sci.electronics.repair - 18 new messages in 8 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Electrolytics blow after 1 hr
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/22739e68af51f6a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:38 pm
From: Jamie

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Another day in bad caps hell. I fish a Dell GX520 out of the pile at
> the local recycler and proceed to try and raise the dead. I've done
> this many times with good success, but not this time. Upon initial
> inspection, I find the usual bulging electrolytic caps. There were 4
> identical caps, 2200uF 6.3VDC 105C. I replace them with 2200uF 10VDC
> 105C caps (Panasonic ECA-1AHG222). Note the increase in working
> voltage. These are brand new caps from Digikey. I run the unit
> overnight and find that two of the caps now have bulging tops.
>
> Assuming that I may have had some marginal caps in the bag (unlikely
> but worth testing), I replace the two that bulged with 2200uF 10v 85C
> caps (Panasonic ECA-1AM222) also from Digikey. This is somewhat of a
> downgrade, but should work. I also replace the power supply, for no
> better reason than I had a spare.
>
> Same problem as before. The two caps blew their tops within a few
> hours, leaking caustic goo.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GX520-bad-caps.jpg>
> The two large black caps in the foreground are the surviving 105C
> caps, while the blue caps in the background, are the bulging 85C caps.
>
> Using my finger and a thermocouple thermometer, I determined that the
> bulging caps are not getting warm or at least are not any warmer than
> other nearby components.
>
> I've replace literally hundreds of caps but I've never seen this
> before. It really makes me wonder if the bad caps problem might be
> caused by something other than defective caps and/or marginal
> capacitor voltage ratings.
>
> Duz anyone have a clue as to what is causing this problem? I haven't
> had time to probe the board for power supply bus noise or excessive
> current quite yet. What I could use is some speculation as to the
> probable culprit.
>
Try using Low ESR caps in that circuit... Most switching signals need
caps with virtually no R in them.. Otherwise, they'll heat up in side
a bit and vent, or partially get there.

Jamie

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:43 pm
From: who where

On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 16:42:44 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>Another day in bad caps hell. I fish a Dell GX520 out of the pile at
>the local recycler and proceed to try and raise the dead. I've done
>this many times with good success, but not this time. Upon initial
>inspection, I find the usual bulging electrolytic caps. There were 4
>identical caps, 2200uF 6.3VDC 105C. I replace them with 2200uF 10VDC
>105C caps (Panasonic ECA-1AHG222). Note the increase in working
>voltage. These are brand new caps from Digikey. I run the unit
>overnight and find that two of the caps now have bulging tops.
(snip)

>Duz anyone have a clue as to what is causing this problem? I haven't
>had time to probe the board for power supply bus noise or excessive
>current quite yet. What I could use is some speculation as to the
>probable culprit.

Jeff, I've been reading your posts long enough to conclude you know
what you're doing, generally in spades.

But ... did you check the polarity? I ask that because there are
cases where the PCB screen legend was arse-about, causing grief to
cap-replacers who didn't record the "outgoing" cap polarity and match
that against the screening.

Otherwise, if heating isn't an issue then what WW said is a
possibility.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:47 pm
From: who where

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 09:43:24 +0800, who where <noone@home.net> wrote:

>Otherwise, if heating isn't an issue then what WW said is a
>possibility.

Typo alert! Would you believe "what WS said"?

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:44 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeff Liebermann"

> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GX520-bad-caps.jpg>
>
> The two large black caps in the foreground are the surviving 105C
> caps, while the blue caps in the background, are the bulging 85C caps.

** Errr - I hate to tell you this pal ........

but the pic shows all 4 caps installed with reverse polarity.

A smaller cap ( C310) is clearly installed correctly and so are all the
others I can see.

The markings on the PCB are a bit unusual with the white triangle indicating
positive.

.... Phil

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 6:00 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:8sls4jFn6iU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Jeff Liebermann"
>
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GX520-bad-caps.jpg>
>>
>> The two large black caps in the foreground are the surviving 105C
>> caps, while the blue caps in the background, are the bulging 85C caps.
>
>
> ** Errr - I hate to tell you this pal ........
>
> but the pic shows all 4 caps installed with reverse polarity.
>
> A smaller cap ( C310) is clearly installed correctly and so are all the
> others I can see.
>
> The markings on the PCB are a bit unusual with the white triangle
> indicating positive.
>
>
>
> .... Phil
>
>

I think that triangle is actually a "+" sign, and if so, I agree

Arfa

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 6:05 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Arfa Daily"
> "Phil Allison"
>
> "Jeff Liebermann"
>>
>>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GX520-bad-caps.jpg>
>>>
>>> The two large black caps in the foreground are the surviving 105C
>>> caps, while the blue caps in the background, are the bulging 85C caps.
>>
>>
>> ** Errr - I hate to tell you this pal ........
>>
>> but the pic shows all 4 caps installed with reverse polarity.
>>
>> A smaller cap ( C310) is clearly installed correctly and so are all the
>> others I can see.
>>
>> The markings on the PCB are a bit unusual with the white triangle
>> indicating positive.
>
>
> I think that triangle is actually a "+" sign, and if so, I agree
>

** I see a white circle outlining each electro, then a solid white
triangle making a chord across the same circle plus a large white "+" sign
right next to the triangle.

The bulging electros are in all in backwards .....

..... Phil

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 6:27 pm
From: "tm"

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:0e9bm6h2ikhm2pfmdr0ubgbl9ituco944l@4ax.com...
> Another day in bad caps hell. I fish a Dell GX520 out of the pile at
> the local recycler and proceed to try and raise the dead. I've done
> this many times with good success, but not this time. Upon initial
> inspection, I find the usual bulging electrolytic caps. There were 4
> identical caps, 2200uF 6.3VDC 105C. I replace them with 2200uF 10VDC
> 105C caps (Panasonic ECA-1AHG222). Note the increase in working
> voltage. These are brand new caps from Digikey. I run the unit
> overnight and find that two of the caps now have bulging tops.
>
> Assuming that I may have had some marginal caps in the bag (unlikely
> but worth testing), I replace the two that bulged with 2200uF 10v 85C
> caps (Panasonic ECA-1AM222) also from Digikey. This is somewhat of a
> downgrade, but should work. I also replace the power supply, for no
> better reason than I had a spare.
>
> Same problem as before. The two caps blew their tops within a few
> hours, leaking caustic goo.
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GX520-bad-caps.jpg>
> The two large black caps in the foreground are the surviving 105C
> caps, while the blue caps in the background, are the bulging 85C caps.
>
> Using my finger and a thermocouple thermometer, I determined that the
> bulging caps are not getting warm or at least are not any warmer than
> other nearby components.
>
> I've replace literally hundreds of caps but I've never seen this
> before. It really makes me wonder if the bad caps problem might be
> caused by something other than defective caps and/or marginal
> capacitor voltage ratings.
>
> Duz anyone have a clue as to what is causing this problem? I haven't
> had time to probe the board for power supply bus noise or excessive
> current quite yet. What I could use is some speculation as to the
> probable culprit.
>
> --

The caps are in backwards.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 7:41 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:44:58 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>"Jeff Liebermann"
>
>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GX520-bad-caps.jpg>
>>
>> The two large black caps in the foreground are the surviving 105C
>> caps, while the blue caps in the background, are the bulging 85C caps.

>** Errr - I hate to tell you this pal ........
>
>but the pic shows all 4 caps installed with reverse polarity.
>
>A smaller cap ( C310) is clearly installed correctly and so are all the
>others I can see.
>
>The markings on the PCB are a bit unusual with the white triangle indicating
>positive.
>
>.... Phil

AAAAAAARGH! I can't believe I did that. I usually assume that the
silk screened marker was matches the negative stripe on the
electrolytics. Very embarrassing.

Thanks for catching my mistake (as I crawl back into my hole and
sulk).

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 10:46 pm
From: "circuit"

Whats the problem? It all fits into the URL:

http://www.LearnByDestroying.com

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:rfkbm6hkov35ue2vbdnn8c1im1bju99vk4@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:44:58 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>"Jeff Liebermann"
>>
>>> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/GX520-bad-caps.jpg>
>>>
>>> The two large black caps in the foreground are the surviving 105C
>>> caps, while the blue caps in the background, are the bulging 85C caps.
>
>>** Errr - I hate to tell you this pal ........
>>
>>but the pic shows all 4 caps installed with reverse polarity.
>>
>>A smaller cap ( C310) is clearly installed correctly and so are all the
>>others I can see.
>>
>>The markings on the PCB are a bit unusual with the white triangle
>>indicating
>>positive.
>>
>>.... Phil
>
> AAAAAAARGH! I can't believe I did that. I usually assume that the
> silk screened marker was matches the negative stripe on the
> electrolytics. Very embarrassing.
>
> Thanks for catching my mistake (as I crawl back into my hole and
> sulk).
>
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558
> # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 10:53 pm
From: "circuit"

Maybe not very commonly known anymore, but its always been a standard design
practice through the decades, when a board is built, that all the polarities
of electrolytic caps face the same direction. Have seen a few cases the last
couple of years where this is NOT followed though.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: problems with my Adcom CD player
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d0309f8834e2db93?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 5:42 pm
From: "Shaun"

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ijvrhs$oe5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:msF8p.28752$Xf4.24541@newsfe13.ams2...
>>
>>
>> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:ijtmjf$g22$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > Shaun <rowl@nomail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:yOh8p.17738$D94.1575@newsfe20.iad...
>> >>
>> >> "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:4673m6prr0ls8tlmj1kaaa2rid3sbapos7@4ax.com...
>> >> > On Sun, 20 Feb 2011 14:13:20 -0600, "Shaun" <rowl@nomail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>I have a used ADCOM GCD-700 5 disk CD player that was given to me
>> >> >>and
>> >> >>it
>> >> >>is
>> >> >>overly sensitive to vibrations, bumps and slight scratches on the
> CDs.
>> >> >>I've
>> >> >>mounted it on vibration absorbing rubber and this has greatly
>> >> >>impoved
>> > its
>> >> >>bump and vibration sensitivity, but it is still very sensitive to
>> >> >>the
>> >> >>slightest mark or scratch on cds. How can I cure this.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > First, clean out any crud from the laser head assembly. If that
>> >> > doesn't improve things, replace it. That's a 1997 vintage machine
>> >> > so
>> >> > parts may be tricky to find... Oh, too easy:
>> >> > <http://www.adcomparts.com/part.php?item=46001400>
>> >> > However, I don't think it's worth $50 to fix something that old.
>> >> >
>> >> > More:
>> >> >
> <http://www.fixya.com/support/p134391-adcom_gcd_700_5_disc_cd_changer>
>> >> >
> <http://www.fixya.com/support/t648590-adcom_gcd_700_tracking_problems>
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
>> >> > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> >> > Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
>> >> > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for the links, I'll probably order a new laser head for it, but
>> > first
>> >> I'll lake it apart and clean the lenses.
>> >>
>> >> Shaun
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Then after cleaning and before ditching. Find the "power pot" ,measure
>> > resistance with a DVM , "both ways" in case of a difference, so you can
>> > get
>> > back to that value. Change the value , no more than 5 percent, to see
>> > if
>> > it
>> > improves error proneness
>> >
>>
>> It's not quite that straightforward on a '240, as there are three pots on
>> there, and considerable interaction between them. I would not recommend
>> touching them, as at least one of them is *extremely* critical in its
>> setting to get the thing to play at all.
>>
>> Arfa
>>
>
>
> Which implies 3 analoguey things that could drift over time. I would take
> 3x
> 0.1 percent measurements and tabulate some twiddlings v drop-out time of a
> known bad ie deliberately scratched track on a CD. As last legs anyway,
> nothing to loose except a bit of time
>
>

I'm sure I can find a few CDs that are scratched in my collection.

shaun

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pioneer PD-M610 6cd player service manual
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fa0608d06708250e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 6:03 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4d65abb3$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:
>> F Murtz<haggisz@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Pioneer PD-M600 changer. Presents disc but does not spin up then the
>>> same thing happens with each disc.
>>> Anyone any clues or where to get service manual, preferably free.
>>
>> Bad flex cable, dropped lens, dirty spindle motor, decayed rubber
>> grommets,
>> etc.
>>
> Motor does not attempt to start spinning,Have not checked for voltage at
> spindle motor yet, just had quick look so far.
> Would feel happier with schematic but the only ones I can find want money
> and I am a bit wary of paying for a pig in a poke.

All that Sam said seconded. Have you checked that the lens is still in place
? Very common for it to come out and be rolling round in the bottom of the
player somewhere ...

Arfa

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 23 2011 7:05 pm
From: sam@repairfaq.org (Samuel M. Goldwasser)

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> writes:

> "F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4d65abb3$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> > Samuel M. Goldwasser wrote:
> >> F Murtz<haggisz@hotmail.com> writes:
> >>
> >>> Pioneer PD-M600 changer. Presents disc but does not spin up then the
> >>> same thing happens with each disc.
> >>> Anyone any clues or where to get service manual, preferably free.
> >>
> >> Bad flex cable, dropped lens, dirty spindle motor, decayed rubber
> >> grommets,
> >> etc.
> >>
> > Motor does not attempt to start spinning,Have not checked for
> > voltage at spindle motor yet, just had quick look so far.
> > Would feel happier with schematic but the only ones I can find want
> > money and I am a bit wary of paying for a pig in a poke.
>
> All that Sam said seconded. Have you checked that the lens is still in
> place ? Very common for it to come out and be rolling round in the
> bottom of the player somewhere ...

And despite the incredible precision involved in the optical pickup,
gently pushing the lens back in place and securing it with a couple
drops of 5 minute Epoxy often works! DON'T use Superglue! :( :)

--
sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unidentified connector type
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1b97e6c49da959fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 24 2011 12:31 am
From: "N_Cook"

Samuel M. Goldwasser <sam@repairfaq.org> wrote in message
news:uhbbumlo7.fsf@repairfaq.org...
> Please see:
>
> http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu/Misc/conn-h.jpg
> http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu/Misc/conn-p.jpg
>
> These are 0.1" spaced and sort of compatible with the common AMP/Molex
> headers/housings but not quite identical. Please don't do an extensive
> search, but if you recognize the manufacturer/type, please reply here.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
> Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
> +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
> | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
>
> Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above
is
> ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included
in the
> subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

So what is the difference to Harwin/ Molex etc? other than the bulky looking
upright section of the pins half. Width of pins different to the usual? Is
there a retention lug on the unseen mating surface of the p pic that locks
into the recess pit in the h pic?

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