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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jan 05 09:09AM -0800 >What's the added surface temperature? >Add that to the filament temperature. >What's the percentage increase in filament temperature?   Dunno and I don't have an easy way to measure filament temperature. What I do know is that if I insert an overpowered incandescent light bulb in my marginally ventillated Ledu desk lamp, it will burn out fairly soon. The fixture has a sticker on the lampshade inscribed with: Caution: To reduce the risk of fire, use 75 watt type A lamp or smaller. There's no indication of exactly what will catch fire.   >More likely, it shortens the life of the phenolic socket and switch.   The socket is mostly ceramic, although the insulator might be phenolic. I can't see the switch. The wiring is covered with heat protecting sleeving. The insulation might deteriorate from long term overheating but looks like it will survive nicely with normal use.   My guess(tm) is that the 75 watts is mostly from the UL testing, which certifies that the appliance will not start a fire or electrocute the owner. UL testing does not test for appliance lifetime or even survival. I'm not familiar with how UL tests such things, but I suspect it's something simple like burying the light in newspaper. I couldn't find any data on incandescent bulb lifespan versus operating temperature.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Klay Anderson <klay@klay.com>: Jan 05 09:34AM -0800 On Sunday, January 4, 2015 7:02:37 PM UTC-7, Arfa Daily wrote:   > it is polychromatic light. It also doesn't seem as good at producing 'even' > street lighting as LPS or even HPS is, if you can get past the yellow colour > of those types.   I've been a regular visitor to Hong Kong since 2010 and just returned from the worlds largest LED lighting show again in October. I import commercial retrofits that are years ahead of what is available (or "hawked") here in the US. As such, I have quality products and I'm aware of the crap that is out there. My background is in lighting, electronics, television and cinema and I'm well aware of color temperature and lumens. Unfortunately, the customer whose heart is in the right place is usually a victim in cases like you describe. The hacks that sell LED retrofit by-and-large have no clue as to what options are available as they only re-sell what some distributor (or DIY store) has in stock. There are success stories but most likely they are due to dumb luck and not any engineering. Don't get me started on their lack of optical knowledge, lumens, color temperature or the relationship of rods and cones to pupil lumens, CRI, and the horrible spectral response of HPS lamps. I have relations with over 30 vendors in China and I can't tell you how cool and well-made the lamps are becoming.   Here is a brief overview of light and the eye:   Cones and Photopic vision- The central part of the eye is the fovea that is rich in a type of cells called 'cones'. Cones are responsible for color vision and are involved in vision during bright light. This is called Photopic vision. Rods and Scotopic vision-Rods are sensitive to dim light and are active during low light intensity conditions. Rods cannot perceive color. Vision due to rods is 'black and white.' Light measuring instruments measure Light intensity in Lumens - considering only the response of the cones. Thus, the Lumens measured by a light meter are also called Photopic Lumens. In conditions of low light intensity entire vision is due to rod cells (scotopic vision). In medium light intensity (conditions as are often found under street lights and in homes) vision is called Mesopic vision and is due to both rods and cones. Using 'Photopic Lumens' to describe light intensity in such an area grossly underestimates the light intensity as it totally ignores the contribution of rod cells to vision.   And I hate CFLs, too.   Yours truly,   Mr. Klay Anderson, D.A.,Q.B.E.

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jan 05 09:48AM -0800 On 01/05/2015 3:06 AM, Huge wrote:   > Please don't include me in "the rest of us". I too think CFL lighting is > very poor, and have switched back to incandescents in a few places (I > imagine we're about 30% CFL, 30% halogen and 30% GLS (incandescent)) now.   10% sunlight?   John ;-#)#     -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

bob <sound@inetnebr.com>: Jan 05 02:15PM -0600 On 1/2/2015 8:56 AM, Arfa Daily wrote: > EE Times article that came to me by email today   > http://www.electronics-eetimes.com/en/the-big-lie-about-led-lighting.html?cmp_id=7&news_id=222923405   > Arfa Well, i can totally see that. Part of the reason is NOT the LED's themselves, but the CAP's. If there is a modern multinational cartel these days, its NOT oil but the manufacturer of small capacitors. They build these dam things to fail in a few years anymore. Between the elevated temps they operate at and lack of quality guts, capacitors are the weak link. And that includes LED lights because they use them in the power supplys.   Last year, i bought a bargain CFL lamp for $1 at the dollar store. Worked for maybe a hour them ZBOOOM! TOOK it apart and sure enough, capacitor guts all over.   It seems most modern LCD tv's have a life of two or three years then they go haywire. I was all ready to get a new Sharp LED set before the first of the year on sale and was about the push go, then figured i better do some research first. Pages and pages of it failed soon and the manufacturer would not help. I'm sure capacitors are one of the major reasons for that also.   i just saw some 40W LED bulbs at a ACE US hardware store for $5.99 on sale. almost got one, but held off for now. Its hard to beat the simplicity of a incandescent lamp.   bob

Tim Watts <tw_usenet@dionic.net>: Jan 05 08:37PM On 05/01/15 20:15, bob wrote:   > i better do some research first. Pages and pages of it failed soon > and the manufacturer would not help. I'm sure capacitors are one > of the major reasons for that also.   I have 3 Samsung screens:   42" TV, circa 2005, running as well now as the day it was new;   20" (ish) computer monitor, 2006 ish, still good, maybe the backlight is a tad dimmer than it used to be;   20" ish TV, circa 2008, still perfect, using it now.   So Samsung seems reliable.

Leif Neland <leif@neland.dk>: Jan 05 09:57PM +0100 Rod Speed udtrykte præcist: >> away the ones that have failed.   > And yet cars are in fact MUCH more reliable now even tho they have a lot more > components than they used to have.   My Yaris ran on 3 cylinders. First I changed spark plugs, because that what usually worked on old cars. But even with a gap of 1.5mm, the spark was fine. So I hooked up the OBD-2 reader: Engine misfire cylinder 1. I exchanged two "spark plug caps" which is really the ignition coil and some electronics, one unit per cylinder. Now "Engine misfire cylinder 3" So a "new" used unit from a junk yard gotthe car running again. The car only had run 460000km, not sure when, if ever, the spark plugs had been changed.   So new cars are MUCH more reliable.   Leif   -- Husk kørelys bagpå, hvis din bilfabrikant har taget den idiotiske beslutning at undlade det.

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>: Jan 06 09:26AM +1100 Leif Neland <leif@neland.dk> wrote   > My Yaris ran on 3 cylinders. First I changed spark > plugs, because that what usually worked on old cars. > But even with a gap of 1.5mm, the spark was fine.   Because of all those other components that old cars didn't have.   I haven't even bothered to change mine after 10 years.   > So I hooked up the OBD-2 reader: Engine misfire cylinder 1. > I exchanged two "spark plug caps" which is really the > ignition coil and some electronics, one unit per cylinder.   Very unusual way to do things.   > running again. The car only had run 460000km, not > sure when, if ever, the spark plugs had been changed. > So new cars are MUCH more reliable.   Yep. Because they have vastly more components.

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>: Jan 06 02:24AM "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message news:cgubooFnch2U1@mid.individual.net... > Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote just the > puerile shit that always pours from the back of it when its got done like > a fucking dinner, as it always is by everyone.   Everybody who matters knows exactly who I am. You are just not one who *does* matter Rod. The email address is valid. I'm sure if you were clever enough to be able to look it up, you could get me right down to a street address. As for me writing puerile shit, the words pot, kettle and black come to mind. Most of what you write is *total* shit that no one wants to hear, and frequently tell you so. But you are so full of yourself and your opinionated crap, that it all goes over your head. Much like certain other of your countrymen, as soon as anyone dares to call you out on your mindless pontifications, you just revert to type, and start screaming bucket-mouthed abuse. Why don't you just do everyone a big favour, and piss off for another six months like you often do. And where are you when you do disappear ? In jail, with any luck ...   Arfa   - or Geoff, if you prefer

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>: Jan 06 02:28AM "Huge" <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message news:cgv9i5Fu4thU2@mid.individual.net... > imagine we're about 30% CFL, 30% halogen and 30% GLS (incandescent)) now.   >> Things change.   > Not always for the better, or for the right reasons.   +1 on each of your points   Arfa

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Jan 05 09:31PM -0500 On 1/4/2015 10:37 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: >> Phil Hobbs   > 100 watt incandescent bulb on a desk lamp? Doesn't that get rather > warm and possibly hot enough to shorten the life of the bulb?   Not in the 20 or so years I've been using them. Of course, they were made onshore, which helps.     > This is what I've been using for close work: > <http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/slides/luxo-flood.html> > (Oops. I just noticed it's a Ledu, not a Luxo.)   Brr. Ledu is a crappy knockoff of Luxo. I got one by mistake, and it rapidly went into the trash. Trust me, the $200 a real Luxo costs is a bargain in the long run.   "Equivalent watts" is a crock. A real 100W bulb puts out about 1690 lumens, so my desk lamps are probably well north of 2500.   Highly recommended, if you have a couple of hundred 100W incandescents stashed in a cupboard like mine. ;)   Cheers   Phil Hobbs     -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics   160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510   hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>: Jan 06 02:37AM "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message news:cgucf0Fnh3nU1@mid.individual.net... > a shorter life than the incandescent it replaced. Pigs arse it does. > <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed > where it belongs>   Oh you stupid stupid man. Do you even understand what the word "interesting" means ? No, of course you don't, because you aren't ...   I didn't post any article. I posted a *link* to an article written by someone else. I never said I agreed with it. I never said that I disagreed with it. I never made any comment about the reliability of cars, or indeed any system with greater or fewer components in it. The trouble with you is that you like the sound of your own voice too much. You latch onto just about every post that's made, and start spouting your half-arsed opinions about stuff that you often clearly understand nothing at all about. You also get completely wrong ideas in your empty head about what other people have said, or attribute things that *have* been said, to the wrong poster.   Again, twat ...   Arfa

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jan 05 06:39PM -0800 Arfa Daily wrote:   > > puerile shit that always pours from the back of it when its got done like > > a fucking dinner, as it always is by everyone.   > Everybody who matters knows exactly who I am.   ** Yeah - the grumpy old guy with a cigar hanging out his mouth...     > You are just not one who *does* matter Rod.   ** Many folk believe that "Rod Speed" is not an actual person - but a program written by a demented psycho code scribbler bent on revenge.   See this link for an example of what I mean:     http://www.sensationbot.com/jschat.php?db=rodspeed     .... Phil

Phil Hobbs <hobbs@electrooptical.net>: Jan 05 10:29PM -0500 On 1/5/2015 5:42 AM, mike wrote: > Add that to the filament temperature. > What's the percentage increase in filament temperature?   > More likely, it shortens the life of the phenolic socket and switch.   Phenolic socket? Dear me, you need to get a better class of lamp. ;) The Luxos are all ceramic and metal, with glass fibre sleeves on the wiring and two layers of air-spaced metal shield between the bulbs and the switches.   Cheers   Phil Hobbs   -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics   160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510   hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>: Jan 06 02:36PM +1100 Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote just the puerile shit that always pours from the back of it when its got done like a fucking dinner, as it always is by everyone.

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>: Jan 06 02:39PM +1100 Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote >> lots more components in the LED light than in the incandescent light it >> replaced, that that was absolutely certain to guarantee that it would >> have a shorter life than the incandescent it replaced. Pigs arse it does.   <reams of your puerile shit any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it belongs>

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jan 05 10:10PM -0800 On 01/05/2015 12:15 PM, bob wrote: > sale. almost got one, but held off for now. Its hard to beat the > simplicity of a incandescent lamp.   > bob   As usual, heat is the enemy. Reading the technical specs for caps is enlightening. They are rated usually at something like 2,000 to 5,000 hours at their rated temperature. So an 80C cap will die after something like 2000 hrs at 80C or 4000 hours at 50C and 10000 hours at 40C (not looking it up!), whereas a 105C cap will last 10000 hours at 85C, etc. So, the better the grade of cap the longer it will last in warm to hot environments. And there is the equivalent resistance and inductance to consider as well. Some caps are much more tolerant of 50/60hz and others are better at 20,000hz. Selecting those takes time and the cost accountants slip in at some point...   John :-#)#   -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jan 05 11:32PM -0800 John Robertson wrote:     > As usual, heat is the enemy. Reading the technical specs for caps is > enlightening. They are rated usually at something like 2,000 to 5,000 > hours at their rated temperature.   ** Usually that number include operation at rated ripple current too.     > So an 80C cap will die after something > like 2000 hrs at 80C   ** I constantly see large can electros rated at 85C running operating in a 95C ambient that are 30 years old and still fine. Brand is LCR made in England, used in Marshall valve amplifiers and placed right next to the E34 output valves.     > looking it up!), whereas a 105C cap will last 10000 hours at 85C, etc. > So, the better the grade of cap the longer it will last in warm to hot > environments.   ** 105C electros are pretty much industry standard these days.   Some of them last a long time and some do not.   It has more to do with ripple current and quality of manufacture than anything else.     > And there is the equivalent resistance and inductance to > consider as well.   ** Low ESR caps have proved to be the most unreliable of the lot - cos so many Asian makers got the chemistry wrong.   Inductance is however a non issue, electros of similar physical size and lead arrangement have the same inductance - usually not more than 25nH.     .... Phil

F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com>: Jan 06 06:46PM +1100 Jeff Liebermann wrote:   >> <http://afterdeadline.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/begging-the-question-again/?_r=0>   > Please put carrets around URL's so that the Usenet server doesn't > reformat it by wrapping the lines.   Please post definition of "carrets" as entering it in many ways in google fails to find answer.

F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com>: Jan 06 06:55PM +1100 Jeff Liebermann wrote: > <http://begthequestion.info> > My appologies. I'll instruct my proof reader to check for such > grammatical errors.   Are those sideways less than more than symbols Carets? I thought that ^ is a carete and would such a caret before and after the URL work?

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jan 05 10:07AM -0800 On 12/31/2014 4:15 PM, amdx wrote: > until you find what tweaks you! I think he played video games instead.   > Any Ideas?   > Thanks, Dad   I hired my son when he couldn't find a job after graduating with a BA in Economics. He doesn't live at home so he pays rent, has a steady girlfriend, does everything one expects when living on their own, and he is learning a trade. I don't expect him to continue in my field for too much longer, but in the meantime we can talk and he has a breather while he figures out his priorities. Plus he gets training in repairing equipment, practical computer applications (online store), dealing with customers, etc.   Not every parent has that luxury - being able to hire/train one's offspring - so it is not a panacea, but it is at least helping him.   John :-#)#   -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Jan 05 12:59PM -0600 On 1/5/2015 12:07 PM, John Robertson wrote:   > Not every parent has that luxury - being able to hire/train one's > offspring - so it is not a panacea, but it is at least helping him.   > John :-#)#   Ya, just because you got a college degree doesn't guarantee a job. (Obama economy) We can put him to work in our small business, however, all he will learn is what it's like to deal with the public! Oh, and maybe he would figure out he could earn 4 x as much if he got a degree. Mikek   --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jan 05 10:16PM -0800 On 01/05/2015 10:59 AM, amdx wrote:   > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > http://www.avast.com   Nothing to do with Obama, that situation was set up by Bush - if you want to get political. Of course in Canada folks blame Harper (current PM) or Trudeau (70s - 90s popular PM) or Mulroney (brought in Free Trade with USA - Ha!). So, you can blame anyone you like.   However politicians can only do what the people approve, be it Bush, Harper, Obama, Mendela, Putin...otherwise we kick them out and get some new 'leader' to show the way the population is heading. Scary, eh?   Larry Niven (right wing SF author) kinda had it right where his cleverest aliens - the Puppeteers' - leader was called "The Hindmost" as they lead for the rear, in other words they followed the crowd.   John :-#)#     -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jan 05 08:49PM -0800 Got this tape echo machine at work. Got tubes. Old. Tape runs and it was a fresh job for me. I see it has bias and audio mixing with it. It passes signal but does not echo. I think the tape is simply bad.   Anyway, it has no pinch roller. The tap goes about 1430 degrees around it though. That is apparently enough.   However O think this arraingement would cause faster tape deterioration due to more bending. Isn't the straightest path the best ? (for the tape itself of course)   It is kept under tension by a springed idler. There are no tape pads. It has a magnetic erase head between a fixed and spring loaded idler or tensioner. Lke a turing tape guide. The capstan is way over on the right side. There are like five heads, electronic heads not the PM erase head. I am probably going to change the tape soon and see what happens. I got some old ½" that is not in great shape. It will deteriorate quickly but I do know that it actually records. The stuff on there really looks funny. Red not brown. Of course that doesn't rally mean anything but that it is unusual a little. Thing is that it is not really opaque.   I am actually disappointed by the thing not hav ing a speed control. What, they didn't have eddy current motors in the 1940s ?   Cheapskates.

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jan 05 09:35PM -0800 > Anyway, it has no pinch roller. The tap goes about 1430 degrees around it though. That is apparently enough.   > However O think this arraingement would cause faster tape deterioration due to more bending. Isn't the straightest path the best ? (for the tape itself of course)   > It is kept under tension by a springed idler. There are no tape pads. It has a magnetic erase head between a fixed and spring loaded idler or tensioner. Lke a turing tape guide. The capstan is way over on the right side. There are like five heads, electronic heads not the PM erase head.     ** You just MIGHT be describing Charlie Watkins' famous little horror - the "WEM Copycat" first released in 1958.   http://manningsmusicals.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/wems-007-800.jpg   A truly horrible machine that just barely worked, it's output was riddled with AC hum, tape noise (from the permanent magnet erase) and serious wow & flutter plus amplitude modualtions.   Charlie was too cheap to admit it needed a pinch roller.   Modern 1/4 inch tape normally refuses to run on a WEM Copycat as the surface friction is just too low. You could try fitting a shrink plastic sleeve over the capstan if you like.     > I am actually disappointed by the thing not hav ing a speed control. What, they didn't have eddy current motors in the 1940s ?     ** Some very cheap echos used simple, DC brush motors and others had two speeds - but the first machines to feature decent, BLDC variable speed motors were made by Roland of Japan. Models include the RE101, RE201, RE301 and deluxe versions were the RE501 & SRE555.   A fairly large BLDC motor branded "Pioneer" provided direct capstan drive and continuously variable speed range of about 5:1 with varying compensation applied to EQ circuits as tape speed changed to keep the response flat. There was also an NE570N compander IC to reduce tape noise to quite low levels.   The erase head was ferrite cored and the record and play heads had stainless steel face plates that simply never wore out.   Nice machines, fixable and well worth fixing even today.     .... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jan 05 06:17PM -0800 dave wrote: > low distortion for the price. (Typically 0.04 to 0.02 % THD, depending > on level and frequency). You can get a guaranteed one for $125 or less. > Or wait for a bargain and grab one for $50.     ** You meant a Heath IG-18 right?   Yeah - that looks pretty good, except for the lack of a decent frequency dial.   My generator has a 3inch aluminium disk that turns with the frequency pot, marked across 290 degrees, turned by a 6:1 reduction drive using ball bearings.   I also have a ancient, valve Wien Bridge generator that uses a large, dual tuning gang coupled to a 30:1 reduction worm drive - as you might imagine, frequency adjustment is very silky and resolution is genuinely infinite.   Lotsa bench generators use dual tuning gangs for frequency, cos they give ultra smooth, noise free adjustment that lasts for - unlike most dual pots.   But watch out if you try to float the internal circuitry and just leave the metal case safety grounded, it does not work. It is essential that that case and shielding around the tuning gang all be at the same potential or supply frequency leakage from the power transformer secondary injects straight into the oscillator and causes major amplitude modulation.   .... Phil

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