sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Trying to understand the current draw of a Samsung Galaxy S3 under GPS & low
battery - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1dceb0f9a68c6f2d?hl=en
* I bought a Moto G from Motorola, and it doesn't come with a CHARGER! - 12
messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a656ae396ed31d8e?hl=en
* How do I get Voice-to-Text back in my Android 4.3 for SMS texting? - 9
messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/73bd95f6d9063aaf?hl=en
* Pioneer SX-R9 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9364e6bb610f5555?hl=en
* How to properly feed GPS navigation prompts into a bluetooth earpiece? - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ff70bbb8288b005e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trying to understand the current draw of a Samsung Galaxy S3 under GPS &
low battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1dceb0f9a68c6f2d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:02 am
From: Danny D'Amico


This article was pointed out to me by Jeff L. and it is interesting in that it
explained the Chinese standard, the EU standard, and the Apple standard of USB
charging circuits:
http://blog.curioussystem.com/2010/08/the-dirty-truth-about-usb-device-charging/

Apple, being different, used voltages for their charging circuitry:
- low current: 2.8 volts across Data(+)
- high current: 2.0 volts across Data(-)

The EU used a 1/8W 200 ohm resistor, & the Chinese simply short the data pins.

The five 1/8 watt resistor "hybrid" circuit in that article nicely explains how
a USB charger can work *either* for Apple (voltage) or EU (resistance) or
Chinese (short) charge circuits; but not all three at the same time!




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:21 am
From: Danny D'Amico


Another related article that Jeff L. pointed out today was this:
http://instructables.com/id/Modify-a-cheap-USB-charger-to-feed-an-iPod-iPhone

That article nicely further explains the Apple charging standard:
a) 2.0 V on D+ & 2.0 V on D- tells the Apple device it's a 500 mA port
b) 2.0 V on D+ & 2.8 V on D- tells the Apple device it's a 1 A port





==============================================================================
TOPIC: I bought a Moto G from Motorola, and it doesn't come with a CHARGER!
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a656ae396ed31d8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:07 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 17:55:55 +0100, Leviatan wrote:

> Linear or switched voltage regulators, as the ones used in phone chargers,
> are mostly self current limiting, so there is no risk, just that moto-G
> will tabe a bit longer to charge.

I understood that the risk of the Moto-G sinking too much current is
minimal (since I assumed it had current-limiting circuitry to prevent
battery overcharging).

However, if the Moto-G takes, say, 1 Amp to just run whatever is running
on it (admittedly high, but this is just a worst-case scenario), and if
the USB port is only a typical 500mA port, then the battery will slowly
discharge.

In practice, if you're charging your Moto-G, most of the time you're not
also using it, except in the case of GPS and bluetooth and dashcams which
is what you'd be using in a car.

So, the key problem is that the *car* charger has to be beefy just to
keep up with the demands of the phone, and not just those of the battery.

PS: I'm debugging exactly that problem on my Samsung Galaxy S3 as we speak.





== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:18 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:59:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Your nightmare has only just begun.

Hi Jeff,

While I abhor needlessly-multi-page howto articles, I read your reference:
http://instructables.com/id/Modify-a-cheap-USB-charger-to-feed-an-iPod-iPhone

What I learned was, for the Apple USB charging standard:
a) 2.0 V on D+ and 2.0 V on D- puts out 500 mA on the power pins
b) 2.0 V on D+ and 2.8 V on D- puts out 1 A on the power pins

It was also interesting that the author chose 220 Ohm & 330 Ohm resistors
because the ratio is what matters, more so than the resistance itself.

What I learned from this is to make sure that I buy a charger that is
to the EU or Chinese standard, and not to the Apple standard.

Also, I realized, from this article, that I *probably* could convert
my dual port chargers from having one port at 1.0 A and another at 2.1 A,
to both ports being at 2.1A, but, that's just a hunch at this point.





== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:26 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:59:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Also note the 3.1A charging current:
> <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331119653295>

I couldn't figure out what the "N/A" meant, versus the "A" on
that device, but, I do agree, 3.1 Amps on each port simultaneously
is six amps of power (if it really can do that) out of a cigarette
lighter socket!





== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:30 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 17:26:56 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> 3.1 Amps on each port simultaneously is six amps of power
> (if it really can do that) out of a cigarette lighter socket!

OOps. Six amps of current (not power!).

The power would be 6A x 5V = 30 Watts!





== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:42 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 07:59:10 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Note that there is no law demanding that standard chargers be used.
> Well, it took about a year, but it finally arrived:

Hi Jeff,
I read that article with interest:
http://theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2297365/eu-announces-compulsory-common-charger-standard

One the one hand, you don't want government to stifle innovation with
enforced standards; but on the other hand, are the non-conforming Apple
chargers really innovative?

I suspect the "think different" part of the Apple non-standard chargers is
merely an attempt to force unsuspecting users to buy specific hardware.





== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 11:17 am
From: Leviatan


Danny D'Amico, pensando en voz alta, dice:

> And, certainly, you're not going to get a 1.5Amp charger for 3 bucks
> as someone here had proposed. If you can, please post the URL to the
> site and I'll buy a dozen! :)

http://dx.com/s/usb+car+charger+1.5A

Enjoy!

--
Un saludo,
Alberto






== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 1:08 pm
From: Bert


In news:MPG.2d5ac5965ab3c0c989696@news.eternal-september.org Seth
Goodman <seth_news@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Any Motorola charger ...

In the bad old days, Motorola played games with their phones and
chargers (jumpers and/or resistors in the phone-end of the USB cable)
such that the phones would only charge from Motorola chargers or
accurate clones. They wouldn't charge from a PC USB port unless Motorola
drivers were installed.

These days, I'm pretty sure any charger with an adequate current
capacity will work.

--
bert@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN




== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 4:30 pm
From: James Grady


On Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:59:30 -0500, SC Tom wrote:

> The output of the charger really doesn't matter, as long as it meets the
> minimum requirements of the device

Which is as much as 1.5 Amps!

So, it /does/ matter.

A lot!

Most usb chargers can't deliver anywhere near that current.

Some can, of course. So, it matters a LOT to get those that can!





== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 6:46 pm
From: gregz


Bert <bert@iphouse.com> wrote:
> In news:MPG.2d5ac5965ab3c0c989696@news.eternal-september.org Seth
> Goodman <seth_news@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Any Motorola charger ...
>
> In the bad old days, Motorola played games with their phones and
> chargers (jumpers and/or resistors in the phone-end of the USB cable)
> such that the phones would only charge from Motorola chargers or
> accurate clones. They wouldn't charge from a PC USB port unless Motorola
> drivers were installed.
>
> These days, I'm pretty sure any charger with an adequate current
> capacity will work.


Wasn't that long ago, my flip phone was like that.

Greg




== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 7 2014 5:17 am
From: "SC Tom"




"James Grady" <jgrady@not.for.spam.calmes.edu> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.02.07.00.30.30@not.for.spam.calmes.edu...
> On Tue, 04 Feb 2014 08:59:30 -0500, SC Tom wrote:
>
>> The output of the charger really doesn't matter, as long as it meets the
>> minimum requirements of the device
>
> Which is as much as 1.5 Amps!
>
> So, it /does/ matter.
>
> A lot!
>
> Most usb chargers can't deliver anywhere near that current.
>
> Some can, of course. So, it matters a LOT to get those that can!
>

You obviously missed the last part of the sentence. Let me quote it for you:
"as long as it meets the minimum requirements of the device". If you're
going to take one line out of context, at least be accurate about it :-)

Even if a device calls for 1.5A, it will still be charged by a .5A output.
It'll just take a lot longer to do so, and would probably need to be turned
off in order to complete the charge cycle. I have an Asus tablet that
"requires" a 2.1A charger, but will still charge to completion with my .7A
phone charger, if I turn it off and leave it plugged in overnight. I have
done that a few times when I inadvertently forgot to pack the tablet
charger.
--
SC Tom






== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 7 2014 5:37 am
From: "SC Tom"




"Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.02.06.17.07.23@is.invalid...
> On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 17:55:55 +0100, Leviatan wrote:
>
>> Linear or switched voltage regulators, as the ones used in phone
>> chargers,
>> are mostly self current limiting, so there is no risk, just that moto-G
>> will tabe a bit longer to charge.
>
> I understood that the risk of the Moto-G sinking too much current is
> minimal (since I assumed it had current-limiting circuitry to prevent
> battery overcharging).
>
> However, if the Moto-G takes, say, 1 Amp to just run whatever is running
> on it (admittedly high, but this is just a worst-case scenario), and if
> the USB port is only a typical 500mA port, then the battery will slowly
> discharge.
>
> In practice, if you're charging your Moto-G, most of the time you're not
> also using it, except in the case of GPS and bluetooth and dashcams which
> is what you'd be using in a car.
>
> So, the key problem is that the *car* charger has to be beefy just to
> keep up with the demands of the phone, and not just those of the battery.
>
> PS: I'm debugging exactly that problem on my Samsung Galaxy S3 as we
> speak.
>

There are a couple of games that when I run them on my Asus Memo Smart10,
the charger mostly "breaks even", or the battery will still slightly
discharge while on the charger. It's a 2.1A charger (came with the tablet),
but still won't keep up. One that comes to mind first is "Real Racing". My
guess is between the processing power required, the graphics, and the
constant wifi connection, it's more than the poor battery can handle :-(
If I disable the wifi (airplane mode), it'll do OK, but when off charger,
it's still a drain on the battery. I usually reserve playing that game when
near an outlet :-)

I haven't played the game while in the car, but I have a USB car charger
that works fine when using the GPS travel program. It has a dual output of
1A and 2.1A. I got it from Amazon a while back for my old Creative Labs MP3
player, but it works great for my phone and tablet now.

<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003PU01M4/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1>

I don't recall what it cost them, but it wasn't as expensive as it is now
:-( I see there's a new daul-2.1A one available.
--
SC Tom






== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 7 2014 6:09 am
From: "SC Tom"




"Danny D'Amico" <danny@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2014.02.06.17.30.26@is.invalid...
> On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 17:26:56 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:
>
>> 3.1 Amps on each port simultaneously is six amps of power
>> (if it really can do that) out of a cigarette lighter socket!
>
> OOps. Six amps of current (not power!).
>
> The power would be 6A x 5V = 30 Watts!
>

I find it strange that the power points in my Escape are fused at 15A, and
my lighter is on a 40A fuse! I kinda would have thought it would be the
opposite.
--
SC Tom







==============================================================================
TOPIC: How do I get Voice-to-Text back in my Android 4.3 for SMS texting?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/73bd95f6d9063aaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:12 am
From: jurb6006@gmail.com


I don't know if this applies to you but a friend of mine said he had that for a time and later found out it was only a free trial and then they wantted money. He no longer has it.




== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 10:03 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 15:43:25 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> But what free app do I download to get *back* that little microphone?

Googling, I first thought that little microphone which is now missing
in the keyboard might have originally come from "Google Voice Search":
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.voicesearch

But, "Google Voice Search" is already installed, and has been installed
since before I upgraded from Android 4.2.1 to Android 4.3.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7323/12347746965_fb97022d25_o.jpg

Q: What is the app that adds a microphone to the standard keyboard?





== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 10:41 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 09:12:07 -0800, jurb6006 wrote:

> I don't know if this applies to you but a friend of mine said he had that
> for a time and later found out it was only a free trial and then they
> wantted money. He no longer has it.

Well, if I knew what had put the little offline microphone into the
default keyboard in the first place, I could look up the terms and
conditions - but I don' think it was trialware because the voice-to-text
microphone was on the phone for more than a year.

That keyboard microphone disappeared about the time I upgraded to Android 4.3.

What I've done, in the meantime, is just now I installed a dozen purported
offline voice-to-text applications.

Maybe one of those will bring the microphone back.





== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 11:29 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 18:41:08 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> Maybe one of those will bring the microphone back.

None of these voice-to-text apps worked, so, something is missing:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5548/12348644203_c7fe100b04_o.gif

Each app gave a different (but similar) error:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2835/12348936623_2c9096ec75_o.png
- Sorry, you have no app for voice recognition.
- You have no app to recognize speech, sorry.
- Recognizer not present.
- Recognition service is not available.
- Not a system app. Illegal installation.
- Voice recognition is not installed.

Perhaps the most detailed error message was:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2827/12349496964_8cf9023379_o.jpg
Runtime Error: No activity found to handle
intent {
act=android.speech.action.RECOGNIZE_SPEECH
(has extraqs)}

But, since "Google Search" *is* installed, what are these error
messages trying to tell me is actually missing?






== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 11:34 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 19:29:26 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

I'm googling for the error:

RuntimeError: No activity found to handle intent {act=android.speech.action.RECOGNIZE_SPEECH (has extras)}

and I'm finding it's a common one.





== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 11:49 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 19:34:05 +0000, Danny D'Amico wrote:

> RuntimeError: No activity found to handle intent
> {act=android.speech.action.RECOGNIZE_SPEECH (has extras)}

I'm pretty sure something is missing, but what?
Here's all the "google stuff" I have installed:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3832/12349659853_fb72dfb18f_o.png

- Gmail
- Google Play Books
- Google Play Games
- Google Play Movies & TV
- Google Play Music
- Google Play Store
- Google Text-to-speech Engine

Do you recognize what is missing?





== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 2:04 pm
From: Ben Ritchey


Danny D'Amico <dannyd@is.invalid> wrote:
> All of a sudden, I lost the little microphone icon in my default SMS
> text application on the T-Mobile Samsung Galaxy S3 on Android 4.3.
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7373/12344496284_046d7946d1_o.png
>
> This is an important omission, since I do offline speech-to-text
> SMS text messages (I almost never use my fat fingers to text).
>
> To get back that offline microphone app, I suspect I need to *install*
> something, because it *was* there from the beginning - but now it's
> (suddenly) gone!
>
> But what free app do I download to get *back* that little microphone?

Check settings, language & input, mine works (v4.0.4) and is set to default
to Google keyboard, Google voice typing is set to automatic ...should place
a microphone on keyboard when you tap input area!
--
Ben aka cMech http://cmech.dynip.com




== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 7 2014 3:23 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 22:04:56 +0000, Ben Ritchey wrote:

> Check settings, language & input, mine works (v4.0.4) and is set to
> default to Google keyboard, Google voice typing is set to automatic
> ...should place a microphone on keyboard when you tap input area!

I've hit every single button or option in Android 4.3 "Language & Input".

They moved it, in 4.3 to:
Settings->My Device->Language and input->Default->Google Keyboard

I even tried removing and adding "Google Keyboard", all to no avail.

Once Google Keyboard is selected in "Language and input", clicking
Google Keyboard->Settings->Voice input key=checked

There's nothing else about the audio or microphone input to the
keyboard.

I think my problem is that neither I, nor anyone else, knows how
audio works on Android. Something fundamental is missing or corrupt.





== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 7 2014 5:18 am
From: RobertMacy


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 11:41:08 -0700, Danny D'Amico <danny@is.invalid> wrote:

>> ...snip...
>
> Maybe one of those will bring the microphone back.
>

get a gmail account with voicemail capability. the telephone number you
get converts voice to text and emails you the message.

it's free, too. doesn't do a bad job on numbers, but it's a hoot on
dialects.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pioneer SX-R9
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9364e6bb610f5555?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 11:09 am
From: alexoldman226@gmail.com


Service Manual available here http://www.kallhovde.com/pioneer/tricomp/Audio/SX/SX-R9_RRV1937.pdf

Sorry it took 15 years to reply!

Alex





==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to properly feed GPS navigation prompts into a bluetooth earpiece?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ff70bbb8288b005e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Feb 6 2014 9:18 pm
From: isw


In article <pan.2014.02.06.15.31.38@is.invalid>,
Danny D'Amico <danny@is.invalid> wrote:

> Can someone explain how to force GPS navigation into my bluetooth earpiece?
>
> I don't understand why BT GPS Naviation works for my bluetooth speaker,
> but it doesn't work for my bluetooth earpiece.
>
> Debugging on my Samsung Galaxy S3, I see something strange (to me):
> http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7402/12344497644_7135787e7b_o.png
>
> What I found, is there are (apparently?) two different kinds of BT!
> a) Motorola Roadster (*connected to phone and media audio*)
> b) Samsung HM1300 (*connected to phone audio*)
>
> Hmmmmmm......
> Are there two *different* kinds of bluetooth audio (media & phone)?
>
> If that is the problem, how do I get the right kind of GPS audio into my
> bluetooth earpiece just like it does with my bluetooth visor speaker?

I'm not sure if it's relevant, but here's something I learned a while
back:

I have an older Sony-Ericsson cellphone that has a music player
function. The phone also has BT, and I have an earbud that works fine
*for telephone conversations*. I had a reason for wanting to play music
through the BT earbud, but nothing I could do got it to work. The manual
says the music player will work with BT, so I called the "help" line to
find out what I was doing wrong.

Turns out that in order for the phone to play music via BT, the BT
headset *has to be stereo*. It would have been easy for the software
folks to just mix the two audio channels and send that to the BT in the
case that it was mono, but nooooo. They had to do it the stupid way and
just forbid the audio.

And according to S-E, there's no way around it; stereo BT or no audio
for you!

So the problem is actually just stupid programmers (or spec writers,
same result).

Maybe you're having the same problem?

Isaac




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 7 2014 3:18 am
From: Danny D'Amico


On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:18:28 -0800, isw wrote:

> Turns out that in order for the phone to play music via BT, the BT
> headset *has to be stereo*.

I don't understand that, unfortunately.
Seems unrelated.





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