sci.electronics.repair - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Self-Repair Manifesto
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/047741f126542a73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 12:05 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

<http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 4:14 am
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/14/2010 2:05 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> <http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>

Mmmm, fix it goodness.

I'd spotted this earlier on there I fixed it (I think)
thanks for the link to a very clean source of it.

Jeff
the other other one.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 10:10 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:14:05 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
<jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:

>On 11/14/2010 2:05 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> <http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>
>
>Mmmm, fix it goodness.
>
>I'd spotted this earlier on there I fixed it (I think)
>thanks for the link to a very clean source of it.
>
>Jeff
>the other other one.

Y'er welcome. I printed a few for my palatial office.

I like the line "Repair teaches Engineering", but would prefer my own
"Learn by Destroying".

I backtracked the iFixit version from the credits near the bottom:
<http://www.misterjalopy.com/?page_id=219>
<http://www.platform21.nl/download/4375>

My repair warranty:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/diploma.jpg>

There hasn't been much progress in improving the quality of the
customers since I wrote this 16 years ago:
Support, Santa Cruz Style or Where Do These People Come From?
<http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/95q1/compnightmares.html>

Jeff (If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me) L.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another reason ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a9a63c157742e708?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 3:57 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> Freedom is important -- critical, vital -- with respect to what we think,
>> which people we associate with, which books we read, which church
>> we attend, whom we have sex with, etc.

>> It is of less than zero importance with respect to the cars we drive or
the
>> lamps we illuminate our houses with. The economic stability of this
country
>> is far more important. Those who scream "FREEDOM! FREEDOM! FREEDOM!"
>> are >> the ones doing the most to destroy this country's economic
vitality.

> Think about it, you are sounding like those that want 100% control
> over you and you're willing to give it.. Has it ever occurred to you
> that our leadership is using that as an excuse for them screwing up
> so bad?

Uh... you obviously didn't read what I wrote.

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 4:07 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5175c30f6cdave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <ibm6km$o5k$2@news.eternal-september.org>,
> William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
>> when Simon Morley returns to the 20th century from the 19th with his
>> girlfriend Julia Charbonneau, she loves the brightness and clarity of
>> incandescent lamps, but he says he prefers gas light.
>
> Both are pretty continuous spectrum light sources. The problem with both
> CFL and LED is they ain't - they have troughs and spikes. Which is what
> makes them unpleasant to many, IMHO.
>
> --
> *It's not hard to meet expenses... they're everywhere.
>
> Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Seconded. Nail on head and all that. As I have said before, they are a
substitute not a replacement technology, at this point in their development.

Arfa

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 4:14 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ibnge2$rve$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> if that's what you want,then MOVE to somewhere that does that sort of
>> stuff. don't try to enact it here in the US. We value our freedom.
>
> Freedom is important -- critical, vital -- with respect to what we think,
> which people we associate with, which books we read, which church we
> attend,
> whom we have sex with, etc.
>
> It is of less than zero importance with respect to the cars we drive or
> the
> lamps we illuminate our houses with. The economic stability of this
> country
> is far more important. Those who scream "FREEDOM! FREEDOM! FREEDOM!" are
> the
> ones doing the most to destroy this country's economic vitality.
>
>

But it is not of "less than zero importance". We are talking of a principle
here, and you can't have a principle that's valid for one set of ideas, and
not for a different set that don't suit your particular views. A principle
must be valid right across the board, otherwise, it's not one ...

You can disagree with some aspects of the way a principle is applied to
life, but you can't invalidate it for those conditions, just because of that
disagreement.

Arfa

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 5:50 am
From: Jim Yanik

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:ibng6s$r7b$2@news.eternal-september.org:

> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
> news:Xns9E2FC3226D716jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44...
>> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:ibm6km$o5k$2@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>>> From my view, governments /should/ be forcing (yes, forcing) people
>>> to do what's necessary to save energy. Market forces are highly
>>> effective in making short-term changes; they are much less effective
>>> in effecting proper long-term changes. (Things usually get worse
>>> until they abruptly collapse.) The problem, of course, is making
>>> sure the forced changes are rational and occur in the correct order.
>
>> if that's what you want,then MOVE to somewhere that does that sort
>> of stuff. don't try to enact it here in the US. We value our freedom.
>
> Yeah, our freedom to ruin everything without regard for the
> consequences.
>
> Think about what would have happened if the US government had, after
> WW II, FORCED auto makers to gradually improve fuel mileage at a
> "reasonable" rate. The world would almost certainly be quite
> different.
>
>
>

are you familiar with CAFE? Corporate Average Fuel Economy law,that
manadates higher MPG for passenger vehicles?

the one that was responsible for more people buying TRUCKS AND SUVs with
far worse fuel economy,and for clogging our roads with even bigger
landbarges.

That was government's way of forcing better mileage. It didn't work very
well.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 5:55 am
From: Jim Yanik

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:ibnge2$rve$2@news.eternal-september.org:

>> if that's what you want,then MOVE to somewhere that does that sort of
>> stuff. don't try to enact it here in the US. We value our freedom.
>
> Freedom is important -- critical, vital -- with respect to what we
> think, which people we associate with, which books we read, which
> church we attend, whom we have sex with, etc.
>
> It is of less than zero importance with respect to the cars we drive
> or the lamps we illuminate our houses with. The economic stability of
> this country is far more important. Those who scream "FREEDOM!
> FREEDOM! FREEDOM!" are the ones doing the most to destroy this
> country's economic vitality.
>
>
>

I disagee.
the ability to move freely about our nation is very important,and private
autos are one of the big successes of our nation.
They are very vital to our economic stability,vitality,and prosperity.

And government is not the best for determining what is best for
people.Their track record in that respect is atrocious.
FYI,government has NO BUSINESS determining what sort of lamps we must
use,or how efficient our autos must be.
there's no power for that given to them in our Constitution.

to repeat;
if you want to force people to do what you think is best for them,then move
somewhere else. Please.We dont need any communists here.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 5:56 am
From: Jim Yanik

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:iboisb$7mt$2@news.eternal-september.org:

>>> Freedom is important -- critical, vital -- with respect to what we
>>> think, which people we associate with, which books we read, which
>>> church we attend, whom we have sex with, etc.
>
>>> It is of less than zero importance with respect to the cars we drive
>>> or
> the
>>> lamps we illuminate our houses with. The economic stability of this
> country
>>> is far more important. Those who scream "FREEDOM! FREEDOM! FREEDOM!"
>>> are >> the ones doing the most to destroy this country's economic
> vitality.
>
>> Think about it, you are sounding like those that want 100% control
>> over you and you're willing to give it.. Has it ever occurred to you
>> that our leadership is using that as an excuse for them screwing up
>> so bad?
>
> Uh... you obviously didn't read what I wrote.
>
>
>

you wrote a bunch of nonsense.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 8:00 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9E305ADB72408jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44...
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:ibnge2$rve$2@news.eternal-september.org:

>>> if that's what you want,then MOVE to somewhere that does that sort of
>>> stuff. don't try to enact it here in the US. We value our freedom.

>> Freedom is important -- critical, vital -- with respect to what we
>> think, which people we associate with, which books we read, which
>> church we attend, whom we have sex with, etc.

>> It is of less than zero importance with respect to the cars we drive
>> or the lamps we illuminate our houses with. The economic stability of
>> this country is far more important. Those who scream "FREEDOM!
>> FREEDOM! FREEDOM!" are the ones doing the most to destroy this
>> country's economic vitality.

> I disagee.
> the ability to move freely about our nation is very important,
> and private autos are one of the big successes of our nation.
> They are very vital to our economic stability,vitality,and prosperity.

WHERE DID I EVER SAY PRIVATE CARS ARE A BAD THING, OR SHOULD BE OUTLAWED?
WHERE, WHERE, WHERE? SHOW ME.

Do you deliberately distort EVERYTHING YOU READ to fit your conservative
Weltanschauung?

The CAFE largely flopped, because it overlooked the fact that Americans have
traditionally loved big cars, and CAFE did nothing to FORCE people to buy
smaller cars.

> And government is not the best for determining what is best
> for people.Their track record in that respect is atrocious.

I know, I know... Let's get rid of the Food & Drug administration, so that
people won't be forced to purchase products that might be dangerous to their
health. And let's get rid of the Federal Safety Commission. After all, the
best way to find out if your child might strangle itself in a crib is to
give the child a chance and see what happens.

One of the purposes of government IS to regulate human behavior. But of
course, sending someone to prison when they commit murder is such a
/terrible/ restraint on personal freedom, is it not?

> FYI,government has NO BUSINESS determining what sort of
> lamps we must use,or how efficient our autos must be.
> there's no power for that given to them in our Constitution.

FYI, there is. It's the Interstate Commerce clause, which gives the Federal
government pretty much carte blanche in such matters. (This is typical.
Conservatives generally have no idea of what the Constitution or Bill of
Rights /actually/ say.)

You know, during WW II there was rationing. People got coupon books that
controlled how much of particular types of food they could buy, how many
pairs of shoes and sets of auto tires they could purchase. This was
necessary to make sure our soldiers had the weapons and supplies they
needed. DO YOU OBJECT?

We are at war with countries who control a substantial percentage of our
energy supply, and have been involved in this war since the end of WW II.
What would you have us do about this? Wait until energy becomes so expensive
that people are forced to use less -- and American industry is further
damaged by high energy costs -- or FORCE people to use less NOW?

When this country is reduced to third-world economic status, enjoy your
precious "freedom" to choose the light bulb you want.

-----------------------

Just to clarify a point... The government should force people to use
more-efficient lighting, whether or not they like it -- the forcing or the
bulbs themselves.

It would be easy enough -- and an excellent idea -- for the government to
prohibit the manufacture & import of conventional Edison-based tungsten
lamps after, say, 2015. There are good CFL replacements for them /right
now/.

However... there are no satisfactory replacements for decorative lamps
(especially the smaller ones), nor would it make sense to use a CFL in a
refrigerator (or in any application where the light is turned on only
briefly). Except for chandeliers, there might be little point in replacing
such lamps with more-efficient versions, as they don't consume anywhere
nearly as much electricity as general lighting does.

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 9:38 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 07:50:29 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>are you familiar with CAFE? Corporate Average Fuel Economy law,that
>manadates higher MPG for passenger vehicles?
>
>the one that was responsible for more people buying TRUCKS AND SUVs with
>far worse fuel economy,and for clogging our roads with even bigger
>landbarges.
>
>That was government's way of forcing better mileage. It didn't work very
>well.

CAFE is a problem, but that wasn't the original reason for consumers
to buy over SUV/truck monsters. It was the "gas guzzler tax" of 1978.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Tax_Act#Gas_guzzler_tax>
<http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/>
<http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/guzzler/420f06042.htm>
The buyer of a new vehicle pays $1,000 to $7,700 in taxes to the feds
if it doesn't get at least 22 mpg. However, if the vehicle is over
6000 lbs GVW, it's exempt as a light truck and no taxes are charged.

For a 6000 lb GVW behemoth SUV, that should pay the $7,700 tax, at
$3/gallon, that's 2000 gallons of gas. With a 12 mpg typical gas
mileage for a big SUV, that's 72,000 miles. The average driver burns
12,000 to 20,000 miles per year. Not paying this tax would therefore
pay for all the gasoline consumed in the first 3.5 to 7.0 years of
operation. Since this tax generates considerable revenue, the feds
wouldn't even think of fixing the counter incentive problem.

It's quite a sales pitch:
Buy this new oversized gas guzzler, and the money you save
will pay for the first 3.5 to 7.0 years of driving.

What I usually find on the sticker is a 6004 lb GVW. Yet, when the
vehicle is actually weighed empty (curb weight), it usually measures
considerably less. I have no idea how the GVW is actually calculated,
but I suspect there's a bit of creative number juggling happening in
order to get the weight up to over 6000 lbs. GVW includes payload,
passengers, and all options. They probably crammed a half dozen
aspiring Sumo wrestlers into the vehicle as passengers, while filling
the trunk with lead bricks until the springs almost flattened.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 9:49 am
From: Jim Yanik

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:ibp13d$sno$2@news.eternal-september.org:

> "Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
> news:Xns9E305ADB72408jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44...
>> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:ibnge2$rve$2@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>>>> if that's what you want,then MOVE to somewhere that does that sort
>>>> of stuff. don't try to enact it here in the US. We value our
>>>> freedom.
>
>>> Freedom is important -- critical, vital -- with respect to what we
>>> think, which people we associate with, which books we read, which
>>> church we attend, whom we have sex with, etc.
>
>>> It is of less than zero importance with respect to the cars we drive
>>> or the lamps we illuminate our houses with. The economic stability
>>> of this country is far more important. Those who scream "FREEDOM!
>>> FREEDOM! FREEDOM!" are the ones doing the most to destroy this
>>> country's economic vitality.
>
>> I disagee.
>> the ability to move freely about our nation is very important,
>> and private autos are one of the big successes of our nation.
>> They are very vital to our economic stability,vitality,and
>> prosperity.
>
> WHERE DID I EVER SAY PRIVATE CARS ARE A BAD THING, OR SHOULD BE
> OUTLAWED? WHERE, WHERE, WHERE? SHOW ME.

show me where I said that you said any of that.
>
> Do you deliberately distort EVERYTHING YOU READ to fit your
> conservative Weltanschauung?

why do you ASSume things that have not been said?
>
> The CAFE largely flopped, because it overlooked the fact that
> Americans have traditionally loved big cars, and CAFE did nothing to
> FORCE people to buy smaller cars.
>
>
>> And government is not the best for determining what is best
>> for people.Their track record in that respect is atrocious.
>
> I know, I know... Let's get rid of the Food & Drug administration, so
> that people won't be forced to purchase products that might be
> dangerous to their health. And let's get rid of the Federal Safety
> Commission. After all, the best way to find out if your child might
> strangle itself in a crib is to give the child a chance and see what
> happens.

that Safety Commission is one more thing(of many) Federal government should
NOT be involved with. If people want those services,companies will spring
up to provide them,like Consumer Reports.

>
> One of the purposes of government IS to regulate human behavior. But
> of course, sending someone to prison when they commit murder is such a
> /terrible/ restraint on personal freedom, is it not?
>
>
>> FYI,government has NO BUSINESS determining what sort of
>> lamps we must use,or how efficient our autos must be.
>> there's no power for that given to them in our Constitution.
>
> FYI, there is. It's the Interstate Commerce clause, which gives the
> Federal government pretty much carte blanche in such matters. (This is
> typical. Conservatives generally have no idea of what the Constitution
> or Bill of Rights /actually/ say.)

Bullshit.
regulating TRADE between the states has nothing to do with auto fuel
economy. that Interstate Commerce clause has been abused almost as much as
the "provide for the general welfare" comment on the Preamble.
>
> You know, during WW II there was rationing. People got coupon books
> that controlled how much of particular types of food they could buy,
> how many pairs of shoes and sets of auto tires they could purchase.
> This was necessary to make sure our soldiers had the weapons and
> supplies they needed. DO YOU OBJECT?

There was a WAR being fought. there's provision for that,it makes
sense,and it was for a limited time.
>
> We are at war with countries who control a substantial percentage of
> our energy supply, and have been involved in this war since the end of
> WW II. What would you have us do about this?

DEVELOP OUR OWN ENERGY SOURCES. Instead of blocking them off.

> Wait until energy becomes
> so expensive that people are forced to use less -- and American
> industry is further damaged by high energy costs -- or FORCE people to
> use less NOW?
>
> When this country is reduced to third-world economic status, enjoy
> your precious "freedom" to choose the light bulb you want.

Our nation is being "reduced to third-world status" by people like you,who
have government interfere in everything. Our status began dropping when we
began accepting socialism.

>
> -----------------------
>
> Just to clarify a point... The government should force people to use
> more-efficient lighting, whether or not they like it -- the forcing or
> the bulbs themselves.

I disagree. the Federal government has NO BUSINESS in this area.

>
> It would be easy enough -- and an excellent idea -- for the government
> to prohibit the manufacture & import of conventional Edison-based
> tungsten lamps after, say, 2015. There are good CFL replacements for
> them /right now/.
>
> However... there are no satisfactory replacements for decorative lamps
> (especially the smaller ones), nor would it make sense to use a CFL in
> a refrigerator (or in any application where the light is turned on
> only briefly). Except for chandeliers, there might be little point in
> replacing such lamps with more-efficient versions, as they don't
> consume anywhere nearly as much electricity as general lighting does.

Yeah,force people to change instead of building more nuclear power plants
and having cheap reliable electricity.

You need to move to commie-land.
Then you can force people to do as you want them to do.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 9:54 am
From: LSMFT

Arfa Daily wrote:
> Remember my post a few weeks back "Another Reason to Hate CFLs" ? Well,
> here's yet another. That one that I put in my bench light, that started
> it all, has now become so dim, that it is worse than useless. It has
> been getting worse and worse over the last week. There are signs of the
> ballast enclosure running hot, so I guess that any electros in there,
> have just cooked dry, due to the fact that it is predominantly hanging
> down, in a semi-enclosed 'shade', much like a lot of household room and
> decorative lighting does. They are fundamentally a crap technology that
> has been forced on a largely unwanting public, by supposedly green
> issues with a dubious foundation in fact.
>
> I know a lot of people on here seem to like the dreadful things, and
> swear by them, but my continuing experience, judged from when they first
> appeared, right up until now, just makes me want to swear *at* them ...
>
> I have now found an internet site selling all varieties of
> incandescents, including 60 watt pearl, so I shall be stocking up post
> haste. I have also just started trying out the halogen versions of
> traditional light bulbs, which still seem to make it into the eco-bollox
> "book of energy savers", even though they only consume a few watts less
> than their equivalent light-output 'traditional' tungsten cousins. Thus
> far, I am impressed. I now have a 70 watt actual, 100 watt equivalent,
> fitted to my hallway main light fixture. It is very bright, very easy
> (for me anyway) to see by, and has a good colour spectrum, not in the
> slightest way offensive to my eyes, unlike the CFLs, which no matter how
> much anyone says that *they* can't tell the difference with, *I* can ...
> d :-\
>
> Arfa

One bad bulb condemns the entire line. Good thinking.
I use them everywhere and they work great. There are different brands,
some made in the US, some in China or other places. Some have a short
warm up cycle others have longer ones.
I will never go back to incandescent heater bulbs.
If anything I will move onto to LEDs. Do you have stone wheels on your car?

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 10:29 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> What I usually find on the sticker is a 6004 lb GVW. Yet, when the
> vehicle is actually weighed empty (curb weight), it usually measures
> considerably less. I have no idea how the GVW is actually calculated,
> but I suspect there's a bit of creative number juggling happening in
> order to get the weight up to over 6000 lbs. GVW includes payload,
> passengers, and all options. They probably crammed a half dozen
> aspiring Sumo wrestlers into the vehicle as passengers, while filling
> the trunk with lead bricks until the springs almost flattened.

My '73 Chevy Step Van weighed 6150, with five gallons of gasoline,
and me out of the truck. The commercial tag was based on weight, and
would have went up at 6200 pounds.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 10:31 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

LSMFT wrote:
>
> One bad bulb condemns the entire line. Good thinking.
> I use them everywhere and they work great. There are different brands,
> some made in the US, some in China or other places. Some have a short
> warm up cycle others have longer ones.
> I will never go back to incandescent heater bulbs.
> If anything I will move onto to LEDs. Do you have stone wheels on your car?

Have you ever seen stone wheels on a car, and cartoons don't count?
Do you ever think before posting stupid, meaninless analogies?

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 11:28 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:29:38 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> What I usually find on the sticker is a 6004 lb GVW. Yet, when the
>> vehicle is actually weighed empty (curb weight), it usually measures
>> considerably less. I have no idea how the GVW is actually calculated,
>> but I suspect there's a bit of creative number juggling happening in
>> order to get the weight up to over 6000 lbs. GVW includes payload,
>> passengers, and all options. They probably crammed a half dozen
>> aspiring Sumo wrestlers into the vehicle as passengers, while filling
>> the trunk with lead bricks until the springs almost flattened.

> My '73 Chevy Step Van weighed 6150, with five gallons of gasoline,
>and me out of the truck. The commercial tag was based on weight, and
>would have went up at 6200 pounds.

I wasn't referring to real commercial vehicles. My comments are in
reference to what would normally be considered a large passenger car
(such as an SUV or crew/family pickup), that has been "fattened" to
exceed 6000 lbs to avoid paying the gas guzzler tax.

My long gone 1972 Internationl 3/4 ton 1210 pickup, with service
boxes, had a GVW on the stick of 6300 lbs. However, when I weighed it
empty for the weight sticker at the dump, with 24 gallons of gas, and
all the tools and junk I could hide inside the boxes, they gave me a
sticker for 6200 lbs. If I had been in the drivers seat, it would
have hit 6300 lbs.

A short discussion of the tax benefits of buying a Hummer H2 behmoth
is at:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer_H2#Tax_benefits_in_the_United_States>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 4:29 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:29:38 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>
> >> What I usually find on the sticker is a 6004 lb GVW. Yet, when the
> >> vehicle is actually weighed empty (curb weight), it usually measures
> >> considerably less. I have no idea how the GVW is actually calculated,
> >> but I suspect there's a bit of creative number juggling happening in
> >> order to get the weight up to over 6000 lbs. GVW includes payload,
> >> passengers, and all options. They probably crammed a half dozen
> >> aspiring Sumo wrestlers into the vehicle as passengers, while filling
> >> the trunk with lead bricks until the springs almost flattened.
>
> > My '73 Chevy Step Van weighed 6150, with five gallons of gasoline,
> >and me out of the truck. The commercial tag was based on weight, and
> >would have went up at 6200 pounds.
>
> I wasn't referring to real commercial vehicles. My comments are in
> reference to what would normally be considered a large passenger car
> (such as an SUV or crew/family pickup), that has been "fattened" to
> exceed 6000 lbs to avoid paying the gas guzzler tax.
>
> My long gone 1972 Internationl 3/4 ton 1210 pickup, with service
> boxes, had a GVW on the stick of 6300 lbs. However, when I weighed it
> empty for the weight sticker at the dump, with 24 gallons of gas, and
> all the tools and junk I could hide inside the boxes, they gave me a
> sticker for 6200 lbs. If I had been in the drivers seat, it would
> have hit 6300 lbs.

The StepVan was my service truck. it had a 292 inline six, and got
more that 22 miles per gallon with a couple tons of cargo.

> A short discussion of the tax benefits of buying a Hummer H2 behmoth
> is at:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer_H2#Tax_benefits_in_the_United_States>

The down side is it makes you look like an impotent fool when you
drive one. 'Viagra on wheels!' :)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 12:18 pm
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"David Farber" <farberbear.unspam@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ibjv1s$9na$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Mark Zacharias wrote:
>> I would like to take a moment to tell you all a bit about my brother.
>>
>> Jay Zacharias passed away November 5 in Seattle, Washington. He was
>> 56 years old.
>>
>> He was an accomplished broadcast engineer for Tribune Broadcasting,
>> Journal Broadcasting, and at various times for each of the regular
>> over-the-air stations in Wichita, KS (USA). He supervised the MTS
>> stereo audio conversions for KPTS and KWCH in Wichita, and later
>> Journal and Tribune's conversions to the digital broadcast formats in
>> Traverse City MI. and in Seattle. In each case he did not merely
>> "supervise"; he was hands-on physically involved.
>>
>> In the 80's and early 90's Jay was a product support engineer for the
>> old Ampex Magnetic Tape Division, and supervised the restoration of
>> many old analog masters which had deteriorated with binder problems,
>> and was an expert on the subject.
>>
>> He is survived by his wife Mary, and two daughters (well, and me...)
>>
>> Jay was suffering liver cancer, and knew the end was coming. You
>> never could imagine anyone handling this so well, a tribute to his
>> belief in a life after. He did his best to make sure his work and
>> personal affairs were in the best possible order. He was able to work
>> up until the last couple weeks.
>> Ironically, he gave me his Tektronix multimeter and 'scope. I haven't
>> had the heart to even open the box.
>>
>> RIP bro'. You will be missed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Z.
>
> Dear Mark,
>
> I am sorry to hear about the passing of your brother Jay. My condolences
> to you and your family.
>
> Regards,
>
> David Farber
>

Thanks, Dave. We just had the funeral yesterday.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 14 2010 4:44 pm
From: Steve Kraus

I'm trying to figure power factor for a large transformer-type DC power
supply. This is pretty much just for my own amusement (so I can figure
power draw from current and voltage readings) so there's nothing critical
here.

This device runs on 208V 3-phase (as in each leg is 120V from neutral but
there's no neutral connection). The 3 transformer primaries are wye
connected but there's no other connection to the wye point. It draws about
18A per leg.

I decided to compare current and voltage waveforms using a dual trace
scope.

To look at current, rather than put a small resistance shunt in one line I
decided to take advantage of the small voltage drop that occurs between the
breaker panel and the cutoff switch for the device. So I had one channel
of the scope looking at the voltage difference between one leg at the
cutoff switch and the "hot" side of a 120V outlet on the same leg.

For voltage I just looked at one leg vs. neutral.

I'll skip over boring details about having to float the common side of the
scope in order to do this without creating a short circuit. Anyway, it
seemed to work. Emphasis on "seemed."

What I saw looked like voltage vs. current was out of phase by about 90°.
Is that what one would reasonably expect going into a transformer? Seems
kind of extreme so I wonder if my entire setup was bogus in some way.

Part of the reason for the question is that in retrospect I should have
probably been looking at voltage as measured from one input leg to the wye
point, not neutral since that's what a transformer primary sees. But I
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