sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Today's Lead Free Crap Solder Stories ... - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/161210aa2275c858?hl=en
* LCD Desktop Monitor Fading to White, then Black - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2c04885c7b46754a?hl=en
* VT5V73 Generic 15" LCD Color NTSC Composite Video Monitor No Backlight
Symptom - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6a68c49b01bdbfae?hl=en
* The Bob Parker Anatek Blue ESR Meter - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bba8d6130db676c0?hl=en
* Cheap Wholesale Adidas Shoes (paypal payment) (http://www.brandtrade10.com/ )
- 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e597d6a73ed32a16?hl=en
* Followup re: USB malfunction ? / Ezbus digital mixer /Ez-usb USB chip - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3a382fddd16c1f3?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today's Lead Free Crap Solder Stories ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/161210aa2275c858?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, May 20 2010 6:20 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

The first is the Warrior amp that I posted on here about, looking for
schematics. None were found, and as expected, the importer ignored my pleas,
so I decided I would spend a half hour on it 'blind'.

It turned out to not be too difficult to get the main PCB out, complete with
heatsinks and back panel. The wiring was long enough to allow the board to
be turned over, without having to disconnect everything. The fault was that
one of the two identical output stages was behaving as a pretty good half
wave rectifier, but only with a load connected. With no load, an applied
sine wave was perfectly symmetrical at the output terminals, and of similar
size to the good channel. With a load connected, the negative excursions
disappeared almost totally. Nothing was burning, and the the output protect
didn't even fire until the wick was turned well up, which led me to believe
that the problem may well be back in the driver stages or earlier. As there
are two identical amps, I figured that I would start with a few comparitive
resistance checks between channels. Quickly, I found that at the base pin of
one of the driver transistors, I had a reading of 3k or so on the good
channel, but open circuit at the same point on the bad channel. I followed
the print back and took another reading and Lo! - 3k ...

So I went back to the transistor leg - open, but at the joint, 3k. I tell
you, I examined that joint with the strongest light and magnifier that I
have, but you could not see a problem with it. However, as soon as it was
resoldered, 3k on the leg as well, and the amp then worked normally. This is
the problem with lead free. You can no longer spot bad joints by eye, and
they don't behave like conventional bad joints any more.

The second one was a Vox combo. This one was reported as "goes off after a
while - tap top to get it back". It actually ran for about 2 hours, during
which time I thrashed the output stage so hard you couldn't touch the
heatsink, and periodically knocked seven bells out of it with the butt end
of a large philips screwdy. At no time did it show any signs of
intermittency. I was actually on the phone to the store that it came to me
from, to check if they knew the owner, and whether he was savvy, or a
numpty, when it went off. Just like that. No provocation. You could then
lightly tap the top of the chassis just about anywhere, and it would come
and go at will. So easy was it to make it do it, you would have thought that
the joint causing it would have been really easily spotted. I twisted and
wiggled everything I could, but nothing made it do it, but still the
lightest tap, and there it went.

Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that did no
good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the board. It was a
component that I had previously twisted. This time I pulled it, and one leg
just came right out of the board. The joint looked perfectly normal - for
lead-free that is - but it had not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the
hell could that take two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before
that time, and then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so
tap sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
lead-free with a passion.

If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid ...

Arfa

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, May 20 2010 7:58 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

For technicians in the consumer goods/home entertainment repair industry,
the present situation can be defined as BOHICA.

Manufacturers haven't been soldering consumer goods properly for decades,
and I agree with your summary, that with lead-free, it's going to get much
worse.
I'm sure some are thinking: Opportunity. No, not when the owner can buy a
new one for less than a repair job.

Did anyone own a RCA Thomson(?) TV of the 90s that didn't fail within two
years? The CTC77 type, for a few series with bad tuner shield soldering,
where the shield was used for needed circuit continuity.

Even so, much earlier, many types of electronic gear failures were a result
of soldering faults/failures.

There was a SER post years ago titled something like; why can't
manufacturers solder?

Apparently the company accountants were in charge of the speed control of
the track feed as the boards passed thru the solder wave bath, it seems.
At double speed, they could potentially save tens-of-thousands of dollars in
solder purchasing costs per year.. or something similar.

As any techs with some years of experience have seen countless times, larger
components that can dissipate more heat during the soldering phase of
manufacturing rarely get soldered properly.

Automation in board fabrication was a huge advancement in electronic
manufacturing, but that wasn't satisfactory for the
accountant/profits-driven manufacturing model.

The Chinese have taken nearly every manufacturing process to a whole 'nother
lower level, even before lead-free.
It's disgusting that the American and other countries' consumers keep buying
this shiney new worthless crap, with much of it being put out for trash
pickup within a year.. year after year (and paying to have it hauled away).
Undoubtedly, many career positions available in waste management.

Get used to the likelyhood that any vacant land will become landfill pits..
who knows, maybe even our national parks.
When the groundwater aquafers are nearly totally fuctup, a fleet of space
shuttles can start hauling it away.
Where's the koolaid line form? I wanna be at the front of the line (if I
even last much longer).

All of this low grade crap manufactured today should be imported only with a
Return to Sender Free agreement. Let them dispose of all this worthless
crap.. and I'm fairly sure they would, and sell it again as recycled, but
fresh, new products.

I try to buy older stuff that was manufactured to a slightly higher level of
quality, which may at least be repairable. Anymore, I only repair my own
stuff, or a limited number of items that I want to, for a few close friends.

What's taken place, I think, which I suspect was intentionally forced upon
most of us, is that manufacturers wanted to lower everyone's expectations of
quality.
With that accomplished, all they need to do is make sure there are shelves
full of new crap to replace the old crap with.

How many times has someone been heard saying; I'll never buy that brand
again, next time I'll buy a (different brand)?
Catch 22.. it's nearly all the same, in retail stores, anyway. Before they
know it, they choose another product from the same brand name they started
with.. and round 'n round it goes.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mdlJn.18479$ea4.8777@newsfe29.ams2...
> The first is the Warrior amp that I posted on here about, looking for
> schematics. None were found, and as expected, the importer ignored my
> pleas, so I decided I would spend a half hour on it 'blind'.
>
> It turned out to not be too difficult to get the main PCB out, complete
> with heatsinks and back panel. The wiring was long enough to allow the
> board to be turned over, without having to disconnect everything. The
> fault was that one of the two identical output stages was behaving as a
> pretty good half wave rectifier, but only with a load connected. With no
> load, an applied sine wave was perfectly symmetrical at the output
> terminals, and of similar size to the good channel. With a load connected,
> the negative excursions disappeared almost totally. Nothing was burning,
> and the the output protect didn't even fire until the wick was turned well
> up, which led me to believe that the problem may well be back in the
> driver stages or earlier. As there are two identical amps, I figured that
> I would start with a few comparitive resistance checks between channels.
> Quickly, I found that at the base pin of one of the driver transistors, I
> had a reading of 3k or so on the good channel, but open circuit at the
> same point on the bad channel. I followed the print back and took another
> reading and Lo! - 3k ...
>
> So I went back to the transistor leg - open, but at the joint, 3k. I tell
> you, I examined that joint with the strongest light and magnifier that I
> have, but you could not see a problem with it. However, as soon as it was
> resoldered, 3k on the leg as well, and the amp then worked normally. This
> is the problem with lead free. You can no longer spot bad joints by eye,
> and they don't behave like conventional bad joints any more.
>
> The second one was a Vox combo. This one was reported as "goes off after a
> while - tap top to get it back". It actually ran for about 2 hours, during
> which time I thrashed the output stage so hard you couldn't touch the
> heatsink, and periodically knocked seven bells out of it with the butt end
> of a large philips screwdy. At no time did it show any signs of
> intermittency. I was actually on the phone to the store that it came to me
> from, to check if they knew the owner, and whether he was savvy, or a
> numpty, when it went off. Just like that. No provocation. You could then
> lightly tap the top of the chassis just about anywhere, and it would come
> and go at will. So easy was it to make it do it, you would have thought
> that the joint causing it would have been really easily spotted. I twisted
> and wiggled everything I could, but nothing made it do it, but still the
> lightest tap, and there it went.
>
> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that did no
> good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the board. It was
> a component that I had previously twisted. This time I pulled it, and one
> leg just came right out of the board. The joint looked perfectly normal -
> for lead-free that is - but it had not whetted the resistor leg at all.
> How the hell could that take two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all
> before that time, and then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting,
> but be so tap sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather?
> I HATE lead-free with a passion.
>
> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid ...
>
> Arfa
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 12:17 am
From: "N_Cook"

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:mdlJn.18479$ea4.8777@newsfe29.ams2...
> The first is the Warrior amp that I posted on here about, looking for
> schematics. None were found, and as expected, the importer ignored my
pleas,
> so I decided I would spend a half hour on it 'blind'.
>
> It turned out to not be too difficult to get the main PCB out, complete
with
> heatsinks and back panel. The wiring was long enough to allow the board to
> be turned over, without having to disconnect everything. The fault was
that
> one of the two identical output stages was behaving as a pretty good half
> wave rectifier, but only with a load connected. With no load, an applied
> sine wave was perfectly symmetrical at the output terminals, and of
similar
> size to the good channel. With a load connected, the negative excursions
> disappeared almost totally. Nothing was burning, and the the output
protect
> didn't even fire until the wick was turned well up, which led me to
believe
> that the problem may well be back in the driver stages or earlier. As
there
> are two identical amps, I figured that I would start with a few
comparitive
> resistance checks between channels. Quickly, I found that at the base pin
of
> one of the driver transistors, I had a reading of 3k or so on the good
> channel, but open circuit at the same point on the bad channel. I followed
> the print back and took another reading and Lo! - 3k ...
>
> So I went back to the transistor leg - open, but at the joint, 3k. I tell
> you, I examined that joint with the strongest light and magnifier that I
> have, but you could not see a problem with it. However, as soon as it was
> resoldered, 3k on the leg as well, and the amp then worked normally. This
is
> the problem with lead free. You can no longer spot bad joints by eye, and
> they don't behave like conventional bad joints any more.
>
> The second one was a Vox combo. This one was reported as "goes off after a
> while - tap top to get it back". It actually ran for about 2 hours, during
> which time I thrashed the output stage so hard you couldn't touch the
> heatsink, and periodically knocked seven bells out of it with the butt end
> of a large philips screwdy. At no time did it show any signs of
> intermittency. I was actually on the phone to the store that it came to me
> from, to check if they knew the owner, and whether he was savvy, or a
> numpty, when it went off. Just like that. No provocation. You could then
> lightly tap the top of the chassis just about anywhere, and it would come
> and go at will. So easy was it to make it do it, you would have thought
that
> the joint causing it would have been really easily spotted. I twisted and
> wiggled everything I could, but nothing made it do it, but still the
> lightest tap, and there it went.
>
> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that did
no
> good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the board. It was
a
> component that I had previously twisted. This time I pulled it, and one
leg
> just came right out of the board. The joint looked perfectly normal - for
> lead-free that is - but it had not whetted the resistor leg at all. How
the
> hell could that take two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before
> that time, and then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be
so
> tap sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
> lead-free with a passion.
>
> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid ...
>
> Arfa
>
>

I'm thinking of making a tug-test tool for PbF checking. Probably based on
an automatic centre punch tool latch mechanism but somehow inverted in
operation. How many ounces or grams of pullout tension do you think a 1/3 W
resistor lead/wire link/TO92 wire should resist pulling out , leaded solder
that is.

--
Diverse Devices, Southampton, England
electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on
http://diverse.4mg.com/index.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LCD Desktop Monitor Fading to White, then Black
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2c04885c7b46754a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 20 2010 7:54 pm
From: saber850

On May 16, 10:42 am, adse...@wheeloyum.com wrote:
> On May 16, 8:22 am, Mike Tomlinson <m...@jasper.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <6b0a157b-e045-40eb-a7a9-cee3092a7...@h39g2000yqn.googlegroup
> > s.com>, saber850 <saber...@yahoo.com> writes
>
> > >Fortunately, I ordered 2x the caps a couple days ago.  So hopefully
> > >the problem is in fact the caps and I'll have both fixed soon.
>
> > It'd be interesting to hear how you got on.
>
> > --
> > (\__/)  
> > (='.'=)  Bunny's thinking about giving Windows 7
> > (")_(")  a go despite what he's said about it...
>
> Absolutely!  I intend on posting back with my next steps.
>
> At this point, I'm still waiting for the parts (currently expected to
> arrive tomorrow).  I'll say I'm not thrilled to have paid >$8 to ship
> a 0.4lb package which takes 5 business days to arrive.  Perhaps I'm
> spoiled by NewEgg's ship time & prices.
>
> Fortunately, my monitors seem to be playing tag-team on functioning
> correctly, so I can still function at this point.

I just completed soldering all the new caps to one of the boards! For
desoldering, I found it easier to simply heat each lead and gently
pull the cap out. The braided copper didn't really help, perhaps
because the pins are so small.

The good news is that the monitor functions fine (I thought I may have
messed up one of the caps). The unfortunate news is that only time
will tell if the problem is really solved.

I will post back with the status after a couple days. If all goes
well, I'll repeat the procedure on the other board.

Thank you all for your help thus far!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: VT5V73 Generic 15" LCD Color NTSC Composite Video Monitor No Backlight
Symptom
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6a68c49b01bdbfae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 20 2010 8:04 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

I bought a couple of used units of these No-brand generic LCD monitors to
use for video camera use. They have no brand name, and I don't know where
they were sold originally.

For my first actual fault-finding in-circuit testing use of the Blue ESR
Meter, I found a defective capacitor quickly, and restored the operation of
a LCD composite video monitor.

I had been looking at cheap, new replacement CCFL tubes and inverters for
sale on eBay, but instead, decided to finally buy a Blue ESR Meter for this
task, instead of using my usual tester, a Sencore Z-Meter.

The backlights would sometimes come on when the AC power was applied. If
they did come on, they'd shut off within a very short time.

The inverter board is a long narrow (~ 7x1") board with outputs for 2 lamps
at the ends and a 5-pin power/control signal connector near the middle.
There is only one electrolytic cap on the inverter board, so I turned on the
ESR meter and zero the test leads, and check the 100uF 25V C1 cap.. Over
Range, how cool is that?
Fast, easy, reliable confirmation of a faulty capacitor.

While I had the back panel removed, I checked the PSU electrolytics, but
found no problems. The units have an AC power cord, and the PSU supplies
only 12VDC and 5VDC to the main and audio boards, with power for the
inverter coming from the main board.

Further testing of the inverter 100uF/25V cap, with the Sencore Z-Meter
showed the following:
ESR: 220 ohms
Value: 23uF
Leakage: 10uA
Dielectric Absorption: 16% initially, increasing to over 31%

The 2 NTSC monitor units I have appear to be different versions, as one unit
has OSD menu aspect ratio choices of 4:3 and 5:4, the other one has 4:3 and
16:9.

The monitors were apparently modified to turn on when AC power is applied,
as I received them, so the on/off switch doesn't do anything.

These appear to have been manufactured in 2004 or 2005, marked as made in
Taiwan.

Inverter Label: 02B1D529 (MAYBE 02BI...) 4143015602 VER 2.06 10.06.2004

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Bob Parker Anatek Blue ESR Meter
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bba8d6130db676c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 20 2010 8:21 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

I bought a new Blue ESR meter kit from Anatek recently. The kit was received
very quickly, and assembly was easy. The kit is neatly packed, the circuit
board is high quality and clearly marked for correct component placement.

Anatek created an online forum for discussion of their products, so, if
someone encounters problems after assembly of the kit, they can find several
solutions and/or get quick help
http://www.anatekcorp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

Aside from proper component placement, improper soldering technique would
probably be the only issue that an inexperienced kit builder or DIY-type
would experience.
If one is not trying to rush thru the assembly, there aren't likely be any
problems at completion.

I've intended to get one of the Bob Parker ESR models for many years, but I
procrastinate. I heard of the Procrastinators of America about 40 years ago
but never got around to joining.

I had read possibly hundreds of positive comments about Bob's ESR meters
over the years, and new users continue to praise them.

I've used Sencore Z-Meters for lots of years, and the Sencore models are
reliable, and also offer many capacitor and inductor test-analyze
features/functions beyond ESR testing, but the Bob Parker ESR meter is much
more convenient to use for quickly checking caps on a board.
Before the Sencore units, I relied on a digital capacitance meter and a
leakage tester built from a magazine article in the 80s, scope and DMM.

The Sencore units are very sensitive to any resistance of the connections
for the test cable.. oxidation at the front panel BNC connector can prevent
the circuits from zeroing properly (fault condition).
The Sencore test cable is about a 3' length of RG-62 B/U which isn't as
easily handled as the simple test leads of the Blue ESR meter.
The Blue ESR Meter is agreeable to to simple test leads and different
attachments such as alligator clips or test probes.

Like many others who like to or need to investigate circuit faults, I'm also
delighted with the Blue ESR Meter.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, May 20 2010 10:55 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 5/20/2010 8:21 PM Wild_Bill spake thus:

> I bought a new Blue ESR meter kit from Anatek recently. The kit was received
> very quickly, and assembly was easy. The kit is neatly packed, the circuit
> board is high quality and clearly marked for correct component placement.

So have you checked the ESR of the caps in the kit?

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Wholesale Adidas Shoes (paypal payment) (http://www.brandtrade10.
com/ )
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e597d6a73ed32a16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, May 20 2010 8:33 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Followup re: USB malfunction ? / Ezbus digital mixer /Ez-usb USB chip
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3a382fddd16c1f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 12:21 am
From: "N_Cook"

I'm thinking out in wwwland must be some general Cypress utility for
transfering minimal data into their chippery to redesignate VID/PID
pipe/endpoints etc.
Put a switch in the SDA line , leave open at power up , so USB designated
Cypress, then after 3 seconds when clock line is high close the switch. Then
upload something to the memory, enough to redisignate the USB identity. Then
power down and power up and transfer the mixer firmware.

==============================================================================

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