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Today's topics:

* OT Re: CFLs - retrofitting low ESR capacitors - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4b33f31f667954a0?hl=en
* Sony Bravia KLV-32BX320 Price in India - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/59f8727750b18260?hl=en

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TOPIC: OT Re: CFLs - retrofitting low ESR capacitors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4b33f31f667954a0?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 27 2011 10:50 pm
From: kreed

On Sep 28, 2:42 pm, "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> kreed wrote:
> > On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:28:58 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
> >> <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
> >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_variation>
> >>> It doesn't explain everything, but is a substantial part of the
> >>> puzzle.
> >>> <http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2006/brightness.shtml>
>
> >> NASA's Glory satellite was suppose to measure all this more
> >> accurately as the exact effect of variations in solar output isn't
> >> totally clear. However, the satellite failed to reach orbit.
> >> <http://glory.gsfc.nasa.gov/misison_details.html>
> >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glory_(satellite)>
>
> >> --
> >> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
> >> 150 Felker St #Dhttp://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> >> Santa Cruz CA 95060http://802.11junk.com
> >> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>
> > Also noted a news article a couple of weeks back where a NASA
> > scientist came out on record speaking of concerns that aliens might
> > attack us if we don't do something about man made global warming :).
>
> > They must be getting so desparate - like a cornered rat -  to trot
> > this rubbish out.
>
> > IIRC there were reports of "global warming" on mars also, no wonder
> > those martians want to come and kill us ! :)
>
> **Substituting lies and complete bullshit for a rational argument does not
> enhance your case (such as it is). You need to respond to my many questions
> and comments, rather that veering into fantasy-land.
>

I'm glad that you admitted that the fear of aliens attacking over
climate change is bullshit rather than rational argument, and proving
my point that NASA or at least the NASA scientist who made this
crackpot statement is speaking "lies, complete bullshit and veering
into fantasy-land"

Im glad we are in agreement on SOMETHING, Whew !!

> Hanging onto Jeff's coattails is not a reasonable response. Jeff has
> presented a cogent, rational argument, that deserves a reasoned response. He
> will receive one.
>

No, he gets a "reasoned response", as you fear that he would hang you
out to dry, and "pull your nappy down in front of the entire school,
putting your excrement on pubicl display" metaphorically speaking -
if you started abusing him, so you are sucking up to him, and gently
trying to sucker him into your fantasy, or at least get him to give
you some credit to your nonsense to try and look clever or learned to
the rest of the group (who know what you are really like over years of
experience) to try and get their approval so the newer members will
think you to be some genius and beacon of wisdom and knowledge and try
and pull them onto your team to use them against the others.

You also think he is undecided on the subject and can be nudged in
your direction, so you handle with care. You know that I and some
others already have studied the matter,and those behind it, and have
made up their own minds and will not entertain your rubbish, so there
is no point in being nice to us, as it won't change anything, so you
just try and be nasty, abusive etc to impress the others. I guess its
also a threat to others that you may think to be timid, or wanting
approval from others that "this is what will happen to you if you
don't support me" type bullying.

With me, you have known me on here for a decade or so, know that I
generally don't bother pursuing or carrying on drawn out battles with
abusive clowns as I have better things to do.

I have seen the futile results in the past, one of the most memorable
being of the group trying to convince fuckwits like Miro of basic
facts of ohms law, except in his case, he is arguing against
mathematics, and mathematics in its pure form is one true science
that you cannot argue with.

I more find you an interesting example of someone who is either
mentally disturbed, very very gullible, believes unconditionally in
bullshit, or thinks it cool to do so, kind of like a religious cult
member, or a radical nutter - who desperately needs professional help
to be de-programmed, (this is way out of my area of expertise to do
this for you) and based on this knowledge I really don't care much
what you want to say about me, Im a big boy, been in business all my
adult life, and seen and done enough in that time of how the real
world works to not be shocked or offended any more :).

I know you will believe in man-made global warming, and whatever the
next fear and control scam gets cooked up, until the day you hit the
bottom of your grave, hence the old russian saying - "only the grave
cures the hunch-backed".

I even find your insults somewhat funny at times and get a good laugh
out of it.

> Still waiting for some answers from you.......
>
> --
> Trevor Wilsonwww.rageaudio.com.au

You got plenty :)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 27 2011 10:55 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:24:35 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
<trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:

>* Clear, unequivocal evidence that the planet is warming at a faster rate at
>any time in the last 600,000 years.

Ahem...
<http://junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/All_Comp.png>
from:
<http://junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/Warming_Look.html>

>* Clear, unequivocal evidence that the planet is experiencing a rate of CO2
>rise that is faster than at any time in the last 600,000 years.

Ahem...
<http://www.junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/UAHMSUglobe.html>

>* Clear, unequivocal evidence that the rate of temperature rise has been
>closely linked to CO2 rise in the past.

Yep. Track volcanoes.
<http://junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/scale2.html>
<http://junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/scale1.html>

Ok, I'll be the first to mention that Steven Milloy may have taken
money from Exxon (indirectly), but it has never been proven. Decide
for yourself:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Milloy>

Since you're so sure that AGW is a proven thing, maybe you can collect
the $500,000 from Milloy? Send a few dollars my way if you succeed:
<http://ultimateglobalwarmingchallenge.com>

>* Clear, unequivocal evidence that Solar variability fails to account for
>the temperature rise over the last 200 years.

Maybe. The problem is that none of the satellites are able to measure
planetary albedo with sufficient accuracy to make a definitive
determination. We can do almost nothing in the way of measuring
albedo from the ground. The plan is for the satellite to measure how
much energy is reflected by the planet (which includes atmospheric,
ocean, ice, land, etc) and also solar output. The energy difference
is presumed to be what the planet absorbs. Note that all the energy
is not necessarily at IR (heating). Apparently it's sufficiently
important that NASA burned $424 million on the failed Glory launch,
and other global warming related birds. The current assumption that
solar variations do not account for the alleged rise in average
temperatures is based on computer models with some rather serious
potential errors.

There's also a rather odd problem of just what the satellites are
actually measuring. Temperature varies with altitude. Satellite IR
imagers measure through all the various layers of the atmosphere. If
there are clouds covering a land mass, the IR imager gets the
temperature of the clouds, not the ground. So, to prevent this
obvious anomaly, the computers are set to only read numbers where
there are no clouds. However, that discounts the effects of aerosols
and particulates (i.e. dust) in the upper atmosphere, which does a
marvelous job of reflecting sunlight into the IR imager. Volcanoes
make it really difficult to get accurate readings. Plenty of other
complications requiring the usual tweaks, adjustments, compensations,
normalization, and cherry picking. Oh well.

What Malloy has done with the "global thermometer" mentioned above is
to take as much of the METAR and NOAA temperature data as possible and
average all of it. The theory is that if you're faced with a large
number of potentially erroneous data points, and don't have the means
to reduce the errors, averaging all the bad data together will somehow
result in good data. That's because the errors will tend to be in
random directions and hopefully cancel. Since the IPCC uses the same
method, one can presume it to be valid. However, I have my doubts.

Anyway, I have not attempted to debunk anything that you've offered.
What I've done it attempt to undermine your apparently unshakable
certainty in AGW and the IPCC. If I've set you on the path of
critical thinking and academic skepticism, then I haven't wasted my
time.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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TOPIC: Sony Bravia KLV-32BX320 Price in India
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/59f8727750b18260?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Sep 27 2011 11:20 pm
From: ritesh

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