sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* HP 214B Pulse Generator repair question - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c99ffb38a259a6ba?hl=en
* Cheap Vibram Five Fingers Shoes www.shoestrade.biz - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1466990ff7896e0e?hl=en
* MESMARISING VIDEOS&HOT PHOTOS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/59a89c2135bfd265?hl=en
* Plasma TV Foggy area - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9e5cdc2b5ff03be3?hl=en
* Supergluing your fingers together - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/27d3b5cbe57935fb?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HP 214B Pulse Generator repair question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c99ffb38a259a6ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 12:50 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 17:29:03 +0200, Richard Rasker
<spamtrap@linetec.nl> wrote:

>Thank you for your swift reply -- but unfortunately, that sites offers the
>exact same diagram/manual file I already have. The trouble is that there's
>no parts list included, so I can't look up any component values.
>
>So any suggestions are still appreciated :-)

Try getting it from the Agilent site:
<http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/00214-90012.pdf>
I'm having a problem downloading it (hangs 25% of the way through) so
I can't tell if it's the same as the one on BAMA.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 12:57 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 00:50:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Try getting it from the Agilent site:
><http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/00214-90012.pdf>
>I'm having a problem downloading it (hangs 25% of the way through) so
>I can't tell if it's the same as the one on BAMA.

Never mind. It's the same as the one on BAMA. No parts list.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 1:02 pm
From: whit3rd

On Sep 7, 12:27 am, Richard Rasker <spamt...@linetec.nl> wrote:

> I'm legally responsible for whatever goes wrong (further damage or injury)
> if I put in the wrong parts, most notably fuses.

Put it another way: you're responsible, and want to get the machine
both working and working safely. The fuse selection isn't a 'legal'
decision, it's a technical one. You'll use technical data, judgement,
and take technical advice.

The 'correct' value fuse can't be critically important, if its failure
spewed
bits of metal in all directions the first time it interrupted the
circuit...
and you still want the machine back into operation.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 1:36 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:02:29 -0700, whit3rd wrote:

> On Sep 7, 12:27 am, Richard Rasker <spamt...@linetec.nl> wrote:
>
>> I'm legally responsible for whatever goes wrong (further damage or
>> injury) if I put in the wrong parts, most notably fuses.
>
> Put it another way: you're responsible, and want to get the machine both
> working and working safely. The fuse selection isn't a 'legal'
> decision, it's a technical one. You'll use technical data, judgement,
> and take technical advice.
>
> The 'correct' value fuse can't be critically important, if its failure
> spewed
> bits of metal in all directions the first time it interrupted the
> circuit...
> and you still want the machine back into operation.

This guy just doesn't seem to get it. I could see if he was working on a
GE MRI machine or Agilent DNA spectrometer. But this is an obsolete pulse
generator from the 80's. Besides repair is he also legally responsible
for calibration and certification?

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 9:20 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:27:00 +0200, Richard Rasker
<spamtrap@linetec.nl> wrote:

>>>> Since the fuse (F602) has literally exploded, there's no way to
>>>> determine its original current rating.

Place an amps guesser in place of the fuse and measure the operating
current. Ummm... replace the blown transistors first. Then select a
value about 2-3 times the measured current. If you're charging a big
filter capacitor, consider a slow blow fuse.

>I'm legally responsible for whatever goes wrong (further damage or injury)
>if I put in the wrong parts, most notably fuses.

If that's true, then walk away. You were given an impossible
assignment, where there is insufficient information to return the unit
to its original operating condition without you having to make a
decision. Should a liability situation arise, one item the court
might need to determine is whether you are competent to repair the
equipment. Be sure to document your decisions, supply references,
sources, and justifications for your actions. Attorneys just love
impressive documentation and paper trails.

I haven't seen any mention of dried out electrolytic capacitors, which
are the most common source of failures in 20+ year old equipment. An
ESR tester will be required to make the determination. If it still
has the original electrolytics in the power supply section, I would be
seriously worried. I just repaired an HP 8620A sweep generator
mainframe. The major problem was dried out electrolytics.

<http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/esrmeter.html>
I buy a lot of older HP test gear off ebay as well as older
radios. Most of this gear is 25-60 years old and needless
to say, the condition of the electrolytic capacitors is
somewhat suspect...

>Furthermore, this thing is
>used in a university laboratory by quite a number of people, so I really
>need to get it right.

No problem. Get one of these university people involved in the repair
so that you have someone available to blame should things go awry.
Students are expendible anyway. Be sure to let them make a few
decisions. If litigation and liability are you primary concerns, it's
always best to have a scapegoat handy.

>So in this particular case, guesswork is out of the
>question (but if I had to guess, I'd say that the fuse should be something
>between 1 and 4 amps, and the tubes look quite similar to PL519's).

Life is nothing but a succession of calculated risks, which are call
guesswork when they fail.

Spend $150 on a carcass. Look inside for the missing values. Steal
what parts are needed:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350353282625>

>Richard Rasker

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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TOPIC: Cheap Vibram Five Fingers Shoes www.shoestrade.biz
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1466990ff7896e0e?hl=en
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TOPIC: Plasma TV Foggy area
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9e5cdc2b5ff03be3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 9:47 am
From: "Michael Kennedy"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i62pa5$b5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> I'd get in touch with Hitachi today, or tomorrow at the latest (even
> though
> "in touch with tomorrow" was Toshiba's slogan). I'm not so sure this is a
> case of the protective front surface pulling away from the panel.
>
>

My best guess by looking at it is something that is on the inside of the
panel, but certainly not the actual pixels. It is definitely tolerable. If
anyone saw it they would think the TV just needed to be cleaned in that
spot.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 10:26 am
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 01:47:51 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:

> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:i62pa5$b5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I'd get in touch with Hitachi today, or tomorrow at the latest (even
>> though
>> "in touch with tomorrow" was Toshiba's slogan). I'm not so sure this is
>> a case of the protective front surface pulling away from the panel.
>>
>>
>>
> My best guess by looking at it is something that is on the inside of the
> panel, but certainly not the actual pixels. It is definitely tolerable.
> If anyone saw it they would think the TV just needed to be cleaned in
> that spot.

The construction on the viewing side is a dielectric layer then the front
glass. Sandwiched in the dielectric are electrodes. I think the front
glass seals the gas cells so there would be no chance of removing it if
this is the case. I don't know what the dielectric is made of, possible
glass with an oxide coating. If that were the case one would assume that
seals the cells.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 1:51 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> My best guess by looking at it is something that is on the
> inside of the panel, but certainly not the actual pixels. It is
> definitely tolerable. If anyone saw it they would think the
> TV just needed to be cleaned in that spot.

It would drive me stark raving bonkers.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 8:45 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:51:29 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> My best guess by looking at it is something that is on the inside of
>> the panel, but certainly not the actual pixels. It is definitely
>> tolerable. If anyone saw it they would think the TV just needed to be
>> cleaned in that spot.
>
> It would drive me stark raving bonkers.

My son for some untold reason scratched the glossy protective cover on my
51" Panasonic rear projector. It was done with a pencil and maybe an inch
long vertical. It took me a very long time to stop staring at that
particular spot that wasn't anywhere near the center of the screen. I
think too that it would be too much of a distraction for me to watch a
set with a big smudge anywhere on the screen.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supergluing your fingers together
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/27d3b5cbe57935fb?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 10:36 am
From: "Paul Hovnanian P.E."

AZ Nomad wrote:

> Has anybody ever found an application where superglue works well
> except on human skin? I find the crap brittle as hell and have yet to
> see anything glued with it last more than a few weeks before breaking.

Glue tiny parts to a lathe turning plate. As long as you are just turning
the parts with light force, they stay on. A small tap removes them.

--
Paul Hovnanian paul@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 11:44 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <slrni80d99.pl9.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:20:39 -0700, Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> wrote:
>>>Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly glued
>>>to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first but no
>>>effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I was
>>>concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls of
>>>acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a rotating
>>>wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector worked, but anyone
>>>elses experiences/advice for the next time?
>
>>Keeping a bottle of superglue debonder around is a cheap investment.
>>If you go to a hobby store which carries a selection of cyanoacrylate
>>glues (usually of different viscosities and bonding speeds) you ought
>>to find a supply of debonder in the same rack.
>
>
>Has anybody ever found an application where superglue works well
>except on human skin? I find the crap brittle as hell and have yet to
>see anything glued with it last more than a few weeks before breaking.

Superglue works much better on some things when you
use the accelerator. It comes in a separate spray bottle.
I often try to use it as a tempoary hold, and then use silicone rtv
or other glue. Silicone withstands movement, and superglue does not.
I also see JB Weld easily breaking with some vibration.

It did work good for me months at a time, gluing rubber motor mounts
on my 64 mustang. I made it cross country.

NASA used to supply superglue in a large plastic bottle, with a large
top which never got clogged. The trouble was worrying about spilling
it.

greg

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 7 2010 11:41 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:44:48 GMT, zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)
wrote:

>Superglue works much better on some things when you
>use the accelerator. It comes in a separate spray bottle.

Sorta. It does seem to make a better joint, but it also really speeds
up the hardening. About 2 to 4 seconds is what I see. That may be
too fast depending on what you're doing. The accelerator is usually
Toluidine, a form of methylbenzine.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluidine>
Alcohol does much the same thing, and is much cheaper and safer.

Also safer is baking soda. Just dust a little on the joint and it
hardens almost instantly.
<http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/10/stuff_eng_tech_ca_glue.htm>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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