sci.electronics.repair - 26 new messages in 9 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pet hates ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 12:59 am
From: "N_Cook"

Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnijnqfo.euo.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
> > Then of course there's Johnny Carson's old favorite, the "Slauson
> > Cutoff" ...
>
> My favorite Israeli highway story is about route 1, the road from
Jerusalem
> to Tel Aviv. Although Tel Aviv is a little over 100 years old, the
original
> city of Jaffa (aka Yaffo) has been there since biblical times, and this is
> at least in spirit, that road.
>
> Meanwhile Israeli's are big fans of acronyms. The Hebrew abreviation of
> airport is N T and the main one here is named Ben Gurion. So the name of
> the airport on road signs is written in Hebrew NTBG, which is pronnounced
> "not bog".
>
> About fifteen years ago in a refurbishment of route 1, someone decided
> that there should be English signs on the road for tourists who could not
> read Hebrew. So a set of signs went up for the airport "NATBAG 1km". :-)
>
> Yes, they were later changed to "Ben Gurion Airport 1km".
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
> Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

I wonder what visitors to the UK make of official roadsigns, imagining a
country infested with triffids , that say
Large Plant Crossing

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 6:02 am
From: "Michael Kennedy"

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>
>> He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few
>> miles down the Interstate from LA
>
> OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:
>
> Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
> Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
> they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call them
> that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as "turnpikes" in
> some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even know what an
> "interstate" is ...
>
> In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
> near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in usage
> between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San Francisco and
> thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a road (highway,
> interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road number, as in
> "the 405", "the 101", etc.
>
> But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
> much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
> instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get down
> to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who refer
> to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)
>
>
> --
> Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:
>
> To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
> who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
> that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

California is strange..

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 6:08 am
From: "Michael Kennedy"

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3be2e9$0$4737$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 1/23/2011 12:02 AM Smitty Two spake thus:
>
>> In article <4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
>> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>
>>> But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
>>> much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
>>> instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
>>> down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
>>> refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)
>>
>> I don't think Arfa is going to "blend" whether he uses your terminology
>> or not, and I doubt that's his objective. But you wrote an awful lot of
>> words without using "freeway," which is what we call the 101 here, and is
>> the most common word for "interstate highway" throughout the midwest, as
>> well.
>
> Yup, my bad; thought of it shortly after clicking "Send", of course.
>
>> BTW, everyone I know in LA doesn't use numbers at all, but names that are
>> meaningless to outsiders even if they have a map: "Ventura freeway,"
>> "Hollywood freeway," "Pasadena freeway," etc.
>
> Forgot about that too. Our freeways also have names, but they're (mostly)
> unused: one occasionally hears 880 called "the Nimitz" or 80 "the
> Eastshore", but more often not.
>
> Then of course there's Johnny Carson's old favorite, the "Slauson Cutoff"
> ...
>
>
> --
> Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:
>
> To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
> who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
> that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

In Florida many people call the "Interstate Highways" by its number.. For
example Interstate 4 is just I4. Other examples are I95 I75.. But it is
perfectly normal to hear take 75 or Take 95, although take 4 seems a bit
rare.

We have a turnpike as well. It refers to the first large toll road in
Florida.. (I believe it was the first.) Because it's officail name is The
Florida Turnpike or The Ronald Regan Turnpike.. It has 2 names..

Anyhow, I have wasted enough of your time now..

Mike

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 8:59 am
From: Allodoxaphobia

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:02:48 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>
> California is strange..

It's only January and we have
the winner for The Understatement Of 2011.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 9:23 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

Thank you for that enlightening dissertation ! However, as you say, it's not
actually *wrong* to call them Interstates - for that is what they are, as
evidenced by their designation "I" xxx - just 'not quite right' in your neck
of the woods. It's been a while since I was last in California, but I'm sure
I recall the I5 being referred to as 'The Interstate' by the guys in the
factory that I used to visit. Maybe in 20 years, or whatever it is now, the
usage of the term has changed. I could be wrong, but I thought that the big
road running just to the west of the Las Vegas strip was referred to locally
as 'The Interstate' or 'The Freeway', likewise the I75 and I95 in Florida,
although I have seen this term 'turnpike' over the that side of the country.
Perhaps Michael can enlighten us on the usage of the words over there in
'gator country ... ?

Arfa

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 11:41 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
> On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>
> > He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few miles
> > down the Interstate from LA
>
> OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:
>
> Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
> Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
> they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call
> them that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as
> "turnpikes" in some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even
> know what an "interstate" is ...
>
> In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
> near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in
> usage between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San
> Francisco and thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a
> road (highway, interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road
> number, as in "the 405", "the 101", etc.
>
> But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
> much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
> instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get
> down to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who
> refer to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)

The midwest and southeast do call them either Interstate or
abbreviate it to 'I'. This is a good thing, since they run a thousand
miles or more. In fact, I lived about 15 miles from I-75 in Ohio. It's
about the same distance from me, in Florida. I can't recall anyone not
using this terminology in the 20+ years I've lived here, or the 30 +
years I lived in Ohio. The only place I've been with no Interstate
Highway was in Alaska. Everywhere else, they used the same terminology.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 11:42 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Michael Kennedy wrote:
>
> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> > On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
> >
> >> He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few
> >> miles down the Interstate from LA
> >
> > OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:
> >
> > Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
> > Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
> > they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call them
> > that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as "turnpikes" in
> > some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even know what an
> > "interstate" is ...
> >
> > In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
> > near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in usage
> > between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San Francisco and
> > thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a road (highway,
> > interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road number, as in
> > "the 405", "the 101", etc.
> >
> > But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
> > much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
> > instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get down
> > to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who refer
> > to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:
> >
> > To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
> > who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
> > that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
>
> California is strange..

Why do you think it's called 'The land of Fruits & Nuts'?

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 11:44 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Arfa Daily wrote:
>
> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4d3b9067$0$2378$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> > On 1/21/2011 5:43 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
> >
> >> He was in sunny Caffy-lornia ... Costa Mesa in Orange County, a few
> >> miles down the Interstate from LA
> >
> > OK, Arf, a small lesson in regional US dialects, free of charge:
> >
> > Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
> > Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
> > they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call them
> > that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as "turnpikes" in
> > some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even know what an
> > "interstate" is ...
> >
> > In any case, just in case you actually visit Caleefonia sometime in the
> > near future, you should also be aware of an important difference in usage
> > between SoCal (basically El-Lay and environs) and NoCal (San Francisco and
> > thereabouts). Down there, they don't use *any* noun for a road (highway,
> > interstate, etc.), but they do use articles with the road number, as in
> > "the 405", "the 101", etc.
> >
> > But beware: up here in the Beige Area, where we like to think we're so
> > much superior to our SoCal cousins, we never use the article, saying
> > instead "take 80 to get to Berkeley" or "take 101 to 280 to 17 to get down
> > to Santa Cruz". (One can easily spot newcomers to San Francisco who refer
> > to "the 80" or "the 101". That's just SO wrong!)
> >
> >
> > --
>
> Thank you for that enlightening dissertation ! However, as you say, it's not
> actually *wrong* to call them Interstates - for that is what they are, as
> evidenced by their designation "I" xxx - just 'not quite right' in your neck
> of the woods. It's been a while since I was last in California, but I'm sure
> I recall the I5 being referred to as 'The Interstate' by the guys in the
> factory that I used to visit. Maybe in 20 years, or whatever it is now, the
> usage of the term has changed. I could be wrong, but I thought that the big
> road running just to the west of the Las Vegas strip was referred to locally
> as 'The Interstate' or 'The Freeway', likewise the I75 and I95 in Florida,
> although I have seen this term 'turnpike' over the that side of the country.
> Perhaps Michael can enlighten us on the usage of the words over there in
> 'gator country ... ?

The 'turnpike' is a toll road. http://www.floridasturnpike.com/

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nickel plated polyimide--where to get?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8bee83d05dbdcb50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 1:48 am
From: Robert Baer

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> Robert Baer wrote:
>>> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>>>> "Phil Hobbs"<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:5d2dnTpQK8jsJaTQnZ2dnUVZ_jCdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>>>>>> Wouldn't it be possible to make the polyimide conductive by rubbing
>>>>>>> graphite into its surface ("The Audio Amateur" had at least one
>>>>>>> article
>>>>>>> about home-made electrostatic speakers that showed how to do this
>>>>>>> with Mylar), then plate it?
>>>>>> I'd be worried about the film adhesion--the nickel would only stick as
>>>>>> well as the graphite. Plating plastic involves stuff like chromic acid
>>>>>> dips, reducing palladium salts to form Pd nucleation sites on the film,
>>>>>> and then electroless plating.
>>>>>> Not your ideal home project unfortunately!
>>>>> Thanks for the clarification.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the sort of problem you'd think would have been solved
>>>>> decades ago.
>>>>> The original SX-70 used copper-coated (plated?) polysulfone, which
>>>>> was then
>>>>> plated with nickel and chrome. The plating sticks to the plastic with a
>>>>> tenacity that's almost unbelievable. You actually have to break the
>>>>> plastic
>>>>> before the plating comes loose.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Oh, it's been solved, all right--Minco advertises nickel film RTDs. I
>>>> tried to get them to make the films, but they either couldn't or
>>>> didn't want to, and I didn't want to have to deal with making
>>>> artwork--I'm going to pattern it with a Sharpie and some ferric
>>>> chloride. (Ferric chloride works well on thin sputtered nickel, so I'm
>>>> hoping the plated stuff doesn't have some weird passivation. I should
>>>> try it out on a bolt or something before I take the plunge. Of course
>>>> I can also electropolish it away in KOH solution.)
>>>>
>>>> BTW the Minco rep is a good guy, who gave me a steer to somebody who
>>>> may be their supplier--I just haven't heard from them yet.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, if it works, I'll try licensing it to them. ;) It should be
>>>> good for at least 100x reduction in thermal forcing for the down-hole
>>>> application I'm working on--sort of the thermal equivalent of a
>>>> Faraday shield.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>>
>>> Jut had a dumb idea..how about unrolling mylar or other plastic caps?
>> I don't think I could find a 6-inch long one to begin with.... ;)
>
>
> Then my roll of metalized film from Sprague won't help you. It came
> from their Orlando plant closing, about 20 years ago.
>
>
Aluminized mylar is almost as common as dirt, available in various
reflectance/transmission ratios.
I assume that the conductivity is too much where there *is*
conductivity to begin with.
I am making a wild guess that gold films on mylar are worse for
conductivity even tho thinner films would retain integrity.
So..sounds like you need to find company that can "nickelize" mylar
or kapton, and is willing to do so on a sample basis.
Maybe a pitch to bend them your way.."if you do this sample for me, i
will make you the exclusive contractor for ((fill in reasonable info
without disclosing farm)).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOT&EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS&VIDEOS
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f06b729f0a6cf7a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 2:12 am
From: sravani loves u

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TEAC 1/2" Open-Reel Schematic Needed
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/576b66e4a8299d50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 4:33 am
From: "Pimpom"

Chris F. wrote:
> I have a Teac Model 80-8 1/2" open reel machine I have to
> repair for
> a customer. This is the first 1/2", 8-track machine I've worked
> on
> and it's clear I'm going to need a schematic. The main problem
> is
> that some channels are sounding through to others; for example,
> with
> a signal connected to channel 1 only, it sounds over to channel
> 2 and
> faintly to channel 3. This happens even when monitoring the
> input
> without a tape loaded, ruling out a head alignment issue.
> Any advice, or especially a schematic, would be appreciated.

http://www.analogrules.com/manuals/tascam.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 11:59 am
From: "Pimpom"

Phil Allison wrote:
> "Chris F."
>>
>> I have a Teac Model 80-8 1/2" open reel machine I have to
>> repair
>> for a customer. This is the first 1/2", 8-track machine I've
>> worked
>> on and it's clear I'm going to need a schematic. The main
>> problem is
>> that some channels are sounding through to others; for
>> example, with
>> a signal connected to channel 1 only, it sounds over to
>> channel 2
>> and faintly to channel 3. This happens even when monitoring
>> the
>> input without a tape loaded, ruling out a head alignment
>> issue.
>> Any advice, or especially a schematic, would be appreciated.
>
>
> ** Have you tried shorting the unused inputs while testing ??
>
> This is how the recorder would be used in practice.
>
If that doesn't eliminate the crosstalk, I'd suspect a common
power supply filter in the low-level stages. Perhaps a dried-up
cap.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Two phases or not?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a29a801d6e01e9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 7:05 am
From: Jamie

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

> On 1/22/2011 7:07 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> On 1/22/2011 4:45 PM Jeffrey Angus spake thus:
>>
>>> Power distribution being what it is, the 240/120 transformer on the
>>> pole is sourced with _ONE_ phase of the 3-phase feed for the area.
>>> That there is a center tap allowing for 120/120 or 240 loads is
>>> immaterial. It's STILL single phase.
>>
>>
>> Keep in mind the premise of my original question. Remember I pointed out
>> that 120-0-120 current supplied by a center-tapped transformer is *not*
>> called "2-phase" by those in the electrical power industry, but that it
>> is, in fact, 2-phase power. Do you disagree that there are actually two
>> separate phases of power present at the secondary of the transformer?
>>
>> Regardless of what they call it ...
>>
>>
>
> Nope, single phase.
>
> The definition of "more than one" phase is a difference
> of something other than 0 or 180 degrees.
>
> With either 2-Phase (the old 90 degree system) or 3-phase
> (current 120 degree system) the phases can NOT be generated
> with a simple transformer. They are generated by multiple
> alternators mounted on a common shaft.
>
> With a single transformer, and a center tap, you have two
> voltages, in phase, that add together.
>
> It's single phase.
>
> Jeff
Big JOKE!

You fail.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 7:02 am
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 1/23/2011 9:05 AM, Jamie wrote:
> Jeffrey Angus wrote:
>> It's single phase.
>>
>> Jeff
> Big JOKE!
>
> You fail.

I bow to your superior logic and wit.

Jeff

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 9:22 am
From: Mark Cross

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> A disagreement arose
> thereafter about whether a center-tapped transformer actually delivers
> two separate phases of electricity or not.

> So, what do y'all say?

Formally, yes, there exist two phases set apart 180º. But formally also that
is never called a "two-phase system".

Reasons:
1.- In polyphase system there is an usual understanding that phases are
different when you can not get the other phase by simple means other than
using transformers (or transformer arrays). In a 3 Phase system, there is no
way to get a phase 120º away by adding, subtracting or switching cable ends
of one phase. In a true two phase system, be it a three wire part of a 3
phase system or the Niagara example, there is no way to get the other phase
(120º or 90º) by playing with the connections. In a "split phase" system,
the 180º phase is equal (in a balanced system) to the other one by just
exchanging the "hot" and "ground" wires.

2.- The phase supplying the power to the "split-phase" winding in the
secondary of home transformers is only ONE, there is no way to get more than
ONE phase out, even if formally the secondary winding could be measured
reversing the leads and appear as the negative value (hence the 180º figure)
Those two windings of the "split-phase system" are connected in such a way
as to provide a total voltage of 240V but could have been connected in
parallel to provide the double of current in one phase at 120V. Such
parallel connection would produce a "short" and high currents if in fact the
two windings were being driven by two distinct phases no matter what games
you play with the wire ends.

So, that's why any power engineer will raise an eyebrow if you address such
system with the clearly incorrect term of "two-phase system".

--
Mark Cross
If Linux doesn't have the solution, you have the wrong problem.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 11:23 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Jeffrey Angus wrote:
>
> On 1/23/2011 9:05 AM, Jamie wrote:
> > Jeffrey Angus wrote:
> >> It's single phase.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> > Big JOKE!
> >
> > You fail.
>
> I bow to your superior logic and wit.

Look at his website before you concede.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5/

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 11:27 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Phil Allison wrote:
>
> "Bob AZ"
>
> ( snip tedious drivel)
>
> But in no case, with the information presented here, is there any
> method or device utilized to give any additional phases. One or two or
> more. The hot legs are simply the same phase, transformed as needed,
> added within the transformer, with the resultant two hot legs, 180
> degrees out of phase with each other.
>
> ** A really beautiful example of "double think" if I ever saw one.
>
> Three phase distribution starts with a generator with 3 sets of
> windings that is distributed as three phase and utuilzed as needed.
>
> ** And if it had only 2 windings instead of 3 ??
>
> Two AC waves would be produced simultaneously, remaining always 180 degrees
> apart in phase and be completely * indistinguishable * from any other means
> of creating the same situation.

If the generator had two windings, they would be 90 degrees out of
phase. It makes zero sense to have them at 180 degrees, since the
windings would have to share the slots, reducing the availible current
by half.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 4:44 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

These comments are logical and correct representations of the power system
that most of us use. For single phase motors, a 120VAC motor is a
single-phase motor, just as a 240VAC motor is referred to as a single-phase
motor, not a 2-phase motor because it's using 2 hot lines.

This issue is one that just gets argued endlessly by amateurs and intellects
to no end.. essentially a waste of useful time on an issue that's widely
misunderstood for all the wrong reasons.

Pick the issue apart just for sport, if you like, but the majority of
domestic power supplies are single-phase.. period.

Look anywhere you can for a New 2-phase motor.
The only individuals that would be describing a new motor as a 2-phase motor
will be some misguided trainee or someone taking advantage of your stupidity
of asking for one.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"Mark Cross" <markcross.gpg.01@gmx.com> wrote in message
news:2156246.bQZG1OUAWM@rnqqfki.new.org.invalid...
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> A disagreement arose
>> thereafter about whether a center-tapped transformer actually delivers
>> two separate phases of electricity or not.
>
>> So, what do y'all say?
>
> Formally, yes, there exist two phases set apart 180º. But formally also
> that
> is never called a "two-phase system".
>
> Reasons:
> 1.- In polyphase system there is an usual understanding that phases are
> different when you can not get the other phase by simple means other than
> using transformers (or transformer arrays). In a 3 Phase system, there is
> no
> way to get a phase 120º away by adding, subtracting or switching cable
> ends
> of one phase. In a true two phase system, be it a three wire part of a 3
> phase system or the Niagara example, there is no way to get the other
> phase
> (120º or 90º) by playing with the connections. In a "split phase" system,
> the 180º phase is equal (in a balanced system) to the other one by just
> exchanging the "hot" and "ground" wires.
>
> 2.- The phase supplying the power to the "split-phase" winding in the
> secondary of home transformers is only ONE, there is no way to get more
> than
> ONE phase out, even if formally the secondary winding could be measured
> reversing the leads and appear as the negative value (hence the 180º
> figure)
> Those two windings of the "split-phase system" are connected in such a way
> as to provide a total voltage of 240V but could have been connected in
> parallel to provide the double of current in one phase at 120V. Such
> parallel connection would produce a "short" and high currents if in fact
> the
> two windings were being driven by two distinct phases no matter what games
> you play with the wire ends.
>
> So, that's why any power engineer will raise an eyebrow if you address
> such
> system with the clearly incorrect term of "two-phase system".
>
> --
> Mark Cross
> If Linux doesn't have the solution, you have the wrong problem.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 4:47 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Wild_Bill"

>
> These comments are logical and correct representations of the power system
> that most of us use. For single phase motors, a 120VAC motor is a
> single-phase motor, just as a 240VAC motor is referred to as a
> single-phase motor, not a 2-phase motor because it's using 2 hot lines.

** Massive straw man fallacy.

Why am I not surprised it comes from a fucking TOP POSTER !!

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Type K themorcouple
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7b17a33b38bf2d5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 7:46 am
From: PeterD

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:47:52 -0800, Smitty Two
<prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote:

>In article <4d3b38b1$0$7528$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
> Jeffrey Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Anybody have a Type K thermocouple laying about they don't need?
>> Even if it's just a chunk of Type-wire. I can weld the end if
>> need be.
>>
>> THanks
>> Jeff
>
>I've got the wire.

I just got two cheap Chinese probes on eBay for about $4 each... (I
got them for the connectors, I have some good ones, but no connectors
for them). That is another alternative if you want to go that way.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 8:11 am
From: Jamie

PeterD wrote:

> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:47:52 -0800, Smitty Two
> <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <4d3b38b1$0$7528$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
>>Jeffrey Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Anybody have a Type K thermocouple laying about they don't need?
>>>Even if it's just a chunk of Type-wire. I can weld the end if
>>>need be.
>>>
>>>THanks
>>>Jeff
>>
>>I've got the wire.
>
>
> I just got two cheap Chinese probes on eBay for about $4 each... (I
> got them for the connectors, I have some good ones, but no connectors
> for them). That is another alternative if you want to go that way.
>
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=smpw-cc
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OSTW-CC&Nav=

$2.95

Cheaper there.

Jamie

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 4:45 pm
From: PeterD

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:11:34 -0500, Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote:

>PeterD wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 23:47:52 -0800, Smitty Two
>> <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <4d3b38b1$0$7528$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
>>>Jeffrey Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anybody have a Type K thermocouple laying about they don't need?
>>>>Even if it's just a chunk of Type-wire. I can weld the end if
>>>>need be.
>>>>
>>>>THanks
>>>>Jeff
>>>
>>>I've got the wire.
>>
>>
>> I just got two cheap Chinese probes on eBay for about $4 each... (I
>> got them for the connectors, I have some good ones, but no connectors
>> for them). That is another alternative if you want to go that way.
>>
>http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=smpw-cc
>http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OSTW-CC&Nav=
>
>$2.95
>
>Cheaper there.
>
>Jamie
>

Crap, wish I'd seen that page before! <g>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reduce power of a microwave oven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/76e6c7ef368fc8a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 9:35 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3b7943$0$2711$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 1/22/2011 7:56 AM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>
>> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>> news:4d3a729e$0$15850$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>
>>> On 1/21/2011 6:02 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I think that it is quite a useful comment, as in my
>>>> experience in the electronics service business, many techs -
>>>> particularly modern ones - have no understanding that a resistor
>>>> has a maximum working voltage rating, and have even laughed at
>>>> the very idea when I have suggested it to them, until I have
>>>> shown them in a component catalogue. I'm willing to bet that
>>>> prior to this exchange, there were more than a few reading what
>>>> Michael said, and doing just that ...
>>>
>>> Well, I have to admit that it (maximum resistor voltage ratings)
>>> doesn't often occur to me, simply because I don't work with HV. But
>>> the person Mr. Terrell responded to above was certainly aware of
>>> why his resistor got blown to smithereens. Hence my annoyance.
>>
>> I see that, but some other less experienced people reading the thread,
>> may well have learnt something from the comment. Still, all sorted now,
>> and everyone's up to speed on resistor voltage ratings !
>
> Well, point taken.
>
> While we're on the subject, where would one get HV resistors, anyhow? Any
> US suppliers?
>
>
> --

I haven't seen any *very* high voltage resistors for some time now in
catalogues, although I expect if you went looking for them, they are still
around from specialist manufacturers. Most that are readily available here
in the UK are rated at up to 400v for some, rather less for others. If I am
replacing a resistor that is going to have a lot of volts across it - for
instance a bleed or voltage sharing resistor across a high voltage cap in a
tube amplifier - I tend to make one up from two half-value resistors in
series. Likewise, when replacing some anode load resistors in 12AX7 or
whatever stages, as these are often 100k connected to a rail of up to 400v,
with the actual anode voltage at the other end, two or even three hundred
volts lower than that. Two 47k resistors rated at 250v each, and connected
in series, ensure that the replacement is up to the job, long term.

Arfa

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 10:38 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
> On 1/22/2011 7:56 AM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>
> > "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> > news:4d3a729e$0$15850$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> >
> >> On 1/21/2011 6:02 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
> >>>
> >>> Actually, I think that it is quite a useful comment, as in my
> >>> experience in the electronics service business, many techs -
> >>> particularly modern ones - have no understanding that a resistor
> >>> has a maximum working voltage rating, and have even laughed at
> >>> the very idea when I have suggested it to them, until I have
> >>> shown them in a component catalogue. I'm willing to bet that
> >>> prior to this exchange, there were more than a few reading what
> >>> Michael said, and doing just that ...
> >>
> >> Well, I have to admit that it (maximum resistor voltage ratings)
> >> doesn't often occur to me, simply because I don't work with HV. But
> >> the person Mr. Terrell responded to above was certainly aware of
> >> why his resistor got blown to smithereens. Hence my annoyance.
> >
> > I see that, but some other less experienced people reading the thread, may
> > well have learnt something from the comment. Still, all sorted now, and
> > everyone's up to speed on resistor voltage ratings !
>
> Well, point taken.
>
> While we're on the subject, where would one get HV resistors, anyhow?
> Any US suppliers?

http://www.caddock.com/
http://www.ohmite.com/cgi-bin/products.cgi
http://www.ohmcraft.com/resistors/

http://www2.eem.com/ is a database of electronics manufacturers where
you should find more. Several brands I used to use are no longer in
busines or at least under their original names.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can people share a satellite account?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0f60ddb458d5e7f9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 11:29 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Chet Kincaid wrote:
>
> Huh? One at a time? Are you saying one can't call up Dish or Direct and
> say I have 2 TV's and I want service for both? I assume they then sell or
> rent you (whatever the deal is) two boxes and a dish and equipment suitable
> to drive both boxes. I further presume that one subscription for two TV's,
> while probably more costly than a single TV, would still be a lot less than
> two separate subscriptions.

They also install the equiment.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Our Heavenly Mother 5-3-01
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/115f5947374d6dd2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 23 2011 2:30 pm
From: mier

Our Heavenly Mother says,
"Human life has been gifted with so many gifts that nothing or no one
can fully understand, but it is important to recognize the fact that a
human being has been gifted with a Soul, a Connecting Link, a Portion
of The Divine Creator."

REVELATION DELIVERED THROUGH FRANCES M. KLUG ON MAY 3,2001 AT 12:55
P.M.

OUR HEAVENLY MOTHER

"I am your Heavenly Mother. It is important that more men, women
and children hear of this Gift of Divine Love. There is no place
throughout the world that The Father has Designed such a Precious,
Important Gift, as This One is, at this time.

We know it is difficult for many to accept, even the Written
Word, on a phenomenon as Great as This One is.

So many men, women and children are constantly asking for
help, personal, and for others who they feel need help in certain
areas. It is important for everyone to remember that through prayer,
through the communication of human life to Anyone Here in the Heavens,
the communication is heard.

Human life has been gifted with so many gifts that nothing or
no one can fully understand, but it is important to recognize the fact
that a human being has been gifted with a Soul, a Connecting Link, a
Portion of The Divine Creator.

So much has been directed to be put into script from this Gift
of The Father's Love, that bears the Name of The Beloved Saint Joseph.
It is important never to stop spreading this Gift, because there is no
one in the world who should be left out of learning of their Close
Association to The Divine Creator.

We hear individuals say to each other, 'We are soul mates.'
This means that they understand each other, they communicate well
together, and they are there for the other one on conditions or
situations that could be troublesome to one or the other. This
definition obviously came from the fact that there is an innate
understanding in human beings that the word 'Soul' has an Importance
in it, with it, to it, on it.

As I close My Words, I beseech you to always remember you are
never alone, because within you, you have a Portion of The Creator
given at the moment of conception, and will remain until The Father
causes It in some way to return to Him.

Today as I close My time with you, it is Important, All that
has been delivered through this Gift of Divine Love, that applies to
every facet of human life, that encourages human beings to more fully
understand the Importance of human life in Divine Plan. So be it."

Saint Joseph's Hill Of Hope
Brea, California 92822 U.S.A.
www.TheMiracleOfStJoseph.org
All Revelations are delivered spontaneously
and continuously as witnessed by all those present at the time.
Copyright 1996 FMK
This is used with the permission of the copyright holder.

==============================================================================

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