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jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 30 05:50AM -0700 Got this nice 0-140 5 amp variac that started arcing. Iunplugged it immediately of course.   It had been repaired before. When I first got it the wire feeding from the AC input had pulled the turn of the winding off, soldering took care of that. There was a little catch right at that point but it wasn't bad. Months, maybe about a year ago that "catch" got worse and I reworked it, tightening up the winding and making sure it was smooth. It was fine.   Then about last week I was using it to boost voltage to a car battery charger to feed something a tad over its usual output, which was working fine. And no overload at all, the drain was about 2.5 amps at 16 volts or so, so that was well within spec for the variac. Later I turned it down because it was time to test the UUT with lower voltage. (this is an intermittent overheating problem in the DC/DC convertor of an AC/DC version of the Tek 422)   Then I noticed that at the end, above where the line goes in, it was arcing between the windings.   I don't have nor want to find the magnet wire to rewind or partially rewind this thing. Is there a chemical solution to this problem ? (pun intended)   Perhaps our resident thaumaturge Jeff Lieberman has some idea, or anyone. I don't use it enough to buy another one but when I need variable AC I need variable AC. I might have to add some boost/buck transformers to my newly kludged bohungus isolation transformer. It even has a fan.   http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/7/71823/badazzis01.jpg   As you can see there is plenty of room for a few smaller transformers, but I would need them to be able to handle the current of the main one, right ? Otherwise an overload could be a catastrophe, and I have had enough of those in my life.   But is there a way to fix the variac ? I'm thinking a solvent, then enamel, then filing it down for the wiper to contact and ??? Maybe. I don't know if I can find such chemicals, or if they even exist. And how would I keep the windings on place once they're stripped ?   Any ideas ?   Also, I am not all that worried about the boost end of it, ans I am not concerned with ground faults because I can just always run it off isolation. It will almost fit n that cabinet but not with the knob in front, and I don't want it on top. But then it might be ready for the dump anyway.   Thanks in advance.

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 30 06:04AM -0700 > Any ideas ?   > Also, I am not all that worried about the boost end of it, ans I am not concerned with ground faults because I can just always run it off isolation. It will almost fit n that cabinet but not with the knob in front, and I don't want it on top. But then it might be ready for the dump anyway.   > Thanks in advance.   Variacs are never ready for the dump. If you can get all traces of the carbon out from the gap, you're most of the way there. If not, and I expect you won't, I'd cut the wire and unwind half a turn each side. Put a turn of new wire on & solder its ends to the old ends where they're not in the way. With 2 half turns out the way it should be easier to remove any carbon.     NT

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 30 06:17AM -0700 http://www.directindustry.com/prod/electrolube/product-6210-169678.html?utm_source=ProductDetail&utm_medium=Web&utm_content=SimilarProduct&utm_campaign=CA   Used its equivalent - it works.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Apr 30 05:33PM +0100 > Any ideas ?   > Also, I am not all that worried about the boost end of it, ans I am not concerned with ground faults because I can just always run it off isolation. It will almost fit n that cabinet but not with the knob in front, and I don't want it on top. But then it might be ready for the dump anyway.   > Thanks in advance.   Does it have the correct width of brush? it must not be able to contact more than 2 turns at any time. The proper ones look suspiciously unmanly for the job.

Ivan Vegvary <ivanvegvary@gmail.com>: Apr 29 11:41PM -0700 Fixing old car battery charger. Do not want to buy new one because I need the 6 volt capability for my vintage motorcycle.   Need to replace a "button style" (Motorola MR2506) rectifier with a "stud mounted" one (Motorola 1N1190A) The stud mounted on has a higher rating. Question: Data sheet says button battery cathode marked by "dot". Dot no longer visible on installed parts. Is it safe to assume that the wires from the transformer secondary lead to the Anode and the body of the "button style" (cathode) is pressed into the aluminum plate? Thank you for your help.

Mike S <mscir@yahoo.com>: Apr 30 12:05AM -0700 On 4/29/2018 11:41 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:   > Need to replace a "button style" (Motorola MR2506) rectifier with a "stud mounted" one (Motorola 1N1190A) The stud mounted on has a higher rating. > Question: Data sheet says button battery cathode marked by "dot". Dot no longer visible on installed parts. Is it safe to assume that the wires from the transformer secondary lead to the Anode and the body of the "button style" (cathode) is pressed into the aluminum plate? > Thank you for your help.   Do you know the make and model of the charger?

Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com>: Apr 30 04:02PM +0800 On 30/04/2018 2:41 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:   > Need to replace a "button style" (Motorola MR2506) rectifier with a "stud mounted" one (Motorola 1N1190A) The stud mounted on has a higher rating. > Question: Data sheet says button battery cathode marked by "dot". Dot no longer visible on installed parts. Is it safe to assume that the wires from the transformer secondary lead to the Anode and the body of the "button style" (cathode) is pressed into the aluminum plate? > Thank you for your help.   Only 1 transformer wire goes to the diode, the other elsewhere probably an output terminal.

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Apr 30 04:34AM -0700 On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 2:41:26 AM UTC-4, Ivan Vegvary wrote:   > Need to replace a "button style" (Motorola MR2506) rectifier with a "stud mounted" one (Motorola 1N1190A) The stud mounted on has a higher rating. > Question: Data sheet says button battery cathode marked by "dot". Dot no longer visible on installed parts. Is it safe to assume that the wires from the transformer secondary lead to the Anode and the body of the "button style" (cathode) is pressed into the aluminum plate? > Thank you for your help.   The couple I putzed around with had two rectifiers. If there's another, check that. In any case, the cathode should go towards the positive lead.

Ivan Vegvary <ivanvegvary@gmail.com>: Apr 30 05:32AM -0700 Mike, the model is a Schauer CR612 2 button diodes. Case bonded to copper plate, lead goes to xformer. On replacement diode (1N1190A) case is cathode.

Ivan Vegvary <ivanvegvary@gmail.com>: Apr 30 05:39AM -0700 Reilly, both diodes have a removable lead going to the xformer. The bodies are press fit into a copper plate. Do I simply unplug and check for current direction with ohmeter?

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 30 06:00AM -0700 On Monday, 30 April 2018 07:41:26 UTC+1, Ivan Vegvary wrote:   > Need to replace a "button style" (Motorola MR2506) rectifier with a "stud mounted" one (Motorola 1N1190A) The stud mounted on has a higher rating. > Question: Data sheet says button battery cathode marked by "dot". Dot no longer visible on installed parts. Is it safe to assume that the wires from the transformer secondary lead to the Anode and the body of the "button style" (cathode) is pressed into the aluminum plate? > Thank you for your help.   can you not work it out by following wires & using a multimeter? Old chargers are exceedingly simple.     NT

jaugustine@verizon.net: Apr 30 08:08AM -0400 Hi, Recently my electric meter was replaced with a "Smart Meter". I realized that it must have surge protection for it's sensitive electronics.   Does this surge protection also help protect what is inside my house? Note: I have many surge protectors in various outlets.   Thank You in advance, John

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Apr 30 01:24PM +0100 > Thank You in advance, John   Depends what you mean by surge, loss of neutral in the local 3-phase supply, lightning strike on a local supply line or transformer, or a more distant lightning strike.

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 30 05:58AM -0700 > Recently my electric meter was replaced with a "Smart Meter". > I realized that it must have surge protection for it's sensitive > electronics.   why? Most PSUs don't.   > Does this surge protection also help protect what is inside > my house? Note: I have many surge protectors in various > outlets.   then you've spent your money adding a fire risk with no gain.     NT

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Apr 29 03:50PM -0700 On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 9:30:31 PM UTC-7, Mike S wrote: > On 4/15/2018 8:30 PM, mike wrote:   > I was thinking of building a simple voltage/current regulator, and > wondering how much current would be spent in the ct.   Yeah, for battery powered gizmos, that's important. The easy solution is a funny chip that has a builtin current regulator, and has (as well as current limit) thermal protection (when mounted thermally to the LED parts).   Look on eBay for AMC7135 (about 1W delivered to an LED, use two or three in parallel for higher power lamps).. This is a good solution for a 4.2V battery input, which a power-wasting resistor can never improve on. Alas, battery and LED options must be driven by the choice of such a chip.

Mike S <mscir@yahoo.com>: Apr 29 11:12PM -0700 On 4/29/2018 3:50 PM, whit3rd wrote: > for a 4.2V battery input, which a power-wasting resistor can never > improve on. Alas, battery and LED options must be driven by the > choice of such a chip. $3 for 10! 10pcs AMC7135 350mA LED driver SOT-89 Thank you!

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Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Apr 26 01:45PM -0500 On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 23:41:18 -0500, Fox's Mercantile wrote:   > And because I have way too much free time, I'm configuring five Cisco > 7940G two-line phones.   Well, reading some Asterisk forum messages, I decided to steer away from any Cisco gear, worried about license issues. There are TONS of other phone makes that don't want licenses to use gear you have BOUGHT. I'm using Snom phones, very basic, but do all I need them to do.   Jon

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Apr 26 02:33PM -0500 On 4/26/18 1:45 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > phone makes that don't want licenses to use gear you have BOUGHT. I'm > using Snom phones, very basic, but do all I need them to do.   > Jon   These are the same forums where some self appointed asshole will tell you that Cisco phones are shit because THEY don't know how to set them up.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Apr 26 09:43PM -0500 Fox's Mercantile wrote:     > These are the same forums where some self appointed asshole will > tell you that Cisco phones are shit because THEY don't know how > to set them up.   Well, ANYTHING you read on the internet can be the result of ignorance, or even a hidden agenda! You have to take that for granted!   But, I can usually find useful info on how to get almost anything working after just a few articles.   Jon

"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Apr 26 08:07PM +0100 "pfjw@aol.com" wrote in message news:723dd4df-56ae-480d-8492-b353ee8ac80d@googlegroups.com...   On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 2:21:55 PM UTC-4, Gareth Magennis wrote:   > What is it?   > Gareth.   It is a 'mistake' - pure and simple, nothing exotic at all.   "National" as distinct from National Union (NU, later, Philco) was a rebrander of tubes, and once upon a time, the house brand for a number of retail tube sellers including Richardson Electronics. Much of their stock came from surplus, pulls and culls from the actual manufacturers and in point of-fact sold with no further testing than fitting in the appropriate box after relabeling.   What you have is a tube getting mixed into a lot, scrubbed, painted and boxed, and sent off into the world with no further thought.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA       ************************************     That starts to make sense.   If I have a tube marked 12AT7 in a glass envelope much bigger than any 12A()7 I have ever seen, and that tube produces curves with double the current expected at all voltages/bias points, then that tube cannot be a 12AT7.     I didn't know that about the National brand. Thanks.       Gareth.

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"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 25 09:45AM -0700 > >"Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters. "   > AHA, so that filament is already burning pretty hot then right ? I see.   No, they don't. The emitter is a solid cylinder of Barium Oxide with a (usually) copper filament inside it. There are other Barium salts used as well, but no Thorium.   "Bright Emitter" magnetrons are used mostly for industrial heating applications - not hardly in what you have in your kitchen - even an old Amana, or Litton. The cutting-edge of magnetrons is in making more compact and shorter-wave (high-resolution) radars. Neat stuff going on there.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 25 11:05AM -0700 On Wednesday, 25 April 2018 17:21:29 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote: NT   > >"Picking the first random ES design I see 475v dc bias. "   > According to RCA's RC30 the peak pulse plate voltage it rated 5,000 volts. Without reading all the details this is of course with negative voltage on G1, it is the retrace pulse for the yoke and rectified for HV. So a pair stacked SESAPP would yield 2,000 volts peak at best. Bridged, of course 5,000 volts. I'm fairly sure most ESLs need more than that. Without going to transmitter tubes I think that is about the highest voltage to be had except in a HV shub regulator such as a 6BK4. Those are good for 27,000 volts but at 5,000 volts will only pass 750 uA. I think that only works out to about 16 watts. Unless ESLs lose a ton of power in the internal transformer that will not do. The book doesn't give plate dissipation but the tube s designed with the anode away from the glass and they do get red hot and work just fine. It is not impossible though, first of all with that topology, triodes should be easier to deal with. It would be a matter of a bunch of them in parallel which would cost more, but a true audiophile doesn't care.   you already know that some ESes run at under 1kV, and the once mildly popular ES tweeters ran direct off ordinary audio amp valve anodes. But you can build a megavolter if you want.       > In light of that, when I replace the cap in this 1992 Litton, what about using a higher value to squeeze a few more watts out of it ? Is that too dangerous or otherwise not feasible ? To me, it is damn hard to have too much power, you just use less time, and since this doesn't ave real power control as far as I know, it just cycles anyway. Of course it might already have the biggest value on practice because it is a fairly large unit and I remember it had alot of power when it was new. We had to get used to it, it wasn't like the elcheapos. I would up the cp value for decent results but if it is going to burn something up because of it I'll leave it as designed.   > >"Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters. "   > AHA, so that filament is already burning pretty hot then right ? I see.   Nuke magnetrons run red hot. I wouldn't want to heat them even further. I used to have a nuke that had its magnetron on show, no cover at all between it & the cooking cavity.   The HV cap doesn't affect filament power of course.     NT

Chuck <ch@dejanews.net>: Apr 25 04:17PM -0500 On Wed, 25 Apr 2018 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >Does not seem to be much Thorium involved??   >> Peter Wieck >> Melrose Park, PA The filaments in the finals in WWII tank transmitters ran white hot. Had an early 20s Crosley radio which didn't have cathodes and the filaments glowed orange. (RCA WD11s)

Chuck <ch@dejanews.net>: Apr 25 04:22PM -0500 >I had some ideas for electrostatic speakers, could have worked but I found out it had been tried. I guess it wasn't worth the trouble sonically. I was going to take some 6MJ6sw or other horizontal output tubes and run them stacked and bridged to eliminate all the transformers, making it DC coupled. I think I would have had to run them stacked in series (like an Ampzilla) to get the required voltage. not a cheap undertaking but neither are ESLs in the first place.   >Ever see the schematic for the ESL-63s ? Thing has a delay line with several taps. It is said that the sound is like it is coming from behind the speaker, that's probably why.   >Some say those Maggies lack bass. I found them not to be "heavy" by any stretch, bit not really lacking. For my use I would have used subwoofers with them, but I am a bass freak.   Used to work on Quad ESL-63s. They sounded great but couldn't be played at high levels. When they arced from being over driven or moisture incursion the damage could be pretty extensive.

bruce2bowser@gmail.com: Apr 25 08:12PM -0700 On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 4:14:03 AM UTC-4, GS wrote: > > Stretch over the active face of each cart with a drop of > > meths/denatured-alcahol in each balloon and store on a ledge with balloons dangling.   > My Canon I hardly use. It just uses ink even while off.   There. Now. Footing the bill of some nameless, faceless corporation wasn't that bad after all, was it?

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 26 05:41AM -0700 On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 5:17:33 PM UTC-4, Chuck wrote:   > The filaments in the finals in WWII tank transmitters ran white hot. > Had an early 20s Crosley radio which didn't have cathodes and the > filaments glowed orange. (RCA WD11s)   Transmitter tubes do tend to run hot. Similar to larger mercury rectifier tubes. In some cases, those had to be shielded (enclosed) due to UV emissions. Back in the day, I ran a 35mm projection set-up that used carbon-arc lights. They were driven by mercury rectifier tubes about 10" tall and in metal enclosures against the UV.   But standard receiving tubes, not so much. And modern microwave oven magnetrons, not at all.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Apr 26 11:18AM -0400 In article <56cad77f-1bbd-48e9-8259-4e86dca8fc76@googlegroups.com>, peterwieck33@gmail.com says...   > But standard receiving tubes, not so much. And modern microwave oven magnetrons, not at all.   > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   As most transmitting tubes are only about 75% or less efficent, they will run hot. A 1000 watt input tube will send out maybe 750 watts best case, usually less, that is 250 watts or more heating the tube not counting the filiment power.   If you do not think a receiving tube is hot, grab a power output tube of an old All American 5 AM receiver, or for that mater, a 6aq5 or similar in other receivers audio output stages with your fingers.

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Apr 25 11:41PM -0500 And because I have way too much free time, I'm configuring five Cisco 7940G two-line phones.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

"Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Apr 25 07:21PM +0100 Found 2 12AT7 valves inside a Fender (Evil) Twin today.   Both branded 12AT7, National, made in USA.   Except one is way bigger than the other one.   http://i67.tinypic.com/fc0ehi.jpg       The bigger one has a plate structure some 1.75 times taller than that of the smaller one, yet both are apparently 12AT7.     On my valve tester, the larger valve traces showed approximately twice the current of the smaller one. The curves basically look like this is a double current 12AT7.       What is it?         Gareth.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 25 11:34AM -0700 On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 2:21:55 PM UTC-4, Gareth Magennis wrote:   > What is it?   > Gareth.   It is a 'mistake' - pure and simple, nothing exotic at all.   "National" as distinct from National Union (NU, later, Philco) was a rebrander of tubes, and once upon a time, the house brand for a number of retail tube sellers including Richardson Electronics. Much of their stock came from surplus, pulls and culls from the actual manufacturers and in point of-fact sold with no further testing than fitting in the appropriate box after relabeling.   What you have is a tube getting mixed into a lot, scrubbed, painted and boxed, and sent off into the world with no further thought.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Apr 25 08:16PM -0700 Gareth Magennis wrote:   > The bigger one has a plate structure some 1.75 times taller than that of the > smaller one, yet both are apparently 12AT7.   ** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12AT7   Nothing to worry about, the shape and size of plate structures of common twin triodes vary a lot.       .... Phil

"~misfit~" <shaun.at.pukekohe@gmail.com>: Apr 26 01:22PM +1200 Once upon a time on usenet Mike S wrote: > http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29465446   > The Hidden Earth: Undersea Mountains by the Thousands > http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/10/07/geography_thousands_of_undersea_mountains_discovered_via_satellite.html   Interesting, thanks. -- Shaun.   "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

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tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 24 09:51AM -0700 On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 15:23:15 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote: NT:   > >"Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk. "   > The turntable is actually a cheap way out of real engineering.   it's sound engineering   > Microwaves without them "stir" the waves with a reflector at the top which is motor driven, usually off the fan and some of them just use the air flow to blow them into turning.   yes, with abysmally uneven cooking as the result.     > Now if you have a microwave with both, there's a good one and I believe   yes, those are best for cooking evenness. Of course it still doesn't counter the tendency for things to be boiling on the outside & ice in the centre.     NT

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 24 09:55AM -0700 > >"But the newest one knows the difference between three different kinds of popcorn, knows how to actually 'bake' a potato, or even three of them, and will also defrost without parboiling."   > I can do that by using it right. I can also adjust the car seats and mirrors myself, turn the courtesy lights on and off myself. I'm just a dinosaur I guess,   probably a great feature for the truly stupid, and certainly there are such folk. To me all that is just junk, bad design.     NT

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 24 11:32AM -0700 To which I add the differences between the average tube-based Euro radio made between say.... 1950 and 1980, and the average American tube radio of the same era.   Euro radio:   a) Never use one part when four-or-more would do. b) Let's make the controls very, very fussy, with lots of moving parts. c) Let's make the chassis an integral part of the cabinet (case) including wires, springs, tuning mechanisms and speakers. d) Let's make services as simple as changing a dial lamp the work of several hours. e) And after all that, let's make just about every radio look the same, but make very sure that there are no interchangeable parts but-for the tubes - and not all of those.   American Radio: a) Five (5) tubes, exceptionally, sometimes six (6). b) If we can make one part do five things, go for it! c) Who needs a power-transformer? d) Let's let the industrial designers go nuts. Colors? Sure. Shapes? Whatever can be molded. e) Let's all make all our radios from a palette of perhaps two dozen interchangeable parts in all, including tubes.   And so it goes. Our oldest microwave, now 12 years old, is a GE countertop that sits on our third floor and is used by a couple of seminary students we are sponsoring. Every day. They keep it sort-of-clean such that I have to power-wash it maybe twice a year. I remember paying $50 for it as a direct-purchase from GE as part of their bulk-buyer program.   Our newest is an over-stove Frigidaire at the summer house, at about 6 years, used during the summers only, and then only lightly. Does the trick and as a vent-hood and stove light is not at all bad. More features than we would normally get, but we purchased it as a 'remainder' from a general contractor at the end of a large project. NIB, but it had sat on the site for two years. No issues, and at $75, a bargain.   The middle one is, at 8 years, the most feature-laden, a Panasonic countertop model that knows the difference between one and three Idaho potatoes when asked to bake them, and between 'regular', 'diet' and 'jumbo' popcorn packages, without being told. At 1,200 watts, it will cook. The point is not that it has these features, but that having the features is a way of accident avoidance. Sure, I know how many minutes each type of popcorn should take, but by hitting a single button, the chances of mis-entry are reduced. And so forth.   A poor workman blames his tools, but a good one picks the right tool for the job and relies upon it.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Chuck <ch@dejanews.net>: Apr 24 02:53PM -0500 On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 09:10:59 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >I keep 3a, 4ax, 28, M5 and Athenas from AR. As well as a pair of TSW-110s at the summer house.   >Peter Wieck >Melrose Park, PA   I heard somewhere recently that Jim Winey is not doing so well. Love his speakers and since i just moved back to MN., I hope to visit the factory again in the near future.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 01:45PM -0700 >"Magnepan. Great Bear Lake, MN"   Friend of mine had a p[air of MG-1 (I think A) and they were pretty damn good. He sold them mainly due to size and the fact that he could make money on them, he got them for $ 100. The guy he bought them from said they rattled at high volume, we figured we would have to work on them, I looked it up, there are things to glue etc. on them. But we took them up to about 100 WPC with alot bass and they were fine at that level, and the seller had guess what - bigger pair of Maggies.   In his room they actually sounded better backwards. (Boseapans ? lol) Don't know where the highs were coming from but they came, it the HF driver also bipolar ? I would guess so.   Speaking of planars, I would like to at least hear a pair of Quad ESL-63s. There's something I might buy if I hit tho lotto, not a new car for sure. But I don't play because it is a sucker bet.   I had some ideas for electrostatic speakers, could have worked but I found out it had been tried. I guess it wasn't worth the trouble sonically. I was going to take some 6MJ6sw or other horizontal output tubes and run them stacked and bridged to eliminate all the transformers, making it DC coupled. I think I would have had to run them stacked in series (like an Ampzilla) to get the required voltage. not a cheap undertaking but neither are ESLs in the first place.   Ever see the schematic for the ESL-63s ? Thing has a delay line with several taps. It is said that the sound is like it is coming from behind the speaker, that's probably why.   Some say those Maggies lack bass. I found them not to be "heavy" by any stretch, bit not really lacking. For my use I would have used subwoofers with them, but I am a bass freak.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 01:55PM -0700 >>"them into turning.   >yes, with abysmally uneven cooking as the result. "   Some of them weren't all that bad. Chernobyl wasn't bad, and the one at the shop wasn't bad, but then those were not $ 59 specials either. They were BIG.   >"Of course it still doesn't counter the tendency for things to be boiling on the outside & ice in the centre. "   Yup, people think they cook from the inside out but that is an old Husband's tale. They heat the water in the food.   And there are no power levels, the supposed power levels are just duty cycle turning the magnetron on and off. (I wonder if it accelerates cathode stripping) I only saw one microwave with 2 actual power levels and it was ancient. It actually had an extra tap on the primary of the power transformer to cut the voltage. I don't remember but I assume it would have to have a separate filament transformer, but back when they were willing to put more than ten bucks into a $ 300 item we got things like that.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 02:05PM -0700 >"probably a great feature for the truly stupid, and certainly there are such folk. "   I used to wonder what went through some people's mind, but I wonder no more. NOTHING goes through their mind.   I used to flip some cars for extra money. (back when there was such a thing as extra money) So I have this shitcan on the paper. Little Dodge Omni had needed a clutch. The ad said "4-cylinder, 4 door, 4 speed, $ 400. People cal and ask "Do it have a cassette ?".   No, it has a 400 disc changer and a 2,000 watt competition stereo system with bluetooth which hasn't even been invented yet, when would you like to come and test drive it ?   Friend of mine sells a car. Guy calls a few hours later and says "Hey, this car don't run", "Is there gas in it ?". Click.   What happened to the median percentiles ? People either qualify for MENSA or a Darwin award and not much common sense in between.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 02:12PM -0700 >"To which I add the differences between the average tube-based Euro radio made between say.... 1950 and 1980, and the average American tube radio of the same era. "   But Euro is the bomb !   Look at new cars, want an aftermarket radio ? In the old days it was two nuts in front and a bolt in the back, now you have to cut the HVAC controls off of it, get a kit from Crutchfield and be handy enough to build the damn thing.

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Apr 24 02:32PM -0700 White Bear Lake. About a long stone's throw from me. I grew up spending my summers on that lake.

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 24 08:09PM -0700 > c) Who needs a power-transformer? > d) Let's let the industrial designers go nuts. Colors? Sure. Shapes? Whatever can be molded. > e) Let's all make all our radios from a palette of perhaps two dozen interchangeable parts in all, including tubes.   your lists don't represent the euro valve radios I've worked on by any means         > A poor workman blames his tools, but a good one picks the right tool for the job and relies upon it.   > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   and doesn't buy the tool with a great big pile of gimmick features     NT

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 24 08:17PM -0700 > I had some ideas for electrostatic speakers, could have worked but I found out it had been tried. I guess it wasn't worth the trouble sonically. I was going to take some 6MJ6sw or other horizontal output tubes and run them stacked and bridged to eliminate all the transformers, making it DC coupled. I think I would have had to run them stacked in series (like an Ampzilla) to get the required voltage. not a cheap undertaking but neither are ESLs in the first place.   > Ever see the schematic for the ESL-63s ? Thing has a delay line with several taps. It is said that the sound is like it is coming from behind the speaker, that's probably why.   > Some say those Maggies lack bass. I found them not to be "heavy" by any stretch, bit not really lacking. For my use I would have used subwoofers with them, but I am a bass freak.   ESL57s are pretty awesome, though I wouldn't say they look good.   Would you really need to stack LOP tubes? Static speakers can be quite simple, they used to get used driven directly IIRC as tweeters in some stuff.   The delay is necessary in the Quads so the treble is a bit more point sourced, and you don't get the outer edges cancelling the sound produced by the centre as the latter passes by the former.     NT

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 24 08:19PM -0700 > >"Of course it still doesn't counter the tendency for things to be boiling on the outside & ice in the centre. "   > Yup, people think they cook from the inside out but that is an old Husband's tale. They heat the water in the food.   > And there are no power levels, the supposed power levels are just duty cycle turning the magnetron on and off. (I wonder if it accelerates cathode stripping) I only saw one microwave with 2 actual power levels and it was ancient. It actually had an extra tap on the primary of the power transformer to cut the voltage. I don't remember but I assume it would have to have a separate filament transformer, but back when they were willing to put more than ten bucks into a $ 300 item we got things like that.   The most common way to do reduced power in the early 70s was with an HV cap & HV switch. If you're going to cook a mousse that's the sort you want.   You could reduce both filament & anode (or cathode really), that would work. It's how they used to run bright emitters in the 20s.     NT

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 11:58PM -0700 >"Would you really need to stack LOP tubes? "   I think the max plate voltage of a 6MJ6 is about 5 KV, so it wouldn't quite do it, even bridged, I think.   >"The most common way to do reduced power in the early 70s was with an HV cap & HV switch."   You mean like a lower value cap for the lower power level ?   >"It's how they used to run bright emitters in the 20s. "   What is a "bright emitter" ?

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 25 03:02AM -0700 On Wednesday, 25 April 2018 07:58:34 UTC+1, jurb...@gmail.com wrote: NT:   > >"Would you really need to stack LOP tubes? "   > I think the max plate voltage of a 6MJ6 is about 5 KV, so it wouldn't quite do it, even bridged, I think.   Picking the first random ES design I see 475v dc bias.     > >"The most common way to do reduced power in the early 70s was with an HV cap & HV switch."   > You mean like a lower value cap for the lower power level ?   2nd smaller cap in series with the ac HV feed, shorted for full power.   > >"It's how they used to run bright emitters in the 20s. "   > What is a "bright emitter" ?   before dull valve emitters were discovered, valves/tubes used thoriated tungsten direct heated bright emitters. They ran white hot. Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters.     NT

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 25 04:40AM -0700 > before dull valve emitters were discovered, valves/tubes used thoriated tungsten direct heated bright emitters. They ran white hot. Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters.   These must go back to pre-DeForest days??   I have some direct-heat thorated tungsten 00, 01 and 71A tubes, as well as a number of UV99s and similar. Not a one of them gets much past a mild orange. Not to mention 2A3, 10 and 50s. The closest thing to a "hot" tube I have is a 10, and that filament is about like a 25 watt tube running at 50V or so.   Which tubes are these?   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Apr 25 04:52AM -0700 > your lists don't represent the euro valve radios I've worked on by any means   > NT   I have to agree with Peter, but maybe it's just that the only German radios we saw imported were the high end models. Really, the AA5 was so simple, reliable, and performed so well that imports really couldn't compare in a consumer driven market.   When I was an early teen, I was given all the tube radios to work on at the family shop, and I always hated the Grundigs, Emuds, Blaupunkts, etc. because they were a pain in the ass to work on as opposed to the AA5(6) or FM versions of the same. I remember spending a whole afternoon changing out the piano key switch assy on several. Hated them. They performed well and sounded fabulous, but that didn't concern the guy on the bench. The good news was that Sams rewrote the schematics to put them in the familiar layout that we were used to on this side of the Atlantic, so that helped.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 25 06:40AM -0700 > I have some direct-heat thorated tungsten 00, 01 and 71A tubes, as well as a number of UV99s and similar. Not a one of them gets much past a mild orange. > Not to mention 2A3, 10 and 50s. The closest thing to a "hot" tube I have is a 10, and that filament is about like a 25 watt tube running at 50V or so.   > Which tubes are these?   On further research:   The cathode of a magnetron provides the electrons through which the mechanism of energy transfer is accomplished. The cathode is located in the center of the anode and is made up of a hollow cylinder of emissive material (mostly Barium Oxide) surrounding a heater. The feeding wires of the filament must center the whole cathode. Any eccentricity between anode and cathode can cause serious internal arcing or malfunction.   Does not seem to be much Thorium involved??

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 25 09:21AM -0700 >"Picking the first random ES design I see 475v dc bias. "   According to RCA's RC30 the peak pulse plate voltage it rated 5,000 volts. Without reading all the details this is of course with negative voltage on G1, it is the retrace pulse for the yoke and rectified for HV. So a pair stacked SESAPP would yield 2,000 volts peak at best. Bridged, of course 5,000 volts. I'm fairly sure most ESLs need more than that. Without going to transmitter tubes I think that is about the highest voltage to be had except in a HV shub regulator such as a 6BK4. Those are good for 27,000 volts but at 5,000 volts will only pass 750 uA. I think that only works out to about 16 watts. Unless ESLs lose a ton of power in the internal transformer that will not do. The book doesn't give plate dissipation but the tube s designed with the anode away from the glass and they do get red hot and work just fine. It is not impossible though, first of all with that topology, triodes should be easier to deal with. It would be a matter of a bunch of them in parallel which would cost more, but a true audiophile doesn't care.   It doesn't give the maximum heater cathode voltage but I am assuming any design will need separate floating filament supplies. Not too hard with modern SMPS technology. However there is also the issue of frequency response. Since it is designed for HV shunt regulator use I imagine its frequency response is not stellar. I'm not sure now much can be done with feedback when there is that much open loop voltage gain. Plus the capacitive load doesn't help.   >"2nd smaller cap in series with the ac HV feed, shorted for full power. "   Makes sense. I red that the power id chiefly determined by the cap value, the transformers are not all that different, except the one I mentioned that actually had an extra tap for lower power.   In light of that, when I replace the cap in this 1992 Litton, what about using a higher value to squeeze a few more watts out of it ? Is that too dangerous or otherwise not feasible ? To me, it is damn hard to have too much power, you just use less time, and since this doesn't ave real power control as far as I know, it just cycles anyway. Of course it might already have the biggest value on practice because it is a fairly large unit and I remember it had alot of power when it was new. We had to get used to it, it wasn't like the elcheapos. I would up the cp value for decent results but if it is going to burn something up because of it I'll leave it as designed.   >"Nuke magnetrons use thoriated tungsten bright emitters. "   AHA, so that filament is already burning pretty hot then right ? I see.

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"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 23 10:44AM -0700 > >"Unless you have a heavy duty printer, it is often better just to get a > new one."   > 1. I got time on my hands.   Idle hands are the Devil's workshop.     > 2. I am sick of this "You can buy" shit, all of which sends our borrowed money overseas. And if you think YOU don't use credit, the dollars are on credit. Anytime I can keep money from foreigners I think that is good.   At one level, true. At another, the more of our dollars that are in foreign hands, the more interest those foreigners have in our continued survival. If our dollars become useless, theirs are no more than fire-starters.     > I do have a LASER printer, but this one avoids a trip to the basement. It's also the only FAX machine in the house and while it would send it wouldn't print so... Also could not print the confirmation of a sent FAX.   Cleaning a printer-head is, typically, not a huge job unless that printer has been sitting for a very long time, or in extreme conditions. Keeping in mind that the alternative is landfill, using unusual means and methods is fair game. Back when we did have an HP inkjet device - one that clogged every couple-of-days, 99% alcohol was my go-to cleaner. Get an old ink cartridge, fill it with alcohol - off you go. Got tired of that and went to the Epsom. No regrets so far.     > I am also going through stuff to work on, I got time. I haven't been able to work for awhile so I need to get my legs back so to speak. Next is a microwave bought in 1992. When they were $ 89 this one was $ 150 wholesale. A new one will not outlast it. It has a burned out light, a bad connection, I think to the gate of the triac, and I am going to trow a capacitor in it whether it is good or not. (seems like it used to have more power.   With all due respect, a little research is mandated on this one. "New" microwaves from legitimate manufacturers are lighter, more powerful, and far more refined that those from the Amana Radarange days. Our present three units are 12, 8 and 6 years old respectively. The oldest gets the heaviest use. But the newest one knows the difference between three different kinds of popcorn, knows how to actually 'bake' a potato, or even three of them, and will also defrost without parboiling.     > New and improved means improved profits for the manufacturer, cheaper to produce and as a result harder to work on usually.   There is that. But it is entirely possible to purchase a good, serviceable, well-made and well designed product in about every category. Won't be the cheapest, however. I keep speakers made in Minnesota over 40 years ago. The company is still in business, and still sells parts for every speaker they have ever made. I can't even write that about my AR speakers.     > >"For what they pay for that conract, they could probalby buy everyone a new printer every year. "   > Well, a local grocery store has 8 oz. cans of sauce or 20 cents or a 15.5 ox can of he same thing for 69 cents. A bag boy didn't set those prices. Don't expect brains from anyone.   Same thing (same manufacturer, same ingredients list), or generic same thing? Just curious.     > And now, if this printer ever needs cleaning agian it will be a 15 minute job.   Sure,and as it should be.   BTW, as most of what we do requires color, and what business printing I do at home requires heavy color-coding, a color laser printer would be prohibitively expensive, not to mention supplies and service.   The issue on water reminds me of my college days. Penn and Princeton are huge Ivy League rivals, usually alternating at each other's location for Homecoming. Public restroom - Penn student walks in, uses the urinal and walks out. Princeton student says: "At Princeton, we are taught to wash our hands after using the urinal.". Penn Student: "At Penn, we are taught not to piss on our fingers."   About covers it.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Apr 23 02:03PM -0500 > I have a court case and am going pro se.   A lawyer that represents himself has a fool for his client.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 23 01:54PM -0700 On Monday, 23 April 2018 20:03:33 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote: > On 4/23/18 10:46 AM, jurb6006@gmail.com wrote:   > > I have a court case and am going pro se.   > A lawyer that represents himself has a fool for his client.   I've done that for small claims. The other side was the fool, paying a lawyer more than the claim amount for a case they couldn't win.     NT

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Apr 23 02:32PM -0700 > With all due respect, a little research is mandated on this one. "New" microwaves from legitimate manufacturers are lighter, more powerful, and far more refined that those from the Amana Radarange days.   My brother had an Amana from the mid 70s, back when Amana had a distribution deal with Zenith. Aaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnd he still has it. In his kitchen. Heats stuff in it. Every day. Never quit... It went from new, to old fashioned, to retro. I think the door weighs 15 lbs.   IIRC our wholesale price was over $500; righteous bucks in them days, but this had an unique for the time feature - a true digital soft touch capacitance keypad.   In 1985 when I got married, the same brother gave me a microwave for a gift. This was a Litton that was also bullet proof. About 15 years ago when it was already over 20 years old my buddy stopped by one Saturday afternoon when I had the whole thing torn down to clean the beejeezus out of it after my bride entered one extra zero when making popped corn. The smell of badly burned popped corn is only a little less offensive than skunk and lasts about as long. My buddy asked me why I didn't just go buy a new one rather than take the time to clean it, and I told him that this one would last longer than if I did replace it.   Fast forward to three years ago and the computer on the Litton started getting wonky. I finally retired it and bought an Emerson, that lasted a year. I know have a Frigidaire.. We'll see how long this one goes.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Apr 23 02:50PM -0700 >> A lawyer that represents himself has a fool for his client.   > I've done that for small claims. The other side was the fool, paying > a lawyer more than the claim amount for a case they couldn't win.   No lawyers allowed in local Small Claims Court, but they're allowed in appeals.   I won one where I had to explain the defendant's viewpoint to the judge as well as my own. I also explained to the defendant that if he refused to pay I would have the marshals seize his car and auction it off. I had to explain it twice.   Hint: you can't blame God for your own faulty maintenance.   -- Cheers, Bev HAMMER: Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a kind of divining rod to locate expensive bike parts not far from the object we are trying to hit.

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Apr 23 06:16PM -0500 On 4/23/18 4:32 PM, John-Del wrote: > Fast forward to three years ago and the computer on the Litton > started getting wonky. I finally retired it and bought an > Emerson, that lasted a year.   You're doing it wrong, for the past 15 years, every microwave I've bought was $10-15 at a thrift store.   Everyone I've bought is still working.   An excellent ROI.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 23 06:59PM -0700 On Tuesday, 24 April 2018 00:16:39 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote: > I've bought was $10-15 at a thrift store.   > Everyone I've bought is still working.   > An excellent ROI.   The upside to that approach is that the ones that died young are weeded out. The downside is there's often something wrong with them or they'll annoying in some odd way.     NT

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Apr 23 07:06PM -0700 On Monday, 23 April 2018 22:32:51 UTC+1, John-Del wrote: > On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 1:44:11 PM UTC-4, pf...@aol.com wrote:   > > With all due respect, a little research is mandated on this one. "New" microwaves from legitimate manufacturers are lighter, more powerful, and far more refined that those from the Amana Radarange days.   Lighter, yes the cases are thinner. I don't see a significant upside to that, and it makes them noisier. More powerful? Sometimes, sometimes not. I don't see a significant upside to it though. More refined? 5 or 10 power levels does beat 2. Other than that I don't think controls have improved any. The old mechanical timers are still common on new machines and quicker to use than digital. One of my digitals is plastered with utterly useless buttons, with the few useful ones buried in among them. Designed by an idiot or someone from the marketing dept. One thing that does beat the old Amanas is modern interlock safety, in other respects I don't think new ones are a significant improvement.   Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk. And another... I once encountered one so ancient (pre-Amana) that it continued cooking until the door was a long way open. Not good.     NT

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Apr 23 08:15PM -0700 > The upside to that approach is that the ones that died young are > weeded out. The downside is there's often something wrong with them > or they'll annoying in some odd way.   My mom didn't want one, so we forced a yard-sale microwave on her -- if she didn't like it she could give or throw it away. She, of course, loved it until it stopped working. Hubby took it apart and found a dried mouse deep inside -- it must have gotten in during factory assembly, there was no other way. He removed it and did something else, and it worked fine.   To her credit, she continued to use it until her boss gave her a new one for Xmas. Women were tougher in those days.   The cheap ($90?) Panasonic we bought at Costco in 2012 is still working fine.   -- Cheers, Bev "I don't trust carry-out food. When you find hair in my cooking you don't hafta worry about where it came from!" -- Dinette Set

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Apr 23 11:31PM -0400 In article <pbm7gb$311$1@dont-email.me>, bashley101@gmail.com says... > dried mouse deep inside -- it must have gotten in during factory > assembly, there was no other way. He removed it and did something else, > and it worked fine.   My mom was an excellent cook for everyday southern meals. She never wanted a MW. Dad bought her one for Christmas around 1980. After she used it a few time, she would not give it up for warming things over.   After her and dad passed away out MW gave out after about 20 years, the mechanical timer wore out. We got her old one and still use it.

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Apr 24 06:49AM -0700 > Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk.   My last two MWs have turntables, and they *still* require frequent dish movement to keep cooking more or less even. The turntable helps, but I spend as much time moving the dish as I did in my old Litton without a turntable.   Of course, even with a turntable, any thick casserole or soup dish requires constant stirring lest you want a scalding hot dish with an icy cold center (my brother calls that the Katherine Heigl effect....)

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 07:23AM -0700 >"Oh, yes there is an exception. If an old microwave has no turntable, forget it, those ones are hopeless and a food poisoning risk. "   The turntable is actually a cheap way out of real engineering. Microwaves without them "stir" the waves with a reflector at the top which is motor driven, usually off the fan and some of them just use the air flow to blow them into turning.   Now if you have a microwave with both, there's a good one and I believe that's what we have here. Remember that $ 150 was wholesale because I worked there, AND I was told it was a special price at that. he bought a bunch of them and most went to friends and family. The only thing more expensive in table ovens was a convection microwave which requires a 30 amp dedicated circuit, but could cook a turkey in about a half hour.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 07:36AM -0700 >"But the newest one knows the difference between three different kinds of popcorn, knows how to actually 'bake' a potato, or even three of them, and will also defrost without parboiling."   I can do that by using it right. I can also adjust the car seats and mirrors myself, turn the courtesy lights on and off myself. I'm just a dinosaur I guess, after all, how many people do you know who can do a longhand square root ? No batteries for the calculator ? No problem.   About the popcorn. I bought a used waterbed from a buddy who came over to help set it up. First he says I'll never be able to fill it with warm water but I did, two hot water heaters :-) So he has his olady and kids over as well and brought microwave popcorn. Did I mention my microwave's nickname was Chernobyl ? So it says 5 minutes and it got stuck in for 5 minutes. Opening the door we discovered that it was literally on fire. I said "I think it's done".   And then the shop microwave from years before, you know a 12 cut 16" pizza ? Extra large ? Well I could slide a whole one in there including the box. Talk about designing a microwave ? It is not the easiest thing in the world to make those waves spread over that much area, and yes I said area. Notice the bigger ones are also higher, while a wider and deeper interior would be more useful. Easier to design. They are rated in cubic ft., so the numbers look marvelous, but how often do you stack stuff on top of each other in the microwave ? "Oh, but it takes up so much counter spacer !", whine and bitch, whine and bitch. Look, when you figure out how to build a TARDIS like Dr Who, we will use that technology so that in the space of a coffeepot you can nuke a moose, OK ?

jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 24 07:49AM -0700 >"I keep speakers made in Minnesota over 40 years ago. The company is still in business, and still sells parts for every speaker they have ever made. I can't even write that about my AR speakers. "   What brand. I might be interested in some one day.   I have a pair of AR93Qs that need all the foams and tweeters, I am considering fixing them up. I've heard some good things about them. I DO like the idea of 4 ohms. If an amp can't handle 4 ohms I consider it junk. I used to run a newer Pioneer into 2.3 ohms with a window fan on it for cooling. If you forgot to turn the fan on it smelled like a clothes iron left on too high. Obviously it has no current limiting but surprisingly it still works. It is integrated but has the shittiest preamp section I have ever seen.   Anyway, AR was affiliated with Olson's right ? They have been out of business long enough for a military pension. The 93Qs seem pretty nice, side firing 8" woofers and 8" midrange, and the midrange is open back but in a section of the cabinet that is sequestered from the rear woofer radiation. They can use a lower crossover frequency from woofers to mid, which is usually good. And they are a sealed system which I like. Even if they have less bass it is better bass. They are also much heavier than they look.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 24 09:10AM -0700 > >"I keep speakers made in Minnesota over 40 years ago. The company is still in business, and still sells parts for every speaker they have ever made. I can't even write that about my AR speakers. "   > What brand. I might be interested in some one day.   Magnepan. Great Bear Lake, MN   Magnepan MG-IIIa, 6' x 2' x 2" planar speakers. Nothing else like them on earth.   The 93Q is well worth fixing. I would estimate about 2 hours per, then overnight curing. I have done enough surrounds as I would be a bit faster than that, but not by much.   I keep 3a, 4ax, 28, M5 and Athenas from AR. As well as a pair of TSW-110s at the summer house.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Apr 23 02:03PM -0700 On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 12:55:33 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >All:   Methinks that should be "You All" or "Y'all".   >Trolls get fat, happy and stupid by exploiting our inability to... (etc).   I should include trolls in my biblical style description of various Usenet personalities: <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/genesis.txt> My "men of graffiti" are close, but not quite a troll. Hmmm... I should probably take my own advice in the last line.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Apr 23 02:45PM -0700 On 04/23/2018 02:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > <peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:   >>All:   > Methinks that should be "You All" or "Y'all".   "Y'all" is singular; "All y'all" is the plural.   Just sayin'     > I should include trolls in my biblical style description of various > Usenet personalities: > <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/genesis.txt>   :-)   > My "men of graffiti" are close, but not quite a troll. > Hmmm... I should probably take my own advice in the last line.   You get to choose :-)   -- "I don't need instructions, I have a hammer." -- T.W. Wier

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Apr 24 04:54AM -0700 On Monday, April 23, 2018 at 5:03:53 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > <peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:   > >All:   > Methinks that should be "You All" or "Y'all".   Given my location, were I to indulge in a colloquial form of plural address, it would be Youns, pronounced Yuns to rhyme with Huns. As that would fly over the head of 50% of the population, and beneath the dignity of 49%, I will stick with the stodgy "All".   My wife is from Virginia, and even after 36 years, I still do not entirely understand the various forms of y'all, and how they are applied. There are at least six (6).   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Apr 24 09:08AM -0700 On Tue, 24 Apr 2018 04:54:55 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com" >address, it would be Youns, pronounced Yuns to rhyme with Huns. >As that would fly over the head of 50% of the population, and >beneath the dignity of 49%, I will stick with the stodgy "All".   I haven't heard that pronounciation. One of my customers, from somewhere in the south, ocassionally says "all". I have trouble distinguishing his "all" from "oil". Both sound exactly the same to me.   My husband tries to speak without a southern accent <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4arBraMyp0Q>   >My wife is from Virginia, and even after 36 years, I still do not >entirely understand the various forms of y'all, and how they are >applied. There are at least six (6).   I only know the two that I mentioned. I must be culturally deprived.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: Apr 24 08:32AM -0700 On Sunday, April 22, 2018 at 4:06:05 AM UTC-4, Mike Coon wrote: . (Quite a new idea, then, perhaps.) Their snooty designer, > choked-off splutters...   > So I am familiar with the danger, after all!   > Mike.   When I worked in a plant, one of the corporate engineers came to visit. She dressed very stylishly - heels, nylons, jewelry - but incautiously leaned against a rail in the starch room, where we made glue. With lots of caustic soda. The nylons actually melted off, quite embarrassing. I had to feel a little sorry for her, but then again somebody would have warned her if she'd been a little easier to work with.

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