sci.electronics.repair - 18 new messages in 11 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Boss TU-120 Electronic Tuner Schematic Roland LED Strobe Guitar Tuning
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9beb1a7b35ce5c6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 12:20 am
From: "N_Cook"

If the 880.0 contains a miniature tuning fork, like those watches of the
early 70s that hummed to themselves. Corrossion to the forks over decades
would lower the frequency

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 4:28 am
From: "N_Cook"

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Jp_bp.678852$Bh.130692@en-nntp-12.dc1.easynews.com...
> I have an older Boss TU120 tuner (maybe 1979) that seems to need
adjustment
> repaired, but have been unable to locate a schematic or service manual.
>
> The output frequency at the Monitor jack, appears to be incorrect for the
> internal Calibrate settings, and when checked with a reliable counter
> (SC3100 AutoTracker readout) the freq is about 432Hz, when I think it
should
> be adjustable to over 440Hz.
>
> I was about to ask Roland Support when I saw that they require registered
> user identity sign-in/account to be established before asking a question.
>
> I have the operating instructions, and it describes the pot adjustment for
> the internal Calibrate steps, as something like "adjust the front panel
Cal
> (pot) until the drifting stops, and the LEDs appear to be stopped/remain
> stationary".
>
> The point of rotation where the front panel Cal pot gets the LEDs to stop
> drifting is all the way to the end stop of the rotation, so I can't find
the
> mid position between scroll left/scroll right.. and the freq is about
432Hz,
> not 440, when I assume that it should be able to adjust from below 440 to
> over 440Hz as the Calibrate pot is adjusted.
>
> The Calibrate output freq is independent of the 12-position Note Selector
> switch.
>
> I marked the 2 internal PC mount pots before twiddling them, but the freq
> doesn't get to 440Hz.
> After tweaking, I can see 129Hz For "C", not 130.81..(possibly just a
> counter accuracy tolerance issue) but 242Hz for "B", not 246.9Hz.
>
> I believe the tuning reference freq is from a 3-terminal component marked
> Iwata 880.0 T (3 '79 Japan) with a tuning fork symbol on it.
>
> I'm operating at a musically impaired level here, as I've only recently
> become interested in learning to play guitar, and I don't fully comprehend
a
> lot of how actual frequencies relate to notes, other than the harmonics.
>
> I have a functionig Boss TU-12 Chromatic tuner, so I don't really need the
> older tuner, but I'd like to know if I can get it to work properly, since
it
> does have a strobing display that easier to see at a distance, moreso than
> the-needs-to-be-positioned-closely TU-12's meter pointer.
>
> I'd also like to lower the non-adjustable speaker volume too, perhaps
later.
>
> I don't think installing a 0-6 volume knob would be a solution.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> WB
> .............
>
>

I would guess you have an 880Hz version of the 360Hz elements in these
watches
http://members.shaw.ca/abts/218_technical.htm
then corrossion over the decades slowing the frequency of the fork. There is
probably some range limiting resistors to the Cal pot. You could probably
get away with changing one/both of them a bit to change the capture range,

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 8:24 am
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 04 Mar 2011 00:04:30 -0500, Wild_Bill wrote:

> I have an older Boss TU120 tuner (maybe 1979) that seems to need
> adjustment repaired, but have been unable to locate a schematic or
> service manual.
>
> The output frequency at the Monitor jack, appears to be incorrect for
> the internal Calibrate settings, and when checked with a reliable
> counter (SC3100 AutoTracker readout) the freq is about 432Hz, when I
> think it should be adjustable to over 440Hz.
>
> I was about to ask Roland Support when I saw that they require
> registered user identity sign-in/account to be established before asking
> a question.
>
> I have the operating instructions, and it describes the pot adjustment
> for the internal Calibrate steps, as something like "adjust the front
> panel Cal (pot) until the drifting stops, and the LEDs appear to be
> stopped/remain stationary".
>
> The point of rotation where the front panel Cal pot gets the LEDs to
> stop drifting is all the way to the end stop of the rotation, so I can't
> find the mid position between scroll left/scroll right.. and the freq is
> about 432Hz, not 440, when I assume that it should be able to adjust
> from below 440 to over 440Hz as the Calibrate pot is adjusted.
>
> The Calibrate output freq is independent of the 12-position Note
> Selector switch.
>
> I marked the 2 internal PC mount pots before twiddling them, but the
> freq doesn't get to 440Hz.
> After tweaking, I can see 129Hz For "C", not 130.81..(possibly just a
> counter accuracy tolerance issue) but 242Hz for "B", not 246.9Hz.
>
> I believe the tuning reference freq is from a 3-terminal component
> marked Iwata 880.0 T (3 '79 Japan) with a tuning fork symbol on it.
>
> I'm operating at a musically impaired level here, as I've only recently
> become interested in learning to play guitar, and I don't fully
> comprehend a lot of how actual frequencies relate to notes, other than
> the harmonics.
>
> I have a functionig Boss TU-12 Chromatic tuner, so I don't really need
> the older tuner, but I'd like to know if I can get it to work properly,
> since it does have a strobing display that easier to see at a distance,
> moreso than the-needs-to-be-positioned-closely TU-12's meter pointer.
>
> I'd also like to lower the non-adjustable speaker volume too, perhaps
> later.
>
> I don't think installing a 0-6 volume knob would be a solution.

http://guitartunerguide.com/

If you need brushing up on the theory. Closest I have is a TU-15. If it's
layout is similar I could give you some freq readings for reference.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 3:54 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

The TU-120 model (old one with strobing LEDs) has a fairly straightforward
user control panel and selectors, and the basic instructions on the bottom
label.

http://www.bossarea.com/other/tu120.asp

If the tuner had had been able to adjust the Calibrate setup to 440Hz at the
Monitor output, I would've assumed that it was probably operating normally.

I suspect that the oscillator/tuning reference and/or other components have
drifted in value(s), especially since the thing is 30+ years old.

There are a few online manual sellers that list a service manual for the
TU-120 model, so I may end up going that route, or contact Roland support..
I just thought I'd check SER since several regulars are familiar with quite
a bit of musical gear.

The TU-60 model may be close, containing somewhat similar circuitry, and
about the same age, maybe Roland's first model.

http://www.bossarea.com/other/tu60.asp

The fairly current/more recent *TU-12* model is a completely different unit,
not surprisingly.. one SMT quad flat pack and a TV color burst 3.579..? MHz
crystal, but of course, numerous other components too (and I was able to
find an online schematic for the *TU-12* model).
I have this model, and it gets me tuned fairly accurately (using the
chromatic mode) according to a friend that's been playing a long time.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2011.03.04.16.24.06@lmao.lol.lol...
>
> http://guitartunerguide.com/
>
> If you need brushing up on the theory. Closest I have is a TU-15. If it's
> layout is similar I could give you some freq readings for reference.
>
>
> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 4:12 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> The fairly current/more recent *TU-12* model is a completely
> different unit, not surprisingly... one SMT quad flat pack and
> a TV color burst 3.579...? MHz.

3.579545 MHz. That number should be burned into the brain of anyone (in the
US or Japan, plus some Central and South American countries) who services
electronic equipment.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 4:39 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

Thanks Nigel.. I believe that you're correct, and that even oxidation of a
mechanical tuning fork-type device would likely upset it's characteristics..
detune it.

I didn't think to feel the 880Hz component to see if it was actually
vibrating while I had it apart, but maybe it does.

The 3-terminal gizmo is maybe 8x12mm with maybe a 10mm height (metric, how's
that? heh). The thing is marked Iwata Japan, and a symbol (((Y))) except the
Y looks like a tuning fork.. I just assumed it was a ceramic resonator or
something similar.
If it hadn't been marked 880, I wouldn't have thought it had any direct
relation to the 440Hz that is supposed to be the Cal pitch/note? frequency.

The front panel pot (far right end of front) for the user to set during the
Cal setup is about as physically far from the 880 gizmo as it can get.

http://www.bossarea.com/other/tu120.asp

My days of drawing even partial schematics are essentially over.. I used to
do that stuff when I was driven by ambition and inspired by satisfying
curiousity.. but anymore, it just eats up countless hours, so I generally
avoid it.

I checked the values of a few items near the I/O jacks in case they'd been
subjected to a misplaced voltage source or similar mistake/external
equipment fault, but that was the extent of actual checking anything other
than reading the output freq.

I recall that the 880 gizmo was at one end (by the rotary selector) and the
right end appeared to be a combination of I/O jacks, audio circuit for the
speaker (faces up thru the top grille) and an area of ICs which seem tied to
the circuit that operates the strobing LEDs (which don't actually strobe,
but light in sequential groups of 2-3 which will appear to drift left or
right, but stop drifting when the note is accurate).

BTW, there is a front panel mic (beside the front pot) for picking up
various instrument sounds, or an electronic signal can be input into the
unit (electric guitar cable, etc).

I suspect that the 30+ year old components' values have drifted, and a
schematic or service manual would be the most practical approach for me.

As I mentioned, I have a tuner that works, but the older TU-120 appears as
though it would be handy to use.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ikq7eq$4g1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> If the 880.0 contains a miniature tuning fork, like those watches of the
> early 70s that hummed to themselves. Corrossion to the forks over decades
> would lower the frequency
>
>

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 12:27 am
From: "N_Cook"

Wild_Bill <wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:EDfcp.280508$Mg5.243376@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
> Thanks Nigel.. I believe that you're correct, and that even oxidation of a
> mechanical tuning fork-type device would likely upset it's
characteristics..
> detune it.
>
> I didn't think to feel the 880Hz component to see if it was actually
> vibrating while I had it apart, but maybe it does.
>
> The 3-terminal gizmo is maybe 8x12mm with maybe a 10mm height (metric,
how's
> that? heh). The thing is marked Iwata Japan, and a symbol (((Y))) except
the
> Y looks like a tuning fork.. I just assumed it was a ceramic resonator or
> something similar.
> If it hadn't been marked 880, I wouldn't have thought it had any direct
> relation to the 440Hz that is supposed to be the Cal pitch/note?
frequency.
>
> The front panel pot (far right end of front) for the user to set during
the
> Cal setup is about as physically far from the 880 gizmo as it can get.
>
> http://www.bossarea.com/other/tu120.asp
>
> My days of drawing even partial schematics are essentially over.. I used
to
> do that stuff when I was driven by ambition and inspired by satisfying
> curiousity.. but anymore, it just eats up countless hours, so I generally
> avoid it.
>
> I checked the values of a few items near the I/O jacks in case they'd been
> subjected to a misplaced voltage source or similar mistake/external
> equipment fault, but that was the extent of actual checking anything other
> than reading the output freq.
>
> I recall that the 880 gizmo was at one end (by the rotary selector) and
the
> right end appeared to be a combination of I/O jacks, audio circuit for the
> speaker (faces up thru the top grille) and an area of ICs which seem tied
to
> the circuit that operates the strobing LEDs (which don't actually strobe,
> but light in sequential groups of 2-3 which will appear to drift left or
> right, but stop drifting when the note is accurate).
>
> BTW, there is a front panel mic (beside the front pot) for picking up
> various instrument sounds, or an electronic signal can be input into the
> unit (electric guitar cable, etc).
>
> I suspect that the 30+ year old components' values have drifted, and a
> schematic or service manual would be the most practical approach for me.
>
> As I mentioned, I have a tuner that works, but the older TU-120 appears as
> though it would be handy to use.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> WB
> .............
>
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ikq7eq$4g1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > If the 880.0 contains a miniature tuning fork, like those watches of the
> > early 70s that hummed to themselves. Corrossion to the forks over
decades
> > would lower the frequency
> >
> >
>

Even so-called Standard Kilograms gain something like 1 microgram per year
in very carefully controlled environments
Holding a guitar tuner to your ear is not normal practise
A Mr Iwata was publishing audio technical papers in the 1990s , the same
person ?

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 5 2011 12:31 am
From: "N_Cook"

William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ikrv6k$ud3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > The fairly current/more recent *TU-12* model is a completely
> > different unit, not surprisingly... one SMT quad flat pack and
> > a TV color burst 3.579...? MHz.
>
> 3.579545 MHz. That number should be burned into the brain of anyone (in
the
> US or Japan, plus some Central and South American countries) who services
> electronic equipment.
>
>

I still remember 0.4971 and its significance

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New updates about computers
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/76155ea8f31f467a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 2:27 am
From: rajeshbabu

www.alaboutcomputers.blogspot.com in this link you find under
counter and also under the post also under feedjit

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Search EPROM 1Mb
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4f66850731909742?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 3:33 am
From: "Andry"

Hello to everyone,

I'm searching for some ST M27C1001-20XFI or similar (32pin, 1Mbit, 128Kx8,
35ns)

I'm from Italy, please contact me to my (valid) mail.

Thank you!

Andrea

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Il messaggio � stato controllato da ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

www.nod32.it

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Comprehensive Test Banks and solution manuals
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/37be834026fba1c1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 6:19 am
From: SolutionPerson

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 4:02 pm
From: "Harvey Daye, Jr"

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Sitre Magana says meet him at the Post Office Monday morning at 10:00 AM.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 4:24 pm
From: Chris Bryant

and I turned around and saw some girls mother say why don't you stop
your crying. It sounded like Sitre Magana screaming when he was being
made fun of for beating off at the Post Office. I wonder that if Sitre
Magana's mother was there, she would say "Stop your beating off at the
Post Office?"

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 4:30 pm
From: Chris Bryant

jvalh wrote:
> Hello Experts,
>
> Recently a computer I have went belly up. I have removed the HD with the
> ribbon cable attached to it. Does anyone know of a connector that would
> connect the plug on that ribbon to a USB socket on the computer?
>
> Another Q: If the connection is made could a Windows installation on
> that HD be run on the computer?
>
> Could a SATA HD be used in the same way instead of the plain old HD?
>
> TIA and a great week to you all :-)

it sounds complicated. You'll have to bring your computer to the United
States Post Office, and have them put it in a box and mail it to me so I
can check it out. You should get there before Sitre Magana and his ugly
girlfriend Dori arrive unless you want to be holding a computer in one
arm while covering your eyes with the other arm while Sitre Magana is
behind his ugly girlfriend Dori pounding his pud in front of you at the
Post Office.

When I'm done with that PC I will put it in it's box and send it back to
you, possibly use the UPS store so I don't have to take a chance of
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 4 2011 4:35 pm
From: catpandaddy

mm wrote:
> OT
>
> The phone books have been getting smaller. With the yellow pages, I
> figure most places are still in business but they have moved their
> advertising elsewhere.
>
> But with the white pages, I'm not so sure. The new book is 1/3
> smaller than the book 1 or 2 years ago. If they've just made their
> numbers unpublished, I want to keep the book so I will still have
> their numbers. But if they've abandoned their wired phones for cell
> phones, there is no point to keeping the book.
>
> Why is the White Pages 1/3 shorter than it was? How much is
> unpublished and how much is just gone?
>
> Thank you.
>

There are other ways of finding somebody other than the fone book. For
example, if you want to get in touch with Sitre Magana, you don't need a
fone book, just go to the Post Office and look for the fat ass in the
wheelchair who is pounding his pud while staring at an ugly chick in
front of him who he thinks is his girlfriend Dori.

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