- SAMs or Forest Mims style analog ic design book - 11 Updates
- Is there any way to test a STK463 Audio Amp chip? - 3 Updates
| Sem Jansen <JansenSem999999@caiway.net>: Apr 25 11:39AM -0500 I am thinking about learning how to do analog ic design at home. I don't know what low cost software yet exists out there so this is an early question about how to learn more about how analog ic chips are designed. I went to the local college book store and bought a few electrical engineering textbooks on cmos ic design which I am reading and where I get the concept of plls, classes of amplifiers, bandpass filters, etc but none of those college textbooks are even close to the practical use hands on SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for all our hardware designs. Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book? |
| Sem Jansen <JansenSem999999@caiway.net>: Apr 25 11:40AM -0500 I am thinking about learning how to do analog ic design at home. I don't know what low cost software yet exists out there so this is an early question about how to learn more about how analog ic chips are designed. I went to the local college book store and bought a few electrical engineering textbooks on cmos ic design which I am reading and where I get the concept of plls, classes of amplifiers, bandpass filters, etc but none of those college textbooks are even close to the practical use hands on SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for all our hardware designs. Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book? |
| John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Apr 25 09:57AM -0700 On 2019/04/25 9:39 a.m., Sem Jansen wrote: > SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for > all our hardware designs. > Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book? Rummage around http://www.archive.org or http://www.bitsavers.com both have lots of archived manuals... John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. MOVED to #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3 (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
| Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Apr 25 12:39PM -0500 Sem Jansen wrote: > SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for > all our hardware designs. > Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book? Well, the problem with this is you need IC design software. There is a little bit of open-source software, mostly dating to the 1980's. Otherwise, you are stuck with Cadence, starting at $50K per seat, with options can run something like $250 K per YEAR. Then, if you just want to play around with design and simulation, that can be done, but otherwise you will need serious money to fab chips. MOSIS can get you into a multi-project wafer for about $10 - 15K for a small design, but you will have to jump through amazing hoops to get the fabs NDAs signed to their satisfaction. Last time our group did this, it took SIX MONTHS to get the legal documents worked out! And, you will HAVE to be running Cadence, I think most of the fab's design kits are now for Cadence only. Mentor still exests, but I think most designers have moved away from them. Jon |
| Sem Jansen <JansenSem999999@caiway.net>: Apr 25 01:04PM -0500 said: > Well, the problem with this is you need IC design software. There is a > little bit of open-source software, mostly dating to the 1980's. You are correct that the open source kind of software, with a book that goes with it is what I'm looking for, since I'm familiar with Composer schematic capture and HSpice simulation, and Virtuoso layout, all from the Edge and Opus days and then, more recently, Caliber for DRC & LVS. What I want, really, is just what anyone at home would want I would think which is to have free analog design schematic capture software which just does schematics and spice and then does basic layout of something no larger than about 300 devices and then a quick basic drc and lvs if that also exists. I'm not going to actually put the GDSII on a shuttle - I just want to do it for the fun and education and experience of designing a working small cmos PLL or OpAmp or something of that small size. I could write the book if it doesn't exist, so the software is mostly what I need, I guess, if the book with software doesn't exist. If the software is open source, then I could even include it maybe in a cdrom with the book if I write it. It's not hard to design an analog ic of a small size if you have those tools but they cost too much for a home user. I hadn't thought about the pdk problem until you mentioned it where MOSIS might be the right way to go if they'll let me use it for free. I wonder if MOSIS would want me to write a book for them for home users? |
| Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Apr 25 01:56PM -0500 On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 13:04:10 -0500, Sem Jansen wrote: > I'm not going to actually put the GDSII on a shuttle - I just want to do > it for the fun and education and experience of designing a working small > cmos PLL or OpAmp or something of that small size. Years ago, when I was getting into this to work with a MUCH more experienced guy who was actually going to be doing the IC design, and I was going to be doing the overall systems design, was to load Mentor through our university license, and work through a small tutorial. I think I built a 2-input CMOS gate in schematic, then implemented the several transistors and simulated it. It took me a couple days to get that far. But, once I had done that, I was a lot more able to understand the other guy's language. > tools but they cost too much for a home user. > I hadn't thought about the pdk problem until you mentioned it where > MOSIS might be the right way to go if they'll let me use it for free. If you are at a university, I think you could do this at no cost, through their university education program. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure NO WAY! > I wonder if MOSIS would want me to write a book for them for home users? NO! "Home users" just does not make any sense. MOSIS was set up to do two things. One, get special-purpose ICs fabricated at reasonable cost, and also to offer students the opportunity to have a thesis design fabricated so they could see where they goofed. MOSIS was originally funded largely by the Defense Department's DARPA program, but has largely been downgraded to have to scratch for $ to keep open. We get a few more chips made than the minimum, our chips are not really all that small, we use old, much cheaper processes, and our chip batch typically runs about $40K. Also, it typically now takes about six months to get our chips back from the fab. I just don't see why MOSIS would have any interest in people who can't afford to actually have the chips fabbed. Jon |
| Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com>: Apr 26 10:31AM +1000 On 26/04/2019 02:40, Sem Jansen wrote: > SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for > all our hardware designs. > Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book? There is quite a good book by Hans Camenzind, designer of the 555 timer. It is free and available for download: http://www.designinganalogchips.com/ Also there are some people starting to make chips at home these days: http://sam.zeloof.xyz/first-ic/ Maybe he will even fabricate your design! |
| C_Mechanic@f117.n2.z21.fsxnet (C_Mechanic): Apr 25 09:40PM +1200 * * On Thursday 25 Apr 2019 115 at 11:40 AM, * Sem Jansen said to All, * about SAMs or Forest Mims style analog ic design book ... * You might try mouser.com, they handle lots of analog devices :) and might have a book or two ... .- Keep the faith, --------------------------------------------------. | | | Ben aka cMech Web: http|ftp|binkp|telnet|ssh://cmech.dynip.com | | | | vvvvvv Email: fido4cmechSPAM(at)lusfiberBLOCK.net | | { O O } Home page: http://cmech.dynip.com/homepage/ | | __m___oo___m__ | `--| | | |-- -------------------------------------------------' ... If you see a snake, just kill it. Don't appoint a committee on snakes. |
| bitrex <user@example.net>: Apr 26 03:12AM -0400 On 4/25/19 12:40 PM, Sem Jansen wrote: > SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for > all our hardware designs. > Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book? <http://www.designinganalogchips.com/> |
| ggherold@gmail.com: Apr 26 07:50AM -0700 On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 12:39:26 PM UTC-4, Sem Jansen wrote: > SAMS and Forest Mims type which we all used to read a few decades ago for > all our hardware designs. > Do you know of a hands on technician type of analog ic design book? Do you have the Art of Electronics? There is 'Analysis and Design of Analog Integrated Circuits', by Gray and Meyer, but I would not call it 'hands on'. https://www.amazon.com/Analysis-Design-Analog-Integrated-Circuits/dp/0470245999 You can find the earlier editions for much less money. I have the 3rd ed. George H. |
| Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Apr 26 11:44AM -0400 > https://www.amazon.com/Analysis-Design-Analog-Integrated-Circuits/dp/0470245999 > You can find the earlier editions for much less money. I have the 3rd ed. > George H. Toumazou's book "Analog IC design: The current-mode approach" is an excellent read. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net https://hobbs-eo.com |
| Bill Martin <wwm@wwmartin.net>: Apr 25 11:09AM -0700 On 4/19/19 3:23 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote: > beautiful backlit dials. It was so sad. Marantz was then (partly) sold > to Philips. Philips actually improved things considerably and the SR > series was consigned to the dustbin of history. Where does the model 2230 fall in this lineup? I still have one of those, bought in about 1970, I think...still worked last time I powered it on...several years ago. |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Apr 25 12:31PM -0700 Let me set this to rest. That IC has + and - inputs. Treat it like an OP AMP. Know how to troubleshoot an OP AMP ? this is the same thing only bigger. It also might have booststrap caps and maybe some bypass, but even without them it should kinda work. |
| Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Apr 26 07:18AM +1000 On 26/04/2019 4:09 am, Bill Martin wrote: > Where does the model 2230 fall in this lineup? I still have one of > those, bought in about 1970, I think...still worked last time I powered > it on...several years ago. **The 2230 is old school Marantz. Very nicely laid out, easy to service and TO3 output devices. Should last a very, very long time. The smaller receivers of the time used plastic pack output devices and were significantly less reliable than those (like the 2230) that employed TO3 output devices. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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