is grounded at the tap at the feeder cable. The feed cable is grounded at at least some of the poles. That puts the cable drop in parallel with the house service neutral, and the neutral voltage drop will appear on the shield. Only way I can see to avoid it is if the cable drop is isolated at the source tap (like transformer coupled). I assume significant 60Hz is removed with a high pass filter. What is the signal voltage on cable?

etpm@whidbey.com: Oct 31 11:10AM -0700 On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:33:56 -0700 (PDT), junebug1701 >> repeated. Pick up phone, and someone was there?! albeit the connection >> sounded like old fashioned long distance.   >This reminds me of a strange service call I had when I worked as a Bell System repair technician. It was a rural area and the customer complained that none of her phones would ring, but that she knew somebody was calling whenever her dog howled. Sounded crazy to me, but it turns out that she was on a party line which requires a good earth ground on the third (yellow) wire for the ringers. Well, the unlucky dog was chained to a poorly grounded water pipe which also held the ground clamp and wire for the telephone protector. Whenever she got a call the poor dog got a 90VAC jolt! That's one of the reasons the telcos quit grounding to water pipes in favor of the electrical power neutral. Years ago I lived in a neighborhood with ground water problems. The developement had been built on a wetland. After the lots were graded many homes, mine included, only had about 6 inches of soil sitting on hardpan. The development ran downhill so the lots and streets were stepped. Anyway, one day my phone service got really noisy and later that day I was out in the front yard and noticed water coming out from under the cover of the pedestal mounted phone box. I called the phone company and was told that phones don't use water and so there couldn't be water coming out of the box. I insisted on a service call and was told I'd be billed if it wasn't the phone box spurting water. When the guy came out to fix the problem he was flabbergasted. He had never seen anything like it. The temporary solution was to remove a cover on the pedestal so the water poured out before the box. Later that year all the phone lines on my street were re-done and a new box installed up the street. Eric

jurb6006@gmail.com: Oct 31 11:27AM -0700 >"Of >course, a fool like you would think that a worker being killed by a >spark around a gas leak is funny. "   WTF is wrong with you ? I am certainly not the fool here. That joke about the dog barking is a JOKE.   Lemme splain it to you, telco wires are not grounded, they are a pair. IF, and this is a pretty good sized IF, one of them became grounded at all there would be a shitload of noise on the line, probably to the point of making it unusable.   IT IS FICTION. And thanx for trying unsuccessfully to bust my balls. It makes me look good.   Now about the selling of daughters, that wasn't me. You should know who that was, it is in the Bible.   So you think they grounded a telephone line with a short in it to a dog chain ? And I am a fool ?   I'll tell you what, I think that anyone who EVER EVEN THOUGHT of joining the military should not be allowed to run for any office. Military people should never have domain over private Citizens. You sold your ass into slavery to the oil companies, I don't want you selling ours. (any more that is)   Hurry up and find another name to call me. It'll make you feel better. EVER.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 02:40PM -0400 > I'll tell you what, I think that anyone who EVER EVEN THOUGHT of joining the military should not be allowed to run for any office. Military people should never have domain over private Citizens. You sold your ass into slavery to the oil companies, I don't want you selling ours. (any more that is)   > Hurry up and find another name to call me. It'll make you feel better. > EVER.     Yawn. The Central office grounds the positive side of their battery bank, and in the early days some phones lines were run with existing fence wire. They run a pair of wires to ensure a better return path to the C.O. or where the line is multiplexed onto a copper pair or fiber optic. The reason for protecting both wires at the network interface is to divert induced current from lightning strikes to ground at that end rather than let it flow back to the other end.   -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Oct 31 11:40AM -0700 >"But all >earthing electrodes are required to be bonded together into one system. >That includes any lightning rod system. "'   It may or may not have been in that case, I was never at the site. I did not wire the place. Thing is, with a large place there can be a ground gradient and even if bonded together like in the basement, there can still be a potential difference. I do not know the size of the place, the grounds may have been tied together, say with 12 guage wire, but it was so long it allowed a little bit of voltage drop. Video is generally 1 volt P-P. That means 100mV is 10 IRE, certainly noticable. Half that would be noticable. Double it and you are getting close to interfering with sync.   All I know is the isolator worked. I did not wiring on the place at all so it is not my problem. Whatever the situation, the guy is an electrician but that does not mean he wored the place. He could have bought it that way.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Oct 31 11:43AM -0700 >"The Central office grounds the positive side of their battery >bank, "   Which means jack shit a couple of miles away.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 03:05PM -0400 bud-- wrote: > electrical inspector recommended electricians not make the ground > connection, then they will not be involved in the lawsuit. I would not > use CSST.)     Yes, I meant ground. I am in so much pain that I wake up screaming, so I don't get much sleep anymore. I don't spot some mistakes before I hit send. :(   Try to find metal water pipes in most of Florida. Mine stops at the tank on the well. That is over 100 feet from where the phone or CATV drops are.     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 03:16PM -0400 bud-- wrote:   > What is the signal voltage on cable?     I don't know about all CATV systems, but the one I did some design work on was based on +10 dBmv at the street to all for up to four sets per drop. +10 dBmv = 3.1623 mV.     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 03:25PM -0400 > >"The Central office grounds the positive side of their battery > >bank, "   > Which means jack shit a couple of miles away.     Sigh. Why don't you sober up, and grow up?     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

bud-- <null@void.com>: Oct 31 03:35PM -0600 On 10/31/2014 1:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:   > Yes, I meant ground. I am in so much pain that I wake up screaming, > so I don't get much sleep anymore. I don't spot some mistakes before I > hit send. :(   "Neural" was actually jurb, not you.

bud-- <null@void.com>: Oct 31 03:37PM -0600 On 10/31/2014 1:16 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:   > I don't know about all CATV systems, but the one I did some design > work on was based on +10 dBmv at the street to all for up to four sets > per drop. +10 dBmv = 3.1623 mV.   Interesting. I would think there would always be a lot more 60Hz noise than that. High pass filter?

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 05:31PM -0400 bud-- wrote:   > Interesting. > I would think there would always be a lot more 60Hz noise than that. > High pass filter?     The lowest RF is channel t-7, with a 7 MHz video carrier. The RF is transformer coupled, and the amplifiers are line powered. The pole mounted transformers put out a 30 (Mostly obsolete by the '80s) or 60 volts AC modified sinewave from a large CVT. The main trunkline can be up to 30 A. The hum problem in CATV is from power supplies modulating the video as capacitors age. There is no AC on the drop to a home, but it is possible in an apartment building or condo where a line extender is installed in the equipment room.     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Oct 31 02:35PM -0400 On Fri, 31 Oct 2014, N_Cook wrote:   > Google-ad income generator? eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, > apparently equivalent to NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with > OCR/translation errors from Japanese original data sheet   There were lots of replacement lines, RCA SK, Motorola HEP, Radio Shack had a small selection, I recall GE did for a while. It was an attempt at providing a universal line, when otherwise getting the part meant dealing with multiple sources. Some were better than others. Radio Shack wsa pretty limited. HEP started out small, and the ICs were mostly Motorola (and they at least aimed it at the "Hobbyist, Experimenter, Professional", so for the first two, "something close" was good enough, and it was more important to be able to get reasonably current ICs in West Podunk, ND than to get it cheap only if you mail ordered. HEP got better with time, but like some of them, the replacements were generally work alikes rather than exact, so the substitution guide would often cross to a similar sort of IC rather than an exact match.   I had various guides, they were useful since it was easier looking up transistor specs and not hving to go through differnet books from different manufacturers. But since the replacement parts were so expensive compared to the original, I couldn't afford the replacement line parts.   ECG and then NTE came later, and offered a higher level of replacement. They were less about workalikes than exact replacements. Each were a much mroe extensive line, which meant a store that stocked them had to carry more items, but at least they all came from the same source. Or I suppose if they didnt' carry it, they could get the item from the distributor fast, and still avoid having to deal with multiple distributors.If you looked up a part in the ECG or NTE guide (that eventually became one and the same), you were getting either the part, or very close to it. Earlier replacement lines would expect you to live with a generally the same type of transistor (though at least those were prime components if you were buying from Motorola), so a lot of devices would cross to the same replacement part. ECG and NTE seemed to try to be a lot closer match, hence the much larger replacement line.   Michael

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 02:31PM -0400 N_Cook wrote:   > > Dan   > So whatever the NTE or CGE label says, the underlying IC would be > original Sanyo/NEC/Harris or whatever of the 1980s or even 1970s?     Not CGE, it was Sylvania's Electronic Components Group. RCA was the first supplier of universal replacements in the '60s, when it could take six months or longer to get an original transistor or diode. GE followed, with some of the worst crap ever sold to a service tech. Workman and ECG followed. NuTone Electronics copied the ECG numbering system. before ECG was sold to Philips. NTE bout the remains of ECG when Philips left the market. The reason for the pricing is because a distributor had to sit on a lot of slow moving inventory. In the '60s & '70s you could pay the price, or lose a customer by having to wait too long.   BTW, the original RCA cross reference was printed on a fold out the same size as their retail tube price list so you could carry it in a shirt pocket.     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

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dave <ricketzz@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 07:54AM -0700 On 10/31/2014 04:57 AM, N_Cook wrote: > eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, apparently equivalent to > NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with OCR/translation errors > from Japanese original data sheet   Only use NTE as a last resort. Digikey, Mouser both ham/experimenter friendly. MCM (Farnell?) good folks too.

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Oct 31 08:35AM -0700 On 10/31/2014, 4:57 AM, N_Cook wrote: > eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, apparently equivalent to > NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with OCR/translation errors > from Japanese original data sheet   NTE parts are real, they simply relabeled existing parts. Probably have a huge inventory of spares, but they did always ask a premium price for these.   They were used in the Radio/TV/VCR repair industry, originally called ECG and they were bought out by NTE.   John :-#)#   -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

jurb6006@gmail.com: Oct 31 08:36AM -0700 In th old days alot o shops used them. I avoided it because I could usuall get te OEM for less. The 123 and 159 for exa,ple were just 2N3904 and 6. I used to joke that you pay more for the bag than the part.   Actually NTE was not first. Their "line" was the same as ECG which was Sylvania, ECG stood for Electronics Components Group while NTE stood for Nu Tone Electronics. Another cheap brand using the same cross reference was ERS, and those were not even as good as the others.   And none of them ever made a part. They simply remarked them, and sometimes didn't even do that. The SK line sold by RCA was actually better quality, and of course RCA mad/makes some semiconductors. I imagine they have access to better ones and can control the quality better. They used a totally different set of numbers though.   In my work, I got to the point where I didn't even bother with part numbers. the application told me what was needed, and for those who say that ain't kosher, I remind you that most shops used ECGs or NTEs which was much worse.   My system was better. For example 2SC1887 replaces 2SC1885 for most line oiutput in RCA NTSC sets of certain years. They are identical except the 1887 is a bit beefier. So I can buy 20 of those and get the discount instead of buying ten 1885s and ten 1887s. Upgrading a line output transistor in the US has been perfectly kosher since about 1976 when it became illegal for the safety of the set to depend on the failure of a seiconductor device. Before then they counted on the transistor failing to keep the HV should certain faults occur which would ake it rise to undesirable levels.   Same with the 2SC1881 replacing the 1879, they are slightly different than the 1885/7, but the same as each other. And then in audio there were the popular pairs to blow the 2SC3280 and 2SA1301. Well of course I gave them 2SC3281 and 2SA1302.   Certain transistors are critical though, bias transistors in amps I like to stick with the original if at all possible, in fact oin most audio when it comes to the audio chain itself. When it comes to voltage regulators, relay drivers etc., it really doesn't matter. But for transistors that actually amplify audio or video, you want the specs really close. That means looking at the spec sheet.   I bought the books in the old days, not I just get them online. I have very little problems finding most replacement parts for old stuff. Alot of people like me started doing the same thing and that pretty much marginalized these replacement lines. And now, lately I needed an FM IC for a Technics receiver and has no choice but to use an NTE, and the thing didn't work right.   No choice at all. I have stayed away from those thing if possible for at least twenty years.

dansabrservices@yahoo.com: Oct 31 08:45AM -0700 I too rarely use NTE unless there is no alternative. That being said however, I do have a large selection in stock of both NTE and ECG components. I often need to use these for anyu germanium replacements.   If you need a specific one that is no longer available, let me know. I may have one or two.   Dan

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Oct 31 04:01PM > I too rarely use NTE unless there is no alternative. That being said however, I do have a large selection in stock of both NTE and ECG components. I often need to use these for anyu germanium replacements.   > If you need a specific one that is no longer available, let me know. I may have one or two.   > Dan   So whatever the NTE or CGE label says, the underlying IC would be original Sanyo/NEC/Harris or whatever of the 1980s or even 1970s?

dave <ricketzz@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 07:41AM -0700 On 10/28/2014 08:40 AM, Michael Black wrote:   > It's murky whether that was the specific cause of the rule or not, and > probably made murkier since it's been forty years since I read about this.   > Michael   Cheap consumer radios are using pretty exotic methods to reduce the mass and the current draw these days. Any oscillators are deep into the chipset.

dave <ricketzz@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 07:45AM -0700 On 10/28/2014 11:11 PM, micky wrote: >> digitally tuned. But I'd think it would "lock" to the statino further up, >> that presumably is stronger at that point than the first station.   >> Michael   The fcc.info link I sent lets you search the FCC database in a friendly gui fashion

dave <ricketzz@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 07:49AM -0700 On 10/29/2014 02:30 AM, Arfa Daily wrote: > shadow' across a large swathe of territory on the 'downstream' side   > Arfa   >>> Michael   An obstruction in the energy field creates Fresnel Zones on the side of the obstruction opposite the antenna. These are alternating peaks higher than normal and dips lower than normal. The distance between the peaks and nulls (Fresnel Zones) is determined by the distance between the antenna and the obstruction.

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"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net>: Oct 30 05:17PM -0400 Danny D. wrote:   > She's brand new to teaching, but, it turns out that classroom > management is a standard problem in these multi-ethnic San Jose > schools.   Well - that's a big part of your problem. Rather than teaching kids things, parents and teachers rally around excuses for what the things exist. I wish you the best - deal with the problems you are creating.     > One teacher uses a bathroom plunger, as his bathroom pass.   Brilliant! Shear stupidity - so why shouldn't everyone else follow suit?   >> mention, an exercise in futility. What does this really accomplish?   > What it (attempts to) accomplish is the reduce undue interruptions of > the classroom environment.   Brain dead thinking. But that's fine - do that kind of thinking where you live. What in the hell do you really think you are solving with this kind of approach?     > jail, if > even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other > friends, if they're clever).   You just keep on letting those kids outsmart you. I'm sure you'll win that way...       > What the pass does, first and foremost, is it discourages such > intents.   Bullshit! Are you and the teachers at that school that stupid as to really believe this? If so - muck in your own mire.   > Also, it allows the teacher to continue teaching, > uninterrupted, as > the students just get up, grab the pass, and return, unannounced.   Really? Do you even think about the things like this that you post?     > something they can leave hidden in the hallway while they > surreptitiously run a'muck about the hallways or outdoors to catch a > smoke or whatever.   Dear Parent...       > Likewise, it prevents multiple kids (from the same classroom anyway) > leaving the room at any one time.   Really? The high paid teacher is this dumb as to not be aware of this syndrome? Really?     > or not. It's like the red sign on an airplane bathroom door showing > it's in use, rather than what we have to do at a McDonalds, which is > to jiggle the doorknob repeatedly to find out if someone is in there.   Yeah - when I was a kid I had a really hard time understanding a locked door - are you really this stupid? How about facilities that accomodate 4 kids at once - where does that fit into your foolish thinking?     > And, being so large (on purpose), the kids, who almost certainly don't > like it, can't lose it easily.   Oh man - that just can't be anymore stupid.     > At the very least, it's objectionable to carry (as you noted), which > would further discourage the unnecessary potty breaks.   Really? What in the hell is the problem you are looking to solve? I think you have a California mindset which just does not think at all.       > Rest assured, this teacher has at least one kid a day out of her 200, > walk out on the class without excuse.   Really? Then fire the teacher. That is her or his responsibility to make sure that kind of thing does not happen. Screw the 200 number - that's a classic over-exageration - how many students in any one class session? The total number is completely meaningless.     > all of which are common through all the classes, as she told me most > of these kids are being weeded out of the system through their > behavior in *all* their classes.   Guess you guys need to improve your school disciplines and forget looking at magic tokens like stupid wood fobs for a key to the boys room. Do you really belive that is going to fix the problems you guys have created in your schools? Really? Are you really that dumb?   > comments on their report cards of "very polite", "always helpful", > "pitches in to volunteer every time I ask", and even once "raises > hand to answer questions too often!".   Good for you! That's what is necessary - not stupid fobs.     > California, they go through 3 semesters of graduate training, to > obtain a preliminary teaching certificate, two semesters of which > have on-the-job training of sorts.   Kudos to you for trying to help a new teacher but don't you see that the problem is so much bigger than that?   > their preliminary teaching certificate cleared. At that point, they > also get tenure (which is kind'a soon, if you ask me), and then > they're bona-fide teachers.   Well - you might want to take the problem up with your school district. You guys created the problem and stupid ideas like wooden fobs is not going to fix that problem.     > training on "classroom management", which I found odd when I saw that > it's the *first* thing they re-train the preliminary-credentialed > teachers on.   Oh well...   > small percentage of the kids (maybe 1/3?) actually care to learn it. > It's a required class for the rest, which they hope to never see > again during the rest of their lives.   We have to remember? Really? Are you that stupid? They are in school. They are there to learn what they are told to be taught. We have to remember? I see the very root of this problem...     > When is the last time you or I graphed a quadratic equation, for > example? Could each of us solve a binomial equation to save our lives? > (Building suspension bridges in the redwoods notwithstanding... :)   Competely irrelevent! We did do it when we were in school. What does it matter at all when the last time was that we did it. I'll tell you that I have used that knowledge throughout my life - though it may not have been on a daily basis - but when I needed it, I could call on it. You are making excuses for dumbing down our already stupid kids even more?   --   -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Oct 30 06:39PM -0400 On 10/30/2014 12:20 PM, Danny D. wrote:   > are common through all the classes, as she told me most of these kids are > being weeded out of the system through their behavior in *all* their > classes.   I've suspected since the beginning that the bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger problem. This supports my guess.   -- . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 30 10:23PM -0400 "Danny D." wrote: > but, all kids will take advantage of a "free pass" out of jail, if > even for only 10 minutes (which they can synchronize with other friends, > if they're clever).     The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom. Problem, solved.     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 30 10:25PM -0400 Stormin Mormon wrote:   > I've suspected since the beginning that the > bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger > problem. This supports my guess.     Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

krw@attt.bizz: Oct 30 10:49PM -0400 On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 22:23:56 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >> if they're clever).   > The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom. >Problem, solved.   When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 01:25AM -0400 > >Problem, solved.   > When I was a kid, the only classrooms with bathrooms were kindergarten > classrooms. I guess it does make sense that they all would now.     It's a lot less disruption to the class. I saw them during the last hurricane, when the building was used as a shelter for the disabled and senior citizens.       -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Mike Marlow" <mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net>: Oct 31 06:14AM -0400 Michael A. Terrell wrote:     > The local high school has a single person restroom in each classroom. > Problem, solved.   How are ya supposed to grab a quick cigarette without getting caught that way?   --   -Mike- mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Oct 31 08:52AM -0400 On 10/30/2014 10:25 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: >> bathroom pass is just a bandaid on a larger >> problem. This supports my guess.   > Parents dumping defective kids on the school system.   CA is noted for the liberal left leaning culture. Very possible the entire school system is run on self esteem, and fragile feelings, instead of old fashioned tried and true.   - . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Oct 31 11:57AM Did they ever exist? Why would some company make IC eqivalents for ICs that were used in 30 year old domestic equipment? I could understand, for keeping ancient industrial equipment going. Or is it just another Google-ad income generator? eg NEC uPC1167 FM radio IC of circa 1980, apparently equivalent to NTE1488, complete with apparent datadsheet with OCR/translation errors from Japanese original data sheet

junebug1701 <junebug1701@gmail.com>: Oct 30 10:33PM -0700 On Thursday, October 30, 2014 8:20:06 AM UTC-5, Robert Macy wrote: > incoming calls: the ring sounded anemic, like a single tinkle, not to be > repeated. Pick up phone, and someone was there?! albeit the connection > sounded like old fashioned long distance.   This reminds me of a strange service call I had when I worked as a Bell System repair technician. It was a rural area and the customer complained that none of her phones would ring, but that she knew somebody was calling whenever her dog howled. Sounded crazy to me, but it turns out that she was on a party line which requires a good earth ground on the third (yellow) wire for the ringers. Well, the unlucky dog was chained to a poorly grounded water pipe which also held the ground clamp and wire for the telephone protector. Whenever she got a call the poor dog got a 90VAC jolt! That's one of the reasons the telcos quit grounding to water pipes in favor of the electrical power neutral.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 01:46AM -0400 junebug1701 wrote: > > repeated. Pick up phone, and someone was there?! albeit the connection > > sounded like old fashioned long distance.   > This reminds me of a strange service call I had when I worked as a Bell System repair technician. It was a rural area and the customer complained that none of her phones would ring, but that she knew somebody was calling whenever her dog howled. Sounded crazy to me, but it turns out that she was on a party line which requires a good earth ground on the third (yellow) wire for the ringers. Well, the unlucky dog was chained to a poorly grounded water pipe which also held the ground clamp and wire for the telephone protector. Whenever she got a call the poor dog got a 90VAC jolt! That's one of the reasons the telcos quit grounding to water pipes in favor of the electrical power neutral.     The reason that they switched was that the NEC required them to. Some fools couldn't tell the difference between a water and a gas pipe.   -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Oct 30 11:27PM -0700 >"The reason that they switched was that the NEC required them to. Some >fools couldn't tell the difference between a water and a gas pipe. "   Um, dude, that is like a really old joke. I mean, it's not like back when you sold your daughters and shit, the telephone was invented at least, but it wasn't yesterday.   Actually all kinds of grounding requirements changed over the last few decades. I know of a few because of the house wiring I've done. And then in the audio/video business. I ran across this guy who had a barter deal with the shop. We sold him a projector for some other work or whatever, and he was having a problem after he had the cable put in.   Whenever he had the cable hooked up the picture had a hum bar, no matter the source. Like on the DVD he played it, had a hum bar unless he disconnected the cable.   Turns out he had two ground rods driven in and for whatever reason there was a ground gradient. A slight ground gradient at power line is not necessarily proof of a fault, depends where they are. And really, we are only talking about interfereing with video which is what, a volt P-P ?   It was enough. Well now in my position I of course advised him but really could not say he was in grave danger or anything so I had him made an antenna isolator.   So basically, the projector we gave him had the third prong and got ground there. All the shit from there as well as the stereo system was on that ground but the cable box (coax ground) was on another, IIRC he said they were like forty feet away.   Another alternative would be to just tell him to cut the fucking ground prong off of all his stuff, but that wouldn't quite be right now would it.   Plus get this, I shit you not, this guy is an electrician ! So if he ever did that in his own house, and something happened, damn.   But the simple antenna isolator was perfectly legal since the box was still grounded by everything else now.   What else would anyone do about that shit ? (and who the hell else gets things this wierd and has to figure the out remotely ?)   Yup, I am happier doing vintage audio. Need a side job though.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 05:10AM -0400 > >"The reason that they switched was that the NEC required them to. Some > >fools couldn't tell the difference between a water and a gas pipe. "   > Um, dude, that is like a really old joke. I mean, it's not like back when you sold your daughters and shit, the telephone was invented at least, but it wasn't yesterday.     It isn't a joke, people actually did it. You wouldn't believe the dangerous crap that the service techs would find on customer sites. Of course, a fool like you would think that a worker being killed by a spark around a gas leak is funny. Just like the former cable TV customer who spliced a plug on his dead cable drop and plugged it into the wall to try to kill someone. Or another who hack sawed into a .750" hardline and connected lamp cord for an illegal cable drop, then wanted to sue the cable company for damaging his TV when the 60 VAC modified sinewave destroyed the tuner.     Just because you turn your offspring into whores, doesn't mean anyone else does it.   -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Oct 31 08:14AM On 30/10/2014 15:48, David Farber wrote: >> normal.   > Thanks for that explanation. Everything seems to be working fine. I'll > reassemble it and stop worrying about it. :-)   I never expected to see a blinking LED inside (nothing seen of them on the outside) an audio amp. Suspecting it may sometimes be possible to end up with a clicking sound coming over the audio, via shared ground routes or whatever - but there are such blinking LEDs in normal operation

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (David Platt): Oct 30 12:01PM -0700 >Hip Hop vs O'Reilly back then. It went on that way for years until the >station changed from Hip Hop to some other format, then the interference >went away.   The station engineer might have been telling the strict truth... it would have taken a spectrum analyzer or modulation meter to be sure.   Commercial FM is generally allowed a +/- 75 kHz carrier deviation. Due to the way FM works, and due to the fact that the station is transmitting a stereo subcarrier (centered on 38 kHz, with its own sidebands going out as much as 15 kHz on either side), the FM station's actual RF "footprint" can easily have significant energy 120 kHz on either side of its nominal carrier frequency. That's more than half-way out to the "alternate" channel center, 200 kHz away. If the station tends to run "loud" (highly compressed audio, cranked all the way up) then the "wide footprint" is likely to be present much or most of the time.   Things can be even worse these days, since many stations are also transmitting in-band/on-channel digital subcarriers which go out even further.   A lot of FM radios/receivers have fairly "broad" intermediate- frequency filters... e.g. one or two crystal filters with 220 kHz or even 250 kHz bandwidth. Such broad receptivity lets almost all of the "desired" station's signal in... and that's good for low-distortion stereo reception since you get the whole stereo subcarrier. Unfortunately, if there's a strong signal on the "alternate" channel (200 kHz away), that signal's outer sidebands will end up getting through the filter, and will probably affect the stereo subcarrier and increase distortion or "break through" into audibility. If you're trying to tune in a weak, distant signal that's on an "adjacent" channel to a strong local (100 kHz away) the problem is even worse.   There are ways to work around this:   - Use an FM tuner which has a narrower IF bandwidth. Better tuners often have a wide/narrow switch setting, with the narrow setting using different (or more) crystal filters with reduced bandwidth - 200, 180, 150, or even 110 kHz.   The narrower filters can eliminate a lot of adjacent- and alternate-channel bleedover. The price is higher distortion (especially in stereo) since the outer FM sidebands of the desired station are also eliminated by the narrower filters.   - Use a directional FM antenna, and aim it in the direction which gives the best results. This may be "aimed towards the desired station" (increasing its relative strength), or "aimed at an angle away from the undesired station" (to put the interfering station in a "null" in the antenna's reception pattern).

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 30 04:36PM -0700 Michael Terrell wrote:   > Adjacent channel interference like that is caused by the IF bandwidth > and the skirt. The IF transformers aren't brick wall, the amplitude > drops away slowly outside the desired bandwidth.     ** FM receivers have multiple stages of IF band limiting making the falloff very sharp outside the needed 200kHz.     That allows a local > station to be strong enough to cause problems.     ** Nope - the FM detector ( ratio or quadrature) is also tuned to the centre of the IF strip and will not demodulate an out of band signal.     .... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 30 04:41PM -0700 William Sommerwerck wrote:   > > Long as a particular band has less width than double the IF frequency, > > no in-band images will occur.   > Did you actually read what I wrote? The second sentence says that.   ** It says NOTHING the sort - Wanker boy.     > In the third sentence, I said "If the LO were //below// the incoming > signal..."   > Do the math: 88.1 minus 10.7 plus 21.4 equals... what? 98.8?   ** Garbage. With the LO at 77.4, the image is at 66.7   The FM broadcast band does not suffer from in-band images long as the IF is 10.7MHz of higher.     ... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 30 04:48PM -0700 O Ian Jackson wrote:   > >They were invariably used as low side oscillators.   > The fact that some what might now be considered 'highly desirable > collectibles' had low-side LOs doesn't mean it became a standard.     ** Never said it was "standard" - just quite common.   Proves you are wrong - sonny boy.           > Not the present FM band. However, in the USA FM started life between 42 > to 50MHz* but this was essentially experimental. After the war, it was > allocated the present band (87.8-107.9 MHz).     ** Huh? What is the relevance of that crap ?       ATC (AM, of course) breaking > through on 97.3MHz (at least on my kitchen radio)! > --   ** So that is your only case?   Piss off fool.     .... Phil

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net>: Oct 30 05:04PM -0700 "Phil Allison" wrote in message news:ba56876f-a7d1-4673-996f-6d468e77e692@googlegroups.com... William Sommerwerck wrote:   > > Long as a particular band has less width than double the IF frequency, > > no in-band images will occur.   > Did you actually read what I wrote? The second sentence says that.     ** It says NOTHING the sort - Wanker boy.   It says exactly that. It's amazing that someone as intelligent as you can't understand plain language.     > In the third sentence, I said "If the LO were //below// the incoming > signal..." > Do the math: 88.1 minus 10.7 plus 21.4 equals... what? 98.8?   ** Garbage. With the LO at 77.4, the image is at 66.7.   Uh... that's right.

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 30 05:20PM -0700 William Sommerwerck wrote:     > > Did you actually read what I wrote? The second sentence says that.   > ** It says NOTHING the sort - Wanker boy.   > It says exactly that.     ** FFS learn to read you autistic idiot.   MY post say there are NO in-band images at all - neither from high nor low side injection of the LO.         > ** Garbage. > With the LO at 77.4, the image is at 66.7.   > Uh... that's right.     ** Wot a thick head.     .... Phil

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 30 10:21PM -0400 Phil Allison wrote:   > That allows a local > > station to be strong enough to cause problems.   > ** Nope - the FM detector ( ratio or quadrature) is also tuned to the centre of the IF strip and will not demodulate an out of band signal.     More Philshit, as always. It's a damned good thing you didn't design and build deep space telemetry equipment. Even business radios used expensive crystal filters to reduce adjacent channel interference, instead of 50 cent IF transformers. Digitally tuned FM receivers can still receive an adjacent channel, but more than a channel away it becomes quite distorted. Go back to hacking old stereos.   -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 30 08:24PM -0700 Michael Terrell wrote:   > > ** Nope - the FM detector ( ratio or quadrature) is also tuned to the centre of the IF strip and will not demodulate an out of band signal.   > More Philshit, as always. It's a damned good thing you didn't design > and build deep space telemetry equipment.     ** Desperate liars resort to abuse when they have no case.     > Even business radios used > expensive crystal filters to reduce adjacent channel interference,   ** Not one bit relevant to *wide band* FM broadcast receivers.     > instead of 50 cent IF transformers.     ** Which, when used in multiples, produce sharp roll ofsf at the skirts of the pass band.     > Digitally tuned FM receivers can still receive an adjacent channel,   ** More irrelevance, it matters not how the LO is tuned.     > but more than a channel away it > becomes quite distorted.     ** Tuned FM detectors are like that.     >Go back to hacking old stereos.     ** Go back to washing dunny floors, you pathetic ass.       .... Phil

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Oct 31 01:44AM -0400 Phil Allison wrote:   > > More Philshit, as always. It's a damned good thing you didn't design > > and build deep space telemetry equipment.   > ** Desperate liars resort to abuse when they have no case.     DING! DING! DING! Whenever you have no clue you start your 'Angry Dumbass Dance', and call people a liar. All you do is prove what a fool you are.     > > Even business radios used > > expensive crystal filters to reduce adjacent channel interference,   > ** Not one bit relevant to *wide band* FM broadcast receivers.     Only if you have the I.Q. of a rusty doorknob.   > > instead of 50 cent IF transformers.   > ** Which, when used in multiples, produce sharp roll ofsf at the skirts of the pass band.     Define sharp. If it is too sharp, it causes distortion in the recovered signal. Each transformer has an insertion loss in the IF stages. FM radios use just enough tuned circuits to get barely acceptable performance. Even the cheap Murata ceramic filters have a sloppy skirt. The only advantage is that they don't need aligned during manufacturing.     Cram your bullshit and look at it on a network analyzer. Oh, that's right. You have no real test equipment, just junk from a '70s TV shop. You want to talk wideband? One of the Telemetry products we manufactured had an IF range from 1 KHz to 20 MHz bandwidth at the -3 dB points. They had to be aligned on a network analyzer, or with a calibrated sweep generator to achieve the proper skirt.   > > Digitally tuned FM receivers can still receive an adjacent channel,   > ** More irrelevance, it matters not how the LO is tuned.   Sigh. More of your stupidity. Digital has no AFC, so it can't be pulled off of center.     > ** Tuned FM detectors are like that.   > >Go back to hacking old stereos.   > ** Go back to washing dunny floors, you pathetic ass.     Whatever the hell that crap means, but I guess that you've heard it all your life from people around you. Read a damned book on receiver design. Analog IF bandwidth is specified at the -3 dB points. That wouldn't be possible without a skirt. Brick wall requires a FIR filter or another digital filter that processes a digitized input. The design I worked on digitized to 50 to 890 MHz range for a 70 MHz IF. That was followed by a pair of FIR filters for the IF and another pair for the output bandwidth.     -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>: Oct 31 12:46AM -0400 >> will >> be appreciated.   >Carefully desolder the parts   Are they soldered to begin with? They're fused, but I've never seen solder. My coffee makers may have been older than this one. .

"hrhofmann@sbcglobal.net" <hrhofmann@sbcglobal.net>: Oct 30 08:59PM -0700 You really need to test the HV before proceeding to replace the magnetron. Do you have a tv repair place anywhere nearby? They would probably be willing to loan you a probe since they do not use them very often any more with solid state displays.

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