sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Lithium Cells Exploding - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/181af8dd8c2e6fde?hl=en
* RAC Portable Power Station, need DC adaptor spec - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b105b15b5ad9d933?hl=en
* american beer inferier? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/79cf21563e25cfa2?hl=en
* free shipping paypal payment wholesale CLOTHING jacket T-shirt long sleeve
suit and hoody(Franklin Marshall,Monclereiderdown,nike,adidas,a&f,d&g,ed
harday,bape,bbc,lv,gucci,armani,polo, poul smith and so on)/http://www.24hour-
buy.com/ - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f2eea3d0bcf50b87?hl=en
* Upper current limit on micro-miniature tactile snap-action switches? - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e17b57ca23889202?hl=en
* PSU voltage instability - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/640c794886b1e24f?hl=en
* Wholesale Nike Shoes,Air Max Shoes,Nike Shox,Air Jordan Sneakers . - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d1f7055db48055a6?hl=en
* Cheap Wholesale Nike Air Max 97 <free shipping paypal payment> <http://www.
people-trade.com /> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1ddd6dd42941a827?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lithium Cells Exploding
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/181af8dd8c2e6fde?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 10:28 am
From: "Michael Kennedy"

"Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:rv2dnT5AiZMot2DRnZ2dnVY3go-dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:idi8pg$5j0$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Michael Kennedy <mike@com> wrote in message
>> news:ZOCdncHYbe3p4mHRnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
>>> luggage on airplanes in the US.
>>>
>>> Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
>>> them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.
>>>
>>> I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone
>>> have
>>> any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching fire? Since
>>> this seems to be what they are concerned with.[
>>> -
>>> Mike
>>>
>>
>>
>> Have they also banned flying on planes using Rolls Royce Trent engines
>> which
>> are proven to catch fire and explode in flight.
> haha.
>
> No they aren't worried about solving any acutal safety problems. They are
> just here to inoconvience everyone to the virge of insanity.
>

On that note as well.. Did anyone know there is a 1lb / 455gram limit on all
parcels flying airmail to the USA? It isnt being enforced everywhere yet,
but this is what the TSA requested / demanded.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 11:43 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 03:28:05 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com>
wrote:

>On that note as well.. Did anyone know there is a 1lb / 455gram limit on all
>parcels flying airmail to the USA? It isnt being enforced everywhere yet,
>but this is what the TSA requested / demanded.

Lovely. The TSA imposes this limit and Japan retaliates.
<http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20101117a5.html>

Here's the brilliant logic:
Packages containing explosives were found in Britain and
Dubai on two cargo planes from Yemen bound for the U.S.
in late October. The TSA heightened its aviation alert
level since then.
Therefore, anything weighing over 1 lb must be a bomb.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 2:05 pm
From: "Brenda Ann"

"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
news:HcydnSwdoYmntmDRnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com...

On that note as well.. Did anyone know there is a 1lb / 455gram limit on all
parcels flying airmail to the USA? It isnt being enforced everywhere yet,
but this is what the TSA requested / demanded.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That would effectively ban all parcels over 1lb to the US, since there is no
longer any international surface mail into or out of the US. Such a rule
will never fly, as it would pretty much curtail any international small
quantity commerce. Would REALLY piss off the troops, too, as it would pretty
much mean they couldn't send anything home other than letters. Would also
severly cripple military contractors, etc.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 2:17 pm
From: "Brenda Ann"

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:q3fqf694eb6h6q0i2err0cdk1qbe46f2bf@4ax.com...
Here's the brilliant logic:
Packages containing explosives were found in Britain and
Dubai on two cargo planes from Yemen bound for the U.S.
in late October. The TSA heightened its aviation alert
level since then.
Therefore, anything weighing over 1 lb must be a bomb.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lovely... the grandest of idiocy, just in time for the holiday mailing
season..

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 3:40 pm
From: Spehro Pefhany

On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 07:17:34 -0600, the renowned Jim Yanik
<jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
>news:l22pf69g6sgk8thhkk91hrpp9njtths033@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 15:15:24 +0900, "Michael Kennedy" <mike@com> wrote:
>>
>>>I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in
>>>checked luggage on airplanes in the US.
>>>
>>>Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never
>>>had them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff
>>>out.
>>>
>>>I would understand if this referred to litium-ion cells.. Does anyone
>>>have any bad expirence with standard lithium coin cells catching
>>>fire? Since this seems to be what they are concerned with.[
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>><http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiummangdioxide-coin_psds.pdf>
>> "Energizer lithium coin batteries are exempt from the
>> classification as dangerous goods as they meet the requirements
>> of the special provisions listed below. (Essentially, they are
>> properly packaged and labeled, contain less than 1 gram of
>> lithium and pass the tests defined in UN model regulation
>> section 38.3)."
>>
>> However, these comments may have gotting their attention:
>> "Handling: Accidental short circuit for a few seconds will not
>> seriously affect the battery. Prolonged short circuit will
>> cause the battery to lose energy, generate significant heat
>> and can cause the safety release vent to open. Sources of
>> short circuits include jumbled batteries in bulk containers,
>> metal jewelry, metal covered tables or metal belts used for
>> assembly of batteries into devices. Damaging a lithium battery
>> may result in an internal short circuit."
>>
>> "The contents of an open battery, including a vented battery,
>> when exposed to water, may result in a fire and/or explosion.
>> Crushed or damaged batteries may result in a fire."
>>
>> I had a 2032 coin cell get shorted by my car keys while in my pocket.
>> No explosion or fire, but it sure burned my leg.
>>
>> Not exactly a coin battery, but interesting:
>> Primary Lithium battery explodes!
>><http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?121303-Primary-Lithi
>>um-battery-explodes!>
>>
>
>is the flight prohibition against lithium CELLS or battery PACKS?
>like the laptop PC battery packs that have had fire problems,and would have
>exposed contacts that could be shorted by other items in the baggage.
>Or spare cellphone battery packs,out of their OEM packaging.

Digikey won't ship an order by air that contains even a single Li
button cell!

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RAC Portable Power Station, need DC adaptor spec
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b105b15b5ad9d933?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 10:42 am
From: Andy Burns

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> I suppose it depends on your definition of tiny, but 17 amp.hr is a lot
> smaller than any battery in any car I've owned or seen. Both my current
> ones have 70 Ah types.

Yeah, but how many minutes would your 70Ah crank for, and how many
seconds does it need to crank for (assuming there's no other problem
with the engine)?

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 3:39 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
>
> In article <o9adnUNjide7i2DRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <P8SdnUBQ2eqr92HRnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> > > Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > > So how much current do you think they're actually capable of
> > > > > delivering--say with the little battery fairly fresh and fully
> > > > > charged?
> > >
> > > > Too many variables. What is the amp hour rating of the battery?
> > >
> > > Tiny in automotive terms.
>
> > Really? My jump packs have 17 Ah batteries.
>
> I suppose it depends on your definition of tiny, but 17 amp.hr is a lot
> smaller than any battery in any car I've owned or seen. Both my current
> ones have 70 Ah types.

Gee, that's damn close to the 24% figure isn't it? 17/.24 = 70.83

> > Product ID: BSL1117
> > Cold Cranking Amps: 240
> > Voltage: 12
> > Termination: NUT & BOLT
> > Chemistry: SLA OR VRLA VALVE REGULATED S
> > Weight: 13.3
> > Width: 2.99
> > Length: 7.13
> > Height: 6.57
>
> > My truck uses a size 27 battery with these specs:
>
> > Product ID: MTP-27
> > Amps: 1000
> > Cranking Amps: 1000
> > Cold Cranking Amps: 810
> > Voltage: 12
> > Termination: A
> > Pro-rata Warranty: 85
> > Weight: 47.4
> > Width: 6.81
> > Length: 12.06
> > Height: 8.88
>
> > So, it has 24% of the rating of the truck battery which isn't
> > 'tiny'.
>
> Err, you don't appear to have given the amp.hr capacity - the very thing
> you mentioned.

Very few car batteries are given an amp our rating in the US since
they are not used without a charging circuit. If you look at the given
spces you can get an idea though.

> > It is intended to start a vehicle with a run down battery, not
> > one with mechanical problems.
> > The portable pack is designed with a
> > different type of battery, as well. The available current is determined
> > by the plate area and thickness.
>
> > I've seen someone use 12V alarm batteries to jump start a service
> > truck. They were rated at 7 Ah.
>
> Batteries? Parallel them and they become like a larger one.
>
> > > > What is the internal resistance of the switch?
> > >
> > > Dunno
> > >
> > > > The resistance of the
> > > > cables?
> > >
> > > Mine has 16mm� cables. The resistance of the alligator clamps is more
> > > likely the limiting factor.
>
> > No, all of it is important. If the resistance of the clamps is as
> > high as the leads, they will overheat since all the resistance is at the
> > same spot rather than distributed along the length of the cables.
>
> > > > The resistance of the starter motor? The temperature? How clean
> > > > are the battery clamps, and what is the resistance of the battery
> > > > cables? The resistance of the starter solenoid?
> > >
> > > Non of which matters since the power pack makers claim a maximum
> > > output.
>
> > BS. They all matter, if you aren't an ignorant troll.
>
> > What do you think the short circuit current of a fully charged 12V
> > car battery is?
>
> Are you trolling? The maker of the jump start pack claims a maximum
> current. Since they can't possibly know exactly what the starter motor etc
> draw is, just how is it relevant?

It is very relevant, if you stop and think about it.

> My point is (with experience of several jump start packs including
> expensive ones) is that they will not do lots of starts of a vehicle with
> a flat battery without permanent damage to the SLA. Somewhere round a
> dozen or so seems to be it.

You keep changing the subject.
--
For the last time: I am not a mad scientist, I'm just a very ticked off
scientist!!!

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 5:25 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 12/6/2010 8:58 AM Michael A. Terrell spake thus:

> "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
>
>> In article <P8SdnUBQ2eqr92HRnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
>> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> [I wrote:]
>>>
>>>> So how much current do you think they're actually capable of
>>>> delivering--say with the little battery fairly fresh and fully
>>>> charged?
>>>
>>> Too many variables. What is the amp hour rating of the battery?
>>
>> Tiny in automotive terms.
>
>
> Really? My jump packs have 17 Ah batteries.
>
> Product ID: BSL1117
> Cold Cranking Amps: 240
> Voltage: 12
> Termination: NUT & BOLT
> Chemistry: SLA OR VRLA VALVE REGULATED S
> Weight: 13.3
> Width: 2.99
> Length: 7.13
> Height: 6.57
>
>
> My truck uses a size 27 battery with these specs:
>
> Product ID: MTP-27
> Amps: 1000
> Cranking Amps: 1000
> Cold Cranking Amps: 810
> Voltage: 12
> Termination: A
> Pro-rata Warranty: 85
> Weight: 47.4
> Width: 6.81
> Length: 12.06
> Height: 8.88
>
>
> So, it has 24% of the rating of the truck battery which isn't
> 'tiny'. It is intended to start a vehicle with a run down battery, not
> one with mechanical problems. The portable pack is designed with a
> different type of battery, as well. The available current is determined
> by the plate area and thickness.

OK, your impeccable documentation has won me over. I withdraw my
objection; the current claims on those jump-packs (300 amps, 400 amps)
must be believable after all. I'm a little surprised, though.

--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 11:57 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

In the case of the Schumacher IP-55 model (12V 4Ah battery) the descriptive
term that's not been mentioned so far, is 400A Peak, for this model.

Manufacturers know that Peak is a (multi)million dollar word, whether it's
used with watts, HP, or amps.. because Peak distorts actual specifications.
Consumers love big numbers, and manufacturers know it.

With a properly rated current shunt, and a peak-reading amp meter attached,
one could determine the peak current available from such a small battery.

As Dave P points out, the number of times that a small battery can deliver
the somewhat severe duty discharge rates, is going to be a very limited
number of times.

I didn't purchase this Schumacher power pack as an emergency car battery
jump pack, but instead, only as a portable power supply.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4cfd8cab$0$2403$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
> OK, your impeccable documentation has won me over. I withdraw my
> objection; the current claims on those jump-packs (300 amps, 400 amps)
> must be believable after all. I'm a little surprised, though.
>

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 4:06 pm
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <Cdidndz4V7nN6WDRnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Very few car batteries are given an amp our rating in the US since
> they are not used without a charging circuit.

Great. So never used with the engine stopped? All car batteries in the UK
have the amp.hour marked on them. As well as max current, etc.

I have an electronic battery tester - an expensive device. This gives a
instantaneous readout of the capacity in amp.hours. If you don't know what
it should be it is fairly useless.

--
*I brake for no apparent reason.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 4:02 pm
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <Cdidndz4V7nN6WDRnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> You keep changing the subject.

Think you should re-read my posts. Perhaps you addressed your questions to
the wrong person.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: american beer inferier?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/79cf21563e25cfa2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 10:56 am
From: Chuck

On Mon, 6 Dec 2010 03:24:23 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

>> I don't get this light beer thing. What is the point? Beer
>> should have some body and flavour. You don't have to
>> drink it until it's coming out your nose.
>
>It's a social thing. Shmoozing with your buddies for hour after hour, while
>downing beer after beer, is a mark of True Masculinity. So a lower-calorie
>beer seems desirable.
>
>There was a short-lived low-carb beer in the late 60s, long before low-carb
>became a trend. I remember seeing the ads in New York, but I don't remember
>the name.
>

The beer was called Gablingers and it was brewed by Rheingold so it
was available in NY, NJ. and New England. Chuck

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 11:07 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> There was a short-lived low-carb beer in the late 60s,
>> long before low-carb became a trend. I remember seeing
>> the ads in New York, but don't remember the name.

> The beer was called Gablinger's. and it was brewed by
> Rheingold, so it was available in NY, NJ, and New England.

Thanks. I was going crazy trying to remember the name.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 4:41 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Upper current limit on micro-miniature tactile snap-action switches?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e17b57ca23889202?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 7:48 pm
From: "Dave"

Determined that the problem with my waffle iron is the power switch, which
was apparently not up to the demands placed on it by the engineers who
designed the beast. Switch was totally burned out, which I missed at first
thinking that the JH3001 was a solid state fuse, and not the SPST relay that
it actually is. Am now wondering how heavy a switch I can put on the
control board that acts as a user interface. Would like to stay with the
same type of switch that it came with, but that may not be advisable.
Anyone have any idea how much current a tiny (1/4" x 1/4" x 13/64" tall)
snap-action switch might be able to handle? And where to get that heavier
duty switch? Any help is appreciated. I'm wonderig if I will end up
putting a standard push-button switch in its place and eliminate the plastic
spacer that fills the void between the PC board and the outside world.

Thanks,

Dave

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 8:00 pm
From: Sjouke Burry

Dave wrote:
> Determined that the problem with my waffle iron is the power switch, which
> was apparently not up to the demands placed on it by the engineers who
> designed the beast. Switch was totally burned out, which I missed at first
> thinking that the JH3001 was a solid state fuse, and not the SPST relay that
> it actually is. Am now wondering how heavy a switch I can put on the
> control board that acts as a user interface. Would like to stay with the
> same type of switch that it came with, but that may not be advisable.
> Anyone have any idea how much current a tiny (1/4" x 1/4" x 13/64" tall)
> snap-action switch might be able to handle? And where to get that heavier
> duty switch? Any help is appreciated. I'm wonderig if I will end up
> putting a standard push-button switch in its place and eliminate the plastic
> spacer that fills the void between the PC board and the outside world.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
I would go for the last solution, when the spacer allows it.
Count yourself lucky that there is any space.......

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PSU voltage instability
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/640c794886b1e24f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 8:24 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Dec 4, 6:57 pm, nont...@dico.no (Slater) wrote:
> Hello, I have an ATX power supply. I tested it with a CD ROM drive
> attached and noticed that the 12V rail gives me a lower voltage when
> the CD tray is moving (11.79V against the usual 11.87V).
> Could this be due to bad capacitors?

What others told you about only the 5 (or 3.3) being regulated is
true. As the load varies on that supply, the other voltages will rise
of fall based on the load current on the regulated supply. This is
normal and not broken. I first noticed this characteristic around 10
years ago when my power supply fan (runs on the 12 V supply) was
changing pitch depending on the processor activity. That machine
varied between 50 and 100 Watts.

G²

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale Nike Shoes,Air Max Shoes,Nike Shox,Air Jordan Sneakers .
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d1f7055db48055a6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 9:41 pm
From: polotshirts

Share with you my shopping experience at http://www.people-trade.com

Months ago I got an online shop which is http://www.people-trade.com .
before I decided to buy something there, I googled it and find much
information about it, some are good, some are bad, after a close
consideration, I decided to buy something from it by myself to check
if the comments are right or wrong, coz the clothes there are really
beautiful, and they have low prices. As long as the the quality is not
bad enough that it can only last several days.(actually no one
produces this, or anyone sells)

After registering and payment at http://www.people-trade.com , about 2
weeks later (16th Sep), I received a package from a DHL postman.
Now here I am sharing the photo bought there with you, to some point,
I love them.

http://www.globaltrade06.com/productinfo2-karen%20millen_43-30496.html
Overall: ★★★★★★★★★
Quality: ★★★★★★★★★
Recommendation: ★★★★★★★★★★

MY WORDS:
These shirt is the first I bought from wholesale dress, It has many
colors, I chose the red one, which feels good.chinese style which fits
me well, as an Asian.
But before you buy this style, measure the size of yourself,
This was the first time I bought from http://www.people-trade.com .
Anyway this one is good.

About 2 weeks later, I decided to buy for another time, you know I am
a shopaholic, and always can help buying fashion clothes.
Here are the photos
(http://www.globaltrade06.com/productinfo1-UGG%201873-02-38909.html)
Overall: ★★★★★★★★
Quality: ★★★★★★★★★★
Recommendation: ★★★★★★★★★

My words: These ugg boots are very close in design, though they have
different color, which,of course, bring different feeling when I was
wearing them. I shifted to wear them, every time there is always a
kind of refreshment. .

Dear friends, if you have ever had this kind of experience, we can
share here, you can post your favorite clothes here, and we
communicate.
Thank you, and thank http://www.people-trade.com , I hope he wont let
me down next time.
I will be back.

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TOPIC: Cheap Wholesale Nike Air Max 97 <free shipping paypal payment> <http://
www.people-trade.com />
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1ddd6dd42941a827?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 6 2010 10:00 pm
From: CASUAL LEATHER SHOES

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