sci.electronics.repair - 20 new messages in 9 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Winter Special Electric Room Heater - Buy 1 Get 1 Free + Stylish
Branded Watch
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/108bb21fe8393503?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 24 2011 11:59 pm
From: ritesh

The product is Winter Special Electric Room Heater - Buy 1 Get 1 Free
http://www.naaptol.com/price/939934-Winter-Special-Electric-Room-Heater---Buy-1-Get-1-Free-+-Stylish-Branded-Watch.html.
This one is easy & safe to use also portable & light weighted with
power indicator light. With this enjoy heat & cold in the room. It is
a vertical type fan heater with OFF/ FAN/Hot I/Hot II wind. Also has
Cool Airflow for Summer Use. It has automatic control temperature for
overheat protection. It is Portable & Light Weight and is a Vertical
type fan heater. It comes in as Year End Dhamaka Offer. As one can
Shop & Win Cash Value Back Voucher Up to Rs. 1 Lakh.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Repaired Harbor Freight digital caliper
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8587e526bcdbeaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:27 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 22:29:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:46:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
>>>> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
>>>> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>>>
>>>a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
>>>waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
>>>1.35V in 3.25 seconds.
>
>Trying the same calc using the super-cap formula from Pg 6 of:
><http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>
>
> t = C delta V / I
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
>where:
> t: Back-up time (sec)
> C: Capacitance of Type EDL (Farads)
> V0: Applied voltage (Volts)
> V1: Cut-off voltage (Volts)
> i: Current during back-up (Amps)
> iL: Leakage current (Amps)
> R: Internal resistance (ohms) at 1 kHz
>
>For this example, I'll use a 0.1F (type F) 5.5V 100 ohm cap.
>The low end of the tolerance range might drop this to 0.08F.
>V0 = 2.0V, V1 = 1.4V, i = 15uA, iL = 2uA
>
>Plugging in:
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
> t = 0.08F[2.0V-(15uA*100ohms)-1.4V]/(15uA+2uA)
> t = 2800 sec = 47 minutes.
>Not bad.
>
>I guess the protective case that most calipers use will need a clear
>plastic window to keep it charged. Maybe another window on top of my
>toolbox.

http://www.judgetool.com/500seriessupercaliper-solarpoweredip67.aspx

http://www.widgetsupply.com/page/WS/PROD/caliper-digital/BAP30
(only 2 digits)

http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/solar-power-digital-caliper.html

Quite a number of them.....

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:06 am
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 25, 12:46 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:13:15 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
> wrote:
>
> I found this, which calculates and measures caliper battery life:
> <http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>

Yes, good site. I linked to it earlier in this thread.

> >Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
> >aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
> >regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
> >anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.
>
> True. However, switching regulators usually have some manner of load
> shedding when the supply voltage is insufficient. Below that
> threshold, the current drain is usually in nanoamps.
>
> >(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
> >It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)
>
> You're ahead of me. I've never designed anything in that low power
> class. Different world. Can you point me to a suitable (or close to
> suitable) regulator chip?

There aren't any ICs with low enough Iq, at least not that I know of.
I used discrete transistors.

> >Not so fast... The advantage of the thin-film PV panels is that
> >(appropriate) panels excel at producing power even in dim light.
> >Polycrystalline silicon panels don't.
> >The array I suggested for experimentation is thin-film for that
> >reason--so it can work in indoor light levels.
>
> Decisions, decisions, and more decisions. Polycrystaline has a cost
> advantage and is more efficient than single layer thin-film. Well, if
> I wanted to go cheap, I would use amorphous cells and mold them into
> the plastic case. For small solar cells, the cost of monocrystaline
> isn't all that much more (i.e. most of the cost is in packaging and
> handling) but won't work well with indoor lighting. So, I guess
> thin-film is the least disgusting.
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_powered_calculator>
> "Solar calculators may not work well in indoor
> conditions under ambient lighting as sufficient lighting
> is not available."

You can scavenge a PV from a cheap solar calculator, as low as $1. I
also linked to a part from Goldmine-elec.com.

Polycrystalline cells put out lots more in bright light, but AFAIK,
all solar calculators (and calipers, for that matter), use the
amorphous (thin-film) cells for the low-light performance. Cost might
also be a factor.

> >> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
> >> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
> >> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>
> >a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
> >waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
> >1.35V in 3.25 seconds.
>
> I used 1000uF elsewhere in my calcs, but slipped here and used 100uF
> instead. Sorry.
>
> I think you might be a bit too conservative. 5ua leakage is high.
> Most of the spec sheets I've skimmed show 1-2ua for a typical 1F 5.5V
> super-cap.
>
> >Of the setup I suggested, the most marginal part is the itty bitty PV
> >panel (its output is on the low side). Dark leakage on my much-larger
> >10x55mm calculator panel is about 8uA @ 1.7V bias.
>
> The alternative is to lose approximately 0.3V in a series Schottky
> diode. That's about 20% of the power budget, which is probably too
> much.

I believe the panels put out a high enough overvoltage that the diode
loss doesn't matter--it's only going to get wasted in the LED shunt
regulators any how. I'll check.

MEASUREMENTS
Panel: 4-section 10x50mm panel, from a (retired) TI calculator:

Lighting 1: 1.8V (open), 18.5uA (short-circuit)
Lighting 2: 2.5V (open), 300uA (short-circuit)

[1] Modest indoor light (indirect sunlight, filtering through blinds,
measured from the ceiling bounce).
[2] 2' from 20W halogen bulb.

So, a 1n4148 drops too much for comfort. A BAT54 drops about 150mV
forward at these currents, and leaks a fraction of a uA at these
temperatures and reverse biases. Or, you could omit the diode and
just let the thing power down in the shade.

> >The supercap works wonderfully well. Charge 0.6F to 1.8V, and you've
> >got 4 hours' runtime until you reach the 1.35V battery-low display-
> >starts-blinking level. (Assuming 20uA total draw, to allow for some
> >leakage.)
>
> Ok. You've sold me. I was trying to see what could be done with
> commodity electrolytic caps. Also, super-caps fail to appreciate high
> humidity, which may become a problem.
>
>
>
> >> <http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm>
> >> From 1.37V is roughly 50% of full 3.0VDC charge. That's about 80% of
> >> 1RC time constant. 1RC is:
> >> 0.8 * 100K * 1000uF = 80 seconds
> >> That's probably enough to make a few measurements. Any longer and a
> >> super-cap will probably be needed. Picking 50% of full charge out of
> >> the hat is rather convenient, as it makes the time to charge from zero
> >> to the dropout point the same 80 seconds (yes, I'm lazy). Whether the
> >> user really wants to wait 1.5 minutes under a desk lamp for the
> >> calipers to be usable is dubious. Of course, a longer run time, means
> >> a longer charge time. For example, a 1F 5V 1ua leakage super-cap,
> >> will run the calipers for 80,000 seconds, but will also take 80,000
> >> seconds to charge.
>
> >Not 80,000s. Expose the PV to sunlight (or directly to a lamp), and
> >it'll charge (initially) >50x faster. You'd only have to do that
> >once. Indoors, the PV would keep it topped off, that's the idea.
>
> Yep. However, I screwed up. The discharge load is:
> 1.5VDC / 15uA = 100K ohms
> However, the charging ESR is much less.
> 3.0VDC / 2ma = 1.5K
> It will certainly be higher a lower illumination levels. Checking my
> junk cell under random room lighting conditions, and again scaling for
> size, I get:
> 0.333 * 0.55v / 0.02mA = 9.2K
> I don't have a small thin film panel to test. (I have 90watt panel,
> but that's a bit much for scaling to caliper size).
>
> >Alternatively, an electrolytic works, but gives a caliper that quickly
> >quits if you accidentally shadow it.
>
> Not if you do exactly like it's done with a calculator. When the cell
> is shaded, it runs on battery. A silver-oxide battery holds:
> 1.5v * 150 mA-Hr = 22.5 milliwatt-Hrs
> and will deliver most of that before the voltage drops to unusable
> levels.
>
> The super cap will deliver (very roughly):
> 1.5v * 15uA * 4Hr = 90 microwatt-Hrs
>
> >There are much smaller supercaps--0.02F--used in cellphones. That's
> >another option / compromise. Leakage should be better too.
>
> Overview of CDE super-caps:
> <http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>
> Some interesting notes on charge time and lifetime near the bottom.
>
> >> In my never humble opinion, what makes more sense is to do it exactly
> >> like the typical solar powered calculator. They all have one or two
> >> LR44 batteries inside. However, the solar cell does NOT charge the
> >> battery. When you turn the calculator on, and there's enough light to
> >> run from the solar cell, the battery is essentially disconnected. When
> >> there's not enough light to run the calculator, it runs off the
> >> battery. No waiting to charge a capacitor from the solar cell.
>
> >That uses the PV as, basically, a battery-extender. That's fine, but
> >complex--you need a micro-power switch to disconnect the battery, etc.
> >(A diode drops waayyy too much voltage.) That puts it out of the
> >realm of a simple project that can fit into the existing caliper.
>
> There has to be a chip in the calipers anyway to count pulses, run the
> display, and deal with the push buttons. Adding a power management
> feature does not add much real estate or complexity. However, if
> you're thinking of a retrofit, I suspect something could be done with
> a separate switcher chip.

If we're designing it from scratch, we just wouldn't use so darn much
power to start with. Then, a PV panel and a capacitor are all you
need.

Switcher chips just don't do well on 20uA power input.

> >> If you're into high tech, there are various energy scavenging devices
> >> that can also power the calipers.
> >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_harvesting>
> >> With only 22.5 microwatts required, it might be possible to power the
> >> device with a wind up key, piezo pressure, body heat, kinetic magnetic
> >> generator, etc. I kinda like the idea of a wind up caliper.
>
> >Windup would be fun--steampunk.
>
> In the late 1960's, I designed and built a paging receiver, that
> produced the message output on a 1/4" wide roll of paper tape. Battery
> power to the mechanics for such a portable device was impossible. So,
> I went to a wind up coil spring mechanism. I've been somewhat of a
> fan of spring power ever since.
>
> >The "real" solution is to design the caliper to draw less current in
> >the first place, like Mitutoyo and Starrett. If you've done that,
> >solar-powering is a snap, but then, if the battery lasts years, you
> >don't need solar power, do you?
>
> Agreed. It would be like a digital watch, which typically has a 10
> year battery life. However, the solar cell is still a problem because
> of the dark current (reverse leakage). An isolating Schottky diode
> can reduce that, but then the solar cell would need to be about 20%
> larger to compensate for the added loss.
>
> Another problem is that it would be no fun. Windup calipers offer a
> far more entertaining problem to solve.

Windup calipers--that's cool!

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:22 am
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 25, 1:29 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 21:46:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>> The next question is for how long will it run? Assuming the calipers
> >>> can handle 3.0VDC without damage, how long will a junk 100UF
> >>> electrolytic cap run the calipers?
>
> >>a) How long will it run? Not nearly long enough, and b) 3.0VDC is
> >>waayyy too risky for my blood. 20uA will discharge 100uF from 2.0V to
> >>1.35V in 3.25 seconds.
>
> Trying the same calc using the super-cap formula from Pg 6 of:
> <http://www.cde.com/catalogs/EDL.pdf>
>
> t = C delta V / I
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
> where:
> t: Back-up time (sec)
> C: Capacitance of Type EDL (Farads)
> V0: Applied voltage (Volts)
> V1: Cut-off voltage (Volts)
> i: Current during back-up (Amps)
> iL: Leakage current (Amps)
> R: Internal resistance (ohms) at 1 kHz
>
> For this example, I'll use a 0.1F (type F) 5.5V 100 ohm cap.
> The low end of the tolerance range might drop this to 0.08F.
> V0 = 2.0V, V1 = 1.4V, i = 15uA, iL = 2uA

That cap is 14x10mm, pretty humungous. You don't need 5.5v, so the
'EN' type, at 7x2mm and 0.2F might be a better fit.

> Plugging in:
> t = C[V0-(i*R)-V1] / (i+iL)
> t = 0.08F[2.0V-(15uA*100ohms)-1.4V]/(15uA+2uA)
> t = 2800 sec = 47 minutes.
> Not bad.

I calculated the caliper as being a constant-current drain on the
super cap, then applied Q=CV. Actual current drain drops a tad with
falling Vdd, so my approximation is probably slightly conservative.

> I guess the protective case that most calipers use will need a clear
> plastic window to keep it charged. Maybe another window on top of my
> toolbox.

Yep. Another retro-fit possibility is to fit a supercap in the
caliper, and a lithium-AA (1.65v) in the caliper case that recharges
the supercap when not in use.

That'll last forever (about 10years on the 'AA'), runs for hours per
charge, fits the case easily, and doesn't need a PV or any fancy
circuitry. The PAS920 I linked before costs 5/$1 surplus, from
Goldmine-elec.com.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 2:31 pm
From: "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:06:57 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com wrote:

>On Nov 25, 12:46 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:13:15 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> I found this, which calculates and measures caliper battery life:
>> <http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>
>
>Yes, good site. I linked to it earlier in this thread.
>
>> >Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
>> >aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
>> >regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
>> >anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.
>>
>> True. However, switching regulators usually have some manner of load
>> shedding when the supply voltage is insufficient. Below that
>> threshold, the current drain is usually in nanoamps.
>>
>> >(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
>> >It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)
>>
>> You're ahead of me. I've never designed anything in that low power
>> class. Different world. Can you point me to a suitable (or close to
>> suitable) regulator chip?
>
>There aren't any ICs with low enough Iq, at least not that I know of.
>I used discrete transistors.

There are some pretty good ones, designed for USB applications, but I don't
thing they're quite good enough for this. The TPS6205x Iq is around 5uA to and
in shutdown less than 2uA. You're looking for something an order of magnitude
better than this?

<...>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 9:28 pm
From: dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com

On Nov 25, 5:31 pm, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:06:57 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >On Nov 25, 12:46 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 18:13:15 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
> >> wrote:
>
> >> I found this, which calculates and measures caliper battery life:
> >> <http://www.davehylands.com/Machinist/Caliper-Batteries/>
>
> >Yes, good site. I linked to it earlier in this thread.
>
> >> >Small, cheap and simple are the main factors here. The r.c.m. guys
> >> >aren't going to be building switching regulators, and switching
> >> >regulators generally aren't more efficient at these power levels
> >> >anyhow--their quiescent current draw's too high.
>
> >> True. However, switching regulators usually have some manner of load
> >> shedding when the supply voltage is insufficient. Below that
> >> threshold, the current drain is usually in nanoamps.
>
> >> >(I've made a study of designing microwatt switchers, from scratch.
> >> >It's possible, but wholly inappropriate here.)
>
> >> You're ahead of me. I've never designed anything in that low power
> >> class. Different world. Can you point me to a suitable (or close to
> >> suitable) regulator chip?
>
> >There aren't any ICs with low enough Iq, at least not that I know of.
> >I used discrete transistors.
>
> There are some pretty good ones, designed for USB applications, but I don't
> thing they're quite good enough for this. The TPS6205x Iq is around 5uA to and
> in shutdown less than 2uA. You're looking for something an order of magnitude
> better than this?
>
> <...>

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps62050.pdf

From the graph on the front page, it looks like n = ~35% @ 15uA
output. That's actually very good. Thanks.

My designs were mostly boost topology, so there may be ICs I didn't
consider (plus new ICs I haven't seen). I did some nutty stuff, like
nano-amp oscillators and micro-amp switchers that were roughly 75%
efficient.

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Garmin vs Tomtom
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/05bb6bddf1b8fc41?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 3:40 am
From: Bruce Esquibel

hrhofmann@att.net <hrhofmann@att.net> wrote:

> I see advertisements for Garmin and TomTom GPS units, with lifetime
> map updates and same size 5" screens for the same prices. Does anyone
> have any experience with both units that can state a preference. Also,
> I wonder how the companies behind the units are set financially, a
> lifetime update is meaningless if the company goes out of business.

Which is something to reckon with.

Keep in mind the usefulness of stand-alone gps units is in a decline with
the advent of the cell phones and tables that have gps in them. That and
even economy cars have some built-in option these days, although expensive.

I doubt if either company is going to tank soon, but it's sort of like being
in the horseshoe business with Ford building the model T plant down the
road.

-bruce
bje@ripco.com

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 4:01 am
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/25/2011 5:40 AM, Bruce Esquibel wrote:
> Keep in mind the usefulness of stand-alone gps units is in a decline with
> the advent of the cell phones and tables that have gps in them.

That's like saying screwdrivers and knives are in decline because of
Swiss Army knives.

> I doubt if either company is going to tank soon, but it's sort of like being
> in the horseshoe business with Ford building the model T plant down the
> road.

Stand along GPS/mapping units aren't in the same category as buggy
whips. They certainly do a better job at being GPS units then the
try to do everything under the sun iPads.

Jeff

--
"Everything from Crackers to Coffins"

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:15 am
From: Tim Schwartz

On 11/24/2011 11:25 AM, hrhofmann@att.net wrote:
> I see advertisements for Garmin and TomTom GPS units, with lifetime
> map updates and same size 5" screens for the same prices. Does anyone
> have any experience with both units that can state a preference. Also,
> I wonder how the companies behind the units are set financially, a
> lifetime update is meaningless if the company goes out of business.

Good morning all,

I've got a Garmin 1490T (T= traffic report receiver) which I'm quite
happy with. That said, any of the 3 major brands (Garmin, TomTom or
Magellian) are likely to be just fine. I would have a look at the user
interface, and see which you like best.

I would consider any of these a 5-7 year device at best. At some point
the internal battery will die, or some other failure will occur, or
you'll just loose the darn thing. Or the new ones will be so much
better that you'll want one.

I've found the dedicated navigation unit far superior to ones on
phones, and much more economical than ones built into cars, especially
if you have several cars in your family.

As another point against built in units, Auto manufacturers charge
obscene amounts for updates. I had a friend whose dealer quoted $700
for the new DVD set for his 2005 car. Almost as offensive as charging
$500 for a USB interface, which likely cost them about $6.00. ($99
radios have them built in.)

Regards,
Tim Schwartz
Bristol Electronics

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sharp GF 990G ghetto blaster
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/87b2eef7dbd95b2e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 6:20 am
From: "N_Cook"

Back working again with all 7 bands replaced with new silicone rubber bands.
I wonder how long they will last. I read last week that silicone rubber is
not as tolerant of cyclic loading, which dynamic use of this material I
suppose is so, especially around the smaller drive bobbins

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple tone control?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/eb3fafaa60fb8246?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:25 pm
From: DaveC

A general question:

Should pots used in the audio tone filter circuits be audio (log) taper? Or
does this apply only to volume pots?

Thanks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 1:30 pm
From: spam@spam.com (Don Pearce)

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 13:25:37 -0800, DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:

>A general question:
>
>Should pots used in the audio tone filter circuits be audio (log) taper? Or
>does this apply only to volume pots?
>
>Thanks.

Linear

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Curious longlived battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5a954e0d64a72bc5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:36 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

ca 1995 I bought some 7yr diver watches from Woolworth. WHen they doed I
tried to replace the battery but the entire watch was sealed in silicone and
could not be salvaged. I had tied one of those watched to the handlebar of my
bicycle, face towards the sky. It still runs. Is it because the battery
remained flat? It is kinda miraculous!

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Aerial wifi antennae
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7919aac51f31b136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:40 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to force
people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
computer TV card. My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.
Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
cable?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:53 pm
From: "Charlie"

<vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com> wrote in message
news:japg2d$goa$4@reader1.panix.com...
> Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
> move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to
> force
> people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
> also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
> computer TV card. My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.
> Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
> cable?
>
> - = -
> Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
> http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
> [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
> [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

Google is your friend.

I built the one here http://www.tvantennaplans.com/ when digital
transmission was becoming more popular but was not yet he only game around.

I hooked it up to my 32" Vizio and was able to receive all the networks and
a few other providers.
I am in the flat land of Florida and with the antenna on the floor and about
4' above ground level.
It is fairly directional but one day when cable was out I was the only one
in the neighborhood watching he tube.

Charlie

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 5:56 pm
From: "Charlie"

"Charlie" <left@thestation.com> wrote in message
news:japgpn$1lg$1@dont-email.me...
>
> <vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com> wrote in message
> news:japg2d$goa$4@reader1.panix.com...
>> Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
>> move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to
>> force
>> people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
>> also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
>> computer TV card. My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.
>> Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
>> cable?
>>
>> - = -
>> Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus,
>> BioStrategist
>> http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
>> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
>> [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
>> [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime
>> Bimbos]
>
> Google is your friend.
>
> I built the one here http://www.tvantennaplans.com/ when digital
> transmission was becoming more popular but was not yet he only game
> around.
>
> I hooked it up to my 32" Vizio and was able to receive all the networks
> and a few other providers.
> I am in the flat land of Florida and with the antenna on the floor and
> about 4' above ground level.
> It is fairly directional but one day when cable was out I was the only one
> in the neighborhood watching he tube.
>
> Charlie

BTW I did not use the reflectors shown near the end

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:48 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sat, 26 Nov 2011 01:40:29 +0000 (UTC),
vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

>Since HDTV came out, I basically get one different station in each room I
>move the TV to. Someone joked that the reason HDTV was invented was to force
>people off of aerial TV. Any anecdotes? I tried some booster antennae and
>also a thru the AC antennae to no avail. The best antenna was one from a
>computer TV card.

Get an outside antenna.
There's no such thing as an HDTV antenna. They're VHF, UHF, or both.
The amplifier goes near the antenna on the roof.
Use RG-6/u coax, not twinlead.
Try not to fall off the roof.

>My uncle has had some better luck with a roof antenna.

No luck required. Indoor antennas only work in strong signal areas.
You've supplied no numbers or location, so you only get general
advice.

>Are people out there silly enough to waste their time and money watching
>cable?

I pay for DirecTV satellite. The local OTA (over the air) broadcast
programming is awful. I receive HDTV OTA fairly well, but only with a
rotator and self designed antenna and amplifier.

Antenna aiming:
<http://www.tvfool.com>

Antenna comparisons:
<http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html>

The basics of HDTV:
<http://www.hdtvprimer.com>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Panasonic NV-J22 video output to Archos 5
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0420837a4eaefa79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 6:44 pm
From: myfathersson

On Nov 24, 6:52 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Nov 24, 12:43 am, myfathersson <licensedtoqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 6:04 pm, b <reverend_rog...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 23, 11:04 pm, myfathersson <licensedtoqu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I am hoping this question isnt too non-specific or the answer too
> > > > obvious but I just shlepped this Panasonic multi-system TV which I
> > > > originally brought from the US to UK back again to record lots of PAL
> > > > videos to the Archos. Now however there doesnt seem to be any video
> > > > output at all.
>
> > > > I can see the sound on the bar graphic input on the Archos but the
> > > > Archos doesnt report any input signal. All I am doing is to out put
> > > > the signal from the video out of the Panasonic to the video in on the
> > > > Archos DVR station.
>
> > > I'm confused by your post. Are you talking about a Panasonic multi
> > > standard tv, or a Panasonic vhs video recorder?
> > > -B
>
> > Sorry about the confusion
>
> > Not sure how it got caused
>
> > The Panasonic NV-J22 is a VHS video cassette recorder. I am trying to
> > transfer the contents of VHS cassettes onto the Archos 5
>
> we need to narrow this down. First ascertain that the vhs is
> outputting video. For all we know, the heads might be dirty. Try
> connecting it to a normal tv set. It should sync down to 50hz pal
> frame rate, and I imagine you'd get a black and white picture....
> -b

OK I think you are right: I will have to find some sort of converter
for the European output cable to a coax connector and try that output
into a TV. The Archos may well not report ANY input unless the pic is
perfect.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nakamichi CD Player 3 - needs to heat before it's able to read disc
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7fae55556abb29a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 7:51 pm
From:

Hi,

I have a Nakamichi CD Player 3, circa 1992, that is a terrific player, but
requires to be warmed up for about 1.5 hours before it is able to read the
disc; After this point, then it works fine.

I am not sure why the warm up needed, but it is drag when you have to build
in this lead-time into your CD listening.

Any thoughts as to why this is happening and steps to remedy will be most
appreciated..

Thanks

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 25 2011 8:04 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

<andrewsave@hotmail.com>
>
> I have a Nakamichi CD Player 3, circa 1992, that is a terrific player, but
> requires to be warmed up for about 1.5 hours before it is able to read the
> disc; After this point, then it works fine.
>
> I am not sure why the warm up needed, but it is drag when you have to
> build in this lead-time into your CD listening.
>
> Any thoughts as to why this is happening and steps to remedy will be most
> appreciated..

** Might be sticky lubricant on moving parts.

Do not tackle it yourself - take it to an experienced audio tech.

.... Phil

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