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oldschool@tubes.com: Jun 07 12:15AM -0500 I had some electronics in a storage building, which flooded. I figured that most of it is junk, but I wiped it clean and put some of the stuff outside in the sun to bake dry. So far, much of it works. But two items, a GPS and a Police Scanner, both with LCD screens have very faint screens. I kind of think the water affected the LCD screens.   Is there any way to get them LCD screens to work (other than replacing them)?

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk>: Jun 07 08:47AM +0100 > screens. I kind of think the water affected the LCD screens.   > Is there any way to get them LCD screens to work (other than replacing > them)?   The least bad way is to rewash in distilled water with no power and let them dry again. LCD contrast can be ruined by any leakage pin to pin.   Drying further by putting the unit in a sealed jar with rice once you have naked it dry in the sun (or in a real dessicator is also helpful).   Some things just don't recover from being dropped in dirty water - my previous dumb mobile phone for instance. It was bricked by that.   -- Regards, Martin Brown

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Jun 07 02:45AM -0700 On Thursday, 7 June 2018 08:47:53 UTC+1, Martin Brown wrote: > have naked it dry in the sun (or in a real dessicator is also helpful).   > Some things just don't recover from being dropped in dirty water - my > previous dumb mobile phone for instance. It was bricked by that.   Dry it properly, rice & no air movement is not a good choice.     NT

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jun 07 07:01AM -0500 > I had some electronics in a storage building, which > flooded.   Must not of needed it or it wouldn't have been in a Storage building.   Throw the stuff out and spend your time fixing the roof.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jun 07 05:32AM -0700 On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:01:54 AM UTC-4, Fox's Mercantile wrote:   > Throw the stuff out and spend your time fixing the roof.   That IS rather ironic coming from you - ;-)>   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jun 07 08:11AM -0500 > On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 8:01:54 AM UTC-4, Fox's Mercantile wrote:   >> Throw the stuff out and spend your time fixing the roof.   > That IS rather ironic coming from you - ;-)>   My roof leaks. I have enough sense to have tarps protecting stuff.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

freedom.1234.gt@gmail.com: Jun 06 09:26PM -0700 On Saturday, June 5, 2010 at 5:40:46 AM UTC-7, Falk Willberg wrote: > don't want to do all of them).   > Grateful for any advice, > Falk   My driver window switch replaced to fix driver front window on 2001 windstar. I had broken it trying to troubleshoot it. I had checked fuses and power and window worked once, so not the motor of the window. I fixed one fuse. I checked power to motor with switch on, and no power, but i hear a click noise in the module under dash, and then googled to see what electronic parts are associated with the power window and results came up with the front module being a part of the window system. I accidentally bought the rear on ebay not noticing it said rear till i got it delivered. I then ordered the front on ebay again for 22 dollars. See how it goes. Blessings!

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jun 07 03:56AM -0700 That was eighteen (18) years ago, or very nearly.

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jun 07 05:41AM -0700 > That was eighteen (18) years ago, or very nearly.   More like 8, but who is counting?

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Jun 07 05:59AM -0700 On Thursday, 7 June 2018 13:41:29 UTC+1, Terry Schwartz wrote: > On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 5:56:37 AM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote: > > That was eighteen (18) years ago, or very nearly.   > More like 8, but who is counting?   you

Arlen Holder <arlenholder@nospam.net>: Jun 07 05:26AM There are 4 fans: 1) Attached to the back of the tower is the now not-working ~3x3" fan 2) The sound card GPU has a working fan (attached to the GPU) 3) The motherboard CPU has a working fan (attached to the CPU) 4) The power supply has its own working fan also (inside the power supply)   When I added a few disks and cleaned out the dust inside, I disconnected all the SATA power cables and bought af Molex-to-SATA adapter, where, when I put it all back together and powered it up, the main #1 fan above isn't working anymore. <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_fan.jpg>   I've been using the computer for a few days without that main fan. Googling for how to check the temperature, I installed and ran Speedfan.Exe with the side cover removed. <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_clipboard015.jpg> I think the only tab in Speedfan.Exe that is useful is "Readings". - Fan1: 0 RPM, Fan2: 1236 RPM, Fan3: 0 RPM, Fan4: 0 RPM, Fan5: 0 RPM - GPU: 73C, Temp1: 45C, Temp2: 29C, Temp3: -2C, Temp: 0C - HD1: 43C, HD2 44C, HD0: 40C - Core 0: 37C   The only thing I see 'wrong' perhaps is that the graphics card has a 6-inch set of black and white twisted wires that aren't connected to anything on one end as shown below. <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_computer_1.jpg>   I don't remember if that set of wires was connected or not, so I left it unconnected. Plus, why would a graphics card control the "main" fan anyway? <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_computer_2.jpg>   The motherboard & graphics according to CPU-Z from cpuid.com are: - Gigabyte Technology Co. Ltd., Model EP43-UD3L - Nvidia GeForce 8500 GT, ASUSTek Computer Inc., G86, Revision A2   The "sensors" reading of the GPU-Z software from TechPowerUp says: - GPU Temperature 73.0C - Fan Speed 40% <http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=17_clipboard0219.jpg>   The fan seems to only have two wires going to it which come from a Molex connector with original pigtails, so the fan has power I'm pretty sure (I haven't taken it out yet becuase I think the two wires coming off the graphics card are what caused the fan to stop.   Any advice for what makes the main #1 span spin? (Could it be the twisted pair of wires coming off the graphics board?)   If the machine runs without the fan, will it shut off when it gets hot?

"tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net>: Jun 07 02:41AM -0400 "Arlen Holder" <arlenholder@nospam.net> wrote in message news:pfafmc$g02$1@news.mixmin.net...   > Any advice for what makes the main #1 span spin? > (Could it be the twisted pair of wires coming off the graphics board?)   > If the machine runs without the fan, will it shut off when it gets hot?     https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-EP43-UD3L-rev-11#support-manual

tabbypurr@gmail.com: Jun 07 02:44AM -0700 On Thursday, 7 June 2018 06:26:39 UTC+1, Arlen Holder wrote:   > Any advice for what makes the main #1 span spin? > (Could it be the twisted pair of wires coming off the graphics board?)   > If the machine runs without the fan, will it shut off when it gets hot?   many machines don't need that extra case fan.     NT

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jun 07 03:57AM -0700 The troll is back, please don't feed the troll.

Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid>: Jun 07 11:59AM +0100 On 07/06/18 06:26, Arlen Holder wrote: > 1) Attached to the back of the tower is the now not-working ~3x3" fan > 2) The sound card GPU has a working fan (attached to the GPU) > 3) The motherboard CPU has a working fan (attached to the CPU)   He's back ...   -- Adrian C

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jun 06 11:05AM -0700 On 2018/06/06 8:12 AM, Terry Schwartz wrote: > Given the thickness of the leaded glass on those CRTs, I doubt X-rays are a concern. But you could always have the gamers wear tin-foil hats.   It is not just the face of the tube that emits X-Rays, the glass on the bell housing can (I am pretty sure) leak as well. A common use for this 13" monitor was in cocktail tables. So the face of the tube is shown to the players and the bell housing, well let us just say it is pretty much inline with your waist on down...   Not wanting customer gonads to glow in the dark was my main impetus for finding a simple, yet reliable solution that did not defeat the internal over-voltage X-ray shutdown process.   John ;-#)#   -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jun 06 11:32AM -0700 On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 10:12:14 AM UTC-5, Terry Schwartz wrote: > Given the thickness of the leaded glass on those CRTs, I doubt X-rays are a concern.   I would tend to agree, but radiation is not the only concern. There is the matter of spacing of the internal components as well as the thickness of the glass on the bell part. This does determine a limit as well and going much beyond it can cause a catastrophic failure likely to wreck the envelope so it cannot be rebuilt.   It also depends on the customer. If they are corporate and even give a thought to ISO compliance they won't like it. Even this modification if it brings it completely into specs is something ISO doesn't like. If they are informed of the excessive HV and go ahead and allow its use they become culpable for whatever happens due to that. If they are not notified then the servicer might just find out many new things about the legal system. I know it is not the US where we got more lawsuits than people, but they still have tort laws and there is still such a thing as ISO. Cheating the ISO can even result in criminal charges in some cases, though rare.   >But you could always have the gamers wear tin-foil hats.   Tin is expensive. The shit you buy today is aluminum foil. While aluminum conducts electricity better than tin (Al 2.65*10^[10-8] v Sn 1.15*10^[10-7]) it has nothing to do with its admittance to "those" rays, or Xrays. Lead (Pb) would be better. The aluminum can create a reflection zone where the mind scrambling rays' effects are amplified. Lead however, fatigues too easily which makes it harder to fashion acceptable headwear using it. So it is no mystery why tin is so much more expensive. The damn conspirators are limiting production and buying up the supplies for their electronic contrivances to keep us in line, depriving us of the tin we need for those body suits. What else could it be ?   {for those humorically challenged - that last paragraph was a joke}

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jun 06 11:48AM -0700 >"Not wanting customer gonads to glow in the dark..."   Simple, lead athletic cups. Like the ones you wear fro sports...   OK, joking aside, to find out if my plan will work you need some actual capacitors to pad that LOPT collector. Then along with the HV output, watch the duty cycle of the pulse on the collector, it should be somewhere around 20 %.   I just looked up the PAL line frequency and it is not lower than NTSC. We expect 12.5 uS retrace pulse so that is probably close to what you need.   HOWEVER, since it is a monitor and has no need for a back porch for a color sub burst, it may be shorter. The design seems like the engineers were conscientious, and shorter retrace is usually more energy efficient. Since these units were made to run continuously they may have made it their concern.   It is not easy to tell if the retrace is as intended. One way is to use the horizontal phase, as you said it was off. If you return the control to its original position and padding brings it back within spec then you are getting there. Another way is to temporarily reduce the B+ and turn up the G2 to reveal overscan hidden by blanking, and that is a bit subjective.   Modification is fun ain't it ?   And my question stands, the core. Can you see it and if so can you slip a piece of say, card stock between it and the molded part ?

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jun 06 12:14PM -0700 < catastrophic failure likely to wreck the envelope so it cannot be rebuilt. >   Rebuilt? Seriously? I think the last CRT rebuilder went out of business about a decade ago. Hawkeye. The only rebuilding operation left in the western world is in the Vintage TV museum, and that's only for show.   I think many arcade machines now are repaired by subbing in an LCD panel from a computer monitor. I've seen several, and they work great. Sometimes a small circuit board is required to invert polarities, etc., but there are a handful of guys selling those on line.   John, have you considered the LCD sub?   Terry

Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Jun 06 12:24PM -0700 > Not wanting customer gonads to glow in the dark was my main impetus for > finding a simple, yet reliable solution that did not defeat the internal > over-voltage X-ray shutdown process.   John, my DK JR cocktail is in a metal cabinet -- robust as all get-out. Are my gonads safe in the case of HV runaway? Not that I need them anymore, my breeding days are long past.   Actually I do believe that it's the accelerated electrons hitting the face of the tube that causes X-ray radiation. Any radiation out the sides is very low energy and likely stopped by the cabinet or maybe even the aquadag.   However -- excess high voltage used to cause CRT images to "bloom". Isn't that happening in your scenario?   Terry

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jun 06 01:21PM -0700 On 2018/06/06 12:14 PM, Terry Schwartz wrote:   > I think many arcade machines now are repaired by subbing in an LCD panel from a computer monitor. I've seen several, and they work great. Sometimes a small circuit board is required to invert polarities, etc., but there are a handful of guys selling those on line.   > John, have you considered the LCD sub?   > Terry   We are trying to avoid going LCD, the original picture tube is just fine, and gives a more realistic image on the customer's cabaret style Pacman game. LCDs are flat, picture tubes were mostly curved.   We do do LCD conversions, but the reason I started this investigation is other folks also like to repair monitors and when I realized a potential risk I decided to do something about it.   FYI, we still have over 100 monitors in our shop in various states from NOS to POS (Peace Of S...) that we plan to save as many as possible for museums and collectors who are our customers.   John :-#)#   PS, there are people who are rebuilding picture tubes in their garages...small tubes for early sets, but it is only a matter of time before they progress to larger tubes - if there is a market!   -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Jun 06 02:11PM -0700 On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 4:21:50 PM UTC-4, John Robertson wrote: > (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) > www.flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."   Back in the 70s there were several companies that sold CRT rebuilding equipment out of the back of Radio Electronics and Electronic Servicing (and others). I came real close to buying one of those setups. I'm sure many others did and I'm sure some of the machines are still around, but the big problem would be sourcing the gun assy. For all we know, the Ruskies might still be making them.

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jun 06 02:25PM -0700 On 2018/06/06 2:11 PM, John-Del wrote: >> before they progress to larger tubes - if there is a market!   >> --   > Back in the 70s there were several companies that sold CRT rebuilding equipment out of the back of Radio Electronics and Electronic Servicing (and others). I came real close to buying one of those setups. I'm sure many others did and I'm sure some of the machines are still around, but the big problem would be sourcing the gun assy. For all we know, the Ruskies might still be making them.   People rebuild radio and other tubes, pretty sure a gun can be rebuilt - if worth enough $$ to someone!   And here you go!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3G7b-DcOO4   John :-#)#   -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jun 06 02:35PM -0700 > The components around R 516, C 519 etc. have nothing to do with the HV level. They are for the ABL, they measure the actual HV current and cut the video gain down if it exceeds a certain level. There is not supposed to be voltage dropped there like in a CRO.   > Notice the difference in the print around C 512 - 514. The 19" version has 2 extra caps there. They downed C 514 down to 2,ooo pF from 2,500. Then they added C 531 & 532. which slows down the retrace, makes all retrace rectified sources lower and trace rectified sources a little bit higher. You can tell which it is by scoping the input the the rectifier, if you see a large negative trace on a positive source it is trace rectified, if the pulse is positive on a positive source it is retrace rectified.   > Question : this potted fly, CAN YOU GET TO THE CORE ? You do not have to get to the windings, if you can get to the core you can add bucking or boosting windings to any winding there. All that area that is encapsulated, can you see the ferrite thing around it ? If so, can you see a gap ? All we need is about 0.03 inches for good enough. That is big enough for # 24 AWG to get through and you can get it with like couple hundred volt insulation.   The outside core is accessible, and there is a nice gap between it and the potted windings.   ftp://flippers.com//usr/www/users/flip/pdfs/Temp/Electrohome_GO-7_13inch_CBO_flyback.jpg     > Comment :   > This thing was built before internal pincusion correction in the CRTs. There is a saturable reactor and another one that is permanent magnet biased. there are also VDRs. This means that This indicated that voltage and current levels muct be at least close for good geometry. We are not talking moon shot accuracy here but we must remain within the "linear non-linearitiy" operating range of those devices.   > It also seems that the B+ is lower in one than the other.; One says (somewhere) 120 regulated and the other says nothing, but both shutdown use the same resistors and Zeners, and that indicates that the B+ level is close if not the same.   Both 13 & 19" used 120VDC as their B+. The 19" regulator was simply higher current.     > If, after adding the capacitance I suggested you find that it is not enough then the next thing is to reduce the B+. but don't do it with a passive device. The best method would be to add a Zener diode of the voltage desired with the anode to ground and the cathode to to the junction of C 905 & R 914. You'll probably want to choose a standard value anyway so choose a lower one and put a pot in series. It might decrease the tightness of the regulation but bucking that we had the gain of the IC itself. Look at most of them, they try to operate in their linear range. That works to our advantage.   Capacitance of 6,000pf did work, the buck/boost idea is nice, but may involve too much time, and it will be easy for someone to get wrong. A single cap is nice and clean and almost fool-proof. I still have to track down an original flyback driven 13" monitor to make sure the other voltages (with the 6Kpf cap) are within reasonable limits, but the image is good, so I assume all is well! The filament, screen, and focus voltages all seem good, so I think we have a winner here. Will now try doing a second monitor to see if this is not just a fluke...     > Keep this baby on the road !   That is what we do at my shop!   Thanks for all your technical advice, that has clarified the schematic a lot for me, obviously you have experience with either designing or repairing monitors/TVs.   John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jun 06 06:42PM -0700 >"The outside core is accessible, and there is a nice gap between it and the potted windings. "   It can be a chance getting the polarity right when you buck/boost, but with a fly (LOPT) like that it is easy to see on the scope. I wanted to buck the pulse to the yoke on this little 13" Sony I watch sometimes, I didn't buck the top end where the 1,000 volt pulse is, I bucked the bottom. Makes more sense.   >"Both 13 & 19" used 120VDC as their B+. The 19" regulator was simply higher current. "   Makes sense by backward reasoning. Shutdown is the same, there is a law or something that it must when the radiation hits a certain level and that is that. Thus, a unit with more nominal B+ will have a higher OV shutdown threshold.   >"Capacitance of 6,000pf did work..."   It is possible it is perfect. For market share in the repair parts market they do occlude the fact that some of these parts are the same. Your average tech has no way of telling even with the best of equipment. And teachers can't teach what they do not know. they offered me a job, well one guy who worked at Case University. he said they can't find anyone to teach what I taught him to get the job there, and that was very basic. the traveling turned me off but I might take it now, however they must take me with absolutely zero accreditation, official anyway.   >"I still have to track down an original flyback driven 13" monitor to make sure the other voltages (with the 6Kpf cap) are within reasonable limits"   There appears to only be one scan derived source, 12 volts. They do not change the number of turns on one winding of a transformer for different screen sizes. It is almost for sure well within specs. think about it from the engineers' point of view.;   >"That is what we do at my shop! "   Good. would you like some references to some music ? Judas Priest - Another Thing Comin', Queensryche - Best Man, there are more. I odn't give up. Well as a rule, sometimes I see no way to get er done and then I pull out faster than a (insert your own thaing here)   >"Thanks for all your technical advice, that has clarified the schematic a lot for me, obviously you have experience with either designing or repairing monitors/TVs. "   Not designing so much, but I have made alot of money making things work that nobody else could. Part not available ? They called me. I was good. We had a bunch of countdown chips that were bad out of the box. No sync. With the addition of a generic PNP transistor I fixed it and the sets ran fine on the defective IC. I have modified more power supplies than they have designed. when I put a winding on a fly (LOPT) to isolate the filament of a CRT with an HK short I used a resistor of like 5K to make sure it was effectively shorted and not intermittent (which many were) and then boosted the high frequency response of the video amp to compensate for the stray capacitance introduced by the video being imposed on the line.   At one time, I considered a big shop. I have been in business but it only got to 2 locations and we got sick of it. But I considered a test for tech applicants. One of the first requirements is to be able to draw a block diagram of a color TV. And I don't mean 3 blocks, I mean with some detail.   From your posts I am pretty sure you can, but how many can ? Or could ? So many places had incompetent people it left a bad taste in the customers. Where I worked we were cheaper and better because we were more efficient, and ALSO MADE MORE MONEY. Competence pays off if you know how to use it.

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