Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Nov 29 02:33PM -0500
In article <ovmjjv$jjt$1@dont-email.me>, nospamplease@nonospam.com
says...
> > confidence. BION last time I was so lost, it was late at night and I prayed
> > for half an hour before I got it to work. Much obliged
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmDj6i4pGDQ
There are 2 connectors I often use instead of wire nuts. I am thinking
schthclock is a brand name for wire nuts. One is like in the video
where you just push in the wires. Brand Wall nuts.
The other is WAGO. YOu pull up on a lever, put the wire in and push
the lever back down. They are easy to reuse if you ever need to.
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"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Nov 29 07:48PM
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
news:MPG.3488d590ba9e9f299896b3@news.east.earthlink.net...
In article <ovmjjv$jjt$1@dont-email.me>, nospamplease@nonospam.com
says...
> > prayed
> > for half an hour before I got it to work. Much obliged
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmDj6i4pGDQ
There are 2 connectors I often use instead of wire nuts. I am thinking
schthclock is a brand name for wire nuts. One is like in the video
where you just push in the wires. Brand Wall nuts.
The other is WAGO. YOu pull up on a lever, put the wire in and push
the lever back down. They are easy to reuse if you ever need to.
********************************************
I suspect the OP is referring to these.
In the UK they are commonly known as Choc Block connectors.
http://cpc.farnell.com/hellermanntyton/cs15nt/terminal-block-polyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE
Gareth.
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"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 29 12:20PM -0800
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 2:48:53 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> I suspect the OP is referring to these.
> In the UK they are commonly known as Choc Block connectors.
> http://cpc.farnell.com/hellermanntyton/cs15nt/terminal-block-polyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE
They emphatically *DO NOT* meet the US NEC code for branch-wiring - and would be quite dangerous in such an application. Without seeing the actual situation in front of my eyes, I would not dare to opine on a solution. But, if it were my house, and I could not splice safely in the wall-box, I would bite the bullet and go back to the nearest box or back to the panel. It is *JUST NOT WORTH THE RISK* to do any less. I worked my way through school as an electrician, mostly doing old-work repairs and installations in an old city. A good number of the houses I worked in were first wired within a couple of years of 1913, and I learned the are of the "fish wire" from two experts.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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tabbypurr@gmail.com: Nov 29 12:30PM -0800
> > In the UK they are commonly known as Choc Block connectors.
> > http://cpc.farnell.com/hellermanntyton/cs15nt/terminal-block-polyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE
> They emphatically *DO NOT* meet the US NEC code for branch-wiring - and would be quite dangerous in such an application.
That's just funny. In UK we use those choc blocks almost entirely, and wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a result.
NT
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tschw10117@gmail.com: Nov 29 12:52PM -0800
A lot of people don't know the correct way to use a wire nut. Simply lining up 2 or 3 or 4 wires and twisting the nut on will inevitably result in one or more of the wires not getting tied in tightly, and there is the potential for it to push out, or worse, heat up in use.
The correct way is to twist the wires together, and then take a dikes and cut off at least 1/4" of wire at the end of the twist, preferably at an angle. This forces the wires together and creates a gas tight zone at the cut.
Then twist the wire nut on. Using the correct size wire nut is critical. Too small a wire nut obviously won't twist on, or will leave bare wire exposed. But too large creates the possibility that the wires are not getting compressed in the nut, no "bite" in the threads, and a likelihood that the nut will work loose when the wires are tucked into the box.
It's not rocket science, but doing it right is critical in preventing fires.
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John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Nov 29 12:54PM -0800
> > They emphatically *DO NOT* meet the US NEC code for branch-wiring - and would be quite dangerous in such an application.
> That's just funny. In UK we use those choc blocks almost entirely, and wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a result.
> NT
Context? If we're talking total numbers that wouldn't surprise me as the U.S. is far larger than the U.K. If you mean less electrical fires by percentile I'd like to see a citation.
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Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Nov 29 03:58PM -0500
In article <BaETB.60457$X11.57146@fx20.am4>,
soundserviceleeds@outlook.com says...
> I suspect the OP is referring to these.
> In the UK they are commonly known as Choc Block connectors.
> http://cpc.farnell.com/hellermanntyton/cs15nt/terminal-block-polyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE
Problem with people in different conutries. Different electrical codes
and names used for the same items.
I am in the US. At work one time there was an engineer from England and
he wanted a torch. The mechanics drug a oxygen and gas cylinder torch
with great difficulty to the area. The Englander then explained what he
wanted and it turned out to be a flashlight so he could see in a dark
area.
|
"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Nov 29 01:01PM -0800
> That's just funny. In UK we use those choc blocks almost entirely, and wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a result.
That is what happens when one is a first-user of a technology. Electrical wiring from central (regulated) suppliers on a common scheme began in the US in/around 1911, with major cities joining in the grid through the next ten years or so. Rural Electrification began in earnest in 1936 and by 1940, the 'grid' was available to the entire US.
Regulated mains power to a common standard was not made available to the common people in GB until starting in 1926, making GB about 15 years behind the US, and much slower on the uptake moving forward. Pretty much everything done in the US was brand-new for the first 15 years or so - and the rest of the world learned from it.
Our house was built in 1890, first wired in 1913, and substantially expanded (both the house and the wiring) in 1928. In 2005, the main service was upgraded and grounded wiring extended throughout the house to all branch-circuits and GFCI devices installed in all 'wet' locations - must have cost a fortune!
Squigs - as I leaned to call the through-wire devices you are referring to - are fine if they can be screwed down as a terminal strip (and they are approved in that application. But as individual joints, they are quite dangerous. Wire nuts, properly installed, are far tougher and make a far better connection than a single screw bearing on two conductors in a small opening. Twist together first (good mechanical connection), cut square or on a very slight angle, then install the correctly sized wire-nut, very tight. I have done (easily) tens of thousands, and I carried at least five different sizes on any given job. Were signal-wiring involved, that would be four more sizes.
Terry: I use linesman's pliers (this one: https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-349-Premium-Wiremaster-Linesman/dp/B00004SBD5 ) and I still have the pair I purchased in 1970 at age 18. Dikes, not so much.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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tschw10117@gmail.com: Nov 29 01:50PM -0800
Agreed -- it's a better tool (and a better term) and I have several aged pairs myself. Dikes of course implies a cutter-only tool and I usually use mine because sadly, most of the cutting edges in my linesman pliers are badly chewed up from misuse (mostly not by me).
Terry
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Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Nov 30 09:00AM +1100
> Agreed -- it's a better tool (and a better term) and I have several aged pairs myself. Dikes of course implies a cutter-only tool and I usually use mine because sadly, most of the cutting edges in my linesman pliers are badly chewed up from misuse (mostly not by me).
I keep meaning to replace mine, bought in 1975,
which have a large divet out of the cutters from
where my father cut through a live 240V 15A cable.
It was adjacent to one he'd deactivated :).
The wire fuse blew the ceramic holder out of the
socket and across the room (the fuse box lid was
open at the time). I still use them most days,
all the same.
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"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Nov 29 10:37PM
wrote in message
news:e5a8fc20-2faa-4dee-a379-09664f31297d@googlegroups.com...
On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 2:48:53 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> I suspect the OP is referring to these.
> In the UK they are commonly known as Choc Block connectors.
> http://cpc.farnell.com/hellermanntyton/cs15nt/terminal-block-polyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE
They emphatically *DO NOT* meet the US NEC code for branch-wiring - and
would be quite dangerous in such an application. Without seeing the actual
situation in front of my eyes, I would not dare to opine on a solution. But,
if it were my house, and I could not splice safely in the wall-box, I would
bite the bullet and go back to the nearest box or back to the panel. It is
*JUST NOT WORTH THE RISK* to do any less. I worked my way through school as
an electrician, mostly doing old-work repairs and installations in an old
city. A good number of the houses I worked in were first wired within a
couple of years of 1913, and I learned the are of the "fish wire" from two
experts.
Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
********************************************
Interesting.
Can you specify what exactly is the problem with using these connectors?
Gareth.
|
whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Nov 29 03:48PM -0800
> I got a switch that needs replacing but I'm afraid because the last time I
> replaced it the wires were old and the tips broke and i had almost no wire to
> use. An electrician chum told me about scothclock
Older wiring (some with cloth insulation) has problems with reworking.
3M sells 'Highland' wire nuts, and 'Scotchlock' crimp or IDC connectors,
which (if used properly) could meet code requirements for wall switch wiring.
There's spring push-in items that are easier to use, and quite compact (which
can be important when the box is tight), that can attach a suitable pigtail
for that wire that broke off too short.
Hellerman makes this one:
<http://wpc.ac62.edgecastcdn.net/00AC62/drawings/XWC-HPR013CSU_01.pdf>
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"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Nov 30 12:03AM
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
news:MPG.3488e984cb52cbc9896b5@news.east.earthlink.net...
In article <BaETB.60457$X11.57146@fx20.am4>,
soundserviceleeds@outlook.com says...
> I suspect the OP is referring to these.
> In the UK they are commonly known as Choc Block connectors.
> http://cpc.farnell.com/hellermanntyton/cs15nt/terminal-block-polyethylene-16a/dp/CB15474?CMP=KNC-GUK-CPC-GEN-SHOPPING-HELLERMANNTYTON-CB15474&gross_price=true&mckv=swQRURloc_dc|pcrid|72935675177|kword||match||plid||pid|CB15474|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg5WglMbk1wIVzLztCh05NQvYEAQYASABEgLGEfD_BwE
Problem with people in different conutries. Different electrical codes
and names used for the same items.
I am in the US. At work one time there was an engineer from England and
he wanted a torch. The mechanics drug a oxygen and gas cylinder torch
with great difficulty to the area. The Englander then explained what he
wanted and it turned out to be a flashlight so he could see in a dark
area.
****************************************
What's an "Englender"?
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Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Nov 30 11:06AM +1100
On 30/11/17 11:03, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> wanted and it turned out to be a flashlight so he could see in a dark
> area.
> What's an "Englender"?
You tell us. You're the first to mention the word.
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"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Nov 30 12:21AM
"Clifford Heath" wrote in message news:tYHTB.452$tM1.129@fx34.iad...
On 30/11/17 11:03, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> wanted and it turned out to be a flashlight so he could see in a dark
> area.
> What's an "Englender"?
You tell us. You're the first to mention the word.
********************
Yeah, well, typo.
The sheer fact that someone thinks "Englander" is a word speaks volumes.
Gareth.
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Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Nov 30 12:14PM +1100
On 30/11/17 11:21, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> ********************
> Yeah, well, typo.
> The sheer fact that someone thinks "Englander" is a word speaks volumes.
But not, apparently, this volume:
<https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Englander>
Ok, I picked an American dictionary. But "New Englander" is
a term that includes the word, so it's definitely a word.
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tabbypurr@gmail.com: Nov 29 07:10PM -0800
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 20:54:37 UTC, John-Del wrote:
> > That's just funny. In UK we use those choc blocks almost entirely, and wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a result.
> > NT
> Context? If we're talking total numbers that wouldn't surprise me as the U.S. is far larger than the U.K. If you mean less electrical fires by percentile I'd like to see a citation.
Percentage. It was a while ago I looked it up, US is known for its worse stats on infant mortality and electrical fires. It's way too late to look them up right now.
NT
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tabbypurr@gmail.com: Nov 29 07:20PM -0800
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 21:01:49 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:
NT:
> > That's just funny. In UK we use those choc blocks almost entirely, and wire nuts are banned here. We have less electrical fires then the US as a result.
> That is what happens when one is a first-user of a technology. Electrical wiring from central (regulated) suppliers on a common scheme began in the US in/around 1911, with major cities joining in the grid through the next ten years or so. Rural Electrification began in earnest in 1936 and by 1940, the 'grid' was available to the entire US.
> Regulated mains power to a common standard was not made available to the common people in GB until starting in 1926, making GB about 15 years behind the US, and much slower on the uptake moving forward. Pretty much everything done in the US was brand-new for the first 15 years or so - and the rest of the world learned from it.
The unified electrical standard didn't complete here until about 1960. It was a slow business.
> Our house was built in 1890, first wired in 1913, and substantially expanded (both the house and the wiring) in 1928. In 2005, the main service was upgraded and grounded wiring extended throughout the house to all branch-circuits and GFCI devices installed in all 'wet' locations - must have cost a fortune!
1928 wiring in 2005 would be unthinkable here. Haven't seen anything that old since one exceptional commercial property in the 80s. It was an instant inspection condemnation.
> Squigs - as I leaned to call the through-wire devices you are referring to - are fine if they can be screwed down as a terminal strip (and they are approved in that application. But as individual joints, they are quite dangerous.
I'm not buying it at all. We use them all the time.
> Wire nuts, properly installed, are far tougher and make a far better connection than a single screw bearing on two conductors in a small opening. Twist together first (good mechanical connection), cut square or on a very slight angle, then install the correctly sized wire-nut, very tight. I have done (easily) tens of thousands, and I carried at least five different sizes on any given job. Were signal-wiring involved, that would be four more sizes.
They were banned here in '55, but I lack further info on that.
NT
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tabbypurr@gmail.com: Nov 29 07:21PM -0800
On Wednesday, 29 November 2017 22:37:50 UTC, Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Interesting.
> Can you specify what exactly is the problem with using these connectors?
> Gareth.
They are occasionally found loose. Whether that's due to bad installation or working loose who knows.
NT
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Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Nov 30 02:46AM -0500
> wire (I didn't last time) but I'd like to see some videos to build up my
> confidence. BION last time I was so lost, it was late at night and I prayed
> for half an hour before I got it to work. Much obliged
Th proper name is 3M Scotchlocks:
<https://www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-b-1&q=3m+scotch+locks&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih4a3W5uXXAhUPNd8KHX4dApsQvwUIJigA&biw=1434&bih=908>
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John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Nov 30 05:14AM -0800
> > Context? If we're talking total numbers that wouldn't surprise me as the U.S. is far larger than the U.K. If you mean less electrical fires by percentile I'd like to see a citation.
> Percentage. It was a while ago I looked it up, US is known for its worse stats on infant mortality and electrical fires. It's way too late to look them up right now.
> NT
Well, I'm too lazy to look it up myself...
Assuming the citation was correct, there could be a of factors. The first is one Peter pointed out; the U.S. was wired early and without codes. A lot of that wiring still exists and even if thoughtfully wired, is still a hundred years old. Back in the 80s we rented a store front that was still cap and tube wiring from the 1920s, and the new owner wanted us to sign a triple net lease (which means we were liable for any repairs to this late 19th century building, including the wiring and plumbing). Both still were serviceable but we left and bought our own building.
The large city closest to me uses special equipment for detecting electrical fires. The city includes a large percentage of homes that were built in the late 1800s through the early 1900s. The fire department has infrared scanners that they use to detect heat behind walls during a survey of old wiring.
Second thought is the definition of electrical fire and the cause. I don't know if there's an international watchdog commission that compiles the data or if the data is submitted by each country independently. Perhaps the definition of what exactly constitutes electrical fires.
I don't know about the U.K., but we have a lot of dullards here that run extension cords to high wattage electrical supplemental heaters for when they can't afford a tank of heating oil or propane. So I wonder how many of these failures are from external misuse or internal infrastructure failures. I can't tell you how many times I've pointed out worn out wall sockets or melted three way extension cords that were ready to burst into flames to customers when doing home service.
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