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| John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Sep 29 09:54AM -0700 On 09/28/2014, 2:18 PM, Danny D. wrote: > We don't know how much the bridge & treehouse will weigh, but if it's > close to or greater than 28,000 pounds, then we have a problem. > How much do you think a treehouse will weigh? Have you allowed for a windstorm where the trees may be moving in opposite directions to each other? Temperature affects the length of the wire rope, have you allowed for maximum and minimum temperatures? You want some sort of shock absorption built in too. Old antennas used porcelain blocks for joining cables, the porcelain would shatter under unexpected loads giving the cables a chunk of extra slack to avoid their collapse by stretching beyond limits. May I suggest you find an engineer to look over your design? I'm not one, but can think of a few ways for this to go wrong already including the clamps failing etc. Suspension bridges are close to what you are building - read up on the design criteria for these. Seat of the pants design may give you another Tacoma bridge... John :-#)# PS, it looks like a lot of fun though! |
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com>: Sep 29 07:25PM John Robertson wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:54:57 -0700: > Have you allowed for a windstorm where the trees may be moving in > opposite directions to each other? > Have you allowed for maximum and minimum temperatures? Only that each cable supports 14,000 pounds! :) > You want some sort of shock absorption built in too. Hmmmmmm.... The cables don't "give" a little when you walk on the bridge that would be hanging below it? > May I suggest you find an engineer to look over your design? The neighbors are all owners of companies and people with graduate degrees, so, they *are* engineers (of all types). The one having the most fun with the design is the retired carrier fighter pilot. :) > Suspension bridges are close to what you are building Yes. I'm told the catenary will turn into a parabola once we hang the bridge off of it. Since the bridge starts uphill about 15 feet above the trail, it will be fun to just step onto the bridge, at the level of the trail, and then walk "downhill" level but going higher and higher above the steeply sloping ground, to get to the two smaller redwoods in the middle of the span. At that point, we will be in the "treehouse" which will have a deck and WiFi and a great open view of the mountains. Then, if we want, we can walk further to the *big* redwood, which will have sleeping quarters (hammocks and cargo nets) for the nights we'll spend there. It should be fun, once done, and I'll try to keep you guys informed; but I personally am not designing or building it; I'm just the free help (we all have Spanish nicknames when we do free labor. I'm "Rodruigo", and my wife's nom-de-labor is "Marisol", for example). I keep threatening that I'm gonna call OSHA on them if I fall or if they don't provide cold soda (the free soda has been warm, to date). |
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com>: Sep 29 09:41PM Oren wrote, on Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:31:43 -0700: > Just curious. Is there a torque spec for those clamps? Or ... I had forwarded this thread to the owner of the treehouse in the redwoods, who replied with the following ... ----------- People worry too much. I simply design for 10 times the expected load, and pay the premium. Trying to finely engineer the solution where torque and special fasteners are important is a way to save money, and I'd rather spend the money and not waste my time. I've never seen a malleable cable clamp. Drop forged ones are cheap, and I use more than normal anyway, not because I think they are needed, but because they help keep the cable from slipping out of place on the wood block spacers. The reason for keeping the U-bolt on the dead end of the cable is because the saddle has a lot more surface area, and thus does not reduce the strength of the cable as much as the U-bolt does. But they make dual-saddle cable clamps, for those who don't use the over-engineering approach I do. Each cable can support 7 tons, so the total weight of treehouse and occupants can be 14 tons. (Although there will be other supports besides the cable -- one end will rest on the ground, and another end will be anchored to the tree, and there may be other support cables used just to make installation and leveling easier.) If half of the weight is treehouse and the other half is people, we have 7 tons of treehouse possible (although the actual treehouse will probably weigh less than 1.4 tons fully furnished), and 7 tons of people (70 people, if they are all 200 pounds). I doubt we will ever have 70 people in the treehouse -- they'd be shoulder-to-shoulder. |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Sep 29 03:20PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:41:56 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >possible (although the actual treehouse will probably weigh less than 1.4 tons fully furnished), >and 7 tons of people (70 people, if they are all 200 pounds). I doubt we will ever have 70 people >in the treehouse -- they'd be shoulder-to-shoulder. My point was, if the clamps call for a torque spec, and we now understand they do - why not follow the details made by the manufacturers? I'd just feel comfortable doing so. Your friend can do as he pleases. I get the point of over building something. I've done hear for a patio cover on my house. Pick your poison :) |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Sep 29 04:02PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 19:25:42 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >wife's nom-de-labor is "Marisol", for example). >I keep threatening that I'm gonna call OSHA on them if I fall or if they >don't provide cold soda (the free soda has been warm, to date). It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard! -- "..,what is good is the front end if you don't have the back end"-- Kimberly Guilfoyle |
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com>: Sep 29 11:15PM Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0700: > It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard! I guess it's like calling an Asian an Oriental? Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway? The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards? (I don't know these things.) |
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com>: Sep 29 11:20PM Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:20:20 -0700: > Your friend can do as he pleases. > I get the point of over building something. The good news is that, if the whole thing collapses, *he* gets sued, not me! :) |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Sep 29 04:25PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:15:51 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0700: >> It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard! >I guess it's like calling an Asian an Oriental? Crazy Uncle Joe Biden? >Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway? >The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards? >(I don't know these things.) The Mexicans are offended. Ask one that knows some history or lack of. |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Sep 29 04:29PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:20:40 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >> I get the point of over building something. >The good news is that, if the whole thing collapses, *he* gets sued, not >me! :) But you are one of the conspirators in negligence, unwittingly. Neither can sue the clamp maker. (G) |
| Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>: Sep 29 11:38PM > Oren wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0700: >> It's an insult to call a Mexican a Spaniard! > I guess it's like calling an Asian an Oriental? No, that's pretty much correct (if rather dated). "Oriental" literally means somebody from "the East". Asia is usually defined as "East of the Urals". Both are somewhat vague terms with meanings that have changed over the centuries, but Wikipedia says the're pretty much the equivalent: The Orient means the East. It is a traditional designation for anything that belongs to the Eastern world or the Middle East (aka Near East) or the Far East, in relation to Europe. In English, it is largely a metonym for, and coterminous with, the Continent of Asia. Calling a Mexican a Spaniard is like calling somebody from the US "English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250 years. > Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway? > The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards? Either, both, maybe neither (it probably depends on the crowd). Regardless of whether it's insulting, it's incorrect. -- Grant |
| etpm@whidbey.com: Sep 29 04:42PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:41:56 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >possible (although the actual treehouse will probably weigh less than 1.4 tons fully furnished), >and 7 tons of people (70 people, if they are all 200 pounds). I doubt we will ever have 70 people >in the treehouse -- they'd be shoulder-to-shoulder. I hear that about over engineering stuff. When I was getting ready to pour the floor for my shop I calculated the concrete thickness for the various machines and then though about what happens if I move a machine and then what happens if I buy a heavier machine or one with a smaller footprint and so on. Then I realized how pointless this was in my situation, So I had the concrete poured to 7 inch minimum thickness, had fiber put in the concrete, and I put rebar and wire mesh in place before the pour. It's a good thing too because I later bought a lathe that covers 10 square feet with the base and sits on 4 9 square inch pads and weighs 8000 lbs. Eric |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Sep 29 05:15PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 23:38:14 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards >"English" or "British". Rather than being insulted, I think people >are just going to be puzzled over where you've been for the last 250 >years. Anything wrong with calling a 1980 Mariel Cuban prisoner a "Beaner"? They love black beans and rice. They didn't seem to be offended. -- Somtimes you just have a bad day at the dungeon |
| "G. Ross" <gwr95@comwest.net>: Sep 29 08:38PM -0400 Danny D. wrote: 8>< Snip > At that point, we will be in the "treehouse" which will have a deck and > WiFi and a great open view of the mountains. 8>< Snip You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this would be a place to escape all that stuff. GW Ross 1st Law of Thermodynamics: Go to class!! |
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com>: Sep 30 12:41AM G. Ross wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:38:51 -0400: > You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the beer. > Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this would be > a place to escape all that stuff. Good point, but, this *is* the Silicon Valley environ ... |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Sep 29 05:49PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:38:51 -0400, "G. Ross" <gwr95@comwest.net> wrote: >You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the >beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this >would be a place to escape all that stuff. The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further? |
| "Lew Hodgett" <sails.man1@verizon.net>: Sep 29 06:29PM -0700 "Danny D." wrote: > Only that each cable supports 14,000 pounds! ---------------------------------------------- In days of yore I worked as a design engineer for heavy duty steel mill and foundry equipment, but that was then and this is now. For designs involving steel cable and human safety, the basic safety factor applied was 5. IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit. Dynamic loading would apply another 50% derate. IOW, 2,800*50% = 1,400 pounds for dynamic loads. Based on the posts I have seen, your group needs some serious help before people get hurt or worse. Lew Hodgett, PE Retired |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Sep 29 09:31PM -0400 On 9/29/2014 7:15 PM, Danny D. wrote: > Who is insulted when I equate Mexico with Spain anyway? > The Mexicans? Or the Spaniards? > (I don't know these things.) I think everyone's offended, now days. And you hurt my feelings by writing that. . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org . |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Sep 29 09:32PM -0400 On 9/29/2014 7:20 PM, Danny D. wrote: > The good news is that, if the whole thing collapses, *he* gets sued, not > me! :) Does PRC have more attorneys, or Mexicans? . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org . |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Sep 29 09:34PM -0400 > bought a lathe that covers 10 square feet with the base and sits on 4 > 9 square inch pads and weighs 8000 lbs. > Eric Sounds like my elementary school lunch room monitor woman. We used to call her Bubbles. . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org . |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Sep 29 09:35PM -0400 On 9/29/2014 8:49 PM, Oren wrote: >> beer. Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this >> would be a place to escape all that stuff. > The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further? With your antenna that high, can't you pirate a signal from a neighbor? . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org . |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Sep 29 06:57PM -0700 On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 21:35:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon >> The WIFI is how one orders more beer delivery. Can I help you further? >With your antenna that high, can't you pirate a >signal from a neighbor? Who manages the network? |
| John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Sep 29 08:35PM -0700 On 09/29/2014, 5:38 PM, G. Ross wrote: > You keep talking about WiFi. More important is a refrig for the beer. > Why would anyone want WiFi in a treehouse. I would think this would be > a place to escape all that stuff. Hmm, well with two separate cables your power requirements are fine, just run them on 24VAC @ 50A (120VAC @ 10A equivalent) and then use step up transformer or AC to DC regulators to power everything in the tree house. No unsightly wires! John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@gmail.com>: Sep 30 03:37AM Lew Hodgett wrote, on Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:29:57 -0700: > IOW, 14,000/5 = 2,800 pounds as the basic design limit. Times two cables, which is 5,600 pounds, at least. :) |
| Wayne Chirnside <faux@notthere.com>: Sep 29 08:09PM On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:12:25 -0700, jeffreyscottarnold wrote: > Hopefully someone knows what's going on. I don't have a ton of tapes, > but would like to transfer my few remaining home videos before retiring > the format forever. Thanks. My take on that is a friction pad, just a piece of felt often glued to a copper spindle brake wrapped around the spindle. At least that's what I've most often seen with that symptom. A bit of felt glued back inside the brake will fix it easily in most cases. OTOH you say it's a combo TV -VCR and those a royal PITA to take apart and put back together, so much so I refuse to work on any combos myself. YMMV |
| mike <ham789@netzero.net>: Sep 29 02:49PM -0700 On 9/29/2014 1:09 PM, Wayne Chirnside wrote: > OTOH you say it's a combo TV -VCR and those a royal PITA to take apart > and put back together, so much so I refuse to work on any combos myself. > YMMV Been a long time, but, if memory serves... There's a light pipe that pokes thru that hole in the bottom of the tape. There's a sensor on the edge of the tape. As I recall, mine had that symptom when there was some gunk on that sensor blocking the light. |
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