- Fluke 8060a meter interconnect strip - 7 Updates
- lead free solder - 6 Updates
- H8s Security (1000$ as a compensation ) - 1 Update
- Membrane keypads again. - 3 Updates
- PICTURES: Advice requested Whirlpool Duet Sport Washing Machine "popped" - 4 Updates
| ohger1s@gmail.com: May 02 11:06AM -0700 > The link posted by an earlier poster shows problems with leakage below the main chip/socket only. If I knew that would be the only problem to address, I'd pull the socket and try it. The problem is is that every individual solution requires undoing the display hardwire, so I'm trying to formulate a plan to effectively clean this in one shot. > John I pulled the main IC/socket and there's no sign of leakage on or under the socket pins or board. The capacitor leakage seems to be contained under the switch assy. I removed three variable caps which hugged the board and removed the power switch. Every other part is either high enough off the board not to be touched by a very shallow bath or would not be unaffected by one. Next plan is to give it a hot shallow bath of distilled water followed by a wash of IPA and a few hours in the hot box. I have other things on my bench right now so I won't play any more with this for a few days at least. John |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: May 02 11:14AM -0700 >Other than the shape of the boards, they're not much alike. >The 8060 has no flexible membrane circuit. Oops. I couldn't find any decent 8060a photos other than the repair article, so I guessed that they were the same from memory. Sorry for the misinformation. <http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8060a-repair/> >is is that every individual solution requires undoing the display >hardwire, so I'm trying to formulate a plan to effectively >clean this in one shot. Well, I may join you on this repair. I just found my long lost Fluke 8060a. About +1.5mv of residual reading on the 200mv scale. I'll drag it to my office, take some photos, and measure the Zebra strip resistance for you (probably tomorrow). Meanwhile, this might offer a clue as to the resistance; <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastomeric_connector> <http://www.fujipoly.com/usa/design-guidelines/89.html> Unrelated dumb question. The three case screws for this Fluke 8060A seem to have walked away. What's the thread designation so I can buy some replacements? There's plenty similar screws on eBay: <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fluke+screws> but none specifically for the 8000 series DMM. $1.50/ea including shipping. I'll probably do better at the hardware store Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in: <http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf> SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750 -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| ohger1s@gmail.com: May 02 01:57PM -0700 On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:14:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > Never mind. I found the type in the user manual on Pg 6-5 in: > <http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf> > SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750 You lost the screws, somewhere along the way I lost one of the push buttons. Too bad I can't get one of those in a hardware store! :) John |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: May 02 06:06PM -0700 >> <http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/8060a_3vimeng0200.pdf> >> SCREW,PH,P,THD FORM,STL,7-19,.750 >You lost the screws, I several large candy jars that are full of random hardware. I probably tossed the screws in one of them. It's easier to buy replacements than to excavate them from the jars. Needle in haystack. The local Ace hardware store didn't have any plastic screws. >somewhere along the way I lost one >of the push buttons. Too bad I can't get one of those in a >hardware store! :) You can get another carcass on eBay. Or buy one from the test equipment cannibals: <http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=fluke+dvm+switch+cover> Notice that the LCD display is starting to turn black along the bottom edge. Most of my various Fluke meters have the same problem. I tore my 8050a apart and tooks some photos and measurements: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/> This Zebra strip measures about 1K ohms: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg> while this one measures about 5 ohms: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-2.jpg> Measuring the resistance was a PITA. The problem was determining whether I was measuring the resistance of one contact, or a bunch of them in parallel. I didn't want to drag out the microscope, so I resorted to a trick. I placed the flat side of one DVM probe across a section of the strip so that it would connect to a large number of conductive strips. I then used a very sharp needle tip to make contact on the other side. It wasn't perfect, but I think it was good enough. More photos when I have time. Anything else you want photographed or measured? -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: May 02 09:10PM -0700 On Mon, 02 May 2016 11:14:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote: >8060a. About +1.5mv of residual reading on the 200mv scale. I'll >drag it to my office, take some photos, and measure the Zebra strip >resistance for you (probably tomorrow). Curses, foiled again. While tearing apart the meter, taking photos, and putting it back together, I managed to transfer enough blood, sweat, and tears onto the PCB and components to wreck the calibration and add some more leakage. Instead of +1.5mv of residual junk on the 200mv scale, I now have about -7mv of leakage. The next time I work on this meter, I'll remember to use latex or nitrile gloves. 90% alcohol and bake dry scheduled for next weekend. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| ohger1s@gmail.com: May 03 04:46AM -0700 On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 9:06:34 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > Measuring the resistance was a PITA. The problem was determining > whether I was measuring the resistance of one contact, or a bunch of > them in parallel. The conductors are *very* dense in this particular zebra strip and I'd guess that there's at a minimum 10 conductors presented across the large pads on the boards they make contact with, so I'd venture that if they're 5 ohms each and 10 or more are paralleled across the pads, a wire jumper is just fine. > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com > Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 No, I think I'm OK at this point. After it takes it's IPA bath I'll reassemble and see where I'm at. Thanks for the information! If the meter turns out OK, I'll probably pick up a DOA meter on ebay for parts, including the missing button. If the meter still is a bit wonky, I'll remove the switch pack and give it an ultrasonic bath. The bottom of my display looks exactly like yours. Are you sure this is abnormal? The bottom edge is where the round zebra strip contacts the LCD electrically on the back side, so maybe that thicker area is normal. The border around the entire LCD display is black although much thinner. John |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: May 03 08:29AM -0700 >the large pads on the boards they make contact with, so I'd venture >that if they're 5 ohms each and 10 or more are paralleled across >the pads, a wire jumper is just fine. Yep. I can measure the resistance from PCB pad to pad in that area if you want. However, it will need to wait a few days. Bizzeee. I had quite a struggle reassembling the LCD display. The LCD glass fits into a slot of sorts in the plastic frame that requires the Zebra strip to be compressed. Insert just the glass LCD plate first and use brute force to compress the Zebra strip. Then, slide in the plastic screen protector and frame. If anyone has a better way, I would be interested. > After it takes it's IPA bath I'll reassemble and see where I'm at. > Thanks for the information! The article at: <http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-8060a-repair/> (near the bottom) says to let it dry for a few hours after an alcohol bath. I've had the same experience. Alcohol absorbs moisture from the air and will dump this moisture onto the PCB during cleaning. It takes a while to evaporate. >If the meter turns out OK, I'll probably pick up a DOA meter on ebay >for parts, including the missing button. If the meter still is a bit >wonky, I'll remove the switch pack and give it an ultrasonic bath. I've destroyed a few two-way radios using a 10 watt ultrasonic cleaner. It tends to kill semiconductor devices with unsupported wire bonds to the chip. I suggest using a brush instead. A brush doesn't get under IC sockets and overhanging components, so I like flood the area with alcohol, let it sit for about 30 seconds, and blow it out with compressed air. Not the best way, but better than shaking the meter to death. I haven't done too many DVM's so I don't know what a solvent bath will do the rotary switch. >contacts the LCD electrically on the back side, so maybe that thicker >area is normal. The border around the entire LCD display is black >although much thinner. No, I'm not sure. My eyesight isn't that great any more. I've seen a much more extreme black edge smear on other Fluke LCD displays. Here's an 8020A display disassembled: <http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/mrmodemhead/media/Fluke%208020B/F8020B_018.jpg.html> It has a black border, but it's very different from the 8060a: <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Fluke%208060a/Fluke-8060a-LCD-1.jpg> You might be right as the black line seems rather consistent instead of the creeping black blob caused by case leakage. I'll put it under the microscope later and double check. This is what it *MIGHT* look like eventually: <http://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=31080&d=1260895739> <http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/recovery-of-an-old-fluke-8020a-with-a-bad-lcd/?action=dlattach;attach=5445> <http://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/just-got-my-'new'-multimeter-the-family-become-larger/?action=dlattach;attach=1305;image> Still looking for the missing case screws. No luck so far. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| "Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com>: May 02 07:09PM +0100 <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote in message news:74505f62-dfcc-44f8-a54c-60772513be68@googlegroups.com... >> made originally with Pb free. I do this all the time, never had a >> problem. > Me too, the amalgamate talk makes me wonder though. Reworking lead free with 60/40 sometimes gives a grainy finish that looks even more dodgy than the original lead free. When I was in TV repair, most Asian manufacturers had converted before most people in the UK had even heard of RoHS. (but it took the Asian manufacturers a lot longer to get it right). My introduction to lead free solder was a steady stream of TVs with bizzare random faults that defied any attempt at logical diagnosis - going over the soldering fixed them as if by magic. With Hitachi sets; you could push down on a component and the whole solder fillet would detach from the other side, that revealed a thin black layer of oxide on the copper. On Sony sets; the solder looked as good as lead free ever can - but going over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults. During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced repairs, and not many of those had anything to do with solder. |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: May 02 02:37PM -0400 In article <hJMVy.1172338$5R5.323195@fx33.am4>, gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com says... > over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults. > During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced repairs, > and not many of those had anything to do with solder. I had a RCA (think that was the brand) that had a classic case of bad solder around the tuner. This was in the days before the internet,but there was the FIDO net that I found the solution of the problem. Went over the solder around the tuner and it was good for about 2 years and then had to do it again. Not sure what kind of solder was used way back then as it was over 20 years ago. Seems that RCA had many solder issues around tht period of time. Should have been a total recall for them. Last thing I bought with the RCA name on it. |
| "Ian Field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com>: May 02 09:46PM +0100 "Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:MPG.319168591467246198969c@news.east.earthlink.net... > then as it was over 20 years ago. Seems that RCA had many solder issues > around tht period of time. Should have been a total recall for them. > Last thing I bought with the RCA name on it. AFAICR: RoHS came in about 96. It probably isn't law in America and Asia, but they have to comply if they want to export to Europe. Certification is expensive - and much more expensive if they also run a non RoHS production line, as they have to prove that cross contamination cant happen. Last time I checked - RCA had been taken over by the French Thomson firm. Last Hitachi I looked inside; the innards were made by the Turkish Vestel company - while researching servicing info; I learned that quite a few big name manufacturers stick their badge on the very same chassis I found. |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: May 02 06:06PM -0400 In article <z0PVy.1194992$5R5.1036694@fx33.am4>, gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com says... > Last Hitachi I looked inside; the innards were made by the Turkish Vestel > company - while researching servicing info; I learned that quite a few big > name manufacturers stick their badge on the very same chassis I found. That is one big problem for me. I never know who or where anything is really made. I was repairing some CB radios for friends around 1970 and found even then the same insides were put into different cabinets for different brands. Sometimes even the same color wires were used. The Brand names are often sold and moved to a different country so the quality may or may not be worse. Sometimes it gets as bad as the Jeep. From what I heard you almost need to know the day it was made to find out what kind of engine or transmission was used in it. |
| ggherold@gmail.com: May 03 05:25AM -0700 On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 2:09:22 PM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote: > over the soldering fixed over 90% of all faults. > During that time I routinely used 60/40 - I didn't get many bounced repairs, > and not many of those had anything to do with solder. Thanks Ian, I'm a bit confused by your response though. It's starts by saying 60/40 on lead free is dodgy, and ends by saying you had few problems when using it. George H. |
| N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: May 03 03:30PM +0100 > It's starts by saying 60/40 on lead free is dodgy, > and ends by saying you had few problems when using it. > George H. 60/40 on lead free is dodgy, PbF is dodgey, PbF on PbF is dodgey, SAC on PbF is dodgey, you do your own thing with fingers crossed and monitor for bouncers over the next few years. |
| Anai <diana.cmy@gmail.com>: May 03 03:33AM -0700 Hi T&E, I am keen to protect Hitachi H8-3064F flash eprom content. Would like to know if you have the procedure to protect H8 MCU and if so willing to share the knowledge? Regards Anai |
| bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: May 02 02:21PM -0400 > I have been known to use a silver-plated sewing needle, broken off to the proper length if copper would be too soft. They solder very nicely. > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA OK, so the mystery deepens a little bit. I was having trouble getting the shimming to work consistently, so I tried jumpering directly from the control wire to the underside of the PCB. Turns out that there's still a problem, even with the wire jumpered directly to the board. But when I pinch the wire junction in my fingertips, everything works normally. Pull-up resistor gone open on that line, maybe? |
| bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net>: May 02 02:31PM -0400 On 05/02/2016 02:21 PM, bitrex wrote: > directly to the board. But when I pinch the wire junction in my > fingertips, everything works normally. > Pull-up resistor gone open on that line, maybe? Yup, that was it. Pullup resistor on that pin has gone bad! |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: May 03 12:40AM +0100 "bitrex" wrote in message news:b2NVy.66828$Bn7.1297@fx26.iad... On 05/02/2016 02:21 PM, bitrex wrote: > directly to the board. But when I pinch the wire junction in my > fingertips, everything works normally. > Pull-up resistor gone open on that line, maybe? Yup, that was it. Pullup resistor on that pin has gone bad! I said that quite some time ago. R66 is most likely contrast or viewing angle adjustment. It might be a good idea to check all the pullup resistors (RA3) are all present and correct. Gareth. |
| Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: May 02 04:55PM On Mon, 02 May 2016 09:32:04 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote: > http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-MSA-Secondary-Arrestor-Protective/dp/B0019F6X3I > Whole house surge arrester: > http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Awhole%20house%20surge%20arrestor&tag=duckduckgo-d-20 Thanks for the suggestion of a whole-house surge suppressor. I do have a generator, which kicks in automatically as the power goes out here in California at least a dozen times a year (it's like living in a third world country). I'm not even counting the times the power goes out for seconds, where the generator doesn't even kick in, or only kicks in for a few seconds, the power is that bad from PG&E. So, the two-hundred dollar Amazon surge suppressor you listed looks reasonable (considering it would cost more than that to put MOVs on all the computers and electronic devices). I wonder how it works if I buy that two-hundred dollar part: http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-MSA-Secondary-Arrestor-Protective/dp/B0019F6X3I Or, if I buy the eighty-dollar part: http://www.amazon.com/WHOLE-LIGHTNING-PROTECTOR-Spike-Ender-Suppressor/dp/B003Z9S974/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1462207395&sr=8-4 Does the power company let me put it in myself? |
| Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: May 02 05:08PM On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:39:57 -0400, Tekkie® wrote: > Glad to hear the gray well water cleaned up. > Was the real problem ever determined? We can never be sure, but what we did was hike downhill from the spot the 500 foot well was dug. We hiked about 500 feet below that house and then we dug into the hillside (it's public open space, so, we just dug without permission with our hands). Since the hill is steep, there was only about six inches of top soil, which we kicked away with our boots, and we noticed that there was a wide expance of gray "mud" at that level. When we stopped for a moment to survey the area, we belatedly noticed a "band" of no vegetation at about the same level, crossing the mountainside along the isocline. Given that we kicked away the topsoil in a half dozen spots, where this band seems very localized (about 100 feet long and only about 6 feet to 15 feet in height), our *assumption* is that there is a band of mud that was mixed up with the Franciscan sediments 30 million (or so) years ago when the Pacific plate rammed into the edge of California. So, what we *think* happened is that the well drillers simply hit that "puddle" of gray mud at about 500 feet and that it took months to pump all that mud out from the pocket that the drillers were obtaining the water from. The funny thing is that just those two houses experienced that gray mud, which even the well drillers said was odd in our area, so, take everything we say with a grain of salt, but do realize there are a lot of engineers on this hell who have pondered this situation, so, that's the best we could have come up with. BTW, the 100-foot long 15-feet wide bridge and treehouse was put on hold because the storms blew it down. But we rebuilt it, and we're starting to build the 16-foot-by-16-foot treehouse itself, but this time, we anchored 1/2 inch steel cables to hold the treehouse *above* the 100-foot long bridge (Jeff Liebermann is always welcome to visit and I'll show it to him since he lives near by). If you want, I'll snap some pictures of the new setup, but, it will look really nice since it's 80 feet above the ground when it's all done. Right now, we have the 100-foot suspension bridge done, and we're starting on the treehouse itself, which is going to be floating above the suspension bridge about 75 feet from the hillside and about 25 feet from the anchor redwood and about 80 or so feet above the ground. |
| Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: May 02 05:23PM On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 06:54:05 -0500, CRNG wrote: > Well done. It's good to see that kind of community-based planning, > cooperation and action. Thanks for noticing that we all work together (as Jeff Liebermann would know, we stick together in the mountains). I called the "circuit board medics" at 800-547-2049 last week who said that an F28 on the Whirlpool duet sport washer is almost always a bad motor control board. This was before I had taken out the MCU and found it burnt, so, they're right. In hindsight, if I had only known that, I wouldn't have removed both the CCU and the EMI filter (I broke a wire on the CCU trying to get it out, for example). http://i.cubeupload.com/k1m0mV.jpg So, to help others. 1. If you get an F28 on the Whirlpool duet sport WFW8410SW, it's almost always the motor control board. 2. Wiggle the blue wires on both the motor control board and the CCU, but if that doesn't solve the problem, then you have to remove the motor control board. 3. To remove the MCU, you have to remove the 16 quarter-inch hexhead screws holding the back plate in place. 4. It's advised to also remove the lower cross brace (two more screws). 5. Some people remove the top of the shock absorber but I left it in place. 6. Then you have to cut or dig out the 4 tie wraps holding the harnesses to the MCU plastic covering. 7. Then you have to be a genius or a magician to put a screwdriver under the MCU white box and pry it up and then slide the MCU toward the front of the washer, to get it to release its grip. 8. Then you remove all the wire connections & pull it out from the bottom of the Whirlpool duet sport washer. 9. Once you pry open (and probably break) the crappy plastic (they really use really really really brittle plastic), you will see the scorch marks as shown below. http://i.cubeupload.com/k1m0mV.jpg At this point, you put the MMU back in its plastic case, and you remove the CCU (if desired) and you ship both of those boards to the rebuilders at "Circuit Board Medics" 800-547-2049x3) at your cost. They told me that USPS is the least responsible, so use UPS or Fedex. Exclusive of your costs to ship to them, the charges are: A. Exchange rebuilt MCU = $175 ($160 + $15 shipping + $100 core charge) B. Rebuild your MCU = $145 ($130 + $15 return shipping) They give you a 1-year warranty and they will test both boards for free, just in case my totally burned out MCU isn't the real problem. http://i.cubeupload.com/xRnjw9.jpg Here's a picture of my CCU, which seems to be in OK shape: http://i.cubeupload.com/zBAmq5.jpg Unless I find a better deal than ~$150, I think I'll have them rebuild my board. A brand-new washer is only four or five times that at about $600 to $800, so, it's an expensive enough repair to wonder if I should just buy a new washer instead. Nonetheless, I don't have much money lately (being retired is costing me more than I thought, especially with two families living under the same household now, with my sister and her kids living with me), so, I will just look to see if I can find a new board for around that same price. Otherwise, I'd suggest the rebuilders as they seem competent. |
| Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: May 02 05:36PM On Mon, 02 May 2016 10:19:21 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote: > You should really call your power company first to see if they'll supply > it and guarantee it. If you get your own, you'll need a licensed electrician to install it because he'll notify the power company that the seal has been cut off the meter mount. If you have an old style meter which requires a human meter reader to look at it, he/she/it will report the removal of the seal and this upsets power companies. If you have a smart meter, it will rat on you to the power company that it has been removed without permission. Now you can install your own whole house arrester on your main power panel without having to notify the power company but you should find out about the requirements for permits. If you're in a rural area, there are usually no permit Nazis around and nosy neighbors to turn you in. ^_^ It's a smart meter. Yes. It's rural. And I have a good rapport with my neighbors, where we have a rule, simply stated as "you can do anything you want on your property and I won't say 'nuthin" ... just stay off "my" property! Heh heh ... (everyone out here has guns except me, and the only reason I don't have 'em is because I'm worried about the kids getting a hold of 'em accidentally, since I know of a family that was affected by that happening). I like the idea of putting something on the circuit breaker itself. Here's what I have, as far as I know, given that all houses out here must have no wires attached to them within 25 feet of the house except underground: 1. I have my own dedicated power pole with a transformer on it about fifty feet from the house. 2. The underground feed pops up at the outside panel and I can see three inch-thick aluminium feeds (which I presume is 200 amp service at two phases) 3. The meter is a smart meter attached at the feed, outside the house. 4. The Generac inverter box is on the inside of the wall where the meter is. 5. There is a main circuit breaker panel outside at the meter which basically has only a few circuits on it as I recall (the pool, the well, and the big stuff like the garage 220 volts). 6. Inside there are two circuit breaker panels, one for the old part of the house and one for the newer part of the house). So, I would guess that I put the device in the circuit breaker panel outside. Is that correct? |
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1 Response to Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 21 updates in 5 topics
Im no expert. but I believe you just made an excellent point. You certainly fully understand what youre speaking about. and I can truly get behind that.
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