sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Open SSID for HP printers - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
* FUCK OFF Liebermann NUT CASE - 11 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
* Test post for Termey - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
* Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current - 10
messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
* The Economic System of Islam - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/98dfdf2fc7a7e805?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Open SSID for HP printers
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f0e2aeceb0c71fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 4:51 pm
From: Michael Black


On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:

> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
> of documents to the printer(s)?
>
>
Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
break into your house.

Michael





== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 7:54 pm
From: Paul Drahn


On 1/2/2014 4:51 PM, Michael Black wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>
>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>
>>
> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
> break into your house.
>
> Michael
>
True, but they can print pornographic pictures for your kids viewing
pleasure.

Paul




== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 12:15 am
From: Leif Neland


Paul Drahn forklarede den 03-01-2014:
> On 1/2/2014 4:51 PM, Michael Black wrote:
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, root wrote:
>>
>>> I went walking around my neighborhood scanning for open wifi
>>> hotspots and found several HP printers. Does that mean
>>> that someone could park outside the place and a long stream
>>> of documents to the printer(s)?
>>>
>>>
>> Look on the bright side. They can't retrieve the printing unless they
>> break into your house.
>>
>> Michael
>>
> True, but they can print pornographic pictures for your kids viewing
> pleasure.
>
Or, like a glazier hires a punk kid to break windows, an office supply
dealer can hire somebody to use all the toner and paper :-)

Leif

--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.







==============================================================================
TOPIC: FUCK OFF Liebermann NUT CASE
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c90e1a6c9dfca321?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 4:51 pm
From: "Shaun"




"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bik2r7FlgbdU1@mid.individual.net...

"Jeff Liebermann = retarded asshole "
>
>
>
>>>>> Ok, I yield to a higher authority. Heating power is average power:
>>>>> <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
>>>>> However that doesn't stop nearly everyone from specifying RMS power.
>>>
>>>> ** There is no such quantity as " RMS power " if you are so stupid as
>>>> to
>>>>interpret the term literally.
>>>
>>> Which term should be interpreted non-literally?
>
>>** The term " RMS power " of course -
>
> I thought ...

** No you didn't - cos you are incapable of thought.

The quotation marks made my words quite *impossible* to misinterpret.



>>> Very good. But since there doesn't seem to be any correlation with
>>> heating power (despite using a thermocouple to do the measuring) and
>>> RMS volts or watts,
>>
>>** Quite wrong - there is a very close connection.
>

( snip more TOTALLY IRRELEVANT SHIT )

Leiberman - you are the stupidest, most retarded, constantly lying fuckwit
on the NG.

Get cancer and fucking DIE !


Hey Phil;

I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any details
except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I have
compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know if
anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
readings matched.
I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you have
to buy an RMS meter.


Shaun







== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 2 2014 5:04 pm
From: "Phil Allison"



"Shaun"
>
> I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
> shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
> the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
> Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any
> details except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I
> have compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know
> if anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
> readings matched.

** No fooling...........

> I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you
> have to buy an RMS meter.

** That sort of nonsense *would* be said by someone who either owned an RMS
meter or was selling them.

Thermal RMS meters are virtually obsolete these days and have been replaced
by cheap analogue RMS to DC computation ICs in many hand held DMMs OR by
digital sampling computation in most DSOs.

The hand held kind have a limited measurement bandwidth compared to the
latter.

Depends what your needs are.

As Clint Eastwood might have said -

" Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".




.... Phil






== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:35 am
From: dave


On 01/02/2014 04:07 PM, Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. wrote:
> In article <B4GdnYZ19saY4VjPnZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> ricketzz@earthlink.net says...
>>
>> On 01/02/2014 04:05 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>> "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
>>> news:nsj9c95bm2ec1giaju7tj0gc43ne25s007@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
>>> On Pg 6 it says:
>>> "The RMS value of power is not the equivalent heating power and,
>>> in fact, it doesn't represent any useful physical quantity."
>>> and:
>>> "The RMS power is different than the average power, and therefore
>>> isn?t the equivalent heating power. In fact, the RMS value of the
>>> power doesn?t represent anything useful."
>>
>>> I remember a Popular Electronics quiz with questions about how a
>>> voltmeter (at that time, a moving-coil device) would read, depending on
>>> the waveform supplied. A key point was that the deflection was
>>> proportional to the average current flowing through the coil, but the
>>> meter was usually calibrated for the RMS value of a sinewave.
>>
>> Why do you keep quoting notes from Llewelen? He wrote a modeling program
>> for wire antennas. We are talking about FETs.
>>
>> I think AVG = RMS only if waveform is pure sinewave. Otherwise you must
>> use calorimeter or thermocouple to find true RMS.
>
> AVG and RMS is not the same with sine waves..
>

Then they never are the same?





== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:41 am
From: dave


On 01/02/2014 05:04 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>
> "Shaun"
>>
>> I used to work at an Industrial and Instrumentation repair and Calibration
>> shop that was licensed by Beckman to repair and calibrate there DMMs. In
>> the good ones, the RMS converted used a thermal method to determine RMS
>> Voltage and Current. That was 18 years ago and I don't remember any
>> details except that they used thermal measurement on a heated element. I
>> have compared the reading on the Beckman - Then Wavetek - now I don't know
>> if anyone is still making them, to a Fluke RMS DMM at 60 Hz and DC and the
>> readings matched.
>
> ** No fooling...........
>
>> I have always heard that if you really want to know the real value, you
>> have to buy an RMS meter.
>
> ** That sort of nonsense *would* be said by someone who either owned an RMS
> meter or was selling them.
>
> Thermal RMS meters are virtually obsolete these days and have been replaced
> by cheap analogue RMS to DC computation ICs in many hand held DMMs OR by
> digital sampling computation in most DSOs.
>
> The hand held kind have a limited measurement bandwidth compared to the
> latter.
>
> Depends what your needs are.
>
> As Clint Eastwood might have said -
>
> " Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
>
>
>
>
> .... Phil
>

In television you calibrate the output power metering by operating into
a full power liquid cooled dummy load and measuring the temperature of
the coolant.

Using computational methods on amplifier input parameters is not the
preferred way to determine power (an efficiency factor must be assumed)
and you must ask the FCC for special permission to use the "direct method".

Dave the Re-Re




== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 9:10 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"



William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> "Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
> news:quc9c95b8el5pqevbftgm87mqs5cf8akrh@4ax.com...
>
> > OK, I yield to a higher authority. Heating power is average power:
> > <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>
> > However that doesn't stop nearly everyone from specifying
> > RMS power.
>
> Unfortunately, no.
>
> > So, why do people buy true-RMS voltmeters? If they don't measure
> > anything useful, why bother?
>
> A fair question. Apparently, there was a time when AC power had a significant
> percentage of harmonics (perhaps it still does), and engineers wanted to know
> its "true" heating effect.


This is my favorite True RMS meter. Section three is a description
of how it works. The AC power line is anything but a clean sine wave.
Switching power supplies and older electronics with a single diode in
the power supply distort it, even more. The single diode causes a DC
component on your power, which confuses a simple analog meter. Three
phase is even worse, with all the harmonics on the neutral. There were a
lot of fires in office buildings and factories after the PC became
widespread. It used to be to code to use a smaller neutral on three
phase, than the tree phase lines. The harmonics caused the neutral to
overheat and in some cases, started fires.

I like this Fluke for many reasons, including the ability to read to
.01 dB variations in a signal. I used one to test the -3dB points on
video filters, up to 20 MHz. For anything higher I used a Boonton 9200
RF voltmeter.

Before someone smarts off, Video isn't just television. We produced
equipment with selectable bandwidth from DC>10 KHz to DC>40 MHz in 16
customer specified bandwidths. SDI digital video was 270 MHz, and HD is
even higher.

<http://www.ko4bb.com/Manuals/Fluke/Fluke_8920A_8921A_True_RMS_Voltmeter_Operation_and%20_Service_Manual_Oct78.pdf>


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.




== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:23 pm
From: "Phil Allison"



"dave the autistic fool " <ricketzz@earthlink.net>
>
>> As Clint Eastwood might have said -
>>
>> " Man's gotta know the limitations of his test equipment ".
>
>
> In television you calibrate the output power metering by operating into a
> full power liquid cooled dummy load and measuring the temperature of the
> coolant.

** That would be for the actual transmitter on VHF or UHF - right ?

Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF
power of a microwave oven.

Got SFA to do with the topic.



.... Phil






== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 7:33 pm
From: "Phil Allison"



"dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT "


> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
> capability.

** No it was not.


> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
> waveform causes more heating.


** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
application.

It is only related to the device itself.

Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.



.... Phil







== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 5:43 am
From: dave


On 01/03/2014 07:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT"
>
>
>> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
>> capability.
>
> ** No it was not.
>
>
>> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
>> waveform causes more heating.
>
>
> ** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
> application.
>
> It is only related to the device itself.
>
> Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
> mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
>
>
>
> .... Phil

Odd. I thought Maximum values were on the data sheet. Anyway, a MOSFET
used as a switch makes less heat so it can have a higher current rating
than one used class AB.





== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 6:43 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"



dave wrote:
>
> On 01/03/2014 07:33 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> > "dave the pig ignorant autistic IDIOT"
> >
> >
> >> The question was why is audio power spec is half that of DC on/off
> >> capability.
> >
> > ** No it was not.
> >
> >
> >> It is because the device stays on all the time and because the audio
> >> waveform causes more heating.
> >
> >
> > ** A maker's max dissipation spec for a semiconductor is not related to the
> > application.
> >
> > It is only related to the device itself.
> >
> > Normally, the figure given is for *ideal* operating conditions - like when
> > mounted on an infinite heatsink held at 20C.
> >
> >
> >
> > .... Phil
>
> Odd. I thought Maximum values were on the data sheet. Anyway, a MOSFET
> used as a switch makes less heat so it can have a higher current rating
> than one used class AB.


'Safe Operating Area' is more important than individual maximums.



--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.




== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:08 am
From: Leif Neland


Phil Allison skrev:
>
> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power RF power
> of a microwave oven.

Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power
on.

Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it
to boil.

Preferably in a microwave-safe plastic container.

I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...

Leif

--
Husk k�relys bagp�, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske
beslutning at undlade det.






== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:22 am
From: mike


On 1/4/2014 8:08 AM, Leif Neland wrote:
> Phil Allison skrev:
>>
>> Same idea as using a glass of water and a thermometer test the power
>> RF power of a microwave oven.
>
> Just don't leave the thermometer in the microwave oven with the power on.
>
> Measure the temperature of the cold water, then measure the time for it
> to boil.
>
> Preferably in a microwave-safe plastic container.
>
> I measured the power of my previous oven to 230W...
>
> Leif
>
When I did similar tests, I found the order of magnitude was right,
but the result depended on the shape and volume of the mass of water
and position in the oven.

It's easy to imagine that the microwaves bounce around and most of the
energy ends up
in the water. Wonder how accurate that model?
Wonder what the "official" water configuration is when they determine
the spec?





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Test post for Termey
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75f33cf051c5534b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 10:25 am
From: jurb6006@gmail.com


On Wednesday, January 1, 2014 4:52:09 PM UTC-5, jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
> I am testing this from Firefox now.






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Request test jig suggestion for microUSB phone charging current
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d4fd3d1d8e105a63?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 1:55 pm
From: Danny D'Amico


How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?

For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
male-to-male cable.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg

If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
(to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?

Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?

Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
are very very thin, and therefore fragile?

Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
current.

Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?

NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.





== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 2:09 pm
From: "Colin Horsley"



"Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
: How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
:
: For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
: male-to-male cable.
: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
:
: If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
: recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
: (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
:
: Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
:
: Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
: are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
:
: Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
: current.
:
: Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
:
: NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
: determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
: is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.

Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
Detector "


Colin






== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 3:09 pm
From: sms


On 1/3/2014 2:09 PM, Colin Horsley wrote:
> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
> :
> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
> : male-to-male cable.
> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
> :
> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
> :
> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
> :
> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
> :
> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
> : current.
> :
> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
> :
> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "

or
<http://dx.com/p/usb-av-usb-power-current-voltage-tester-translucent-blue-silver-235090>






== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 4:24 pm
From: Danny D'Amico


On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:

> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "

Hi Colin,
That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
the inner wires to a series of screws.

What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.

Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
meter leads.

But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.





== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 5:00 pm
From: mike


On 1/3/2014 3:09 PM, sms wrote:
> On 1/3/2014 2:09 PM, Colin Horsley wrote:
>> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
>> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
>> :
>> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
>> : male-to-male cable.
>> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
>> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
>> :
>> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
>> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
>> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
>> :
>> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
>> :
>> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
>> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
>> :
>> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
>> : current.
>> :
>> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
>> :
>> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
>> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
>> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>>
>> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current
>> voltage tester
>> Detector "
>
> or
> <http://dx.com/p/usb-av-usb-power-current-voltage-tester-translucent-blue-silver-235090>
>
>
>
Cool...I was ready to order one until I saw that the data doesn't pass thru.
WTF? The connectors are almost touching, why no data?
Kinda hard to measure the drain of a disk drive in action when it won't
come out of sleep.

Why would you not connect the data unless there were problems?

Anybody bridged the data? Results?




== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 5:05 pm
From: mike


On 1/3/2014 4:24 PM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>
>> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>> Detector "
>
> Hi Colin,
> That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
> the inner wires to a series of screws.
>
> What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
> piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>
> Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
> meter leads.
>
> But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
> out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>
That works if you never want any data thru it.
Better would be to cut the power wire and run that thru a meter.
Get out your ohms law calculator and verify that your meter resistance
won't defeat you.

Leave all the high speed data wires and ground alone.




== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 3 2014 9:46 pm
From: "Colin Horsley"



"Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
: On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
:
: > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
: > Detector "
:
: Hi Colin,
: That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
: the inner wires to a series of screws.
:
: What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
: piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
:
: Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
: meter leads.
:
: But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
: out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
:

Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
Works very well.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516

Colin







== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 7:55 am
From: Lab Lover


On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:46:46 +1100, "Colin Horsley" <horsley-spam@westnet.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
>news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
>: On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>:
>: > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>: > Detector "
>:
>: Hi Colin,
>: That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
>: the inner wires to a series of screws.
>:
>: What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
>: piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>:
>: Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
>: meter leads.
>:
>: But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
>: out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>:
>
>Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
>I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
>Works very well.
>
>http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
>
>Colin
>
>

Interesting looking device. I wonder how accurate it is? Kind of expensive if
you ask me.




== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:04 am
From: mike


On 1/4/2014 7:55 AM, Lab Lover wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 16:46:46 +1100, "Colin Horsley" <horsley-spam@westnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Danny D'Amico" <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2014.01.04.00.24.57@is.invalid...
>> : On Sat, 04 Jan 2014 09:09:54 +1100, Colin Horsley wrote:
>> :
>> : > Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
>> : > Detector "
>> :
>> : Hi Colin,
>> : That works, but I was just going to slice a cable in half, and then attach
>> : the inner wires to a series of screws.
>> :
>> : What I'm thinking is to screw two row of (five?) brass screws into a
>> : piece of wood, and then attaching the cable wires to each row.
>> :
>> : Then I can either jump the distance with a copper wire, or with the
>> : meter leads.
>> :
>> : But before I build the test jig, someone might suggest a better platform
>> : out of parts commonly found in the garage or shop.
>> :
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't read the description fully! I thought it was too good to be true.
>> I have actually built this kit, and it does pass through data.
>> Works very well.
>>
>> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5516
>>
>> Colin
>>
>>
>
> Interesting looking device. I wonder how accurate it is?

Other than the numbers on the first page of the link?
Kind of expensive if
> you ask me.
>





== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 8:21 am
From: "Alexander Y. Sure"


On 04/01/14 06:09, Colin Horsley wrote:
> "Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pan.2014.01.03.21.55.23@is.invalid...
> : How would you make a test jig out of a spare USB cable?
> :
> : For $1.99, I bought at Frys today, this 6-foot USB-A to microB USB
> : male-to-male cable.
> : http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2894/11739074746_d8ebbfe363_o.jpg
> : http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3770/11738580543_301162631e_o.jpg
> :
> : If I cut the cable in half, and isolate the wires, how would you
> : recommend I set it up so that it could become a test jig
> : (to see how much charging current a device actually draws)?
> :
> : Have you done this before and have advice for how to make that jig?
> :
> : Specifically, how would you fasten the bare wires, which I presume
> : are very very thin, and therefore fragile?
> :
> : Also, we'd need a way to insert the ammeter inline to measure
> : current.
> :
> : Any test jig ideas I can benefit from?
> :
> : NOTE: This is an offshoot of the USB charger thread, where we
> : determined that a 3.1 Amp dual-USB charger that is 10 Watts
> : is very different than the same spec at 15 Watts.
>
> Look on eBay "NEW Universal portable USB power mobile mini Current voltage tester
> Detector "
>
>
> Colin
>
>
...or here:
http://tinyurl.com/lmvbyl9

About 5 US$ with free shipping to USA.

Werner






==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Economic System of Islam
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/98dfdf2fc7a7e805?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 4 2014 5:38 am
From: bv4bv4bv4@gmail.com


The Economic System of Islam

1-An introduction to the principles Islam has legislated to guide the economic system of society. Part 1: The sources from which the laws that guide economical activity are derived.
2-The Ideological Basis of Economic Activity and the general principles by which they are guided

Introduction
As a complete way of life, Islam has provided guidelines and rules for every sphere of life and society. Naturally, a functioning economic system is vital for a healthy society, as the consumption of goods and services, and the facilitation of this by a common medium of exchange, play a major role in allowing people to realize their material and other goals in life.

Islam has set some standards, based on justice and practicality, for such economic systems to be established. These standards aim to prevent the enmity that often occurs between different socioeconomic sections. Of course, it is true that the gathering of money concerns almost every human being who participates in transactions with others. Yet, while these standards recognize money as being among the most important elements in society, they do not lose sight of the fact that its position is secondary to the real purpose of human existence, which is the worship of God.

An Islamic economic system is not necessarily concerned with the precise amount of financial income and expenditure, imports and exports, and other economic statistics. While such matters are no doubt important, Islam is more concerned with the spirit of the economic system.

A society that implements Islamic laws and promotes Islamic manners will find that it bring together all the systems – social, economic, and so forth – that it deals with. Islam teaches that God has created provision for every person who He has brought to life. Therefore, the competition for natural resources that is presumed to exist among the nations of the world is an illusion. While the earth has sufficient bounty to satisfy the needs of mankind, the challenge for humans lies in discovering, extracting, processing, and distributing these resources to those who need them.

Islam consists of a set of beliefs which organizes the relationship between the individual and his Creator; between the person and other human beings; between the person and universe; and even the relationship of the person to himself. In that sense, Islam regulates human behavior, and one type of human behavior is economic behavior. Economic behavior is dealt by Muslims as a means of production, distribution, and consumption of goods and services. In Islam, human behavior -whether in the economic area or others - is not value free; nor is it value neutral. It is connected with the ideological foundation of the faith.

The Sources of Islamic Economics
The fundamental sources of Islam - the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet[1] - provide guidelines for economic behavior and a blueprint of how the economic system of a society should be organized. Therefore, the values and objectives of all "Islamic" economic systems must necessarily conform to, and comply with, the principles derived from these fundamental sources. The purpose of these articles is to outline the most salient characteristics of an economic system based on the fundamental sources of Islam. The focus here is on the principal features of the Islamic system.

The Islamic economic system is defined by a network of rules called the Shariah. The rules which are contained in the Shariah are both constitutive and regulative, meaning that they either lay the rules for the creation of economic entities and systems, as well the rules which regulate existing one. As an integral part of the revelation, the Shariah is the guide for human action which encompasses every aspect of life – spiritual, individual, social, political, cultural, and economic. It provides a scale by which all actions, whether on the part of the individual agents, society, and the state, are classified in regards to their legality. Thus there are five types of actions recognized, namely: obligatory; recommended; permissible; discouraged; and forbidden. This classification is also inclusive of economic behavior.

The basic source of the Shariah in Islam is the Quran and the Sunnah, which include all the necessary rules of the Shariah as guidance for mankind. The Sunnah further explains these rules by the practical application of Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him. The expansion of the regulative rules of the Shariah and their extensions to new situations in later times was accomplished with the aid of consensus of the scholars, analogical reasoning - which derived rules by discerning an analogy between new problems and those existing in the primary sources - and finally, through textual reasoning of scholars specialized in the Shariah. These five sources - the Quran, the Sunnah, consensus of the scholars, analogical reasoning, and textual reasoning - constitute the components of the Shariah, and these components are also used as a basis for governing economic affairs.

Justice
In summary, we can say that the Islamic Economic system is based upon the notion of justice It is through justice that the existence of the rules governing the economic behavior of the individual and economic institutions in Islam can be understood. Justice in Islam is a multifaceted concept, and there several words exist to define it. The most common word in usage which refers to the overall concept of justice is the Arabic word "adl". This word and its many synonyms imply the concepts of "right", as equivalent to fairness, "putting things in their proper place", "equality", "equalizing", "balance", "temperance" and "moderation." In practice, justice is defined as acting in accordance with the Shariah, which, in turn, contains both substantive and procedural justice[2] covering economic issues. Substantive justice consists of those elements of justice contained in the substance of the Shariah, while procedural justice consists of rules of procedure assuring the attainment of justice contained in the substance of the Law. The notion of economic justice, and its attendant concept of distributive justice, [3] is particularly important as an identifying characteristic of the Islamic economic system. The rules governing permissible and forbidden economic behavior on the part of consumers, producers and government, as well as questions of property rights, and of the production and distribution of wealth, are all based on the Islamic view of justice.

The following topics will be discussed in the following articles:

(a) individual obligations, rights, and self-interest;

(b) property rights;

(c) importance of contracts;

(d) work and wealth;

(e) the concept of barakah;

(f) economic justice;

(g) prohibition of interest (riba);

(h) competition and cooperation; and

(i) the role of the state.

The Ideological Basis of Economic Activity
The ideological basis in Islam may be summarized into six basic principles:

The cornerstone is that everything has to start from the belief in God as the Creator, Lord, and Sovereign of the universe. This implies willingness to submit to God's will, to accept His guidance, and to have complete and unqualified servitude to Him. This means that Muslims - individually and collectively - should not imitate or emulate any other system if it differs from their particular principles, for example, the system of usury or interest.

The second basic principle is that Islam, as a religion, is a complete way of life; something that guides a person's life in all its aspects: the moral, social, ethical, economic, political, etc. All of these aspects are based on the guidance of God. Therefore, it is not a question of the person's acceptance of God's teaching in one matter and the refusal of acceptance in another. Everything has to be within that basic guidance.

"…And we have revealed to you in stages this book, a clarification of all things, a guidance, a mercy, and glad tidings…" (Quran 16:89)

A third principle is that God created human beings on earth as His trustees, which means that everyone is created to fulfill a certain responsibility on this earth. God has entrusted human beings with free will in order that they live their lives according to the moral and ethical values that He Himself provided. In addition, Islam provides an opportunity in material progress, thereby combining moral, social, and material progress, all interlinked in harmony.

The fourth principle is that God, in order to help humankind to fulfill the responsibility of trusteeship, has made everything in this universe subservient to them. There are many verses in the Quran that suggest this meaning, such as:

"God is He Who made subservient to you the sea that the ships may run therein by His command, and that you may seek of His grace, and that you may give thanks." (Quran 45:12)

This does not mean, however, that humans are given free reign to use and abuse the resources God has provided us however we choose. Rather, there are many verses that urge humankind to harness the various resources that God has made available to them on this earth responsibly. Humans are encouraged to enjoy of the good things that God has created, but they are to do so within the boundaries that He has given. Doing so is not regarded as sinful as long as it follows His path and does not transgress His limits. God says:

"It is He Who produces gardens, with trellises and without, and dates, and tilth with produce of all kinds, and olives and pomegranates, similar (in kind) and different (in variety): eat of their fruit in their season, but render the dues that are proper on the day that the harvest is gathered. But waste not by excess: for God loves not those who waste." (Quran 6:141)

The fifth principle is the principle of accountability in the Hereafter. God has given human beings trusteeship and resources. This means that every single person will be questioned on the Day of Judgment as to how he or she behaved whilst enjoying his or her earthly life. This, of course, includes our economic behavior. God says:

"And then on that Day (the Day of Resurrection) you will be called to account for every comfort and delight [we bestowed upon you]." (Quran 102:8)

The sixth principle is that the variation in wealth among people in itself does not give a person either inferiority or superiority. Rather, poverty and affluence are in the total control of God Who, out of His Infinite Justice and Wisdom, has specified these things for whom he chooses.

"Indeed God increases provision to whom He pleases and straitens it [in regards to others]…" (Quran 13:26)

Affluence, like poverty, is also seen as a trial from God, one through which it is seen what one will do with their wealth – indulge oneself or use constructively in ways legislated in the religion, God says:

"Your wealth and your children are only a trial, whereas God! With Him is a great reward (Paradise)."(Quran 64:15)

After being bestowed with numerous gifts and bounties and a kingdom incomparable to any other on the earth, God in the Quran narrates that Solomon said:

"…This is from the bounties of my Lord, to test me whether I will be thankful or ungrateful…" (Quran 27:40)

God is not concerned with the amount of wealth a person may have amassed, their beauty or color, but rather, His measure of honor is the piety of the hearts. God says:

"On humankind! Indeed We created you from a male and female, and we made you different nations and tribes, that you may come to know one other. Indeed the most honored amongst you are the most God-conscious." (Quran 49:13)

The Prophet also said:

"Indeed God is not concerned with your appearances nor your wealth, but rather your hearts and deeds." (Saheeh Muslim)

As one can immediately surmise from these principles that the Islamic economic system is radically different from others, due to the difference of the values upon which it is based. In a capitalist society, one may see certain rules of economics which take precedence over moral and ethical values due to the intrinsic nature and values of that system. The same may be seen in communist, socialist and other societies as well. From the principles mentioned in these articles does the Islamic system of economics spring, striking balance between personal benefit and the benefit of society as a whole, as well as mundane profits and spiritual gains, all which ensure that one gain the Pleasure of the Lord of the Worlds.


[1] The Sunnah is general body of narrations of the speech, deeds, and tacit approvals of the Prophet.
[2] "Substantive justice means reaching the 'right' result. Procedural justice means getting the result in the 'right' way." (A speech entitled "Effective Arbitration Techniques in a Global Context" delivered by the Secretary for Justice of Hong Kong ,Ms Elsie Leung)
[3] "Normative principles designed to allocate goods in limited supply relative to demand." Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
(http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/justice-distributive/)


http://www.islamhouse.com/429666/en/en/articles/The_Economic_System_of_Islam

Thank you




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