| Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au>: Sep 24 08:56AM +1000 On 20/09/2019 1:52 pm, Phil Allison wrote: > Seems the two rectifier fets failed SHORT instantly and protected the rest of the circuitry - remember the power supply is NOT regulated, just a square wave inverter running at 100kHz. > I also feel that supplying an expensive amplifier to a buyer living in a 240V country with the AC inlet set to 120V and giving NO warning is criminal. BTW the amp was fitted with a regular IEC inlet which most of the world uses for 240VAC. > Any comments? **IcePower is cheap shit. A Rotel receiver recently landed on my bench with a seriously damaged IcePower module. I requested a service manual from the importer (International Dynamics). The manual arrived and it was very comprehensive, EXCEPT that the IcePower modules (an output stage and power supply) were listed as blocks, with no schematics available. Since the damage was fairly extensive (some burned resistors and other dead bits and bobs), I just ordered a new module. Since it had to come from B&O, my client had to wait. FWIW: I've also had an earlier IcePower based amplifier in for service. When I posed questions to the manufacturer about the excessive levels of high frequency crap emanating from the amplifier, I was politely (well, not so politely) told that I should not be testing the amplifier! IcePower is cheap shit. Cleverly designed, but cheap. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Sep 23 05:37PM -0700 Trevor Wilson wrote: ----------------------- > > I also feel that supplying an expensive amplifier to a buyer living in a 240V country with the AC inlet set to 120V and giving NO warning is criminal. BTW the amp was fitted with a regular IEC inlet which most of the world uses for 240VAC. > > Any comments? > **IcePower is cheap shit. ** TW seems to have missed the fact that the above is about some unknown agent selling bass amps to amateur musicians as "cardboard boxes" over the net. > was very comprehensive, EXCEPT that the IcePower modules (an output > stage and power supply) were listed as blocks, with no schematics > available. ** The modules are a mass of SMD - so essentially non repairable by audio techs with regular bench equipment only. > When I posed questions to the manufacturer about the excessive levels of > high frequency crap emanating from the amplifier, I was politely (well, > not so politely) told that I should not be testing the amplifier! ** The one in question showed 2V rms at 500kHz across the bridge mode outputs. Completely harmless, far as I can tell. > IcePower is cheap shit. Cleverly designed, but cheap. ** As usual, TW prefers his emotional opinions to fact so simply has no point to make. I have no issue with IcePower, the module suffered minimal damage from what has to be the worst imaginable accident. .... Phil |
| Jeff Urban <jurb6006@gmail.com>: Sep 23 07:23PM -0700 >** The one in question showed 2V rms at 500kHz across the bridge >mode outputs. > Completely harmless, far as I can te Not if you got piezo tweeter, and some electrostatics. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Sep 23 07:31PM -0700 Jeff Urban wrote: ----------------- > >** The one in question showed 2V rms at 500kHz across the bridge >mode outputs. > > Completely harmless, far as I can te > Not if you got piezo tweeter, and some electrostatics. ** Mere supposition, not one tiny bit fact. The impedance of speakers at 500kHz is not a published spec, nor one tested by reviewers. So Jeff must be getting his info from where ? His arse maybe ? Some folk have a lot of data stored in there. .... Phil |
| Jeff Urban <jurb6006@gmail.com>: Sep 23 10:00PM -0700 >** Mere supposition, not one tiny bit fact. No, here's a fact, THEY ARE CAPACITIVE. I have already had problems due to tape bias on those. Wasn't filtered out well enough. Couldn't hear the bias but you could definitely hear the hum. Fact is any HF leakage out that class D amp will see a near dead short on the load if it is piezo. The idea was efficiency. Don't got it like that. Sorry to intrude on your vision of perfection. |
| Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Sep 24 03:31PM +1000 On 24/9/19 3:00 pm, Jeff Urban wrote: >> ** Mere supposition, not one tiny bit fact. > No, here's a fact, THEY ARE CAPACITIVE. Piezo devices have all kinds of wacky high-Q resonances that push the impedance all around the place. Overall capacitive, but you should stick it on a VNA to learn the truth. Or just chuck them in the bin and replace them with something more recent than the 1980s. Piezo's make my ears hurt. Clifford Heath. |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Sep 23 11:05PM -0700 Jeff Urban is being Silly wrote: > >** Mere supposition, not one tiny bit fact. > No, here's a fact, THEY ARE CAPACITIVE. ** So is nearly everything... > I have already had problems due to tape bias on those. ** Tape bias is not 500kHz, more like 50kHz. You were not using an IcePower module. > Fact is any HF leakage out that class D amp will see a near dead > short on the load if it is piezo. ** Horse manure. Firstly, the impedance of a twin lead speaker cable at 500kHz is 20 ohms or more - in series with the load. Secondly, nearly all piezo tweeters have an inbuilt 30ohm series resistor or a small lamp to protect them. Thirdly, a class D amp already has a large value cap DIRECTLY across the output to act as a filter. > Sorry to intrude on your vision of perfection. ** Sorry to burst your bubble pal. I see you make no more mention of electrostats? I used to own Quad ELS and know lots about them plus most others. Wanna continue displaying you ignorance? .... Phil |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Sep 23 11:11PM -0700 Clifford Heath wrote: --------------------- > Piezo devices have all kinds of wacky high-Q resonances that push the > impedance all around the place. Overall capacitive, but you should stick > it on a VNA to learn the truth. ** Some early versions were pretty much a 100 or 220nF cap. Speaker lead inductance, plus the usual series inductors built into linear amps, rendered them harmless. In any case, Class D amps are perfectly OK with capacitive loads. Despite what some NG Henny Penny is claiming .... .... Phil |
| Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Sep 24 10:28AM +1000 Does anyone recognise this energy monitoring chip? The marking I see is "1852AVH": <https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzf0km6m85c0a1s/SmartPlugEnergyChip2.jpg> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/46sl5cxqapm9v4r/SmartPlugEnergyChip3.jpg> It's in an Aldi (Medion brand) WiFi smart plug. Clifford Heath. |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Sep 23 06:21PM -0700 On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:28:09 +1000, Clifford Heath >"1852AVH": ><https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzf0km6m85c0a1s/SmartPlugEnergyChip2.jpg> ><https://www.dropbox.com/s/46sl5cxqapm9v4r/SmartPlugEnergyChip3.jpg> The "8" is really a "B". Try 1B52AVH instead. Some image enhancement: <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/1B52AVH.jpg> Unfortunatly, I couldn't find anything with that part number using Google search. >It's in an Aldi (Medion brand) WiFi smart plug. Model number? Photo? Any patent numbers in the docs? I couldn't find the logo: <https://www.elnec.com/en/support/ic-logos/?method=logo> <http://www.siliconinvestigations.com/Logos/logos.htm> <http://www.ecadata.de/herst/myshowlogo.php?F_SPRACHE=2> I don't know if this is the same product, but it's easy enough to try: "Kankun Runs on OpenWrt firmware" <http://www.htlinux.com/kankun-runs-on-openwrt-firmware/> -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Sep 24 12:43PM +1000 On 24/9/19 11:21 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote: >> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzf0km6m85c0a1s/SmartPlugEnergyChip2.jpg> >> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/46sl5cxqapm9v4r/SmartPlugEnergyChip3.jpg> > The "8" is really a "B". Try 1B52AVH instead. I tried that too, but (see 2nd image) I'm pretty sure it's an "8". Anyhow more searching and it looks like someone has figured it out and ported Tasmota to it, and they call it a BL0937 (first line of text, not second). Still can't find a data sheet but there's a driver here. Same code for HJL-01 which looks a lot like an HLW8012 supposedly: <https://github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota/blob/development/sonoff/xnrg_01_hlw8012.ino> >> It's in an Aldi (Medion brand) WiFi smart plug. > Model number? Photo? Any patent numbers in the docs? "Medion LIFE+ Smart Plug", S85225, model number MD 93225. It says it's compatible with Alexa and Google Home. Similar is available here: <https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Smart-Plug-S85225-Compatible-with-Amazon-Alexa-Medion-Wifi-Life-Google-Home-/401785952652> > I couldn't find the logo: Me either :(. > <https://www.elnec.com/en/support/ic-logos/?method=logo> > <http://www.siliconinvestigations.com/Logos/logos.htm> > <http://www.ecadata.de/herst/myshowlogo.php?F_SPRACHE=2> Thanks, Clifford Heath. |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Sep 23 09:54PM -0700 On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 12:43:11 +1000, Clifford Heath >>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/46sl5cxqapm9v4r/SmartPlugEnergyChip3.jpg> >> The "8" is really a "B". Try 1B52AVH instead. >I tried that too, but (see 2nd image) I'm pretty sure it's an "8". I beg to differ. Take another look at my image at: <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/1B52AVH.jpg> Notice that the "B" in "BL" on the first line is exactly the same as the "B" on the 2nd line. >Anyhow more searching and it looks like someone has figured it out and >ported Tasmota to it, and they call it a BL0937 (first line of text, not >second). Oops. I didn't think of that. >Still can't find a data sheet but there's a driver here. Same >code for HJL-01 which looks a lot like an HLW8012 supposedly: ><https://github.com/arendst/Sonoff-Tasmota/blob/development/sonoff/xnrg_01_hlw8012.ino> I don't think so. Looking at the circuitry around the chip, it looks like some kind of analog device, not a energy monitor, which usually has an SPI bus and talks digital. Googling for BL0937, I find an analog current regulator: <https://lcsc.com/product-detail/PMIC-Current-Regulation_BL0937_C94616.html> If you zoom into the photo on the above page, it looks exactly like your two photos. More: <https://www.google.com/search?q=BL0937&tbm=isch> ><https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Smart-Plug-S85225-Compatible-with-Amazon-Alexa-Medion-Wifi-Life-Google-Home-/401785952652> >> I couldn't find the logo: >Me either :(. Foundit. It's Shanghai Belling Co., Ltd., formerly known as Shanghai Belling Microelectronics Manufacturing Co., Ltd: <https://lcsc.com/brand-detail/158.html> Notice the logo at: <https://assets.lcsc.com/images/manufacturer/158.jpg> -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Sep 24 03:26PM +1000 On 24/9/19 2:54 pm, Jeff Liebermann wrote: >> ported Tasmota to it, and they call it a BL0937 (first line of text, not >> second). > Oops. I didn't think of that. Well, for some reason the data sheet doesn't come up in Google, but here it is: <https://github.com/xoseperez/espurna/files/1861834/BL0937_Datasheet_V1.01.pdf.zip> or from the manufactorer's site: <http://www.belling.com.cn/en/product_info.html?id=138> A differential input (across a 0.001R resistor), a voltage input, both connected to ADCs and thence to voltage-to-frequency converters. There are two frequency outputs, and a selector pin for voltage or current on one of them. The other frequency indicates power; presumably closer to instantaneous power whereas the I and V can't be read simultaneously. That matches the pinout of the HLW8012 also, but the select polarity is reversed or some such nonsense; the driver writer has worked it out anyhow, see the thread at <https://github.com/xoseperez/espurna/issues/737>. > <https://lcsc.com/product-detail/PMIC-Current-Regulation_BL0937_C94616.html> > If you zoom into the photo on the above page, it looks exactly like > your two photos. Nevertheless that's not it. > <https://lcsc.com/brand-detail/158.html> > Notice the logo at: > <https://assets.lcsc.com/images/manufacturer/158.jpg> Thank you. Clifford Heath. |
| pcshay3320@gmail.com: Sep 23 10:17PM -0700 > NOTE : "THIS SERVICE IS NOT AVAILABLE FOR : CHINA, INDIA, RUSSIA, LEBANON, PAKISTAN, IRAQ, IRAN, PHILIPPINES, NORTH KOREA, NEPAL, BANGLADESH, SRI LANKA, MALDIVES, BHUTAN & COLOMBIA". > If your wanted solutions manual and/or test bank is not in this list, just ans me if is available (it is only a partial list). Then if you need solutions manual and/or test bank only contact me by email. > I do not review the forums, just send me an email. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ When will you dumbasses LEARN ? the OP DOES NOT CHECK THE FORUMS (MEANING THIS GROUP FOR ONE EXAMPLE) So posting things like 'please send me the file' or 'i want Solution Manual Electronic Principles' or some suchlike is retarded! YOU HAVE TO: EMAIL HIM, for Heaven's sake!! HE SAID: I do not review the forums, just send me an email. (gawd! READ ABOVE!) LEARN, dumbasses, LEARN !! |
| Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net>: Sep 23 01:55PM -0400 You know, everytime I post here I am met with sarcasm and other negative commentary. I asked a simple question and only two people answered, appropriately. You might be surprised what degrees (yes, degrees) I have, but none in electrical engineering. I did have an electric circuits course as part of my major, but that was over 30 years ago and I forgot some things. I never have liked working with AC and maybe, if you do in fact want to poke fun at my questions as some obviously can't seem to resist for some odd reason, then credit my lack of AC knowledge as the reason. I much prefer DC, but unfortunately these lamps need AC circuitry. So.... that being said.... I won't bother this patronizing, sarcastic group anymore. I must say I have been using Usenet in various capacities for over 20 years and I have never been meet with conduct like I'm experiencing here. Some of you must be college professors because you are a lot like some of the aholes I had. I bid you farewell. My hat is off to you. Whatever floats your boat, but know this: I won't respond nor post any further commentary in this pathetic group. Goodbye. |
| Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net>: Sep 23 01:57PM -0400 On 9/22/19 11:05 PM, Phil Allison wrote: > Current draw that is non-sine wave or not in phase with the voltage is always higher than when it is. > ..... Phil Ok, I can accept that answer and will try and learn more. |
| Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net>: Sep 23 01:57PM -0400 >> Thank you in advance. > higher power discharge lamps do tend to be more efficient, but you're stuck with a poor efficiency lamp. Unless you change the lamp for something compatible & a lot more modern. > NT Thank you! |
| Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net>: Sep 23 02:00PM -0400 On 9/23/19 1:55 PM, Larz wrote: > I bid you farewell. My hat is off to you. Whatever floats your boat, > but know this: I won't respond nor post any further commentary in this > pathetic group. Goodbye. I take some of this back: I will, in the future, respond to those who responded to me appropriately but as for the rest, you are being filtered. I won't let the negativity and sarcasm of a few select ruin it for those who did answer or try to answer appropriately. |
| Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Sep 23 01:47PM -0500 On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 14:30:42 -0400, Larz wrote: > read 2.3 A. Unfortunately, there is no PFC with this yard light, only > the bulb and ballast, so I don't think anything can be done. > However.... Without a Wattmeter, you have no idea what the actual power draw is. Some of that 2.3 A is reactive current, at 90 degrees to the voltage, and you are not billed for that. Measuring the current and voltage separately, you only get the VA (volts * amps) which is NOT the power in Watts. Jon |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Sep 23 03:11PM -0400 In article <f8ydnTnWzv3UjhTAnZ2dnUU7-aednZ2d@giganews.com>, elson@pico- systems.com says... > you are not billed for that. Measuring the current and voltage > separately, you only get the VA (volts * amps) which is NOT the power in > Watts I never could get it in my head about AC power either. I know how volts or amps can lead if there is any reactance in the circuit. I have an inline power meter that shows voltage, current, and power (watts )_ A heater element will show about the same watts as the voltage times the courrent. A load with a large transformer in it will show a much differant V times A than the watt meter. I understand it doing that, but not how the power company realy charges for the power. |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Sep 23 02:18PM -0500 On 9/22/2019 2:02 PM, Larz wrote: > Great refresher! So the capacitor in the mercury vapor circuit should > reduce the current if matched correctly. I wonder why there is no such > capacitor in my 125 W mercury vapor yard light? Kind of interesting, this website shows an electric motor has a PF of 0.15 with no-load, and 0.7 to 0.85 with a load. > https://www.electricalengineeringtoolbox.com/2016/12/typical-power-factors-for-common.html Mikek |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Sep 23 08:11PM -0700 amdx dickhead wrote: -------------------- > Kind of interesting, this website shows an electric motor has a PF of > 0.15 with no-load, and 0.7 to 0.85 with a load. https://www.electricalengineeringtoolbox.com/2016/12/typical-power-factors-for-common.html --------------------------------------------------- ** Fraid the info is so minimal, it's highly misleading. Motors used in domestic appliances like washers and fridges operate on full or near full load at all times - so have good PFs. What they might do off load is not important, as it is very rare. In any case, the current draw and power consumed off load is much lower. .... Phil |
| Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net>: Sep 23 11:12PM -0400 On 9/23/19 2:47 PM, Jon Elson wrote: > separately, you only get the VA (volts * amps) which is NOT the power in > Watts. > Jon Wow, I didn't know this or had forgotten. I am fully used to working with DC, seldom AC I see digital plug in wattmeters on Amazon in the $10-15. Would something like those be satisfactory? I really would like to find out the true wattage. |
| Larz <dispcal667@nospam.net>: Sep 23 11:17PM -0400 On 9/23/19 3:11 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote: > courrent. A load with a large transformer in it will show a much > differant V times A than the watt meter. I understand it doing that, > but not how the power company realy charges for the power. I did all of these AC calculations, but it was at least 20 years ago. I've mainly worked with DC since that time & I've always found DC a lot simpler. Speaking of which, I understand there's actually a way to run these MV bulbs from DC. I wonder if it's like is done with certain x-ray tubes and just using a diode to convert to DC, or more elaborate? |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Sep 23 08:35PM -0700 Ralph Mowery wrote: ----------------------- > I understand it doing that, > but not how the power company realy charges for the power. ** They use *wattmeters* that accumulate so becoming "Watt-hour" meters. Customers get charged for the actual energy used, not merely current over time. The ones where I live look much like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilowatt_hour#/media/File:Hydro_quebec_meter.JPG The spinning disk will not move unless both current and voltage of the same polarity exist at the same time. .... Phil |
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