sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* 1/4" phone jack replacement for Behringer 215 speaker. - 5 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0fd5e32c8baa1611?hl=en
* Why use a contactor? - 15 messages, 11 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8a277d142156dff2?hl=en
* Yamaha Stagepas 500W - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ffe9b12e2d51ee46?hl=en
* another odd battery problem - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/845e39030c509722?hl=en
* Favorite Cutters For Snipping DIP Leads? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/30d89f0c2d193f6d?hl=en
* Amonits MW9BNK repair question - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/93e2df5866005dcc?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 1/4" phone jack replacement for Behringer 215 speaker.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0fd5e32c8baa1611?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 7:37 pm
From: "Phil Allison"



"David Farber"
>
> This Behringer 215 speaker has two 1/4" phone jacks that are wired in
> parallel. It also has two Speakon jacks wired in parallel to facilitate
> adding extra speakers to the system. The unit came to me with one broken
> 1/4" phone jack. The picture of the pc board is here.
> http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Electronics/Behringer/pc-board.jpg
> The Speakon jacks were fastened to the back panel of the cabinet with two
> screws per jack. On the other end of the screw was a nut. Unfortunately,
> the nut wasn't anchored to anything so it was futile to try and remove the
> screw. The circuit board prevented me from inserting any tool in there to
> hold the nut while I was turning the screw.

** A small, long blade screwdriver does the trick - just wedge the tip
between the nut and the body of the Speakon to prevent it turning.

The jack sockets should be "mono" versions - stereo ones will short out as
you have found.


.... Phil










== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 7:39 pm
From: "Phil Allison"



"David Farber"

> Another piece of information here. If I plug in a stereo phone plug, then
> there is no short circuit. Is there some industry standard to use stereo
> phone plugs in this type of application?

** No way.

Mono plugs are always used for speaker leads.


.... Phil









== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:23 pm
From: "David Farber"


Phil Allison wrote:
> "David Farber"
>>
>> This Behringer 215 speaker has two 1/4" phone jacks that are wired in
>> parallel. It also has two Speakon jacks wired in parallel to
>> facilitate adding extra speakers to the system. The unit came to me
>> with one broken 1/4" phone jack. The picture of the pc board is here.
>> http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Electronics/Behringer/pc-board.jpg
>> The Speakon jacks were fastened to the back panel of the cabinet
>> with two screws per jack. On the other end of the screw was a nut.
>> Unfortunately, the nut wasn't anchored to anything so it was futile
>> to try and remove the screw. The circuit board prevented me from
>> inserting any tool in there to hold the nut while I was turning the
>> screw.
>
> ** A small, long blade screwdriver does the trick - just wedge the
> tip between the nut and the body of the Speakon to prevent it turning.
>
> The jack sockets should be "mono" versions - stereo ones will short
> out as you have found.
>
>
> .... Phil

Thanks for the confirmation of the mono plug and the trick to remove the
screw in the Speakon jack.

--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA






== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 12:51 am
From: N_Cook


On 12/01/2014 01:33, David Farber wrote:
> This Behringer 215 speaker has two 1/4" phone jacks that are wired in
> parallel. It also has two Speakon jacks wired in parallel to facilitate
> adding extra speakers to the system. The unit came to me with one broken
> 1/4" phone jack. The picture of the pc board is here.
> http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Electronics/Behringer/pc-board.jpg
> The Speakon jacks were fastened to the back panel of the cabinet with two
> screws per jack. On the other end of the screw was a nut. Unfortunately, the
> nut wasn't anchored to anything so it was futile to try and remove the
> screw. The circuit board prevented me from inserting any tool in there to
> hold the nut while I was turning the screw. You can see the results. I
> replaced the Speakon jacks, no problem.
>
> With the help of a Mouser telephone tech to match the original part, I
> ordered replacement 1/4" phone jacks, manufacturer part number NYS232.
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/REAN/NYS232/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujcNYWYyUSyMSHhOqDb3buvV%252b7cmiFFRuQ%3d
> The owner suggested I replaced both of them as long as I had it apart. The
> parts arrived and I installed them. I wired everything back in place.
> Something told me to check the input impedance of the speaker with a
> multimeter just to make sure it was wired probably. It was a good thing I
> did. It measured a direct short from the speaker plug input. After searching
> up and down for a short, I didn't find any until I inserted the phone plug
> into the jack. That's when an internal contact in the jack switched to a
> different position and shorted out the plug. Ok, I guess this jack will not
> work on this pc board. I called Behringer's parts department and had them
> research the original part. After a day or two of researching, I received a
> call back from Behringer and ordered the parts. I received the parts today.
> Excited to finally get the speaker repaired, I removed the Mouser jacks and
> put in the Behringer jacks, same thing. Direct short across the input
> terminals. Then I looked inside and noticed there wasn't any difference in
> the terminal configuration between the Mouser jack and the replacement
> Behringer jack. I will call Behringer back on Monday to discuss this
> situation but meanwhile, do any of you know what kind of 1/4" phone jack is
> supposed to fit on this pc board?
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>

Just a thought, are the outputs in antiphase and just one of them is
exhibiting this "fault" if you check to chassis ground?




== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 5:24 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"


It's amazing Fran Allyson didn't jump all over you.

The 1/4" phone jack is (supposedly) a balanced line-level input. If you plug a
mono plug into it, the plug's sleeve will short the jack's ring to ground.
This is normal; there's nothing inherently wrong with this. It's one way
unbalanced signals can be connected to balanced inputs.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B215.aspx

I suspect you have a problem that isn't really a problem.






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why use a contactor?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8a277d142156dff2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 7:44 pm
From: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"


clare@snyder.on.ca fired this volley in
news:a924d9t33tnjrtqblj749uprvfo3j88tpk@4ax.com:

> The simplicity and safety of using low voltage controls instead of
> requiring heavy duty limit switches. One adequately sized contactor
> and as many microswitches as you want as controls to turn it on or
> off, running at low voltage and low current.
>

Indeed, and you can add to that (if properly installed) that a contactor
will prevent accidental re-powering of equipment if it stops due to a
power failure.

With a mechanical switch, if one were to forget to turn off equipment
after a power failure, it could come on unexpectedly when power returns.

Lloyd




== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:33 pm
From: DaveC


> The reason to use a contactor instead of just an on / off switch is that the
> insides of the switch can get full of saw dust and turn on the saw with the
> switch in the off position. I've seen this happen!
> Regular AC switches are not sealed well enough, but you can buy sealed
> switches with lower current ratings which is enough to engage the contactor.
>
> Shaun.

Best answer yet.

Yes, we all know about "during a power failure" but many times this won't be
an issue (actually the friend would appreciate the saw continuing the cut
after power comes back!), but the "auto turn-on" feature )c: is one I hadn't
thought of.

Thanks!





== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:41 pm
From: "Mike Marlow"


DaveC wrote:
>> The reason to use a contactor instead of just an on / off switch is
>> that the insides of the switch can get full of saw dust and turn on
>> the saw with the switch in the off position. I've seen this happen!
>> Regular AC switches are not sealed well enough, but you can buy
>> sealed switches with lower current ratings which is enough to engage
>> the contactor.
>>
>> Shaun.
>
> Best answer yet.
>
> Yes, we all know about "during a power failure" but many times this
> won't be an issue (actually the friend would appreciate the saw
> continuing the cut after power comes back!), but the "auto turn-on"
> feature )c: is one I hadn't thought of.
>
> Thanks!

It may not get you much mileage with your friend. Despite the previous
poster's claim to have "seen this", you really have to consider the
likelihood of such a thing. Wood is an... insulator. Though he may have
"seen this", do you think your friend is going to believe it to be a real
enough possibility for him to consider? There are millions of simple
switches in shops all over the world - and they work. It would probably be
hard to convince your friend their is a real risk here. For good reason...

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@windstream.net






== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:46 pm
From: Leon


On 1/11/2014 9:29 PM, Shaun wrote:
>
>
> "DaveC" wrote in message
> news:0001HW.CEF726730137FDD4B01029BF@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> A friend (in USA) with a 220v, 1-phase horizontal bandsaw in his home
> machine
> shop wants to replace the 1/4 hp motor with 1/2 hp and rewire with an
> auto-off switch (when the blade cuts through the metal).
>
> I always default to using a 3-wire control with contactor, but he asks the
> logical question: "Why?"
>
> Other than the "If the power fails while cutting" answer (which he says
> seems
> of limited additional value on a saw with auto-stop feature) I wasn't very
> convincing.
>
> What are the arguments for using a contactor as opposed to a simple on-off
> switch of equivalent rating?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> The reason to use a contactor instead of just an on / off switch is that
> the insides of the switch can get full of saw dust and turn on the saw
> with the switch in the off position. I've seen this happen!
> Regular AC switches are not sealed well enough, but you can buy sealed
> switches with lower current ratings which is enough to engage the
> contactor.
>
> Shaun.


Not likely.




== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:56 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"


On 2014-01-12, DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:
> A friend (in USA) with a 220v, 1-phase horizontal bandsaw in his home machine
> shop wants to replace the 1/4 hp motor with 1/2 hp and rewire with an
> auto-off switch (when the blade cuts through the metal).
>
> I always default to using a 3-wire control with contactor, but he asks the
> logical question: "Why?"
>
> Other than the "If the power fails while cutting" answer (which he says seems
> of limited additional value on a saw with auto-stop feature) I wasn't very
> convincing.
>
> What are the arguments for using a contactor as opposed to a simple on-off
> switch of equivalent rating?

Mostly -- the contactor would (or should, if wired correctly)
break power to both sides of the motor. And -- he can use a lighter
duty switch for the "cut complete" switch, so the weight of the arm
would be more likely to trip it. A heavy duty switch capable of
handling the current of a 1/2 HP motor, and switching both sides of the
240 VAC feed might take too much operating force.

Also -- the "cut complete" switch can be a momentary contact
one, so you lift the arm, reposition the stock for the next cut, let the
blade down in contact with the workpiece, and push a button more
conveniently located to re-start the motor.

*And* -- a mushroom switch can be conveniently located to power
the motor down if it starts spitting smoke. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnicholsBP@d-and-d.com> | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---




== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 8:57 pm
From: DaveC


> Not likely.

??





== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 9:08 pm
From: Ignoramus13867


The best argument for using a contactor in a small bandsaw, is that
you can get proper thermal overloads to protect the motor.

i
cc
On 2014-01-12, DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:
> A friend (in USA) with a 220v, 1-phase horizontal bandsaw in his home machine
> shop wants to replace the 1/4 hp motor with 1/2 hp and rewire with an
> auto-off switch (when the blade cuts through the metal).
>
> I always default to using a 3-wire control with contactor, but he asks the
> logical question: "Why?"
>
> Other than the "If the power fails while cutting" answer (which he says seems
> of limited additional value on a saw with auto-stop feature) I wasn't very
> convincing.
>
> What are the arguments for using a contactor as opposed to a simple on-off
> switch of equivalent rating?
>
> Thanks.
>




== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 9:36 pm
From: Leon


On 1/11/2014 10:57 PM, DaveC wrote:
>> Not likely.
>
> ??
>
It does not happen, or happens so rarely that it is deemed unnecessary
on 110 volt machines. It's an industrial safety feature to prevent
automatic start up after a power failure. Think multiple numbers of
machines in an industrial setting starting back up all on their own.

Additionally like your AC thermostat in your home the 220 volts going to
the condensing unit out side does not come near the person adjusting the
thermostat. You really don't want a 220 volt switch shorting or
electrocuting some one. Better that the switch be lower voltage.




== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 10:23 pm
From: Sjouke Burry


On 12.01.14 6:36, Leon wrote:
> On 1/11/2014 10:57 PM, DaveC wrote:
>>> Not likely.
>>
>> ??
>>
> It does not happen, or happens so rarely that it is deemed unnecessary
> on 110 volt machines. It's an industrial safety feature to prevent
> automatic start up after a power failure. Think multiple numbers of
> machines in an industrial setting starting back up all on their own.
>
> Additionally like your AC thermostat in your home the 220 volts going to
> the condensing unit out side does not come near the person adjusting the
> thermostat. You really don't want a 220 volt switch shorting or
> electrocuting some one. Better that the switch be lower voltage.
>
Thats just silly. 99 percent of switches in
european houses work just fine with 240 volts.
Only the door bell and the thermostat
runs at low volts.....




== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 10:40 pm
From: jurb6006@gmail.com


In the US the 240 volts is balanced and you are alot better off switching both hots for a few reasons related to safety. Also about not restarting after a power outage. This shold be enough to get you to pony up the twenty bucks for a relay. the kind they use in an AC condensing unit should do fine.




== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 10:45 pm
From: John Robertson


On 01/11/2014 8:41 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> DaveC wrote:
>>> The reason to use a contactor instead of just an on / off switch is
>>> that the insides of the switch can get full of saw dust and turn on
>>> the saw with the switch in the off position. I've seen this happen!
>>> Regular AC switches are not sealed well enough, but you can buy
>>> sealed switches with lower current ratings which is enough to engage
>>> the contactor.
>>>
>>> Shaun.
>>
>> Best answer yet.
>>
>> Yes, we all know about "during a power failure" but many times this
>> won't be an issue (actually the friend would appreciate the saw
>> continuing the cut after power comes back!), but the "auto turn-on"
>> feature )c: is one I hadn't thought of.
>>
>> Thanks!
>
> It may not get you much mileage with your friend. Despite the previous
> poster's claim to have "seen this", you really have to consider the
> likelihood of such a thing. Wood is an... insulator. Though he may have
> "seen this", do you think your friend is going to believe it to be a real
> enough possibility for him to consider? There are millions of simple
> switches in shops all over the world - and they work. It would probably be
> hard to convince your friend their is a real risk here. For good reason...
>

Wood may be an insulater but carbon certainly isn't. I suspect what the
provious poster was talking about was burnt bits of sawdust being
conductive. They would be burnt by the sparks present when the switch
was opened...leading to a potentially hazardous situation!

John :-#(#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."




== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 11 2014 11:56 pm
From: DaveC


> The best argument for using a contactor in a small bandsaw, is that
> you can get proper thermal overloads to protect the motor.
>
> i
> cc

Can you get just thermal overloads without a contactor?





== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 6:01 am
From: "Jim Wilkins"


"DaveC" <invalid@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:0001HW.CEF75B1E01445600B01029BF@news.eternal-september.org...
>> The reason to use a contactor instead of just an on / off switch is
>> that the
>> insides of the switch can get full of saw dust and turn on the saw
>> with the
>> switch in the off position. I've seen this happen!
>> Regular AC switches are not sealed well enough, but you can buy
>> sealed
>> switches with lower current ratings which is enough to engage the
>> contactor.
>>
>> Shaun.
>
> Best answer yet.
>
> Yes, we all know about "during a power failure" but many times this
> won't be
> an issue (actually the friend would appreciate the saw continuing
> the cut
> after power comes back!), but the "auto turn-on" feature )c: is one
> I hadn't
> thought of.
>
> Thanks!

The problem is that the contactor needs a bulky and expensive sealed
enclosure. I've wired my machinery with waterproof outdoor boxes and
flex conduit from big-box stores, but they don't carry large JIC boxes
with watertight doors.
http://www.austinenclosures.com/products/view/JIC_Continuous_Hinge_Boxes/







== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 6:38 am
From: SteveF


On 1/12/2014 8:01 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

>
> The problem is that the contactor needs a bulky and expensive sealed
> enclosure. I've wired my machinery with waterproof outdoor boxes and
> flex conduit from big-box stores, but they don't carry large JIC boxes
> with watertight doors.
> http://www.austinenclosures.com/products/view/JIC_Continuous_Hinge_Boxes/
>

A small IEC motor starter may be used with a cheap plastic enclosure. 4
screw JIC enclosures will suffice. 6x8x4 inch should be adequate. If
the motor has internal overload protection, smaller contactors/
enclosures may be used.





== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 6:38 am
From: SteveF


On 1/12/2014 1:56 AM, DaveC wrote:
>> The best argument for using a contactor in a small bandsaw, is that
>> you can get proper thermal overloads to protect the motor.
>>
>> i
>> cc
>
> Can you get just thermal overloads without a contactor?
>

Yes.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yamaha Stagepas 500W
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ffe9b12e2d51ee46?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 5:20 am
From: N_Cook


At least I know its safe , like the 300W ones, to swap L an R PAs,
confirming that a problem on the PA and not farther back.
I've previously tried on 300W ones visually comparing L and R amps to
find the extra transistor or trace . Everyone knows of the antiphase
output of the L one but where is the balancing inversion. Its on the
CONTROL3 board just prior to the PA header connectors, swapping of
signals to INV and NON-INV lines. So as far as I can find, despite
different identifying overlay labels on these PAs, there is no
electronic difference. Not sorted out what the CLK/CLOCK means as tied
to output_ground , with no connectors in the output 1/4 speaker sockets
anyway.
As cold DVM-D test comparisons of long-tail sections of each PA has not
shown up anything amiss, at the moment I'm assuming a transistor is
leaking a bit, especially as this amp is used outdoors. With +\-30V
bench ps powering, one section is off, will try 30V powering of the good
PA and see if the same with that one, no zeners around .
Then if the same I'll have to fudge my usual bench ps to supply +\-45V
by setting as isolated 30V & -30V with another single isolated 30V
supply bridging it along with a couple of 15V zeners, with fingers crossed.
I've decided its too awkward to try probing live, via the units ps ,on
all this SMD stuff, in an awkward position even with 5w power line
extender , having decided not to put droppers in there . It really needs
a test frame making up to hold these very light boards in place.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: another odd battery problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/845e39030c509722?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 5:27 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"


"John Robertson" wrote in message
news:LuKdnU3ILK7hekzPnZ2dnUVZ5h2dnZ2d@giganews.com...

> I'm no expert, but why not ask your question here:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_nickel_based_batteries

Why not? Thanks.






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Favorite Cutters For Snipping DIP Leads?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/30d89f0c2d193f6d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 5:28 am
From: N_Cook


Another consideration is multiplicity of tool use. Such side cutters can
only be used for very light duty, no power transistor leads or worse.
Break the cutter face and an expensive replacement (especially if used
in a shared workshop).
Break a Dremmel disc and 20 cents to replace. And such drills have a
some <infinity of uses.
If a circuit board is too cluttered to get a disc in to an IC then a
ball-mill or small cylinder or cone "diamond" bit will probably get
where a dedicated pair of end snips will not go




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 6:34 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"


I did this a few years ago when I had to remove a DIP and a five-lead TO-cased
buffer from the top of a board.

The TO package came lose with a pair of cutters. I don't remember how I
removed the DIP, but I'm pretty certain I used a cutoff disk. (Even if you
have fine-tipped cutters, you run the risk of damaging the board from the
force exerted.) I don't remember what I did about the fine shavings (if there
were any).






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Amonits MW9BNK repair question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/93e2df5866005dcc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 6:06 am
From: Sam


On 10/01/2014 22:20, SteveF wrote:
> First - Does this look like a bad capacitor?

No, see below.

> The goo coming out the top and out by the legs makes it seem
> suspect.

That isn't goo coming out of the top & legs - it is some type of glue or
other fixative added during manufacturing, to keep the cap and the
ferrite beads on the legs in place.

I agree that the symptoms likely point to a PSU-related fault, but I
don't know that model to be able to offer other detailed suggestions.

Based just on experience with other PSUs, I would look _closely_ at the
electrolytics (top _and_ bottom of each) for _any_ sign of distress /
bulging, and check for any dry solder joints.




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 12 2014 6:22 am
From: SteveF


On 1/12/2014 8:06 AM, Sam wrote:
> On 10/01/2014 22:20, SteveF wrote:
>> First - Does this look like a bad capacitor?
>
> No, see below.
>
>> The goo coming out the top and out by the legs makes it seem
>> suspect.
>
> That isn't goo coming out of the top & legs - it is some type of glue or
> other fixative added during manufacturing, to keep the cap and the
> ferrite beads on the legs in place.
>
> I agree that the symptoms likely point to a PSU-related fault, but I
> don't know that model to be able to offer other detailed suggestions.
>
> Based just on experience with other PSUs, I would look _closely_ at the
> electrolytics (top _and_ bottom of each) for _any_ sign of distress /
> bulging, and check for any dry solder joints.

Thank you. I already looked for obvious problems with electrolytics.
None of them have any abnormal bulges. A closer inspection of the
solder joints will be performed. I think I need a magnifying glass
with a higher power, or new eyes. :-)




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