sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Two phases or not?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a29a801d6e01e9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 1:52 pm
From: PeterD

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 14:24:13 -0500, Fred McKenzie <fmmck@aol.com>
wrote:

>In article <iheldn$86l$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> If there were two electrically isolated windings, with opposite polarity,
>> you would clearly have two phases. (I think.)
>
>Reminds me of the story of two carpenters. One says, "Half of my nails
>have the head on the wrong end." His partner responds, "You dummy,
>those are for the other side of the house!"

And the other carpenters doing the other side of the house: "Damn, I
just cut this board too short." His partner replies, "Simple, just
turn it around and cut somemore off the other end..."

== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 4:37 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/22/2011 5:27 AM PeterD spake thus:

> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:09:26 -0800, David Nebenzahl
> <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> The discussion started with a mention of 2-phase power. Turns out
>> that in the world of electrical power, this has a specific meaning.
>> It refers to a now-obsolete system of generating power in 2 phases
>> that were 90° apart, and was used at Niagara Falls:
>>
>> http://www.3phasepower.org/2phasesystems.htm
>>
>> And of course there's 3-phase power, widely used today.
>>
>> The problem is this: several people, myself included, contend that
>> the two "legs" of power produced by a center-tapped transformer do,
>> in fact, constitute two separate phases of power, 180° apart. (This
>> is how household power is delivered in North America, with a
>> step-down xfmr at the power pole delivering 240 volts in the form
>> of 120-0-120.)
>
> Well, if you want to be correct, the house power is split phase, and
> not two phase. I suppose there is an arguement that it is two phase,
> but say that to a power engineer and you'll get the old raised
> eyebrows response!

Welllll ... that's pretty much what I wrote. So I take it you agree with
me that it is, in fact, 2-phase power, correct?

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 4:45 pm
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 1/22/2011 6:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 1/22/2011 5:27 AM PeterD spake thus:
>
>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:09:26 -0800, David Nebenzahl
>> <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>
>>> The discussion started with a mention of 2-phase power. Turns out
>>> that in the world of electrical power, this has a specific meaning.
>>> It refers to a now-obsolete system of generating power in 2 phases
>>> that were 90° apart, and was used at Niagara Falls:
>>>
>>> http://www.3phasepower.org/2phasesystems.htm
>>>
>>> And of course there's 3-phase power, widely used today.
>>>
>>> The problem is this: several people, myself included, contend that
>>> the two "legs" of power produced by a center-tapped transformer do,
>>> in fact, constitute two separate phases of power, 180° apart. (This
>>> is how household power is delivered in North America, with a
>>> step-down xfmr at the power pole delivering 240 volts in the form
>>> of 120-0-120.)
>>
>> Well, if you want to be correct, the house power is split phase, and
>> not two phase. I suppose there is an arguement that it is two phase,
>> but say that to a power engineer and you'll get the old raised
>> eyebrows response!
>
> Welllll ... that's pretty much what I wrote. So I take it you agree with
> me that it is, in fact, 2-phase power, correct?
>

In a word, no.

Power distribution being what it is, the 240/120 transformer on the
pole is sourced with _ONE_ phase of the 3-phase feed for the area.
That there is a center tap allowing for 120/120 or 240 loads is
immaterial. It's STILL single phase.

Jeff

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 4:49 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeffrey Angus"
>
>>
>> Welllll ... that's pretty much what I wrote. So I take it you agree with
>> me that it is, in fact, 2-phase power, correct?
>>
>
> In a word, no.
>
> Power distribution being what it is, the 240/120 transformer on the
> pole is sourced with _ONE_ phase of the 3-phase feed for the area.

** Totally irrelevant how the 2-phase is derived.

> That there is a center tap allowing for 120/120 or 240 loads is
> immaterial. It's STILL single phase.

** Pedantic nonsense.

There are two AC waves that differ only in phase and if both "phases" are
loaded equally, the neutral current is zero.

So it is completely analogous to 3-phase power.

The 90 degree system is just an obsolete odd ball only a moronic pedant
would even mention.

.... Phil

== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 5:04 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/22/2011 4:49 PM Phil Allison spake thus:

> "Jeffrey Angus"
>>
>>> Welllll ... that's pretty much what I wrote. So I take it you
>>> agree with me that it is, in fact, 2-phase power, correct?
>>
>> In a word, no.
>>
>> Power distribution being what it is, the 240/120 transformer on the
>> pole is sourced with _ONE_ phase of the 3-phase feed for the
>> area.
>
> ** Totally irrelevant how the 2-phase is derived.
>
>> That there is a center tap allowing for 120/120 or 240 loads is
>> immaterial. It's STILL single phase.
>
> ** Pedantic nonsense.
>
> There are two AC waves that differ only in phase and if both "phases" are
> loaded equally, the neutral current is zero.
>
> So it is completely analogous to 3-phase power.
>
> The 90 degree system is just an obsolete odd ball only a moronic pedant
> would even mention.

I have to say I totally agree with Phil here. Especially the reference
to "true" 2-phase power brought up in this argument (the one over on
a.h.r), meaning that totally antiquated and obsolete system.

Those with which I disagree seem to think that just because the two
phases aren't somehow manufactured separately, by two different windings
of a generator or some such, that the center-tapped xfmr can't possibly
supply two separate phases, when it so clearly does just that.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 5:07 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/22/2011 4:45 PM Jeffrey Angus spake thus:

> Power distribution being what it is, the 240/120 transformer on the
> pole is sourced with _ONE_ phase of the 3-phase feed for the area.
> That there is a center tap allowing for 120/120 or 240 loads is
> immaterial. It's STILL single phase.

Keep in mind the premise of my original question. Remember I pointed out
that 120-0-120 current supplied by a center-tapped transformer is *not*
called "2-phase" by those in the electrical power industry, but that it
is, in fact, 2-phase power. Do you disagree that there are actually two
separate phases of power present at the secondary of the transformer?

Regardless of what they call it ...

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 6:35 pm
From: Jamie

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

> On 1/22/2011 7:27 AM, PeterD wrote:
>
>> Well, if you want to be correct, the house power is split phase, and
>> not two phase. I suppose there is an arguement that it is two phase,
>> but say that to a power engineer and you'll get the old raised
>> eyebrows response!
>
>
> Ding! We have a winner.
>
> Thank you peter.
>
> Jeff

having a CT in a winding gives you 2 phases, 180 apart..

Calling it split phase is just a method of doing it.

Lets look at it this way..

Take a control xfomer..

If I was to wire the secondary as

X1, X2+X3, X4;

X2 and X3 being the CT, I now have a source that has 2 secondaries
(2 windings) that can give me 180 degree shift via the CT. This gives
me 2 phases..Why? because they are not in phase with each other.. It
does not matter if they are only 1 degree off from each other.. They
would be two difference phases, because we are using the CT as the
common point. Same as, if you were to use the STAR Center of a WYE
transformer as the common point, this would give you 3 phases which
we all know are 120 degrees different from each one. The analogy isn't
any different if you had the pole pig which is just a single winding
with a CT in it on the secondary side for your common. Other wise known
as a split phase because can treat that as a single phase to get the
full voltage or split phase to get half voltage with 180 shifts.(2 phases)

Now, take that same xformer I have above there and....

X2, X1+X3, X4;

What do you get? You get two different power points sharing a CT but
in phase with each other. And yes, I've seen this done before to avoid
over voltage through grounds if the neutral was ever lifted for some
reason. This basically is only one phase and does not allow you to
use them for double voltage. In fact, you'll get no voltage between X2
and X4.

Oh well.

Jamie

== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 6:29 pm
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 1/22/2011 7:07 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 1/22/2011 4:45 PM Jeffrey Angus spake thus:
>
>> Power distribution being what it is, the 240/120 transformer on the
>> pole is sourced with _ONE_ phase of the 3-phase feed for the area.
>> That there is a center tap allowing for 120/120 or 240 loads is
>> immaterial. It's STILL single phase.
>
> Keep in mind the premise of my original question. Remember I pointed out
> that 120-0-120 current supplied by a center-tapped transformer is *not*
> called "2-phase" by those in the electrical power industry, but that it
> is, in fact, 2-phase power. Do you disagree that there are actually two
> separate phases of power present at the secondary of the transformer?
>
> Regardless of what they call it ...
>
>

Nope, single phase.

The definition of "more than one" phase is a difference
of something other than 0 or 180 degrees.

With either 2-Phase (the old 90 degree system) or 3-phase
(current 120 degree system) the phases can NOT be generated
with a simple transformer. They are generated by multiple
alternators mounted on a common shaft.

With a single transformer, and a center tap, you have two
voltages, in phase, that add together.

It's single phase.

Jeff

== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 6:49 pm
From: Jamie

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

> On 1/22/2011 6:37 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> On 1/22/2011 5:27 AM PeterD spake thus:
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:09:26 -0800, David Nebenzahl
>>> <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The discussion started with a mention of 2-phase power. Turns out
>>>> that in the world of electrical power, this has a specific meaning.
>>>> It refers to a now-obsolete system of generating power in 2 phases
>>>> that were 90° apart, and was used at Niagara Falls:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.3phasepower.org/2phasesystems.htm
>>>>
>>>> And of course there's 3-phase power, widely used today.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is this: several people, myself included, contend that
>>>> the two "legs" of power produced by a center-tapped transformer do,
>>>> in fact, constitute two separate phases of power, 180° apart. (This
>>>> is how household power is delivered in North America, with a
>>>> step-down xfmr at the power pole delivering 240 volts in the form
>>>> of 120-0-120.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, if you want to be correct, the house power is split phase, and
>>> not two phase. I suppose there is an arguement that it is two phase,
>>> but say that to a power engineer and you'll get the old raised
>>> eyebrows response!
>>
>>
>> Welllll ... that's pretty much what I wrote. So I take it you agree with
>> me that it is, in fact, 2-phase power, correct?
>>
>
> In a word, no.
>
> Power distribution being what it is, the 240/120 transformer on the
> pole is sourced with _ONE_ phase of the 3-phase feed for the area.
> That there is a center tap allowing for 120/120 or 240 loads is
> immaterial. It's STILL single phase.
>
> Jeff
>
>
Oh, so now that we have a CT as a neutral (common), how do you explain
the two different phase angles we now have ?

Last time I went to school, phase count was the number of
phase angles you have that are unique in degrees.

does not matter how you derived it..

If I plug in an inverter that operates from a single phase circuit
and it generates 3 phases that are 120 degree's apart, does that mean
it much be single phase because it started from a single phase source?

Jamie

== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 7:15 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/22/2011 6:49 PM Jamie spake thus:

> If I plug in an inverter that operates from a single phase circuit
> and it generates 3 phases that are 120 degree's apart, does that mean
> it much be single phase because it started from a single phase source?

Excellent question. I await answers.

So far, we have two objections to a center-tapped transformer giving two
phases, both very doubtful:

1. Not two phase because the "source" (i.e., the other side of the xfmr)
is single phase.

2. Not two phase because two phases that are 180� are not actually two
phases (?!?!?!).

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 7:17 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeffrey Angus"

>
> Nope, single phase.
>
> The definition of "more than one" phase is a difference
> of something other than 0 or 180 degrees.

** Who's " definition " is that ????

I wonder ........

..... Phil

== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 10:39 pm
From: Bob AZ

>
> And of course there's 3-phase power, widely used today.
>
> The problem is this: several people, myself included, contend that the
> two "legs" of power produced by a center-tapped transformer do, in fact,
> constitute two separate phases of power, 180° apart. (This is how
> household power is delivered in North America, with a step-down xfmr at
> the power pole delivering 240 volts in the form of 120-0-120.)
>

David et al

A specific that many are not aware of and are left wondering when
discussed is the following.

The transformer that feeds your home and many small businesses has a
single phase impressed across the primary winding. Usually called a HV
winding. No big deal for this discussion. The "secondary winding" is
actually two identical windings. Sometimes called tertiary windings.
But this term usually leaves most on the dark. Not a commonly used
term since we don't usually get into the actual electrical and/or
mechanical construction of transformers, let alone the ones feeding
our homes. To most they are simply an unknown on the pole in the alley
or in a pedestal box in the front yard of residential houses.

Back to the actual transformer. A primary winding and two identical
secondary windings. The seondary windings are wound identically within
and about the primary winding. Well insulated of course. The primary
winding impresses each winding identically, in this case, 120 volts.
So the operation of the secondary windings are identical.

The secondary windings are connected in an addtive fashion to give 240
volts across the ends of the connected windings. Their common
terminal, internally connected, is sometimes thought of as a "center"
tap. But the windings are not actually centertapped. They are only
connected in a additive fashion to give the desired 240 volts. 120
volts is of course is simply a connection to a hot lead and the
common terminal. When both windings are utilized we end up with two
"hot" leads which are used for the 120 volt loads. The same additive
principle could be used to give perhaps 360 or 480 volts.

But in no case, with the information presented here, is there any
method or device utilized to give any additional phases. One or two or
more. The hot legs are simply the same phase, transformed as needed,
added within the transformer, with the resultant two hot legs, 180
degrees out of phase with each other. Were the windings connected "in
phase" the available voltage would be 50% and the power, amps,
available doubled.

Three phase distribution starts with a generator with 3 sets of
windings that is distributed as three phase and utuilzed as needed.
Residential as this discussion continues, and large users with many
motor (inductive) loadings commonly found in motors 5 or more HP. The
5 HP figure is an industry norm that takes advantage of the inherent
advantages of 3 phase. Mainly distribution costs and three phase
motors.

Disclaimer: Transformers, power distribution, are not my usual area of
expertise. This would be several different lifelong careers followed
by others. I simply deal with it on an almost daily basis and have for
over 50 years.

Enough for a long day.

Bob AZ

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can people share a satellite account?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0f60ddb458d5e7f9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 2:28 pm
From: Chet Kincaid

Jeroni Paul wrote:
> Since the subscription is usually attached to a card you must insert
> in the box, you can only watch one at a time so you could have
> multiple boxes and multiple TVs but since you have just one active
> card you would have to take the card with you to the one you want to
> watch. This of course assumes the card and box used by that particular
> provider are some standard so you can buy third party boxes compatible
> with the subscription.

Huh? One at a time? Are you saying one can't call up Dish or Direct and
say I have 2 TV's and I want service for both? I assume they then sell or
rent you (whatever the deal is) two boxes and a dish and equipment suitable
to drive both boxes. I further presume that one subscription for two TV's,
while probably more costly than a single TV, would still be a lot less than
two separate subscriptions.

> Yes, you can connect your converter box to any dish pointed to the
> right satellite and it will work and they will not know unless you
> connect the box to a phone line and the box calls by phone so they
> could see its is calling from another number. I don't know if any
> control exists about the number the call originates from.

Is that how pay per view works, it has to call in?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Polaroid Pola-Pack battery chemistry
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/84793df5d234c33c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 2:44 pm
From: Steve Kraus

William Sommerwerck wrote:
> The Tungsten T3 is still manufacturerd, though not, apparently, sold
> by Palm. Palm is legally obliged to provide parts for it, but refuses
> to. Even if it weren't manufactured, it has been less than 10 years
> since it was discontinued, and Palm is obligated to provide
> electrical/electronic parts.

Those laws probably do not say anything about pricing, do they? What good
is forcing compliance if they would say "Fine...How many batteries do you
want? They're $1000 each?"

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 3:11 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"Steve Kraus" <screen@SPAMBLOCKfilmteknik.com> wrote in message
news:1oqdnaMvYa4qwKbQnZ2dnUVZ_u2dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> The Tungsten T3 is still manufacturerd, though not, apparently, sold
>> by Palm. Palm is legally obliged to provide parts for it, but refuses
>> to. Even if it weren't manufactured, it has been less than 10 years
>> since it was discontinued, and Palm is obligated to provide
>> electrical/electronic parts.

> Those laws probably do not say anything about pricing, do they?
> What good is forcing compliance if they would say "Fine...How
> many batteries do you want? They're $1000 each?"

In the two cases where I forced companies to provide service or service
parts, they complied at a reasonable price.

Manufacturers (or importers) often gouge on the price of service parts. But
if they have the parts, they're not going to charge such a huge price that
the item won't sell at all.

In one case where I complained about the cost of a replacement headphone
cable (about 60% of the retail price of the complete headphone!), the
manufacturer was so upset by the ridiculousness of the price that they
simply sent me the cable for free (without my asking)! It was the beginning
of a beautiful friendship.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HELP:Low-pass filter on frequency counter
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/af7e3957bfd640b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 3:38 pm
From: "caius"

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:8pug4kFs56U1@mid.individual.net...
> ** Errr - as you only want to measure 60Hz, why not have a LP filter at
say
> 100Hz ??
>
> A 10kohm resistor and a 0.15uF film cap ought to work - .

I added a RC filter with a a 10kohm resistor and a 0.15uF film (cut-off
frequency at 106.2 Hz) but now I get no readings at all.

plus keep the input
> level down to something the frequency counter likes

The sensivity of my counter is:

"AC" 100Hz-50MHz<120mVrms

"DC" 0.01Hz-1Hz?500mVp-p,

1Hz-100Hz?80mVrms.

How can I know the amplitude or strenght) of the signal I'm measuring anf if
it's out of the sensivity of the counter?I know only that the signal is at
+4.78 Volt

This is the manual:

http://www.emclr.co.uk/productdownloads/prod_45/VC3165%20User%20Manual.pdf

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reduce power of a microwave oven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/76e6c7ef368fc8a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 4:42 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/22/2011 7:56 AM Arfa Daily spake thus:

> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4d3a729e$0$15850$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> On 1/21/2011 6:02 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>>>
>>> Actually, I think that it is quite a useful comment, as in my
>>> experience in the electronics service business, many techs -
>>> particularly modern ones - have no understanding that a resistor
>>> has a maximum working voltage rating, and have even laughed at
>>> the very idea when I have suggested it to them, until I have
>>> shown them in a component catalogue. I'm willing to bet that
>>> prior to this exchange, there were more than a few reading what
>>> Michael said, and doing just that ...
>>
>> Well, I have to admit that it (maximum resistor voltage ratings)
>> doesn't often occur to me, simply because I don't work with HV. But
>> the person Mr. Terrell responded to above was certainly aware of
>> why his resistor got blown to smithereens. Hence my annoyance.
>
> I see that, but some other less experienced people reading the thread, may
> well have learnt something from the comment. Still, all sorted now, and
> everyone's up to speed on resistor voltage ratings !

Well, point taken.

While we're on the subject, where would one get HV resistors, anyhow?
Any US suppliers?

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pet hates ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 4:41 pm
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <prestwhich-C22464.10255622012011@mx02.eternal-september.org>,
Smitty Two <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Slightly confusing as a 1/2 AF
> > spanner fits a 5/16ths thread.

> Unless it doesn't. We often use "small pattern" hex nuts, which have
> thinner walls, hence driven with a smaller wrench. (lay Americans have
> no idea what a "spanner" is, but when used here it usually quite
> specifically means a very thin open-end wrench, often just made of
> stamped steel, designed for tight quarters.)

Not come across those on UK cars. Where you need a smaller head than
standard, normally allen, torx or even one with curved sides which is an
exact fit to the next size down bi-hex socket. Basically to make the head
round or as near as possible to give maximum strength.

A wrench in the UK usually means an adjustable spanner of some sort, so
only used by amateurs. ;-)

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 6:12 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/21/2011 5:41 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:

> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:ih9d1s$o32$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>>>> It's hard /not/ to interpret such a description as an
>>>> intentional insult. I can't imagine what it actually means --
>>>> in any innocuous sense, anyway.
>>
>>> There ya go then!
>>
>> Please don't semi-quote Ronald Reagan. It's not becoming.
>
> I'm afraid that's just too 'in-American' for me. I actually haven't a clue
> what you are talking about ...

"There you go again!" was Reagan's annoying pet reply to his critics
(read "typical for a Commie pinko socialist bleeding-heart ...").

Good to read that not everyone here reveres this simple-minded wrecker
of what he invariably called "guv'mint" ...

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 6:21 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:

> He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few miles
> down the Interstate from LA

OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:

Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call
them that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as
"turnpikes" in some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even
know what an "interstate" is ...

In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in
usage between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San
Francisco and thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a
road (highway, interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road
number, as in "the 405", "the 101", etc.

But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TEAC 1/2" Open-Reel Schematic Needed
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/576b66e4a8299d50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 6:48 pm
From: "Chris F."

I have a Teac Model 80-8 1/2" open reel machine I have to repair for a
customer. This is the first 1/2", 8-track machine I've worked on and it's
clear I'm going to need a schematic. The main problem is that some channels
are sounding through to others; for example, with a signal connected to
channel 1 only, it sounds over to channel 2 and faintly to channel 3. This
happens even when monitoring the input without a tape loaded, ruling out a
head alignment issue.
Any advice, or especially a schematic, would be appreciated.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 9:18 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Chris F."
>
> I have a Teac Model 80-8 1/2" open reel machine I have to repair for a
> customer. This is the first 1/2", 8-track machine I've worked on and it's
> clear I'm going to need a schematic. The main problem is that some
> channels are sounding through to others; for example, with a signal
> connected to channel 1 only, it sounds over to channel 2 and faintly to
> channel 3. This happens even when monitoring the input without a tape
> loaded, ruling out a head alignment issue.
> Any advice, or especially a schematic, would be appreciated.

** Have you tried shorting the unused inputs while testing ??

This is how the recorder would be used in practice.

.... Phil

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 9:52 pm
From: forte agent

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 18:48:16 -0800, "Chris F." <zappyman@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> I have a Teac Model 80-8 1/2" open reel machine I have to repair for a
>customer. This is the first 1/2", 8-track machine I've worked on and it's
>clear I'm going to need a schematic. The main problem is that some channels
>are sounding through to others; for example, with a signal connected to
>channel 1 only, it sounds over to channel 2 and faintly to channel 3. This
>happens even when monitoring the input without a tape loaded, ruling out a
>head alignment issue.
> Any advice, or especially a schematic, would be appreciated.
>

You should be able to get the service manual from:

TEAC America inc
7733 Telegraph Road
Montebello, CA 90640

Parts Department:
voice: (323) 727-4840
fax: (323) 727-7632
e-mail: parts@teac.com

I do know that they had copies of the manuals for many of their
old to ancient(early 70's) tape machines.
I worked there for a year and a half and they were still repairing
1/4, 1/2, 1 , and larger machines at that time (3 1/2 years ago)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CMOS Wake On Alarm Question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c64a2d9790f6fd2a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 8:24 pm
From: Sjouke Burry

John Keiser wrote:
> I have a Acer Verition M460 [AMI BIOS R01-C3] with WindowsXP SP3.
> I had the CMOS set to wake and boot every morning. Worked fine for several
> years.
> Then intermittent, now not at all.
> In the morning the power light is on and the NIC light is sometimes on.
> Screen has no info and the PC has stopped short of actually booting [so
> Event Viewer has no info]. I simply hold the power button 3 seconds and
> repower up. Always successful.
> Time/date is accurate but I changed the CMOS battery and re-enabled the RTC
> alarm.
> No joy.
> Obviously not a major issue but I am curious, any idea why this is
> happening?
> Thank you.
>
>
>
Try another supply, it sounds as if the standby 5volt is flaky.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Awesome speakers!!
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/19ed616a0fe70f02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 22 2011 9:03 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 21 Jan 2011 08:43:28 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
<jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:

>My memory served me well. He used 9"x13"x24" chimney flue tile, and cut
>it in two, by making an angled cut, using a masonry blade attached to a
>skil saw.

Concrete evidence that concrete speakers are better:
<http://www.io.com/~dylan/speakers/>
<http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=de|en&u=http://propirate.net/betonboxen/&prev=/language_tools>

>Reply With Quote

Well, if you insist... Quote.

>Jeff
>the other other one.

Jeff, the right one.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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