sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* IC-28A transmit section carnage - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2d64dac1e201e106?hl=en
* Followup re: USB malfunction ? / Ezbus digital mixer /Ez-usb USB chip - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3a382fddd16c1f3?hl=en
* Unlabelled and disconnected mains primary wires - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/827164e09c1645bf?hl=en
* DTV decoder repair, capacitor gets too hot - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a64f4c6ccba41cd?hl=en
* OT Using Mozilla T-Bird on here ... - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ab7978b76cb06599?hl=en
* 40Gb Western Digital hard drive - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d11c27dd9c7d80c0?hl=en
* Cordless Panasonic phones - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/703047b5418d2146?hl=en
* OT: archiving on CD/DVD - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7865cc1a1f8d8699?hl=en
* Lead free solder - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/23523e78c578fbf8?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: IC-28A transmit section carnage
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2d64dac1e201e106?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 31 2010 7:35 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann


On Mon, 31 May 2010 21:41:25 -0400, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

>Your assumption is most likely correct... I can give you an idea how
>ever.. If you can remove the cover of the module, and inspect the board,
>you may find a crack. You'll need a high temp soldering iron to put it
>back together.. This is common with RF modules or various types.
>
>I've done this 3 times already on different rigs and it worked. Most
>of the time a crack develops, mostly from abuse. Other times, you have
>a bad module..

It doesn't require abuse. See:
<http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/power-amp.html>
That's the guts of the VHF power module from my Kenwood TM-732A radio.
The circled areas are where I had to solder the trace back together.
The two failures were seperated by about 2 years and will probably
continue at the same interval. My guess(tm) is that it was caused by
either incomplete baking of the hybrid, or a bad solder paste mix when
the hybrid was silk screened.

The gaps were almost invisible and very difficult to see. They would
have been far more visible if I could have shined a light from the
back, but there's a big copper heat spreader in the way. Instead, I
found them with an ohmmeter. I started with the probes at the end of
the conductor trace, which showed no continuity. I slowly moved the
probes closer to each other and eventually closed in on the break.

Soldering was also rather difficult. The ceramic hybrid is a
wonderful heatsink and literally sucks all the heat out of the
soldering iron. I had to use a rather large 850C screwdriver solder
tip and still managed to do a lousy job of soldering.

Also note on the photograph the two big power xsistors. The goo
covering them is rather soft and flexible silicon rubber. Please
resist the temptation to push on it, or you'll break the wire bonds
underneath.

If desperate, you can get replacement PA modules from RF Parts.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 6:25 am
From: Meat Plow


On Mon, 31 May 2010 18:15:27 -0700, David Brodbeck ǝʇoɹʍ:

> For those curious how this went:
>
> I replaced Q17 and C54.
>
> I now have correct voltages on all four pins of the PA module in
> transmit mode, but still almost no power output -- I suspect a bad PA
> module, at this point. Reinforcing this is the fact that I appear to
> have more signal on the input of the PA module than I have on the
> output.
>
> I think I'm going to set this one aside and just use it as a receiver;
> at this point it's not worth spending much more time on, unless I run
> across another IC-28A with a different problem.

No new PA available or is it too costly?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Followup re: USB malfunction ? / Ezbus digital mixer /Ez-usb USB chip
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3a382fddd16c1f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 2:27 am
From: Franc Zabkar


On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:14:34 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

>Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
>news:9hrpv5p18m4bof22f4v1g401q36haha6aj@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 24 May 2010 08:35:10 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> put
>> finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>> >So perhaps dig out win95 disc , make up the 7405 bridge, fire up iicuni
>and
>> >from the Ezusb pdf ,fro
>> >
>> >5.7 Serial EEPROM Present,FirstByte is 0xB0
>> >Table 5-7. EEPROM Data Format for"B0"Load
>> >
>> >0 0xB0
>> >1 VendorID(VID)L
>> >2 VendorID(VID)H
>> >3 ProductID(PID)L
>> >4 ProductID(PID)H
>> >5 DeviceID(DID)L
>> >6 DeviceID(DID)H
>> >7 Notused
>> >
>> >and
>> >digital mixer VID 0B45 , PID_0001&MI_00
>> >perhaps just loading hex version of
>> >B0450B01000000 into the first 7 bytes instead of the current corrupted
>> >087910B004BCC0.....
>> >
>> >(I'm unsure about device ID at the moment)
>> >is enough to start the ball rolling to do a firmware upload for the mixer
>>
>> If all you want to do is to verify that the EEPROM data are intact,
>> then wouldn't it be simpler to just compute a checksum over the
>> contents?
>>
>> Could you upload the PROM dump so that we could have a look at it?
>>
>
>The first block of the corrupted EEPROM is
>(Maybe decoded erroneously as serial converted to parallel via 2x 4015 and
>clock divided by 16 by 4 stages of a 4020 and loaded into Logic analyser on
>negative going transitions). It is consistent thats all I can say
>
>S0000 087910B004BCC04B070420001828C000F0B20401604111AEF581030420009615

ISTM that your EEPROM dump must be in error.

According to section 5.6 (page 83) of the technical reference, the
first byte of the serial EEPROM can either be 0xB0 or 0xB2. If it is
anything other than these, or if an EEPROM is not present, then the
EZ-USB chip identifies itself with a VID of 0x0547 (Cypress
Semiconductor) and a PID of 0x2131 (EZ-USB).

Otherwise, if byte 0 is 0xB0, then the chip enumerates with the
VID/PID stored in the EEPROM. The host (ie your PC) then downloads
code into the EZ-USB's RAM and starts the 8051 CPU. The serial EEPROM
in this case would only need to store 7 bytes, so chips such as the
24LC00 would be used.

If byte 0 is 0xB2, then the EZ-USB core loads the EEPROM data into
EZ-USB RAM.

The datasheet states that ...

Serial EEPROM data can be loaded into two EZ-USB RAM spaces only.
• 8051 program/data RAM at 0x0000-0x1B40.
• The CPUCS register at 0x7F92

This suggests to me that the maximum ROM size need only be 6976 bytes
(= 0x1B40).

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 2:47 am
From: "N_Cook"


Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:raj906lcq7av8at5l32a9o860us8fhj55h@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:14:34 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> put
> finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
> >news:9hrpv5p18m4bof22f4v1g401q36haha6aj@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 24 May 2010 08:35:10 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> put
> >> finger to keyboard and composed:
> >>
> >> >So perhaps dig out win95 disc , make up the 7405 bridge, fire up
iicuni
> >and
> >> >from the Ezusb pdf ,fro
> >> >
>
> The datasheet states that ...
>
> Serial EEPROM data can be loaded into two EZ-USB RAM spaces only.
> . 8051 program/data RAM at 0x0000-0x1B40.
> . The CPUCS register at 0x7F92
>
> This suggests to me that the maximum ROM size need only be 6976 bytes
> (= 0x1B40).
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Could well be in error. Old bit of homebrew and have not used the logic
analyser for 10 years. Until I find time to cobble together the 7405 cct and
check with a X24C04 (plenty to hand) writing and reading known code via pc
and logic analyser I cannot be certain. Its a back-burner job

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unlabelled and disconnected mains primary wires
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/827164e09c1645bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 2:37 am
From: "N_Cook"


About year 1999, USA make, for export
In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest 0.1
ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced font)

--- A B C D E
A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---


Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 4:32 am
From: bok118@zonnet.nl (Gerard Bok)


On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:37:06 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:

>About year 1999, USA make, for export
>In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest 0.1
>ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
>Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced font)
>
>--- A B C D E
>A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
>B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
>C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
>D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
>E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
>
>
>Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
>what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
>Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?

Assuming the beast also has a secundary, --possably even marked
with a voltage-- I would apply that voltage (from another
transformer) and measure the voltages on the primary terminals.

--
met vriendelijke groet,
Gerard Bok


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 4:53 am
From: Arfa Daily


On 01/06/2010 10:37, N_Cook wrote:
> About year 1999, USA make, for export
> In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest 0.1
> ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
> Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced font)
>
> --- A B C D E
> A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
> B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
> C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
> D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
> E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
>
>
> Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
> what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
> Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?
>
>

Look for single wires, indicating winding ends, rather than taps ?

Arfa

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 6:12 am
From: "N_Cook"


Gerard Bok <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4c04ef34.3464695@News.Individual.NET...
> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:37:06 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >About year 1999, USA make, for export
> >In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest 0.1
> >ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
> >Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced
font)
> >
> >--- A B C D E
> >A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
> >B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
> >C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
> >D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
> >E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
> >
> >
> >Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
> >what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
> >Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?
>
> Assuming the beast also has a secundary, --possably even marked
> with a voltage-- I would apply that voltage (from another
> transformer) and measure the voltages on the primary terminals.
>
> --
> met vriendelijke groet,
> Gerard Bok


I hadn't actually thought of that but problem is which crosslink/s? for 110
or 130 V operation. From the deformation set into the leads it was probably
D-E used in the UK so D-A probably 250V. The others can stay disconnected if
need be , as unlikely to ever be used outside the UK

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV decoder repair, capacitor gets too hot
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a64f4c6ccba41cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 3:44 am
From: Franc Zabkar


On Sun, 30 May 2010 04:45:45 -0700 (PDT), Jeroni Paul
<JERONI.PAUL@terra.es> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>The waveform on this capacitor looks like a sawtooth, rises really
>fast and falls slowly until half cycle, then remains constant for the
>remaining half cycle. Amplitude around 0,4Vpp to 1Vpp depending on the
>capacitor used.

The current in an ideal capacitor is given by ...

I = C x dV/dt

Can you use this to estimate the current draw?

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 8:52 am
From: Cydrome Leader


Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:12:44 +1000, Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> put finger
> to keyboard and composed:
>
>>Quick check for 1000/25 and 1000/35 Panasonic caps
>>show ESR goes from .033 down to .025 for higher volt rating.
>
> I just tried a thought experiment, but it failed. :-(
>
> Let's say we have four identical capacitors, each with capacitance C,
> esr R, and voltage rating V.
>
> If we connect them as follows, we would expect the equivalent
> capacitor to have a capacitance C, esr R, and voltage rating 2V.
>
> || ||
> |---||--||---|
> | || || |
> o---| |---o
> | || || |
> |---||--||---|
> || ||
>
> - Franc Zabkar

that's how I read it, C and esr stay the same, and the voltage rating
could be upto 2V, assuming the C is really the same across all 4 caps.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Using Mozilla T-Bird on here ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ab7978b76cb06599?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 4:53 am
From: Arfa Daily


My son has just provided me with a new computer, on which he has put
Windoze 7. As there is no longer any O.E. included in the OS, he has put
this T-Bird program on as the mail client, and has also configured it to
serve as the news client for the text groups that I subscribe to. I
always liked O.E. for these, as I found that the way it layed out the
threads, was simple and intuitive. I also like the way that it was
simple to put a 'watch' on a thread, and as a result, colour the header,
and then see it go bold, when there was a new post to a thread.

Thus far, on T-Bird, as far as I can see, it seems to display
sub-threads within threads, rather than just stacking replies to a post
below that post. Is there somewhere that I can configure it to handle
the threading like O.E. did ? Also, how do I put a 'watch' on a thread,
and can I colour the headers as a result of putting a watch on ? What do
the little stars to the left of posts mean ? What have I switched on
when I highlight one ?

Before everyone starts howling that I should use a 'real' mail client, I
do also use X News, but I never much cared for the way that handled text
groups, which is why I used O.E. for them.

I know it's probably a bit of 'not liking change',(I'm getting old and
grumpy !) but I really did like O.E., so would it be better (for me at
least) to try the new Windoze Mail, which I understand is basically O.E.
for Vista and above, or possibly, full blown Outlook, which I have been
told runs fine on W7 ?

Gettin' more confused by the minute ...

Arfa


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 6:14 am
From: "William R. Walsh"


Hi!

> I always liked O.E. for these, as I found that the way it layed out
> the threads, was simple and intuitive. I also like the way that it
> was simple to put a 'watch' on a thread, and as a result, colour
> the header, and then see it go bold, when there was a new post
> to a thread.

You have no idea how it thrills me to hear you say that! Although I'd
readily admit that it's not the "best" or even close to the "best"
newsreader out there, OE always seemed to get the threading and
ordering right when nothing else would. While I didn't use the "watch
this" feature much, it was handy and well implemented.

I'm one of these Windows 2000 diehards, but I know the day is coming.
I have zero interest in Win7, so that leaves the Mac OS or Linux. I'm
steadily gravitating toward one or the other.

> Thus far, on T-Bird, as far as I can see, it seems to display
> sub-threads within threads, rather than just stacking replies to a
> post below that post.

Thunderbird defaults to a non-threaded view. To change this, navigate
to the newsgroup that you want and change the view (under the view
menu, and possibly another submenu beyond that) to "threaded".

> Also, how do I put a 'watch' on a thread, and can I colour the headers
> as a result of putting a watch on ?

I'm sure you can, but I haven't figured out how to do it yet. I
haven't had to, and "necessity is the mother of invention" or
something like that...

> What do the little stars to the left of posts mean ? What have I
> switched on when I highlight one ?

So far as I know, the stars mean that you "like" a message or somehow
want to call attention to it. You can sort the messages by their
starred status or skip between starred messages.

> to try the new Windoze Mail, which I understand is basically
> O.E. for Vista and above

I don't know that Windows Mail does Usenet. Other than that, it is
almost a dead ringer for OE in a lot of ways. (So why did they stop
the development and inclusion of OE again?)

> or possibly, full blown Outlook, which I have been told runs fine
> on W7 ?

Outlook doesn't read Usenet by itself. That job is farmed out to
Outlook Express, called up with the /outnews switch to hide the e-mail
functionality. In the light of Outlook Express disappearing, perhaps
Outlook itself has dropped support for Usenet.

That wouldn't surprise me, what with everyone and their dog dropping
Usenet support for these (mostly) idiotic web forums (a great many of
which seem to scrape Usenet for content anyway!).

William


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 6:18 am
From: Adrian C


On 01/06/2010 12:53, Arfa Daily wrote:
> My son has just provided me with a new computer, on which he has put
> Windoze 7. As there is no longer any O.E. included in the OS,

Doesn't Windows Mail handle newsgroups?

he has put
> this T-Bird program on as the mail client, and has also configured it to
> serve as the news client for the text groups that I subscribe to.

Don't use it for email. Find another program for that otherwise you'll
end up accidently posting private funnies about your budgies love life
to the group ;-)

I
> always liked O.E. for these, as I found that the way it layed out the
> threads, was simple and intuitive. I also like the way that it was
> simple to put a 'watch' on a thread, and as a result, colour the header,
> and then see it go bold, when there was a new post to a thread.

On TB, you'll see the first one _underlined_ if the thread has been
collapsed and new additions have arrived.

>
> Thus far, on T-Bird, as far as I can see, it seems to display
> sub-threads within threads, rather than just stacking replies to a post
> below that post. Is there somewhere that I can configure it to handle
> the threading like O.E. did ?

Confused. Been years since I used O.E. and on swapping I thought
Thunderbird was fairly similar in this respect. Subthreads within
threads is what ye got when you turned on threading!

Anyway ...

- View -> Threads -> All ... or Watched Threads with Unread

Also, how do I put a 'watch' on a thread,

The W key, (or - Message -> Watch Thread)

> and can I colour the headers as a result of putting a watch on ?

There is an 'eye' icon next to watched threads.

I do - Message -> Tag - > {list of tags} to change colour of the row.

A little fiddle I'm sure.

What do
> the little stars to the left of posts mean ? What have I switched on
> when I highlight one ?

Nothing, it's just for tagging the post for one of your following actions

- File -> Offline -> Get Starred Messages
- Edit -> Select -> Starred Messages
- View -> Sort By -> Star

--
Adrian C


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 8:28 am
From: Jeff Liebermann


On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 12:53:56 +0100, Arfa Daily
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>My son has just provided me with a new computer, on which he has put
>Windoze 7. As there is no longer any O.E. included in the OS, he has put
>this T-Bird program on as the mail client, and has also configured it to
>serve as the news client for the text groups that I subscribe to.
(...)

Thunderbird sorta works for Usenet News, but I would recommend Forte
Agent instead. $29 to register. 30 day free trial.
<http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 10:35 am
From: UCLAN


Adrian C wrote:

>> this T-Bird program on as the mail client, and has also configured it to
>> serve as the news client for the text groups that I subscribe to.
>
> Don't use it for email. Find another program for that otherwise you'll
> end up accidently posting private funnies about your budgies love life
> to the group ;-)

Only if you are brain dead.


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 10:37 am
From: UCLAN


Jeff Liebermann wrote:

>>My son has just provided me with a new computer, on which he has put
>>Windoze 7. As there is no longer any O.E. included in the OS, he has put
>>this T-Bird program on as the mail client, and has also configured it to
>>serve as the news client for the text groups that I subscribe to.
>
> (...)
>
> Thunderbird sorta works for Usenet News, but I would recommend Forte
> Agent instead. $29 to register. 30 day free trial.
> <http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php>

T-bird works fine for TEXT Usenet newsgroups.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 40Gb Western Digital hard drive
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d11c27dd9c7d80c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 5:11 am
From: mike


Michael A. Terrell wrote:

>
> One of the computers I refurbished for my 'Computers for Veterans'
> project was a small HP. I had everything ready, and turned it on one
> last time to run Belarc Advisor to print out the system information. As
> soon as I turned it on, flames shot out through the fan. I scrapped
> it. In fact, I scrap more HP computers than any other brand.

You say a small HP, was it the kind that allows only one hard drive
and one CD inside (no room for anything more )? If so, it sounds like
a re-badged EVO - seems like a lot of 'modern' mfgs. just change the
name of their crap these days, rather than fix the problem...

> I get free, used UPS fairly often, all with bad or missing
> batteries. One early unit had eight missing gel cells. they guy who
> gave it to me took them out and didn't make a note of what was there, or
> how they were wired. His excuse? "I thought all UPS used the same
> batteries." The guy is a broadcast engineer. He should klnow better.
> The OEM was out of business, so I have a large, heavy rack mount UPS on
> the shelf waiting to be scrapped. I am thinking about turning it into a
> rack mount server case.

What with the cost and low capacity of the correct replacement gel
cell battery/-ies for most UPS's, I found it works pretty good on the
higher capacity ones to make a hole in the side of the UPS and extend
the battery cables out to some wet cell deep cycle batteries (the 3
UPS's I've got all use 2 12v ones in series). Since the ones I'm
using now aren't industrial quality, I make sure the batteries are
fully charged before initially hooking them up. You need to make sure
there's good ventilation as a hydrogen gas build up could become a BIG
problem.

> I got another rack mount UPS the other day. It is an Alpha Ali Plus
> 700xl The batteries are missing. The OEM doesn't support it. They may
> be 12V 7.2AH but I'm not sure. That's too bad, because I picked up a
> free Dell 4350 server that I would like to put into a rack with the
> UPS. I want a shop server to hold all the drivers and other programs I
> use to repair computers, and to learn to administer Apache Server.

What is the difference between a server and a 'normal computer
anyway? I've got a Compaq Proliant DL 380 rack-mounted server (no
rack to mount it in though) I've been hoping to figure out how to use
it like a PC, just out of curiosity as much as anything else.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cordless Panasonic phones
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/703047b5418d2146?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 1:38 am
From: pebe

hr(bob) ;2432071]On May 31, 3:30*am, pebe
> pebe.6496...@diybanter.com wrote:-
> hr(bob) [email Wrote:
>
>
> -
> hofm...@att.net;2431696]On May 30, 1:28*pm, pebe
> pebe.6486...@diybanter.com wrote:-
> I recently purchased a pair of Panasonic KX-TG6522E cordless phones
> with
> answer machine. I have noticed that when I am having a conversation
> with
> someone I can hear his voice perfectly, but when I speak I can hear
> a
> tinny echo of my own voice delayed by about 200ms. However, my
> friend
> at the other end of the line can hear me perfectly.-
> -
> Has anyone experienced a similar fault? Is it likely to be a BT
> system
> fault, or a fault in the Panasonic phones?-
> -
> --
> pebe--
> -
> Talk a little softer and learn to live with it.-
>
> I'll never learn to live with a fault - that's admitting defeat!
>
> --
> pebe- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text --
>
> Do you have the same problem with other cordless phones?
I don't know. I haven't got another set to try. My previous phones were
Motorola and they developed a different fault entirely, so were binned
when I bought the Panasonics about 2 months ago.

I was hoping I would get a reply like 'Yes, the fault is probably due
to......', before I took them back to the retailer for a refund. I
really wasn't looking forward to entering my phone number list all over
again!


--
pebe


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 6:33 am
From: Meat Plow


On Tue, 01 Jun 2010 09:38:03 +0100, pebe ǝʇoɹʍ:

> hr(bob) ;2432071]On May 31, 3:30*am, pebe
>> pebe.6496...@diybanter.com wrote:-
>> hr(bob) [email Wrote:
>>
>>
>> -
>> hofm...@att.net;2431696]On May 30, 1:28*pm, pebe
>> pebe.6486...@diybanter.com wrote:-
>> I recently purchased a pair of Panasonic KX-TG6522E cordless phones
>> with
>> answer machine. I have noticed that when I am having a conversation
>> with
>> someone I can hear his voice perfectly, but when I speak I can hear a
>> tinny echo of my own voice delayed by about 200ms. However, my friend
>> at the other end of the line can hear me perfectly.- -
>> Has anyone experienced a similar fault? Is it likely to be a BT system
>> fault, or a fault in the Panasonic phones?- -
>> --
>> pebe--
>> -
>> Talk a little softer and learn to live with it.-
>>
>> I'll never learn to live with a fault - that's admitting defeat!
>>
>> --
>> pebe- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text --
>>
>> Do you have the same problem with other cordless phones?
> I don't know. I haven't got another set to try. My previous phones were
> Motorola and they developed a different fault entirely, so were binned
> when I bought the Panasonics about 2 months ago.
>
> I was hoping I would get a reply like 'Yes, the fault is probably due
> to......', before I took them back to the retailer for a refund. I
> really wasn't looking forward to entering my phone number list all over
> again!

If you can verify that the fault is the Panasonic phone then simply
return them for a refund. The verification only requires you to borrow
another wired phone to see if the echo is present or gone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: archiving on CD/DVD
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7865cc1a1f8d8699?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 6:16 am
From: "N_Cook"


As my statement about cleaning could be taken either way this is my
pre-existing statement on my tips files
"Cleaning CDs, DVDs etc
Always clean
data/audio or video CDs in a radial sense, not circumferentially, so that
any microscratches are across and not along the data paths."


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 8:56 am
From: "William R. Walsh"


Hi!

> I happpen to always knock down from x52 to 40 for normal burning
> (slightly larger pits) and then x32 for 3 yearlt archives.

Go more slowly than that, on the order of 4X/8X burns if you want
longevity.

I store my discs in a dark, cool and dry place on shelves in their
cases.

So far the best longevity I've seen is from paper, hard disks, CDs,
QIC80 backup tapes or even carefully stored floppies, in that order.

I was really a little astounded when I unearthed some QIC80 cartridges
and found that nearly all were readable. Only one was not, and it was
because the tape had rolled into the cartridge. It could probably have
been fixed. Of course, the QIC drive is so simple, and as long as the
rubber drive roller is good, it ought to work.

In my experience, DDS and SDLT tapes have proven to be unreliable even
after as little as three years of storage.

William

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lead free solder
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/23523e78c578fbf8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 8:54 am
From: Cydrome Leader


AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@premoveobthisox.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:50:32 +0100, Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>news:4wyMn.40637$3B3.19030@hurricane...
>>>
>>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:ae548bae-555d-4af8-932b-a3d787ea99c0@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>>> On May 26, 8:24 pm, AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 26 May 2010 08:47:05 -0700, Smitty Two <prestwh...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >In article <slrnhvqfec.atf.aznoma...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
>>>> > AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>> >> On Wed, 26 May 2010 05:25:21 -0700 (PDT), sparky <sparky...@yahoo.com>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >> >Lead free solder was invented by the government since they knew it
>>>> >> >would create more jobs (taxes) as the lead free solder caused trouble
>>>> >> >and things were thrown out instead of being repaired.
>>>>
>>>> >> surface mount, package pin densities, and labor costs have guaranteed
>>>> >> that almost nothing is repaired beyond the board level making solder
>>>> >> type
>>>> >> irrelevent. Even board level repairs are unlikely when the cost of
>>>> >> repairing an item is far higher than its replacement cost.
>>>>
>>>> >> Leadfree solder was created not to cause electronics be discarded
>>>> >> instead of repaired, but *because* electronics were being discarded in
>>>> >> great numbers. Even for items that can be repaired, they frequently
>>>> >> aren't repaired because anything older than about 18 months is
>>>> >> obsolete in the mind of the consumer.
>>>> >Which is why, to stray completely off-topic, we should replace income
>>>> >tax with a national sales tax. Let the 95% of the masses who are
>>>> >compulsive consumers foot the bill.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry. I didn't know I was responsding to a lunatic.
>>>
>>> Sorry too but I think that these "lunatics" make a whole lot of sense.
>>> I am one of the 5 percent who tries not to purchase anything new today
>>> because unfortunately "new" has become synonomous with "crap". Nobody
>>> wants you to repair anything anymore. Either the parts are so
>>> ridiculously expensive or they're just not available. I stocked up on
>>> lead solder a long time ago so that I'll be able to repair all my
>>> older reliable "hazardous" electronics well into the future, until the
>>> government makes all repair parts unavailable or comes into my house
>>> with a search warrant for lead based solder that is. So for the time
>>> being, fuck them and the horse their "stimulus package" rode in on.
>>> BTW how is the US military handling this reliability problem? They
>>> wouldn't usually care too much about a small item like lead
>>> poisoning...
>>>
>>> ****************
>>>
>>> The fuckwits who introduced the legislation are well aware that equipment
>>> made with lead free solder isn't safe, so aerospace, automotive, military
>>> and medical are exempt.
>>>
>
>>Amen to that ...
>
> Is there a big problem with consumers buying cheap aerospace,
> automotive, military or medical electronics and filling the landfills
> with them?

is there really a big problem with lead from electronics pouring out of
landfills?

I doubt it. the whole rohs thing and europeans are just stupid.


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 8:56 am
From: Cydrome Leader


ian field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> "AZ Nomad" <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote in message
> news:slrni07r11.jq6.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
>> On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:50:32 +0100, Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>news:4wyMn.40637$3B3.19030@hurricane...
>>>>
>>>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ae548bae-555d-4af8-932b-a3d787ea99c0@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On May 26, 8:24 pm, AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 26 May 2010 08:47:05 -0700, Smitty Two
>>>>> <prestwh...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >In article <slrnhvqfec.atf.aznoma...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
>>>>> > AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>> >> On Wed, 26 May 2010 05:25:21 -0700 (PDT), sparky
>>>>> >> <sparky...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >> >Lead free solder was invented by the government since they knew it
>>>>> >> >would create more jobs (taxes) as the lead free solder caused
>>>>> >> >trouble
>>>>> >> >and things were thrown out instead of being repaired.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> surface mount, package pin densities, and labor costs have
>>>>> >> guaranteed
>>>>> >> that almost nothing is repaired beyond the board level making solder
>>>>> >> type
>>>>> >> irrelevent. Even board level repairs are unlikely when the cost of
>>>>> >> repairing an item is far higher than its replacement cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Leadfree solder was created not to cause electronics be discarded
>>>>> >> instead of repaired, but *because* electronics were being discarded
>>>>> >> in
>>>>> >> great numbers. Even for items that can be repaired, they frequently
>>>>> >> aren't repaired because anything older than about 18 months is
>>>>> >> obsolete in the mind of the consumer.
>>>>> >Which is why, to stray completely off-topic, we should replace income
>>>>> >tax with a national sales tax. Let the 95% of the masses who are
>>>>> >compulsive consumers foot the bill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry. I didn't know I was responsding to a lunatic.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry too but I think that these "lunatics" make a whole lot of sense.
>>>> I am one of the 5 percent who tries not to purchase anything new today
>>>> because unfortunately "new" has become synonomous with "crap". Nobody
>>>> wants you to repair anything anymore. Either the parts are so
>>>> ridiculously expensive or they're just not available. I stocked up on
>>>> lead solder a long time ago so that I'll be able to repair all my
>>>> older reliable "hazardous" electronics well into the future, until the
>>>> government makes all repair parts unavailable or comes into my house
>>>> with a search warrant for lead based solder that is. So for the time
>>>> being, fuck them and the horse their "stimulus package" rode in on.
>>>> BTW how is the US military handling this reliability problem? They
>>>> wouldn't usually care too much about a small item like lead
>>>> poisoning...
>>>>
>>>> ****************
>>>>
>>>> The fuckwits who introduced the legislation are well aware that
>>>> equipment
>>>> made with lead free solder isn't safe, so aerospace, automotive,
>>>> military
>>>> and medical are exempt.
>>>>
>>
>>>Amen to that ...
>>
>> Is there a big problem with consumers buying cheap aerospace,
>> automotive, military or medical electronics and filling the landfills
>> with them?
>
> There are legal directives compelling that waste electronic equipment be
> collected at disposal sites and processed for recovery of metals and any
> other recyclable materials, so it makes no difference what specification it
> was originally built to.
>
> I'd be more concerned by the thousands of miles of abandoned (and some still
> in use!) lead water pipes still in the ground, rain run off from lead
> roofing sheets and hoorah-henries/rednecks peppering agricultural land with
> lead shot.

It's funny as I saw what looked like lead water pipes being installed in
italy in the 1980s.

That's how clever and advanced they are in europe.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 9:35 am
From: "ian field"

"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:hu3ajp$125$4@reader1.panix.com...
> ian field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> "AZ Nomad" <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote in message
>> news:slrni07r11.jq6.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
>>> On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:50:32 +0100, Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:4wyMn.40637$3B3.19030@hurricane...
>>>>>
>>>>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ae548bae-555d-4af8-932b-a3d787ea99c0@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On May 26, 8:24 pm, AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 26 May 2010 08:47:05 -0700, Smitty Two
>>>>>> <prestwh...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >In article
>>>>>> ><slrnhvqfec.atf.aznoma...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
>>>>>> > AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>>> >> On Wed, 26 May 2010 05:25:21 -0700 (PDT), sparky
>>>>>> >> <sparky...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> >Lead free solder was invented by the government since they knew
>>>>>> >> >it
>>>>>> >> >would create more jobs (taxes) as the lead free solder caused
>>>>>> >> >trouble
>>>>>> >> >and things were thrown out instead of being repaired.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> surface mount, package pin densities, and labor costs have
>>>>>> >> guaranteed
>>>>>> >> that almost nothing is repaired beyond the board level making
>>>>>> >> solder
>>>>>> >> type
>>>>>> >> irrelevent. Even board level repairs are unlikely when the cost of
>>>>>> >> repairing an item is far higher than its replacement cost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Leadfree solder was created not to cause electronics be discarded
>>>>>> >> instead of repaired, but *because* electronics were being
>>>>>> >> discarded
>>>>>> >> in
>>>>>> >> great numbers. Even for items that can be repaired, they
>>>>>> >> frequently
>>>>>> >> aren't repaired because anything older than about 18 months is
>>>>>> >> obsolete in the mind of the consumer.
>>>>>> >Which is why, to stray completely off-topic, we should replace
>>>>>> >income
>>>>>> >tax with a national sales tax. Let the 95% of the masses who are
>>>>>> >compulsive consumers foot the bill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry. I didn't know I was responsding to a lunatic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry too but I think that these "lunatics" make a whole lot of sense.
>>>>> I am one of the 5 percent who tries not to purchase anything new today
>>>>> because unfortunately "new" has become synonomous with "crap". Nobody
>>>>> wants you to repair anything anymore. Either the parts are so
>>>>> ridiculously expensive or they're just not available. I stocked up on
>>>>> lead solder a long time ago so that I'll be able to repair all my
>>>>> older reliable "hazardous" electronics well into the future, until the
>>>>> government makes all repair parts unavailable or comes into my house
>>>>> with a search warrant for lead based solder that is. So for the time
>>>>> being, fuck them and the horse their "stimulus package" rode in on.
>>>>> BTW how is the US military handling this reliability problem? They
>>>>> wouldn't usually care too much about a small item like lead
>>>>> poisoning...
>>>>>
>>>>> ****************
>>>>>
>>>>> The fuckwits who introduced the legislation are well aware that
>>>>> equipment
>>>>> made with lead free solder isn't safe, so aerospace, automotive,
>>>>> military
>>>>> and medical are exempt.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>Amen to that ...
>>>
>>> Is there a big problem with consumers buying cheap aerospace,
>>> automotive, military or medical electronics and filling the landfills
>>> with them?
>>
>> There are legal directives compelling that waste electronic equipment be
>> collected at disposal sites and processed for recovery of metals and any
>> other recyclable materials, so it makes no difference what specification
>> it
>> was originally built to.
>>
>> I'd be more concerned by the thousands of miles of abandoned (and some
>> still
>> in use!) lead water pipes still in the ground, rain run off from lead
>> roofing sheets and hoorah-henries/rednecks peppering agricultural land
>> with
>> lead shot.
>
> It's funny as I saw what looked like lead water pipes being installed in
> italy in the 1980s.
>
> That's how clever and advanced they are in europe.

Actually the Romans invented lead plumbing.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jun 1 2010 9:36 am
From: "ian field"

"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:hu3agh$125$3@reader1.panix.com...
> AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@premoveobthisox.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:50:32 +0100, Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>news:4wyMn.40637$3B3.19030@hurricane...
>>>>
>>>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:ae548bae-555d-4af8-932b-a3d787ea99c0@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On May 26, 8:24 pm, AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 26 May 2010 08:47:05 -0700, Smitty Two
>>>>> <prestwh...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >In article <slrnhvqfec.atf.aznoma...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
>>>>> > AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>> >> On Wed, 26 May 2010 05:25:21 -0700 (PDT), sparky
>>>>> >> <sparky...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >> >Lead free solder was invented by the government since they knew it
>>>>> >> >would create more jobs (taxes) as the lead free solder caused
>>>>> >> >trouble
>>>>> >> >and things were thrown out instead of being repaired.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> surface mount, package pin densities, and labor costs have
>>>>> >> guaranteed
>>>>> >> that almost nothing is repaired beyond the board level making
>>>>> >> solder
>>>>> >> type
>>>>> >> irrelevent. Even board level repairs are unlikely when the cost of
>>>>> >> repairing an item is far higher than its replacement cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> Leadfree solder was created not to cause electronics be discarded
>>>>> >> instead of repaired, but *because* electronics were being discarded
>>>>> >> in
>>>>> >> great numbers. Even for items that can be repaired, they frequently
>>>>> >> aren't repaired because anything older than about 18 months is
>>>>> >> obsolete in the mind of the consumer.
>>>>> >Which is why, to stray completely off-topic, we should replace income
>>>>> >tax with a national sales tax. Let the 95% of the masses who are
>>>>> >compulsive consumers foot the bill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry. I didn't know I was responsding to a lunatic.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry too but I think that these "lunatics" make a whole lot of sense.
>>>> I am one of the 5 percent who tries not to purchase anything new today
>>>> because unfortunately "new" has become synonomous with "crap". Nobody
>>>> wants you to repair anything anymore. Either the parts are so
>>>> ridiculously expensive or they're just not available. I stocked up on
>>>> lead solder a long time ago so that I'll be able to repair all my
>>>> older reliable "hazardous" electronics well into the future, until the
>>>> government makes all repair parts unavailable or comes into my house
>>>> with a search warrant for lead based solder that is. So for the time
>>>> being, fuck them and the horse their "stimulus package" rode in on.
>>>> BTW how is the US military handling this reliability problem? They
>>>> wouldn't usually care too much about a small item like lead
>>>> poisoning...
>>>>
>>>> ****************
>>>>
>>>> The fuckwits who introduced the legislation are well aware that
>>>> equipment
>>>> made with lead free solder isn't safe, so aerospace, automotive,
>>>> military
>>>> and medical are exempt.
>>>>
>>
>>>Amen to that ...
>>
>> Is there a big problem with consumers buying cheap aerospace,
>> automotive, military or medical electronics and filling the landfills
>> with them?
>
> is there really a big problem with lead from electronics pouring out of
> landfills?
>
> I doubt it. the whole rohs thing and europeans are just stupid.

Only insofar as we obey the braindead wankers in Brussels!


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