- What is that whiteish stuff on bad batteries (ruins stuff)? - 7 Updates
- Why does a keyboard need to go to sleep. - 9 Updates
- 4 channel oscilloscopes - what are they good for? - 5 Updates
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Aug 14 06:09PM -0400 On 8/14/2015 10:02 AM, Thane wrote: > metals used in the battery contacts in the device you're trying to clean > up. > Thane Vinegar is a mild acid, not much danger to metals. Rinse after, to remove the dissolved ionic solids. -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . . |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 14 03:12PM -0700 On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 04:32:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs >It's a mild organic acid dissolved in naptha, or something close to that. >Cheers >Phil Hobbs Before DioxIT, it was Cramolin. Both concoctions had an assortment of formulations and a checkered history. Both have also been cloned at various times. The acid involved is oleic acid, which is food safe and is used in a variety of cosmetic potions and nostrums: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleic_acid> <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=oleic+acid> However, there were some problems. If it wasn't wiped off, it would slowly attack copper and brass contacts. This was deemed a bad thing and the oleic acid was removed from the formulations leaving only mineral oil and no weak acid. Cramolin MSDS: <http://store.caig.com/core/media/media.nl?id=808&c=ACCT113328&h=3f8d8512c835e9a69f64&whence=> The MSDS for Caig DeoxIT is listed as a trade secret concoction but is generally presumed to be the same as Cramolin. If this is correct, then using DeoxIT to "clean" battery contacts just coats the contacts with a layer of mineral oil. Caig has a large selection of cleaners and lubes, many of which contain some manner of unspecified oxide remover available. That would be quite suitable if we were removing an oxide. Assuming an alkaline battery, the white residue is mostly potassium carbonate (K2CO3) and some potassium hydroxide (KOH) electrolyte. Just about any acidic cleaner will remove that. I use 409 household cleaner and smear it around with an acid brush. You can tell it's working by the foam and bubbles produced. When the white crud has been removed, just wipe it clean. Both chemicals are soluble in water, so you don't really need an acid, but I like to see the foam and bubbles. After that, smearing the contacts and PCB with mineral oil (DeoxIT) does nothing useful becaue the contacts don't need a lube job. The history of Cramolin, DeoxIT, ProGold, etc. <http://www.siber-sonic.com/electronics/caig.html> The topic appears quite often in the antique radio forums: <http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/search.php> Plug "DeOxit" into the search box. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| John-Del <ohger1s@aol.com>: Aug 14 03:32PM -0700 On Friday, August 14, 2015 at 10:03:01 AM UTC-4, Thane wrote: > I've used a Qtip dipped in tap water to remove the most of these > deposits. Yep. Nothing removes battery spooze faster than plain old water. |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 14 10:15PM -0700 On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:32:12 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bornfeld >> You want to let it soak in for a while, and using a wooden skewer or >> similar to dislodge any caked material is good... >Would urine work? Only in the morning: <http://www.chemcraft.net/acidph2.html> In a pH balanced body. urine is slightly acid in the morning, (pH = 6.5 - 7.0) generally becoming more alkaline (pH = 7.5 - 8.0) by evening in healthy people primarily because no food or beverages are consumed while sleeping. Whereas, during the day the body buffers the pH of the food and beverages consumed by releasing electrolytes and the pH level goes up. This process allows the kidneys to begin the elimination process slowly. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 14 10:25PM -0700 On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:15:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote: > buffers the pH of the food and beverages consumed by releasing > electrolytes and the pH level goes up. This process allows the > kidneys to begin the elimination process slowly. Also, if you're a meat eater or cannibal: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine#pH> A diet which is high in protein from meat and dairy, as well as alcohol consumption can reduce urine pH, whilst potassium and organic acids such as from diets high in fruit and vegetables can increase the pH and make it more alkaline. So, if you're going to clean up your leaky battery residue with urine, do it in the morning, after a steak breakfast. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Phil Hobbs <hobbs@electrooptical.net>: Aug 15 11:57AM -0400 On 8/14/2015 8:05 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote: >> that. > I don't think I have ever heard of an "organic acid". > Any examples of mild organic acids you know of? Stearic acid, oleic acid,.... Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net |
| MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Aug 15 05:42PM +0100 In article <55CF6184.5030106@electrooptical.net>, hobbs@electrooptical.net says... > Stearic acid, oleic acid,.... deoxyribonucleic acid... (Not sure about the "mild", though!) Mike. |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>: Aug 14 09:30PM -0400 Online I see for sale a wireless keyboard/mouse, and it says about it "Auto Sleep And Wake Feature This keyboard also features an auto sleep and auto wake mode. If there is a long period of inactivity, the keyboard will automatically go into a sleep mode. To exit sleep mode, press any key." Why does it have any need to go to sleep. Why would it use any power if no one is pressing a key? This is not a cordless phone that waits for phone calls, whose battery drains even when not in use. (For that matter. why don't cordless phones have on/off switches. They can go without charging for about 2 days. If you could rely on the ringer in the other room and turn the cordless phone OFF, they wouldnt' need a charge for 10 days or more. ) This is the item. Before you buy it, there's a newer version now. http://www.amazon.com/FAVI-FE01-BL-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad/dp/B003UE52ME/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1439598701&sr=1-4&keywords=wifi+keyboards Thanks. |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>: Aug 14 09:27PM -0400 Online I see for sale a wireless keyboard/mouse, and it says about it "Auto Sleep And Wake Feature This keyboard also features an auto sleep and auto wake mode. If there is a long period of inactivity, the keyboard will automatically go into a sleep mode. To exit sleep mode, press any key." Why does it have any need to go to sleep. Why would it use any power if no one is pressing a key? This is not a cordless phone that waits for phone calls, whose battery drains even when not in use. (For that matter. why don't cordless phones have on/off switches. They can go without charging for about 2 days. If you could rely on the ringer in the other room and turn the cordless phone OFF, they wouldnt' need a charge for 10 days or more. ) This is the item. Before you buy it, there's a newer version now. http://www.amazon.com/FAVI-FE01-BL-Wireless-Keyboard-Touchpad/dp/B003UE52ME/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1439598701&sr=1-4&keywords=wifi+keyboards Thanks. |
| mike <ham789@netzero.net>: Aug 14 08:05PM -0700 On 8/14/2015 6:30 PM, micky wrote: > a sleep mode. To exit sleep mode, press any key." > Why does it have any need to go to sleep. Why would it use any power > if no one is pressing a key? Sleep IS not using "much" power. The only difference is that the first keystroke may take a fraction of a second to switch the clock and get everything running again. Don't worry about it. It's doing what you want. This is not a cordless phone that waits > can go without charging for about 2 days. If you could rely on the > ringer in the other room and turn the cordless phone OFF, they wouldnt' > need a charge for 10 days or more. ) My cordless phones do go 10 days or more. I have two phones and one charger. I just swap them every couple of weeks. |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>: Aug 15 07:08AM -0400 In sci.electronics.repair, on Fri, 14 Aug 2015 20:05:49 -0700, mike >> Why does it have any need to go to sleep. Why would it use any power >> if no one is pressing a key? >Sleep IS not using "much" power. So since the keyboard isn't using much power except when someone is pushing a button, it's always asleep the rest of the time, is that right? > The only difference is that the >first keystroke may take a fraction of a second to switch the clock >and get everything running again. A remote control needs a clock? >Don't worry about it. It's doing what you want. What are you, a 1950's doctor? >My cordless phones do go 10 days or more. >I have two phones and one charger. I just swap them every couple of >weeks. Do they have on-off switches. If they go two weeks without one, they'd 10 weeks with one. |
| c4urs11 <c4urs11@domain.hidden>: Aug 15 11:51AM On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:08:59 -0400, micky wrote: > A remote control needs a clock? This device is more complex than a remote control. It sends keystrokes to the computer but also receives data. When you connect the device, the computer will send configuration data such as data rate, auto-repeat time, state LEDS, mouse speed, acceleration etc. When you press for example CapsLock, the keyboard sends the caps command to the computer, then receives the request to toggle the CapsLock LED. All that activity needs the RF section to be powered and active, so it makes sense to provide a sleep mode that paces down this activity. Cheers! |
| Andrew Rossmann <andysnewsreply@no_junk.comcast.net>: Aug 15 07:22AM -0500 In article <v67usapi59vn59sr8irj2mi7sl5uvgclkv@4ax.com>, NONONOmisc07 @bigfoot.com says... > >first keystroke may take a fraction of a second to switch the clock > >and get everything running again. > A remote control needs a clock? I don't think he means a clock as in telling the time. It's clock in a more general form of a timing signal to run the processor. -- If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying! All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!! http://home.comcast.net/~andyross |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>: Aug 15 08:25AM -0400 In sci.electronics.repair, on 15 Aug 2015 11:51:58 GMT, c4urs11 >so it makes sense to provide a sleep mode that paces down this >activity. >Cheers! Thanks. And thanks everyone for their help |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 15 08:10AM -0700 It scans, as in sequential pulses tto the switches. they don't really change states much unless a key is pressed but insid the processor thigs are chaging states. That means capacitanc is loading it down, even though there is no resistive load. Stop that process and it cools down and pulls less power. The world is getting into "green" and using/wasting less energy. they are of the mond that if a million people save a milliwatt we have collectively saved a kilowatt. Engieers, seriously, sit there and figure out how to save that milliwatt. it is partly PR and partly the governments. I hear the almost made it illegal to sell plasma TVs in the EU because they are so damn power hungry. AND GUESS WHY. Remember about the scanning pulses and the capacitance ? Well plasma TVs are all about scanning and capacitance. I mean that is ALL they are about and in spades. A couple hundred volts at high speed applied to highly capacitive loads. It literally pulls as much juice as a old deflection yoke and high voltage circuit would. and another ting when it comes to a keyboard, look on the bottom and see iff maybe it has a battery compartment. Seriously, some of them, even high end ones, some have a place where you can stick like eight or ten "D" cells. Do you know what good alkaline "D" cells cost ? And even in the absece of that, most of them run off DC so they know it might be run off of batteries someday. that makes it a feature, actually for the customer. It is not so much that you are going to save 0.0003 cents on your electric bill next month, it might be that $15 you save on batteries next month. |
| MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Aug 15 05:40PM +0100 In article <169b8779-b32c-48f5-bd6d-86aee95a6424@googlegroups.com>, jurb6006@gmail.com says... > they are of the mond that if a million people save a milliwatt we > have collectively saved a kilowatt. Who's going to be able to detect that against their megawatts of background? Mike. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 15 01:25PM Hi all, I've currently got 13 scopes of various types; most of 'em vintage. I like it that way, old stuff. But it's far too many scopes in all honesty, all taking up valuable space. One of the candidates for selling-off is a 4 channel Philips job (plain analogue). I can't remember ever having had a need for examining 4 signals at once, but thought I'd better check with the Panel first, just in case its a rare and valuable beast and nothing else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon as I no longer have it around. So... get rid or hang on? |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Aug 15 07:53AM -0700 Only 13 ? Hell that ain't enough to scare a half a coulomb. Only thing more than dual trace we got around here is the Tek 7000 series. Even on the 7603, the screen is barely big enough to actually measure anything with more than two traces. The 7834, it is even harder. But you don't use four traces to measure amplitude, it is for other things. Right now I got one of those other things but all that is on premises is dual trace. We are in the prcess of scrutinizng a newly acquired HP 339A distortion analyser. At the moment there is a dual trace on the generator output and the secndary generator output. And then we wanted to see the "monitor" output of the HP just for kicks. So I had to break out another scope for that. Three traces required. But this is THE FIRST TIME in my life I have ever had to do it. When you go beyond two traces, you usually are looking at logic levels. Many scopes only have two full blown channels but add another couple that do not have the gain or the full blown attenuator and all that. They are more for looking at logic levels and so forth, not complex signal analysis. Well it is, but not analog signal analysis. In such scopes it is important to be able to force the chopped mode at higher sweep speeds. Soetimes timing is everything and why else would you wwant to quad trace anything but to see the timing between pulses or whatever ? These scopes that autoatically make the choice for you, like it is chopped up to a certain sec/div and then switches to alternate piss me off. I would rather have a little bit of anomoly on the screen than to not be able to see the absolute timing between two pulses or signals or whatever. But they do that because of a not so swell design. The chopper oscillator, though the speed neeeds to be controlled, but NOT be phase locked to anytihng, especially the incooing signal. But it does happen because it feeds through the power supply, ground or even the air. Bett design can prevent this, but that takes effort, and MONEY. More capcitors and decoupling resistors. More careful attention to the ground paths. It gets difficult and that is why cheaper scopes just don't let you chop at the higher sweep rates. In other words, Elenco, Hotachi, whoever, they are saying "If you want a fucking Tektronix, buy a Tektronix". However, some Tektronix models might do it as well, I can't say because to do so I would have to be familiar with EVERY model they ever made, and the only guy who ever came close was Jim Yanik (NRA member). He used to post here and worked for Tektronix for about 350 years. This guy, you post like "I have a 7613 and it is... ... ..." describe the problem and he would come back with something like "Likely R456, but it could be a shorted C421 and that is a bitch to get to". So, what is the model number, how much do you want for it and where the hell are you geographically ? I know someone who might be interested if it is a good deal. That is if you can get by with only 12 scopes. |
| Phil Hobbs <hobbs@electrooptical.net>: Aug 15 12:03PM -0400 On 8/15/2015 9:25 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote: > else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon > as I no longer have it around. > So... get rid or hang on? Channels 3 and 4 are good for when you've blown up 1 and 2. ;) (I have a 3-channel HP scope that I bought off eBay.) Lots of times multiple channels are useful in looking at logic or serial buses such as SPI (clock, data, chip select, DAC output). Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 15 09:26AM -0700 On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 13:25:15 +0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom >I've currently got 13 scopes of various types; most of 'em vintage. I just counted my collection at 15 (including those that are not currently functional). I win. >I like it that way, old stuff. But it's far too many scopes in all honesty, >all taking up valuable space. Yeah, I know the feeling. This is from 2011. Only one scope has moved since the photo was taken: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/scopes-to-be-fixed.jpg> >the Panel first, just in case its a rare and valuable beast and nothing >else will do for some obscure application that may well crop up as soon >as I no longer have it around. I've used a 4 channel scope as a makeshift digital logic analyzer. Somewhat useful for catching glitches. The only time I really needed 4 channels was when I was working on a 3 channel TDOA (time difference of arrival) radio direction finder. I displayed the various delays on each channel, with the 4th used for probing the circuitry. >So... get rid or hang on? What model? What condition? Duz it all work? (Scraped from eBay listings): <http://www.theoscilloscopeshop.com/philips-oscilloscopes.html> Also check the ebay sold items for your unspecified model scope. Unless it's something valuable or useful, I suggest that you sell it. I can't even give away my old analog scopes. The few I've given away to starving students are usually returned after a few weeks with comments like "too big" or "not enough features". Everyone seems to want a (Rigol) DSO after they've played with one. For myself, I use an oscilloscope program on my PC and an app on my tablet more often than my various bench oscilloscopes. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Aug 15 04:29PM On Sat, 15 Aug 2015 07:53:50 -0700, jurb6006 wrote: > that do not have the gain or the full blown attenuator and all that. > They are more for looking at logic levels and so forth, not complex > signal analysis. Well it is, but not analog signal analysis. Well, I had the case off this one a while back and all four channels appear 'fully-featured' in that respect so far as I can see. > and it is... ... ..." describe the problem and he would come back with > something like "Likely R456, but it could be a shorted C421 and that is > a bitch to get to". I remember Jim from s.e.d I think it was. I hope he's still alive and kicking. A very useful fellow to have access to indeed. > So, what is the model number, how much do you want for it and where the > hell are you geographically ? I know someone who might be interested if > it is a good deal. It's the PM3264 and I'm in the UK. I'd like to avoid packaging and international shipping if poss, so will try to off-load it locally before seeking an overseas buyer. I don't think these old analogues fetch much these days; 150 quid tops I would guess. Dunno what that is in your $$$$. > That is if you can get by with only 12 scopes. I want to get down to 3 *max* eventually, not counting the 2 rather exotic analogue storage scopes I have which I want to be buried with. No way am I selling those! |
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