- Dead Electrical - 19 Updates
- High technology - 3 Updates
- Speaking of fake electronics - 1 Update
| "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com>: Apr 05 10:20AM -0700 Out of the blue, I turned the ignition key and the started jerked and stopped. Next turn solenoid clicked only. After that no sound on turning key. No radio, panel lights, headlights, etc. My guess at this point is that there is a bad negative ground. No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall. Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Apr 05 06:04PM On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 10:20:37 -0700, Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney wrote: > Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. Have you got some dirt or oil/grease on the battery posts? That's what it sounds like to me. |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Apr 05 11:09AM -0700 On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:19:36 PM UTC-4, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote: > No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall. > Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter. > Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. They will be (typically) some sort of little black box mounted on the firewall, or somewhere near the main fuse box or battery, it may look like a fancy connector as well. But it will be there. There will be no such thing on the ground side. Only on the + side. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| etpm@whidbey.com: Apr 05 12:27PM -0700 On Tue, 5 Apr 2016 10:20:37 -0700, "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney" >No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall. >Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter. >Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. I just had a similar thing happen to my old Case backhoe. I turn the key and the solenoid only clicks. Checking the voltage at the starter when I try to start it the voltage dropped to about 2 volts. I suspected that the starter motor had shorted out internally. I was gonna pull it to test it and then my son gets down low so he can see the bottom of the starter. He found that the heavy copper strip that goes from the solenoid to the starter motor had been bent such that it was touching the motor housing. So there was my short and it only occurred when I attempted to start the backhoe. I figure a branch must have somehow poked its way up far enough to hit the starter motor when I was using the machine in the woods the other day. Eric |
| "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com>: Apr 05 01:12PM -0700 <pfjw@aol.com> wrote in message news:007dd25d-afe0-4347-8e3d-eda009c6ca14@googlegroups.com... On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 1:19:36 PM UTC-4, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote: > No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall. > Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter. > Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. They will be (typically) some sort of little black box mounted on the firewall, or somewhere near the main fuse box or battery, it may look like a fancy connector as well. But it will be there. There will be no such thing on the ground side. Only on the + side. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA Thanks, I looked and didn't see it yet. Hot battery terminal has one large and one small wire, both going directly to the solenoid relay mounted on the side wall. No voltage drop between battery post and relay connection. 3 others hot wired connected there on the same post go various places, but none go to anything that would have fuses, relays in it. Will keep looking for it. I'm suspecting the problem is in the ground circuit. Will attack that next. |
| "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com>: Apr 05 01:06PM -0700 "Cursitor Doom" <curd@notformail.com> wrote in message news:ne0un8$4vc$1@dont-email.me... > > Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. > Have you got some dirt or oil/grease on the battery posts? That's what it > sounds like to me. Posts are clean. New battery 2 months ago and cleaned good and check hot and neutral wires. |
| "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com>: Apr 05 01:15PM -0700 <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote in message news:8048gbp5ou8qqkgqa4tk0j0t37ecqe7tuq@4ax.com... > have somehow poked its way up far enough to hit the starter motor when > I was using the machine in the woods the other day. > Eric Thanks Eric. I'll check that here today. I replaced the solenoid & starter last week. Always careful with connections but as the wife says, I don't always notice everything.... |
| "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com>: Apr 05 01:16PM -0700 "Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com> wrote in message news:S7GdnZ9Ef_o5bp7KnZ2dnUU7-WvNnZ2d@earthlink.com... Out of the blue, I turned the ignition key and the started jerked and stopped. Next turn solenoid clicked only. After that no sound on turning key. No radio, panel lights, headlights, etc. My guess at this point is that there is a bad negative ground. No ongoing symptoms before today. Battery is new and checks out as fully charged. Voltage OK at the solenoid relay on the inside wall. Searched last night for a main fuse or fusible links. Wiring diagrams show them but do not tell where to look for them. I assume close to the battery -- will spend some time now looking and TS with a meter. Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. === Update from today.... I turned the key this morning and it started right up. When I got back home, I turned it off and on a few times and started each time without hesitation. This morning the clock showed 5:30. When power is restored, the clock starts at 12:00. This means that the power was restored to the clock about the time I stopped troubleshooting yesterday. Last thing I did yesterday before locking it up was try to start it and all was dead, including panel, radio, lights, etc. Unless slamming the door jiggled a connection, I don't know what would have caused it. It would not be a heat-related problem because the engine was never started that day. I don't want to go driving around town not knowing what the problem is but I'm stumped now. So I guess what I'm looking for is some things to check the next time it won't start. |
| Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: Apr 05 01:32PM -0700 Had something similar happen to a car. The battery was fine, the car wouldn't start. Turned out the battery cable had corroded below the battery where it didn't show - maybe got some acid drip from the battery? I dunno. Anyway, the way we found it was checked voltage under load. There was plenty at the battery but not at the end of that wire. |
| hrhofmann@att.net: Apr 05 01:48PM -0700 You need you wife or girlfriend or someone to turn the ignition key on and off while you check the voltage at the battery itself, and then going away from the battery to the chassis on the negative side and if ok those two places, go from chassis ground to the hot lead down the line from the battery toward the load. It must be either that the battery voltage drops under load, or that there is a high resistance somewhere in the circuit. You get to play Dick Tracy to find it. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Apr 05 09:32PM On Tue, 05 Apr 2016 13:48:45 -0700, hrhofmann wrote: > It must be either that the > battery voltage drops under load, or that there is a high resistance > somewhere in the circuit. You get to play Dick Tracy to find it. Let's just hope for his sake it's not an intermittent fault (as it's beginning to sound like) - they can make any fault 10x harder to find. |
| M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Apr 05 05:58PM -0400 In article <zbCdnYefce1OgZnKnZ2dnUU7-NnNnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Snuffy-Hub- Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com says... > Update from today.... > I turned the key this morning and it started right up. When I got back home, I turned it off and on a few times and started each time without hesitation. > This morning the clock showed 5:30. When power is restored, the clock starts at 12:00. This means that the power was restored to the clock about the time I stopped troubleshooting yesterday. Last thing I did yesterday before locking it up was try to start it and all was dead, including panel, radio, lights, etc. Unless slamming the door jiggled a connection, I don't know what would have caused it. It would not be a heat-related problem because the engine was never started that day. > I don't want to go driving around town not knowing what the problem is but I'm stumped now. > So I guess what I'm looking for is some things to check the next time it won't start. sure sounds like rusted body joints. Lots of cars depend on the body being very connected for the ground. the Door slamming gives it away. Jamie |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Apr 05 05:51PM -0500 > You need you wife or girlfriend or someone to turn the ignition key on and off while you check the voltage at the battery itself, and then going away from the battery to the chassis on the negative side and if ok those two places, go from chassis ground to the hot lead down the line from the battery toward the load. It must be either that the battery voltage drops under load, or that there is a high resistance somewhere in the circuit. You get to play Dick Tracy to find it. Just to expound on the key off and on. If indeed the solenoid pulls in, THEN is when you need to find the fault, current needs to flow to find to find the bad connection. If you have 0.06 ohms of resistance in a battery/starter circuit and the starter tries to draw 200 amps, there is 12 volts dropped across your battery connection.* You won't be able to measure 0.06 ohms. Mikek * yes, I'm aware if you have 0.06 ohms of resistance at the battery connection the starter can't draw 200 amps, but... |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 05 04:30PM -0700 You didn't mention the make and model, that might help. That the lights and radio were dead is telling. Some cars haqve the battery + going straight to the starter motor and the solenoid is mounted right there and also serves to engage the gear to the flywheel. It sound like that is where your bad connection is. Older GM cars were like that. Over the years the vibration can make that nut loosen up. Now that you got it to connect by jarring it (the door) and welded it together (by actually starting it, the connection might stay good for some time. However it is still unreliable and unreliable shit in cars is no good. since you say you don't see any fusebox looking type of thing nearby, the connection point may well be right at the starter. I would crawl down there and undo it and redo it. Maybe brush up the connections a bit. I would say to test it by trying to turn them but they might be welded together so that test could easily yield a false negative. (no pun intended this time) If you redo those connections, remember to disconnect the negative battery cable first. When spark fly from something like that they can hurt your eyes, burn your clothes, and if there's ant gasoline laying around you might find out just how good your insurance is. |
| Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com>: Apr 06 09:24AM +0800 On 6/04/2016 2:04 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> Any other suggestions? Thanks in advance. > Have you got some dirt or oil/grease on the battery posts? That's what it > sounds like to me. So when is grease on the terminals bad ?? |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 05 07:39PM -0700 >"So when is grease on the terminals bad ??" Before it is connected. After it is connected grease helps keep the elements away but you don't want it between the mating surfaces. |
| "Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Apr 05 10:42PM -0400 "Rheilly Phoull" <rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote in message news:PrCdnTUO-6Ix-ZnKnZ2dnUU7-b-dnZ2d@westnet.com.au... >> Have you got some dirt or oil/grease on the battery posts? That's what it >> sounds like to me. > So when is grease on the terminals bad ?? When it gets between the battery post and the clamp. If it is on the outside it is fine. |
| Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: Apr 06 05:42AM -0700 On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 10:41:13 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote: > > So when is grease on the terminals bad ?? > When it gets between the battery post and the clamp. > If it is on the outside it is fine. Conventional wisdom says when you tighten it down the grease gets squeezed out and there is direct metal to metal contact. Whether that's based on data or not I don't know. But that's the way mechanics do it successfully. |
| "Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Apr 06 11:00AM -0400 "Tim R" <timothy42b@aol.com> wrote in message news:76f2085f-e124-4dd0-a687-7e9f3948cbb5@googlegroups.com... > out and there is direct metal to metal contact. > Whether that's based on data or not I don't know. But that's the way > mechanics do it successfully. Some mechanics can not be educated. If the grease is any good,not all of it will be squeezed out so there is direct metal contact. Think of it, the purpose of grease is to prevent metal to metal contact. Clean the posts and clamps where they mate and put the clamps on. Then put the grease or whatever you want on after that. |
| Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid>: Apr 05 09:46PM +0100 On 28/03/16 14:00, MJC wrote: >> http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/CCW > Counterclockwise (widdershins) was at the top of my interpretations > too... Gun ref, me thinks. -- Adrian C |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Apr 05 09:37PM On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 17:39:11 -0500, dangerous dan wrote: > It makes me a little sad and nostalgic. it's really not that bad. Some old things are making a glorious comeback. Who'd have thought vinyl records of all things?! And a lot of people are ditching their smartphones in favour of vintage cellphones with no fancy features as they're pretty much immune from malware and hackers. Will old film cameras be next I wonder? |
| Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: Apr 06 05:43AM -0700 On Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 5:40:44 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: > Who'd have thought vinyl records of all things?! Doh. P.T. Barnum, of course. |
| "dangerous dan" <dangerous@dan.com>: Apr 05 01:38PM -0500 > sure the claims are accurate. But something as common and obviously > fake I would think eBay would stop allowing to be sold on their site. > Eric There are a lot of videos on YouTube about fake batteries and how to detect them. From what they say Amazon and eBay both sell counterfeit batteries. |
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