- Engine run time to keep battery charged - 7 Updates
- Solution Manual Electronic Principles (8th Ed., Albert Malvino, David Bates) - 1 Update
- Engl valve amp disaster - 17 Updates
| Terry Schwartz <tschw10117@aol.com>: Feb 06 11:33AM -0800 This actually pretty easy. If you feel you really need to know, measure the quiescent current in the vehicle several minutes after the ignition has been shut off. It should be in the milliamp range. Now you can figure out the rate of discharge for the battery based on the AH rating. (NOT CCA). In hot or cold climates, derate the battery 20% for every year of life. (20% of the previous capacity, not the original capacity). BUT.... it really doesn't matter. Vehicles with early electronics didn't manage the quiescent loads as well as modern vehicles. And added accessories can obviously add to that if they tap unswitched power. You want to keep that battery charged to 80% or better of capacity. Because charging systems vary in algorithm and efficiency, and vehicles vary in dynamic loading, it's impossible to say "run the vehicle for X minutes every two weeks. But it is possible to pick a battery tender. Anything of decent quality today will taper the charge and many apply desulfating algorithms to the battery once it's charged. You can fearlessly leave a Schumacher or Battery Minder or Battery Tender on your dormant vehicle battery indefinitely. The amp rating only makes a difference in the time it takes to charge the battery from a discharged state. Any tender can keep it topped off. I personally use tenders rated from 800ma to 4A and they all work fine on my many pieces of power sports equipment, as well as my winter-stored street vehicles, boats, and yard equipment. Unless the battery is bad -- unusually high self discharge due to sulfation -- any tender has the capability to keep it topped off. Note that final voltages are different for various types of batteries -- so if you are using an AGM or GEL battery, get the appropriate tender. I *do* have some experience in this from both a personal and professional standpoint. |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Feb 06 05:39PM -0800 On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 16:36:28 UTC, John-Del wrote: > > > Every two weeks is good practice. > > If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid. > Why does every little thing need to be challenged to absolutes in this NG? The topic is how often the car should be started & for how long. It's a discussion. > I've never seen so much mental dick-wagging on a "professional" group. Differing opinions are not dick wagging > Is the car going to explode if started and run every two weeks? It might be overkill, but old cars in particular should be exercised often. Even the seals in the engine, transmission, rear end, and hydraulic systems are happier when kept lubricated by routine. Solenoids and vacuum actuators can stick from sitting long periods. Yes. 2 years yes, not 2 weeks > And here's another reason: cars stored out of doors around where I live become fodder for squirrels and chipmunks when sitting in the same spot. I friend stored a low mileage Acura at my house (interior fire) while he located another from Copart to use as a donor. 6 months later, he went to drive the car out of my property and found the transmission harness eaten right down to the casting. how would running the engine every 2 weeks solve that? > So... OP: start the Buick every two or three weeks, let it idle for a good half hour or so to get it good and hot if you can't drive it. If you can, take that old Buick for a good half hour drive - fedora and cigar optional... Groupthink has struck. NT |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Feb 06 05:42PM -0800 > On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 11:09:24 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote: > > If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid. Regardless of temperature cars do not need running every 2 weeks unless electrically faulty. > Water in the air is not the issue, and never was. Water from products-of-combustion are the issue. I've not heard any reason they wold be, nor how running every 2 weeks would cause less of that than every 4. > Failing the availability of a float charger, and, especially in extreme (hot or cold) weather conditions, "about every two weeks" is a good rule-of-thumb. One never quite knows the actual condition of the battery, charging system, parasitic loads and so forth, so 'designing to the specific need' may not be ideal. And more than a month or so starts getting into the risk of seals drying out - especially in 30+ year old engines. > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA I presumed the OP didn't have a charger, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. If the OP does have a decent charger, use it. If a not-decent charger, don't. NT |
| John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Feb 06 07:04PM -0800 > > > If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid. > > Why does every little thing need to be challenged to absolutes in this NG? > The topic is how often the car should be started & for how long. It's a discussion. A discussion is fine, but when you start saying stuff like "If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid." that's not a discussion, that's pushing a silly argument. Cars develop condensation internally from incomplete heat cycling regardless of ambient conditions. Everyone knows this, including you I'm sure. > > I've never seen so much mental dick-wagging on a "professional" group. > Differing opinions are not dick wagging It is when every bit of minutia is parsed to absurdity. > > Is the car going to explode if started and run every two weeks? It might be overkill, but old cars in particular should be exercised often. Even the seals in the engine, transmission, rear end, and hydraulic systems are happier when kept lubricated by routine. Solenoids and vacuum actuators can stick from sitting long periods. > Yes. 2 years yes, not 2 weeks I didn't say they would stick in two weeks, I said that exercising the car every two weeks would likely prevent those issues. This is an old car we're talking about. The older they are, the more they need to keep moving. > > And here's another reason: cars stored out of doors around where I live become fodder for squirrels and chipmunks when sitting in the same spot. I friend stored a low mileage Acura at my house (interior fire) while he located another from Copart to use as a donor. 6 months later, he went to drive the car out of my property and found the transmission harness eaten right down to the casting. > how would running the engine every 2 weeks solve that? Squirrels and chipmunks don't build nests inside cars that move often or smell of human interaction. Leave a car unmoved for a month and you start seeing chipmunks running under the car daily. I move my old plow Explorer every week or so and turn it around, or park it elsewhere for a few days. |
| Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Feb 06 10:57PM -0600 >> I've never seen so much mental dick-wagging on a "professional" >> group. > Differing opinions are not dick wagging Yes they are when it's pointless. You constantly feel the need to always add some contrary opinion to anything being discussed. You do it every time Peter says something. The grout thread for example. And now you're doing it with John. I see a pattern here, you have to always be right. About every thing. Usually you aren't. But that doesn't stop you. Do us all a favor, instead of having to hit "Follow up" on every post, buy yourself a roll of paper towels and a bottle of Astro Glide. If you don't know what to do, I'm sure you can find the answers via Google.com, or any number of search engines. -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com |
| +++ATH0 <news@ringpiece.local>: Feb 06 09:15PM -0800 > A Float Charger will activate at some point when the battery charge drops below the trigger level, charge to a specific set-point, and then shut off until the next cycle. It seems like you don't know what a float charge is. It involves maintaining the battery terminal voltage at the correct point for the ambient temperature with a permanently-connected charger so that the battery neither passes an appreciable amount of charge current nor self-discharges. The relevant type of lead-acid cells will remain fully-charged and healthy for decades when this is done correctly, but only if they are intended for low-discharge float service, as seen in telco POPs and similar where they are rarely called on for service. Starter batteries don't deserve this sort of treatment, and the chargers you get for them don't behave in this way. There are maintenance chargers which are intended to be permanently connected which operate in the way you suggest, but it's not float charging. |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Feb 07 02:12AM -0800 On Thursday, 7 February 2019 03:04:44 UTC, John-Del wrote: > > > Why does every little thing need to be challenged to absolutes in this NG? > > The topic is how often the car should be started & for how long. It's a discussion. > A discussion is fine, but when you start saying stuff like "If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid." that's not a discussion, that's pushing a silly argument. it's stating a fact directly relevant to the topic > Cars develop condensation internally from incomplete heat cycling regardless of ambient conditions. Everyone knows this, including you I'm sure. sure. > > > I've never seen so much mental dick-wagging on a "professional" group. > > Differing opinions are not dick wagging > It is when every bit of minutia is parsed to absurdity. the claim that cars need to be run every 2 weeks is core to the topic, not minutia > > > And here's another reason: cars stored out of doors around where I live become fodder for squirrels and chipmunks when sitting in the same spot. I friend stored a low mileage Acura at my house (interior fire) while he located another from Copart to use as a donor. 6 months later, he went to drive the car out of my property and found the transmission harness eaten right down to the casting. > > how would running the engine every 2 weeks solve that? > Squirrels and chipmunks don't build nests inside cars that move often or smell of human interaction. Leave a car unmoved for a month and you start seeing chipmunks running under the car daily. I move my old plow Explorer every week or so and turn it around, or park it elsewhere for a few days. maybe a valid point at last. NT |
| teylorharris@gmail.com: Feb 06 05:45PM -0800 > Send me the file please thanks DId he ever email you back ? |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Feb 06 09:09PM OK, I repaired an Engl Sovereign 100 recently, it's a 100 Watt combo using 4 x 6L6. One of the JJ 6l6 had obviously overheated, and it's screen resistor was toast. The other 3 measured quite worn, so I replaced all 4 with personally matched JJ Teslas I have in stock along with the screen resistor. I also replaced some HT caps which were leaking electrolyte. All the pre-amp valves (JJ Tesla ECC83) tested good. The amp was fine for a few gigs, the owner was delighted, saying it sounded great. Then it apparently broke. Blew the mains fuse. Customer replaced it (more than once? With the correct type? Dunno, it was missing when the amp came back.) Anyway I as usual first took out all the valves and tested them. 4 out of the 6 pre-amp valves had open circuit heaters. Now, this is one of the most difficult and time consuming valve amps I have ever had the misfortune to have dealt with. You can't see any of the components on the main board as they are between the PCB and the chassis. There are 3 other PCB's hard wired to this mainboard (2 front panel potentiometer PCBs and the rear PCB.) No plugs and sockets, all 4 PCBs have to come out of the chassis as one, along with all the umbillicals connecting them together, which is a total nightmare as they only just make it. The OPT is actually ON the main PCB, making things physically really difficult to remove the boards. All the power transformer windings are hard wired onto the main PCB, so you have to desolder all these first. One problem is I can't find the correct schematic for the board I have, and I have a burnt resistor on a preamp cathode I can't identify. But more to the point is the mode of failure here. The only schematic I could find is the same one Engl sent me, and is not the right one for this particular model, but here it is for reference. https://music-electronics-forum.com/showthread.php?t=46947 Sorry this is so long winded, but I feel it is necessary to provide all the pre data. Anyway, look at the output stage. There are 2 BY509 diodes on the Anodes of the 6L6 valves, going to the standby switch and then to ground. Only the amp I have here isn't quite like that. THIS one has the 2 BY509 diodes connected to the HEATER circuit, pin 2, on the output valves. The diodes are connected to pins 2 and 3 of the output valves. The standby switch connects all cathodes to ground, but is not connected to either diode. Now, I found one of these diodes is shorted. Bummer. Meaning you get HT fed to all the heaters in the amp. Double bummer is that the heater winding has a 250 Ohm hum balance pot across it, connected to ground, the heater winding is otherwise in the air. So now this HT has a path through all the heaters to ground. This balance pot is now open circuit all ways, so current must have flowed from HT, through the heaters, burning 4 of them out, through the pot, burning it out, which is when it stopped. I also have the burnt resistor on a preamp valve cathode to ground, maybe this was an internal short, putting full HT on the cathode? There is other damage I won't get into just now, but I just would like to understand why they put these diodes on the heater circuit, and if my synopsis/series of events here is correct. Nightmare. |
| N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Feb 06 09:18PM On 06/02/2019 21:09, Gareth Magennis wrote: Can you find a flea-bay "spares or repair" one with a different fault to compare with? |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Feb 06 09:31PM "N_Cook" wrote in message news:q3fivi$ro2$1@dont-email.me... On 06/02/2019 21:09, Gareth Magennis wrote: Can you find a flea-bay "spares or repair" one with a different fault to compare with? ********************************************************* Not really. I think this particular one might be quite rare, since even Engl can't yet come up with the schematic. Gareth. |
| John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Feb 06 01:34PM -0800 On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 4:09:56 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote: > understand why they put these diodes on the heater circuit, and if my > synopsis/series of events here is correct. > Nightmare. I don't see the reason either, other than the heater circuit being close to ground (but not quite). I guess you should be grateful it didn't take out the filament winding of the power transformer. I would consider wiring it with the diodes connected directly to the standby switch, and isolate the filament per the schematic you have. Can't help but wonder if it wasn't a factory screw up. Another possibility is isolate the anodes to those diodes with a 125 ohm resistor to the standby switch instead of using the balance pot as the ground return. Crazy. Good luck. |
| John-Del <ohger1s@gmail.com>: Feb 06 01:38PM -0800 On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 4:09:56 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote: > Now, I found one of these diodes is shorted. > Bummer. > Meaning you get HT fed to all the heaters in the amp. I wonder if the new output arced causing the diode to short. |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Feb 06 09:47PM "John-Del" wrote in message news:76d40d1e-5c6c-4614-b485-dc54b661a6b8@googlegroups.com... On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 4:09:56 PM UTC-5, Gareth Magennis wrote: > Now, I found one of these diodes is shorted. > Bummer. > Meaning you get HT fed to all the heaters in the amp. I wonder if the new output arced causing the diode to short. ******************************* These are 4kV diodes, hard to find. I had to order them from Europe, Farnell, RS etc don't have stock. Gareth. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 06 02:04PM -0800 Gareth Magennis wrote: > These are 4kV diodes, ** WRONG !!!! Their rating is 11kV at 4mA and should never have ben used in the amp. .... Phil hard to find. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 06 02:07PM -0800 Gareth Magennis wrote: > There is other damage I won't get into just now, but I just would like to > understand why they put these diodes on the heater circuit, and if my > synopsis/series of events here is correct. ** Connection to the heater circuit was done out of convenience and assumes there is a CT that goes to chassis - which of course does not exist. The BY509 diodes are *intended* to "catch" any large flyback spikes, clamping them so the plate voltage on the 6L6s never goes negative which in turn limits the peak voltage at the opposite end of the OT to no more than double the DC supply - sufficient for all normal operation. However the BY 509 is rated at only 4mA and so is entirely inadequate for the job. Stings of 1N4007s are often used for this or other internally seriesed diodes that add up to 4kV or more rated for at LEAST 250mA !! BTW: Don't you juts HATE schematics that have no dots to show if lines drawn crossing at right angles are connected or not !!! What a crock of shit !!!!!! ..... Phil |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Feb 06 10:18PM "Phil Allison" wrote in message news:d61ae45d-71af-430b-b296-b3e0ebe0ef11@googlegroups.com... Gareth Magennis wrote: > These are 4kV diodes, ** WRONG !!!! Their rating is 11kV at 4mA and should never have ben used in the amp. .... Phil hard to find. > I had to order them from Europe, Farnell, RS etc don't have stock. ************************************************ Ah, sorry Phil, the schematic is not of the board I have, and doesn't show the correct diode, I just assumed it did. The diodes on the board I have are GP 02-40. https://www.vishay.com/docs/88635/gp0220.pdf This is, I believe, a 4kV diode. Gareth. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 06 02:29PM -0800 On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 9:18:26 AM UTC+11, Gareth Magennis wrote: > ************************************************ > Ah, sorry Phil, the schematic is not of the board I have, and doesn't show > the correct diode, I just assumed it did. ** Like you assume everything else .... > The diodes on the board I have are GP 02-40. > https://www.vishay.com/docs/88635/gp0220.pdf > This is, I believe, a 4kV diode. ** More importantly, it is rated at 250mA continuous. Nevertheless it failed and caused all the damage you have there. I suggest you repair the damage and fit new diodes wired DIRECT to chassis /ground. The use of fast diodes rated at 1 amp and 1kV or more is a good idea. .... Phil |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Feb 06 10:31PM "Phil Allison" wrote in message news:1b2672b0-c802-4d9f-809c-c2a155b122a1@googlegroups.com... Gareth Magennis wrote: > There is other damage I won't get into just now, but I just would like to > understand why they put these diodes on the heater circuit, and if my > synopsis/series of events here is correct. ** Connection to the heater circuit was done out of convenience and assumes there is a CT that goes to chassis - which of course does not exist. The BY509 diodes are *intended* to "catch" any large flyback spikes, clamping them so the plate voltage on the 6L6s never goes negative which in turn limits the peak voltage at the opposite end of the OT to no more than double the DC supply - sufficient for all normal operation. However the BY 509 is rated at only 4mA and so is entirely inadequate for the job. Stings of 1N4007s are often used for this or other internally seriesed diodes that add up to 4kV or more rated for at LEAST 250mA !! BTW: Don't you juts HATE schematics that have no dots to show if lines drawn crossing at right angles are connected or not !!! What a crock of shit !!!!!! ..... Phil ********************************************** "** Connection to the heater circuit was done out of convenience and assumes there is a CT that goes to chassis - which of course does not exist." This makes more sense now. Gareth. |
| Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll>: Feb 06 11:35PM +0100 On 6-2-2019 22:09, Gareth Magennis wrote: Are you sure the right tubes are there? The wiring suggests the tube pins are not matching the surrounding wiring and components. |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Feb 06 10:38PM "Phil Allison" wrote in message news:a4c0ec40-2858-4c2c-bd73-5e9045aea40c@googlegroups.com... On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 9:18:26 AM UTC+11, Gareth Magennis wrote: > ************************************************ > Ah, sorry Phil, the schematic is not of the board I have, and doesn't show > the correct diode, I just assumed it did. ** Like you assume everything else .... > The diodes on the board I have are GP 02-40. > https://www.vishay.com/docs/88635/gp0220.pdf > This is, I believe, a 4kV diode. ** More importantly, it is rated at 250mA continuous. Nevertheless it failed and caused all the damage you have there. I suggest you repair the damage and fit new diodes wired DIRECT to chassis /ground. The use of fast diodes rated at 1 amp and 1kV or more is a good idea. .... Phil ******************************************* OK, so I am still of the opinion that nothing could have caused that diode to fail other than the diode itself (?) Cheers, Gareth. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 06 02:44PM -0800 Gareth Magennis wrote: > This makes more sense now. ** NB: Have a good look ( and a sniff ) of the output valves - one of them may have internal arcing damage inside the plastic base between pins 3 and 2. .... Phil |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 06 02:49PM -0800 Gareth Magennis wrote: > OK, so I am still of the opinion that nothing could have caused that diode > to fail other than the diode itself (?) ** There are a couple of scenarios* that allow the 4kV rating to be exceeded & if the spiking is at a high audio frequency, the diodes may dissipate enough heat during switch off to cause failure. Fact is, such diode DO sometimes fail and ought not cause collateral damage. " Like plugging a jack lead from speaker output back to an input causing massive NF oscillation with no speaker load. .... Phil |
| "Gareth Magennis" <soundserviceleeds@outlook.com>: Feb 06 10:53PM "Phil Allison" wrote in message news:db3291f3-2f40-4748-a323-2597ecc9a339@googlegroups.com... Gareth Magennis wrote: > This makes more sense now. ** NB: Have a good look ( and a sniff ) of the output valves - one of them may have internal arcing damage inside the plastic base between pins 3 and 2. .... Phil ************************************** And this could have shorted the parallel 4kV diode between 3 & 2? Or did the opposite occur? Gareth. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Feb 06 03:00PM -0800 Gareth Magennis wrote: > And this could have shorted the parallel 4kV diode between 3 & 2? > Or did the opposite occur? ** I only mentioned the possibility of valve arcing for completeness - cos it is another scenario that would cause similar damage. Fix you Engl, come back when you have. BTW When the Krauts stuff something up - they do a thorough job of it. .... Phil |
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