sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Connect TV audio output to old stereo amp - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f9517efe346c55f4?hl=en
* Pioneer SX-8 - 10 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3cc8638d000a2ca9?hl=en
* Sony XR C5300R car radio - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/07d1220935688803?hl=en
* Test Li Ion Batteries? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7f8288ba4f888f5c?hl=en
* OT: what's the best value HD Monitor for Satellite TV System - 4 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b902f28d606c6490?hl=en
* Ping Jim Yanik re: Tek 365 - 5 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/497ec2bbc743f501?hl=en
* best TV Monitor? 2nd attempt - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/71a0a5faa2c038da?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Connect TV audio output to old stereo amp
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f9517efe346c55f4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 1:44 am
From: Harry Hamilton

On Jul 24, 7:15 am, Al Moodie <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Not sure if this is the correct forum, but it is the only one I am
> familiar with.
>
> I have an old audio system, Technics SU 8022 stereo amp attached to
> large quaulity technics speakers, works fine.
> Have a Sony Bravia LCD TV which has an audio output socket which I use
> for headphones occasionally.
> Does it make sense to attempt to connect the TV's audio output to the
> Technics amp to get better sound quality.
>
> Sony TV Audio out:
> 500mVrms (100% modulation)
> More than 1 Vrms at max volume setting
> Impedance 47k ohms
>
> Technics amp input:
> Phono 2.5mV 47k ohm
> Aux 150mV 27k ohm
>
> I assume I will need some kind of voltage/impedance matching between
> the two units.
>
> Al Moodie.

Do you know if your Sony Bravia TV has Audio OUtput (RCA) jacks in the
back?

I don't know about your particular Sony model, but on the Wega that I
used to own, but traded in there was a setting in the menu for

[1] Speakers On - RCA outout off
[2] Speakers Off - Fixed Audio Output RCA jacks
[3] Speakers Off - Variable Audio Output to the RCA jacks

If you have a similar setup on your Sony, you can use the Variable
Audio Output to use the TV remote to control the volume going to the
amplifier.

You would hook up the output from the TV to the AUX on the back on the
amplifer, never use the Phono input for anything other than a
turntable.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pioneer SX-8
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3cc8638d000a2ca9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 3:38 am
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
news:j5mdndbY58Q3Fq7TnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
> Unit has a jumper connecting preamp to amp. Signal injected to power amp
> is perfect. Not the power stage after all.
>
> Preamp seems to respond, balance, volumne, mute circuit wise but output
> must be severely reduced.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
> news:Ju2dnWMxl-aB567TnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>> Digging a little deeper, I can see a relay on the power amp board. I
>> assume this is part of the output protection circuit. If this were the
>> issue, would I have any sound at all? Sound is present, just extremely
>> low. I haven't yet checked voltages. [Not a switching mode PS - large,
>> very heavy transformer circuit.]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
>> news:5NmdnbDP9bId-q7TnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>>> Not shorted. :)
>>> I thought of that and attached different speakers and same result.
>>> Sound comes out of both speakers, balance controls function, mute button
>>> drops volumne as it should.
>>> Output meter and audible output simply dropped to marginal. [Vol on max
>>> should be overpoweringly loud, it is now a whisper.]
>>> Both channels equally effected.
>>> There are perhaps 6 fuses. I removed and reset just in case they were
>>> oxidized. No joy.
>>> Other suggestions welcomed.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:prestwhich-ADF58E.18111129072011@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> In article <48qdnVyu_aVeyq7TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@powerusenet.com>,
>>>> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've owned this receiver/amp for 30 years. Used infrequently but
>>>>> functioned
>>>>> fine. Today, while playing a CD, suddenly stopped after 5 minutes on
>>>>> low
>>>>> setting. Toggled to mute, loudness, no joy. Using FM input, controls
>>>>> seem
>>>>> to work and I can hear music when I reach very high settings.
>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>> crackles to very loud but only momentary. I think pre-amp is OK.
>>>>> I'm thinking some sort of protective output circuit has activated but
>>>>> I have
>>>>> no schematic. Before I tear in blindly, does anyone have access to a
>>>>> schematic for this [I found a source on rapidshare but file no longer
>>>>> there].
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Speaker wires shorted?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Make sure the tape monitor button is not engaged. TURN THE VOLUME DOWN prior
to pressing this button. Also, it wouldn't hurt to try pressing and
manipulating the various controls to see if any of them might be cutting
out.

Mark Z.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 9:39 am
From: "John Keiser"

Tape monitor toggles as expected.
Not the problem.
Still output remains low.

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@labolgcbs.net> wrote in message
news:4e33df0b$0$21936$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com...
> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
> news:j5mdndbY58Q3Fq7TnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>> Unit has a jumper connecting preamp to amp. Signal injected to power amp
>> is perfect. Not the power stage after all.
>>
>> Preamp seems to respond, balance, volumne, mute circuit wise but output
>> must be severely reduced.
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
>> news:Ju2dnWMxl-aB567TnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>>> Digging a little deeper, I can see a relay on the power amp board. I
>>> assume this is part of the output protection circuit. If this were the
>>> issue, would I have any sound at all? Sound is present, just extremely
>>> low. I haven't yet checked voltages. [Not a switching mode PS - large,
>>> very heavy transformer circuit.]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
>>> news:5NmdnbDP9bId-q7TnZ2dnUVZ_oednZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>>>> Not shorted. :)
>>>> I thought of that and attached different speakers and same result.
>>>> Sound comes out of both speakers, balance controls function, mute
>>>> button drops volumne as it should.
>>>> Output meter and audible output simply dropped to marginal. [Vol on
>>>> max should be overpoweringly loud, it is now a whisper.]
>>>> Both channels equally effected.
>>>> There are perhaps 6 fuses. I removed and reset just in case they were
>>>> oxidized. No joy.
>>>> Other suggestions welcomed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:prestwhich-ADF58E.18111129072011@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> In article <48qdnVyu_aVeyq7TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@powerusenet.com>,
>>>>> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've owned this receiver/amp for 30 years. Used infrequently but
>>>>>> functioned
>>>>>> fine. Today, while playing a CD, suddenly stopped after 5 minutes on
>>>>>> low
>>>>>> setting. Toggled to mute, loudness, no joy. Using FM input,
>>>>>> controls seem
>>>>>> to work and I can hear music when I reach very high settings.
>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>> crackles to very loud but only momentary. I think pre-amp is OK.
>>>>>> I'm thinking some sort of protective output circuit has activated but
>>>>>> I have
>>>>>> no schematic. Before I tear in blindly, does anyone have access to a
>>>>>> schematic for this [I found a source on rapidshare but file no longer
>>>>>> there].
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaker wires shorted?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Make sure the tape monitor button is not engaged. TURN THE VOLUME DOWN
> prior to pressing this button. Also, it wouldn't hurt to try pressing and
> manipulating the various controls to see if any of them might be cutting
> out.
>
> Mark Z.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 10:23 am
From: "John Keiser"

Without a schematic I am fairly clueless.
PS voltages are 10, 18.75 and 57.75. Not sure if that's within specs. [A
different Pioneer SX model called for 65V.]
These PCboards are complete unmarked.
Digital vol control goes to "31". At "31" the digital output meter shows
maybe "1 watt" peak on a scale to 150. Very audible, but a fraction of what
it should be. I normally keep the vol @ "8".

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j10b9c$ben$1@dont-email.me...
> John Keiser <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
> news:48qdnVyu_aVeyq7TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>> I've owned this receiver/amp for 30 years. Used infrequently but
> functioned
>> fine. Today, while playing a CD, suddenly stopped after 5 minutes on low
>> setting. Toggled to mute, loudness, no joy. Using FM input, controls
> seem
>> to work and I can hear music when I reach very high settings. Sometimes
>> crackles to very loud but only momentary. I think pre-amp is OK.
>> I'm thinking some sort of protective output circuit has activated but I
> have
>> no schematic. Before I tear in blindly, does anyone have access to a
>> schematic for this [I found a source on rapidshare but file no longer
>> there].
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>
>
> If both channels affected then suggests protect cct. Test the voltages on
> any zeners associated with that cct , drifting with age, and altering the
> sense-window
>
>

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 2:02 pm
From: "N_Cook"

John Keiser <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
news:rOadnRuD9YiIo6nTnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
> Without a schematic I am fairly clueless.
> PS voltages are 10, 18.75 and 57.75. Not sure if that's within specs. [A
> different Pioneer SX model called for 65V.]
> These PCboards are complete unmarked.
> Digital vol control goes to "31". At "31" the digital output meter shows
> maybe "1 watt" peak on a scale to 150. Very audible, but a fraction of
what
> it should be. I normally keep the vol @ "8".
>
>
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:j10b9c$ben$1@dont-email.me...
> > John Keiser <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
> > news:48qdnVyu_aVeyq7TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
> >> I've owned this receiver/amp for 30 years. Used infrequently but
> > functioned
> >> fine. Today, while playing a CD, suddenly stopped after 5 minutes on
low
> >> setting. Toggled to mute, loudness, no joy. Using FM input, controls
> > seem
> >> to work and I can hear music when I reach very high settings.
Sometimes
> >> crackles to very loud but only momentary. I think pre-amp is OK.
> >> I'm thinking some sort of protective output circuit has activated but I
> > have
> >> no schematic. Before I tear in blindly, does anyone have access to a
> >> schematic for this [I found a source on rapidshare but file no longer
> >> there].
> >> Thank you.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > If both channels affected then suggests protect cct. Test the voltages
on
> > any zeners associated with that cct , drifting with age, and altering
the
> > sense-window
> >
> >
>
>

no -ve rail/s ?

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 2:05 pm
From: "John Keiser"

I now see that vol is almost mute with equalizer [bass and treble] controls
flat or neg.
With equalizer set to max, vol is useable @ perhaps 80% power.
Does that help pinpoint the problem?

"John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
news:48qdnVyu_aVeyq7TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
> I've owned this receiver/amp for 30 years. Used infrequently but
> functioned fine. Today, while playing a CD, suddenly stopped after 5
> minutes on low setting. Toggled to mute, loudness, no joy. Using FM
> input, controls seem to work and I can hear music when I reach very high
> settings. Sometimes crackles to very loud but only momentary. I think
> pre-amp is OK.
> I'm thinking some sort of protective output circuit has activated but I
> have no schematic. Before I tear in blindly, does anyone have access to a
> schematic for this [I found a source on rapidshare but file no longer
> there].
> Thank you.
>

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 5:19 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

Could you please not top post, John ? It makes it very difficult to see what
it is that you are replying to. The usenet convention is to bottom post.

Cheers

Arfa

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 5:52 pm
From: Sofa Slug

On 7/30/2011 10:23 AM, John Keiser wrote:
> Without a schematic I am fairly clueless.
> PS voltages are 10, 18.75 and 57.75. Not sure if that's within specs. [A
> different Pioneer SX model called for 65V.]
> These PCboards are complete unmarked.
> Digital vol control goes to "31". At "31" the digital output meter shows
> maybe "1 watt" peak on a scale to 150. Very audible, but a fraction of what
> it should be. I normally keep the vol @ "8".
>
>

Did you try here for the manual?:
<http://www.hifi-manuals.com/Download/Pioneer/SX-8-service-manual>

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 5:54 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
news:48qdnVyu_aVeyq7TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
> I've owned this receiver/amp for 30 years. Used infrequently but
> functioned fine. Today, while playing a CD, suddenly stopped after 5
> minutes on low setting. Toggled to mute, loudness, no joy. Using FM
> input, controls seem to work and I can hear music when I reach very high
> settings. Sometimes crackles to very loud but only momentary. I think
> pre-amp is OK.
> I'm thinking some sort of protective output circuit has activated but I
> have no schematic. Before I tear in blindly, does anyone have access to a
> schematic for this [I found a source on rapidshare but file no longer
> there].
> Thank you.
>

The service manual is available for free here

http://www.hifi-manuals.com/Pioneer

You need to create an account, but it costs nothing. Your problem sounds
possibly power supply related to me. Mr Cook quesried the fact that you do
not appear to be recording any low negative rails, and that would also be a
concern to me. If you look on the first schematic towards the top left of
the enclosed area marked "POWER SUPPLY CIRCUIT", you will see a pair of low
rails (+ / - 15 v ) marked

"( EQ.AMP TONE CONT. VCA IC) " The +15 v reg is a 3 terminal 78 series,
but the negative regulator is discrete, constructed around a pair of
transistors. I would suggest that it might be a good idea to check that
those rails are both present, and finding their way to the indicated bits of
circuitry. Now comes the tricky bit. The schematic, although a perfectly
complete and valid looking one, sadly has no component refs on it, which is
going to make finding those devices a bit more of a hunting trip, than would
otherwise be necessary. Strangely, however, the PCB overlay diagrams are
fully annotated ...

Arfa

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 7:04 pm
From: "John Keiser"

Perfect. I hadn't found that.
Thank you!

"Sofa Slug" <sofaslug@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:j12912$jdh$1@dont-email.me...
> On 7/30/2011 10:23 AM, John Keiser wrote:
>> Without a schematic I am fairly clueless.
>> PS voltages are 10, 18.75 and 57.75. Not sure if that's within specs.
>> [A
>> different Pioneer SX model called for 65V.]
>> These PCboards are complete unmarked.
>> Digital vol control goes to "31". At "31" the digital output meter shows
>> maybe "1 watt" peak on a scale to 150. Very audible, but a fraction of
>> what
>> it should be. I normally keep the vol @ "8".
>>
>>
>
> Did you try here for the manual?:
> <http://www.hifi-manuals.com/Download/Pioneer/SX-8-service-manual>

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 7:15 pm
From: "John Keiser"

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:lJ1Zp.16040$Zm3.3430@newsfe11.ams2...
>
>
> "John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
> news:48qdnVyu_aVeyq7TnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>> I've owned this receiver/amp for 30 years. Used infrequently but
>> functioned fine. Today, while playing a CD, suddenly stopped after 5
>> minutes on low setting. Toggled to mute, loudness, no joy. Using FM
>> input, controls seem to work and I can hear music when I reach very high
>> settings. Sometimes crackles to very loud but only momentary. I think
>> pre-amp is OK.
>> I'm thinking some sort of protective output circuit has activated but I
>> have no schematic. Before I tear in blindly, does anyone have access to
>> a schematic for this [I found a source on rapidshare but file no longer
>> there].
>> Thank you.
>>
>
> The service manual is available for free here
>
> http://www.hifi-manuals.com/Pioneer
>
> You need to create an account, but it costs nothing. Your problem sounds
> possibly power supply related to me. Mr Cook quesried the fact that you do
> not appear to be recording any low negative rails, and that would also be
> a concern to me. If you look on the first schematic towards the top left
> of the enclosed area marked "POWER SUPPLY CIRCUIT", you will see a pair of
> low rails (+ / - 15 v ) marked
>
> "( EQ.AMP TONE CONT. VCA IC) " The +15 v reg is a 3 terminal 78 series,
> but the negative regulator is discrete, constructed around a pair of
> transistors. I would suggest that it might be a good idea to check that
> those rails are both present, and finding their way to the indicated bits
> of circuitry. Now comes the tricky bit. The schematic, although a
> perfectly complete and valid looking one, sadly has no component refs on
> it, which is going to make finding those devices a bit more of a hunting
> trip, than would otherwise be necessary. Strangely, however, the PCB
> overlay diagrams are fully annotated ...
>
> Arfa

Sorry about top/bottom posting thing. Maybe this is on the bottom? I just
use OE to read, rarely post.

The schematic is complex but a big leg up.

Thank you all.

.
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sony XR C5300R car radio
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/07d1220935688803?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 3:42 am
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j0u2h7$kcd$1@dont-email.me...
> First of these looked as though a failure of the tuner block. Owner bought
> another one for spares, removable front display missing.
>
> This one has exactly the same fault symptom so more likely a problem with
> the front panel (or improbable same tuner fault on 2 separately acquired
> units).
> Tuner will go into auto strongest signal search and store in memory and
> also
> readout follows manual input of frequency and stores in memory but at no
> point does the audio come through to the output amp.
> Pressing the presets shows the frequencies but no audio. Injecting local
> modulated RF in there and audio is outputed and stays invariant on
> pressing
> any preset so stuck on one RF tuning setting. So not a false muting
> problem
>
> Some of the main chip SM solderings seemed suspect so redid the non LCD
> segment ones. Cleaned the 14 pin front to interior header plug. No stuck
> closed keys. It looks as though the front has been kneed at some point as
> the ring around the rotary encoder button is cracked but no pcb problems
> found.
> The LCD clock, CE and data lines between the 14 pin header and the 64 pin
> chip trace through. Not possible to scope anything on the board without
> making up a one-off extender cable.
> I'm assuming some data problem but what changes between sending data to
> and
> from the tuner to load the presets and normal listening mode?
> Schematics are out there for this model
>
>

Not totally out of the realm of possibility that the two could both have bad
front ends. Have you tried applying an external tuning voltage?

Mark Z.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 5:57 am
From: "N_Cook"

Mark Zacharias <mark_zacharias@labolgcbs.net> wrote in message
news:4e33e025$0$21949$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com...
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:j0u2h7$kcd$1@dont-email.me...
> > First of these looked as though a failure of the tuner block. Owner
bought
> > another one for spares, removable front display missing.
> >
> > This one has exactly the same fault symptom so more likely a problem
with
> > the front panel (or improbable same tuner fault on 2 separately acquired
> > units).
> > Tuner will go into auto strongest signal search and store in memory and
> > also
> > readout follows manual input of frequency and stores in memory but at no
> > point does the audio come through to the output amp.
> > Pressing the presets shows the frequencies but no audio. Injecting local
> > modulated RF in there and audio is outputed and stays invariant on
> > pressing
> > any preset so stuck on one RF tuning setting. So not a false muting
> > problem
> >
> > Some of the main chip SM solderings seemed suspect so redid the non LCD
> > segment ones. Cleaned the 14 pin front to interior header plug. No stuck
> > closed keys. It looks as though the front has been kneed at some point
as
> > the ring around the rotary encoder button is cracked but no pcb problems
> > found.
> > The LCD clock, CE and data lines between the 14 pin header and the 64
pin
> > chip trace through. Not possible to scope anything on the board without
> > making up a one-off extender cable.
> > I'm assuming some data problem but what changes between sending data to
> > and
> > from the tuner to load the presets and normal listening mode?
> > Schematics are out there for this model
> >
> >
>
> Not totally out of the realm of possibility that the two could both have
bad
> front ends. Have you tried applying an external tuning voltage?
>
> Mark Z.
>

I did with the original one and you can manually tune via a 10 turn pot to
change stations with audio emerging from the pa. No reason to assume any
different with this one but as awkward to get to I will leave as is

Another possible variable is battery B+ but there is good regulation . With
no key presses the micro-sourced voltage is between 4.81V and 4.83V with no
power output , and invariant with "battery" between 12V and 14V

Measuring the keyed voltages , K-0, for the front buttons, pulls down to
left buttons 1.14,.60,.03V
central 1.50,.81,.33,2.57,3.69 V
right 1.83, 3.37, 3.00 V
I wonder what the acceptance bands for each of the 11 functions is in the
look-up table. I will guess at 1/3 of an interval with 1/3 for gaps for
unplaced or perhaps error so about .1V out and problems can ensue.
Will have to see if those voltages agree with the resistance chain, not
simple correspondence nor necessarily linear intervals. Minimum gap is .81 -
.6 V which looks suspicious at this stage. K-1 is similar resistance change
system for the other more minor function 8 buttons, I suppose I had better
check those also

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Test Li Ion Batteries?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7f8288ba4f888f5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 8:47 am
From: KenO

Hi Jeff,

 "I keep a few on hand because some of the early Toshiblah laptops
would not run on charger power unless a battery (dead or otherwise)
was installed."  

I checked, the old Toshiba LT will run without a battery pack.

The airplane forum link mentioned fires with Lithium Polymer
Batteries <http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187>

Did some searching concerning fires with Lithium Ion batteries and
while found mention of this being caused by internal shorts
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2355814,00.asp , have not yet
found any mention of this happening to these old Toshiba Li Ion
batteries.

I did find a recall of newer Toshiba Li Ion packs (actually Sony Li
Ion cells) sold from April 2005 to October 2005
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09035.html

Do you know if the older Toshiba Li Ion packs used Sony Li Ion Cells?

Ken

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 9:17 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 08:47:09 -0700 (PDT), KenO <kenitholson@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Hi Jeff,
>
> "I keep a few on hand because some of the early Toshiblah laptops
>would not run on charger power unless a battery (dead or otherwise)
>was installed."  
>
>I checked, the old Toshiba LT will run without a battery pack.

OK, you win.

>The airplane forum link mentioned fires with Lithium Polymer
>Batteries <http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187>

There are YouTube videos, showing what happens when you pound a nail
into a LIPO battery. To the best of my knowledge, all battery packs
that have internal charge controllers include short circuit
protection. That doesn't help when metal chips inside the battery
cause the shorted battery condition. However, a 10-15 year old
battery is unlikely to store enough energy to do much damage.

>Did some searching concerning fires with Lithium Ion batteries and
>while found mention of this being caused by internal shorts
>http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2355814,00.asp , have not yet
>found any mention of this happening to these old Toshiba Li Ion
>batteries.

It didn't happen until Sony produced a large number of potentially
defective batteries. The actual number of defective cells was
probably rather small, but with the risk of fire or explosion, it was
necessary to recall millions of battery packs to find those few.

>I did find a recall of newer Toshiba Li Ion packs (actually Sony Li
>Ion cells) sold from April 2005 to October 2005
>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09035.html
>
>Do you know if the older Toshiba Li Ion packs used Sony Li Ion Cells?

The web page lists
Satellite: A70/A75, P30/P5, M30X/M35X, M50/M55
Tecra: A3, A5, S2
as the models affected. Is your laptop one of those?
(Hint: It helps to supply details of what you have to work with).

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 9:54 am
From: KenO

Hi Mike,

Thanks again for all your comments!

"Problem with lithiums is that they degrade whether you use 'em or
not."

Been trying to read everything I can find and came across " Recharging
when the battery hits 50% charge is the ideal to maximize its life."
http://madvapesfaq.com/knowledgebase.php?article=32 Does this
correspond to your experience?

Also have you determined what the Max and Min Voltage should be for
Toshiba PA2490U 10.8 V 3600mAh battery pack?

" I tried to use cells from a different good pack. It's a crap shoot
depending on the controller design. Some lose their brains when you
remove power and it's all over.
Others remember the previous capacity, so the new battery won't last
much longer than the old one. I've only found one battery pack with a
pic processor in it.
I managed to reset the pic and recovered it."

Have you posted these Li battery experiences any where? Would be
interested in learning more.

The only Sony Li cell test I have found is http://www.stensat.org/Docs/battery_test_results.pdf
and the cell seemed to have been more affected by prolonged deep
discharge than overcharge.

Ken

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: what's the best value HD Monitor for Satellite TV System
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b902f28d606c6490?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 10:43 am
From: Robert Macy

Looking for a good value TV monitor capable of HD

Goes on a fireplace mantle, or bolted to thw wall above the mantle
like at a sports bar

Like to be under $1,000, want color, lifetime, maintenance free.

What's the best value for the dollar?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 12:00 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

I would look first at Vizio, which represent terrific value for the money.
But I can't recommend a specific model. You'll have to look carefully
yourself.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 1:12 pm
From: PlainBill@yawhoo.com

On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:43:19 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote:

>Looking for a good value TV monitor capable of HD
>
>Goes on a fireplace mantle, or bolted to thw wall above the mantle
>like at a sports bar
>
>Like to be under $1,000, want color, lifetime, maintenance free.
>
>What's the best value for the dollar?
My first reaction was 'What a dummy'. Let's look at your
requirements.

1. Mounting above a fireplace. Unless it is a purely decorative
fireplace, that is a very bad place to mount a TV. Even if it is a
decorative fireplace, it may place the TV too high for comfortable
viewing.

2. Bolting to the wall. Virtually any flat panel TV larger than 15"
has 'hard points' to allow attaching mounting brackets.

3. Under $1000 - that excludes many TVs over 55", and most 3D TVs.

4. Color - It's virtually impossible to buy a large screen TV that
does not display colors, so I presume you mean color fidelity. That
suggests you want a plasma TV, definitely not an LED backlit LCD TV.

5. 'Lifetime' - do you mean reliability? The only way you will find a
TV that lasts a lifetime is if you get a contract to have someone kill
you when the TV fails.

6. Maintenance free - that's another pipe dream.

NOW if you combine 5 and 6 into 'Reputation for low failure rate', you
do have something reasonable.

First of all, stay away from the house brands sold by Best Buy; stay
away from the RCA, Westinghouse, Sylvania, Polaroid, Memorex, etc.
'Names' that are no longer being built by the companies that made them
famous. And stay away from the Emerson, Haier, Coby, etc that never
had a good reputation.

Second, I would suggest staying away from Vizio unless you buy it from
a company such as Costco, which adds a second year to the warranty and
has a 'no questions asked' return policy. Vizio's warranty repair
service usually requires you return the TV to thier service center at
your expense. And they have no factory authorized repair service once
the TV is out of warranty.

My suggestion is to buy a Panasonic 46" 1080P Plasma TV. Panasonic
plasma TVs have a reputation for better long term reliability than
Sony, Samsung, and LG, and for better color rendition than LCD.

PlainBill

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 5:39 pm
From: "(PeteCresswell)"

Per William Sommerwerck:
>I would look first at Vizio, which represent terrific value for the money.
>But I can't recommend a specific model. You'll have to look carefully
>yourself.

I got a Vizio bco the lower cost vs comparable devices
feature-wise.

That was about a year ago - and it's still working, but acting
funny - losing the sound when I change program sources. When it
does that, I have to select another program source and then
select the desired program source again and the sound comes back.

Also, their implementation of PIP (which was my "Must Have"
feature) leaves something to desired. If you have the TV in PIP
mode and then shut it down, it does not restore it's state
properly when started back up: it comes back in single-screen
mode tuned to whichever program source was in the front when it
shout down.

Likewise.... the implementation of what Vizio calls "Widgets" is
sloppy. Open up a Widget in PIP mode, and PIP mode goes away
never to return until you re-establish it manually.
--
PeteCresswell

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ping Jim Yanik re: Tek 365
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/497ec2bbc743f501?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 10:47 am
From: "Mark Zacharias"

Hey, Jim.

Long story short my 465 quit a while back. No trace at all, even with the
beam finder. I got tired of looking at it sitting there, and decided to poke
around and see if I got lucky. Well, I found a missing -8v line which, when
jumpered in, seems to restore normal function. That line draws about 600mA.
Cannot readily access the bridge rectifier CR1569 to remove and test out of
circuit - I suspect it is (partially) open.

Is this a common problem? Seem like I'm on the right track?

Thanks!

Mark Z.

--
"I can't die until the government finds a safe place to bury my liver."

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 10:48 am
From: "Mark Zacharias"

Dang. that should of course read Tek 465 in the subject line!!!

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@labolgcbs.net> wrote in message
news:4e34439c$0$21905$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com...
> Hey, Jim.
>
> Long story short my 465 quit a while back. No trace at all, even with the
> beam finder. I got tired of looking at it sitting there, and decided to
> poke around and see if I got lucky. Well, I found a missing -8v line
> which, when jumpered in, seems to restore normal function. That line draws
> about 600mA. Cannot readily access the bridge rectifier CR1569 to remove
> and test out of circuit - I suspect it is (partially) open.
>
> Is this a common problem? Seem like I'm on the right track?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark Z.
>
>
>
> --
> "I can't die until the government finds a safe place to bury my liver."

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 12:31 pm
From: Jim Yanik

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@labolgcbs.net> wrote in
news:4e34439c$0$21905$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com:

> Hey, Jim.
>
> Long story short my 465 quit a while back. No trace at all, even with
> the beam finder. I got tired of looking at it sitting there, and
> decided to poke around and see if I got lucky. Well, I found a missing
> -8v line which, when jumpered in, seems to restore normal function.
> That line draws about 600mA. Cannot readily access the bridge
> rectifier CR1569 to remove and test out of circuit - I suspect it is
> (partially) open.
>
> Is this a common problem? Seem like I'm on the right track?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark Z.
>
>
>

I had to replace many bridge rectifiers in the power supplies.
152-0488-00,IIRC,and 152-0462-00;the bigger bridges.

my shortcut;
flex the old bridge back and forth til the leads broke,then use a
soldersucker to remove the leads remaining in the holes.
then stand the new bridge off the board about 1/4 to 3/8" so you can solder
the leads without having to remove the MB. watch polarity!
I'd often bend the bridge leads 90deg then trim to length and solder into
the PCB,for case clearance,particularly on the big bridges.

another worry is filter caps leaking electrolyte and eating through PCB
traces on the back side of the mainboard. I used to have to do a lot of
big eyelet setting(for big filter caps) and track repairs;
One boss preferred to not replace PCB's if avoidable;he'd rather a tech put
in many hours filling in holes with epoxy,setting eyelets and track
repairs.

One note;some filter caps in the PS used the can (the 3 or 4 negative pins)
to connect parts of the circuit,IOW,you had to solder ALL the cap pads,or
if substituting an axial leaded cap(many customers would sub in any old cap
from their junkbox),bridge the can pads for continuity.

BTW,I figured you were talking about the 465,not a "365"(no such animal).
8-)
No problemo!

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 1:33 pm
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9F329E0E731B1jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44...
> "Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@labolgcbs.net> wrote in
> news:4e34439c$0$21905$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com:
>
>> Hey, Jim.
>>
>> Long story short my 465 quit a while back. No trace at all, even with
>> the beam finder. I got tired of looking at it sitting there, and
>> decided to poke around and see if I got lucky. Well, I found a missing
>> -8v line which, when jumpered in, seems to restore normal function.
>> That line draws about 600mA. Cannot readily access the bridge
>> rectifier CR1569 to remove and test out of circuit - I suspect it is
>> (partially) open.
>>
>> Is this a common problem? Seem like I'm on the right track?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Mark Z.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I had to replace many bridge rectifiers in the power supplies.
> 152-0488-00,IIRC,and 152-0462-00;the bigger bridges.
>
> my shortcut;
> flex the old bridge back and forth til the leads broke,then use a
> soldersucker to remove the leads remaining in the holes.
> then stand the new bridge off the board about 1/4 to 3/8" so you can
> solder
> the leads without having to remove the MB. watch polarity!
> I'd often bend the bridge leads 90deg then trim to length and solder into
> the PCB,for case clearance,particularly on the big bridges.
>
> another worry is filter caps leaking electrolyte and eating through PCB
> traces on the back side of the mainboard. I used to have to do a lot of
> big eyelet setting(for big filter caps) and track repairs;
> One boss preferred to not replace PCB's if avoidable;he'd rather a tech
> put
> in many hours filling in holes with epoxy,setting eyelets and track
> repairs.
>
> One note;some filter caps in the PS used the can (the 3 or 4 negative
> pins)
> to connect parts of the circuit,IOW,you had to solder ALL the cap pads,or
> if substituting an axial leaded cap(many customers would sub in any old
> cap
> from their junkbox),bridge the can pads for continuity.
>
> BTW,I figured you were talking about the 465,not a "365"(no such animal).
> 8-)
> No problemo!
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> localnet
> dot com

Thanks Jim. I figured you'd know what was up with these. That bridge is
nestled down pretty flush with the board; I might opt to just get the board
lifted up some for access, especially in view of the possibility of corroded
trace(s).

Thanks again!

Mark Z.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 30 2011 8:01 pm
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9F329E0E731B1jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44...
> "Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@labolgcbs.net> wrote in
> news:4e34439c$0$21905$a8266bb1@newsreader.readnews.com:
>
>> Hey, Jim.
>>

<snip>

>> Long story short my 465 quit a while back. No trace at all, even with
>>

<snip>

> No problemo!
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> localnet
> dot com

When the 465 failed for the second time I felt somewhat betrayed.

I developed this "theory" that Tek's were a lot like Harley Davidson
motorcycles...

If you love them, if you can fix them, and don't mind the oil stains on your
living room floor, go for it!

Otherwise get a B&K or something that just works. :-)

Mark Z.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: best TV Monitor? 2nd attempt
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/71a0a5faa2c038da?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 31 2011 7:53 am
From: Robert Macy

maybe the google 'window' is broken again, but didn't see my first
posting

what is the best ( less than $1,000) TV HD Monitor?

want value, great color, and low maintenance, which monitor meets this
criteria?

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