| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 05 10:24PM -0500 On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:40:25 +1100, Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >> are outdated, not the mechanical parts. >> Lot of us keep a car until repair cost exceeds book value. >I trade my cars in when I'm sick of them. I get rid of mine when they finally piss me off once too often. Usually after 10 years or so - and I buy them 5 to 10 years old. Sometimes significantly older. When I get sick of fixing them, or something comes up that I decide not to fix, it's adios amigo!! |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 05 10:27PM -0500 On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 15:53:43 -0800, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: >> Especially useful where you are working on one of those bastard bits of >> machinery where you have a mixture of metric and SAE bolts and nuts. >Are metrinch wrenches still available? Did anyone ever buy them? You mean Knucklbuster boltheadrounders?? |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Nov 05 10:28PM -0500 On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 19:58:14 -0500, "Steve W." <csr684@NOTyahoo.com> wrote: >> The ones I buy sure do! ;-) >Chains don't mean a lot when they drop them down to bicycle sizes with >small pins. Things stretch like cheap rope. Ever get involved with the two-chain 2.6 Chrysler MitsoShitty "hemi" 4? About 6 feet of chain that stretched like a cheap underwear elastic. |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 02:39PM +1100 On 6/11/2017 10:53 AM, The Real Bev wrote: >> Especially useful where you are working on one of those bastard bits of >> machinery where you have a mixture of metric and SAE bolts and nuts. > Are metrinch wrenches still available? Did anyone ever buy them? They are but I never bought any. I prefer proper ones. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 02:50PM +1100 > the combustion chamber under high heat and pressure, dissassociating > and causing detonation. Can run much higher compression ratio on > regular gas. I suggest you read up on the topic. You can have stratified charge and homogeneous charge in the same engine and these are the two different strategies employed. Typically, in the higher load range the charge is homogeneous in composition and the fuel is introduced into the combustion chamber during the intake stroke. Under part load conditions the engine uses charge stratification with the throttle valve fully open and fuel is injected during the compression stroke. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 02:51PM +1100 > Caster and camber are pretty well inter-related - changing one > changes the other on most non-strut suspensions. Struts are a whole > lot simpler. Changing camber on a strut still changes toe. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 02:59PM +1100 > Sometimes significantly older. > When I get sick of fixing them, or something comes up that I decide > not to fix, it's adios amigo!! I buy new and when anything more than tyres or brake pads is looming, it's bye bye. I'll work on other people's cars but I expect my own to be reliable and trouble free. When they are in excess of 150k kilometres, they are, as far as I am concerned, on their last legs. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 03:03PM +1100 > Ever get involved with the two-chain 2.6 Chrysler MitsoShitty "hemi" > 4? About 6 feet of chain that stretched like a cheap underwear > elastic. The go with any Mitsubishi timing chain system was to use *only* Mitsubishi genuine spares. None of the aftermarket crap was up to spec. -- Xeno |
| Frank <analogdial@mail.com>: Nov 06 04:05AM On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 02:42:59 +0000, RS Wood wrote: > and fluids, but not the six things above. > What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have > never done? I've never painted a car. I suppose some day I'll give rebuilding an automatic transmission a shot, but I've been lucky so far. I've done things ring and bearing jobs but everything is holding up better nowadays. |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 03:08PM +1100 On 5/11/2017 8:19 AM, RS Wood wrote: > I don't understand how it would work to lift the tire off the ground, so I > assume you just remove some of the weight off the tire. > But isn't the alignment spec with the tires weighted with full load? Normal load, not full load. > flare and which typically requires about five hundred pounds spread out > evenly - but I'm just talking about the generic loading of the suspension > here with a full tank and no people in the car.) You ask the customer how they use the vehicle and adjust loading accordingly. Load will alter camber readings hence also toe. Set the vehicle up with the load the owner normally places in it and you wont go wrong. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 03:09PM +1100 On 5/11/2017 8:19 AM, RS Wood wrote: > (I can't imagine what an adjustable wrench does that the properly sized > wrench doesn't do, unless you're climbing a lighthouse tower or something > where you just can't come down to get the right tool for the bolt.) You haven't worked on earthmoving machinery, that much is clear. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 03:10PM +1100 On 5/11/2017 8:19 AM, RS Wood wrote: > Computers are both cheaper and more reliable. > I understand the magic of computers getting more reliable but what's the > magic in cars getting more reliable? Getting rid of regular maintenance and tuneups seems to have done the trick. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 03:16PM +1100 On 5/11/2017 8:19 AM, RS Wood wrote: > I do agree that PCV valves and condensers and points and carbs required > maintenance basically yearly or every two years at the longest. > Now, they're "almost" lifetime parts because they don't exist. The fuel system *still exists*. It just no longer looks like a carburetor. > I'll agree with you that engines seem more reliable today than in > yesteryear. > But why? Technology, pure and simple. And competition from OS makes. >> The timing chains on Mitsubishi (Chrysler) 2.6 engines seldom made >> 100,000 km (60,000 miles) if you followed the "normal" oil change >> schedule - and they were a LOT of work to change. They were underrated for the task. It's something that immediately came to my notice the first time I did a timing chain change on one. > That's bad. > I have never replaced a timing belt or a timing chain. > And I've gone well over 150K miles on cars with chains. A decently rated timing chain should be good for 200k miles at the least. That would see most engines out. >> on an old Mini. > I never had a FWD car in my life. > Nor a 4WD. I've had all sorts. I prefer FWD. > I think for a home mechanic, time only matters when the car is still on > blocks on Monday morning when you have to get to work (if you still work). > Otherwise, time isn't the issue. I consider my *time* as being valuable and I have many better things to do with it than work on servicing my own car. -- Xeno |
| rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: Nov 05 09:24PM -0700 > It's definitely DIFFERENT than rear drive - but the low powered > Renault beat out a LOT of bigger and more powerful rear drive cars - > Datsuns, Celicas, BMWs, MGs, "Yank Tanks", Beetles, and Porsches. That was my experience. Coming from RWD experience I had to learn how to drive FWD. Traction control and stability control is raining on my parade though and I can't turn them off. Many RWD cars now have the same stuff and if you can't turn it off I doubt you can steer by throttle either. It's for the children... |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 03:24PM +1100 On 5/11/2017 8:31 AM, RS Wood wrote: > You don't have to handle all cars. > Just your cars. > You can take three weeks to do your alignment. If it was going to take me three weeks to do a wheel alignment on my own car, it would be taken to the professional wheel aligners and they would get the job. > They have to do it in 1/2 hour. It's not that they have to, it's that they *can do it in 1/2 hour*. In fact, with the right wheel aligner, I could do a full wheel alignment in significantly less time. > My oil changes easily take me a couple of hours. > A two-hour oil change at a shop would be unheard of. It'll be unheard of around here too. > get to work, and, if you have to match parts, you'd better get that part to > the dealer or parts store before they close at 6pm, but other than those > two circumstances, why would time matter to a home mechanic? Doesn't matter to me but I have better things to do with my time. > What I mean here is that the weight of tool factors is completely different > for shops than it is for home users. I'll bet almost every job we mentioned > can be done at home with a cost investment of just a few hundred bucks. As a professional mechanic, I have all the professional tools at hand anyway. > clutch in with only three hundred dollars worth of additional tools for > each job, but I'll bet we can do the job BETTER at home simply because we > care more. Care more, maybe. Less experience tends to mean more mistakes are made. That has been my experience dealing with cars that home mechanics have worked on. > So the tradeoff, I think, is > TIME <===> QUALITY You don't pay the tradesman for what he does, you pay him for what he knows and his *experience*. These days that can also include access to TSBs and relevant factory data. > I think only in painting, will the quality of results probably never match > that of a shop (because we just can't afford the tools they use and they > have too much experience that we will never have). That also applies to mechanical work and, over a 50 year span in the trade, I have seen more than my fair share of examples that attest to it. -- Xeno |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Nov 06 03:30PM +1100 On 6/11/2017 3:05 PM, Frank wrote: >> never done? > I've never painted a car. I suppose some day I'll give rebuilding an > automatic transmission a shot, but I've been lucky so far. Lots of traps for the unwary in that little task. -- Xeno |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM > Some of the best rotors out there are Chinese - but also some of the > worst. Consistency is the problem I can't argue but my point is that I've heard everything. The problem is that the advice has to be both logical and actionable. Saying "buy only Brembo or Meyle" is actionable, but not logical. Saying "don't buy Chinese crap" is logical but not actionable. For advice to be useful, it has to be both actionable and logical. I've never heard that in rotors other than buy solid and don't buy drilled/slotted rotors. Other than that, there's no way for a person to tell if one rotor is gonna be better than another. Hence pragmatically ... a rotor is a rotor is a rotor is a rotor. > boils in the calipers. Under those conditions, rotors can warp - and > even fracture (in Rallye use I've seen red hot rotors hit an icy > puddle and totally fracture) I'm never talking racing. They drive on bald tires for heaven's sake in racing! :) > Actually, on SOME cases you can. Look at the consistancy of the fins > in the rotors, and the even-ness of the thickness of the braking > surfaces on both sides of the fins. I'm not gonna disagree that we all can see the mark of good quality on some things when we have two to compare in our hand, but it's too late if you order on the net. > you get to know which suppliers stand up, and which don't. If you > know the suppliers well, they will tell you which ones they have > trouble with, and which ones they don't. Yup. I have nothing against good suppliers. I use Brembo and Meyle but if someone else gave me a rotor at a better price, I'd consider them too. > "warped" rotors are not warped - but some are. Some DRASTICALLY - to > the point the caliper moves visibly when the wheel is turned - and if > the sliders stick the pedal jumps and the steering wheel twitches. That's not the measure of warp. Warp is measured on a flat bench. Just like head warp is measured. > More often than not though, they are either pitted or have deposit > buildup, ot they have "hard spots" due to metalurgical inclusions The only person who says their rotors warped that I will ever trust is one who measured the warp just like you'd measure head warp. If they haven't measured it, it's not happening. And nobody measures it. So it didn't happen. It "could" happen. But it doesn't (on street cars). The problem is the temperature never gets hot enough. Now they can be "warped" from the factory; but that's different (and rare). > to work starts at about $35 for one of questionable quality, and goes > up very quickly from there (and IT won't turn back Mazda rear calipers > - they use a different system I think we're talking about two different kinds of disc brake systems. I had the Nissan 300Z which had the rear disc also as the rear parking brake, but my bimmer has the rear disc and a separate rear parking brake. The piston arrangement is different as is the way to retract them. You don't *twist* pistons in disc brakes that I own that don't have the parking brake as part of the disc brake itself. At least I don't. >>Never once in my life have I found a single person who has *measured* the >>warp. > I have. many times. How? >>They don't even know *how* to measure rotor warp. >>They don't have the tools to measure rotor warp > A somple dial indicator tells the tale Nope. How you gonna tell runut from warp with a dial gauge? > across the rotor. - and sometimes virtually deead flat on both > surfaces - other times with about hald paralel and the other half > "sloped" Now you're straining credularity. >>but they don't know that because they didn't measure a single thing.) > That won't necessarilly tell you anything. The only way to KNOW is to > use a dial indicator properly. How you gonna tell runut from warp with a dial gauge? > And that is where YOU are WRONG. > Many technicians measure brake rotors virtually every day of their > working lives. On the entire freaking Internet, find *one* picture (just one) of a technician actually properly measuring brake rotor *warp*. Just find a *single* picture please. Just one. On the entire freakin' Internet. Find one. > Dealerships were then REQUIRED to buy an "on-the-car lathe" to true > up rotors. That's not warp. Nothing on this planet is going to fix warp. There's not enough metal to remove. > A wize man learns from the mistakes of others - a fool never learns > because he "never makes mistakes" Which is why I wish I had done these half-dozen jobs: 1. Alignment 2. Transmission 3. Engine 4. Tires 5. paint > But you are absolutely WRONG when you say they never warp in > street/highway use and anyone who says they have had a warped rotor is > lying and hasn't measured the rotor to prove it. I never once said "never" but "almost never" which is different, and we're only talking street, and I have references that back up everything I say whereas you provided zero references for what you said. I'm not here to argue opinions. I only argue using logic. Just read the references I provided and then provide some references that back up your point of view. The "Warped" Brake Disc and Other Myths of the Braking System <http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths> The 'Warped Rotor' Myth <http://www.10w40.com/features/maintenance/the-warped-rotor-myth> Warped Brake Rotors - Vibrating Reality or Internet Myth? <https://blog.fcpeuro.com/warped-brake-rotors-vibrating-reality-or-internet-myth> Stop the +IBg-Warped+IBk- Rotors Myth and Service Brakes the Right Way <http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/warped-rotors-myth/> Raybestos Brake Tech School, Part One: Rotors Don't Warp <http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/article_archive/results/details?id 87> |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM Xeno wrote: > than 50% of the pad surface in contact with the rotor surface. No way > will that bed in properly. You will get localised overheating both on > the pad and on the rotor. I'm not gonna argue vehemently because, in practice, while I've seen those "wavy" rotors too, my rotors tend to be smooth so I don't deal with "scoring". However, anyone who says "any scoring of rotors will fail it" has NOT looke up the manufacturer's spec for scoring tests. I have. Long ago. The result was shockingly huge. I don't remember the actual number but I remember being shocked at how huge it is. Something like tens of thousanths of an inch in width huge. We're talking Grand Canyon in rotors. I may be wrong but if someone says "any" scoring, that's just preposterous. Let's see a manufacturer's spec for anyone who says that. Sorry. It's just not logical that 'any' scoring fails a rotor. |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM The Real Bev wrote: >> away, then how could it possibly have been rotor warp in the first place? > I wish I could remember when I stopped noticing it. I might have done a > hard stop to test whether the seat belts were still working properly... It's impossible to diagnose brake-related judder/shudder/vibration on the Internet - but - most of the time - the cause is the simplest most obvious reason. You drive hard on the highway and then stop hard at the bottom of an exit ramp at a light where you sit there with your foot on the brake for a period of time. Guess what happens? For a hard-to-understand reason, the teeeniest tiniest pad imprint tends to grow over time. I don't really understand why, but it does. It gets almost imeasurably larger over time, until you finally feel it while braking at speed. What's the solution? Simple. SHORT TERM: Scrape that deposit off. LONG TERM: Change your braking habits. > doesn't seem that dirt could get into a waterproof watch. I guess it > was accurate, I didn't have anything to check it against but the nice > lady on the phone who told me the time. I have a few Rolex watches (most received as gifts). They suck at keeping time. For brake pads, the thing you care about is friction, cold and hot. Nothing else is close in importance (although dusting is key for some). So pick your pads by what the OEM pads were and try to meet or exceed that. Most pads are around FF but every pad says what it is or it can't be sold in the USA. The (SAE J866a) charts are all over the net. Just look for 'brake pad friction ratings' or something like that. > I drive roughly 4K miles/year and front pads on other cars generally > were OK for 40K miles (rear shoes double that). ~20K now. I'll > remember this just as long as I can :-) Life is one thing but the *primary* factor in brake pads is friction. I buy $35 PBR pads with FF or GG friction ratings which last 30K miles or so and the dust isn't objectionable. So my factors are: a. Friction rating (anything less than FF is worthless) b. Non-objectionable dust (the only way to know is to ask owners) c. Decent life (the only way to know is to ask owners) Friction Coefficient Identification System for Brake Linings <http://standards.sae.org/j866_200204/> |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM >>Adjustable wrenches should be banned as a menace to society. > They are totally fine for some applications - but NOT bolts on a > car!! I was joking, but I still don't get why I see people use them all the time when they slip too much because they fit so badly and only on a few edges and they are huge compared to the right-sized box wrench so they don't fit in a car. I'm gonna start a "Save the bolts" non-profit political group to enact stringent adjustable-wrench control laws! One rounded bolt head is too many. :) |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM >>someone else to twist a bolt that I could have twisted myself. > You paid $10 to twist the bolt and $90 to know how far to turn what > bolt in what direction!! Good point. But I would rather have paid $100 for the tool to measure to know that I twisted the bolt as far as it could go. In the case of my rear camber, it was maxed out at 0 degrees, so, in hindsight, I guess I could have done it sans any measurement at all. :) |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM Xeno wrote: >> Lot of us keep a car until repair cost exceeds book value. > I trade my cars in when I'm sick of them. For me, I get a new car when the old car has a repair that isn't worth paying. That's less likely nowadays as I'm retired on a low budget. |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM > the combustion chamber under high heat and pressure, dissassociating > and causing detonation. Can run much higher compression ratio on > regular gas. Thanks for summarizing the most important advantage. I've found that anyone who can't summarize the most important factor generally does not understand the issue. So thank you for summarizing what is new information for me. Much appreciated! |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM >>So, fundamentally, people seem to be saying that carburetors contaminated >>everything more than does EFI, which reduced the life of the engine. > Correct Thanks. Makes sense. I love learning where the lesson makes sense. |
| RS Wood <rswood@is.invalid>: Nov 06 04:48AM Frank wrote: > 10W 40 would coke up faster than 10W 30, for what it's worth. I just mentioned that, but I didn't look for references. Do we all generally agree that the *spread* is what causes the coking? 0W30 has a spread of 30 5W30 has a spread of 25 10W40 has a spread of 30 30W40 has a spread of 10 <--- this has the lowest coking If we agree on that concept of coking:spread, then the question is how much does coking actually matter and under what conditions does coking matter? |
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