sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Repairing flexible pcb connector track? - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ae4dd2364002cc94?hl=en
* Grain-of-wheat bulbs - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/80801ab1fbd67e8f?hl=en
* I HACK $2000 FROM PAYPAL - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f5bd8ce6a3812f67?hl=en
* Need schematic or service manual - Advent - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b7b89d2a59488e9a?hl=en
* hissing sound coming from behind woofer on one side AR11 - 10 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3a9cce9766f809ce?hl=en
* Cheap White Nike Air Force One Shoes Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/
) (PayPal Payment) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0a3bc80564b27e9?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Repairing flexible pcb connector track?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ae4dd2364002cc94?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:07 am
From: "N_Cook"

Ian P <elanman99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8bdrgeFvrtU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2010.07.29.14.56.20@hahahahahahahah.nutz...
> > On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 07:47:37 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:
> >
> >> This is "not unlike" fixing a PCB trace. How would you do that?
> >>
> >> What about globbing some eutectic solder over the traces (even though
it
> >> shorts them), then using "something" to break the solder into
individual
> >> "strands" while it's still liquid?
> >>
> >> I'm wondering whether zebra strip would be conductive enough? It might
> >> not matter over such a short (ar, ar) distance.
> >>
> >> I wish you success. And if this happened this morning, please put it
> >> aside and relax. Work on something else, something easy, and try to
> >> forget about this problem for the time being.
> >
> > Flexible pcb connector as in a ribbon connector? I've had some limited
> > success repairing these with conductive paint designed to repair
> > automotive window heaters.
>
> Its a paper thin flexible pcb, golden brown in colour which I think is
made
> from Mylar. Because of the narrowness of the tracks and their spacing I
> doubt it could be done with paint.
>
> Ian
>
>

If heat resistant then probably kapton tape. If signal levels and you have a
fairy godmother then anisotropic tape is another possibility , if you can
bare back to the underlying condusctors .

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 3:14 am
From: "Ian P"

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:gcp4o.319800$Yb4.133179@hurricane...
>
>
> "Ian P" <elanman99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8bdsinF6u0U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:bHh4o.61130$0e3.22364@hurricane...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ian P" <elanman99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:8bdgspFuetU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> In the course of doing some modifications to a very expensive Sony 3
>>>> chip HD camcorder I have accidentally cut through 3 tracks on the edge
>>>> of a mylar? flexible cable. On the good side the damage is very
>>>> accessible but the bad bit is the tracks are only 0.1mm wide on a 0.2mm
>>>> pitch! Ideally one would just replace the flex pcb but in practice that
>>>> would involve dismantling the camera and lens to get to all the places
>>>> the pcb branches out to, and in some places it actually goes into the
>>>> lens mechanism itself.
>>>>
>>>> I am considering abrading off the top mylar coating to expose the
>>>> copper then bridging the breaks with some very narrow pitch zebra
>>>> strip. My other idea is to make my own miniature insulation
>>>> displacement/piercing connector using a stack of razor blade bits
>>>> sandwiched with insulation layers.
>>>>
>>>> The last option would be to use wire links and solder but I think this
>>>> could only be done with some sort of mechanical micropositioning rig in
>>>> view of the small sizes involved.
>>>>
>>>> I would be interested to hear any thoughts or experiences if anyone has
>>>> any.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Based on my experience of trying to repair accidental damage to
>>> flexiprints (yes, it happens to us all no matter how long we've been in
>>> the game and how experienced we are !) I think that you are going to
>>> struggle to get a fix on one of that tiny pitch. I have had plenty of
>>> success with abrading and soldering ones of a slightly greater pitch,
>>> doing it with a tiny needle-point soldering tip and under a microscope,
>>> and using a single strand from superflex instrument cable, such as is
>>> used for better quality meter leads, for instance.
>>>
>>> I don't know whether this is a commercial job, or one for a friend, or
>>> maybe even for yourself, but before you commit to any strategy that's
>>> going to waste a lot of time, and end up with no fix at the end of it
>>> anyway, the job would probably stand being left for a day or two, before
>>> revisiting it with a clear head, to look at how hard replacing the
>>> flexiprint would *really* be. I've often found that things that look as
>>> though they are going to be a copper-bottomed-gold-plated bitch to do,
>>> are actually not so bad, when looked at again after you've calmed down,
>>> and forced a degree of 'san fairy ann' into your head over it. If you
>>> have a copy of the service manual or can obtain one, a look at the parts
>>> list will tell you if replacement is even an option (if you're really
>>> unlucky it might be an integral part of the lens assembly) and if it is
>>> available, a look at the exploded view diagram, would be helpful to
>>> determine how many 'hidden' branches the flexiprint has, and where they
>>> go.
>>>
>>> I really feel for you on this one. I've been there many times over the
>>> years ...
>>>
>>> Good luck with it, and please post back, and let us know how you get on
>>> with it :-\
>>>
>>> Arfa
>>
>> Arfa
>>
>> Thanks for your advice. As you postulated this pcb is integral with the
>> lens and although I have the full service manual for the camera it give
>> no information at all on the lens which is a bought in item (not
>> removable though). The job is not really commercial, for a friend or
>> myself but it a sort of combination of all three. I caused the damage
>> though and I need to repair it because there is not really any
>> alternative.
>>
>> I have in the past repaired and modified boards and components and used
>> thin wire just as you described, this cable though has track and spacing
>> widths that are really challenging, and I don't have any microscope.
>>
>> I have lots of old bits of similar flexible boards and cables so I am
>> going to experiment with them.
>>
>> Ian
>>
> Another possibility, if you get to the point of 'kill or cure', and
> depending on how much space you've got to play with. I have had
> considerable success on remaking the ends of flexiprints, that have failed
> from bending at the stiffening film at the connection point. You can
> carefully knife off the last few mm of cable, then re-expose the print
> 'fingers' by abrading the plastic. I actually use a blunt curved scalpel
> blade. Once the fingers have been thus exposed, the cable can be
> reinserted in the connector, and then the original stiffener pushed back
> in behind to give a good tension on the connector again. Suppose now that
> you could cut right across where the damage is, and re-expose connector
> fingers at each cut end. If you could then obtain connectors, and solder
> them back to back, you could then use this as a joint to remake your
> cable. I realise that with such a fine pitch, the soldering would not be
> easy, but at least you would be doing it on the bench, in the open, and
> with good light. A strong magnifier would be enough to be able to see what
> you are doing, and some liquid flux, and desoldering braid, should make
> the job do-able.
>
> Along similar lines, another possibility might be to again cut right
> across the cable, and expose the conductors on the upper surface of one
> end, and the lower of the other. Then treat it as a surface mount
> soldering job. If you use liquid flux, solder paste, and hot air, and do a
> good job of lining up the tracks and preventing movement before you start,
> there's a good chance of success at making a satisfactory join. Capillary
> action will pull the solder onto the tracks, and providing you've been
> sparing with it, there shouldn't be any shorts between tracks.
>
> Arfa

Arfa

You have made some very good suggestions there and I can tell you've had
some experience in repairing things others would not even consider! I can
see no reason why the lapped joint idea wouldn't work, however the backside
of the flex is probably the substrate that the copper was plated onto and
scraping that off might be very tricky.

I'm leaning towards fine wire soldered jumpers across the breaks.

Ian

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:31 am
From: Smitty Two

In article <8bfn0bF2vrU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Ian P" <elanman99@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm leaning towards fine wire soldered jumpers across the breaks.

I wouldn't hesitate to do this, but I'd not attempt it whatsoever
without a microscope. Can you borrow one?

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:38 pm
From: "Ian P"

"Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-F9ADB5.08312430072010@mx01.eternal-september.org...
> In article <8bfn0bF2vrU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Ian P" <elanman99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm leaning towards fine wire soldered jumpers across the breaks.
>
> I wouldn't hesitate to do this, but I'd not attempt it whatsoever
> without a microscope. Can you borrow one?

Unfortunately I don't have anything other than strong magnifying glasses and
I cannot think of anyone or anywhere I could borrow one from.

In the past I have tried soldering etc whilst looking through a magnifying
glass but have struggled because of only really looking through one eye so
really stereo magnification is what I need.

Ian

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:03 pm
From: bz

"Ian P" <elanman99@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:8bgri8FvlmU1@mid.individual.net:

>
> "Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:prestwhich-F9ADB5.08312430072010@mx01.eternal-september.org...
>> In article <8bfn0bF2vrU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Ian P" <elanman99@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm leaning towards fine wire soldered jumpers across the breaks.
>>
>> I wouldn't hesitate to do this, but I'd not attempt it whatsoever
>> without a microscope. Can you borrow one?
>
> Unfortunately I don't have anything other than strong magnifying glasses
> and I cannot think of anyone or anywhere I could borrow one from.
>
> In the past I have tried soldering etc whilst looking through a
> magnifying glass but have struggled because of only really looking
> through one eye so really stereo magnification is what I need.

Do you have a video camera that can do closeups?
Can you work while watching what you are doing via a monitor?

If you have a piece of similar cable that you can glue along side the cut
one, you might be able to use straight pins to pierce both conductors
simultaneously and then turn the pins into 'rivets' permanently connecting
the broken conductors through the 'bridging' conductor.
Stagger the 'rivets' so they don't short to each other.

You may be able to get some very thin diameter straight pins such as used
for mounting butterflies or from a hobby store, used as nails, etc on small
models. Perhaps even with a copper coating, so that you could touch them
with a bit of solder to 'make things permanent'.

Try it first on some pieces of similar flex from the trash/junk box.

Stagger the pins to give more room to work.

Good luck!

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 7:10 pm
From: whit3rd

On Jul 29, 7:17 am, "Ian P" <elanma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In the course of doing some modifications to a very expensive Sony 3 chip HD
> camcorder I have accidentally cut through 3 tracks on the edge of a mylar?
> flexible cable.

If you're very lucky, there are redundant traces and you
can jumper to them from the nonworking conductors at the
connectors (on the non-flexing boards). Otherwise, contact
Sony for a new part (or subassembly).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Grain-of-wheat bulbs
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/80801ab1fbd67e8f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 4:26 am
From: Spehro Pefhany

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:07:21 -0700, the renowned "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

>I'm looking for a couple of these to repair some (antique) equipment. They
>should be 1.5V, about 30mA and produce a relatively 'white' light at this
>current. Some Radio Shack 6V, 100mA bulbs draw approximately the correct
>current at 1.5V, but they are too reddish and dim to be of any use.
>
>These are used in an old photographic light meter as a null indicator. LEDs
>won't work at this voltage level (too dim and no where near linear
>brightness vs voltage).

Try a hobby shop that caters to model railroaders (lots of other
interesting stuff there too!)

Eg.
http://www.grsmicroliting.com/eshop/index.html?target=dept_5.html&lang=en-us
"1.5V and 3.0V Super GOR Bulbs"

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 7:59 am
From: J. Todd

In article <Noadne83-tm2XszRnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@posted.isomediainc>,
paul@hovnanian.com says...
> I'm looking for a couple of these to repair some (antique) equipment. They
> should be 1.5V, about 30mA and produce a relatively 'white' light at this
> current. Some Radio Shack 6V, 100mA bulbs draw approximately the correct
> current at 1.5V, but they are too reddish and dim to be of any use.
>
> These are used in an old photographic light meter as a null indicator. LEDs
> won't work at this voltage level (too dim and no where near linear
> brightness vs voltage).
>
>
www.cir-kitconcepts.com

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:03 am
From: Sofa Slug

Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
> I'm looking for a couple of these to repair some (antique) equipment. They
> should be 1.5V, about 30mA and produce a relatively 'white' light at this
> current. Some Radio Shack 6V, 100mA bulbs draw approximately the correct
> current at 1.5V, but they are too reddish and dim to be of any use.
>
> These are used in an old photographic light meter as a null indicator. LEDs
> won't work at this voltage level (too dim and no where near linear
> brightness vs voltage).
>

1.5v @ 40 ma. lamp (All Electronics): http://tinyurl.com/24khy9l
...they also carry a 3v @ 55 ma. version.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I HACK $2000 FROM PAYPAL
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f5bd8ce6a3812f67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:01 am
From: free money

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Due to high security risks, i have hidden the PayPal Form link in an
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need schematic or service manual - Advent
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b7b89d2a59488e9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:37 am
From: Chuck

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:55:33 -0500, "Mark Zacharias"
<mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote:

>Need info on the Advent Powered Louspeaker.
>
>I used to have this stuff somewhere...
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mark Z.
Mark,

I just sent you an email with tips and schematic. Chuck

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hissing sound coming from behind woofer on one side AR11
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3a9cce9766f809ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 7:18 am
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:05:54 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

>> I thought I made this point in the second posting by saying what I did
>> to try to trace it by pushing in the woofer (you cant push in a tweeter
>> that easily), the sound is coming from behind the woofer.
>
> I'm thinking now that this is a windup. Looking at the the account that
> this has come from.
>
> dmanzaluni ?
>
> Yes, I think that's maybe true ...
>
> Arfa

My reply to the original post was something like "check to see if there
is a snake behind the speaker."

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 7:29 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> My reply to the original post was something like
> "check to see if there is a snake behind the speaker."

I will sometimes reject as a troll a posting that everyone else accepts,
simply because it doesn't "ring true".

Most people do such a bad job of describing what's going on, that a
perfectly legitimate (though odd) situation can come out sounding quite
phony.

I'm starting to think this is a fake.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 1:53 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:29:02 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> My reply to the original post was something like "check to see if there
>> is a snake behind the speaker."
>
> I will sometimes reject as a troll a posting that everyone else accepts,
> simply because it doesn't "ring true".
>
> Most people do such a bad job of describing what's going on, that a
> perfectly legitimate (though odd) situation can come out sounding quite
> phony.
>
> I'm starting to think this is a fake.

I knew it from the start. It's in my blood :)

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:03 pm
From: Amanda Ripanykhazov

Thank you for your confidence everyone: If I wanted to wind everyone
up, dont you think I would have found a funnier way of doing it than
this?

If someone can get me a way of posting a wav file to a NG, let me know
and I will stick a microphone in front of the speaker and post
whatever it records

Meanwhile I will take the speaker out and report back if/when I have a
result

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:41 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:03:39 -0700, Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:

> Thank you for your confidence everyone: If I wanted to wind everyone up,
> dont you think I would have found a funnier way of doing it than this?

Not if you're just not too funny in the first place.

> If someone can get me a way of posting a wav file to a NG, let me know
> and I will stick a microphone in front of the speaker and post whatever
> it records
>
> Meanwhile I will take the speaker out and report back if/when I have a
> result

But you've already subbed the speaker and the hiss went away or so I
thought I had previously read.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:59 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Thank you for your confidence everyone: If I wanted to wind
> everyone up, dont you think I would have found a funnier way
> of doing it than this?

You'd be amazed at some of the stupid stuff you see in UseNet groups. I've
never seen any of these that were actually funny.

The problem is that you are describing something that doesn't seem to make
any sense, or have any obvious explanation. This quite naturally makes
people suspicious.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 3:01 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> Meanwhile I will take the speaker out and report back
>> if/when I have a result

> But you've already subbed the speaker and the hiss went
> away or so I thought I had previously read.

And no one here is aware of a "mechanism" that causes speakers to produce
hissing sounds on their own, especially when you say the sound is not
related to the program material or its volume.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 4:09 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:01:33 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>>> Meanwhile I will take the speaker out and report back if/when I have a
>>> result
>
>> But you've already subbed the speaker and the hiss went away or so I
>> thought I had previously read.
>
> And no one here is aware of a "mechanism" that causes speakers to
> produce hissing sounds on their own, especially when you say the sound
> is not related to the program material or its volume.

Especially if it is just a passive enclosure. Now a woofer with a built
in amp is an entirely different story.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:35 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i2vi0a$pf1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Thank you for your confidence everyone: If I wanted to wind
>> everyone up, dont you think I would have found a funnier way
>> of doing it than this?
>
> You'd be amazed at some of the stupid stuff you see in UseNet groups. I've
> never seen any of these that were actually funny.
>
> The problem is that you are describing something that doesn't seem to make
> any sense, or have any obvious explanation. This quite naturally makes
> people suspicious.
>
>

Also, the source sounds suspicious, you must admit ? I mean, dmanzaluni ?
That must be "the man's a loony", mustn't it ? And the nic. Ripanykhazov.
"Rippin' ya clothes off" maybe ?

Dunno. Sorry if I'm being unfair to you, but the more I look at this, the
more it doesn't make any sense, and the more it begins to look like a usenet
windup ...

Arfa

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:25 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Dunno. Sorry if I'm being unfair to you, but the more I look
> at this, the more it doesn't make any sense, and the more
> it begins to look like a usenet windup ...

Of course, if it is true, we might read the following in the newspaper...

Woman killed by poisonous snake

Miss so-and-so was killed yesterday when bitten by a viper hiding behind one
of her loudspeakers. The animal had curled up there for warmth, and had
attracted her attention by making random hissing noises when music was
played.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap White Nike Air Force One Shoes Wholesale(http://www.24
hoursneakers.com/) (PayPal Payment)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0a3bc80564b27e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

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