sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* 100v--> 10V Trans. on 120V - 13 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c8528fdeff78820d?hl=en
* american beer inferier? - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/79cf21563e25cfa2?hl=en
* PSU voltage instability - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/640c794886b1e24f?hl=en
* low cost thermocouple DAQ that works with ubuntu linux tia sal22 - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6df4cca829179f26?hl=en
* RAC Portable Power Station, need DC adaptor spec - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b105b15b5ad9d933?hl=en
* pretty girls hot videos&photos - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bccdb535f86049e0?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 100v--> 10V Trans. on 120V
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c8528fdeff78820d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 2:17 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 12/4/2010 12:04 PM Michael Kennedy spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4cfa8cbb$0$2411$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> On 12/4/2010 5:04 AM Mark Zacharias spake thus:
>>
>>> "Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:IdlKo.442218$pX3.215194@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>
>>>> Having a DC output from a transformer is obviously more common
>>>> that you think.
>>>>
>>>> The old style automotive ignition coil (autotransformer)
>>>> outputs HV DC.
>>>>
>>>> That's one example, and it is a transformer although not the
>>>> kind used for a game system power source, and the output isn't
>>>> rectified.
>>>>
>>>> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>>>> news:4cf988fd$0$2409$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you get DC out of a transformer? Must be a really
>>>>> special one ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, it's impossible to tell from the O.P. whether the
>>>>> thing in question is really a transformer (outputs AC) or a
>>>>> power supply (outputs DC).
>>>>>
>>>>> To the OP, it would help us to know. What does it say on the
>>>>> wall wart? Should say something like "10 VAC" or "10 VDC" or
>>>>> some such.
>>>
>>> Lot's of "wall-warts" have a rectifier diode and capacitor in the
>>> same little box. More and more they actually have little
>>> switching regulators in there. Those are more efficient and can
>>> supply much more current, but they usually don't last much more
>>> than about 15 months because they use such crappy little
>>> capacitors in them, and they are virtually unserviceable.
>>
>> Yes, we know that. My point is that a lot of wall warts are just
>> what the O.P. called them--transformers--and that we really have no
>> idea what his is, based on what he posted.
>>
>> More informations, please.
>
> Quote: Michael Kennedy
>>Here I have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
> transformer.
>
> /quote
>
> Sorry I somehow forgot to write core a between iorn and transformer.
> It is a 10vdc Iorn core transformer wall wart 50/60Hz 850mA. Not a switcher.
> Most likely it has 4 diodes a fuse and possibly a small cap insde of it
> along side the transformer. The regulation is inside of the nintendo itself.

You don't understand.

No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.

A transformer (and *all* transformers that operate on line
frequency--50/60 Hz--are iron-core, so no need to specify that) converts
AC to AC.

If the wall wart contains diodes, then it's not just a transformer; it's
a DC power supply. (A transformer is part of it.)

So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the "10
vdc" above.

--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 3:02 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 21:07:54 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:

> On 12/3/2010 9:03 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:41:26 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/3/2010 8:35 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:20:17 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/3/2010 1:08 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here I
>>>>>>> have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>>>>>>> transformer. Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is
>>>>>>> going to output 12V on 120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc
>>>>>> or there abouts.
>>>>>
>>>>> How[SLAP]
>>>>
>>>> Fuck off you pisswit. Note the "If" word, Revenge Dweeb.
>>>
>>> Fuck off yourself, Meat Head.
>>
>> Love it when I back up trolls like you into a corner.
>
> What you perceive

What I perceive is an idiot troll (you) backed into a corner.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 3:08 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 07:04:38 -0600, Mark Zacharias wrote:

> Lot's of "wall-warts" have a rectifier diode and capacitor in the same
> little box. More and more they actually have little switching regulators
> in there. Those are more efficient and can supply much more current, but
> they usually don't last much more than about 15 months because they use
> such crappy little capacitors in them, and they are virtually
> unserviceable.
>
> Mark Z.

I've heard plenty of people refer to a wall wart as a transformer. The OP
gave no other specs than 10 volts. My reply was "if" it was rectified and
regulated the output should be around 10 volts with 120 in.

In Dave Nebenzahl's attempt to insult/discredit my reply his haste
caused a fail to notice or credit my word "if". It's a hurried cheap shot
and I would expect nothing less from someone whose experience, knowledge
and talents fall woefully short of mine.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 3:14 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:17:10 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:

>> Quote: Michael Kennedy
>>>Here I have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>> transformer.
>>
>> /quote
>>
>> Sorry I somehow forgot to write core a between iorn and transformer.
>> It is a 10vdc Iorn core transformer wall wart 50/60Hz 850mA. Not a
>> switcher. Most likely it has 4 diodes a fuse and possibly a small cap
>> insde of it along side the transformer. The regulation is inside of the
>> nintendo itself.
>
> You don't understand.
>
> No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.

Micheal a newbie? And condescendingly so. Alt.home.repair is a better
group for you to troll and is that away --------------->

SER is filled with those of intellect in-imaginably far superior to
yours.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 4:07 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 12/4/2010 3:02 PM Meat Plow spake thus:

> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 21:07:54 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> On 12/3/2010 9:03 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>
>>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:41:26 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12/3/2010 8:35 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:20:17 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12/3/2010 1:08 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here I
>>>>>>>> have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>>>>>>>> transformer. Am Im I correct in guessing that this transformer is
>>>>>>>> going to output 12V on 120V power instead of 10V it would on 100V?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output 10vdc
>>>>>>> or there abouts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How[SLAP]
>>>>>
>>>>> Fuck off you pisswit. Note the "If" word, Revenge Dweeb.
>>>>
>>>> Fuck off yourself, Meat Head.
>>>
>>> Love it when I back up trolls like you into a corner.
>>
>> What you perceive
>
> What I perceive is an idiot troll (you) backed into a corner.

What I perceive is an unpleasant, belligerent and ill-mannered cur who
has a curious obsession with me ... get over it.

--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 4:36 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:07:47 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:

> On 12/4/2010 3:02 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 21:07:54 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/3/2010 9:03 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:41:26 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/3/2010 8:35 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:20:17 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/3/2010 1:08 PM Meat Plow spake thus:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 03:17:59 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was wonderin if someone could educate me on Transformers. Here
>>>>>>>>> I have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart
>>>>>>>>> iorn transformer. Am Im I correct in guessing that this
>>>>>>>>> transformer is going to output 12V on 120V power instead of 10V
>>>>>>>>> it would on 100V?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not being in the USA at the moment I can't just check it and see
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the supply is rectified and well regulated it will output
>>>>>>>> 10vdc or there abouts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How[SLAP]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fuck off you pisswit. Note the "If" word, Revenge Dweeb.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fuck off yourself, Meat Head.
>>>>
>>>> Love it when I back up trolls like you into a corner.
>>>
>>> What you perceive
>>
>> What I perceive is an idiot troll (you) backed into a corner.
>
> What I perceive

Is you being bitch-slapped.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 4:47 pm
From: Archon

On 12/4/2010 5:17 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 12/4/2010 12:04 PM Michael Kennedy spake thus:
>
>> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>> news:4cfa8cbb$0$2411$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>.
Snip
> No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.
>
> A transformer (and *all* transformers that operate on line
> frequency--50/60 Hz--are iron-core, so no need to specify that) converts
> AC to AC.
>
> If the wall wart contains diodes, then it's not just a transformer; it's
> a DC power supply. (A transformer is part of it.)
>
> So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the "10
> vdc" above.
>
>

From my memory of Nebenzahl postings on this group he's gone from
complete noob who knew zilch about electronics to the major critic of
other posters in less than a year, time for him to STFU .

== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 6:59 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 12/4/2010 4:47 PM Archon spake thus:

> On 12/4/2010 5:17 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.
>>
>> A transformer (and *all* transformers that operate on line
>> frequency--50/60 Hz--are iron-core, so no need to specify that)
>> converts AC to AC.
>>
>> If the wall wart contains diodes, then it's not just a transformer;
>> it's a DC power supply. (A transformer is part of it.)
>>
>> So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the
>> "10 vdc" above.
>
> From my memory of Nebenzahl postings on this group he's gone from
> complete noob who knew zilch about electronics to the major critic of
> other posters in less than a year, time for him to STFU .

So please point out what, if anything, is wrong with what I posted above.

Didn't think so.

[I'm no electronics expert, but I'm not a "complete noob" either.]

--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 7:05 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 12/4/2010 4:36 PM Meat Plow spake thus:

> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 16:07:47 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> What I perceive
>
> Is you being bitch-slapped.

q.e.d.

--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 7:05 pm
From: "Michael Kennedy"

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4cfabda2$0$2404$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 12/4/2010 12:04 PM Michael Kennedy spake thus:
>
>> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>> news:4cfa8cbb$0$2411$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>
>>> On 12/4/2010 5:04 AM Mark Zacharias spake thus:
>>>
>>>> "Wild_Bill" <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:IdlKo.442218$pX3.215194@en-nntp-11.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>
>>>>> Having a DC output from a transformer is obviously more common
>>>>> that you think.
>>>>>
>>>>> The old style automotive ignition coil (autotransformer)
>>>>> outputs HV DC.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's one example, and it is a transformer although not the
>>>>> kind used for a game system power source, and the output isn't
>>>>> rectified.
>>>>>
>>>>> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4cf988fd$0$2409$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you get DC out of a transformer? Must be a really
>>>>>> special one ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, it's impossible to tell from the O.P. whether the thing in
>>>>>> question is really a transformer (outputs AC) or a
>>>>>> power supply (outputs DC).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To the OP, it would help us to know. What does it say on the
>>>>>> wall wart? Should say something like "10 VAC" or "10 VDC" or
>>>>>> some such.
>>>>
>>>> Lot's of "wall-warts" have a rectifier diode and capacitor in the
>>>> same little box. More and more they actually have little
>>>> switching regulators in there. Those are more efficient and can
>>>> supply much more current, but they usually don't last much more
>>>> than about 15 months because they use such crappy little
>>>> capacitors in them, and they are virtually unserviceable.
>>>
>>> Yes, we know that. My point is that a lot of wall warts are just
>>> what the O.P. called them--transformers--and that we really have no
>>> idea what his is, based on what he posted.
>>>
>>> More informations, please.
>>
>> Quote: Michael Kennedy
>>>Here I have a Japanese Nintendo which has a 100V to 10V wall wart iorn
>> transformer.
>>
>> /quote
>>
>> Sorry I somehow forgot to write core a between iorn and transformer.
>> It is a 10vdc Iorn core transformer wall wart 50/60Hz 850mA. Not a
>> switcher. Most likely it has 4 diodes a fuse and possibly a small cap
>> insde of it along side the transformer. The regulation is inside of the
>> nintendo itself.
>
> You don't understand.
>
> No biggie; apparently you're a newbie. That's OK.
>
> A transformer (and *all* transformers that operate on line
> frequency--50/60 Hz--are iron-core, so no need to specify that) converts
> AC to AC.
>
> If the wall wart contains diodes, then it's not just a transformer; it's a
> DC power supply. (A transformer is part of it.)
>
> So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the "10
> vdc" above.
>
>

Come on man... Give me a break.. Technically speaking, yes it is a "Power
Supply" but in it"s absolutely most simple form. I think had I said Power
supply from the beginning I would understand why people would be confused,
with most thinking of a SMPS. It is a transformer with a rectifier. I only
mentioned the 50/60 hz and the mA rating because of all the controversy.

Anyhow, the issue wasn't is it a power supply or not or if it contains
diodes or not....

I'll just check it in a couple of weeks when I'm back home, with my DMM and
see if my guess was right.

== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 7:21 pm
From: "Brenda Ann"

"Michael Kennedy" wrote in message
news:tYmdnXXTk7EdnGbRnZ2dnVY3go6dnZ2d@giganews.com...

Anyhow, the issue wasn't is it a power supply or not or if it contains
diodes or not....

I'll just check it in a couple of weeks when I'm back home, with my DMM and
see if my guess was right.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It may actually be a bit higher than 12V output, given that for every AC
volt into the rectifier, you will normally get 1.414 DC volts after
rectification and filtering. Regardless, the regulation circuits in the
gaming console should be able to handle the extra voltage quite easily.

== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 8:07 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 12/4/2010 7:05 PM Michael Kennedy spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4cfabda2$0$2404$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> So apparently what you have is a DC power supply, judging from the "10
>> vdc" above.
>
> Come on man... Give me a break..

OK.

> Technically speaking, yes it is a "Power
> Supply" but in it"s absolutely most simple form. I think had I said Power
> supply from the beginning I would understand why people would be confused,
> with most thinking of a SMPS. It is a transformer with a rectifier.

Well, that's a power supply. Bare, nekkid, unregulated, but a power
supply nonetheless.

> I'll just check it in a couple of weeks when I'm back home, with my DMM and
> see if my guess was right.

Your guess is probably right.

I'm most intrigued, though, by that "100 V" rating. Is that written on
the outside? Because that's a nonstandard voltage, at least for the
parts of the world I'm familiar with. Where are you? What's the line
voltage where you live?

Maybe it's just a "nominal" rating, like the 90-140 V or so that some
power supplies will handle. In any case, the advice that others have
given here, basically "don't sweat it, the device's regulation will take
care of things" is good.

--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 8:56 pm
From: "Brenda Ann"

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
news:4cfb0fae$0$2419$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

100V is a standard voltage in Japan. What's really interesting about Japan
is that they not only use 100/220V power, but also 50 AND 60 Hz line
frequencies.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: american beer inferier?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/79cf21563e25cfa2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 5:03 pm
From: "(PeteCresswell)"

Per Peter Lucas (SAS RET):
>What do Urine and american Beer have in common?
>They both taste the same going in and comming out!!

The German side of my family refers to our beer as "Pisswasser".

Bad rap as far as I'm concerned bc the most noticeable fault of
American beers like Bud and Coors is the *lack* of taste - piss
or otherwise.

There are, IMHO, some enjoyable American beers. But they're
smaller brands - some of which are even claimed thb brewed in
accordance with the old German "Purity Law" - as in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot
--
PeteCresswell

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 5:49 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:4uolf6pu0l1dn1etpopdeduj12r052det9@4ax.com...
> Per Peter Lucas (SAS RET):
>>What do Urine and american Beer have in common?
>>They both taste the same going in and comming out!!
>
> The German side of my family refers to our beer as "Pisswasser".
>
> Bad rap as far as I'm concerned bc the most noticeable fault of
> American beers like Bud and Coors is the *lack* of taste - piss
> or otherwise.
>
> There are, IMHO, some enjoyable American beers. But they're
> smaller brands - some of which are even claimed thb brewed in
> accordance with the old German "Purity Law" - as in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot
> --
> PeteCresswell

I rather like to drink Michelob when I'm stateside, but do I recall someone
telling me that's actually a Canadian beer ?

Arfa

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 5:52 pm
From: Bryan

On Dec 4, 7:49 pm, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:4uolf6pu0l1dn1etpopdeduj12r052det9@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Per Peter Lucas (SAS RET):
> >>What do Urine and american Beer have in common?
> >>They both taste the same going in and comming out!!
>
> > The German side of my family refers to our beer as "Pisswasser".
>
> > Bad rap as far as I'm concerned bc the most noticeable fault of
> > American beers like Bud and Coors is the *lack* of taste - piss
> > or otherwise.
>
> > There are, IMHO, some enjoyable American beers. But they're
> > smaller brands - some of which are even claimed thb brewed in
> > accordance with the old German "Purity Law" - as in
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot
> > --
> > PeteCresswell
>
> I rather like to drink Michelob when I'm stateside, but do I recall someone
> telling me that's actually a Canadian beer ?

No. It's as American as it gets. For commercial, watery, fairly
tasteless beer, it's the best of the bunch. It's great for canoeing/
kayaking because you can get it in cans.
>
> Arfa

--Bryan

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 8:51 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Dec 4, 1:34 pm, "Peter Lucas (SAS RET)" <ps...@lawyer.com> wrote:
> What do Urine and american Beer have in common?
> They both taste the same going in and comming out!!
>
> --
> Peter Lucas
> Brisbane
> Australia
>
> Q:Do you like Beef?
> A:Well suck my C.O.C.K Its Dripping!
>
> sticking it to ''Politcal Correctness'' since 2008

Assuming you're correct, why do you know?

G²

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PSU voltage instability
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/640c794886b1e24f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 6:57 pm
From: nontelo@dico.no (Slater)

Hello, I have an ATX power supply. I tested it with a CD ROM drive
attached and noticed that the 12V rail gives me a lower voltage when
the CD tray is moving (11.79V against the usual 11.87V).
Could this be due to bad capacitors?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 7:20 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Slater"
> Hello, I have an ATX power supply. I tested it with a CD ROM drive
> attached and noticed that the 12V rail gives me a lower voltage when
> the CD tray is moving (11.79V against the usual 11.87V).
> Could this be due to bad capacitors?

** Small variations in the 12V and some other rail voltages are quite
normal - only the 5V and 3.3V rails are actually regulated with any
precision.

.... Phil

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 8:03 pm
From: Sjouke Burry

Slater wrote:
> Hello, I have an ATX power supply. I tested it with a CD ROM drive
> attached and noticed that the 12V rail gives me a lower voltage when
> the CD tray is moving (11.79V against the usual 11.87V).
> Could this be due to bad capacitors?
Often only one of the voltages, for example the the 5volt, is regulated,
the others are determined by transformer ratio, and are more
load dependent.
The 12v is usually one of the "raw" voltages, and as such is allowed to
vary quite a lot.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 8:24 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 05 Dec 2010 02:57:32 GMT, nontelo@dico.no (Slater) wrote:

>Hello, I have an ATX power supply.

Right. All ATX power supplies are identical. Maker and model please?
Some power supplies are junk.

>I tested it with a CD ROM drive
>attached and noticed that the 12V rail gives me a lower voltage when
>the CD tray is moving (11.79V against the usual 11.87V).
>Could this be due to bad capacitors?

If you're getting 10mv accuracy with your DVM, you must have a decent
way of calibrating your instrument to that resolution. 100mv accuracy
is more reasonable.

See the ATX PS specification at:
<http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5Catx2_2.pdf>
Section 4.1.4 specifies:
Table 6. Voltage Tolerances
Voltage Rail Tolerance
+5VDC � 5 %
-5VDC (if used) � 10 %
+12VDC � 5 %
-12VDC � 10 %
+3.3VDC � 5 %
+5VSB � 5 %

A tolerance of 5% would be anything from 11.4VDC to 12.6VDC.
However, if your unspecified maker and model DVM instrument is
calibrated to maybe �3%, your acceptable range might be 11.0 to
13.0VDC.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 8:28 pm
From: nontelo@dico.no (Slater)

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:

>Right. All ATX power supplies are identical. Maker and model please?

Maker: Whatsup
Model: ATX-400W P4

My concern is not how off the voltage is, it's the instability: is it
normal? The voltage changes depending on the load. The PSU inside my
PC doesnt do this.

>Some power supplies are junk.
Perhaps mine is in that league!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: low cost thermocouple DAQ that works with ubuntu linux tia sal22
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6df4cca829179f26?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 7:47 pm
From: Phil Hobbs

I AM THAT I AM wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Dec 2010 14:06:43 -0500, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> I AM THAT I AM wrote:
>>> On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 20:24:09 -0500, Phil Hobbs
>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob Masta wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 13:11:18 -0500, Phil Hobbs
>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Glen Walpert wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 16:36:56 +0000, ratullloch_delthis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greetings All
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm looking for a recommendation for a low cost thermocouple DAQ that
>>>>>>>> works with ubuntu linux. Can someone recommend one. I'm trying to
>>>>>>>> record temperture measurements over time. tia sal22
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.mccdaq.com/daq-software/Linux-Support.aspx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Single channel thermocouple to USB with linux support $99, multiple
>>>>>>> channels more $.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thermocouples are really really horrible temperature sensors--almost as
>>>>>> bad as ICs. Their advantages are small size, relatively low cost, and
>>>>>> (potentially) high speed, but their disadvantage is that it's really
>>>>>> hard to get good measurements.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One reason for this is thermal conduction down the leads (which is a big
>>>>>> problem for most temperature sensors). There's a worse one, though:
>>>>>> due to their very low sensitivity, thermocouples are extremely
>>>>>> vulnerable to errors caused by offset drift in the circuitry. See
>>>>>> Figure 20.3 on P. 803 at http://electrooptical.net/www/book/draftthermal.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that they involve a reference junction for
>>>>> which you must know the temperature. Unless you have an ice
>>>>> bath handy, this involves an independent non-thermocouple
>>>>> sensor like a thermistor, diode, or IC. So just use that
>>>>> instead! (Unless you need really high temperatures.)
>>>>>
>>>>> One good thing about TCs is that they don't need typically
>>>>> calibration... they are supposed to conform to a standard
>>>>> for the TC type (J, K, R, S etc). You just measure the
>>>>> output voltage, correct for the reference junction
>>>>> temperature, and look up the temperature for that voltage.
>>>>> Accuracy is typically +/-2 degrees C. But the voltages are
>>>>> really small: 1 mv or less at room temperature (0.10 mV
>>>>> for R or S types).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd say, save the thermocouples for the really hot stuff.
>>>>> For "normal" temperatures (say, freezing to boiling water
>>>>> ranges), you can get much better precision and accuracy, not
>>>>> to mention convenience, from an IC.
>>>>
>>>> If all you need is a degree or two's accuracy near room temperature,
>>>> almost any method will work. IC temperature sensors are generally
>>>> fairly putrid--slow, inaccurate, and noisy.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>>
>>> Resistor bolometer 2 mm sq, 2 mm behind probably a Ge window (in a
>>> little to-39 pkg) at whatever needed distance behind a half inch diameter
>>> plastic Fresnel lens with some nice read circuitry and LCD display with
>>> read and hold mode, etc., and a little laser focal point spotter.
>>>
>>> Pretty damned good accuracy from every test I could put it through,
>>> from new batteries, all the way down to both cells being dead... the
>>> damned thing reads. (obviously the data cell is not completely dead at
>>> that point)
>>>
>>> $20 at Harbor Freight.
>>>
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-thermometer-93984.html
>>
>> Some of those things are pretty useful--microbolometers have come a
>> really long way. Consistency is not the same as accuracy, though, and
>> all sensors relying on radiation are (a) vulnerable to emissivity
>> variations, and (2) slow, at least compared to an RTD or thermistor (or
>> thermocouple).
>>
>> Temperature control lives and dies by loop bandwidth, just like every
>> other control system. Slow sensors ==> poor control. Inaccurate
>> sensors ==>poor control. Fast, accurate sensors plus intelligent sensor
>> placement, insulation to reduce thermal forcing, thermal grounding of
>> leads, .... ==>good control.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
>
> IR sensors are faster, and that includes a bolometer. There is zero
> settling time, and emissivity will not be a factor, because just like
> your sensor, this would be "placed" the same every time. Accuracy is
> dead on, if it was calibrated right in the first place as the circuitry
> is usually VERY linear and very accurate if any linearization corrections
> are needed, they are usually hard wired in. I'll bet that it even has
> ambient compensation built into a single custom MCU/do-it-all chip.
> Things we had to engineer in with discreet components back when the
> finished product was $500.
>
> Well, it was precision lab instrumentation outputs. All the Harbor
> Freight item has is a readout.
>
> I'll bet that it can be relied on to plus or minus 0.3 degrees though.
>
> They range from about 1.5 us to about half a second in response time.
>
> It probably takes a typical TC junction a tenth of a second to settle
> through with a 'bead' size of about .75 to 1 mm.

0.3 degrees is nowhere near close enough for instruments. For
industrial control, that would often be just fine. However, you
massively underestimate the contribution of emissivity error.

Radiation coupling is very poor at room temperature--a vacuum gap
between two surfaces of unit emissivity is equivalent to the thermal
conductivity of about 5 mm of air. (I once had occasion to calculate
that for a sensor design.) That means that the same sensor in intimate
contact with the given surface would be at least an order of magnitude
faster, and probably two orders.

Optical pyrometry also doesn't work too well through insulation. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

email: hobbs (atsign) electrooptical (period) net
http://electrooptical.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RAC Portable Power Station, need DC adaptor spec
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b105b15b5ad9d933?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 7:57 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 12/2/2010 2:01 AM Adrian C spake thus:

> http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac327/turnstyler/IMG_3573.jpg
>
> A neighbour has dropped in with his discharged and dead "RAC Portable
> Power Station and Engine Starter" which he obtained without the
> necessary DC charger. The starter is a dayglo orange heavy thing with a
> handle and says it can crank 400 Amps.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet in this thread, but aren't
those claims for how much current these things will deliver a lot of BS?

I first saw one of these power units a couple weeks ago, when my
neighbor used his to get my van started after he borrowed it and the
battery started going dead. He used it twice, successfully, to
jump-start my half-dead battery. So they do work, apparently. But his
was similarly marked (I think 300 amps). Is there any way that such a
small lead-acid battery could deliver this much juice? I'm skeptical.

--
How To Access Wikileaks

These sites are still up as of 12/3/10:

http://wikileaks.de
http://wikileaks.fi
http://wikileaks.nl
http://wikileaks.eu
http://wikileaks.pl

And these IP addresses can be used:

http://213.251.145.96/
http://88.80.13.160/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: pretty girls hot videos&photos
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bccdb535f86049e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 4 2010 9:25 pm
From: SRAVANTHI LOVE

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