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"Ron D." <ron.dozier@gmail.com>: Jun 17 09:54AM -0700 I have the other problem. The washer just chews up the lint and spits it out. that goes down the drain via a 2-tub laundry sink and about 20' of 60 year old galvanized pipe burried under the cement.   The lint catches about 20' out. I got tired of that non-sense.   Especially when I spent a lot of time using the home depot auger in the wrong direction. Mine was clockwise in, theirs was CCW in.   I made a very nice sock filter using mostly stock parts. Once I had proof of concept, I borrowed a lathe and added some new parts and made the filter super easy to empty.   Expensive, simple and stuff had to come from 3 different suppliers.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jun 17 10:14AM -0700 As I keep repeating, this site is dedicated to finding out how to do things the hardest possible way, seeking the least satisfactory results, taking the most possible time:   https://linttrapper.com/product/lint-trapper/   And, if that is too much:   https://www.amazon.com/Peerless-Laundry-Lint-Trap-2-Pack/dp/B00ONUODEC Sadly, this one requires siccors....   And, if you are buying for the ages:   https://www.amazon.com/Wobe-Washing-Machine-Laundry-Rustproof/dp/B07BBLX17Q     Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: Jun 17 12:07PM -0700 > Lint traps   I didn't know they made those.   In 12 years doing washes for a family of four we've never had the washer drain plug up though. Perhaps because it's one of those old Maytags that use a lot of water it dilutes the lint enough to flow through.

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jun 17 02:09PM -0500 > out how to do things the hardest possible way, seeking > the least satisfactory results, taking the most possible > time:   And....Seeing how much of somebody else's time you can waste because you won't spend a few minutes of your own time to look something up.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 18 03:51AM > It is a matter of choices made. But it does gripe me when individuals > blame the object rather than the caretaker of that object for its > failure after years of negligence.   I live in Chicago. We have too much fresh water (yeah, this is really a problem, lake michigan has record high water levels and the bike paths is getting splashed with water). I'm going to run the biggest, oldest most water using washing machine I can get my hands on. They clean better too, there's more space in the drum, you don't get everything all knotted up trying to save the last drops of the cheapest more infinite resource we have in the great lakes. LG appliances will be long shut down, sold, divested or whatever is hot long before the parts supply for even a kenmore washer dries up.   None of those asian appliances brands are meant to be serviced. They are meant to be thrown away, like a cell phone.

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 18 03:56AM >> Lint traps   > I didn't know they made those.   > In 12 years doing washes for a family of four we've never had the washer drain plug up though. Perhaps because it's one of those old Maytags that use a lot of water it dilutes the lint enough to flow through.   Bet it leaves you with nice clean clothes too. Those eco-nonsense side loaders taht use 3 table spoons of water leave so much crud that what's left instantly rots, stinking the machine up.   That's not a problem with a properly designed top loaded that doesn't need goofy bubble free detergent and actually washes the soil from the laundry way, instead of just flopping the clothing around in it for a while.

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jun 18 04:36AM -0700 Do you not comprehend that all you are doing is relocating that water from the fresh water system to the waste-water system? And if you are on municipal water and municipal sewer, you are paying handsomely for that privilege.   I expect that you still use high-phosphate detergent as well. It *does* get things nice and clean, takes lots of water to do it, but nice and clean!   (Not to mention algae blooms. https://www.greatlakesnow.org/algal-blooms/)   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Tim R <timothy42b@aol.com>: Jun 18 06:51AM -0700 > I expect that you still use high-phosphate detergent as well. It *does* get things nice and clean, takes lots of water to do it, but nice and clean! > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   Actually if you use lots of water you need hardly any soap. Perhaps none.

Amanda Riphnykhazova <licensedtoquill@gmail.com>: Jun 18 06:59AM -0700 This is OT but the lint problem is not on the washer side, the filter works fine or the drain pipes seem to be able to handle it.   The lint problem is on the dryer side, which is where lint builds up in every available physical space or crevasse in the machine. Obviously dryer lint doesn't build up in the drain line area!

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jun 18 07:50AM -0700 We keep a very vintage electric Maytag at the summer house. I recently had occasion to replace the motor and belt - and you are right - the lint removed from inside the machine was enough to fill a reasonably sized pillow. At home, we have a gas-fired LG, after 12 years, I did the rollers (front and back) belt and tension roller. Far less lint than the Maytag, but more concentrated anywhere there was a bend or corner in the airway. Overall, the timing was about the same as I replaced the rollers in the Maytag about 10 years ago, but the Maytag sees about 15% of the use of the LG.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Jun 18 07:55AM -0700 Not to be snarky, but you do not wallow much in grease, do you? No detergent under those conditions just spreads a very fine coating of grease on everything. True, though, there *is* less on the clothes thereby.   I thought we had gotten away from pounding clothes with rocks streamside....   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Jun 18 10:12AM -0500 > I thought we had gotten away from pounding clothes with rocks streamside....   Arthur Clarke was right. "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."   Apparently, this includes washing machines for some folks.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jun 17 04:50PM -0700 On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 06:55:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader   >Lol, I've wondered about the "sensor" in these things. I know can't be >related to any sort of device that measures anything. Must be marketing >speak or a weirdly translated word.   It's a humidity sensor. When whatever you're cooking gets hot enough to vaporize water, the "sensor" detects the water vapor and shuts off the oven, usually after a short delay. The alleged advantage is that you don't need to enter the cooking time or power level, but you do need to enter the type of food: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__tYa70kRHY> I've only used the sensor feature a few times. No opinion on whether it's useful, or yet another useless feature.   >#2s off the list, which is really easy for for a traditional half-doubler >microwave oven. They have no way to test the HV section safely. Microwaves >are truly the most dangerous electronic appliances to play with.   If you don't know what you're doing, don't have sufficient experience, can't follow advice, and are afraid of high voltage, perhaps you really shouldn't be fixing microwave ovens?   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 18 04:11AM > measurement and really did/does work. I just had a 16~17 year old GE > over-the-range type that went out that used sensor cooking and now using a > $99 counter top model (1250W Magic Chef) that doesn't, I miss it.   Say there is a moisture detector in ther sniffing the air being pulled from the cavity. It doesn't prevent a frozen pot pie from burning, it doesn't prevent anything from overcooking. It doesn't seem to know when a frozen sausage is transitioning from thawing to outright cooking. I really have no idea what it's doing. It's too mysterious to take seriously. Really old microwaves sometimes had the temperature probe- that made sense, assuming you were into cooking a turkey in the microwave oven for 30 minutes.   Say it's real. Do the just modulate the cooing duty cycle? It doesn't seem to speed up or slow anything down, ot at least I've not found a mode that isn's still time based.   What were the delicious things you could pull off with the sensor as sous chef that just don't work with the magic chef?   > and even the "GE brings great things to life" scrolls on the display.   > Everywhere I checked for parts (figured a new/used control panel) ended up > the same "Not in stock - No Longer Available".   Any parted out ones on ebay? No real need for "new" as long as it works.   > Disappointing.   I was approached with a friend asking how to fix their above range microwave oven too. I want to help, but until they can read me the model # off the door, I can't do much with suggestions on what the next move is.

Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com>: Jun 18 02:45PM +1000 On 18/06/2020 09:50, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 06:55:26 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader > <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote: [...]   > If you don't know what you're doing, don't have sufficient experience, > can't follow advice, and are afraid of high voltage, perhaps you > really shouldn't be fixing microwave ovens?   It is worthwhile pointing out, at every opportunity, that the electric shock hazard of working on microwave ovens is extreme, and that rigourous precautions are necessary. No other appliance that I can think of has the combination of high enough voltage to shock severely through clothing and dry skin, enough current to certainly kill someone, yet some current limiting and isolation from the mains such that a RCD or circuit breaker will not trip to save you.

gregz <zekor@comcast.net>: Jun 18 06:08AM > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__tYa70kRHY> > I've only used the sensor feature a few times. No opinion on whether > it's useful, or yet another useless feature.   I used it couple times years ago. It may also function when using slower cooking mode, not sure. My display gets dimmer and foggy but keeps on working.   Greg

bje@ripco.com: Jun 18 12:26PM > Really old microwaves sometimes had the temperature probe- that made > sense, assuming you were into cooking a turkey in the microwave oven for > 30 minutes.   I had one of those in the shop at Clybourn, the probe had a 1/4" jack which plugged into the interior wall. Was made by Sharp. Never used the probe though.   Only reason I mention it is because I bought that from a store that only sold microwave ovens. Nothing else, just microwave ovens and cookware for microwaves. Guess those died out with laserdisc stores.   > isn's still time based.   > What were the delicious things you could pull off with the sensor as sous > chef that just don't work with the magic chef?   Well, I only used it for reheating leftovers. Things like yesterdays mashed potatoes or vegs (corn, peas or string beans) would come out evenly cooked (hot all the way through) and not over cooked. When I tried the mashed in the Magic Chef, I figured 2 minutes at full power would be enough being it only takes 3 minutes to cook from the fridge but no, was cold in the middle.   I'm not saying the reheat mode with moisture detection is an end-all solution but it worked correctly most of the time. Several times I put something in there and it just didn't work, after 3 minutes or so it would beep with "Sensor failure" on the display panel. Then it did a 30 second countdown and end.   Even things like a leftover half corned beef sandwich came out good.   The sensor/reheat function just eliminated the guess work for time and duty cycle (power level). It just gets you into the ballpark.   > Any parted out ones on ebay? No real need for "new" as long as it works.   I didn't see anything but since I'd starve around here with a microwave I didn't put a lot of effort in besides the appliance parts places on the web. Home Depot (cash and carry, no delivery schedule to mess with) basically had only 3 in stock, 2 of the Magic Chef and one Panasonic for double the price. Since I plan on replacing the overhead one at some point soon, I just didn't see a reason to spend the money on the Panasonic (although it did have a sensor).   > I was approached with a friend asking how to fix their above range > microwave oven too. I want to help, but until they can read me the model # > off the door, I can't do much with suggestions on what the next move is.   If you are bored mine is a JVM1653WH01 but I don't think it's wise to put that much money into a 16 year old unit. The control board for a similar vintage dishwasher that went out a couple years ago was fetching $150 and up, used. Being I replaced the whole thing with a brand new one for a little over $300 (and no interest for 12 months), whats the point.   One weird thing about that microwave which I mentioned once on chi.general, when you set the time, the first entry it wants is the month, day and year.   Now being there is no advanced timer like putting in a potato and telling it to cook it this saturday at 4pm (or a year from this saturday), you figure the mm/dd/yy would be for the daylight savings switch.   But no, even before they changed the dates for dst/std, it never would adjust the time by itself. Weird.   -bruce bje@ripco.com

Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Jun 18 11:22PM +1000 On 18/6/20 9:50 am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:   > It's a humidity sensor. When whatever you're cooking gets hot enough > to vaporize water, the "sensor" detects the water vapor and shuts off > the oven, usually after a short delay.   The vapor pressure of water rises very rapidly above 60 degrees C. So presence of vapor is a good indicator of the outside temperature of your food, even before the water starts to boil.   CH

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 17 10:12PM >> Power factor correction might lower your power consumption,   > ** Oops, no it don't.   > It simply lowers you RMS current draw.   Can you explain I^2 R for me ?

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jun 17 05:09PM -0700 Tim R wrote:   ============= > I checked some household appliances (lamps, tv, laptops) with one of those Kill-a-Watt meters some time back.   > They register both watts and power factor. Power factor was often very low, in the .6 range. CFLs and LEDs were both very low.   ** Most electroinc device have PFs in the 0.5 to 0.6 range - normal is not "very low". Very low is like 0.1.     > Does that affect the accuracy of the watt reading?   ** Nope.   The PF of domestic electrical / electronics including lamps is irrelevant.   It may become relevant in commercial use, when large number of items are used at the same time - like hundreds of CFLs in an office building.   Then it limits just how many lamps can be on the same circuit.   .... Phil     ..... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jun 17 05:11PM -0700 Cydrome Leader wrote:   -----------------------   > > It simply lowers you RMS current draw.   > Can you explain I^2 R for me ?   ** That must seem like a very clever Q to you.   But I am not biting.     ..... Phil

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com>: Jun 18 03:43AM > They register both watts and power factor. Power factor was often very > low, in the .6 range. CFLs and LEDs were both very low.   > Does that affect the accuracy of the watt reading?   possibly- I've not run noises tests on a kill-a-watt meter to see how easily they are confused. I did just get a Vector Viz digital wattmeter, circa 1986 and even a load like an electronic ballast shop light confuses its voltage readings. It might need to be serviced though.   > If I understand correctly, I pay for actual watts, but wire capacity has > to include the extra. Presumably code requires sufficient headroom.   The general rule in the US is a circuuit cannot have a steady load of to more than 80% of the rating. That is a 15 amp circuit off your breaker should not run anything that needs more than 12 amps continious. > Kill-a-Watt meters are designed badly, unless they've improved them > recently. With bifocals you can only read them in one orientation and > often that is not how you plug them in.   They're that terrible, contrast does drop if you use them somewhere hot though.

Nife Sima <gorplop@sdf.org>: Jun 18 12:52PM +0200 > You responded to a 22 year old post.   > Peter Wieck > Melrose Park, PA   Not to mention the Rainbow Boxes had nothing to do with power meters.

Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com>: Jun 18 01:36PM +0100 I remember that very strong magnets were once supposed to slow meters down so I borrowed a very strong ceramic magnet from work to try. I put it next to the meter and it didn't have any visible effect at all. Steve   -- http://www.npsnn.com

jjhudak4@gmail.com: Jun 17 03:23PM -0700 On Tuesday, June 16, 2020 at 1:23:57 PM UTC-4, John Keiser wrote: > > (on the basis of clever design) was the Phantastron. Really slick.   > Is this what you want?   > http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=9A1210D3901B37ED01DC4F2246A395D0   would love to find a pdf of the 2nd ed. Thanks John

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